I want to knkow if anyone has done any research into finding the base market value for items in Lineage II as set by the NPC stores. If we can determine an actual base price we may be able set prices back to a managble level, eliminate the need for buying adena, and remove all the stupid economist and auto seller bots. I know it is a pipe dreamn and very unlikely to prove true, but i still want to know as much as can be found, so PLEASE hold off on the skepticism and keep to good hard facts or suggestions.
There never was a need to "buy adena". Just idiots who love to give away thier rl money for abosolutely nothing. :p
Btw, if I remember the math correctly, an items sell back price to a NPC store is 1/2 of what its sell price from a NPC store would be, +tax on top of that. I think...
I want to knkow if anyone has done any research into finding the base market value for items in Lineage II as set by the NPC stores. If we can determine an actual base price we may be able set prices back to a managble level, eliminate the need for buying adena, and remove all the stupid economist and auto seller bots. I know it is a pipe dreamn and very unlikely to prove true, but i still want to know as much as can be found, so PLEASE hold off on the skepticism and keep to good hard facts or suggestions.
there never was a need to do that.
base prices for most items are found on [removed] already. just click the market tab, pick your server and your desired product to display the price.
this accounts for the highly OE'd items where npc stores never could. also very valuable items like might mortal daggers, and sa/nonSA'd weapons. to the store, its the same price. ive tried many times OEing and each OE really doesnt raise the npc value of an item. that said, you spend TONS more money on shots doing the quest for the RECIPE ALONE for your a grade. giving it an NPC value would simply defeat the purpose of going to all that trouble. nevermind the ridiculous S grade prices.
Btw, if I remember the math correctly, an items sell back price to a NPC store is 1/2 of what its sell price from a NPC store would be, +tax on top of that. I think...
No taxes. Try to resell for example Thread at Giran or Aden, you will get the same money.
The NPC will offer you always 50% of the base item price, as NC intended a item should be worth.
The NPC will offer you always 50% of the base item price, as NC intended a item should be worth.
The NPC price is not necessarily what NCSoft thinks an item should be worth, it is just double the amount of adena they think you should get if you sell the item to a NPC.
As an example NCSoft probably wants weapons with SAs to be worth more than weapons without (fees to put on the SA). I also imagine NC Soft wants it to be a very bad idea to sell items to the NPCs unless no PC actually wants it. They want to have a player controlled economy and it wouldn't work if selling your old gear to the NPCs was a reasonable option.
I want to knkow if anyone has done any research into finding the base market value for items in Lineage II as set by the NPC stores. If we can determine an actual base price we may be able set prices back to a managble level, eliminate the need for buying adena, and remove all the stupid economist and auto seller bots. I know it is a pipe dreamn and very unlikely to prove true, but i still want to know as much as can be found, so PLEASE hold off on the skepticism and keep to good hard facts or suggestions.
why should I sell enria for 5k (example) when I can easily sell it for 50k? Sorry, Im not going to destroy my profits cause others cant make adena to buy stuff.
See, you my dear are just the type of pathetic, greedy, self absorbed, egotistical player that ruins it for everyne else. Just becasue you feel that since you CAN charge high prices and put the strain on everyone you take as you SHOULD. You are the type of person whos comment I really had no need to see on this discussion. And to answer your question you should sell them for a decent price so that everyone in the game can have the same experience as the greedy selfcentered overpricers and scammers. Why should other ppl suffer, not be able to afford good equipment not be able to lvl efficently and not enjoy the game jsut sop you can feel good that you never have less than 500 million adena and have enough items and equipment to support a clan? I dont know about the other players, but i know that this mentalitity both frustrates and disgusts me.
Edit: The thing with capitalism is that you could also join the "overpricers". Nothing is stopping you from finding something that is currently overpriced (ie. easier to get then the market prices would lead you to believe) and exploiting it.
The thing is - because he can charge high prices and does you also can - thereby easily making the prices he is asking.
Your demand to drop his profits is the exact same as his request to keep the prices as they are, except you're asking someone else to slit their profits while the prices drop, and he's just asking you to start taking opportunities.
