Every Class should be inspected and looked at: (I’d love to see some players answers to these)
Can they solo? if so what? 1-80 Does it work at higher levels? PvE what’s their job? Do their skills reflect that? PvP what’s their job? Do their skills reflect that? What are they lacking if anything? Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Several folks have asked me why I wrote this one and they also said, If I started a second thread they would put up their answers. So here goes…….
Class Level
Demon 77 Hell Knight
Can they solo?
YES
If so what? 1-80
At 77 I am killing white mobs in the wall. I can solo most normal mobs non aggressive, if I use a Pet and pots and self buffs, ss and beast ss, but it is very slow. (Awaiting the angle fear/kill in interlude)
Does it work at higher levels?
I have tried Imperial Tomb, but can not kill undead effectively with out spending a great more than I make.
PvE what’s their job?
To Tank!
Do their skills reflect that?
YES! NC has gone along way; Aura of Hate was a great addition to the class and the biggest boom to PvE we have gotten. However DA’s lack the HP and Magic resist of other classes.
PvP what’s their job?
To Tank! To be the first one to head into a fight and draw fire.
Do their skills reflect that?
Somewhat,
The reality is I am a 30 second pony, I run in hit UD and start spamming Aura of Hate, Aggression and Hamstring I then point my Cat at the weakest healer I can find. I only do 200ish damage with my A axe so. All of my focus is on max HP and holding aggression long enough for my damage dealers to do their work.
What are they lacking if anything?
1) More HP! DA’s lack damage dealing because their focus is damage soaks several damage dealers have more HP then they do. I think DA’s need a HP boost.
2) More Mdef! With magic attacks, IF a DA is only hitting for 200 at 77, and their Main point is to soak damage, should they not have higher mdef? Normal nukes from 78-79 hero’s hit me for 6000 damage! I was once crited for 13000 damage! That is insane to be 77 and hit that hard. Majesty would be a great place to add an Mdef buff into a skill already present, because of its short duration.
3) Touch of Death, I am told needs reworking it is touch of joke for a 78 skill. The best one I have heard is a 1500 hp drain that drains 1500 HP from the attacker and gives 1000 to the DA. 30 min re-use 25% or less HP cast.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
NO, even though NC has said the Cat is your damage in PvP, the Cat has never been anything more than fluf in PvP. Which leaves the DA with very little in the way of offence. This is even more a reason for HP and Mdef increases to truly do their job tanking even in PvP.
The cat resistances in PvP even with buffs make it useless. Even more now with erase! Player’s realize chances that they do damage now are slim. Mostly they are a distraction on a healer for 3 to 5 sec instead of the healer healing.
I hope more folks will post their class info at the bottom here are the questions laid out to make it easier:
Class Level
Can they solo?
If so what? 1-80
Does it work at higher levels?
PvE what’s their job?
Do their skills reflect that?
PvP what’s their job?
Do their skills reflect that?
What are they lacking if anything?
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Can they solo?
Yes, anything can solo, difference is speed.
If so what? 1-80
Not much, and very slow unless you have a 2boxed buffer and CH. Probably best bet is at the 700 mob area, but in reality it's a waste of time.
Does it work at higher levels?
Soloing has become harder and harder as my levels progressed, and while my class hasn't changed much since level 58, only got more damage etc, mob ai has become stronger and smarter and the amount of solo spots have become limited and impossible if in war.
PvE what’s their job?
Melee DD with emphasis on flanking damage.
Do their skills reflect that?
Somewhat. I feel there needs to be more emphasis and advantage to getting behind your opponent rather than just specials.
PvP what’s their job?
Stealthily close the distance between opponent, get behind and kill fast.
Do their skills reflect that?
With the additions to trick/switch this has improved. But rather than give bonuses to land rates on specials, I'd like to see more ways of gaining advantages on ranged characters. A "teleport" behind target with a reduced P.Def/M.def?
What are they lacking if anything?
An ability to get to their opponent and close the distance. The break arrest skill coming soon should help but it's not enough.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I believe the developers learned to adapt to what the players wanted to play as since C2. First of all the differences between classes were set in stone in Chronicle 1 with land rates and power of each of the daggers skills. Then C2 came along and then in C3 all daggers were exactly the same minus the "race" defining skills such as entangle, freezing strike and self buffs and the TH's dash and "best of both worlds" passives. I feel the developers lost their focus on the daggers because of the dagger IMBA in C2 and I would love to see the C1 balance between the 3 dagger classes returned.
If so what? 1-80
1-40 lvl soloing works but after that without buffs and recharger its no use, you need too many nukes to kill anything and you run out of mana in 5 min.
Does it work at higher levels?
Not rly you need buffs and recharge.
PvE what’s their job?
Kill mobs fast with only nuke they got. Or being a part of AoE group.
Do their skills reflect that?
AoE part yes, hope thou they change rain of fire to have bigger effect area. Solo/nuke part no cause only one nuke and no overhit skill what so ever.
PvP what’s their job?
To cancel and kill ppl.
Do their skills reflect that?
Well sorcs have cancel but killing part is hard cause lack of skills.
What are they lacking if anything?
Skills we need skills! Try to play with only one nuke its boring and fustrading cause when you get interupted you just need to wait so you can nuke again. Sorc has serious lack of skills (nukes).
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Well dont see many sorcs around cause its so nerfed class atm. But I think many dont play much the AoE part of the sorc cause aoe aint so good anymore. Just hoping they give sorc little boost.
Can they solo?
Yes, but slow, needs buffs to really shine
If so what? 1-80
1-61 you can pretty much solo all the way, first dagger till HE, then Fields of Silence, Forest of Evil Spirits, Cemetary, Forsaken Plains
Does it work at higher levels?
If you have out of party buffs yes, if not then you are wasting way too many potions and shots to get the job done.
PvE what’s their job?
Crit as much and as hard as possible, and keeping tanks and healers on their toes :)
Do their skills reflect that?
Not really, in PvE I just shoot and hardly use skills besides my Body to Mind to keep my mp up once in a while, or to summon arrows on the battlefield...but those aren't really attack skills.
PvP what’s their job?
Kill robes, if possible kill light armours as well, heavy armour is a no go, there are other people more then capable enough of handling off those.
Do their skills reflect that?
My skills are to neutralize low P Def mobs or people. But not to stand in battle for ages, it's run, hit, crit and run again.
What are they lacking if anything?
A self-buff Wind Walk2, but honestly I don't call that a lack. I like my class as it is.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
As pure rogue, I think untill 61 you are playing pretty much like they are intended to be, being rogue and solo, after that, you need people.
Can they solo? Technically yes, with underpowered nukes, non nuker stats, zero regen skills. Very difficult and expensive because of this and the fact that most undead are mixed in with AGGRO, living. Slow, painful. Not worth it compared to a group. Tried it at 76 by pagens, just one aggro living basically screws you up since it takes 5 mins to melee it down.
If so what? 1-80 probably, there's undead at all ranges. I would rather hang myself than try to exp that way. I have tried it too, it gets old in about 4 mins.
Does it work at higher levels? Just as well as 40+ which isn't saying much
PvE what’s their job? Heal and rez
Do their skills reflect that? Yes, highest of all the heals, highest rez, mass rez
PvP what’s their job? Heal and rez, maybe trance
Do their skills reflect that? Yes, major heals in C5 and making mass rez actually useful confirms that. Greater battle heal is all I use in PVP anyway, and no other class has that.
What are they lacking if anything? Mana regen skills (fixed in interlude I guess). More defense type magic
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences? Can't really say as I don't know, though the description of bishop is way way off.
Can they solo? If so what? 1-80
up to level 45ish, yes. after that they need regeneration or VR to make up for low p def in pve due to the rage self-buff, and naturally low m def of a warrior class. as of C4 there are several quests that give NPC buffs that make it possible to solo up to level 76.
Does it work at higher levels?
soloing with NPC buffs is amazing xp for a single character, almost as much as a nuker+recharger, but it comes with a risk of needing to have your hp cycle under control, and after two years i still cant seem to get it right 100% of the time, so assume a 4% loss if you want to solo for a couple hours or more.
PvE what’s their job?
taking damage and dealing damage. in a small party with an archer its too hard to keep aggro, in parties with a nuker i dont seem to have this problem becasue of the lower crit rate. can tank for small parties, but at a raid they are about as useful as a dwarf.
Do their skills reflect that?
with the addition of zealot in C5 they have 3 amazing low-hp skills which stay in effect after hp has risen. combined creatively with rage and battle roar skills, it can be a potent and fun combination. if you arent taking damage, you might as well have played a dwarf.
PvP what’s their job?
in mass PvP, do whatever you can to be the first target of the enemy, or start out the fight with low hp. in a 1vs1, you will win as long as your enemy doesnt kite you.
Do their skills reflect that?
in mass PvP, since they are often targeted last by choice, the class isnt very effective. slow run speed means that your enemies can use a regular soe before you can close the gap. if a destroyer does manage to use a low hp skill in mass PvP, the player is either very lucky or very skilled.
What are they lacking if anything?
personally i dont think they are lacking anything, and havent lacked anything since C3. so i dont see why they keep changing the class.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
i think this is exactly what the developers created the class to be. a general melee class that is easily customized, with self-saving skills for dangerous situations. the use of these skills is intended to be left up to the player.
If so what? 1-80
It's slow and expensive (about .25%/Buffround, cost about 400 A-SS).
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes, but the higher you go the more it becomes unworthy.
PvE what’s their job?
Basicly, to buff ppl up. A root/heal here and there. Depending on the party to help with damage.
Do their skills reflect that?
Mostly, yes.
PvP what’s their job?
Almost the same as PvE, just with other priority sometimes.
Do their skills reflect that?
Same as for PvE.
What are they lacking if anything?
Some kind of attack-type skill. The Orc-Buffer (Warcryer) got its drain. Bishop/EE have something against undead (they need something other aswell but thats not my problem, same for SEs) It doesnt have to be efficient (mp wise or whatever).
The MP managment is also horrible and need a fix.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I would love to answer that but my boss is calling me to my box.
cant solo, if you say they can, then every class can. Healers can just sit there and hit the mob until it is dead too.
pve job is to hold more items for the rest of the group and leach. Also to hold key mats and set up craft shops for 1a so they can be there longer.
pvp job is pretty much the same as pve, not do anything. Sure we can have lots of hp, but that does nothing when we have no skills to stop someone. No ud means hp doesnt really matter.
in sieges, it is cheaper, and faster to nuke a door down then to summon any siege golem.
supposed to be a money making class, but any class can craft, any class can make just as much money just as fast. There is nothing special about a warsmith for making money. Sure you can charge 5m for crafts, but people will be happy to pay 5m when the weapon works and they can sell for a 300m profit.
How do the devs want this class to be played? Everything this class can do and is suppose to be specialized in, every other class in the game can do it, and most things, a lot better.
At my level, 63's are okay. I *CAN* solo one 73 or so, but that's it, one.
Does it work at higher levels?
Nope.
PvE what’s their job?
Self buff with dances and grind to death. Way more efficient in an XP group.
Do their skills reflect that?
Well. I think that a BD could use a liiiittle bit of extra p.def. After all with the new dances (Demonic and Poison) he is the one who will go in between at least 4 or 5 opponets to cast. With armor masteries up to level 36 or something that's a NO NO.
PvP what’s their job?
Dance dance. Maybe arrest a mage for a bit, hex everyone too.
Do their skills reflect that?
The debuffs and the dances yes, they make it clear that it is a support character.
What are they lacking if anything?
Armor Masteries.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
To be honest, I think that the delevopers made this character for parties. Only for parties. His solo performance has somewhat let me down. But most of the times, I have to solo. Even support characters need to level.
Do their skills reflect that?
AoE debuffs are too random, hardly landing, not long lasting (PBD, DBD, Medusa). MP management on dances can be tough if you got a sws.
PvP what’s their job?
Dance/support. take enemy's out of combat with Medusa/arrest.
Maybe AoE debuff if in close quarter's.
Do their skills reflect that?
If their land rates was more reliable.
What are they lacking if anything?
AoE hex, drain, or Bleed. some kind of P df masteries. Range on Arrest is 150, needs to be uped to 400.
With Interlude coming up, glads get a dash skill, Daggers getting "break arrest", BD needs some kind of dash to keep up with open PvP, or will end up getting owned all the time.
I forgot to add, that BD's get almost nothing of use Dance wise from after 58 untill 74. at 74 we'd get vamp dance, but dance of Earth guard is hardly useful(very lil to nothing that does earth magic), terrain dmg is a waste of SP, aqua guard is hardly handy. for lvling they need to get dance of vamp at 62, and not earth guard.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Not a clue, I'm not sure if the developers know what the players want, which is evident with dances/songs mp useage.
Does it work at higher levels?
No because there are almost no places for archers to solo past 74 that are cost effective
PvE what’s their job?
DD debuffers.
Do their skills reflect that?
No we crit less then any other archer by a lot, our Str isnt that much better then HE's and only have 1 class specific skill.
PvP what’s their job?
DD and run and hide if your targeted your dead.
Do their skills reflect that?
Nope, HE's crit more and just as hard, and Silver Rangers run faster. There are no real benefits to playing a PR over the other 2 archers.
What are they lacking if anything?
Our debuffs should come in the form of arrows and be 900 range. We are suppose to be a Magical Archer a mix of magic and arrows. As it now we are a gimped archer with no hp and no real reason to roll this class.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Nope if they did they would give us a Ice arrow (instead of freezing strike) Posion Arrow (instead of poision) Hex/Powerbreak Arrow (instead of the spells)..... This could of easily been balanced with the need of putting consumables in so you can use these arrows I.E. Ice orb for ice arrows, venom sacs for Posion Arrows, Dark orbs for Hex/Powerbreak.
As it is now the class is incomplete and most definatly broken and im one of the happiest people on earth when i can sub and get off this broken class.
Can they solo? If so what? 1-80
yes solo on mobs with fire and sowrd resistance but only on some limited levels 55 - 60. becaus there are too fue mobs with sword weak point :(
Does it work at higher levels?
nop
PvE what's their job?
to be a meat.
Do their skills reflect that?
all skils are great .. except 1 thing - it takes 2 much time 2 cast them. realy , dear developers, try what u did .. at 30% i have 2 cast atleast 2 skils - Frenzy / Rage + Battle Roar or even 3 Frenzy / Rage + Zealot + Battle Roar. and i must to tell you that - at thte time when i will cast them i will die ... checked 100 ++ times... why ? because destro 2 slow .. he cant run away to use skils, cant stay and cast them in combat, due to long cast time them destro will die b4 he will buff them. this caused by - LOW HP (30%), LOW PDEF, wery LOW MDEF. anywone will kill him.
