hey all im new to lineage 2 and i really wanted to be a elf knight so im omw to 40 as one. however im having trouble deciding between playing a sword singer and a temple knight.
mostly theres 2 things that concern me about each class so any information will be helpful
temple knight: i actually really would like to be a tank, as i've had a lot of fun tanking raid bosses so far. the problem i have with this class is that i'm told that its hard to find parties at higher levels, and im curious as to HOW tough it is to find parties. i would like to be a TK but i dont wanna be stuck soloing the rest of the game.
sword singer: i've heard that this is a good class but it's boring to play. personally i wouldnt mind being a buffer either (i played a brd in ffxi, actually) but from what i've read the sword singers main contribution to parties is the buffs, so im just wonderingif they have to be buffing constantly or if they just cast them and melee?
anyways any information or pointers about either class will be helpful to my decision.
i apoligize if similar posts have been put up but i didnt see any when isearched.
thanks in advance :)
SwSs are, at least on hinde, somewhat rare (especially when compared to BDs). And for places like Pagans, they are always sought after. Being a somewhat rare class that is useful means you can get random parties much easier.
However they arent tanks. They can tank reasonably well in groups, but for harder places like FoG/MoS, a tank is always good to have, and sometimes necessary.
I like my TK.... it is hard to find random groups. But if you have a good alliance, you should be fine. TKs make good raid boss tanks, and in interlude, will make awesome group raid boss tanks (i.e. Ice Queen, Rift) with their hate cubic. Tanking in the rift, or for Ice Queen I still think is one of the funnest PvE experiences in this game, and I love doing it :) So I wouldnt swap my TK for a SwS... but Im sure Id be a lot higher lvl on my TK if it was a SwS (if that makes sense :p ).
but from what i've read the sword singers main contribution to parties is the buffs, so im just wonderingif they have to be buffing constantly or if they just cast them and melee?
In most PvE situations you'll only be casting 2 songs. Song of Hunter (doubles base crit rate). You get this at 49, and song of earth (increases P.def) which you get at 55. Your songs cast speed is based on your attack speed. When equiped with a one handed sword unbuffed, it takes about 1 seconds to cast a song and they last 2 minutes. During the two minutes you'll be fighting till you need to cast songs again.
In solo play, the sword singer levels as slow as a tank until 49. Because a sword singer doesn't get any type of offensive skill until song of hunter.
sword singer: i've heard that this is a good class but it's boring to play. p
There are alot of classes out there that are more boring to play thatn a Sword Singer.
Besides, you will always be in a group, so its never really dull.
SwS sings every 2 mins, and thus have to keep track of songs/coordination with the BD if there is one/watch out for stun mobs when its song time. Plenty to keep your mind occupied. Since (as mentioned before) song casting times are very short, SwS do melee damage for 2 mins between songs. Given the right equipment, they can do some decent damage for a "support" class.
They may not have alot of skills they can use in between songs, but I woundt say its boring. Its not like you sing every 2 mins and sit on your behind the rest of the time (like some other classes who sit alot ><)
Yet another post promoting SwS's and not TK's. I have played a TK on and off for 2 years. They are not gimp at all, it's all a matter of how they are set up. If you've seen a bad TK, it's because of the player, not the character. I think I might copy and paste this reply everywhere.
SwSs are, at least on hinde, somewhat rare (especially when compared to BDs). And for places like Pagans, they are always sought after. Being a somewhat rare class that is useful means you can get random parties much easier.
However they arent tanks. They can tank reasonably well in groups, but for harder places like FoG/MoS, a tank is always good to have, and sometimes necessary.
I like my TK.... it is hard to find random groups. But if you have a good alliance, you should be fine. TKs make good raid boss tanks, and in interlude, will make awesome group raid boss tanks (i.e. Ice Queen, Rift) with their hate cubic. Tanking in the rift, or for Ice Queen I still think is one of the funnest PvE experiences in this game, and I love doing it :) So I wouldnt swap my TK for a SwS... but Im sure Id be a lot higher lvl on my TK if it was a SwS (if that makes sense :p ).
Depends. If your TK is set with say... I'm assuming DC or NM with a DLE with health... You won't go very fast. I prefer Tallum/DLE w/CD. Level's very fast, and can still tank beautifully. Even high end RB's. :)
I have a level 62 SWS. She was leveled up in about 3 months, but once I got to A grade, I felt like I had nothing to look forward to in the hard grind ahead. After getting A grade armor, you will only be interested in Song of Vitality at lvl66, then the next thing of any use is @lvl76. I made a choice to stop playing her as my main because I had nothing to look forward to in the short term, and the 2 minute rebuff thing was getting 'slightly' repetitive.
