Gameplay Mechanics

General Discussion Started Last reply 21 posts
Hi I'm only a very new player here, but these four things have been frustrating me to no end.

Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).

Rather than taking away hard earned experience which makes no sense, why not have an experience debt system, where when you die, you have a certain % of experience where you only gain half the normal amount. Once that debt is repayed, you go back to earning the normal experience amount. I realise a lot of bots and some real players use this method on purpose to delevel, but to fix that problem (if it is one), why not give players the ability to stop exp gain from combat exp so they can stay at a level they like.

Or why not have some sort of res sickness (a la EQ2) or Death Penalty (a la Guild Wars)? They are good systems that work and don't frustrate people. In fact most times I die, I log off for a few hours due to being thoroughly annoyed by the system in place. It's really a kick in the teeth, especially since its so hard to get a team in these area's.

Also, there doesnt seem to be a way to tell what level someone is, or what armour they are wearing. Maybe I just don't know how to, but a few other players I spoke to said they didn't know either. I imagine that if you can't yet, there is likely a very good reason. Please let me know. It just seems a little silly not to be able to tell these things, and to have to guess or ask a player there level. It seems a lot of people are exploiting this too when it comes to PKing.

Thirdly, what is with the agro on mobs? I was getting smacked hard by a Balor Orc Leader when soloing and tried to flee from him. My WindWalker had run out, so we were even in speed. I was running away for about 2 minutes before I tried to make a stand and died. I'd lead him so very far from his spawn point too.

Was this a freak accident or is this whats its supposed to be like? If it's the norm, this needs to be fixed. Or at least in the newbie area's where people can't run away as easily. I just cant see the logic in a mob chasing and chasing a player down until they die.

And lastly, travel in this game apparently gets better when you get mounts (at whatever distance level that is), but in the mean time its really annoying when you need to get to Temple of Dark Arts for instance. It's a long way on foot even with WindWalk, and if you happen to die, you have to start all the way back at your start town, along with the 7-9% experience you lost. This is in no way fun for a new player.

From the outside all it says to me is timesink. I realise there are gatekeepers and such, but that in turn requires vast (at least to me) amounts of money. Another thing that can put off new players. Other games I've played removed the pointlessness of such things like in GW where you can just map travel to a town you've already been too. Or the Griffon Towers of EQ2.

I know it seems like I'm complaining a lot, but this game has a lot going for it that other games don't have as well. The Olympiad, Castles, Manor System, lots of depth etc. It also has a very awesome interface. But in the day to day, it becomes hard to see how much good a game is when faced with such adverse conditions.

Also, please don't just tell me to leave and go play other games. I chose this game because I wanted to give it a fair shot and have heard a lot of good about it. I don't mean to sound negative so please don't flame me. If they are reasons for how things are, please let me know, as I am only new and won't know all the facts.

Good luck and happy adventuring everyone. :p

Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).


So that's 7-9 mobs to get your EXP back. Wait 'til you get a few levels under your belt. 7% (or whatever it is) at level 10 is *nothing*.

Hi I'm only a very new player here, but these four things have been frustrating me to no end.

Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).



L10 and your complaining about dying? OOOOOhhhhh-Boy are you in for a rude awakening. XP at your level is *incredibly* easy to come by. But talking about XP at that level or even at L79 simply avoids the real problem.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE DYING OFTEN ANYWAY.

If you are dying a lot, then the game is trying to tell you that you are doing something wrong! You are trying to kill mobs that are too strong for you, your equipment is too weak for the mobs you are fighting, or you need some help killing those mobs. Always carry some potions and other things to quaff if your in danger. If your already using them and you still insist on walking into the meat grinder willingly....your going to die, no exceptions.

And yes Virginia, Lineage II *does* have a death penalty. You don't get it every time, but if you die there is a chance to recieve a 'permanent' debuff that cumulatively hinders your stats. (Each death can raise the level of the debuff by 1, and you can remove the debuff 1 level at a time with scrolls sold in town magic shops.)

I strongly suggest taking a bit more time to read the guides and ask for help on determining what mobs and locations you should be grinding in....heading right for Elven Ruins with a L4 character and your starting gear is liking handing out Menu's to the mobs in there. (Know what the 'color' of a mob means versus your level for starters at least!)



Also, there doesnt seem to be a way to tell what level someone is, or what armour they are wearing. Maybe I just don't know how to, but a few other players I spoke to said they didn't know either. I imagine that if you can't yet, there is likely a very good reason. Please let me know. It just seems a little silly not to be able to tell these things, and to have to guess or ask a player there level. It seems a lot of people are exploiting this too when it comes to PKing.



