Ive been searching through the spell list etc and I dont see a whole lot of difference for the most part between a spell howler (DE) and a spell singer (E). Can someone help me out here and give me some insight on the difference's between these two classes in PVP only related terms at the higher end game please.
more speed, better chance of interrupting your opponent's cast.
so speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> power.
gear wise, most nukers have the cookiecutter setup for pvp: +5wit+4int-9men, or sometimes +4int+4wit+4con-4str-8men.
most nukers wear Acumen Weapons, and Dark Crystal robes.
most nukers have 2 buffslaves; EE and SE. those without EE arent high lvl, those boxing prophet are noob, and those without SE are just slow levellers.
in 1v1 it's a toss up to who wins really...
SH can land silence and then win for sure, but it doesn't land 100%
otherwise, SpS's cast speed > SH's higher matk, since wit's cast speed bonus is superior to int's matk bonus.
NEVER used an EE EVER....
I know it was a DE/LE question but...
Necro....
Silence...
Anchor hits a LOT...
Corrupted Man = Transfer Pain
A little expensive to be a Necro on the minus side but 1v1 a Necro will beat anyone same or 2/3 levels higher
still needs cast speed.
lets rehash this one more lest i missed it the first time; more cast speed means more frequent casting vs another nuker.
if i cast faster, my nuke will hit first. my nuke is ALWAYS faster than your silence/cancel. since my nuke will hit first, you can be interrupted. interrupt >>>>>>>>> silence. since you arent casting, i will win.
hence, Cast speed owns all. seu up any nuker for cast speed, and youll win against anyone slower than you.
thanks for all the info, playing a Elf caster currantly and loving it. But i do have 1 more question if you dont mind. Are casters viable in PVP at end game versus melee? Basicly ive heard nothing but archers and assasins are untouchable and knights absorb so much of our damage it's horrible. So in the end, at least with the present setup, is it worth it to invest the time to level a caster?
thanks for all the info, playing a Elf caster currantly and loving it. But i do have 1 more question if you dont mind. Are casters viable in PVP at end game versus melee? Basicly ive heard nothing but archers and assasins are untouchable and knights absorb so much of our damage it's horrible. So in the end, at least with the present setup, is it worth it to invest the time to level a caster?
vs melee you will never have a problem. my sorc can take down a tank UD's 5 lvls higher than me (but i do have some things that most sorcs my level don't have including an highly enchanted weapon) and not break my CP.
vs raged on the other hand, you will always go down in pretty well 1 shot.
Well, remember Spudnik, you're describing a "fair fight" situation. To be honest, I don't do much PvP myself. But, I do know if an SH manages to catch another nuker of about the same level unawares, then he can Silence the other nuker and will have an advantage. Back to grinding ....
Well, remember Spudnik, you're describing a "fair fight" situation. To be honest, I don't do much PvP myself. But, I do know if an SH manages to catch another nuker of about the same level unawares, then he can Silence the other nuker and will have an advantage. Back to grinding ....
what i described is a non nuker bsoe fight.
see on my server i will admit many times nuker vs nuker fights usually last under 3 seconds. and every cheater on the server knows the instant he is hit in an open field vs a wartag, he MUST bsoe in order to NOT lose clan rep.
the only ones that stay and fight are the necros.
ive seen 78 sagi's bsoe from mere 65 necros. ive seen lvl 79 archmages bsoe from lvl 72 sps.
first hit = bsoe for most nukers that know how to follow orders.
Um, the point of this thread is just plain silly...
Both are mages who die in ONE HIT to the standard PvP fare (the horde of archers)
You will nuke for 400-1200 damage and die as either class.
If by some miracle a SH and Sps meet both knowing about each other? Both are unbuffed? Spellhowler will silence and insta-win, if silence doesn't land he loses. Both are buffed with Mentla Shield? Spellsinger wins more often than not.
Realize the difference between fully buffed SH and fully buffed Sps with bsps is less than .1 of a second.
