Which was posted on 2/7/2007 it says that Lineage and Lineage 2 series have been doing as well as Guild Wars while everything else pretty much flopped.
If the biggest growth is from Lineage and Lineage 2 in North America and Europe:
"NCsoft explained that sales have remained constant year to year due to continuing success with existing products such as Lineage® and Lineage II. The drop in net profit resulted from increased investment in development to expand the company’s game portfolio and drive future growth. Moreover, the company reported that the results included the one-time write-off related to Auto Assault®, recorded during the second quarter of 2006.
Brisk sales of Lineage and Lineage II and the successful launch of Guild Wars Nightfall™ led to fourth quarter 2006 consolidated sales of KRW 90.2 billion (US$96.1 million), operating profit of KRW 15.4 billion (US$16.4 million), pre-tax profit of KRW 17.7 billion (US$18.8 million) and net profit of KRW 18.7 billion (US$19.9 million). This compared to the previous quarter sales of KRW 84.9 billion (US$90.5 million), operating profit of KRW 17.4 billion (US$18.5 million), pre-tax profit of KRW 18.2 billion (US$19.4) and net profit of KRW 12.8 billion (US$13.6 million). This is an increase in sales of 6% while operating profit and pre-tax profit dropped 12% and 3% respectively. Net income increased 46% due to a tax credit for Research and Development."
according to the excerpt above from the linked article, why is it that NCSOFT to this day has NEVER shown any interest at all of really marketting the Lineage and Lineage 2 titles in North America and Europe?
I mean from a pure business standpoint and if I was a stockholder and read that report and measured that with how much advertising North America and Europe has done so far for the Lineage series, I'd FIRE both the North American and European companies and replace them with people who actually KNEW how to MARKET and ADVERTOSE their 2 biggest game titles?
no they doing good on the L1 & L2 product
if a company did not do so great on their products you will not see so fast a "Upgrade" (C5) (Interlude) things like that
The only reason they're doing well is because of the korean market, which is shrinking as well. The NA market is fairly constant, but really does need advertisement BIG TIME. Noone knows about the game, there's never a high enough influx of new players for them to party up together.
lol there is a local magazine were i live called Edge. A lot of ppl buy it. It had and elven female character in it recentley and i got excited :)
:mad: i never saw much about lineage 2 in it though.
The OP is 100% correct. Here in the UK MMORPGs begin and end with WoW, with SecondLife getting a lot of coverage in The Times for some reason. The most I have ever seen in a games mag (forget mainstream media) about L2 was 2 paragraphs. Truly pathetic, considering it's the best game evah!!! :/
Yep. these threads come and go here. I've not seen one that got a response from Mistyl or any other involved with the company.
Cause we all wanna know -why- is there no advertising?
This game is awsome and deserves a huge player base. i wanna see what it wouldbe like if the servers really were crowded in all areas.
If only they got their artists and some funds togther and ran a halfway decent marketing campaign L2 would be much more succesful in NA. I normally see a WoW commerical on Tv or Ad in a magazine every few days or so and check out their NA playerbase, gf.
because if they had massive coverage on this game they would have to start answering them embarresing questions like how much money does ebaying truly generate and how much money do you make from allowing a million or so bots into the game etc etc
RampantLiones
A GOOD WAR SMITH IS AN HONOURABLE ONE :)
because if they had massive coverage on this game they would have to start answering them embarresing questions like how much money does ebaying truly generate and how much money do you make from allowing a million or so bots into the game etc etc
RampantLiones
A GOOD WAR SMITH IS AN HONOURABLE ONE :)
Oh yeah...because that doesn't happen at all in other MMOs...
And extra income wouldn't allow hiring/development of staff/software to combat the problem.
I just put it down to a simple fact its not a NA company and they have very little interest in that market, so they set up a server and just let nature take it course with close to zero interest, so any money made is just a nice extra
really poor company structure but WoWs owners must be rubbing their hands together daily at NCs lack interest
Oh don't get me started on NC's lack of advertising, it's my biggest gripe.
The potential for a massive audience is huge, the reality is they just don't bother.
Never understood why. If it was my company I would want to push it. I appreciate that Aion is underway and most likely the next big push but so what?
L2 has a faithful audience and advertising would just bring in more. Aion will have it's own audience (some will be L2 players) but people put work into this game (some do anyways) and are unlikely to completely abandon it when something else comes out.
Many people play more than one online game therefore with effort NC will have it's Audience x2.
100% agree, but i also think that many of them play. conclusion: they care more about the game while they are playing it, than while they are doing work.
"The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 35% and 36%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 22% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 6%." - article mentioned above
with a statement like that, id start to wonder if advertisement is really a good thing. what they need to do is look that the TYPE of advertisement they're doing. merchandise related to L2 > L2 poster.
with a statement like that, id start to wonder if advertisement is really a good thing. what they need to do is look that the TYPE of advertisement they're doing. merchandise related to L2 > L2 poster.
