"Highlevel Hullabaloo" or "Outta my mind to grind"

Okay...here's the scenario...

You're running into to battle alongside a level 78 Hellknight and a level 76 Sword Muse. The targets are two heroes that are mildly separated from the rest of their team. The Hellknight fires up a hate determined to take the first salvo from the hero team. He gets hit in spades...I counted three shots before he was belly up on the field. The Sword Muse did admirably better..actually got in a few good shots before she was cut down in about three shots as well. Now here I stand...a lowly warlord not yet even level 70 (although darn close, ;)) and I'm last to take the demoralizing beating. I expected it to be a one shot one kill...but to my surprise, it actually took them two shots to finish me off.

Now...in my mind...here's what it looks like...

I can spend the next two or three months grinding for the highest spot I can reach, but why bother when the only thing it will earn me is an extra shot to finish me off in pvp against the current server elite. When dealing with pvp and the like, is it even worth it to shoot for the level 80 when you can still die in two or three hits from an opponent? I only ask this question because whenever you look at one of the Lineage 2 CGI movie they depict these massive battles where the characters have a little staying power in a fight. Now I'm not a noob enough to think that cgi ads are directly comparable to gameplay, but you would think that quick kills would be a bit more nonexistant once you cross the level 75 hump.

I don't know....what do you guys think?


Da Smookster...

Well not really commenting on the grind to level thing because 80 at my level is as far away as the next Century.

All I did think was that in some cases it doesn't matter what level or class you are, one shotted is frequently possible, especially if a mage gets you with a Crit - over 10k damage and almost anyone is going down :D

If you want to achieve 80, got for it. Depending on how you view the game, it's the achievement of the end result, not how long it takes to get there. Yes it's bloody annoying to be what is considered a hi level and go down in a couple of shots but it's not always the case so keep going :cool:

I hear ya. When my team drops before I can target someone for a heal, it gets depressing.

could play a dwarf and last 4 hits but to be fair if they were fully buffed and you werent i doubt you would have much hope

a DD hero should be able to take down at least 2 out of 3 ppl in a ganking depending on what their class is vs the others classes

seriously man 3 ppl vs 2 heroes?
not a chance

3 melee after 2 hero is dumb in the first place. Hero UD, Hero Zerk, Hero Valor all mean gg to you. My method works well, avoid as much 1v1 PvP as possible for 2 weeks, and hope someone shows up come seige weekend, or that there is mass PvP over some raid or such during the week where I can be of value as a simple meat shield. Or you can always go gank subs if that tickles your pickle.

In another popular game today they are experiencing the same problem. Their solution was to stop increasing the damage reults on wepaons and to put increased stamina armors into the game.

They realized that people were leaving because the PVP was not enjoyable.

one hit and done.

What you are describing is different. The current highest level players have unbelievable advantages.

They have done the grind and earned the right to be able to do what they do.

I am hoping that with every day that goes by, more people are capable of joining the fight to earn the right to be heroes so that one group can not manipulate the outcome of matches in order to maximize the amount of heroes they have.

So my opinion would be to continue to grind to that next level.

Perhaps next time that hellknight and/or the muse will be able to get the hero status themselves.

I would imagine the outcome of your fight would be different.

Just do what I do:
"See the glow, time to go."

Just wait til you get hit for over 8k on sieges, even though you're only 1-2 lvls lower than they are.. lol..

They have done the grind and earned the right to be able to do what they do.

I hardly consider paying for power-levelling, RMT and paid farmer-clans for top gear "earning" the right to anything.

To be sure, some heroes got there legitimately... some.

The glow makes some difference, but tbh it's not as huge as most think. It's actually more phsychological than anything.

What you talk about is the number one complaint in the game though, and it's something that drives away customers who have been paying for a long period of time.

The reason for it is that the developers have stacked everything in the game to lean so heavily towards offensive DD's, that they simply crush anything that comes before them.

The chances are good that if you are being 1, 2, or 3 shotted and you're a high HP type that you are going into a fight where the enemy has you totally outbuffed and outgeared. The high end buffs are simply stupid in their effects, and the Boss jewelry makes things an absolute joke on top of that.

The designers appear to have their heads lodged firmly in their [censored] with respect to the supposed balance between offense and defense in this game.