PvP what's their job?
meat, cause to kiteing can pvp only with orcs, dwarfs, support. no chance against archer / dagger / mage (80% of all players are of this 3 types)
Do their skills reflect that?
best skills ever, but due to big cast time - usesles :(
What are they lacking if anything?
ability to do + MEN tatoo
Gutz should incrase mdef 2 (due 2 lowest mdef in game)
skill fix - following skills Frenzy / Zealot / Guts - should be turned to aura like skils .. so i turn them on .. when i have any hp ... and when i fall to 30% hp they should enable effects automaticly. this vill help to avoid waste of time to cast them .. by surtain reasons.
and turn war frenzy from aura to buff cause .. with pole in hand .. destro have 6 skills that should be turned as aura - it is 2 much! imho !! realy think about 6 aura skils.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
dont think so .. as everyone think it is big and powerful yes he is big .. lot of hp .. and extremly powerfull when he is ded. unfortunalty unlike the any other char we cant enjoy pvp .. all we have to do is to watch how much hp we left and when we will be able to use some skill wich will made as pvp able. but even then due to low hp low chance to take any part in pvp b4 u will die.
p.s. imho kiteing - is worst idea that came to Developers brain.
Since you are "just" 64 you will maybe change your mind on your way to 78, but I really suggest you get in talk with some Destroyers/Titans from your clan/ally or some friendly ally (or even here on the boards, you could start a topic in the guide/questions section).
After reading your post im not sure if I should laugh or cry.
1-52 you ganna be ok. After that mobs ganna pretyt much pwn you.
Does it work at higher levels?
BD's are imperitive at higher lvls
PvE what’s their job?
dance and do some damage dealing with their duals
Do their skills reflect that?
Yep
PvP what’s their job?
Dance, arrest, hex, get crit for 8k by archers.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yep
What are they lacking if anything?
Im not going to say armor masterys even though it would be nice. I would like an aoe hex though and an AOE drain kkthx!
Also! I would like a resist stun passive in my mid fiftys
Thanks!
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I think so.
sirjohnson you never exped intill you got your char at what 77? or 78 and then it went to 77 or 76 forgot :(
This tread isn't for people to come in here and bash other players. Remain constructive or don't reply.
There is no reason for your comments.
Please stay constructive in your reply's in this rather serious tread, Because maybe this mite get heard, and something mite be done about our Class that we play as North American/euro players.
I'm still waiting to hear about all those other classes. theres a 29 page post about SE's, and EE's in "interlude" forum. but seems like those players aren't here explaining their classes.
Can they solo?
Nope only if you count spending tons of money in heal and buff pots and soulshots. Herbs help a little but most time you solo you will sit for regen HP.
If so what? 1-80
With top grade equip i think you can solo till 56 after it just gets to slow. Herbs help a lot to enjoy it i also know lvlning solo without them made me almost quit the game.
Does it work at higher levels?
Nope best bet you can do as BH is get aoe group in catas. Im not sure how bad it gets later on.
PvE what’s their job?
Spoil for recipes and main item parts and sometimes enchnats for other pepole who get all the good spoils. Most materials could be gotten faster and cheaper with manor.
There are even some ppl that dont take bounty hunters in party because they dont even need the spoils.
Do their skills reflect that?
Whats skills ? Havening 2 stun attacks that dont even work often and a few useless polearmskills i never use is not much. Fakedeath is nice if i have the mana for it.
PvP what’s their job?
Cannon fodder. Cheap PvP points. From my experience.
Do their skills reflect that?
What are they lacking if anything?
Some selfbuffs for better Pdef and mdef would be nice.
More attak skills would be helpfull i also need a ranged attack skill. If i get rooted in Forest of the dead by a mob and have no bow im 100% dead alone.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Well not many people play a bounty hunter or even a dwarf. Most of the ones that played one gave up playing them at some lvl or where glad when they finally reach lvl 75 for subclass.
No wonder they have nothing to offer anymore and take ages to lvl. The spoils became so bad with the 3rd item spoil it now takes even longer if you hunt for a special item and if you spoil it you might not even get it because of the spoil share. Also most spoils at higher lvls are a joke you will end up with adamite and black ore gem parts for the most some mobs spoil materials you can get a lot faster while using manor. Then you will also get top B grade parts ( no one needs at lvl 66 ) and also lower A Grade parts. You can also spoil some A grade recipes but they spoil to bad ( most are weapon and jewl recipes for helmet recipes you can hunt 3 weeks and get maybe one if you dont get PKed ).
Dont know if thats how the developers see the bounty hunter.
All i can say he helped me outfit all of my characters i play while i played how it was intended ( using spoil to gather later manor when it was implented too ). Then again i see a lot ppl that did start way later then me and have a lot more money and dont have a dwarf too.
If so what? Up to level 64 its not so bad, in a melee set-up I could solo in Forgotten plains until I ran out of SS. The best exp is killing the Fallen Orc shamans that turn into tigers, as they are 1x hp mobs that give 2x exp. Just trance or root any adds.
Does it work at higher levels? Not really, I can only manage 2-3% an hour. There are no good solo spots 65+. Valley of Saints is about the only place I can go that drops herbs/pots.
Field of Massacre would be a good exp spot, but the undead don't drop herbs/pots. Same goes for Forbidden gateway. Ancient Battle ground is risky due to 5 on 1 and also no pots/herbs. Wall of Argos- well.. I can kill the pronghorns, but it is too slow to be worth it.
PvE what’s their job? Heal, crowd control, and defensive buffs.
Do their skills reflect that? Yes.
PvP what’s their job? Heal and party recall
Do their skills reflect that? yes. in a cast speed set-up
we can spam MH annd GH at near battle heals speeds.
What are they lacking if anything? For being defensive buffers, we don't get resist water or an Mdef buff.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played?
I doubt it.
What differences? We're support class and not suppose to solo. I spend most of my time fishing these days.
Can they solo?
Till like 52 with Disrupt undead. Slow and painful as we have no MP acquiring skills.
Higher levels - doubt it ... if, then meelee in light armor, painful and tedious and expensive.
If so what? 1-80
Undeads. Then maybe some mobs with non-ranged attacks, that do not stun and have low pdef.
Does it work at higher levels?
Not much.
PvE what’s their job?
Buff (2 unique buffs), recharge, occasional supportive heal. Fits for duo and small group in safe environment. Lost healer status in C5. Some crowd control with root. Besides prophets most boxed classes.
Do their skills reflect that?
Pretty much yes
PvP what’s their job?
Buff, recharge, and sit in town or by flags. Avoid "real pvp" because got no skills to "really do something useful". Cannot outheal damage and root hardly lands on high level targets with resists. Mana burn is joke for it's own mana consumption.
Do their skills reflect that?
For buffing and recharging? Yes.
What are they lacking if anything?
Live players behind toons. Somewhat boring to play at high levels. Lack some uniqueness that would attract players to play that toon "till the end".
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Developers change their mind every chronicle. Hard to say then.
Disrupt Undead stops working around 50 level.Soloing with light armor and melee weapon was not an option for me.
/
Gets slower without boxed support but still can solo easily.
PvE whats their job?
Buff , recharge , heal.
/
Decent DD , in larger physical damage based groups can act as buffer with Queen.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
/
Yes
PvP whats their job?
Sit near flag or in town and :
/target nuker
/recharge
/WM2
/recharge
/empower
/recharge
/target another nuker
/repeat
/
Summon queen and buff Blessing.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
/
Yes
What are they lacking if anything?
Its not only a SE's problem but related to all support i think.We need something that will make larger groups more atractive.Right now you will spend 1-2 hours organising large group , and when someone decides to leave after one hour the group will break.Solo/small group with boxes can be organised in couple minutes.And solo/small group gets more exp than most of the large groups.For me most of the small groups are just boring and the fact that i'm not doing anything except buffing ever 20 minutes are not very atractive.
/
Some additional buffs for summons would be nice.And increase in servitors p def/m def.While PVE are just fine , using DD servitor in pVP is depresing.Any heavy armor class can easily negate all servitor damage with CP potion spam , light armors kills servitor in 2 crits/couple stabs , and robes can easily erase summon at first try or 3 shot it with nukes (i'm talking about "normal" buffed pvp).
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
If NC wanted more than 90% of SE's to be boxes the developers has done a fine job.
/
Warlocks are DD/buffers.Too bad that in PVP they are just buffers.
Can they solo?
Solo works until mid 50s either with disrupt undead or with some high crit rate weapon+vr on single mobs without any nasty tricks like stun or lots of social mobs around them. After mid 50s, disrupt undead fails a lot and becomes useless.
If so what? 1-80
Fastest killing is definitely undead mobs, as longs as it works. Bad mp efficiency though, it is basically like a nuker hunting by spamming aura flare, and SE does not have any mp regen skills like clear mind. So lots of downtime. If you hunt by clobbering mobs, it definitely should be carefully chosen mobs - low pdef, weakness to the weapon type you are using, that stuff.
Does it work at higher levels?
Technically, it works. You can go out and kill mobs if you really want to. But it's like getting your teeth pulled while dancing on broken glass. Finding a group definitely is better xp. SE/ShS is definitely not a solo class - you have to kill mobs via physical attacks, since you do not have any damage dealing skills at all, but the stats mean that you will deal low damage. You would also have to maintain a second set of "DD" gear in addition to whatever you use for parties, and that is very expensive when you're talking about B or A grade.
PvE what’s their job?
Buff, recharge, assistant healing. Up to C5, SE could function as main healer in all but a few hunting spots. Now the healing only works when you're hunting in a pretty safe area (i.e. the group has no real problems with the mobs) or when you're duoing with somebody.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes, to a certain extent. The class has two buffs which are highly wanted, empower and vampiric rage. Other buffs are a subset of the prophet buff set with several important buffs missing, like haste, acumen, greater shield/might, btb, bts, mdef and resist buffs. So while the SE can function as a main buffer for a party, the party will not xp as fast as with a prophet/warcryer. SE is ok as a buffer if you want a "quick" small party somewhere or if you duo and are willing to pop potions. That works pretty well, a small party with a BD, a dagger and a SE is very good exp if you go to a catacomb, for example. But if you want to go somewhere to exp "seriously", like in a high level place, you will want a real buffer. Same for pvp, SE buffs are lacking there, too. Recharge works as intended, no problems there, just not as perfect as a EE does (higher MEN, clarity), but that's the EE specialty. Heals are only assistant heals now, they work for that and they still work well in a small party in a non-dangerous place.
PvP what’s their job?
Throw out emp/wm, recharge people. Sit in a spot somewhere to do that. Try to root people, maybe erase a summon or two. Mana burn costs too much mp to make a difference. Generally, you buff people who died and try to annoy a few enemies, but that's it.
Do their skills reflect that?
Buff, try to root, die? Yes, the skills reflect that.
What are they lacking if anything?
A clearly defined role. Everything the SE can do, some other class is better at. That means that for any role the SE could possibly fill, people will say "yes, but we could also use class xy for that spot, that would be better". So SE is always second choice. Need a buffer? Take a prophet or warcryer, or use a SE and xp slowly until you can find one of those. Need a healer? Take a EE or a Bishop, or take a SE and go to an easier spot. SE can do a little bit of everything, that's why many people have one as a 2box. That's where a SE is really good, and the amount of non-live SEs shows it. But I cannot believe NCSoft wanted to create a class with "not for live players" in the description...
A second point is that SE really needs some interesting higher level skills. There is no real incentive to keep lvling up, there is nothing to look forward to. At lvl 56/58 you have all the important buffs, and after that it is only Wild Magic at 62/70 and a last VR upgrade at 72 (although the lvl 58 VR3 also works well anyway). Ah, and holy resist - which is cleary 2nd rate to unholy resist or divine protection. The 76 arcane protection is laughable, nobody uses it because buff slots are scarce. So you have to go all the way to 78 to finally get another good and interesting skill, prophecy of wind.
A last point is pvp skills. There needs to be some reason why anybody would take a SE to a pvp, apart from buffing empower. A few useful debuffs would help a lot.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Seriously, I do not have any idea what kind of role the devs intend for the SE. In my opinion, the class lacks a direction right now. If the devs want SEs to be buffpets and want live players to abandon the class, they are doing a very good job.
Turn undead works best on mobs that con white or lower and lands at a low rate. Though the rate does improve the lower the mob is.
EE can easily nuke any undead, its just that Might of Heaven is not very mp efficient. If the undead were to drop herbs/pots, nuking them would be an effective way to level.
Seems I can easily solo the 1/2 hp mobs in the Garden of Beasts nonstop for 3% an hour. They should be good up to about 70.
1-52 you ganna be ok. After that mobs ganna pretyt much pwn you.
Does it work at higher levels?
BD's are imperitive at higher lvls
PvE what’s their job?
dance and do some damage dealing with their duals
Do their skills reflect that?
Yep
PvP what’s their job?
Dance, arrest, hex, get crit for 8k by archers.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yep
What are they lacking if anything?
Im not going to say armor masterys even though it would be nice. I would like an aoe hex though and an AOE drain kkthx!
Also! I would like a resist stun passive in my mid fiftys
Thanks!
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I think so.
sirjohnson you never exped intill you got your char at what 77? or 78 and then it went to 77 or 76 forgot :(
This tread isn't for people to come in here and bash other players. Remain constructive or don't reply.
There is no reason for your comments.
Please stay constructive in your reply's in this rather serious tread, Because maybe this mite get heard, and something mite be done about our Class that we play as North American/euro players.
I'm still waiting to hear about all those other classes. theres a 29 page post about SE's, and EE's in "interlude" forum. but seems like those players aren't here explaining their classes.
i must bash sirjoshson its my thing! MALE BD! ahhhhhhhhh
Yes, but slow and limited since change in AoE areas and mob specifics as well as lack of MP recharge abilities compared to other nuking classes/races. But in al honesty are best with a SE at their side to Buff and occasionally rechrage (most of the time the herbs are enough to keep me going in a NM set-up). The fact of only having one decent nuke isn't making soloing (or grouping for that matter) any interesting. It get's quite boring after an amount of time.
If so what? 1-80
1-50 I'd say it's pretty douable to solo, once beyond that the buffs become kinda needed.
Does it work at higher levels?
Not really unless you stick to the Nuking regions only with not too much social or melee stunning mobs. If the AoE regions hadn't been touched I think it would still have been possible with just shots and AoE nukings.
I still think Duo is best for a sorcerer-sorceress (or any nuking char for that matter)
PvE what’s their job?
Deal Damage and crowd control
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes on the DD although a few more nuking possibilities would be enjoyable, NO on the crowd control as of C5 due to nerf
PvP what’s their job?
Cancel and Deal Damage if possible in AoE
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
What are they lacking if anything?
As I already stated above in several questions, the sorcerer class would be much more appreciable if it were to have a few new nuking abilities (not just added AoE's) and if AoE regions were again set to their initial balance they had prior C4 or C5. They are (specially when you look at nukes they got) AoE intended.