Two parts here. 1)The variety of gears gets smaller not larger as your level goes up. It gets fairly easy to recognize most armors/weapons as you play the game. Most chars seem to have a 'cookie cutter' setup anyway so it is even more obvious. The more time you spend in game the easier it gets....if your still stumped, just search around the forums there are at least 2 sites that allow you to see what each armor looks like on every race/sex combo. (Weapons are the same no matter what char uses them, just the size shrinks or grows a bit to match.)

And 2nd, when it comes to PKing, there is nothing to stop a L80 char from putting on the lowest Noobie equipment and heading out to run rampant. His level/skills alone will do his dirty work. If he's wearing more than some cheap junk, all it does it tell you what his minimum level *might* be. (Hint: Most perma-reds are not much more than 40 at best.) Beyond that, 'greifers' aren't all that common. Learn where they tend to pop up and just be aware if your in that area or go elsewhere...post 40 the only reds you should have to worry about are clan war chars.



Thirdly, what is with the agro on mobs? I was getting smacked hard by a Balor Orc Leader when soloing and tried to flee from him. My WindWalker had run out, so we were even in speed. I was running away for about 2 minutes before I tried to make a stand and died. I'd lead him so very far from his spawn point too.

Was this a freak accident or is this whats its supposed to be like? If it's the norm, this needs to be fixed. Or at least in the newbie area's where people can't run away as easily. I just cant see the logic in a mob chasing and chasing a player down until they die.



A mobs aggro range is a bit odd to quantify. Basically though, each mobs has a set number of locations that it can spawn from within an area, and it's defined area is also related to a named 'zone'. Mobs will only respawn within their 'area' but will chase you all the way out of their 'zone' OR until a certain amount of time expires. (This last can take quite awhile.)

For example, "Orc Barracks" is a 'Zone'. Within the Orc Barracks are seperate 'areas', mostly recognizable by the physical camps that dot the area. If you grab aggro from mob in one area, it will continue to chase you for a long time...or until you exit the 'Zone', at which point it will give up sooner. (Not immediately though!) After which time it will return to it's 'zone' and then eventually, it's area. Sometime you can drag a mob so far from its area that it can't find it's way back and just stops in the closest 'area' in its zone. Mobs that are dragged out of their zone entirely usually make their way back before to long. The ones in the zone but not their area take a bit longer.

How far you get chased through all this is determined by how much hate you generate from the mob. As soon as you start running this 'hate' starts to tick down. If the mob can hit you or if you hit the mob back this hate rises again. Thus if the mob runs faster than you it is harder to lose it versus if you are able to outrun it. Distance = faster hate reduction. You will note that mobs will eventually 'slow down' if you keep running away. This means that they are almost out of aggro. Go just a bit farther and they will forget about you, stop and they might just get close enough to start all over again.



And lastly, travel in this game apparently gets better when you get mounts (at whatever distance level that is), but in the mean time its really annoying when you need to get to Temple of Dark Arts for instance. It's a long way on foot even with WindWalk, and if you happen to die, you have to start all the way back at your start town, along with the 7-9% experience you lost. This is in no way fun for a new player.

From the outside all it says to me is timesink. I realise there are gatekeepers and such, but that in turn requires vast (at least to me) amounts of money. Another thing that can put off new players. Other games I've played removed the pointlessness of such things like in GW where you can just map travel to a town you've already been too. Or the Griffon Towers of EQ2.



Sadly, NC seems to keep futzing with ports and their costs...usually for the worst. You either get used to it and learn all the shortcuts, or you just bone up for the ports. (HINT: If you don't die you don't have to run that distance again!) There are ridable mounts in game...but they are not cheap or easy to aquire. (Still don't have mine! >_< ) Only other thing you can do is just stay out longer and move location less. (You could just explore the world as well, and make the most of the running around as well....)


I know it seems like I'm complaining a lot, but this game has a lot going for it that other games don't have as well. The Olympiad, Castles, Manor System, lots of depth etc. It also has a very awesome interface. But in the day to day, it becomes hard to see how much good a game is when faced with such adverse conditions.

Also, please don't just tell me to leave and go play other games. I chose this game because I wanted to give it a fair shot and have heard a lot of good about it. I don't mean to sound negative so please don't flame me. If they are reasons for how things are, please let me know, as I am only new and won't know all the facts.