No, sorry. It's self-centered to ask people for less than they can get instead of just selling your own and being able to easily pay the prices. The economy 'round here is self-fixing, and the lower the inflation, the harder it is on newcomers.
Why should everyone deserve to have the same experience. If i go out and get lucky with a drop, or spend my time hunting things i can sell at the expense of getting fast xp, why should someone less willing to do this demand that i sell it to them cheaper?
If i get a mat/item/rec or whatever, i will sell it for the maximum price that i can, and use the money to enrich my game experience. There is nothing to stop anyone else from doing the same after all.
Obviously there are exceptions, i frequently give things to clan members, friends etc, but as for anyone else, they pay market price, or higher if they are unwilling to learn market prices, or in too much of a hurry to get the item.
Yeah, Enria is sort of a pain to get anyways. They are expensive, but the demand is there because the supply is lacking. Or moreover, the effort required to put in the get them is more than other materials.
Edit: The thing with capitalism is that you could also join the "overpricers". Nothing is stopping you from finding something that is currently overpriced (ie. easier to get then the market prices would lead you to believe) and exploiting it.
Actually, capitalism is a bit more complex than just "I want to sell for the most I can get". Under capitalism, you want to sell the optimum amount of inventory at the optimal cost. This way you restock your inventory and pocket your product.
You could sit down for 1 month selling 10000 Enria at 150k each, and eventually sell them. A true capitalist would sit down with his 10000 Enria, with a price of 11,500, sell out in an hour or less, go replenish his Enria stock, sit down for another hour, replenish stock...etc. In the span of 1 month, trader A has 1.5 billion, while trader B has 4.7 trillion in adena. (This is of course assuming that there is no further competition for trader B, like someone sitting down next to him that is willing to sell his 10000 Enria for 10,750, or someone next to trader C willing to sell for 9,999)
Its a shame in game economy does not work that easily.
Edit: The thing with capitalism is that you could also join the "overpricers". Nothing is stopping you from finding something that is currently overpriced (ie. easier to get then the market prices would lead you to believe) and exploiting it.
Actually, capitalism is a bit more complex than just "I want to sell for the most I can get". Under capitalism, you want to sell the optimum amount of inventory at the optimal cost. This way you restock your inventory and pocket your product.
You could sit down for 1 month selling 10000 Enria at 150k each, and eventually sell them. A true capitalist would sit down with his 10000 Enria, with a price of 11,500, sell out in an hour or less, go replenish his Enria stock, sit down for another hour, replenish stock...etc. In the span of 1 month, trader A has 1.5 billion, while trader B has 4.7 trillion in adena. (This is of course assuming that there is no further competition for trader B, like someone sitting down next to him that is willing to sell his 10000 Enria for 10,750, or someone next to trader C willing to sell for 9,999)
Its a shame in game economy does not work that easily.
This is the way it is currently working in L2.
I have bolded the step where your model is missing a major cost, the amount of time/effort required to replenish traders B stock (the "opportunity cost" if you have taken any econ). Trader B would spend a lot more more time/effort getting enria than trader A, so trader A could be making a lot more money. What if trader A is farming Sg weapon parts while trader B is farming enria?
If someone has more enria then they can sell they lower the price as they want to move that enria. The problem is that the amount of effort required for trader B to keep enria in-stock when selling that volume at that price could be better spent acquiring more valuable items. The seller raises the enria price until the sell rate=creation rate.
If you ever find an item where this isn't true you should make a lot of it, undersell everyone by a little bit, and start raking in the adena. Other sellers would probably lower their prices to match you until it is no longer profitable for them to compete with you. If it is still profitable for you to be in that market after underselling everyone you have found your niche.
See, you my dear are just the type of pathetic, greedy, self absorbed, egotistical player that ruins it for everyne else. Just becasue you feel that since you CAN charge high prices and put the strain on everyone you take as you SHOULD. You are the type of person whos comment I really had no need to see on this discussion. And to answer your question you should sell them for a decent price so that everyone in the game can have the same experience as the greedy selfcentered overpricers and scammers. Why should other ppl suffer, not be able to afford good equipment not be able to lvl efficently and not enjoy the game jsut sop you can feel good that you never have less than 500 million adena and have enough items and equipment to support a clan? I dont know about the other players, but i know that this mentalitity both frustrates and disgusts me.