A mana recharge (even if it is but an upgrade of BtM up to a certain level) would be beneficial as well. SH has it and necro also, SpS get's the special buff to regain quicker mana but Sorcerer doesn't Oo. As mass mana using class it would be a plus to the class (even though we get lovely mana up passives it's really not enough in hectic PvP or Pve).
The rebalancing of sleep with a decrease in it's landing chances in PvP would be a progress as well. I know this has been discussed already many times, but honestly the nerf should have been done in this fashion from the start and not as it has been done now. It's not te casting speed that is the problem, but rather the rediculious landing rate the spell had in PvP. In all honesty it made PvP a joke.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I think we did at the beginning of LII, but no longer. I honestly have no clue how the developers are actually looking upon sorcerers/sorceressess as of late. In my own opinion I get the feeling they wish to eliminate it totally if I look at al the set backs.
Do I love the class? Heck yes otherwise I wouldn't have kept it my main for over 3 years and I shall get her to the magical LvL 80 (one day LOL)
Im not going to say armor masterys even though it would be nice. I would like an aoe hex though and an AOE drain kkthx!
Also! I would like a resist stun passive in my mid fiftys
Thanks!
Good ones, but these wouldn't help us solo any better especially after late 60's. Unless you're talking about group mobs, which are a nightmare with our armor masteries.
If so what? 1-80. Mostly undead. Holy weapon is the best offensive buff EE's have, nukes, and turn undead. There aren't always enough undead areas to hunt.
Does it work at higher levels? It takes much longer to regen mp than it takes to use it all. If you melee, it takes a very long time to kill anything at all.
PvE what’s their job? 2nd best healer, best recharger, tank buffer, "Oh crap" button user (PR), crowd control
Do their skills reflect that? Yes, in groups. Solo the lack of any real offensive capability means they are the slowest solo grinders in the game.
PvP what’s their job? Dying and Rezzing.
Do their skills reflect that? Skills are useless if you're getting 1-shotted. The only skill that could prevent EE's from dying, light armor mastery, is useless due to a lack of suitable armors to use.
What are they lacking if anything? Pdef, hp, spells that defend against crits.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Developers gave the EE might of heaven and then set up everything else so its ineffective (lowest int, no ability to tat it), plus made it mp intensive and short ranged. I can't imagine what devs think EE's are supposed to do in PvP combat either.
Class Level: SwS 62
Can they solo? Yep, undead for preference.
If so what? 1-80. Undead mostly.
Does it work at higher levels? Can't say beyond 62, but using b-grade at 62 I can do alright. Self-heal, songs, self-buffs. Good combination, better armor masteries would help though.
PvE what’s their job? Sing, arrest, pretend to do damage.
Do their skills reflect that? They get a variety of songs, most of which they can never use due to lack of mp and buff slots.
PvP what’s their job? To sing, take damage, and annoy nukers.
Do their skills reflect that? They're clearly designed to inconvenience nukers, but with archers ruling PvP now, they're not so useful.
What are they lacking if anything? They specialize in defensive buffs, but have no buff to reduce crit rate or damage, which rules now. Armor masteries too.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
SwS are clearly designed to be support toons. The supremacy of offense over defense in the game leaves them in the shadow of BD's.
1-20 like all nukers - windstrike
20-30 RoD, RoA using winstrike and distrupt undead - doable with herbs
30-40 Execution Grounds using distrupt undead - doable with herbs
40-52 Bit difficult in the beginning, but with good weapon Forest of Mirrors is very good - also with herbs
52- (around 60 i belive) Fields of Mascare - also dropping herbs.
Does it work at higher levels?
I think it will be hard to find undead mobs without any live ones in the middle, whos either aggro or social.
PvE what’s their job?
Heal, Recharge, occasionally trance.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes. Fastest casting speed with proper armorsets and dyes. Not SO good for small groups, but with WC in party - awesome.
PvP what’s their job?
Heal, Rez, Party Return in "ohcrap" situations
Do their skills reflect that?
Yep all good.
What are they lacking if anything?
Not useful for small partys. Always have to organize big one to really shine. Not a single offencive buff (except might) so noone wants just EE for the party. SwS have their skill for crit rate, SR is the highest crit rate archer, same goes for PW. IMO EE could have focus, that would help them get smaller parties aswell.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I think so - healer with defencive melee buffs, lacking of m.def buff which could be also part of EE skilset. Seems good, just the thing is - the defence is not enough those days, where crit rates and damages are sky-high.
Turn undead works best on mobs that con white or lower and lands at a low rate. Though the rate does improve the lower the mob is.
EE can easily nuke any undead, its just that Might of Heaven is not very mp efficient. If the undead were to drop herbs/pots, nuking them would be an effective way to level.
Seems I can easily solo the 1/2 hp mobs in the Garden of Beasts nonstop for 3% an hour. They should be good up to about 70.
Might be woth it to try fotd daytime. Early in on the magies should be doable. You dont have as much dmg and mdef as I do, but you got ressit dark to compensate for mdef and holy wearpon to kind of compensate dmg. You can stay there to at least 72 (then mobs start turning light blue).
I think this question is redundant but yeah it's not hard. I solo'd 70-76 almost entirely and it only took me a few months. Depending on how hard i want to work i can do .9-1.2 per hour. I could probably get more but it's less dangerous that way. Also this is boxless solo, I fill up on supplies and hunt for 3-4 hours at a time with no outside help.
PvE whats their job?
Killin' things. PS operates mostly as a melee DD though i can act as a tertiary healer or can pull out nightshade and be a primary healer for most groups. Solo it's pretty obvious what i do
Do their skills reflect that?
Fairly well, though i used servitor recharge for the 3rd time ever a week ago. I wish i hadn't wasted SP on that skill.
PvP whats their job?
Kill the soft targets in mass PVP. The ability to have an endless supply of expendible minions means you can keep out of the fray for the most part. Alternatively you can rush to the back and assume that being 2 targets gets you to the back of the enemies and allows you to kill the healers. In 1v1 or small scale PS is an archer/dagger killer though their high speed means that they can get away and avoid death.
Healing is another alternative and it works very well, especially since nightshade can be put in UD. While not as good as a bishop due to speed and variety of heals nightshade is a decent healer and i've survived several small scale pvp's using him.
Do their skills reflect that?
Sort of, our heals are slow so our pets die a lot mroe than i'd prefer but then again we can just resummon so it's not an issue. I would prefer spark cubic to land more in PVP but as it is i don't mind. Windshackle is excellent for fighting any sort of fighter and has been the crux of several fights for me. Cubics are an integral part of summoner PVP and especially in group pvp they make a difference.
What are they lacking if anything?
While our pets are powerful they hit slow and crit very rarely. This is fine in PVE but in PVP it means that our pets lack the raw damage output abilities that other DD classes have. We have debuffs and heals to compensate and they do a great job in small PVPs. In large scale fights though focused fire can destroy a servitor because of the incredibly low defensive stats before it does significant damage due to a lack of criticals.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
For the most part but the devs screwed up severely on soulless. It has 2 special attacks, both of which are sub par but they chose to make it suck MP making it practically useless in solo unlike the other summoners. In recent times summoners have become a popular sub but hardly any of them are PS. I would lay most the fault on soulless. True the 4th servitors have an influence as well but the fact that other summoners can solo with a 10% pet while we're stuck with shadow is vry disheartening to other players. Looking at the interlude pet we see something similar. Both humans and elves are getting excellent pets while the PS is getting nightshade with higher matk and lower HP. Since PS is a mainly melee class this makes no sense at all even with the spectral lord's single melee ability. It's on par with giving us PoWind, a buff designed for high crit classes even though we have a base critical 1/3 of any other class that benefits from it.
Warcryer 71.
Yes, we can solo. Probably all the way up, but the higher the slower. At my curent lvl I get more exp duoing with an OL 9 lvls below me then solo. But only can solo at spots with herbs.
PvE job: Buff, asist DD, crowdcontroll, assist heal. Can't do all at once wery good, becouse we need different gear/tatoos for diferent tasks.
PvP job: buff, assist dd, some CC. Not as good as PvE, becouse party doesnt dies all at once and not always in buffrange for my rebuff. Also much higher mana spendings (have to buff more often due to deaths and can't realy stragger buffs).
What do we lack:
Well, if exclude clearly unreasonable and overpowering skills such as critical chance pasive, hex, 5-10 more buffs taken of other classes, the only thing I want is some fix to buffbox vs life suport issue, but that's more in player vs player department and I dont have any ideas on how to fix it ill stay quet.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I guess yes, exept may be exept those who go -10 str and those who buff&sit for 19minutes. But this is just mine opinion.
Can they solo?
Not too badly, with a boxed Shillien Elder.
and Prophet...
and Blade Dancer...
and...
If so what? 1-80
After level 52, (true) soloing is not a viable option.
Does it work at higher levels?
With the aid of SE/prophet buffs, it is possible.
But recognize here the major flaw: one person being dependent on at least two others to allow "solo" play.
PvE what’s their job?
There is no job. The class is obsolete, save occasional raid tanking.
Mob control is lost to things like one bow critical.
Do their skills reflect that?
The game has reached a point where someone with high physical damage output can do a better job crowd controlling than the class originally suited to that purpose.
"The best defense is a strong offense" theme explains why nukers/archers will take less damage in PvE than the class intended to take the brunt of the damage.
PvP what’s their job?
This is laughable.
Prior to arrest and hate's use on players, the tank had no clear-cut role. They were usually left as a last target, to be killed by everyone else once the real threats had been neutralized.
With arrest/PvP hate, have things changed?
No, they haven't. Rare is the case when arrest will land on a target, and hate (which was originally intended for PvE) was not implemented properly in PvP to be of any use.
Please, please do not tell me that running into a siege crowd, hitting vengeance, and spamming hate aura is a use for hate, and the primary "role" of the tank.
It does not work.
The mana cost is prohibitively expensive, and the actual target switch/force attack function is not effective.
Do their skills reflect that?
On paper, maybe.
PvE: Double the power of hate.
PvP: Since the power has no ostensive purpose, the problem here is the effect. For this skill to be useful, it needs to work 100% of the time.
Meaning: first hate will always switch targets to the tank, second hate (while being targeted) always forces attack.
What are they lacking if anything?
Nukers/archers/other classes even have been scaled appropriately over time (albeit some more than others), and the tank has been left behind.
What is the tank lacking? They are lacking true defense.
As a class that already cannot penetrate 200 CP heal spam, it would be reasonable to expect they could assume the defensive role in PvP.
But getting crit by bows for 1800 (on a guard/fortress/deflect arrow block), vortexed for 2000, cancelled/anchored with UD/heroic miracle on...experience speaks otherwise.
About saying that I could cut damage with elemental protection and some songs: we are talking about classes stand-alone.
I shouldn't need to rely on a prophet and sword singer to stand a chance to survive (not win, survive).
(Yes, I know all about the Interlude updates..but being over a year late, how many tanks will actually be there to enjoy the change?)
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
No.
The most effective way to level is abandoning defense for all-out offense.
The most effective way to PvP is hoping you have access to some hero skills so you stand a chance.
Turn undead works best on mobs that con white or lower and lands at a low rate. Though the rate does improve the lower the mob is.
EE can easily nuke any undead, its just that Might of Heaven is not very mp efficient. If the undead were to drop herbs/pots, nuking them would be an effective way to level.
Seems I can easily solo the 1/2 hp mobs in the Garden of Beasts nonstop for 3% an hour. They should be good up to about 70.
Might be woth it to try fotd daytime. Early in on the magies should be doable. You dont have as much dmg and mdef as I do, but you got ressit dark to compensate for mdef and holy wearpon to kind of compensate dmg. You can stay there to at least 72 (then mobs start turning light blue).
I've been to the Forest of the Dead, night time is a little better for EE as there are more undead around. Meleeing the demons tends to use too much mp. The vampires aren't so bad. Though I haven't checked FotD for herb/pots yet.
The mobs in the Garden of Beasts are 1/2hp, con yellow at 66, give ~4500 exp, take me 10-20 seconds to kill (depending if they stun me or not), and drop pots/herbs frequently, so I'm usually at full mp.
Fields of Massacre Doom Knights are good for 8-9k, but the lack of herbs/pots means I run out of mp. None of the high level undead drop pots/herbs. Some of the mobs in the area do drop pots/herbs but they are blue to me.
The edges of Blazing swamp, con red, drop herbs/pots, but only give 6-8k exp. You can get more exp from killing lt blues some where else. :/
Class Level
65 waersmith
Can they solo? sure/ sort of, only mobs that are 5-7 lvls lower and even still if you get aggro there is big chance of dying
If so what? 1-80
1-52 easy solo in any catacomb/52+ healers needed if you want to earn desent XP
Does it work at higher levels?
not for a dwarf
PvE what’s their job?
pole party but other classes can do better, i try an stun mobs when i can.. and i am a soul shot factory
Do their skills reflect that?
well i can craft :)..and i can stun thats about it for my useful skills
PvP what’s their job?
stun if possible and run away if you see anyone other than a melee character comming after you
Do their skills reflect that?
no, i think we should have sprint so i can run away faster
What are they lacking if anything?
well some pve skill would be nice, and i think the base stats could be amped a little, dwarfs are suppose to be a physically strong class because of no magic ability.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
i have no idea what the dev's think of the dwarf classes are we only suppose to lvl up to 61 so we can craft A grade stuff then reroll?? i will continue playing a dwarf only because i want to get a sub class.. but the grind for a dwarf now is atleast 5x harder than most classes unless you 2 box a SE
Can We Solo?
Pretty much yes but we always need to go back to town for SS and Arrows - without Cheapshot we are useless and usually have to solo on 1/2 hp mobs!
If So What? 1-80
1-52 is easy as a HE but after that partys are more needed.
52-80 needs healing or buffs!
PvE what is there job?
Massive damage dealing distant attacks! Criticals 24.7 :)
Do There skills reflect that?
Totally - our skills are totally amazing
PvP what is there job?
Owning is mostly everything sumed up! 9k crit with Double shot - OWNED TYRANT :)
Do There Skills Reflect that?
yes hawkeye is very well built for PvP
What are they lacking off?
Less SS weapons, longer lasting run skill, compressed Arrow Packages (still not implened)
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played?
well i dont have a clue what they wanted but i belive yes! we need little more twitches and we will RULE!
Still buffers are needed and i wish i had one! anyone got one on Lionna i can use xDXD
Class / Level
Overlord / L61 - Character created in Chronicle 2
Can they solo?
Yes - Far to often in fact.
if so what?
1x HP or lower non group mobs, in areas where Herbs drop and there is little Aggro, Social, ranged, magic, or skill (Shot) using mobs that don't run or summon more mobs.