Good luck and happy adventuring everyone. :p


My advice....just play the game for awhile before you let one thing or another get you down. The game has enough good points to experience....and other weak points that are worth more of your ire than these piddly little annoyances. O_o!
20 mobs at my lvl is .01%
i havent died for any other reason than lag, dc or ganking in about 30 lvls

its pretty much imposible to die these days with the right potions
I'm not dying all that often it has happened four times altogether. I have read the everything on the main pages, including all the links, and I read the forums when I have various questions, as no one seems to respond in game.

I understand how to use the con system, EQ2 has a similiar system, just a more precise one. I never attack anything yellow, orange or red. Only white and light greens, and only one at a time. I only die if they don't stop chasing me or a spell fails to go off.

I've upgraded to the best armour i can afford, and upgraded all my main spells. I have windstrike at 3, Ice Bolt at 2, Heal at 2, Anti Magic, Armour Mastery, Weapon Mastery and... can't remember last one.

I've also been listening to what the newbie guide says I need, about what things to buy, what spells to get etc.. And also where to hunt. That's where my frustration is coming from as well. I either have to hang out near the Dark Forest entrance and kill Green Mushrooms for very slow gains and loot, or take a risk against the Balor Orc's or Blood Mushrooms.

A bit of a steep curve. I'm definately gonna stick around at least till 20, where I'm told it gets better. As for the rest of my points, I guess the message I'm getting is like it or lump it? That's dissappointing, I wonder if this game manages to retain new players. Because from a new perspective some things are really flawed and the only ones who seem to get by are the much more experienced and long term players.

And yeah I found out about the death penalty today, that's a nice surprise.

Ah well, who cares what a newb thinks anyway.
The game is really hard when you start, when I start 1 year ago a friend of mine atart with me so it was easier because we duo all the time, use the port at the beggining is expensive and is not an option, is inportant to do all the quests that you can some of then will give you soulshots/spirit shots that will increase the damage output, also learn to check the constantly the remaining time of your buff, at the moment the ones you get from the newbe guide will last for 1 hour, when you get to other cities the buff you get from other players will last for 20 mins so be sure to look the remaining time before engaging to battle

PD: By the way what server do you play
Sounds like you are a Dark Elf, so go to Stratics (http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/library/quests/) and do the quests at the appropriate level. Some will give you a better weapon, some will give you soul/spiritshots, others will give you money. A few biggies to begin with in the Dark Elf Village:

If you haven't already, Chains of Slavery (http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/library/quests/index.php?id=265) at level 6. Get the quest from the NPC (one of the guards on the way out the West side of town), go kill mobs til you get one shackle, then run back to the NPC and your inventory will fill up with spiritshots that will last you several levels.

Trade with the Ivory Tower (http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/library/quests/index.php?id=262). This one is repeatable, but you will need to carry Scrolls of Escape with you to cut down on all the running.

Forgotten Truth (http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/library/quests/index.php?id=106). Oh look! More spiritshots! This town loves mages! Well, plus a weapon and some other junk.


Obviously more quests there, so try and do them all. Being very new, every bit of adena helps. However, when you do the level 3 quest and get a Scroll of Escape - Giran, SAVE IT for a rainy day. There are better uses for it later in your career then wasting it on sightseeing.


Save every bit of coal, animal skin, iron, thread, stems, charcoal, and other basic materials that you come across. You will need them later.

Lastly, since many mobs in DEV are passive, you should learn about the MANOR system. Even as a mage, it can help you begin to attain wealth at an early level.

Have fun.


I've upgraded to the best armour i can afford, and upgraded all my main spells. I have windstrike at 3, Ice Bolt at 2, Heal at 2, Anti Magic, Armour Mastery, Weapon Mastery and... can't remember last one.




I can see one issue alone right here.

Your playing a 'Mystic'. Solo that is and as your first character.

Your 'first' character will always give you the most problems as you are going to be extremely short on cash initially. A 'Mystic' for most races will be the harshest on terms of adena on your bottom line. This is simply due to their fighting mechanics. Basically you need to be using BSPS and a good Matk weapon in order to level with anything resembling speed or ease. (I level most of my melee char without shots, even though it is dog sniffing slow....but I wouldn't level my nuker without BSPS!)