More than likely if all is equal and we are talking real situation, the first hit wins and it doesn't matter which nuker.
Only an idiot deals in absolutes - nothing is certain inGame; especially when you know how to play your toon.
But... for the record...
SH > all!
hehe.
Finally someone gets me. The SH has two very powerful attacks; Hurricane and Death Spike and if you level later on you will get Dark Vortex and Wind Vortex.
Dark Vortex > Ice Vortex. The SH will cast faster.
The SpS has Light Vortex (wow, who gives a -_- about that) and Ice Vortex.
Use Dark Vortex and Vampiric Claw when low on HP.
(If the SpS tries to cancel you, go for Silence and he's screwed.
It's not like that the SH will get canceled the moment he gets hit, there is also a thing called concentration, also SH is always over SPS due to the fact that he can get all the of hp he lost and in the process end up killing the sps
hmm sry but do u guys even play Mystic Muse/ Stormscreamer?
I can tell u 1 vs. 1 (not gank) that an MM is more likely to win. Why?
1) Faster Casting and Ice Dagger. Ice Dagger has a really high chance of interupting spells.
2) Also from my understanding, all vortex cast at the same speed. Since MM has higher casting speed, MM will cast faster.
3) lol at Light Vortex??? Do you know what your talking about? Light attack are the only attacks in game that dont have a dance of protection (fire, wind, water and dark all do). I often do more damage at sieges with my light vortex cause of the buffs the enemy has.
4) You can't get hp from cp, so SH's rarely use the drain cause the timing is difficult.
5) Cancel/ Silence are non-factors. You need 600 range and by the time u get into range all your cp and some hp will be gone - not a wise move.
In the end, the better player/the one with more luck (cancelled other person's spell) will win. SH and Sps good, depends on preference.
1) Skill interruption is based on damage done, unless it's a skill like trance/anchor/silence/etc. you get the point. If you think Ice Dagger has a really high chance of interrupting spells, you dreamed it up. Lol. Funny too.
2) Your Vortex isn't guaranteed to interrupt the SH's Wind Vortex, which will virtually guarantee him the win. Concentration 6 + DC Set. If you don't interrupt his vortex, you lose because he will then cast faster than you.
3) Reuse on Light Vortex? And what MM would use Light Vortex in a 1 v 1? Non-factor.
4) 1 Vortex and 1 - 2 Hurricanes is enough to take all you CP, but the SH doesn't need to drain because it has landed the Vortex and 1 - 2 more Hurricanes he's probably going to win anyways. Even then, his Vamp Claw will probably cast at the same speed as you Hydroblase (Wind Vortex - 30% Cast Speed).
5) Sometimes taking off a key buff like Empower/Acumen can be the nail in the opponent's coffin, but you know that? Right? Gluck with Cancel if he/she has OE'd buffs, though. Can you OE cancel for chance? Never looked into that.
What I do as a Necro vs SPS? Gloom + Fear. Good Fight.
Have fun interrupting two skills that cast in half a second or less...
Have fun landing fear on me with Elf M.Atk and no M.Def debuff. I run in like a tank with TP up because SPS hits very unhard.
Sorcs are harder for me (Prominence hits harder and interrupts more) and SH are hardest. The only time I lost to an SPS was when one ganked me while I was typing on SE's keyboard and I made a mistake and pressed F12 when he started nuking me. F12 is my sit hotkey O.o
Of course the End Game MM's are > me atm, though :)
all i say is only a noob talks in absolutes
be proud of your sh, thats all good. but think you can always win against an sps? your just full of yourself
necro is best.. thats a given. I think that was established for a long time... I wasn't talking versus necro :p
all i say is only a noob talks in absolutes
be proud of your sh, thats all good. but think you can always win against an sps? your just full of yourself
necro is best.. thats a given. I think that was established for a long time... I wasn't talking versus necro :p
I'm not talking in absolutes, but I'm talking about in a fair fight with same gear, tats and stuff, that I would bet that a SH would win. Now I lost to a SPS before but that was because came at me while I was dualing someone else. Put me at 1v1 fair fight and I will cream a sps
Only time a SH/StSc can beat an SPS/MM is if the Wind Vortex lands, they don't get interrupted on any casts, or they get an M.Crit.