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes, but it's very slow, relies heavily on finding a 'safe' place to hunt and having enough to have two decent sets of gear. (Robes/heavy AND a good melee weapon.)
PvE what's their Job?
Debuffer, Buffer, Healer and Crowd Controller.
Do their Skills reflect that?
Only in the developers minds.
[Debuffs] The extremely short range and high MP cost make these inefficient. (Plus no added damage when using shots when using poison/flame DoT's) This is without counting the low land rates and almost completely ignorable effects, including their low (shortened) durations. With all the AoE nerfs, there really is no need for most of our Seals either, as there simply isn't the kind of AoE still being done that would truly benefit from our (few) skills. And even when there was, an extra AoE nuker did far more than our skills could ever hope to do.
Most are just generic. We lack any of the crucial melee buffs (Haste/Focus/Death Whisper/VR) and a Prophet/SE can provide all of the crucial mage buffs but one each. (At least until L77 when we get empower.) We don't get Wild Magic either, but that isn't as needed as the others.
[Heals] Heart of Paagrio is a decent HP recovery skill, but it costs a ton of MP and as such really can't replace a real healer. The same can be said about our CP recovery skills as well. (You can pretty much buy both our heals in bottles.)
[Crowd Controller] With the previous nerf to other classes sleep spells, ours is now the best 'true sleep' available. Seal of Binding (AoE root) has landing issues due to low INT/Matk, but works reasonable well for PvE. MP is still a big issue however. None of which changes the fact that 'crowd control' really isn't an issue if you have a party with half a brain between the tanks/dd and the healer.
PvP whats their Job?
As of the last round of nerfs to our Drain, HP/CP Batteries and every so often a round of buffs.
Do their skills reflect that?
For 2 minutes out of every 20, yes. The rest of the time is spent sitting down regenerating MP or Dead. The rest of the time, people are going to be getting their Buffs and HP/CP from either another <single target> buffer/buffbot or from a potion, elxier or scroll. Damage in pvp is too 'bursty' to prevent anyone from dying, so what we have is pretty much limited to 'topping' people off between attack waves. Seals don't land often enough, and are usually just a friendly way of telling the opposing side "Here I am, Please Kill me now that I am in range."
What are they lacking if anything?
Level 1 & 2 of our L77 buffs, at least one more 'melee oriented' buff. (Haste/VR/Focus) And above all MP REGENERATION!!!!
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played?
As far as I can tell, the Developers don't even think about how players will actually use or abuse their characters before applying their changes all willy-nilly.
What differences?
I'm not sure what this question was asking...but here goes.
The developers need to stop balancing the game for the Olympiad and start balancing it for sieges!.
(Or other non-idealized, "real world" pvp situatuations.)
Can they solo?
yes, but at great cost - we pay lots for hp pots (couple thousand/day) or for golem+pet shots. either way we loose our economical advantage when soloing.
If so what? 1-80
1-50 - catas
50-60 - 1/2 hp green/light blue mobs
Does it work at higher levels?
still works at 60, although the man who invented 1/2 hp group mobs with stun should die in pain
PvE what's their job?
in PVE we're decent blunt DD's with an occasional stun or good pole DD's. in long PVE sessions DD skills don't matter that much, only raw power which we have.
Do their skills reflect that?
what skills?
PvP what's their job?
to roleplay elders or children and scream for mercy :)
well, it's not that bad, but we're definitely at the bottom of PVP food chain.
Do their skills reflect that?
what skills?
What are they lacking if anything?
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I think developers wanted to make a class that has some money making abilities (but not as much as BH) and also has a key role in sieges.
Our money making abilities are a disaster:
- we need years to earn back what we lost when registering most valuable recipes,
- craft store prices are not regulated by anything, dwarves take their prices from the sky and can undercut each other to ridiculously low amount,
- less and less people nead gear now and it's getting very hard to sell anything, especially lower gear, all this is due to very low amount of new players, less people subclassing (due to harder raid bosses), market spoiling events, clan armor, in interlude projected weapons, ... you can make more cash with common craft store sometimes. we need moneymaking skills that provide constant income like repair or some boost for money from PVE/PVP activities.
- even if we had money, the better equipment we could have will never be enough to compete with other classes skills. also, armors are seriously underpowered to weapons and they are alot harder to enchant. you need 1 weapon to make good damage but lots of parts of armor to have poor defense.
- even if we had the money we can spend it all on golems, they cost way too much.
- our key role in sieges is nonexistant, i don't think this new frog will change that. siege summons cast too slow and do not pay back for what they do. also, sieges are rare. there should be more activities where siege weaponry is allowed.
- the difference between blunts and swords in damage (due to double crit rate) is way too big and the accuracy difference is meaningless, especially with buffs.
- it's very hard to get back aggro from our mechanical golem and we can't heal him. we have to be careful which slows down soloing or we use more crystals because of constant resummoning.
- our crafting skills upgrades end at 2d class. the 3rd class is not rewarding at all and only makes us more gimp in comparison to other classes. basically, 2nd class skills represent our role of warrior/summoner/crafter hybrid, 3rd class skills represent our role of a gimped warrior.
If so what? 1-80
1-30 Using windstrike;
30-50 Using disrupt undead and HP+-duals
50-? No
Does it work at higher levels?
Well my main work is to sit/heal/buff in a duo party in the catacombs, and I have found satisfaction in manoring in the same time, but that only works if the partner wants to give up the drops. So for a live player that don’t get bored doing almost nothing then yes it works!
PvE what’s their job?
Sit/heal and buff that’s it.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
PvP what’s their job?
Sit/heal/root/erase and buff that’s it.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
What are they lacking if anything?
A chance to be give some damage in the higher lvls, maybe a counterpart to EE might of heaven aka might of darkness/hell that gives damage holy monsters.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I really dont know how the developers intend this class to be played as an invidual. This is a support class that is great working alone with a 2 class, but it lacks the fundamental tools to do something on your own after lvl 50.
if so what?
i don't remember my low lvls (2 years and half to be 77...), but to lvl 60 :
always on mobs HPx1 and blue (not even green)
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40-75 : even without buffs, you can solo to 75, herbs help so much
Does it work at higher levels?
No
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yes
PvE what's their Job?
spoil
get aggro sometimes
pole AoE party & spoil festival
useless on RB, useless on festival, useless on farming events
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nuke
silence
slow (on RB)
usefull on RB, usefull on festival, usefull on farming events
Do their Skills reflect that?
for the spoil : yes, BUT it's not an economic ability for ourselves.
to keep aggro : no, all others classes do too much damages
nice in pole party for pole masteries, but spoil festival is useless because you can't target the dead mob in the mass of mobs.
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yes of all
PvP whats their Job?
no job on pvp. not even meatball, even 1vs1
useless in siege, useless in large pvp, useless in 1vs1
i see that in olympiad :
range > melee
magical characters > BH
orcs > BH
tanks > BH
even WS > BH (WS have a summon)
what it left ? BD and SwS... and even versus the twice classes, i'm not sure i win...
(i do a test on my FS77 with a friend SH61 in arena : he killed me with being hit... no magic crits, all of us full buffed)
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silence
do lots amount of damages
Do their skills reflect that?
YES BH's skills reflect their uselessness : land rate of hammer crush, armor crush are near to 0
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yes
What are they lacking if anything?
a range skill (BH are one the classes without range skill)
spoil effect in pvp (don't talk about DoT with OE'd spoil, it's never land)
a real pvp skill
a real economic skill for ourselves (not the whole party)
dorfs have no deal for magical skills, so magical skill may not be so destructor on them : i have tateossian set, and still have an elpy's M.Def
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well i think SH is the fastest class to lvl up, i done more adenas on pve than my FS between lvl40 and 75, funny in pvp, so SH are fine.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played?
did the developers do it? i mean, did they really think about BH and dwarves?
No skills, much diverted nerfs (manor system, share spoils)
and by the way, the much more BH used as sell shops (dwarven fighter lvl1 is enough) and bots train than BH really played.
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I really dunno how dev's thought this class.
What differences?
BH are done to earn more money than others : they can't
BH are done to be the worth class in pvp : yes it is.
BHJ are strong : yes, but we are hitting like an elpy (even with a blunt on mobs with "weak to blunt weapon")
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dunno
Can they solo?
As someone said, every class can solo but effectivness is different. Prophet can solo till like 70-75 at some location it slow but acceptable rate with very good equip.
If so what? 1-80
Low dmg, undead or nuker mobs with low evasion and pdef :)
Does it work at higher levels?
No, since 3rd class you cant hunt in FoTD and thats the last acceptable soloarea for proph. Making soloing for highlvl porphs would be nice, so i dont have to sit in town or play subs while LFG.
PvE what’s their job?
Buff buff and buff, eventauly help with healing or do some minor dmg.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes and no, Our skills are quite fine (except PoF vs. CoV), problem is that those skills are easily "exploitable" with 2boxed buffers, oop buffers.
PvP what’s their job?
Should be to buff ppl, eventualy root, block shield/ww, manaburn.
Do their skills reflect that?
Buffing group takes 5minutes, so the group has 5minutes less to pvp than with other buffers. If we buff, there is no mp available for root/blocks/burn. Prophet prophecy skill is propably the worst pvp prophecy totaly uncomparable to power and usability of CoV. Root doesnt land at highlvls cuz of MA4, antiroot passive skill at 76, and huge amount of antiroot bossjewelery. Block shield and ww dont make difference in bigger PvP. Manaburn is not useful in so short and fast PvP with all the huge dmg around.
What are they lacking if anything?
Mp management skills (MP VR, BtM, invocation in interlude any of thouse or something like that would help)
Prophecy skill which would be adequate to our class which was always meant to be best and pure buffer.
Skills which would make in party/live prophets worth instead of 2boxes and oop buffers.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
As stated before. Noone plays live prophets. 95% of prophet population are 2boxes/oop prophets/buffbots. Those live prophets who still play are frustrated and complaining for a reason. We are not support class anymore, cuz we have to get supported by freinds/clans to get parties etc.
Can they solo?
Yes. You are a tank with a DD in party with the cat. Although at higher lvls the cost of having the cat out on C Crystals and shots makes it too expensive.
If so what? 1-80
1-40 Like any other melee
40-48 Around Hunters killing lizards and orcs
49-56 Enchanted Valley (Low part then high part)
57-62~ Forsaken Plains (all mobs)
Does it work at higher levels?
With out herbs, the inability to heal or buff our summon makes it impossible to use it safely on aoe mobs (stun-poison-poles). The ever higher costs in C crystals + pet shots + own shots + buff/heal pots makes it really impossible to solo and break even on adena. It's either loose money and lvl solo or get a party and let the summon rest.
PvE what’s their job?
Tank for your pet and let him do the damage.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes. With hate, hate aura, melee root, shield stun we can control the mob while the cat hits.
PvP what’s their job?
Tank. Draw attention from archers and nukers with hate or hate aura to let the DD get in range. Root an archer now and then and shield stun if we get in range (best stun in game). Not really a big use for the cat on mass pvp.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes, we get all the tank skills necessary to do the job.
What are they lacking if anything?
A way to heal/buff our cat, it could be like an inversed "transfer pain" or "sacrifice" like paladins but only for servitors. A boost on "Life Scavenge"...it's a great skill but with so little INT and the addition of herbs. Healing only for 180 HP it's just ridiculous.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Being a mix of DD and tank, we are not either true tanks nor true DD so we do not excel at any job. I really don't understand what the developers expect from us...to tank or to DD.
Depending on your Armor-Weapon (SA)-Dyes (not very popular) you can choose to be a tank or a LDD (Low Damage Dealer)...if you are stuck in the middle, it's really difficult to manage the char.
Can they solo:
aoe, no
single target, painfully slow
If so what? 1-80:
1-30 AOE with healing pots is highly effective. 30-40 still possible. 40-45 depending on mobs it is possible
single target 1-40 very possible, just slower. 40+ painful and slow.
does it work at higher lvls:
ill get back to u on that :P
Pve role?:
gather huge groups of mobs and kill them all at once.
skills relate?:
hell ya, only pole class with AOE stun, decent self buffs make it easier and more effective.
pvp role:
take damage from multiple enemies and damage multipule targets
skills reflect:
do a degree, damage from whirlwind/thunderstorm is fairly low, as is most warrior skills (compaired to daggers/archers/nukers)
but thats improved in interlude, lack m.def and speed so generally in mass pvp u don't go far, majority of players on a seige feild are generally ranged classes.
lacking?:
ability to solo single mobs, polearms lower accrucy makes it slow to kill a single monster. focus attack which is suppose to enable us to do this is messed up, u can't keep the buff up since it only lasts 2 minutes at takes 5 to recharge unbuffed. (3 minutes buffed) also lacking single target skills. aoe skills use to much MP to use during single target solo, even 1 single target skill would be nice. (with higher damage then aoe skills)
if a WL could keep focus attack active all the time, and had a single target skill soloing would be very possible and give us a chance against ranged classes during pvp.
and had a single target skill soloing would be very possible and give us a chance against ranged classes during pvp.
WL needs something that takes away range. like a silence that hates at the same time.
One of the most limiting things is trying to find a spot to lvl with a WL, most places after 60 have mage mobs those making it hard to find a spot to pull mobs from to lvl (witches, devotion etc).
it wouldn't need to last long. like 15 seconds. but NEEDS (has) to work in PvP also.
another idea that might fit well is a ranged single target skill that removes target, 600 range mabey a bit like glads sonic blaster, (look wise at lest :P ) similar power, it would still be weaker since we can't charge (not that it need them either)
In a nuker setup? Probably better than tanks, and definitely better than dwarves. You don't play an EE to solo, though.
If so what? 1-80
Nuker setup till 25, melee setup till 40, nuker setup (on undeads) since then. But if you cannot find groups, you've chosen the wrong class.
Does it work at higher levels?
There are regular whines from some other classes how good EEs are in soloing highlevel areas. So it probably works.
You're still better to group.
PvE what’s their job?
A bit of everything, especially on undeads (lack of AoE DD skills, though). The most universal class in the game. But healing is the best you can do.
Do their skills reflect that?
Well, sorta. Their stats reflect that much more, though (love my -10 Str tattoo :D).
PvP what’s their job?
To tank, to rez, to recall. Sometimes debuffs (chain-trance, for instance) work OK too. Heal is PvP Hate.
And to do some diplomacy... well, you ought to have some diplomacy skills if you have managed to level on an EE so far.
Do their skills reflect that?
Well, sorta. Probably the developers expected that EEs in PvP would heal others... dunno. I wasn't at sieges yet.
What are they lacking if anything?
Peolpe call them "defensive buffers"... well, they don't even have Mental Barrier. Agility is a joke, Resist Shock in PvE is a joke, BtB is available only as an SA (getting an use to Decrease Weight buff?).