LOL do you think he alone sets the price, or that sellers push prices higher? When two people are shouting to buy 10,000 animal bones and there are only 10,000 in town, it starts a bidding war. Prices grow to meet the best possible price you can charge and still sell all your items quickly. This is a function of how much adena a player has, how many items he needs, and how many people are in town with that item.
It is the very basis of any commodity market, but we have several systems to regulate those prices (manors, NPCs, full drops, 60% crafts, overenchanting). I am a legit player of 3 years running, at only level 74, I have 2 A grade sets, 2 A grade SAd weapons, and a good 300+ M adena lying around. The reason enria is expensive for you is because I don't mind paying 50k to get them all. I don't care if I buy them all and there are none left for you. That isn't my problem; I have the adena from crafting and hunting.
Yep there is simply not enough supply of enria for everyone. So the richer ones can get them. It is unfair IF the buyers got their adena by breaking the rules (EULA), and unfortunately it happens a lot. I wish they would get dealt with, because I don't like cheaters and because it would help lowering prices, but the ingame economy itself is run by players and regulates itself.
Think of the good side of it : if the prices are high it means you can get a lot of money from these materials. If you're asking for free enria without doing anything for it (farming, trading, manoring) then you didn't understand what L2 is.
Everytime you pickup a material, it doesnt go to your inventory, but to a server inventory.
Everytime you do the manor, you dont get the materials for the seeds, but the server gets em.
After a period of time, the materials collected from the server are equaly shared with all players on the server.
Doesnt this sounds fair? Well, yes, it is fair. Thats part of the idea of socialism. Too bad that this is just in theory working. The second you place a human being into this system, is the second the system collaps.
I dont need to point to political examples, lets take a look at the P2P world. Everyone gives something, everyone gets something. Nice idea. But then, we place a human into it and we have a leecher. He DL a lot, but then takes the files out of share (= he gives a little).
So, while P2P users cry **** leechers, L2 user would cry **** non-manors (or whatever). Because some ppl may donate thousands of mats, some will donate 0 mats. But since both get the same out of it, after a while the ppl would complain.
P2P systems invented the ratio-system (ppl that share more are more welcome), so we would need some similar system.
And just btw, that point of viewing has some equal parts in the nationalism. Current P2P systems share some points of the idea of the national-socialsim.
The german word for national-socialism is NAtionalsoZIalismus.
Do you want to be called a **** from here on?
I think not, so lets keep the capitalism. Its a working system (and you know, never change a running system).
Unlike the real world, in L2 everyone got a good chance of making a [censored] of money in no time. Take a closer look on the market, and try to imagine every single item there is some kind of stock. If you see something cheap, buy it. Even if you dont need it. Maybe you can sell it for profit next week (well, maybe not, there is everytime a risk if you deal with stocks y'know ^.^).
I know, some ppl say again and again they cant play the market, but thats not true imo, they dont want to do it. Yes, some ppl who do this for a long time now do it better, right, but that doesnt mean you cant do that aswell.
Once you got used to the system, things like money or farming become meaningless for you.
Play the market, earn cash, and buy as much enria as you need (that way you also the seller with his "playin the market").
Just like to point out that selling too slow if you ask a price too high is exactly what happens in L2. People do undercut (I generally set up shop below the lowest competitor), and people selling (relative to market value which is usually determined by hassle of acquisition) overpriced goods sit on their wares.
If Enria were really as easy to get as 5k at a high level (say, by dropping every fourth mob or so), then I'm sure demanding that people sell it for 5k might be reasonable.
Too bad that this is just in theory working. The second you place a human being into this system, is the second the system collaps.
It's not a game with only humans.
There are Dwarves too. Think of them. Who would want to play a spoiler?
Bad idea sorry, it wouldn't even be fair in the first place.
So yep, use your brain and make your way through the market.
Well, somehow I think you didnt understand me in that point or I dont understand you ^.^;;
From my point, the Bounty Hunter would be glad his spoils go to the community, since he is helping more with his spoils. Its about working for a common goal, not for one self (quote Spock "The need of the many outweight the need of the few"; quote Kirk "or the one.").