As things stand at the moment they could give away a free badge in a cereal box - it would still be an improvement on the advertising they have now
I tend to believe that L2 players love this game more than NC Soft does.
Considering how the game is designed (graphics, music...) I feel like only the developers (E&G) and players (at least a part) really love the game.
Back to the topic :
- It's a game for hardcore gamers compared to 2nd life and even WoW I think
- Maybe they should pay more attention to what fresh new players will meet when they first join the game (I'm thinking of DE village), before trying to get more new players. It really wouldn't give a serious image of the company.
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
For the WoW fans, the levelling speed sucks, the PvP sucks, the raids suck, the gear sucks, and the cookie-cutter/carbon-copy classes suck.
For the EQ and Vanguard fans,the crafting sucks, the lore sucks, the gear sucks, the customization sucks, the race/class structure sucks, the PvP sucks.
For the GW fans, the grind sucks, the party-required playstyle sucks, the cookie-cutter classes suck.
For the EVE and AO fans, the swords & sorcery thing sucks.
L2 is a niche game. Fortunately, it happens to fill a niche that all of us here fit into. The game does not, however, appeal to all, isn't designed to, and never will.
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
For the WoW fans, the levelling speed sucks, the PvP sucks, the raids suck, the gear sucks, and the cookie-cutter/carbon-copy classes suck.
For the EQ and Vanguard fans,the crafting sucks, the lore sucks, the gear sucks, the customization sucks, the race/class structure sucks, the PvP sucks.
For the GW fans, the grind sucks, the party-required playstyle sucks, the cookie-cutter classes suck.
For the EVE and AO fans, the swords & sorcery thing sucks.
L2 is a niche game. Fortunately, it happens to fill a niche that all of us here fit into. The game does not, however, appeal to all, isn't designed to, and never will.
That is the absolute best way that I have ever heard it put.
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
For the WoW fans, the levelling speed sucks, the PvP sucks, the raids suck, the gear sucks, and the cookie-cutter/carbon-copy classes suck.
For the EQ and Vanguard fans,the crafting sucks, the lore sucks, the gear sucks, the customization sucks, the race/class structure sucks, the PvP sucks.
For the GW fans, the grind sucks, the party-required playstyle sucks, the cookie-cutter classes suck.
For the EVE and AO fans, the swords & sorcery thing sucks.
L2 is a niche game. Fortunately, it happens to fill a niche that all of us here fit into. The game does not, however, appeal to all, isn't designed to, and never will.
That's always been my thought as well.
This game doesn't have to have a huge playerbase. What it does have to have is an ever evolving and improving gameplay system that can sustain a set amount of players as well as allow new and lower lvl players to be a part of the game.
Instead of New lands with more grind I would have loved to see NC address the disparity of lvls in sieges as there are many people who would love to partake in a siege but aren't 71+ and could stand up to any onslaught. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be something for them to do.
What about revitalizing the old areas?
Making the 7 signs a better competition? Working on the healer/buffer classes?
All they have to do is bring in enough money to maintain the game and allow it to grow...
However... since they are also a publicly traded company, they also have another huge issue. They need to keep their investors happy.
If they are not sustaining some level of growth with enough investment in the product pipeline, they can get into huge trouble with their investors.
So what that means for L2 in the future? Well, it's anyone's guess. It is a niche game here but has a lot more people in Korea.
Wardancer hits the nail
most people think it's to hardcore whatever that means
for average gamer they wanna get it easy and are to lassy for this game.
it takes a sertain type of player to play and maintain discipline and patience to get to level 75 without the automatic friends.
lol and how can you base this assumption? I seriously don't understand how people can generalize with statements like "most people" when there are close to 400 million people in the U.S. alone.Have you talked to even 300 million people to base your "closeness" statement on? Where are you pulling that from? Maybe somewhere where the sun don't shine, but nothing based on facts and thats for **** sure.
There is a stereotype out there that believes Lineage 2 is a hard core game filled with grind, but thats the ONLY advertising thats been seriously made for Lineage 2, which has been Word of Mouth, that went very bad very fast. Heck, Lineage 2 still has the same stereotypes out there as it did in Beta. Most people still think of it this way because there hasn't been any advertising or marketting saying how the game has wonderfully improved.
BTW this is the same problem that Vanguard is facing now. When you release an unpolished game your gonna get blasted. *hint* don't release Lineage 3 until its ready.
Think about it. we have 100,000 active users at the highest, which isnt even .01% of the entire population of North America, which is pathetic.
WoW has 8million+ and growing (with new players). Don't you believe those TV adds you are seeing for WoW is making an impact at all?
I believe with some adequate advertising and TV adds, Lineage 2 could have achieved 10x the playerbase as it has now, if it was done correct from the beginning.