Clarity 1? Considering its effect, it should be a lvl 40 buff, not lvl 58. It could be made a lvl 7 buff as well, it won't make any difference as it is practically useless for lowlevel toons and doesn't provide considerable benefits for highlevel ones.
Tanking in PvP... well, if the healers are supposed to tank, give us shield masteries and Aegis, please :D
Clear Mind, please. There should be no reason for an EE to sit when their group fights.
Someone in the game have to get anti-crit buffs. Why not EEs?
And to complete their "jack of all trades" image, give them an AoE nuke against undeads, starting at lvl 48 or so :p
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I have no idea how the developers see the character being played, especially pre-56.
Yes they can. in my opinion all classes exept for maybe summoners solo very slow without buffs, this is not different for Silver Rangers. With Focus, Death Whisper and Haste their soloing speed is greatly increased.
They can solo without buffs, however this is slow, But they are still probably with the exeption of Necro,SH and summoners the best soloers selfbuffed.
If so what? 1-80
Best thing to solo would be green/white mobs 1x hp.
With buffs maybe up to yellow mobs and even 2-3x hp, however green mobs always best cause then you will feel your evasion and critical rate best.
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes however after 73 (beastfarm becomes blue) you will probably need buffs. (Not sure exactly how good you can solo with the new herbs they might be good enough)
PvE what’s their job?
Solo: Kite things til they die.
Party: Crit things til they die.
Do their skills reflect that?
For soloing yes they have some nioce skills to boost their runspeed.
For party not really cause their mp is best used at just shooting and buffing Rapid Shot every 20 min.
PvP what’s their job?
Depends on the amount of buffs they have pumped into them. With more buffs (mainly critical boosting) their job becomes more and more to just target/assist and crit things to death with amazing power.
With less buffs their stunshot becomes more and more important and vs. melle fighters kiting is important.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes stunshot and the skills who decrease its reuse time is amazing, and doubleshot, UE and their self buffs are very nice.
What are they lacking if anything?
Wish we would have gotten the Body to mind skill that our conterpart archers got in c5, cause this would make us much less dependant on a cheapshot bow.
Other then that i think we are good
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Not sure how the devs belived we would be played, but they dident realise how powerfull we would be with the best gear we could get...
Not only does this thread provide detailed information for the team, it can be a great resource for a new player who might want to hear firsthand about playing a specific class. Thank you to everyone who has posted, and to Demon_Knight for starting the thread.
By my count, here are the classes who have not yet posted -- so if you play one of the following classes, it would be helpful if you'd like to share your insights as well. :)
Yes they can, but i can see needing buffs higher up to be able to do so.
If so what? 1-80
Best thing would be 1X mobs since you need a high kill rate to get as many herbs as possible.
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes but i can see needing buffs higher up
PvE what’s their job?
Kill things and use the correct totems for dooing so.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes
PvP what’s their job?
Kill soft targets and stun people i guess.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes.
What are they lacking if anything?
Maybe giving fists same crit/hit as swords instead of blunt.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Not many play tyrant since they are bad at low lvl and because people want a stronger char like Archer/Nuker.
At 42 i could still solo, but it was starting to get harder and harder, and buffs for a such low damage class is very needed to be able to hunt well.
If so what? 1-80
Well, 1X mobs but the problem is still that a class that can take damage will not be able to deal any, and thus it will get harder and harder the higher level you get no matter what weapon.
Does it work at higher levels?
No, i can't see it working like it should at a higher level. Can't say exactly when, but i think that it the end you will not be able to kill your mobs quick enough.
PvE what’s their job?
Take damage and keep mobs on them.
Do their skills reflect that?
To some extent yes, he has skills to keep the mobs on him and such, but other than that you have nothing else to play with.
PvP what’s their job?
Run in first trying to arrest/hate the other teams players.
Do their skills reflect that?
To some extent yes, but there is still alot lacking in this division.
What are they lacking if anything?
Active skills to be able to use for damage, a shield stun for elven knights, or at least some shield attack/special block to be able to use. The ability to activate the heal cubic for emergencies, or even the ability to give the cubics beast shots. Maybe an ability that at 30% would give you back 30% of your life for 5 seconds and then remove it as soon as the 5 seconds where over (and if life goes under 0 life will be 1 after this) . Basically some active skills so that you can do something in PVe/PVP when you are soloing or hunting.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Very few people play Temple Knights because it has all the good defensive benefits that a tank needs, but no good offensive benefits at all. And also because the cubics are laughable at best. And because it is the tank with the least ammount of active skills, and thusly all it can do is autoattack most of the time. Something really needs to be done to this class to make it a fun class to play.
if you got a buffpet yes if you masocistic you can even solo over 5x from what i heard it is maybe worth it now with beastfarm tho (was to high for it when they introduced it so dunno)
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yes prolly even unbuffed in lower lvls was easy with ch buffs for sure in higher lvls you need a buff pet id say but its still decent
68+ id recomend duo with prophets for fure tho you can duo in cata combs and pretty much any openfield area around your lvl or a lil higher without problems but you should use bison for the kill speed then you can duo easyly till 78 id guess (or solo with buffpet)
Does it work at higher levels?
read above
PvE what’s their job?
spoil stuff for other ppl (just dont think you gonna get the good stuff for you self tho there seems to be some unwritten spoil rule if something good spoils the spoiler doesnt get it)
BH/FS role is pretty much to be the one getting alot of the stuff needed for crafting to keep clan and economy going
supposendly dorfs should also be able to tank or dd
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kill things and do it fast
Do their skills reflect that?
not really they have spoils and spoils can somewhen be the faster method of getting stuff but often and especially for keymats there other ways alot more effective
not to talk about basemats here
spoil was nerfed beyond usefull ness back in the day you could support clan needs for materials keymats and recipes but that got changed with alot stuff basicly you miss items cuz of spoilshare the spoil amount of mats got nerfed and the spoiltable is pretty reiculus i (i can spoil a armor stuff at 6x mobs and not higher ones but i can go spoil b keymats at 7x mobs)
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yes tyrants are great dds and have the potential to deal one of the highest continious dps in game
PvP what’s their job?
stun ppl and try to take hits instead your party members
even tho dorfs fall under meele dd theres really nothing of the dd part
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kill soft targets
run down archers/fleeing targets
adept to changing situations
Do their skills reflect that?
they do have the stuns but these tend to get rather useless in endgame since most preferd stun targets (healers) are mostly in anti stun armor and if your unlucky anti stun jewels aswell and stun is besides hp the only thing a dorf got in pvp
and for taking dmg and for their partymembers there lacks some kind of skill to get targetet in pvp also the defensive stances should be improved cuz the penalitys are bad comparing it to the gain (i do understand that the stances cannot be improved since other warrios who are mostly alot stronger have them too but there should be some selfbuff that lets us use stances better)
if you wanna see dwarf as dd in pvp they should get either a damage skill or a slow skill since as it is now dwarfs are slower then nearly any other class and cannot do any good spike damage
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yes high damage skills very versatile and with the right totem up one of the fastest chars in game
What are they lacking if anything?
alot
spoiltables should be reworked so there is normal materials still spoilable in higher lvls or advanced materials should be spoilable like in manor so that manor is not so much more efficent then spoiling
raidbosses should not drop keymaterials or should be spoilable
woot my class description says i can get stuff from the great dragons /spoil valakas *charaters are not spoilable*
poilshare should be reworked in some way so you end up with alot more of your spoils at least 1/2 or 1/3 since we lack any kind of pvp ability for having superior money making ability so id like to see something of that moneymaking ability
for pvp there should be some kind of slow/root skill or a way to do trasfer pain for partymembers or something maybe even consider making stun usefull again
after 76 id wish that a for pvp overenchantet spoil would actually land at +9 or so id like at least 20% landrate in pvp on spoil so there might be a chance in olympiad
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tyrants are pretty well balanced (im not 78 yet so cant say much bout how its then) as it is with the skills there come id be temptet to call em a bit too strong but if we look at current archers and nukers then theres no way talking bout that till archers are fixed and nuker crits
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
i do not know what developers intended but im pretty sure that nothing what goes on the servers atm was intended by the developers
as long theres farmers/bots/ebay its highly unlikely tho that dorfs can ever have the role that was intended and i also think that with spoilshare and craft shops didnt really help the dorfs to fullfill their role (spoilshare was an unneded nerf so we get partys but from what i understood dorfs were clan supportchars so there was no need to fix partying cuz dorfs got clangrps since the clan wantet em high if not they were in the wrong clan)
for tyrants i dunno really what developers intend them to be tyrants used to be archer killers and were good at it but with the pvp revamp they seem to be forced in a role which they dont really fit (yes tyrant can kill tanks but if you look at the skills theyd fit better going for lightly armored fast targets)
if this should be help for newbie then to sum up
id strongly suggest to not to start a dwarf especially if you like pvp or intend to take part in olympiad at some point
tyrant on the other hand is a very nice and versatile meele dd thats fun to play and got quite some skills to mess around with
I posted a swordsinger write-up above. I think Mistryl has me on ignore after all the rude things I have to say about Gameguard. Anyway, here's another.
Class Level: Spellsinger 49
Can they solo? Yep
If so what? 1-80. Anything 1x, undead are slightly preferred.
Does it work at higher levels? Appears to. Had a clannie that soloed to 76, no problem.
PvE what’s their job? Killing stuff very fast.
Do their skills reflect that? Yep.
PvP what’s their job? Killing people very fast.
Do their skills reflect that? Yep.
What are they lacking if anything? Mostly mana skills. The mp regen buff is nice, but its not enough to equal the skills that the other nukers get. Overall therefore, their levelling is slower than the other nukers unless you have a 2-box recharger.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences? I imagine so. Although with the nerf of sleep/sleep cloud and cancel, the spellsingers are left with little but raw damage to contribute now and without a recharger, they're left dry and useless before the other nukers are. Still, they can be brutally effective over very short periods of time.
Is there any chance this thread might make it to Korea, so devs there see what players here on the NA servers think about the classes? Not that I really have that much hope it would change anything, but maybe it might give them something to think about.
Warlocks (and summoners) are one of the better if not best soloing class out there. With the recent change of hp/mp/buff pots dropped from NPC’s now effecting the summoners pet along with the summoner itself has made it very nice to solo. Having an outside buffer, or a buffer friend makes it go a lot faster. So I say warlocks shine when it comes to a solo/duo setup.
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes, but the cost/weight of Beast SS, Cost of Crystals for pet and cubic’s makes a summoner very very very expensive. Having a mule toon to bring you supplies is also a must. Pets go through Beast SS and the weight can be a burden when trying to solo/duo for long periods of time. Also at higher levels you will want to stick with red ½ HP or light red 1x HP mobs for solo, and white/green 2x hp mobs with an outside buffer or buffer friend once you reach 75+.
PvE what’s their job?
DD/Tank OR High Crit rate/dmg groups buffer.
Do their skills reflect that?
Its all about the summoners Pet in PvE. Warlocks have two kinds of pets for PvE, one is a DD/Tank (Kai the cat) and the other is a Group buffer for high crit based groups such as archers and daggers (Queen of Cat). Side note: Mew the cat is mainly for PvP and Kat the cat is not very useful past 61, I personally would not waste the SP on Kat after 52.
PvP what’s their job?
Group:
The best way to use a Warlock in PvP is to combine it with a High Crit rate/dmg group such as an archer or dagger group.
Solo:
In 1v1 PvP Warlocks play buffer/healer to there DD/Tank Pets.
Do their skills reflect that?
Group:
Queen of Cat, the blessing of queen is what makes archer groups so powerful.
Solo:
Warlocks have the best heals for there pets in the game, and some good self buffs for their pets. The para cubic is perfect to use when in 1v1 combat. The storm cubic is lacking a lot, and personally I think it should be a fire based cubic so you can use mass surrender to fire skill that they get.
What are they lacking if anything?
Group Versatility, Warlocks are great in Archer/Dagger groups where crit rate/dmg is a bonus, but that’s about it. I think more types of Queen buffs are needed to round out the warlocks grouping value in non Archer groups.
Summoners’ pet needs to be able to be affected by Alliance Overlord buffs, Store bought pots, Buff scrolls, clan hall buffs, and craftable elixirs that were introduced in C5.
Summoners’ pet also needs the 24 buff slot option as they are always getting over buffed.
Kat the Cat needs to be reworked as to be useful at higher levels, maybe allow it to recharge others as well as the summoner.
The storm cubic needs to be replaced with a fire based attack cubic so the skill mass surrender to fire is useful. Also change the Mass summon Storm cubic to fire based as well.
Cost, Warlocks (summoners in general) are very expensive to play and if you are not well funded can be very tough to play for the life of the class. Crystal cost and Beast SS adds up a lot, reducing the amount used maybe something to look at.
If so what? 1-80 solo easy to 52... gludin,dion,deathpass,cruma tower
52-66 not bad in non physical resist catacombs, needs help from buffs and very good duo with wc
66-80 very hard. no physical resist mobs, and if there soloable the xp sucks
Does it work at higher levels?not bad, is getting better with the c5 tibunal and extra skills
PvE what’s their job? tank take hits from mobs. problem is we have to solo cuz NO ONE wants more than 1 tank in their group. we are not considered dd's so we aree never taken... but when they need a raid boss killed, they cant do it without us
Do their skills reflect that?somewhat but its getting better with the c5 skills
PvP what’s their job? DIE...DIE...DIE AGAIN!!!!!!!
Do their skills reflect that?absolutely we go inthere blow ud and die trying to take the heat for every one else lol its a blast... if i dont die 10 times a seige its not been a good seige
What are they lacking if anything? more chosces for armour... us tanks get murdered on the armour.. its always the most expensive on the market
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences? in pvp yes. in pve never lol i run around in tallum to get more attk, for raid bosses we play the same but we have to be creative to level paladins
Group Versatility, Warlocks are great in Archer/Dagger groups where crit rate/dmg is a bonus, but that’s about it. I think more types of Queen buffs are needed to round out the warlocks grouping value in non Archer groups.
I'd agree that they are limited, but what about the PS?
Summoners’ pet needs to be able to be affected by Alliance Overlord buffs, Store bought pots, Buff scrolls, clan hall buffs, and craftable elixirs that were introduced in C5.
Thats so true. Which needs to be applied to all other classes that own pets (DA, WS, necro..etc).
Summoners’ pet also needs the 24 buff slot option as they are always getting over buffed.
What applies to the summoner should apply to the Summon. IE: tattoos, HP pots, buffs so on.
Kat the Cat needs to be reworked as to be useful at higher levels, maybe allow it to recharge others as well as the summoner.
when I played my Necro I never used kat the cat, maybe once in a blue moon, but I didn't see the usefulness. I can't disagree with this, I think thats a sound idea. would help WK get more parties.
The storm cubic needs to be replaced with a fire based attack cubic so the skill mass surrender to fire is useful. Also change the Mass summon Storm cubic to fire based as well.