Saying all that, once my pala is 3rd class changed, I may find myself going back to her and go to 76, but thats only because I've got a great clan. I couldnt even concider trying to solo her because it gets boring fast with nothing to look forward to.
There are alot of classes out there that are more boring to play thatn a Sword Singer.
Besides, you will always be in a group, so its never really dull.
So not true...
No party looks at a SwS until level 49, unless they're your clan or alliance.
Even with a clan/ally, as a SwS, since you can "kinda" tank, expect to be tanking for a lot of lower level members until you get Earth at 55. At this point, you become... kinda popular... unless someone has an OOP buffer, and then not as much, but people will still like you.
Learn how to coordinate, because chances are you'll be partying with a BladeDancer (the Dark Elf version of you...) who does everything you do, but better. Oh, and they wear less clothing, if they're girls. DE males seem to dress in the Victorain manner... that is, covered from chin to shin.. so maybe they're ashamed of something, I dunno.
Anyway... this BD will most likely *not* be able to count, or tell time, or keep a rhythm, so you will constantly be reminding them to dance their dances so you can finish your next song, or even start to sing you're own. Oh, did we mention that mixing your songs with BD dances actually eats more MP with each additional effect? It does.... at some point, you'll sing a song and watch 750 MP disappear, just like that.
People will tell you that you can tank, and you can...sorta. As long as there's no real tank who shows up to show you how its done.
People will tell you that you can DD if you carry a bow... and you can, if you can manage to hit them. These also eat up your precious MP, so only good with Cheap Shot, or for short periods of time.
People will tell you that you're the anti-mage or anti-archer... and you kinda are, if you can live long enough to reach them. One good arrow or mage crit, though, and you're toast.
When you hit 55, you really don't have any songs to look forward to, for everyday use, until 76... Vitality is kinda nice, but actually too much of a pain in the butt to maintain effectively in an XP party, as you'll be eating your own MP every 2 minutes in a bad way... so 76 is the one, Song of Renewal... buffs MP Regen rate... yay.
Forget the in-game descriptions of the class, the lore and the CCQs they make you do... it's not at all like that in the life of the SwS.... I've tried about every combo there is, and your best bet is to build for speed and pull for AOE parties.
SwSs are, at least on hinde, somewhat rare (especially when compared to BDs). And for places like Pagans, they are always sought after. Being a somewhat rare class that is useful means you can get random parties much easier.
However they arent tanks. They can tank reasonably well in groups, but for harder places like FoG/MoS, a tank is always good to have, and sometimes necessary.
I like my TK.... it is hard to find random groups. But if you have a good alliance, you should be fine. TKs make good raid boss tanks, and in interlude, will make awesome group raid boss tanks (i.e. Ice Queen, Rift) with their hate cubic. Tanking in the rift, or for Ice Queen I still think is one of the funnest PvE experiences in this game, and I love doing it :) So I wouldnt swap my TK for a SwS... but Im sure Id be a lot higher lvl on my TK if it was a SwS (if that makes sense :p ).
Depends. If your TK is set with say... I'm assuming DC or NM with a DLE with health... You won't go very fast. I prefer Tallum/DLE w/CD. Level's very fast, and can still tank beautifully. Even high end RB's. :)
-.-
LOL you are runing around in DC atm Nest and you bash my TK for wearing Tallum and you blew up all your DLEs so .... lolz
Anyhow - the resistance songs are good (you'll have to admit Ky, VoS got infinitely easier with flameguard ^^), but they are not only situational but also mostly PvP situational. The main skills to look forward to start becoming regen boosts - and that's just not very fun at all.
On the plus side, exp parties with SwS in them are usually good, so you wind up being able to get to sub fast if you don't like it.
Personally, I think thanks to arrest and songs, the SwS is probably more fun to tank with, but the TK is better at it - and being a buffer is nice, but not nice to play.
As you are new to the game i suggest u make a SwS, after 49 you will get partyes most of the time/all the time and if you in a good size ally you can often just log in say Hi and get hammered with invites...