Well, somehow I think you didnt understand me in that point or I dont understand you ^.^;;
From my point, the Bounty Hunter would be glad his spoils go to the community, since he is helping more with his spoils. Its about working for a common goal, not for one self (quote Spock "The need of the many outweight the need of the few"; quote Kirk "or the one.").
But like I said, ppl are not that way.
It can work in a clan scale (I try to make it work in my clan, it's not bad but doesn't work 100% yet), but it won't work at server scale, for the reasons you mentioned.
See, you my dear are just the type of pathetic, greedy, self absorbed, egotistical player that ruins it for everyne else. Just becasue you feel that since you CAN charge high prices and put the strain on everyone you take as you SHOULD. You are the type of person whos comment I really had no need to see on this discussion. And to answer your question you should sell them for a decent price so that everyone in the game can have the same experience as the greedy selfcentered overpricers and scammers. Why should other ppl suffer, not be able to afford good equipment not be able to lvl efficently and not enjoy the game jsut sop you can feel good that you never have less than 500 million adena and have enough items and equipment to support a clan? I dont know about the other players, but i know that this mentalitity both frustrates and disgusts me.
LOL do you think he alone sets the price, or that sellers push prices higher? When two people are shouting to buy 10,000 animal bones and there are only 10,000 in town, it starts a bidding war. Prices grow to meet the best possible price you can charge and still sell all your items quickly. This is a function of how much adena a player has, how many items he needs, and how many people are in town with that item.
It is the very basis of any commodity market, but we have several systems to regulate those prices (manors, NPCs, full drops, 60% crafts, overenchanting). I am a legit player of 3 years running, at only level 74, I have 2 A grade sets, 2 A grade SAd weapons, and a good 300+ M adena lying around. The reason enria is expensive for you is because I don't mind paying 50k to get them all. I don't care if I buy them all and there are none left for you. That isn't my problem; I have the adena from crafting and hunting.
Luke hit the nail on the head.
Prices are high because there is alot of adena out there. I'm in the same boat. The price I pay is directly related to how badly I want something. I have plenty of adena lying around and to be honest, if Enrias are the last thing I need to craft a weapon, and I am in a hurry, the difference between 40k and 55k is insignificant to me.
When I buy and sell things, the first factor that affects my price is how fast I want to sell it.
Take shots as an example. I had some excess A crystals (we won't talk about that..lol) so I figured I would craft some shots to get rid of them. I have plenty of adena, so I'm in no hurry at all to get rid of them. Plus, crafting shots is a pain in the ***, and I don't want to spend 3 hours doing it every day in order to keep my shop going.
So.. my shot prices are the highest in the area.
I still sell them, I just don't move the volume that the shot crafting pros move. I make more money per sale though, so there's a good chance that they really aren't making much more than me. This is even more pronounced when you account for the fact that my play time is valuable and I don't want to spend it clicking "craft" - if the other guy wants to spend 20 hrs per week making shots, more power to him. I'll pass on that thanks!
The example above with the 2 enria dealers is a good one, except the person left out the most important part of the equation. There is no sense in pricing yourself low and selling out quickly, making less profit, unless you have something else to sell to make money, or unless you can restock with more enrias quickly. If it takes 3 days to collect 1000 enrias, why sell them in one day. Better to sell them in 3 days, so that right when you have sold the last one, you are restocking. That way you are getting the most amount of adena for your time spent collecting.
To the OP.
The only way prices will ever return to the base game price is if a huge amount of adena is removed from the system. And I mean a HUGE amount.. like 90% of the adena on the server.
The thought here is, how did the prices get to this point?
I left game for over a year, when I returned I shook my head as I looked about at the prices.
Can it return to previous status?
Well what I see now is less movement due to the removal of the drop items in death. Now once you have you equipment, you have little chance of losing it. I have begun to see prices go down, this due to supply and demand. So, is adena really disappearing and moving out and in as it should now?