You could level without shots, but the downtime to regen MP would be intensely painful. I hope you are using the free Novice Spiritshots you were given at least. Up until C grade you will also find that there is only two ways (NG-Devotion Robes/D-Elven Mithril robes) other than potions ($$$) to increase your cast speed, thus being able to 1-2 shot mobs is almost an essential must. (Hence the need for BSPS)

If your intent is to level without making some melee alts or deleveling for cash, you need to make some hard choices for equipment and leveling. Your NG levels will be slightly forgiving, but D and higher grades will be much more harsh.


I've upgraded to the best armour i can afford, and upgraded all my main spells. I have windstrike at 3, Ice Bolt at 2, Heal at 2, Anti Magic, Armour Mastery, Weapon Mastery and... can't remember last one.

I've also been listening to what the newbie guide says I need, about what things to buy, what spells to get etc.. And also where to hunt. That's where my frustration is coming from as well. I either have to hang out near the Dark Forest entrance and kill Green Mushrooms for very slow gains and loot, or take a risk against the Balor Orc's or Blood Mushrooms.


dude seems to be trying really hard to work the game out
What server are you on? If you are on Gustin I will give you robes and a weapon which will help. They are NG top gear but as I will only sell them back to the shop you may as well make use of them and then you can sell them later and have some adena to help you out at D Grade.

Ah well, who cares what a newb thinks anyway.



Not at all. Your opinion is as valid as any.

The thing is, and what you don't realize since you are new, is that L2 is an easier game NOW then when it was first released.

This is considered a brutal "hardcore" game. Because of this game design philosophy, everything is hard.

Getting a mount is hard (not many people have them, more novelty really). It used to be that people ran everywhere! There used to be so many mobs close to the roads in the new player lands that chances were you would aggro something and that was the end of that.

It used to be that if you died to a mob you had a chance to drop something. I remember dropping my Avadon Boots and rushing back to the area because someone would take it. Luckily no one found it.

I do remember prior to that, dropping my Karmian tunic, rushing back to the area (which was in dragon valley so a very dangerous place) with no tunic and casting extremely slow because of it, getting there, finding that someone did take it and then dying to mobs again because of aggro.

Point being, this is not a game like EQ2 or WoW. And I don't say that with any derision whatsoever. I think both games have their fine points and I can understand why people like them.

But this game is a hard game. Everything is hard. Economy, leveling, etc. But if you can work your way through that you will find a game where the friends you make mean more and do more for you than any other game I've experienced. Your allies really matter. They are not just a chat room when you log in.

They gather mats for you, rush to you when you drop an item (though that has been canged so unless you are red you won't be dropping anything), rez you when you need it and you will do the same for them.

And what if an enemy pk's you? Well, it's possible that your entire ally will rise up to smite them wherever they are.

Brutal game but a game that has great meaning. It's just a bit too sublime at times.

Ah well, who cares what a newb thinks anyway.


Apparently several of us considering the number of responses.

Have you done all of the quests that give you newbie shots? Do them, if not, and use them! Also, post your server and I'll bet some nice soul will help you out. Clans now have academies for toons less than 40. Lastly, don't give up! It can be extremely frustrating finding your way but it is quite rewarding.

Edit: oh, and listen to Sovrath. He's a DE nuking tyrannosaurus!

Edit: oh, and listen to Sovrath. He's a DE nuking tyrannosaurus!



Seriously! I'm starting to appreciate the power of Dark Vortex! :eek:


Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).


So that's 7-9 mobs to get your EXP back. Wait 'til you get a few levels under your belt. 7% (or whatever it is) at level 10 is *nothing*.



At level 66 I get 0.03 per mob killed max, and lose arround 4% every time I die. Imagine 75+. Now THATS a pain in the ***. As for the penalty thing you mentioned, there is blessed scroll of resurection, but it is very, VERY expensive.



Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).


So that's 7-9 mobs to get your EXP back. Wait 'til you get a few levels under your belt. 7% (or whatever it is) at level 10 is *nothing*.



At level 66 I get 0.03 per mob killed max, and lose arround 4% every time I die. Imagine 75+. Now THATS a pain in the ***. As for the penalty thing you mentioned, there is blessed scroll of resurection, but it is very, VERY expensive.


I wouldn't waste a BREZ on myself at my level. My SE rez is good enough. Bishop would be better. :p


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Firstly, the fact that when I kill a mob, I gain around 1% experience. However when that same mob kills me I seem to lose between 7-9% each time I die. That seems a little unbalanced and a little rough on a new player (I'm only level 10).