Pre 77 an SPS/MM will kill an SH/StSc 80% of the time due to the cast speed advantage.
AquaSpark mentioned StSc/MM, which is why I replied the way I did.
Pre-77 (Pre-S Grade, for the most part) you have alot going against you as an SPS, and winning a "fair fight" with an SPS is pure luck for the SH TBH :(
Certain debuffs like Silence, Fear, etc. become harder to land in S Grade (Wisdom Passive). Add in Mental Shield 4 and no M.Def debuff and the fight becomes more gear-dependent and less skill-dependent.
Would you say it's worth rerolling a sorc? One of my L2 dreams was to stand in Aden as a Sorc with NM robe and wielding a BOMT. I love how NM looks and their stance with staffs. Plus, they're getting an awesome looking spell in CT1; like an AOE meteor strike.
Well, just for fashion , there are few better classes... but they are not uber strong or something like that. ;o A nuker, yes, but lacking in many areas.
>.> sorc's shouldnt be wearing NM, gives really bad casting speed. and i'll stand by my own that being a sorc is best! because there are so few of us and noone buffs resist fire cause they rent expectin a sorc ;)
i see no lack in sorc, and thats cause they hit hard enough and cancel is better than silence any day, because silence u can get silenced and run til it wears off, cancel it lands and watever buff it lands on is gone, no commin bak til u rebuff. i mean come on i do it all the time, i get silenced and i hit CP pots and run til its off i kited a necro one day cause he kept landing silence rite after my cancel landed but since he couldnt kill me and cancel took his acu/emp/ww/zerk he just bsoed before i did nethin but cancel
NEVER used an EE EVER....
I know it was a DE/LE question but...
Necro....
Silence...
Anchor hits a LOT...
Corrupted Man = Transfer Pain
A little expensive to be a Necro on the minus side but 1v1 a Necro will beat anyone same or 2/3 levels higher
still needs cast speed.
lets rehash this one more lest i missed it the first time; more cast speed means more frequent casting vs another nuker.
if i cast faster, my nuke will hit first. my nuke is ALWAYS faster than your silence/cancel. since my nuke will hit first, you can be interrupted. interrupt >>>>>>>>> silence. since you arent casting, i will win.
hence, Cast speed owns all. seu up any nuker for cast speed, and youll win against anyone slower than you.
Acumen 3, Berzerker Spirit 2, DC Set, +4 Wit, Hot Springs Malaria 4
That's fast enough. The SPS will not interrupt every cast.
Fear is the key, it lands more than any other debuff a Necro has after Gloom lands.
Gloom > Fear > Silence > WIN!
Cast speed owns but things change when the mage goes from having 5k to 10k HP+CP (combined) and has resist buffs on.
The SPS will lose 90% of the time, only winning when the necro gets a string of interrupts (which is possible but not consistently probable with DC Set + Concentration 6) or the SPS has better gear and crits a couple/few of their nukes.
A Necro has more HP and can drain HP back while doing damage to the SPS. An SPS must kill a caster with twice their HP/CP which a servitor is hitting them with Beast SS or draining them (which also heals the Necro 20% of the damage dealt) with Beast BSPS.