TK have so weak attack soloing will be extremely slow i think and they can like all tanks have problems getting a group....
first of all, thanks to everyone who has posted so far, you have all been a great help. i was actually more considering TK when i started the thread but im leaning more toward SwS now. i just have a few more questions about each class before i make my decision in 4 levels ( you start the quest at35 right?):D
first of all im just wondering what makes paladins such better tanks then TK, i was looking at their skills and they didnt seem to differ too much except for the 360 degree shielding and shield bashing. another question is are there a lot of paladins? i was trying to reason being a TK by thinking 'well every raid needs a tank, why not me?' but if theres a huge surplus of better tanks, well theres my answer right there. :P
regarding SwS i've read on other forums that they are one of the few classes that can make use of a two-handed sword, because of sword-blunt mastery, but i've read on here that SwS have to tank a lot in parties? does this mean that i'de still be using a sword and a shield most of the time? just curious.
oh and as a quick note, im wondering which class is more expensive ? as i mentiond this is my first character and so my adena count is pretty low. im aware that i'll have to do some money making one way or the other, but is either class more or less expensive then the other? and does one make more money then the other?
Shield stun and heals for party members are great for paladins, as are better STR and CON. In C4 at least, any tank could tank any raid of appropriate level. Not sure now.
Whether or not you tank or DD in parties mostly depends on personal preference. SwS run around with all kinds of weapons and do all kinds of things in groups - they're pretty versatile after all.
Anyway... this BD will most likely *not* be able to count, or tell time, or keep a rhythm, so you will constantly be reminding them to dance their dances so you can finish your next song, or even start to sing you're own.
So BDs aren't as good as counting as swordsingers, and are more lazy? Okay.
It is generally true for most people playing DE classes as their mains (compared to their LE counterparts), not only for BDs vs SwS. Maybe it is caused by the fact that DEs are much easier to play at lowbie levels.
Anyhow - the resistance songs are good (you'll have to admit Ky, VoS got infinitely easier with flameguard ^^), but they are not only situational but also mostly PvP situational. The main skills to look forward to start becoming regen boosts - and that's just not very fun at all.
On the plus side, exp parties with SwS in them are usually good, so you wind up being able to get to sub fast if you don't like it.
Personally, I think thanks to arrest and songs, the SwS is probably more fun to tank with, but the TK is better at it - and being a buffer is nice, but not nice to play.
first of all, thanks to everyone who has posted so far, you have all been a great help. i was actually more considering TK when i started the thread but im leaning more toward SwS now. i just have a few more questions about each class before i make my decision in 4 levels ( you start the quest at35 right?):D
first of all im just wondering what makes paladins such better tanks then TK, i was looking at their skills and they didnt seem to differ too much except for the 360 degree shielding and shield bashing. another question is are there a lot of paladins? i was trying to reason being a TK by thinking 'well every raid needs a tank, why not me?' but if theres a huge surplus of better tanks, well theres my answer right there. :P
regarding SwS i've read on other forums that they are one of the few classes that can make use of a two-handed sword, because of sword-blunt mastery, but i've read on here that SwS have to tank a lot in parties? does this mean that i'de still be using a sword and a shield most of the time? just curious.
oh and as a quick note, im wondering which class is more expensive ? as i mentiond this is my first character and so my adena count is pretty low. im aware that i'll have to do some money making one way or the other, but is either class more or less expensive then the other? and does one make more money then the other?
thanks for your continued help :)
listen bub... the Pally 360 Deg Shield Def is a Poorer Version of the TKs LVl 60 Shield Ageis. It makes their Shield Weaker. As far as money goes .... if you manor all the way you will be fine. In the long run you will save money soloing with the Life Cubic than a SWS using pots. My Cubic Restores 400 Hp to me or the lowest % of HP to a Party member.
Trust me little knight, the Temple Knight path is a hard one and not made for people who "want it easy"; ya gotta have brass balls =) I kinda feel sorry for other classes that don't have a HP/Storm Cubic with their soloing .... for as a LE you crit ALOT and your atk speed is prety good so when the cubic fires off it is like another crit ^^
Also Pallys are now better equipt Skill wise to kill us ... just how the mother [censored] devs made them in C5 ... in C4 I could stomp all over a pally ... but now they have 1. AOE root < that the TK originaly had except we had it only work on Undead> that works on everyone. bull [censored] !!!! 2. Angelic Icon that makes them a Killing Machine at low HP even tho HP Magic dosnt work well the Pots Have 100 % effect =p
Yet another post promoting SwS's and not TK's. I have played a TK on and off for 2 years. They are not gimp at all, it's all a matter of how they are set up. If you've seen a bad TK, it's because of the player, not the character. I think I might copy and paste this reply everywhere.
I think it has more to do with the fact that every good unique skill the TK had was later given to the SK, and the SK has a lot of nice offensive skills the TK never got, as well as better cubics. It's not that the TK is awful, just that there's another very similar class with all the important strengths the TK has and then some.