I agree, never understood why they added a mass surrender to fire to WK when WK's never party with Scor, and don't get any kind of fire nukes.and have no real benefit to help Mages, thats ES job. (last fire nuke at 35, flame strike)
Cost, Warlocks (summoners in general) are very expensive to play and if you are not well funded can be very tough to play for the life of the class. Crystal cost and Beast SS adds up a lot, reducing the amount used maybe something to look at.
all summoners are over priced, Specially Necro (from my stand point). there is no way you can carry the mount of Beast SS needed for long PvE fights. not even counting the fact that you can't craft Beast SS, you can only buy at NPC cost which is effected by Castle taxes. same goes for the mount of Beast SS these summons use.
Summons need to be different, cost more up front but cost less down the road. IE: at lvl 40 sould cost 5 Bst SS per hit, but at 74 should cost 2 or 1 Bst SS per hit. which would slove alot of these prolonged PvE times at higher lvls. (it already takes like a month to lvl 77-78)
Another Down fall- When a summon dies, Auto Beast SS shuts off, so you have to reactivate it every time you resummon. Beast SS should stay on unless you unactivate it. very annoying if your in the middle of open field fight to resummon and then have to turn it back on.
PS is very versitile, i'd say that a bishop equivalent heal is more general than a crit buff. Also why would a necro use Kat? There's no reason for that comparison. The pet's main ability is useless by lvl 50.
All summoners got the mass surrender relevant to their race, i got wind even though my pet elements are dark, poison and fire. ES is the only got one relevent to themselves. Even as it is the skill is pointless because it's landrate is terrible making it not worth the spirit ore it costs.
Beast SS prices are great actually, much cheaper for me to use than if i had to buy shots of my grade for myself. They SHOULD be more expensive at higher levels. A high level summoner makes good money, more than they spend and high SS costs at low level woudl be horibly detrimental to newer players and strongly favor those who already reached high levels.
At the Lower lvls they can solo the best "solo" meaning no oop buff boxes. As these boxes become more and more common their percieved solo ability goes down
Does it work at higher levels?
They Can however, soloing and partying are completly different armor sets. With the Current market as it is people are lucking to have 1 armor set and maybe the 2 weaps required for this class.
Excluding that, they are good soloer's in the right gear
PvE what’s their job?
A wide range of support roles
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes they have a good assorment of buffs, heals, drains. Many different play styles to support the party.
PvP what’s their job?
Support again, mainly buff.
Do their skills reflect that?
Somewhat,
The ability To buff a party fast is good. But pvp is too fast for them to do much more. In c4 and below they could assit DD for the rest of the Time. Now with spammable CP pots in C5 its almost not worth it to assit in any DD'ing as they will soon run out of mana killing 1 person and be unable to support the part anymore.
While I believe the Skill setup is well and balanced I believe another look needs to be taken at the cp pots.
What are they lacking if anything?
1) in pvp or seiges for both the Prophet and WC I believe a lower version of the noble buff should be enacted. both classes Spend all their mp trying to keep people buffed and the wc in particular spends all its mp trying to rebuff 1 person who died.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
PS is very versitile, i'd say that a bishop equivalent heal is more general than a crit buff. Also why would a necro use Kat? There's no reason for that comparison. The pet's main ability is useless by lvl 50.
Necro starts at lvl 40 btw.
Kat could be useful uptill 48 maybe 52, then it's worthless.
What I was saying I never cared for my summons as a lvling means.
The thing is to use Kat to regen your mp, then unsummon it, I didnt' realize or think about it way back in C2 while my necro was still in it's 40's. even tho I had BtM for MP regen, Kat comes in handy sometimes. like raids.
I didn't mean any thing about it from 60+, thats not what I was talking about. sorry if you where confused.
Can they solo?
Yes, but like all classes need out side buffer to be effective (SE, PP).
If so what? 1-80
1-75. after that there is no place to solo at.
Does it work at higher levels?
Not so much after 75, the mobs become much stronger, 2x-5X Hp types. so you need a partner to help mitigate MP management with kill speed. It's like this for all classes!
PvE what’s their job?
Kill with expensive nukes. maybe summon Kat the cat from 40 up till 52 for a lil extra mp regen (every 20 minutes). summons aren't worth using in PvE, too expensive to matian.
Do their skills reflect that?
yeah sure w/e. Necro has a ton of skills. some of which aren't worth the SP spent to lvl, or the money spent to buy the SB's for the skill. curse discord is a good example.
PvP what’s their job?
PvP Necro shines at 61+, with their summons and TP they can tank and dish out a ton of dmg (shield 1 handed mage weapon), only mitigated recently by the addition of resist unholy and the use of SwS.
Do their skills reflect that?
Well, Necro has a ton of skills, but alot of those skills aren't usable in PvP (curse discord, weakness, fear, chaos, and a few other things). some skills Effects are too weak, and won't make a difference one way or the other. Or PvP is too fast, and those skills wont matter.
What are they lacking if anything?
Well the Cost of playing a Necro is crazy (Bsps, cursed bones, beast SS, D crys, C crys, summon cursed bones), Need a WS craftable recipe for cursed bones. so they don't have to relay on the Castle (taxes) for much Need C bones. Need a secondary nuke thats not dark type that starts at 52 and up. Necro can't lvl in catas because they have dark resist, and out side of curse death link, Can't raid on more then half the upper Raid bosses because they are dark resist. also being that Necro's only have vamp claw (dark type), death spike (dark type), CDL (dark type), even tho they are a dark type class, they truly need something else!(for heavens sake Scors to plz!!) Need to up the Land rate of debuffs, and their effects, cast time. need to make all skills workable in PvP!
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
Not in NA thats for sure!!
They need a more defined role, half mage/half summoner. yes they are a great mage/tank in PvP, but out side of pvp being a pure solo class with limited nukes (being only dark type), and being so expensive, I begin to wander why any one should ever roll the class!
According to NCsoft's Battle tournament last year they classified Necro as Summoner type, but NA/euro play style makes them Nuker in PvE, Nuker/summoner/tank in PvP.
PS: sorry about before, I updated my post, and finished mostly what I needed to say about this class. out side of reaching 76 for their 3rd class and their long life in PvP, Necro is much too expensive of a class to be played full time unless it's Ebayed to supplement the cost of playing the class. (yes I know this goes agents EULA and all, or players likes, but this is the fact of this class, it's very expensive to keep afloat, sorry but it's the rotten truth!)
If this is going to be taken to the devs Ill just write up kind of a general consensus on what each class is missing from is core selection of skills
Healers-
Bishop- Severely lacking in the pve, needs an MP management type of skill to fix downtime OR a reason for people to party a bishop for pve that offers a benefit over the other healer/buffer classes(i would suggest, party members get a more extreme bonus from holy weapon from a bishop).
Elven Elders- This class is pretty well put together imo, the thing that is missing for EE is something to do while they sit regening mp(thats what they do for parties, heal recharge sit). IMO giving EE's a passive skill for regening mp while standing would make the class very rewarding, and they would be able to use their other skills like windshackle or might of heaven Pve wise. (the skill could be called Calm of Eva, +5mp per tick while standing still).
Shillen Elders- This class is very poorly designed. It is alright that they can buff some very useful buffs, but to give those buffs to other classes and the other classes buff more efficiently is kind of a stake to the heart for SEs. What this class lacks is a darkelve skillset. IMO, what this class needs is a nuke, like vampiric claw so they can contribute to pve/pvp parties and have solo capability. Also, I would give them the same type of mp regen passive I mentioned for EE, except for SE's (mainly robe user) would be while sitting (since they arent much of a crowdcontrol char) skill could be called Resting Tempest.
Prophets- Prophets are a complete joke as a char option currently. NOBODY plays a prophet because it is a class option to play. My best suggestion for this class is to make them have dual weapon masteries on top of their weapon masteries (as they already get heavy armor masteries and offensive buffs) This would make them less of a burdon for clans to lvl (vs any normal DD char) and give them a role in pvp (stacked masteries = decent damage, similair to a gladiator minus the special moves). Prophets dont have as much of a problem with MP management with blesssoul6 and access to robes, giving them the invocation(interlude supposed skill??) would work perfect for them.
Warcryers- THis class is put together very well imo. The main flaws are with the ammount of "worthless" skills they have such as their DoTs, madness, chant of revenge which all could use some tweaks to actually make them useable skills. My suggestion Make chant of revenge reflect ranged moves at the same %, make madness cost only 10 mp and instant cast and land every time, and make their DoTs do MUCH larger amounts of damage (considering the ammount of MP needed for them, they should land everytime and do as much damage as a bsps Nuke imo).
Overlord- This class is too ally dependant. Ally buffs should have a different graphical look when applied, as MMO-wise its a pretty generic look if not outdated. I would recommend something similair to a BD's sword above its head, except use a orcish graphic for each buff. As for changes to this class, I would recommend better landrates on skills and better choices for gear for overlords in general, as the A grade selection doesnt fit very well on a class that is a CP battery for fights and also a debuffer (not enough mp for both tbh) I might recommend a Overlord-only armor set that has -20% mp usage on buffs/seals and +15% cast speed and -10 runspeed and make it a robeset/heavyset
Turn undead works best on mobs that con white or lower and lands at a low rate. Though the rate does improve the lower the mob is.
EE can easily nuke any undead, its just that Might of Heaven is not very mp efficient. If the undead were to drop herbs/pots, nuking them would be an effective way to level.
Seems I can easily solo the 1/2 hp mobs in the Garden of Beasts nonstop for 3% an hour. They should be good up to about 70.
Might be woth it to try fotd daytime. Early in on the magies should be doable. You dont have as much dmg and mdef as I do, but you got ressit dark to compensate for mdef and holy wearpon to kind of compensate dmg. You can stay there to at least 72 (then mobs start turning light blue).
I've been to the Forest of the Dead, night time is a little better for EE as there are more undead around. Meleeing the demons tends to use too much mp. The vampires aren't so bad. Though I haven't checked FotD for herb/pots yet.
The mobs in the Garden of Beasts are 1/2hp, con yellow at 66, give ~4500 exp, take me 10-20 seconds to kill (depending if they stun me or not), and drop pots/herbs frequently, so I'm usually at full mp.
Fields of Massacre Doom Knights are good for 8-9k, but the lack of herbs/pots means I run out of mp. None of the high level undead drop pots/herbs. Some of the mobs in the area do drop pots/herbs but they are blue to me.
The edges of Blazing swamp, con red, drop herbs/pots, but only give 6-8k exp. You can get more exp from killing lt blues some where else. :/
Spent some time in FotD, the mobs range from green to light red for a 66 EE. The exp is 6.2k - 13.3k. Hebs and pots drop at a good rate.
The Bone_xxx, Skull_xxx, and bats are soloable, but are best avoided. There are easier things to kill here.
Any of the undead are good to solo on, as this is one of the few places where the undead drop herbs/pots. Requim groups were ok as well, the behemoths are easily dropped and the Lord/Priest doesn't nuke too hard.
The Vampires, while being higher level than the the undead, are actually easier to melee due to their holy weakness and slow attack speed when windshackled.
Night is a very good time to solo there as there is a lot more undead and vampires around. Atrox are easy to solo as well. One intersting thing I noticed was that Vampire Warlords are worth 13.3k exp during the day, but only 9.1k at night. Vampire Magisters drop from 9.9k to 7.7k exp.
EE could use a holy attack spell that works on demon type mobs. That or make Might of Heaven and Turn Undead work on Undead and Demon types.
Edit: After trying out turn Undead for an extended period, it's not very useful. At a cost of 4 spirit ore you will loose money using it. On similar level mobs it lands about 33%. Of those more than half will cause fear, the rest will Leathal stike. A bit over half of the Leathal strikes also run away.
The Leathal strike rate is ok, but the landing rate for the fear effect should be higher give the spells high cost.
EE could use a holy attack spell that works on demon type mobs. That or make Might of Heaven and Turn Undead work on Undead and Demon types.
ppl keep saying this and my reply is make demon type mobs as dark mobs
noone is gonna complain that you are overpowered if you can use your holy nukes on demon mobs seriously
If so what? 1-80
I am going to pass the low level content since it has been changed a lot from Open Beta.
When properly buffed and geared they can solo like any other melee class. Soloing with PP bufs and VR can make you go non-stop xp. Selfbuffed solo it is hard to tell, I haven’t done this since C2. But with the dropping of herbs I don’t see why it isn’t possible. You can rely on your skills more since MP herbs drop so in the end it is doable.
From 70+ your place would be Forrest of the Death. It has great quests that give you SS money, XP and mats. Be sure to have a Tallum heavy set tho because most of the mobs have a nasty bleed and poison skills. Usually there is always a friendly buffer out there for you to ask buffs so it is nice.
Does it work at higher levels?
At 78 most of the mobs are green or light blue so I am guessing at 79 they all will be blue. Not sure what lvl the bugs are at wall of agros but I would assume that would be the best next solo place to be.
PvE what’s their job?
To deal damage and maybe be a meat shield tank. In the small parties I always was the “tank” and Main Assist. When hunting multiple HP mobs with a party its best to just use Vicious Stance IMO. Get a pair of nicely enchanted SLS/Tsu duals and let the crits do their job. Spamming skills all the time are not effective in parties.
Do their skills reflect that?
They got skills that could be used in PvE but the majority isn’t effective enough to be used. For example you could spend 100 mp on Triple Slash but the damage isn’t par with a fully buffed critical so it is basically useless. In the past spamming skills was also useless since you had to recharge all the way back again. Now days recharging is made faster so a Sonic Blaster now and then is actually good.
PvP what’s their job?
I would say to deal damage but the damage we do get overshadowed by what archers and mages can do at 900 range. We got high HP/CP and moderate defences so we are expected to be at the front lines. But in mass PvP its all about range, and more notable 900 range. We got ranged attacks but the 300 range we lack can be felt. However if I somehow manage to close the gap with my opponent I can deal enough damage to make him/her panic.
In 1 vs 1 PvP I can hold my own. That is when I am not slowed down. If I am then I will get kited or my opponent will run away.
Do their skills reflect that?
The skills we get really do help us in PvP but have a down side ill explain later. The new skills we getting in Interlude makes this even better so I am happy.
What are they lacking if anything?
I devided this section into few others as there are multiple things that I would like to see changed.
Duals
First of all I find it that the term Duals are lacking. For example they are basically 2 swords that are used at the same time yet Sword/blunt mastery doesn’t affect it where a class like a Destroyer gets Two handed weapon masteries that stack with sword/blunt masteries. They gain additional benefits from this passive such as more accuracy and a lot more Patk compared to us. There is no class other then mystic classes (because of the generic weapon mastery they get) that specialises in their first class in these weapons.
Make Sword/Blunt masteries stack with Dual Masteries as we do get them both.