The designers appear to have their heads lodged firmly in their [censored] with respect to the supposed balance between offense and defense in this game.

Acutally I have to disagree with you. The ability to be dfensive in the game is imessuarble. I mena with end game buffs you can last quite a while. There is some bartz pvp vids by a destroyer who literally mows through archers nukers healers in mass pvp. For the rest of the time I believe that Mel, the cook on Alice said it best, "The best defense is a good offense."

The designers appear to have their heads lodged firmly in their [censored] with respect to the supposed balance between offense and defense in this game.

Acutally I have to disagree with you. The ability to be dfensive in the game is imessuarble. I mena with end game buffs you can last quite a while. There is some bartz pvp vids by a destroyer who literally mows through archers nukers healers in mass pvp. For the rest of the time I believe that Mel, the cook on Alice said it best, "The best defense is a good offense."



I take it the archers and mages were not giving the destroyer their all, or he would have been just as dead as anyone else.

Line up the defensive buffs, line up the offensive buffs, compare what they do to your stats. The defensive buffs come out sorely lacking.

Add in the boss jewels and overenchantd skills, the gap grows even wider.

I shouldn't be quite so hard on the Dev's I suppose, since it does appear they have realised their stupidity and are making some attempt to correct it in Interlude. Take a look at the changes in Interlude, along with the general flavor of the skills and you'll see that defense is getting some love.

In answer to Smookie's question though - level is a huge factor in all of the PvP equations in L2. You don't ever see anyone mention it when they show formula's for stuff, but it's definitely in there. So yeah.. leveling up does help immensely.

myself and 2 daggers made a hero bsoe...which is almost as good as a kill. the daggers were both 77 and i was 74, the hero tyrant...i think he was 79, anyway we completly owned him, he didn't die...but he did bsoe.
I don''t run from the glow, i stay. chances are i'm going to die, but atlesat i'm going to try and put a ***** in their armor. Because when i'm hero (hopefully not that far away) peope won't run from me, but then again why would they? i'm just a crappy light elf ><

I shouldn't be quite so hard on the Dev's I suppose, since it does appear they have realised their stupidity and are making some attempt to correct it in Interlude. Take a look at the changes in Interlude, along with the general flavor of the skills and you'll see that defense is getting some love.

lets see, invulnerability skills for a handful of classes, and available to anyone that can "afford" weapon refinement. and phantom rangers, and silver rangers, who already have an easy time with melee, are now immune to melee attacks. their "attempts to correct mistakes" are completely insane.

In answer to Smookie's question though - level is a huge factor in all of the PvP equations in L2. You don't ever see anyone mention it when they show formula's for stuff, but it's definitely in there. So yeah.. leveling up does help immensely.

I don't see how the leveling is really helping though. Granted, me and my cohorts were advancing on some heroes, but are heroes really all that grand? Now the skills they get are pretty good in a skirmish, but I just remember getting hit by a normal attack and not a hero skill. The difference in level couldn't have been much more than 2 levels between the highest person I was was with and our targets. They probably had me by at least 9 levels, so I truly expected the **** that ensued. But for me to only outlast my friends by only one shot...that means that all the grinding they've done to level didn't matter one iota. Maybe I'm using a biased curve here. How does a battle against a high-level mage usually go when the mage isn't a hero? I really want some over 75 people to let me know.


Da Smookster...

In answer to Smookie's question though - level is a huge factor in all of the PvP equations in L2. You don't ever see anyone mention it when they show formula's for stuff, but it's definitely in there. So yeah.. leveling up does help immensely.

I don't see how the leveling is really helping though. Granted, me and my cohorts were advancing on some heroes, but are heroes really all that grand? Now the skills they get are pretty good in a skirmish, but I just remember getting hit by a normal attack and not a hero skill. The difference in level couldn't have been much more than 2 levels between the highest person I was was with and our targets. They probably had me by at least 9 levels, so I truly expected the **** that ensued. But for me to only outlast my friends by only one shot...that means that all the grinding they've done to level didn't matter one iota. Maybe I'm using a biased curve here. How does a battle against a high-level mage usually go when the mage isn't a hero? I really want some over 75 people to let me know.


Da Smookster...



If you notice, everything in L2 is done by small increments. Eventually those increments add up and they have greater meaning.