Once, the TK was a better defensive tank and the SK was a better offensive. Now they're equal defensive and the SK is still better offensive.
first of all im just wondering what makes paladins such better tanks then TK, i was looking at their skills and they didnt seem to differ too much except for the 360 degree shielding and shield bashing.
-Paladins have AoE root that hits anything... this skill is more powerful than the old Sleeping cloud as ranged characters are given free reign for every mob it hits... every mob that it doesn't hit is aggroed on the paladin... even if this spell fails, the paladin does his job like no other. A single paladin can derail trains like no other class in the game. Not to mention set up the mobs for AoE spells and abilities. This skill can single-handedly change the course of PvP encounters as well (although the paladin is gonna take a beating and probably die... people hate that...)
-Turn Undead - paladins can two-shot 5x undead mobs.
-Angelic Icon - paladins with low HP become avenging angels of death... paladins with brains use Sacrifice to give their Hp to someone else and go to town... Want to see what all melee should be like? Watch a buffed paladin in angelic icon.
-Shield stun - root + hate + shield stun means the paladin either has the target's attention and is dealt with... or you stand there stunned quite often.
TKs tricks just don't add up to even just AoE root.
Oh, and while TKs have a passive 360 degree shield block, Paladins have a toggle which does the same thing for no mana with only a shield power penalty.
For now.. the paladin has all the big tricks... Tks need some lovin IMHO.
another question is are there a lot of paladins?
No...
As in any MMORPG, there are bazillions of damage dealers (significantly less nukers after last chronicle's complete neutering of mages) and a few buffers, and even less tanks and (primary character) healers.
i was trying to reason being a TK by thinking 'well every raid needs a tank, why not me?' but if theres a huge surplus of better tanks, well theres my answer right there. :P
I wouldn't say TKs are lesser tanks for raids as you have 20+ other people to control/kill adds. However, you will only be raiding for a small portion of your L2 life... you will be XPing more often than not... and ALL tanks are pretty much unnecessary. High end groups are archers and buffers for archers which then pretty much insta-kill everything in their path. Everyone else is pretty much soloing unless you have clan parties going.
regarding SwS i've read on other forums that they are one of the few classes that can make use of a two-handed sword, because of sword-blunt mastery, but i've read on here that SwS have to tank a lot in parties? does this mean that i'de still be using a sword and a shield most of the time? just curious.
Sws don't tank anything in archer parties... you buff the archers and collect XP. In a smaller group you might be asked to tank... Note that Sws are a LOT more durable than most people give them credit for even with a Greatsword in their hands.
To be fair, TKs can also use Greatswords... they just get more bonuses for their shield than the TK can.
Never forget that a Sws does pretty well with a shield as well.
oh and as a quick note, im wondering which class is more expensive ? as i mentiond this is my first character and so my adena count is pretty low. im aware that i'll have to do some money making one way or the other, but is either class more or less expensive then the other? and does one make more money then the other?
Sws are cheaper. Your buffs do not require adena to use and in the best groups you won't even use soulshots because even using a bow it will be dead long before you can shoot at it. In smaller groups and solo your whole party criticals insanely more due to your hunter song and thus is much more efficient. This passes on to your soloing as well.
More criticals = less money used per mob.
TKs also use crystals for their cubics... Sws have no such issues.
Equipment is similar for sws/tk... so no big deal there (if you choose to skip the shield, the Sws is slightly cheaper, but it isn't really a big deal to add the small cost the shield represents after buying your full set.)
For a tank, a shield power penalty like that of Aegis Stance is not 'only'. -40% of your shield PDef is harsh to say the least.
I also have to say that the only time I've seen a pally trying to AoE root a player, he failed three or four times on un-aegised people 20 odd levels below him and then gave up grumbling.
But yes, in the end, the TK just needs a hell of a lot more love - the lack of heals, the lack of angelic icon, the lack of good offensive cubics, etc. etc., just make them lackluster next to both the paladin and the SK.
Atleast I am **** ^^ And in end game TK has, due to highest dext, 360 Shield Aegis, and highest possible con lvl of a Char with a true Shield Aegis, the best ability to Absorb Dmg imo..... we don't kill well .... we are just hard to kill ^^
Your Pally, DA, or SK might beat me, but you will have taken a beating from me <3
Both characters, despite your setup are going to run party oriented for pretty much the entire game as long as you play. If you want to form your own parties with clan/ally every night, and play the leader in every situation then TK or really any tank class is for you.