So that's 7-9 mobs to get your EXP back. Wait 'til you get a few levels under your belt. 7% (or whatever it is) at level 10 is *nothing*.



At level 66 I get 0.03 per mob killed max, and lose arround 4% every time I die. Imagine 75+. Now THATS a pain in the ***. As for the penalty thing you mentioned, there is blessed scroll of resurection, but it is very, VERY expensive.


I wouldn't waste a BREZ on myself at my level. My SE rez is good enough. Bishop would be better.


my necro sub took se rez all the way to 74
i brezed only once and that was because i was 8% from lvl and only had 2 hours to get my lvl
Hi guys, thanks for all the help and advice. I currently play on Bartz with my Dark Elf Mystic. I'm lvl 11 at the moment. I should of guessed sooner that starting out with a mage class would be much harder for a new player. It makes a lot of sense now.

I did create a Human Fighter on Hindemith as I heard they were the most helpful server. Is it possible to transfer my character to another server, or should I just reroll my human back on Bartz?

Once again, thanks for all the advice. So much to learn, loving it!
Greetings,


Is it possible to transfer my character to another server, or should I just reroll my human back on Bartz?

Once again, thanks for all the advice. So much to learn, loving it!



Hhahhahahahahahahaahaha NO !

Elvis would turn in is grave. My advice would be get some friends before you get some level.

Because one directly affects the other.

Reroll, [923]


Have Fun ! ™

Darkmotion
Board Devil (http://yodup.club.fr/critiques_bouquins/historique/sagafolco.htm) / Fired ! (http://forums.mmoradio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66)

Hi guys, thanks for all the help and advice. I currently play on Bartz with my Dark Elf Mystic. I'm lvl 11 at the moment. I should of guessed sooner that starting out with a mage class would be much harder for a new player. It makes a lot of sense now.

I did create a Human Fighter on Hindemith as I heard they were the most helpful server. Is it possible to transfer my character to another server, or should I just reroll my human back on Bartz?

Once again, thanks for all the advice. So much to learn, loving it!



Wizard are just harder to level with sub standard gear....once you have some decent gear they are actually *easier* to grind than a melee. (By a big margin...) Assuming you go the route of a nuker anyway. Oddly enough though a Summoner is probably the one class that has the least problems with gear once you pass L40. Simply because their summon IS their gear. (For the most part.)

There are no server transfers at this time....and if your char is under L20, it's fast and easy to reroll your char anyway. (XP at those levels is quick, and you haven't yet had a lot of time to hoard up enough cash/equip to make the loss any hardship.

I understand how to use the con system, EQ2 has a similiar system, just a more precise one. I never attack anything yellow, orange or red. Only white and light greens, and only one at a time. I only die if they don't stop chasing me or a spell fails to go off.
I've upgraded to the best armour i can afford, and upgraded all my main spells. I have windstrike at 3, Ice Bolt at 2, Heal at 2, Anti Magic, Armour Mastery, Weapon Mastery and... can't remember last one.


there are two things missing in thie equation. spiritshot and kiting. since you probably know what both these things are ill be quiet. oh and a weapon. never-never upgrade armor first. if your first character is a mage you should know that you can stay in devotion tunic (click on it once to see the set bonus) until level 40. since you are level 11 now there are two quests you can do to get weapons that only use one sps (shorthand for spiritshot) per spell, and do decent damage. you can level past 20 with such a weapon if you need to. talk to blacksmith karrod in the weapon shop (hes around a corner) and the guy in the center of the room at the top of the stairs, in the place where you learned your skills. when you get to level 18 talk to astaron, hes somewhere in town, he'll give you a good quest you can do ad nauseum. instead of running back and forth, run one way to the spiders at black rock hill, kill enough of them, then type /unstuck into the text box. this command will take you back to town so you can repeat. if you dont have enough money for a decent weapon at level 20, make another couple alts, hand off your old equipment to them, and explore the game a bit more. there are useful quests to do everywhere in elmore/aden, some more useful than others.
I know it can be hard when you start, especially if you're solo and know no-one. I was the same. However, most of the things you question are actually what makes the game addictive at the start. If its all too easy at the start then the fun will be over before its begun.
Hindemith is a friendly server but I've played a lot of the servers and you usually find helpful people on them all.
One of the first chars I started was an Orc mystic. She's still a noob as I hated the grind lol. I moved to a Human fighter and although TI is like a ghost town, its a good class to get used to the game. When you know how to handle this, you could then move to another class knowing the basics and get it to 20 in no time.
Good luck !