Heck, most people STILL don't even know what game Lineage 2 is when you ask them. The first thing out of their mouth is...
I am not about to waste my time explaining how many ways you are wrong BlazerX. Just know that "steaming pile of logic" still applies to everything you have to say for yourself... and that it was epitomized with the word "ADVERTOSE".
I am not about to waste my time explaining how many ways you are wrong BlazerX. Just know that "steaming pile of logic" still applies to everything you have to say for yourself... and that it was epitomized with the word "ADVERTOSE".
Bhodosativa hmm I don't know if I should be honored that a rarely seen forum troll decides to post or to be weirded out since he keeps saying "steaming pile of logic" and am not sure how to take that?
Is it an insult? If it is an insult, was he not smart enough to come up with something with more...hmm..impact? Exactly what is a "steaming pile of logic" and what does he have against logic in general? Maybe he is just insane and sanity irks him?
ol and how can you base this assumption? Sure thats the stereotype out there, that Lineage 2 is a hard core game filled with grind, ...
but it still IS a hardcore game filled with grind o.O
Then how do you explain original EQ having close to 500,000+ people when it was released and a long time after that and STILL had one of the hardest "grinds" in a MMORPG?
I'm sure people who have played EQ pre Kunark and even Velious know what I'm talking about.
There is a stereotype out there that believes Lineage 2 is a hard core game filled with grind, but thats the ONLY advertising thats been seriously made for Lineage 2, which has been Word of Mouth, that went very bad very fast. Heck, Lineage 2 still has the same stereotypes out there as it did in Beta. Most people still think of it this way because there hasn't been any advertising or marketting saying how the game has wonderfully improved.
The game is not fundamentally different now than it was in Beta. There's some different ways to grind, but it's still grind. There's some new gear, but each grade still offers an extremely limited selection. To put that in perspective, my EQ2 character has thrown away more unique breastplates than exist in the entirety of L2... and I've only been playing EQ2 for a few months.
WoW has 8million+ and growing (with new players). Don't you believe those TV adds you are seeing for WoW is making an impact at all?
No, I don't.
They might get people to try the game out, but that isn't what's keeping them there. What keeps people in WoW is the fact that it can appeal to the broadest range of potential subscribers possible. It could also be said that the game appeals to the lowest common denominator as well, though these statements really are synonymous.
In L2, the casual player will never get anywhere. If you can only play 1-2 hours a day, at most, and average no more than 6-10 hours of play time in a week, you will be frustrated with L2 very quickly. You'll be stuck in the same gear, fighting the same mobs, seeing the same places (though the inside of 1 Cata looks pretty much the same as another) week in and week out, as your not-so-casual clanmates out-level and out-gear you.
WoW is very much different from that. Sure, to be "uber" in the end-game, you need to raid, raid, raid for all that top gear... but not everyone needs to be quite that uber to have fun, so long as they are provided a real sense of accomplishment for their grind. New skills, new gear, new shiny gee-gaw. L2 does not provide this frequently. WoW, and to a greater or lesser extent most other, more popular MMOs, do. WoW's ease of play, cartoony-but-pleasant (to some) graphics, intuitive controls and easy-to-learn mechanics allow the game to appeal to kids, moms, dads, working parents, casual players, PvP fans, PvE fans, and everything in between... and thus they get the subscribers.
L2... is counter-intuitive, difficult to learn the true mechanics of, and features a whole lot of boring, repetitive gameplay for very little immediate gain. For example, if I went out and killed 500 mobs in EQ2, like I did last weekend with my alt for the Maille Lizardman quest, I could expect no fewer than a dozen outstanding drops for the level range.
In L2, I got nothing but a few basic mats. I question the worthiness of this quest, especially upon completion thereof.
You might be interested to know that Lineage 1 was the most popular MMO in the world, with more subscribers (by far) than any other, and this was in the heyday of EQ1, UO and DAOC.
Guess what the most popular MMO in Korea (and the world) is right now?
This talk about L2 being a niche game that isnt for everyone... yeah i guess i agree with that.
Those of you wou say it wont get tons of more ppl by advertising, there i totaly disagree.
If L2 has got 100k players that likes the niche that it is said to be, without ever been exposed to any other advertise than mouth to mouth.How in the world would there not be more players with advertising??
Think of it..
If i'm wrong and advertising would not atleast 5x all the population.. Well then i strongly doubt that we have 100k "real" players that likes the niche-grind-hardcore-pvp-game that it is.
Oh oh.. one more thing: Did they adverise the Korean L2 ?
Cause that could explain why they have so many more subscribers.
BlazerX... you are too ignorant to waste time with.