Buffed vs Unbuffed PvP
In unbuffed PvP we seem to rock as shown in the Olympiad but in buffed PvP we don’t get the increase in fighting abilities like other classes get. Archers/daggers and mages fighting capabilities increase greatly while under effect of certain buffs but ours don’t. We can deliver attacks that do more damage but compared to what other classes can deal out full buffed ours is a joke.
Skill Enchants
Skill Enchant options are way to low for us. We get a lot of useful skills and yet we can’t enchant them. I can’t touch skills like Warcry, Duellist Spirit, Lionheart or War Frenzy.
Also the gained benefits from enchanting is lacking when we compare it to mages. I must enchant my skill 3 times to get 1 Skill level worth of power rating while mages only need to enchant 2 times. This is unfair because they get more for their spend XP/SP then others.
The new charge system
While the new charge system is a blessing on his own for my class it did bring some negative effects with it. Before C5 when a Sonic Skill was used it took all the Sonic charges you had. If you wanted to use another skill you had to recharge back fully again. Because you charged back from 0 charges the timer on the new charges got freshened. In C5 they changed it so each skill uses a set amount so you were left with spare amounts of charges. For example if you have 7 charges and you use Sonic Blaster you end up with 5 charges to use for other skills. This sounds good however if you recharge back to 7 again the timer doesn’t refreshes. Why is this bad? Every Gladiator tries to enter combat precharged to save time. Since your charges are on a timer and after a set amount of time (I believe its 10 min) they fade up like any other buff. Because you don’t use all your charges up when performing sonic skills in the new system you still have the old timer. This mostly leads that your charges fade mid fight and you are left their without. For a Gladiator his/her sonic chargers are equally important as MP.
My proposals are these 2 things:
1) Display Charges like how buffs are displayed. By this I mean you can see how much time your charges have and when there is less then 1 min time on them they start to blink. This will show people they need to be careful since their charges going to fade soon.
2) Make it so that every charge up you do refreshes the time on the already existing charges.
Last ditch skill
Most of the classes have a skill that can be used to save them from a potential death. Skills such as UD, UE, Revival, Frenzy, Guts etc. Gladiators lack a valid skill that could save them when such a situation comes. Only skill we get is Final Frenzy and this skill give like 100 Patk more if a certain HP threshold is reached. This increase WILL NOT save you while the skills mentioned above will.
Either make this skill a lot more effective then it’s currently is or give another skill.
Warcry
Warcry is a skill that raises our Patk. The first lvl of it we get in our warrior stage, like Battle Roar, and the second lvl we get early lvl 40's. When we get higher you dont get any new levels from this skill. We stopped learning Batle Roar unlike Warlords and they stop learning Warcry beyond the Warrior stage.
I would love to have more lvl's of Warcy like Warlords have more lvl's or Battle Roar.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
These are what the dev's think of my class:
None is better at one-on-one close combat than the Gladiator. Enemies attempt to avoid his powerful attacks in vain. The Gladiator displays his superior swordsmanship using the Sonic Storm or with two-bladed swords he implements the Triple Slash.
and for the Duelist:
Regarded as the most powerful swordsmen in one-on-one combat, Duelists prefer dual swords as their weapon of choice, and they overcome the enemy with storm-like swiftness. They do not wear heavy armor, as they have inherited the Gladiator mentality of regarding their attack as their best defense.
The first quote is some what true however it only is like that in an unbuffed situation. Buffed situation a gladiator isnt that fearfull. Also Gladiators become some what "fearing" in the end game. People who wants to play this class should stick untill the end or they wont see its fruits.
and about the Duelist all I can say I LOL. Not sure what they were smoking but they should pass some here.
Nothing about the Duelist is swift as they are one of the most slowest classes. And about the no armor thing no comment ;)
All in all these are the views of mine about the class.
if so what? 1-80:
1-80 pretty well, but expensivly and time consuming
does this work at higher lvls:
same as it did at 40, just slower :P
pve role:
kill mobs fast, and heal with nightshade.
do there skills reflect that:
yes. windshackle was an improvement to PVE. strong heals are good, along with good servitor buffs. but we have no crowd control abilitys.
pvp role:
kill the enemy or act as a healer with nightshade.
skills reflect:
sorta, but its to easy to kill our summons, and WAY to easy to erase them. once again lack of crowd control means after the summon is gone we can't defend ourselfs long enough to resummon in mass pvp.
lacking:
1) crowd control like sleep, fear, or root.
2) 3rd cubic, preferably one that does damage.
3) we need more cast speed with light armor so we can effectivly heal and still survive in pvp
4) soulless needs fixing hard. contract payment is a joke, why are we the only summoners with this problem. its skills suck, poison cloud land rate sucks even with bsps, corpse burst power is nothing, and it CANNOT be used in pvp.
5) shadow needs fix, 30% xp lose above 40 sucks, change it to 15% like non-true summoners summons. below 40 30% is fine :P
6) fix summon stats in general. necromancer, ws, and DA summons have probably 10% more everything (hp, p.atk, p.def, etc.) and twice the crit rate of true summoners summons.
Yes, but the cost of SS and the lack of meaningful item drops means it's hard to get ahead.
PvE what’s their job?
DD/bad tank.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes, but mana cost for skills is too high. The class has low mana, and high-cost skills makes them rarely used in pve.
PvP what’s their job?
Basically be a meat shield for ranged attackers (though speed boost in Interlude may help). My 75 nuker sub easily outdoes my 78 duelist in pvp.
Do their skills reflect that?
No. They need more mdef to be any good in larrger pvp. They have no mdef passives, and low attributes, and thus have some of the worst mdef in the game.
What are they lacking if anything?
The speed skill being added will help. They need these things: (a) not being affected by mana drain (this was added to allow defensive healers to kill offensive mages, but instead destroys melee; the mana drain skill should not work on melee classes); (b) they need some mdef passives; (c) the riposte stance skill is way too negative. It slows your run speed and attack speed, and has huge mana cost for a class with low mana. The attack speed should not be nerfed, just run speed; and (d) the class has no "out" skill. It has no UD, no insta hp, no uber frenzy. It's pattack increase when low on hp is so minimal it's useless. If the class got a ud such as the bladedancers have it would help its role to be a partial tank.
A couple points. Only 1 pet has an 80 crit rate, it's the necromancer's cursed man. SEcond, 30% XP drain is fine. You can still level quickly with it and you get to keep 100% of the drops, which is awesome considering that shadow is actually not very costly to XP with.
A couple points. Only 1 pet has an 80 crit rate, it's the necromancer's cursed man. SEcond, 30% XP drain is fine. You can still level quickly with it and you get to keep 100% of the drops, which is awesome considering that shadow is actually not very costly to XP with.
yet is it fair that everyone else had their summons xp droped and summoners stayed the same?
Early game yes, late game no. Support is required in the form of a CH or support class (Prophet), or pots in the late game.
I know that out of party classes are seemingly ubiquitous, but when you ask if a class can solo, counting those seems unfair.
The class is not efficient at soloing self buffed using the Herbs that drop on the ground.
If so what? 1-80
I can't fairly answer this question. The game has changed alot in the last three years. Yeah, the class can solo early on, but at what point that changes I can't say. There are new low level hunting grounds that didn't even exist when I started my climb up the ladder.
Does it work at higher levels?
No. See above.
PvE what’s their job?
Hate still isn't very effective for holding hate on mobs and due to the MP costs of the Hate skill it's not efficient to try and hold hate for the entire length of a mob.
So basically, you simply hold it for a little while to help take some pressure off the other DD in the party.
If things start going to hell in a handbasket (bad pull, getting trained) you can serve a role to help protect others while you clean up the mess or escape, but that's not exactly common.
The new skill Arrest is very effective tool, but more so for archers in a mixed party (archer hunting in a very small catacomb party for instance).
As usual there remains little point to a tank in a true archer XP party.
Raid bosses, mage AoE parties, and a role as a light DD in small XP parties is pretty much the class role in PvE.
Pole AoE parties don't really need you and one could make an argument that a pole AoE class could easily replace a tanks role in an AoE mage party.
Due to the MP cost of Hate we're also pretty poor for nine man raid bosses in places like Rift. A Destroyer who uses Frenzy on the boss is actually a better tank.
Leaving the only real niche for a tank the larger raid bosses. Epic raid bosses of course cannot be tanked.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yeah, we have a skillset that befit a tank.
Because of the cost of Hate though, it is somewhat questionable for toggles like Shield Fortress or Guard Stance to be used during a raid though.
Leaving the two skills mostly in the realm of PvP, not PvE.
PvP what’s their job?
Crowd Control, harrasment, supplemental damage.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes, but I do feel that both the Shilien Templar and my own class were shortchanged by the lack of some sort of shield stun until level 77.
The Human tanks seem more versatile than either of the Elf tanks.
What are they lacking if anything?
A distinct personality unfortunately. The class lacks the versatility and flexibility of the other tanks. The class also no longer has any truely unique skills.
We are simply a carbon clone of other tanks, with less active skills.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
I have no clue. Is the developers vision really the role-play style story they apply to the class?
If I recall correctly the Eva Templar is listed as a defender of their friends.
But honestly any tank could fit that broad description.
I have not played my Gladiator in a while, but I thought I'd throw in my evaluation just for fun. :D
=Class and Level=
Gladiator lv63
=Can they solo?=
Yes.
=If they can solo, how?=
Back when I played a Gladiator full-time, I hunted green mobs, usually not mages or archers. My strategy was to find a hunting field where I could keep track of the mobs around me and hit them one-at-a-time. I would lead off with a Sonic Blaster and then finish off the mob in melee. I have heard that the Gladiators of today can do some solo AoE hunting, but I think these rumors come from players who insist boxing a healer and buffer is still considered solo play.
=Does it work at higher levels?=
Soloing for the unbuffed melee is always rough. After lv60, I've had to spend a significant amount of my daily earnings on potions to survive (I will note that my gladiator was still in Bgrade gear with Bgrade duals with SA). I'm sure if I had the top gear available to me, my solo experience would have been different, but I would imagine that the game designers did not intend for me to have top Agrade equipment the second I gained Agrade mastery.
=PvE: what's their job?=
Damage dealer: kill the target as quickly as possible.
=Do their skills reflect that?=
Except on rare occassions, the only skill I used in groups was Vicious Stance. I used Sonic Blaster a lot in solo hunting. I think the skill set for Gladiators is more geared toward PvP, one-on-one and mass PvP.
=PvP: what's their job?=
Get in close and kill and protecting the ranged classes by engaging other melee units (with the understanding that archers and mages would focus on other archers and mages). Gladiators are one-on-one specialists (or supposed to be), so they should be more than "foot soldiers" in the deragotary sense.
=Do their skills reflect that?=
Absolutely. Sonic Blaster or Sonic Storm at mid-range, the Sonic Slashes close up.
=What are they lacking if anything?=
Some kind of temporary boost to speed -- I think it would make sense that a class that can make the most of its skills at mid-to-close range would train in closing the gap against ranged classes. Archers and mages dominate at range (which they should having focused their martial development for range combat), but I think it is far too easy for archers and mages to maintain their distance against a Gladiator.
The passive masteries available to Gladiators suggest that there should be three different types of Gladiators: heavy-armor, light-armor, and single-hand weapon with shield. There are skills that only apply to the "single-hand weapons with shield" gladiators, but there is little reason for a Gladiator to go light-armored over heavy-armored (I went light armor for fun!). If I was one of the game designers, I would develop new passives that only apply if you are wearing a certain armor type. Perhaps give light-armored Gladiators increased speed and evasion (in addition to the evasion bonus granted by light-armor mastery) while the heavy armor passive could grant increased defense against swords or blunt weapons; something to bring out these three Gladiator flavors.
=Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being player? What differences?=
Yes in the sense that Gladiators thrive in up-close combat, but barring other factors, Gladiators usually do not have the advantage the designers assume.
The Gladiator class is described as follows:
None is better at one-on-one close combat than the Gladiator. Enemies attempt to avoid his powerful attacks in vain. The Gladiator displays his superior swordsmanship using the Sonic Storm or with two-bladed swords he implements the Triple Slash.
I have an issue with the first two sentences in that description. Destroyers, Tyrants, and each of the dagger classes usually have the advantage when going toe-to-toe. I say "advantage" because player strategy and reflexes play a significant role regardless of class. As for the second sentence: range classes will avoid the Gladiator's most powerful skills by simply staying at range.
In early game it's easier like for most classes, at later game - no chance in hell, if you don't consider sitting 10 minutes to play 3-4 minutes soloing. The mp regen buff helps a *little* (costs 15 spirit ore at highest level), but there is no other class out there that can waste so much mana in so little time. Very dependent on support classes (SE, EE), many people have a SE buff pet for emp and recharge.
It's a little better at mobs that drop herbs but still doesn't change a lot.
If so what? 1-80
Hard to say what it's like now at earlier levels, since I started 3 years ago. Best mobs are probably undeads, since at least one of our skills does more damage on them. There is no weak-to-water mob to speak of, so the best bet is to go for undeads. You will be ok soloing at lower levels, although you will spend a considerable amount of time sitting around ;)
At higher levels, like I stated above, you'll have a hard time soloing, best mobs at ~60 are at devastated castle, later on I used to AoE at ancient battleground. It's still very much possible to aoe with nukers, despite what many people say.
At ~72 good mobs to solo/duo are at imperial tomb entrance, and at shrine of loyals/wall of argos.
But really, it's best not to solo anymore if you can help it once you got that far.
Does it work at higher levels?
As stated above, not really. Duo is best.
PvE what&#8217;s their job?
Used to be crowd controlling and damage dealing, now it's mostly only damage dealing. Although you will want to limit your damage-output (= mana output) so you can save yourself the embarassment of draining the groups recharger(s) of all their mana after 5 minutes of playing. MP regen buff is a must, at lower levels this is a bit more costly than at higher levels.
If the group pulls a lot of mobs, you'll still find yourself casting sleeping cloud. Slow, but still useful. At higher levels it rarely works, I'm not sure if over-enchanting it would help a lot.
Do their skills reflect that?
Crowd controlling is almost impossible for nukers of any kind now, for sps it's a bit better since they have the highest cast speed.
Our other skills are fine, although I think the DoT spells are completely useless. They should be influenced by bsps use and surrender spells, because as they are now, you do more damage with a normal nuke than with a DoT spell.
Vortexes at 76/77 are a great addition and change playstyle later on a lot.
Our fusion skills seem to be pretty useless as well (as for any other nukers), since they take way too long to recharge and too much effort/timing to set up. And they don't do all that much damage.
PvP what's their job?
Err... I don't really pvp.
But for the record: cancel, killing fast. Not much more to it.
With the right buffs you'll crit more than any other nuker, which comes in handy in pve same as in pvp.