If you want to be a more easy going, get into pretty much any group you could want player then Swordsinger is more your goal. Any party aside from a nuker party is going to recruit you, and once they know you are there they will add you to their friendslist to the point when you sign in you'll be swamped. Gear isn't as important for this class right away, getting Doom heavy you can stick with it till the 70's if and when you want something like Nightmare or Tallum heavy. For pvp, buy a Delb, or Carnage bow with crit bleed, if your in an archer party with a good healer, you can run in and pull all the attention for the archers and they can assist you as you target whom to kill. Your not a true tank, but with your songs you can take alot of abuse even from some of the higher end nukers early in your 60's. Pve wise a good focus weapon is best, Damascus or if you want to go the route of some other Sws a two handed sword works as well but is slower. Personally you get shield masteries from your Elven Knight days so why not use them since you get zero heavy armor masteries past level 40.
Hope this helps, feel free to pm me here on the boards, I have had a Swordsinger (level 63) and I have played a tank in the past, even if it isn't a TK I can answer some questions if you want.
Seen as you brought Paladins into the thread I can discuss mine briefly, as well as my SWS.
I have a semi-retired SWS @ lvl 62, and a Paladin as my main @ lvl 67.
Objectively, I have more fun on my paladin than on my SWS. However, if you think you will be soloing a fair bit, I would say SWS is the char to choose. When I solo on my pala I burn up hundreds of GHP's per day, and need to keep her constantly fed with other pots and scrolls. If you will be grouped 'most' of the time, I would strongly suggest going for a tank because your clan will love you in clan hunts, and if there isnt much soloing to be done, youre not going to mind doing it.
If I wasnt in a great clan, my Paladin would be the char that was retired, and I'd be soloing my SWS. The key is to find the right clan/ally.
A SwS is more useful to most groups than a tank, unless you have an unexplainable overflow of SwS of levels 52 and above - and of course, a SwS (provided they can afford a bow to build aggro and sword/shield once the mob is on top of them) can tank decently, although of coures not as well as a real tank.
A SwS shines as a party support class - sounds to me like you were doing something really weird with yours Rosa. :/
For a tank, a shield power penalty like that of Aegis Stance is not 'only'. -40% of your shield PDef is harsh to say the least.
Maline, have you ever used aegis stance?
I ponder if you have any idea what the penalty means in terms of extra damage on shield block?
Aegis stance's penalty does hurt, and indeed the TK version IS better... but the paladin version works for what it was meant for... incidentally, simply having the shield available to block arrows or give a possible "excellent shield defense" proc from 360 degrees (even at its penalty) is priceless in some situations.
Pally shield use is NOT as good as a TK defensively... but then again, stunned targets do considerably less damage than TKs can hope to accomplish.
I also have to say that the only time I've seen a pally trying to AoE root a player, he failed three or four times on un-aegised people 20 odd levels below him and then gave up grumbling.
Dunno what is wrong with yer friend... mine works quite well given that it is an AoE spell. Indeed it lands more often than the Overlord version. (overlord version lasts longer however) It lands about as well as Sleeping cloud did back in the day when it didn't take an eternity to cast and lasts a LOT longer than sleep ever does in skilled PvP.
All AoE spells have a lowered landing rate (about 60% or normal ability)... plan for that and you are fine.
People completely ignore tanks in mass PvP...
Run up to a pile of enemies in mass PvP and hit the button... you'd be surprised how many are rooted... and you won't be the only one.
Maline, this is becoming a pattern...
AoE and PvP are not your strong suits.
I didn't say the pally is the worse tank - I think they're currently the best PvE and possibly PvP tank around (although PvP is always so dependant on who you're with so meh). I have not seen the difference -40% makes, but I have seen the difference 'before EE' and 'after EE' from healer perspective (who usually notices damage taken most keenly), which is about the same.
As I said with the AoE root, that's my experience - I was uhm... I think on my level 2x or 3x cleric at the time, and he couldn't land it worth anything. ^^
When I solo on my pala I burn up hundreds of GHP's per day, and need to keep her constantly fed with other pots and scrolls.
Given the drop rate of HP herbs for soloing, my paladin has trouble getting rid of HP... I seriously wish the herbs lasted a little longer so I could leave a few on the ground when I don't need them.
The only time I use pots in PvE anymore is when I get jumped by multiple pink or higher mobs...
Rosa, are you grinding where herbs drop? How are you losing HP so fast? The HP herbs drop every other mob or so and full heal herbs drop very VERY often.