Well time will tell if the market improves more. You see in real world when a item first comes into the market it is at top price, after those willing to pay 20,000 dollars for a 50" TV have bought it, the market price drops or the TV would just stop selling. Now you should see, and use to see prices drop to get the next segment to buy. What I saw when I return was no drop to get to the next segment, drop rates in PvP ment you had a steady supply of 20,000 TV buyers no need to adjust the market. Believe it or not Mats are in close range of where they always where. But since manor system all player at least have a way to obtain them. If a player chooses not to play the Manor system or a spoiler then they now chose to pay market price. Though I know the outragous prices where started by those that slected to use their RL funds, now you can see that without drop ratio this is not hold such a hugh hand on things. NcSoft I believe did this to bring some control back to things. It is a slow process but it is beginning to show effect.
To the OP.
The only way prices will ever return to the base game price is if a huge amount of adena is removed from the system. And I mean a HUGE amount.. like 90% of the adena on the server.
Well guys... don't you understand that any reduction in adena prices of mats that caused not by making their production cheaper in labour costs will actually reduce supply of the mats on the market?
as entertaining as all you guys seem to be to me with all this talk about how the spoils should be shared your forgetting one minor detail in this matter the poor old spoiler if all spoils go to a common ware house spoilers stop spoiling and if they go to a clan ware house you will end up with spoilers leaving clans and going away to setup their own little clans so they get to keep all their spoils which i wouldnt blame them for at all
RampantLiones
A GOOD WAR SMITH IS AN HONOURABLE ONE :)
Sith is wonderful at ecconomics, real master of them. its all supply and demand, or so he thinks, and i (as a dwarf) will do what is in my best intrests when selling an item, he is absolutely true. however, i define my self intrests differently. i sell mats to my clannies for NPC value, i give key mats freely. sure it leaves me dirt poor. but every dagger that i work hard to get, that i sell to an enemy, will eventually stab me in the back. so really, i am serving my intrests. WTS enria for 6k, but not to you.
See, you my dear are just the type of pathetic, greedy, self absorbed, egotistical player that ruins it for everyne else. Just becasue you feel that since you CAN charge high prices and put the strain on everyone you take as you SHOULD. You are the type of person whos comment I really had no need to see on this discussion. And to answer your question you should sell them for a decent price so that everyone in the game can have the same experience as the greedy selfcentered overpricers and scammers. Why should other ppl suffer, not be able to afford good equipment not be able to lvl efficently and not enjoy the game jsut sop you can feel good that you never have less than 500 million adena and have enough items and equipment to support a clan? I dont know about the other players, but i know that this mentalitity both frustrates and disgusts me.
Capitalism -- the 'invisible hand of the market' -- exists. You can dislike it if you want, but it's about as useful as disliking gravity -- neither is going to go away because you don't like it. So rather than wasting effort hating an economic inevitability, use it to make your own profit. Supply and demand dictate price -- any goods that are priced substantially below that point will vanish from the market instantly as players snap them up, so they don't do you much good unless you're the lucky one to do the snapping.
So rather than wasting effort hating an economic inevitability, use it to make your own profit.
Exactly.
Everybody here knows how much i hate the L2 economy system, but i've learned to use it to my own advantage...
To me, the Manor and everything just bores me to death, so it all comes down to one single thing : i sell very high. And yes, there is always someone to buy from me.
I've created a Dwarf alt to spoil for rare recipies (thanx to my Clanmates for the tip, although it includes a lot of delevelling to the Guards to stay in the spoil range :p) which i sell very high ; once i dont need my equipment anymore (which i've tried to buy as low as possible) i sell it very high ; and back in my Teon days i even did some quests where you gain sellable items (baby pets, hatchlings, ...) and, yes you guessed it, i sold them very high just sitting next to the Pet Manager dude :D
I know that by doing that i may contribute to the overall inflation of the market, and i know that it may mostly be ebayers that buy from me (who in their right mind would pay 300k or 400k to get a Hatchling ?), but to be honnest i dont give a **** because, once again, this ridiculous economy system has been designed from the start to allow things like that. Hm, let me even rephrase : it has been designed from the start to encourage things like that.
And it's not like cheating or anything, it's only supply and demand, i like to think that i'm not too dumb so i just use this economy system to make my own profit...