Crowd-controlling: possible, but not very likely to land sleeping cloud.
Do their skills reflect that?
See above.
What are they lacking if anything?
MP regen skills of any kind. And I don't mean that buff that adds maybe 3-4 mp per tick at highest level. Just make it possible for SpS to solo without sitting around all the time, I'm sure not many people really enjoy that kind of playstyle.
As many people have stated, SpS is supposed to be hard to level. Seeing as Spellhowlers/Necros/(any archer) are equally or even more powerful in pvp, but exp a LOT faster, I don't really see how this is an argument.
Any class should be joyful to play in both pve and pvp, and if I didn't really love my char, I would probably have rerolled a long time ago.
Yes it's much better in a group with SE/EE/prophet/BD but you can't have that all the time if you don't join your local bandwagon ally or spend a lot of money on secondary accounts.
My point being, it should be possible for every class to play solo if there is no group available.
Anyway, right now I love my class but that's mostly thanks to the great people I can play with every day. Thanks for bearing my ever-lasting mp needs :)
Yes, I really think so. With the right SA and if you can drop arrows and ss on the group while you xp you can hunt a long time. (at least 40-64)
If so what? 1-80
Yeah, alot has changed since i was that level, but mainly you can solo selfbuffed anywhere they drop herbs and stuff.
Does it work at higher levels?
Yes it can. I was soloing yesterday in FoD.
PvE what&#8217;s their job?
DD, kill fast by hitting fast.
Do their skills reflect that?
not really, basically it's just hit the target and hope for a crit.
but for control, Stun shot is the best skill in this game.
PvP what's their job?
Kill, as many as possible before any other class sees you. then run as fast as you can.
Do their skills reflect that?
yes. with a fast attack speed. and stun shot and entangle. you can hit and run (gank solo targets) very effectivly.
What are they lacking if anything?
mp regen skill and hp. i die in one shot to HEs. that's just silly.
If so what? 1-80
Encountered very little problems before hitting around 65, after that it has been increasingly difficult to solo anywhere.
Beast farm helped alot though and if Walls of Argos if you have 5+ hours a day to gain 1-2%.
Does it work at higher levels?
It works but far from effective IMO.
As most classes, Tyrants don't do well PVE without buffs.
PvE what their job?
Doing ALOT of damage in short time.
Do their skills reflect that?
Yes. The skill set so far is pretty nice though some smaller changes and additions would have been preffered, but imo one of the most balanced classes.
PvP what's their job?
I seriously don't know, taking out daggers and healers perhaps?? I have PvP'd some but it beats me to what we actually are supposed to kill.
Archers kite/outrun me. Nukers just outright blow me to pieces. Daggers can very well 1 shot me if they are lucky and tanks, well, hitting on the tank is like hitting a mountain, doing 20-50 dmg on a 6-12k hp char.
Though tyrants might be one of the better classes in 1vs1, I still feel we're are severly lacking in the mass PvP due to not being able to use our most powerful skills.
Do their skills reflect that?
Somewhat. Problem is that to be really effective a tyrants hp needs to be 30% or less. And without skills to do it yourself (Ritual bloodletting perhaps??) your more often dead then able to use the skills.
What are they lacking if anything?
Considering I'm a BIG orc, I feel that hitting for 2x the crit dmg feels a bit soft. And how come tyrants is the ONLY damage dealer class (sadly not counting dwarfs here) without Vicious stance??? All other DD classes have it. And it's not like it would make us severly overpowered having it (Base crit rate of 42 unbuffed with a non focus weapon)
Mostly the tyrant is a VERY versitile class suitable for most occassions, but all the you-must-have-low-hp-to-be-effective-skills can be a pain. What I mean is that they are really terrific skills and really fun to use, but managing your hp in a way that keeps you almost dead 90% of the time is a pain in the *beep*.
I would like to see the hp limits raised a bit, like Bison totem kicks in at 75% hp instead of 60% (2nd lvl bison at 45%) to have more chances of using them. Would like to see the same increase for zealot.
Being able to evade nukes, and an overall increase to evasion. Considering that tyrants are meant to be the only truly martial art class ingame, so this shouldn't have to be asked for.
(according to NC's background "fluff")
During solo play, a Monk wears tattoos only as light armor and fights with hand-to-hand fighting equipment to cause severe damage while evading enemy attacks.
Another thing that always have bothered me is a few small differences between the orc fighter classes. Orc fighters are known for their physical prowess and still only destroyers get the hp skills, like boost HP, bandage, battle roar(not entirely sure about this one though), fast HP recovery, vital force and lion heart.
Infernal form. Might aswell remove it from game again. only good it has done so far is removing the holy weapon-curse up in monastary of silence. Yes, it cancels holy weapon buff aswell. Other then that it has no use what so ever unless the mobs is weak to fire and I haven't found many of those, more of the fire resist kind. When I first heard about this skill I thought "WOW, NEAT". But apparently everything is immune to the fire of Pa'agrio unless they are weak to all fire.
War frenzy. Has anybody noticed any benefits from having this skill?? I've tried it but I still get stunned as frequently as before.
And last but not least, Punch of doom. A completly worthless skill. It has 3 times the power of hurricane assault but does about 4-500 less in dmg on a mob and about 2-300 less on a PC. Not to mention that **** stun effect, so not only does it make less dmg it also costs 499hp (lvl3) to use AND leaves me stunned for about 10-15 sec. Wasn't it enough that it cost HP but it has to give the opponent the chance of hitting me for free about 10 times aswell??
Increase the damage done by this skill and remove the stun effect (don't see it on destroyers version "crush of doom") or jsut remove the skill completly.
If this has been said before, sorry, I don't the time to go through this entire thread right now.
Warlock 67
Love the class. This is the most fun I've had in the game since I started.
Solo
Well, I think most people know that summoners are some of the best classes in the game for solo work. They have the skills for it and can solo in places that most others of their level can not.
Party play
The warlock is very effective in a party. The mass summon cubic helps to add a good amount of damage. The Warlock can work as either a DD or as a support class +56. The new summon friend skill has raised our desirablity for parties quite a bit.
Skill set seems to be very complete for what we can do....However
Still haven't figured out why the Mass Summon cubic is wind based (realm of the DE's) especially when I get the skill Mass Surrender to Fire. Seems the cubic should have been a little prominence instead.
Someone on the dev team tell me, just how did anyone think it was the least bit fair to give every other class in the game an advantage over us in pvp? When I go into pvp I can only guess at the level of my oponent based on his equipment. My oponent on the other hand will have a very good idea of my level and his chances against me, just by clicking on my servitor and looking at the color of his name! Thank you for that one! lol Everyone I pvp with knows going in that they can take me, since the ones that can't run away before the fight has really started. From another point of view, I know that when someone does decide to pvp with me, I'm probably going to loose. Treating our servitors like a mob was just plain rude.
Oh, one other thing I get to look forward to. Every other class in the game gets to upgrade their weapon when they get to lvl 76, except the summoners. We have to wait until level 79 to get our new weapon. Since the servitor is our weapon, that one hardly seems fair at all.
Over all?
I still love the class and no way will I re-roll from this one as I did the SPS. The Warlock, PS and ES just need a little bit of tweeking done. I would like to be able to go into pvp knowing that I might have a chance to win though........
I think we still have Treasure Hunter, Elemental Summoner, Shillien Knight, and Abyss Walker to hear from. :)
you haven't heard from any elemental summoners cause they all quit when erase came out. Im the only elemental summoner on bartz and iv'e lost all interest in L2. im 79 elemental summoner/77 archmage quite possibly 2 of the worse classes in the game. Ive been hero for a whole year now and have really seen no advatages to being one besides the adena and buffing my clan valor.
well anyway I wont bore you with the gloomy truth about archmages, im sure youve heard it enough. but here goes the long awaited elemental summoner summary
Class: 79 elemental summoner hero
Can they solo? yes but with hunting areas such as varka silenos being almost depleted of mobs its hard to get a decent amount of xp while losing 10% xp.
If so what at lvl 80?
anything and anywhere not great xp but they get the job done and can survive vs any monster
Does it work at higher lvls?
yes
PvE whats there job?
DD/tanks/heal/or buff with seraphim( best in small parties of 3 or 4) It's an all in one class they can tank/dd/heal for the party all at once.
Do there skills reflect that?
for the most part summoner is an xping machine, its all the summon really the skills make you xp forever with no downtime.
PvP whats there job?
well this is where its gonna get alittle depressing. our job in c3 was to deal 4% deaths in official wars. I kinda cleaned up after the fight was won. In c4 the summon became very strong and hard to take down and we were DD class. now In c5 we have become mainly buffers and second Damagedealers. The summon is to easily dismantled and he has no way to get rebuffed fast(nobleese buff) buff mean everything in pvp and the summon can not keep its buffs up. plus the cp pot reuse time being reduced hurt summoners alot.
Being an ES my buff for party is a decrease reuse buff/or mp regen buff. most groups would prefer the extra nuker over me. and I think that helps the group more. So I dunno what you would call an ES in pvp. We can do 1 of each role, we can buff alittle/debuff alittle/damage deal alittle/tank alittle/heal alittle. We really excel at nothing this chronicle.
Do your skills reflect that?
my role as a ES judging from the buffs you give my class should be to nuke with my unicorn. I find nuking to be unaffective at best my mirage has a single nuke with very low casting speed and magical crit rate and the nuke seems to get interrupted very easily. I have self buff emp3 for my summon and wizard servitor, i think servitor acumen/zerk would help alot. or maybe make acu pots for summons.
you also gave my class merrow and mangus(interlude) 2 ponies with the same special. an AOE nuke I really don't understand this. AOE nukes don't work well at all in pvp and in pve the summon cast to slow to kill green-white mobs unless im with a party of 9 elemental summoners(p.s. theres only 1 on bartz)
What are they lacking if any?
This list can go on for pages and pages but Id rather simplify it.
- A summon resistance to erase
- nobleese blessing working on summons
- some sort of hero summon since I am hero my summon should reflect some sort of heroness.
- something to counter boss jewels and OEd gear. maybe alittle more stat boosts for skill enchanting summons.
-4 extra buff slots possibly a transfer buff ability (its really inconvinent for prophets to buff u and ur summon, if you shared buffs this could be avoided.
- To really sum it all up I think elemental summoners lack the ablity to benefit from end game features.(we get the worst of the best). We benefit the least from boss jewels/clan buffs/nobleese buffs/becoming hero/overlords/mass rez/zariche.
Do the players play the characters as the devlopers would like?
Im really the only elemental summoner I know on bartz. I think ncsoft wants summoners to be roleplaying characters that don't really pvp. so no i don't tihnk I play how they want me to.
k im done my rant about ES hopefully it enlighted people to play my class =D
P.S. I may have a pestimistic attutude in this post but I think what im saying still holds true.
Do their skills reflect that?
No, everything costs too many MP, so you end up in the front row with the melee DDs while the PP/SE/WC buffs and the EE/Bish/SE heals.
At best you can AoE debuff a few times per 20 minutes if there's a bad pull or someone leaves a train in your room to save your group.
Do their skills reflect that?
Not really, everything costs too many mp, so you end up doing a few CP cures and sitting down.
Or in 1 vs 1 you can sometimes kill 1-2 players with your drain (if it's not a tyrant/destroyer/dwarf, in which case you run out of mp before they die).
What are they lacking if anything?
MP management skills. Everything costs so much mp you end up not being able to use any skill often enough to rely on it.
One thing that would help greatly is a toggle skill that would reduce the cost of your buffs but make them self-buffs only instead of alliance buffs. 1800ish mp to self-buff, 228mp for HoP or 169mp for drain is a bit extreme in solo pve, where OLs spend most of their time.
Or give us some skills that actually benefit the xp/time of parties so we can have an option to soloing.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
No, according to our tatoo choices, we're supposed to be healers, while most players (including myself) play them as melee dd in pve and nuker in small-scale pvp. Only in large-scale pvp do we assume our healer/buffer role, since at other times our heals/buffs aren't mp-efficient enough to use.
There are i think 4 ES noblesse on Lionna, just because they don't read the forums doesn't mean they don't exist.
I said theres only one on bartz, I don't know about other servers, although 4 isn't a big number. Just how I feel about ES you don't have to agree but since im the only one who posted thats what we got. If you could get a lionna ES to post that would be great id love to hear what they think.
Can they solo?
1-66, Yes. There is always some green mobbs that drop herbs, and at the killingspeed of a Dagger, herbs comes alot the more mobbs you kill, so quantity > quality.
66+ - I have noticed a decrease in the soloability on green/white mobbs from here, i have yet to try beastfarm thou. But frozen labyrinth has nice quests and half of the mobbs at the yetis should still be green, rest light blue. Wich in turns means nice XP, yet decrease in drops.
If so what? 1-80
Basically any place where you kill fast, and get herbs. The more herbs you can get the less chanse of buffs dropping.
Does it work at higher levels?
If you count light blue mobbs in, id say solo with herbs effectivly works up to ~~70, after that i cannot say sadly. I doubt it thou.
PvE what’s their job?
DamageDealer, Primarey Hex debuffer if the mobbs are white and hex lands with a high landing rate.
Do their skills reflect that?
They got dagger skills, they got Hex... its a win-win situation. Unlike PWs heals...
PvP what’s their job?
Well, if you actually can avoid the massive rains of impending doom of massacre that the archers fire away, sneak past the slow but oh so deaddly stunning hp monsters and not get rooted while running for the lovely robeusers, then you find your job. Make pretty robes trashy!
VERY effective in close envirement (like Catas) since range is less of an issue so the flying doom of arrows is not so bad.
Do their skills reflect that?
In C5, the part with making robes to trashes are no problem at all. However once an archer sees you step into his 900 domain and none else is in there (most have run away or standing at 900 range fireing back) you dont have much to say about it. Ultimate Evasion and evasion specced might solve some of this, but Evasion today is pretty bad compared to the Accuracy that exists today... Arrows hit way to good on light moving targets...
Please note that im not very experienced in PvP, since as a dagger you really need the 75+ skills to feel the classes ability here. However i doubt those skills help very much in large skale dodging the arrows/fireballs game. ;)
What are they lacking if anything?
Stealth, drop all targets on self (not just one)
AWs got the dmg, it got the closecombat tricks (bluff, Stabs, Hex...). Daggers still has problems in melee verses HP classes as it should be. Needs away to get to melee in masscombat to assasinate key targets then probably die, perhaps run.
Do the players play the character how the developers see the character being played? What differences?
In PvE definetly, in PvP... PvP is to much range dependent, Tanks should be ablte to take range dmg, Daggers should be able to sneak past it (atleast a bit, like loosing all targets skill would easily buy a few more needed seconds),
Thank you to all that took the time to type up their thoughts on the different classes. As a new player(2nd day) this type of information is extremely helpful.