Paladins are tough hombres in PvE and take very little damage overall, this combined with spot heals between herb drops keeps me soloing infinitely and without burning pots.
I suppose this might change 7x.... but my PTS paladin was doing just fine and my live one will be MUCH better equipped.
I didn't say the pally is the worse tank - I think they're currently the best PvE and possibly PvP tank around (although PvP is always so dependant on who you're with so meh). I have not seen the difference -40% makes, but I have seen the difference 'before EE' and 'after EE' from healer perspective (who usually notices damage taken most keenly), which is about the same.
Do I get hit harder through shield blocks? yep... but it really isn't a massive deal considering I can toggle it.
Do I think you should toggle it off when you don't need it?
Yes.
Is it worth having 360 degree block sometimes over its blocked damage lost? Most definitely Yes.
Is the TK/SK version superior... Yes.
Does it mitigate some of the SK/TK advantage in that particular place? Yes.
As I said with the AoE root, that's my experience - I was uhm... I think on my level 2x or 3x cleric at the time, and he couldn't land it worth anything. ^^
Gonna chalk it up to bad luck... for an AoE skill, Mass shackle has a very generous land rate.
We agree about that skill fully then - of course when you have more mobs behind than in front of you and the mobs are spreading, instead of moving it makes sense to toggle it. However, I'd still rather take the quick step back to pull all in front of me if it's possible.
And, well, as I said - the mass shackle thing is only personal exp, so not worth anything. ^_^ You're probably right - did you reroll to paladin after your PTS experience?
I made a paladin alt on a bet that I couldn't solo him to 40...
Someone read my PTS accounts and bet me I couldn't handle it on a "real" server as a melee... I was 38 before I died my first time and 40 with my class changed in just over a week. So much for "hard" from 1-40.
I won the bet... mostly ironman solo to boot.
(Helped the clan as well...)
Keep in mind, ANY class is a breeze from 1-40... melee especially now.
I originally considered him an alt, but I find myself playing him more than my nuker... and enjoying myself more...
I am likely going to have to eat some crow pretty quick and just declare the paladin my main.
(Gotta find someone to bet me I cannot make it to 75 now. Determination works wonders for my attitude towards grinding...)
I made a paladin alt on a bet that I couldn't solo him to 40...
Someone read my PTS accounts and bet me I couldn't handle it on a "real" server as a melee... I was 38 before I died my first time and 40 with my class changed in just over a week. So much for "hard" from 1-40.
I won the bet... mostly ironman solo to boot.
(Helped the clan as well...)
Keep in mind, ANY class is a breeze from 1-40... melee especially now.
I originally considered him an alt, but I find myself playing him more than my nuker... and enjoying myself more...
I am likely going to have to eat some crow pretty quick and just declare the paladin my main.
Im with you on this, I started my DA and love it so much i ditched my nuker. Melee is much more fun now.
Heh. Healers can solo to 40 - up to at least B Grade is no problem for any class thanks to herbs... heck, I doubt it gets impossible after that, just slow.
Beyond that - you've already seen that if you find the right spot you can solo to your satisfaction at 75, so eh.
I've found that since I started focusing on money and fun rather than my experience I could bear almost any level speed - mostly due to not watching.
So BDs aren't as good as counting as swordsingers, and are more lazy? Okay.
Umm... yep.
Anyhow - the resistance songs are good (you'll have to admit Ky, VoS got infinitely easier with flameguard ^^), but they are not only situational but also mostly PvP situational. The main skills to look forward to start becoming regen boosts - and that's just not very fun at all.
To be sure, the resistance songs certainly help... though I would say that, overall, they are poor substitutes for the bevvy of 20-minute buffs provided by true buffer classes...
... and, yes, it's kinda depressing that all the skills I have to look forward to aren't very interesting, and have a rather wide spread of grind-heavy levels between them.
I like my SWS sub. I only miss having skills to play with, and a stun. It's nice to add something to the groups.
SWS's are awesome in a PVP group, their songs rock, I rather have more songs than dances TBH. The thing about the resist songs is that they stack with normal resist buffs, that makes them very good, it's no real disadvantage that they only last 2 minutes.
And yes, I often kick the BDs for not dancing on time.. though I'm sometimes lazy or distracted myself.
All of your songs are actually pretty good in comparison to those 20 minutes buffs.
Song of Earth = +25% PDef (where Shield level 3 = 15%)
Song of Hunter = +100% crit rate (doesn't quite play out to doubling, but the +30% crit rate on focus doesn't actually add a third either so eh).