As far as sieges, I can tell you that if I can target you, I can usually take you out in a few shots, true. However, if I get rooted then a melee can have a pretty good chance of interupting me and taking me out, especially if he is buffed. Archers are a problem too.

So your friends were a few levels higher than you? It's not like they were 20 levels higher than you. Sure, they have their 3rd class skills which might give them a better attack advantage but Heroes are supposed to be able to be hard to take down and have very good skills. One might not agree with this but there it is.

This game has always been about power. Econonmic power, political power and PvP power.

I don't begrudge Heroes their place. I know some say they've cheated to get there but that may or may not be true. but that really doesn't matter.

Let's say that every Hero is really legit (for arguement's sake). Players still have to deal with them. So perhaps instead of 3 rushing a Hero you need 9? Perhaps alliances need to have groups whose sole purpose are to find the Heroes and take them out.

Now, if you are just talking about on the field, group vs group war pvp, well, it is what it is. Just like the lvl 50's who are leveling and find themselves obliterated by the S graders who are at war with them. They might make 6 more levels but will it really matter?

In this game, it's all situational and sometimes the situation just doesn't give you a chance.

So getting back to your question, 76+ nuker really means many different things depending on the nuker.

The last large siege I was at I only died 3 times. But then again, I don't seek out one vs one fights. I wait with my group, stay back and assist off the front line people (tanks, melee, etc).

I don't die a lot not because I'm S grade but because I don't charge into the fray when others can do that so much better. I watch for the daggers weaving in and out of the fight, I try to assist whenever possible because the damage I can do will really help when added with my group's damage.

But other players can take me out if they are smart and they work with their groups.

ok im gonna chip in here since it seems some ppl dont understand what heroes are capable of

for starters when you make hero you get a slight boost to damage in pvp
for me i didnt even notice it so ill ignore that
if anyone wants exact numbers let me know but im too lazy to dig up screenshots right now

first skill heroic miracle
this is basically running ud for me as a dwarf with fairly good jewles and fairly average armor i end up with over 6k pdef and 5k mdef
skill lasts 20 seconds so if you are a mage this is the point you stop nukeing or you are just wasteing mana, if you are an archer keep fireing away and kiteing, if you are melee and think you might have more pots than me keep wacking away but dont waste mp on skills

second skill
heroic berzerker
this is basically self zerk lvl 4
reasonably buffed i end up with something like 2400 pattack 550 pdef and 450 mdef
a great skill to use if you plan on hitting but not getting hit
it looks like zerk when you cast it so if you see that then you should prolly target the hero
i consider this the only useable skill in day to day pve
it lasts 2 minuets

skill 3 heroic valor
this is an alliance buff and increases pattack and pdef by a fixed number not a percentage, something in the region of +500 pattack +500 pdef
it also increases resistance to buff cancelling attacks but ive never had a chance to test that
obviously best used in a gank squad packed full of no-glows but still useful in 1 on 1
skill lasts 2 minuets

before i go into the next 2 skills i want to do a bit of ranting
the hero debuff skills are mattack based should you wish to attempt to land said skills on anyone close to your lvl its a requirement that you have high mattack or they have low mdef
your best bet to land these skills is with a mage weapon and more importantly you must use BSPS, also wouldnt hurt if you have emp/zerk/dance of mystic (or is that conc?)


skill 4 heroic grandeur
Instantly and significantly decreases nearby enemies' P. Def., M. Def., Evasion, and Shield defense probability, and increases the chance of negating the effects of magical damage, and blocks all physical and magic skill effects. Consumes 80 Spirit Ores.
for some reason i have never landed this skill even on lvl 20 toons
cant tell you how effective it is since ive never tried it

skill 5 heroic dread
pretty sure everyone knows this one and its more commonly called hero fear
aoe skill with about 700ish range and if it lands the target runs away with increased run speed and is unable to perform any action until it wears off
i have about a 50% chance to land this on low B grade toons useing a hero weapon and BSPS

all hero skills are based on cast speed so mages will always cast them faster and be able to use them again much sooner

myself and 2 daggers made a hero bsoe...which is almost as good as a kill. the daggers were both 77 and i was 74, the hero tyrant...i think he was 79, anyway we completly owned him, he didn't die...but he did bsoe.
I don''t run from the glow, i stay. chances are i'm going to die, but atlesat i'm going to try and put a ***** in their armor. Because when i'm hero (hopefully not that far away) peope won't run from me, but then again why would they? i'm just a crappy light elf ><

i bsoe on site from high lvl daggers
they have the capability to 2 hit me when i have 15k cp and hp and 6k pdef
meanwhile i hit them for 200 damage 2 out of 3 swings (or 1 out of 10 with ue up)

when ppl say heroes are overpowered what they are really saying is DD heroes are overpowered
noone runs from a dwarf or healer hero