MM is very powerful at 76, but once ST gets to 77 Curse of Doom comes (with its high land rate) and at level 78 comes Curse of Abyss which rapes casters and melee equally.
i see no lack in sorc, and thats cause they hit hard enough and cancel is better than silence any day, because silence u can get silenced and run til it wears off, cancel it lands and watever buff it lands on is gone, no commin bak til u rebuff. i mean come on i do it all the time, i get silenced and i hit CP pots and run til its off i kited a necro one day cause he kept landing silence rite after my cancel landed but since he couldnt kill me and cancel took his acu/emp/ww/zerk he just bsoed before i did nethin but cancel
Cancel is not a reliable way to neutralize an enemy at high levels. Banes are infinitlely more reliable because they are high level skills and target specific buffs. Once a buffer gets to 78 and OEs their buffs to +1, the buffs become level 78 "learned level" which makes them extremely hard to cancel. There are also buffs for cancellation resist. The success rate of Cancel is low on a target who has +1/3/7 buffs and cancellation resist.
Now.
Resist Fire is there until you surrender it. Elemental Protection has 30% Fire Resist built in. You have no alternate-element Overhit nuke to overcome the resist and give you a higher power nuke to use (SPS-Holy, SH-Dark).
A high level Necro who PvPs more than they PvE will most likely have +5 WIT because they have Transfer Pain for HP/CP, and will most likely have Malaria 4 - so you cast speed is equal or less than theirs.
Fear has a higher base landing rate than Silence, which is augmented by the use of Curse Gloom. Gloom and Fear the Sorcerer and he cannot spam CP pots. Nuke and Silence. Silence duration is 3 fears. Whenever you see the sorceror hit a CP pot. Fear him again (it's spammable). Do this while your Cursed/Corrupted man is hitting them. They'll die fast enough. Corrupted Man itself will outdamage your CP Spam (hitting 300+ a swing on Robe class with Beast SS at about the same speed that you spam them).
What you need to do as a Sorc is realize that you actually get Fear too and it works nicely. Use it, even against mages. It works nicely and will win you a PvP more consistently/faster than cancel ever would. The land rate is high, and I actually expect it to get balanced in a near future chronical/throne.
i see no lack in sorc, and thats cause they hit hard enough and cancel is better than silence any day, because silence u can get silenced and run til it wears off, cancel it lands and watever buff it lands on is gone, no commin bak til u rebuff. i mean come on i do it all the time, i get silenced and i hit CP pots and run til its off i kited a necro one day cause he kept landing silence rite after my cancel landed but since he couldnt kill me and cancel took his acu/emp/ww/zerk he just bsoed before i did nethin but cancel
Cancel is not a reliable way to neutralize an enemy at high levels. Banes are infinitlely more reliable because they are high level skills and target specific buffs. Once a buffer gets to 78 and OEs their buffs to +1, the buffs become level 78 "learned level" which makes them extremely hard to cancel. There are also buffs for cancellation resist. The success rate of Cancel is low on a target who has +1/3/7 buffs and cancellation resist.
Now.
Resist Fire is there until you surrender it. Elemental Protection has 30% Fire Resist built in. You have no alternate-element Overhit nuke to overcome the resist and give you a higher power nuke to use (SPS-Holy, SH-Dark).
A high level Necro who PvPs more than they PvE will most likely have +5 WIT because they have Transfer Pain for HP/CP, and will most likely have Malaria 4 - so you cast speed is equal or less than theirs.
Fear has a higher base landing rate than Silence, which is augmented by the use of Curse Gloom. Gloom and Fear the Sorcerer and he cannot spam CP pots. Nuke and Silence. Silence duration is 3 fears. Whenever you see the sorceror hit a CP pot. Fear him again (it's spammable). Do this while your Cursed/Corrupted man is hitting them. They'll die fast enough. Corrupted Man itself will outdamage your CP Spam (hitting 300+ a swing on Robe class with Beast SS at about the same speed that you spam them).