Song of Warding = +30% MDef (same as Magic Barrier 2)
Songs of Element Guard = +30% resistance (same as Resist XX buffs, but can't be surrendered)
I honestly think the two minutes are not a problem (an advantage in a way, in fact), and I've played a toon that works as a 2 minute buffer occassionally before. Of course, it could get tedious if you don't like it - but that's class preference I guess.
When I solo on my pala I burn up hundreds of GHP's per day, and need to keep her constantly fed with other pots and scrolls.
Given the drop rate of HP herbs for soloing, my paladin has trouble getting rid of HP... I seriously wish the herbs lasted a little longer so I could leave a few on the ground when I don't need them.
The only time I use pots in PvE anymore is when I get jumped by multiple pink or higher mobs...
Rosa, are you grinding where herbs drop? How are you losing HP so fast? The HP herbs drop every other mob or so and full heal herbs drop very VERY often.
Paladins are tough hombres in PvE and take very little damage overall, this combined with spot heals between herb drops keeps me soloing infinitely and without burning pots.
I suppose this might change 7x.... but my PTS paladin was doing just fine and my live one will be MUCH better equipped.
Im currently lvl 67, and spending all my time in WoA. Antelopes, Bandersnatches, etc dont drop herbs, hence the need for GHPs. And Im not losing HP "fast". I only have to use 1 GHP per mob on average, but when you are killing around 750 mobs per day ... lol.. you get the idea.
Well, if they don't drop herbs, that explains it...
I am curious... why solo grind on mobs that do not drop herbs? (especially when it results in additional adena expenditure in order to grind...)
Just in case you aren't completely sold on WoA...
FotD is a nice little paladin toystore until 72-73.... indeed there are areas that ranged will avoid that are almost completely undead that are away from the beaten path.
Granted, if you are at war, FotD isn't ideal as certain areas (and the port-in) are crowded.. however, WoA isn't exactly deserted usually either...
I am curious... why solo grind on mobs that do not drop herbs? (especially when it results in additional adena expenditure in order to grind...)
EXP > Money to most, and I assume WoA appeared to the person to give better exp, or maybe even does. I'm not sure, I've not been there with the same person with whom I grind FotD.
Although I'll agree - the undead in FotD should be lovely for a paladin, provided he can find any to kill with all the archers and nukers leaving miles and miles of adena fields. But hey - at least you get rich there. XD
Reason I never even spent longer than a couple buff rounds there was because it was at night (with the vampires out) :) I guess I got a bad impression of XP vs. Difficulty. Not saying I couldnt solo there (cus I havnt tried yet), just it *looks* dangerous - kinda the same way I get my *** kicked by flashes in VoS.
Saying that, Ill probably go and try it tonight now youve been talking about it :)
I am curious... why solo grind on mobs that do not drop herbs? (especially when it results in additional adena expenditure in order to grind...)
EXP > Money to most, and I assume WoA appeared to the person to give better exp, or maybe even does. I'm not sure, I've not been there with the same person with whom I grind FotD.
Although I'll agree - the undead in FotD should be lovely for a paladin, provided he can find any to kill with all the archers and nukers leaving miles and miles of adena fields. But hey - at least you get rich there. XD
FotD is great for archers... tanks not so much
alot of the mobs are ranged, social, group, and packed in tightly meaning that while 1 maybe be easy to kill 3 or 5 can target you very quickly and as a tank even w/ ud its hard to handle a bunch of mobs w/ low patk... mostly cause alot of those mobs have bleed/posin and there isnt many places to run to safty in fotd
Woa - antalopes/bandersnootches are more duo mobs than solo if your gunna solo them i suggest you be a Destro, Tyrant, Glad, or HE because banders can suk up your hp pretty quick w/ bleed and crits and they take a bit of time to kill also no herbs drop so you gotta have potions or a 2box for heal
if your looking for a nice spot for xp/$... the bugs & shrine guard/knight is good
they take 1/2 the time to kill as a bander and give about 50% of the xp also so its no xp loss per time spent... they drop herbs so your hp and mp are easy to keep full and you have some buffs if you dont have your own buffer
they drop a good amount of adena/mats and they have some nice rare drops
best part for a TK or Pally is that if you get the area right after the tunnel most of the mobs are undead (the other spots are only about 30% undeads but still good spots)
i get holyweapon and resist dark and those guys drop like flys
also the mobs are alot more compact than bander/lopes so its no extra running for faster speed kills
imo its a nice xp spot and it wont kill your pocket and once you outgrow that people w/ a passion for killing undeads can head to imperial tombs 1st room and get a nice quest and some ok xp