In answer to Smookie's question though - level is a huge factor in all of the PvP equations in L2. You don't ever see anyone mention it when they show formula's for stuff, but it's definitely in there. So yeah.. leveling up does help immensely.

I don't see how the leveling is really helping though. Granted, me and my cohorts were advancing on some heroes, but are heroes really all that grand? Now the skills they get are pretty good in a skirmish, but I just remember getting hit by a normal attack and not a hero skill. The difference in level couldn't have been much more than 2 levels between the highest person I was was with and our targets. They probably had me by at least 9 levels, so I truly expected the **** that ensued. But for me to only outlast my friends by only one shot...that means that all the grinding they've done to level didn't matter one iota. Maybe I'm using a biased curve here. How does a battle against a high-level mage usually go when the mage isn't a hero? I really want some over 75 people to let me know.


Da Smookster...



It depends on his buffs and your buffs. 100%, nothing else matters except buffs.

If the mage has the macdaddy top of the line buffs, expect him to crit 1/4 shots, if you don't have the proper defensive buffs you will be 1shotted for about 13k when it happens.

If the mage just has the regular grind buffs (you gank him) and you have decent (not top of the line) defensive buffs, he gonna hit you for about 1k per shot.

Now it's worth noting that WL's are not your premier 1v1 pvp class. In mass PvP though, you guys are just freaking sick, especially at higher levels.

buffs matter...but jewles matter more.

ROFL you're joking right?

Jewels go without saying...well at least I don't know many people who take thier jewels off to PvE, and then maybe put them back on for PvP.

I suppose you could be talking about Boss jewels.. which are nice against certain debuffs.

well no, i mean people don't really think that OEing jewles is good, they just oe weapons and armor, but oeing jewles or buting them is a great way to boost that mdef. I'm 76 moonlight, and i only have 900mdef...i think that's a joke. I have a +4 maj set, and 2 tat rings(didn't use them yet cause i'm lazy to get themfrom my other toon)

ahh..

Yeah, I agree with you on that point.
I've always thought that NC should do some cool stuff with the jewelry. Why are there no SA's for jewels or even armor?? They should have refinements too them also.

I mean the boss jewels are cool, although stupidly overpowered - I don't think they realised exactly how widespread they were going to be...

i think the whole buff and SS system is broken
what they need to do is redisign the system and add only Defence buff's for the healer class's instant of offence
it will mean that all class's also must be redisigned sinds a Mage without Emp is just half his class just like Warriors without shield and might and SS must be removed from game same like CP pots and Bsoe's
and yeah a HERO is a HERO becose they are like a jedi awsome powerfull a single hero in my eyes is be enabled to kill 9 people whatever class laughing why becose they are a HERO

Agreed...if only the heroes had to EARN the status.

once again not all heroes are powerful
a dwarf hero basically just has 20 seconds of invincibility, self zerk and a 30-50% increase in pattack and pdef for 2 minuets
2 daggers or 2 mages properly played should be sufficient to take one down

mage heroes are bad but with proper resists you can run them out of mana at least

archer heroes are just sick

Root/slow for melee classes to use on ranged keeps needing a major boost and they totally intend to do the opposite...

well they did nerf the duration of slow which is a step in the right direction
root is fairly resistable at third class but considering the effect it has its still prolly not good enough

the problem lies in the huge difference between the damage output of classes
while a glad (same class in pvp triangle as me) can get in range and hit for a few k damage, should i manage to somehow close the 900 range i hit for 200 damage and my target hits me for 400-3k-15,000 damage
i dont even stick around if i see a dagger since they still have the ability to 2 hit me with 15k cp/hp and 6k pdef while i hit them for 2 or 300