What you need to do as a Sorc is realize that you actually get Fear too and it works nicely. Use it, even against mages. It works nicely and will win you a PvP more consistently/faster than cancel ever would. The land rate is high, and I actually expect it to get balanced in a near future chronical/throne.
yea dude i use fear wen i need to, but fear is the cheapest thing in this game, sure it does give some balance but it's like a win button, its time for you to understand that the numbers showing in the book are nowhere near the same as the results you see in the field. all you need is one of the curses to fail and its over. see using fear for a 1v1 pvp is pretty lame, 1v2 i used just yesterday and works amazingly, but relying on the fear button for all ur pvp is, just imo, the dumbest thing any nuker can do, see like if u get paraed yep thats really dumb, ur screwed, but with silence my nuker is fast, i can outrun any other nuker unless slowed. so silence just kite the person, fear u cant defend urself and look like an idiot.
Seriously, crying about people using their skills is dumb - really dumb.
What about the Bishop that Trance/Mana burn and then pulls out a focus 2 hander to own you? Is it dumb that they will only attack you when you are basically useless?
No it's called tactics to trivialize the PvP. You talk all that smack on the boards, but if you get to a point where you think you are going to lose the 1v1 and probably 1-4% XP I'm sure you like almost anyone else (if y'all have a clue) will whip out the fear bomb just like anyone else. You can say whatever you want on these boards.
By that logic I say slowin a melee toon (like a dagger) is the dumbest thing ever, since that's about as destructive at fear for them and if they aren't "on you" they basically can't do any damage (accept with a bow but you will most likely outdamage them especially at 77+ with Fire Vortex's debuff).
It hurt to read that :( Capitalize and punctuate IMO.
Nah I never had fear work agains't me, HOWEVER mine worked plenty and it's not fully upgraded yet since I lacked to die in PvE so far so I'm short on sp. However
STun 98% land 70% on Mag (All you Magestic Haters will DIE!)
I can tank a Pheonix Knight level 78 and kill him consistently, even when Anchor resists and me having to recast it. Fear lands consistently. All nukers go +4CON for the most part.
I don't get stunned 98%, not even by players 5-9 levels higher than me with full boss jewels/etc.
You can come with M.Def buffs, and I can lower your M.Def. But if I come with Resist Shock there is no way you can "negate" that buff on me to allow your stun to land more.
You've never had fear work against you? What boss jewels are you wearing? Fear is reliable, moreso than any other lockdown mechanism in the game. Admittedly overpowered...
Fear works nicely even when not upgraded but fear always fails on you? B.S.
I can tank a Pheonix Knight level 78 and kill him consistently, even when Anchor resists and me having to recast it. Fear lands consistently. All nukers go +4CON for the most part.
I don't get stunned 98%, not even by players 5-9 levels higher than me with full boss jewels/etc.
You can come with M.Def buffs, and I can lower your M.Def. But if I come with Resist Shock there is no way you can "negate" that buff on me to allow your stun to land more.
You've never had fear work against you? What boss jewels are you wearing? Fear is reliable, moreso than any other lockdown mechanism in the game. Admittedly overpowered...
Fear works nicely even when not upgraded but fear always fails on you? B.S.
Lmao.
Yep I never been feared. But with my stun I think I'm lucky cause I stun people in s grade, not sure if they had boss jews or not, but my stun is really lucky for me and I'm happy for that. although I wish slow was lucky for me cause I have to fight too many archers. I used to die to archers all the time till I got root but even then there is a good chance of failing but if it lands game over.
Also I believe M def is only good for nukes and that's it, and even then, nukers still hit hardas long as they don't get cancelled
I never fought a sps except on a nuker but I'm pretty sure they will own me before I touch them even if root lands
M.Def does not only work on nukes. Your belief is wrong. The difference between trying to silence a buffed nuker (-MEN) as opposed to a buffed summoner (+MEN + Tallum sometimes) is a huge difference in land rate. Sometimes you basically just can't land it. Fearing a tank (no M.Def passive) as opposed to a nuker (the opposite) is also a huge difference and it's because of the M.Def.
As long as your M.Def is average (+3 Low Grade jewels) you can neutralize a nuker just by getting the applicable resist buffs/songs the same way you can lock down curses by using boss jewels/set bonuses/buffs/OE'd jewels.