back to SwS vs TK
if your playing a elven knight you know pretty much how a TK is gonna work... sure you get some neat skills and become a better tank but your still doing the same basic thing... take dmg, pull mobs, hit them
people will tell you Pally or DA is a better tank... not true
just different TK has better shield defense rate and toggle skill that inturn give them better pdef your mp regen and cubics will let you manage your mp alot better than other tanks where as da and pally spam mp then cant do much
da and pally have high con and can tattoo for nice stats or they can go for hp and jus become a dmg sponge... wich isnt good either since thats just alot of work for the healer
DAs have the cat and some nice skills they are good tanks and cool in pvp
Pallys are great raid and party tanks but they are a big hp or mp leech depending on wat they are doing at lvl 78 they become pretty much unkillable so thats also great
TKs are efficient on hp and mp they are good tanks for raids and xp partys not that great for pvp
SwS is a good small party tank/dd (SwS,BD,WC,EE) is a good cata group they can do some ok soloing... good solo if you have a 2box buffer
partys are pretty easy to find and almost every clan will take a SwS
since archers are the current flavor SwS pvp is ok also since archer groups like to have max crit/pdef/mdef
i end my rambling w/ this
if you pick SwS youll always have a group/clan and probably lvl pretty fast
if you pick TK groups will take some work even w/ a good clan/ally youll xp alot slower than if you picked sws
but when you are ina group youll be in control youll have mobs and players to keep watch over and you wont just do songs every 2 minutes then rightclick someones name to target and attack a mob like SwS
youll understand the intricate details of a TK that most players dont
and if your not a hardcore player youll get ticked at lvl 65 and rerole SwS anyway ^^
I heard mention of the SwS soloing (though, probably a rare occurrence). How are they soloing compared to BD? Most people say BD's can't solo past 60 well or at all. Yet it looks like with sting and duals they do more damage.
Would a STR build be a bad idea for a SwS? BW -> Maj + 2h?
Sws solo just fine... you aren't a damage machine, but you will crit quite often.
BD's damage advantage comes from their high STR, buffs and using duals...
Frankly, Sws can use 2H swords and actually dish quite well.
2H swords are superior to duals in that they don't lose half their soulshot charge on a miss and they dish the same amount overall than duals, they just do it in one damage spike instead of two swings.
Solo, you will be quite efficient (lots of crits) but be missing the self-buffed patk, crit damage, and haste buffs of the BD.
Solo is possible all the way up, its just slower than you shoud be XPing because a Sws is a massively great party buffer.
FotD is great for archers... tanks not so much
alot of the mobs are ranged, social, group, and packed in tightly meaning that while 1 maybe be easy to kill 3 or 5 can target you very quickly and as a tank even w/ ud its hard to handle a bunch of mobs w/ low patk... mostly cause alot of those mobs have bleed/posin and there isnt many places to run to safty in fotd
Do some exploring... the ranged caster types are not the only target in FotD. There are entire fields of undead that are melee-only that are easy targets for a paladin (or Sws really)
For a paladin,
Holy Blade gives a nice chunk of freebie damage in melee.
Sanctuary takes a good chunk out of groups of undead's patk and a paladin never needs to face more than one or two melee targets beating on him ever... not that mine even really cares unless 4 or more are anyways... with HP herbs dropping every other mob you will be hard pressed to lose enough HP to Angelic Icon when it comes up even just self-buffed.
The undead are indeed social and this only raises your kill rate. Less running = good. Never forget that against undead you are a nuker as well. (great for pulling as it will do 1.5-3 soushot swings in damage as well depending on if you use a bsps or not (I advise against unless you are rich).
The only problem is that hunting here takes some getting used to... you will waste some mana/bsps while you get the hang of it.
Sws solo just fine... you aren't a damage machine, but you will crit quite often.
BD's damage advantage comes from their high STR, buffs and using duals...
Solo, you will be quite efficient (lots of crits) but be missing the self-buffed patk, crit damage, and haste buffs of the BD.
Solo is possible all the way up, its just slower than you shoud be XPing because a Sws is a massively great party buffer.
Hmm, a lot of people say BD's can't solo passed 60. Hence my curiosity of SwS soloability in comparison. I'd think that SwS would be worse actually, shows what I know.
And, yeah, being a party support class I'm sure they'd be in one most of the time. It's nice to be "able" to solo, though. If you're in a small clan and no one is on when you are etc.