OE jewels don't cost a bundle for nothing. If you get slowed as a tank, the nuker will still own you most of the time because of the template tank setups (-STR, affecting land rate on their physical skills) and the lack of M.Def passives which means your M.Def is lower than average (compared to other classes like Summoners, Dancers/Singers, Buffers, Healers, and other Nukers).
A 76+ SPS can 2-3 Shot a high A Grade Nuker if they don't have the applicable resist buffs and their M.Def is average (total M.Def from my Black Ore jewels is same as from a +0 Phoenix Set). Vortex - Nuke - Nuke. Not taking into account their crit rate is noticeably higher than the other nukers becuase their WIT is so high (meaning they benefit the most from crit buffs... crit 80%+ casts is normal for end-game SPS with boss jewels and buffs).
I'm not sure what your saying cause Tanks do get m def passive and I also have a mdef buff which makes my mdef high, but it seems as long as I don't fight a nuker who can shoot off nukers 5 times per second I should be fine, although I think M def really doesn't affect debuffs cause I can debuff a summoner and it can debuff me, I lost once from that due to an anchor landing and I barely escaped with 5% hp left hitting UD as soon as it hits of and healing and draining away. fortunately the drains killed the summon and the summoner's nukers failed a lot but I couldn't think about how much hp he had left.
It's not hard to know when a tank UDs, and AFAIK they cannot chase you.
If you need to UD the first time, you will die when UD wears off and after I've used CP elixir/potions/GHP/QHP and MP Elixir.
Only a dumb nuker stands there nuking a tank in UD. Run out of range, heal up, wait and pwn him when UD wears off.
You need phenominal m.def and/or awesome gear/buffs to resist Curse Fear with any level of consistency. This is known. The skill is imba and people have been complaining about it since Interlude PTS.
Stop tyring to convince me that you are somehow unfearable - you are not.
Pardon me for M.Def comment, you're right.
Can still tank a 78 Phoenix Night and chain fear him, though.
Summoners don't have Anchor, Necros aren't summoners. A necro who cannot kill you when Anchor lands (even if you have a full stack of M.Def buffs) probably wasted more time fiddling around than anything - or doesn't carry Beast Soulshots with him.
Curse Gloom -> Curse Fear -> Anchor -> Servitor Attack -> Chain Death Spike - > /TheEnd
BTW Curse Gloom = -23% M.Def (the more you have, the more it takes) so things like boss jewels/etc. make more of a difference than a buff. Assuming 1.1k M.Def on a buffed tank (slackish assumption), a Necro will have absolutely no trouble landing Curse Fear on anyone with < 800 M.Def as long as he isn't using a skill level that's 15+ levels lower than the tank's level. Anchor will land reliably. If it is resisted, chain fear until it lands again, retry anchor, nuke when anchor is refreshing and while tank is feared. Mass slow for safety (range is 100 more than Anchor's).
Curse Discord is like Betray for DA Summons...
Too bad DC Heavy is LOW A Grade :(
EDIT: What level are you, and what kinda gear did the mages have? +3 Homunkulus?
Nah it was top Agrade and I didn't get feared I got anchored on the first try. How about that? also I don't use boss jews and I haven't had a problem with fear. Just a little with stun and root and anchor is rediculus. BtW I don't really use my panther unless it's convient as I'm too lazy to remember to get some c crystals. But i carry around a pet and beast ss (ironic isn't it?)
The weapon I don't remember exactly as this was awhile ago but I know it wasn't below a grade.
And also yes you can indeed tell when UD is on as it glows around you which sucks for element of surprise Thank You NC Soft.
Why not just ask NCsoft to provide a statistic of how many times a SS loses or wins against a MM in the olympiad, if you guys are so eager to base it on a fair fight. I am guessing that the Olympiad will be as close as you'll ever get! ,o)