You are pointing your finger when there is nothing to point at. Lineage ][ is a franchise. L][ NA is run by a subsidiary. Executive decisions are made locally (NA), not in Korea. Just the same... if they particularly cared about the NA market... they would shell out and market the game themselves. They wouldn't leave it up to NCNA... which they obviously did. If you even understood the concept of a franchise... you would know how stupid it was to suggest what you did. What happens here is inconsequential. They translated this game many times... and it is played in many different countries.... do you honestly think that they are relying on the NA market in any sort of capacity? No. For better or worse... the only ones responsible for the NA market are the ones who run it.
When Cartoon Network's marketing campaign of ATHF went awry.. who was responsible? The President/ CEO of Turner, or Cartoon Network? Moving on.
As far as marketing goes... you don't know the impact it would have. You fail to realize that this game does not pander to the casual player. The user base is very specific, and without the proper FANBOY factor in NA/EU, it will never do as well as WoW... no matter how much they advertise. You say it's their fault for not putting it out there... yet you DON'T KNOW how much it would have cost... or if it would have yielded profit ( by the way, anything over 20% is a SMASHING SUCCESS ). According to those reports... it may have very well put them in the red. The game is several years old and you want to invest serious cash in advertising it? Sounds irresponsible if you ask me. Especially for a game that already has a weak user base in America. I would ask if you, as a shareholder, if you would invest cash out of your pocket to advertise for an MMO in the NA market with only 100,000 subscribers... but you, as ignorant as you are, would obviously say yes.
Humor me for a bit. If it tanked... who would you "fire" then? Since you like pointing your finger... would you fire yourself?
Bhodosativa, I fully understand now why you keep saying "steaming pile of logic" to my posts. It seems yours are quite empty of it. I know its very hard for you to try to reason when you have been so unreasonable all this while, so let me make it easy and break out your posts for you so that you can't ever try to reason again and hurt yourself trying to think.
First off, here is the definition of FRANCHISE from dictionary.com.
#2 the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
Do you see that word "MARKET" there? Now if I were you I'd just keep quiet since you just proved you have no clue what your talking about.
Also, NCSOFT NA isn't a franchise. So first off your logic is flawed and your are misinformed. NCSOFT is a subsidiary.
Here is the meaning of a subsidiary from dictionary.com:
1. serving to assist or supplement; auxiliary; supplementary.
2. subordinate or secondary: subsidiary issues.
In other words, NCSOFT NA is still part of NCSOFT Korea, just not the main branch. This is another point to show how inept you are at research.
hmm Cartoon Network, lol I don't really watch it much. But I'm sure given your state of mind, you watch it religiously.
As far as marketting goes and the perverse logic you apply to it, so what your saying is why bother to advertise when you know its going to fail?
Then my question is how the **** would you know if it would fail? Can you see the future? One must try before one can give up. If one gives up before he tries, hes a lame, dumb ****. Hence my point.
Really, don't try to think again. Your "steaming pile of logic" remarks befits you as you have shown how intelligent you definitely are.
Bhodosativa, I fully understand now why you keep saying "steaming pile of logic" to my posts. It seems yours are quite empty of it. I know its very hard for you to try to reason when you have been so unreasonable all this while, so let me make it easy and break out your posts for you so that you can't ever try to reason again and hurt yourself trying to think.
baseless flame
First off, here is the definition of FRANCHISE from dictionary.com.
Good. You need to know this info
#2 the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
Do you see that word "MARKET" there? Now if I were you I'd just keep quiet since you just proved you have no clue what your talking about.
Why should I keep quiet? I knew that Lineage ][ NA was localized and ran by a subsidiary... you didn't. You, as a NC korea shareholder, pointed your finger to NCNA and wanted to fire them for "with people who actually KNEW how to MARKET and ADVERTOSE their 2 biggest game titles"
Also, NCSOFT NA isn't a franchise. So first off your logic is flawed and your are misinformed. NCSOFT is a subsidiary.
What? I said Lineage ][ was a franchise... not NCsoft NA. I told you L][ NA is ran by a subsidiary. Swing and a miss, eh?
Here is the meaning of a subsidiary from dictionary.com:
Good. You looked up another word!
1. serving to assist or supplement; auxiliary; supplementary.
2. subordinate or secondary: subsidiary issues.
In other words, NCSOFT NA is still part of NCSOFT Korea, just not the main branch. This is another point to show how inept you are at research.
How does this prove me inept? You obviously missed the point of subsidiaries entirely. It is part of NC Korea.. but IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL COMPANY... and they make all of the decisions you're complaining about locally.
hmm Cartoon Network, lol I don't really watch it much. But I'm sure given your state of mind, you watch it religiously.
Way to shove another baseless flame in there, all the while proving your ignorance of local events. This scare WAS MAJOR NEWS. Millions in damage was dealt when they shut highways/ bridges down. But I digress. You missed the point... used it as a cheap shot... no reason to explain myself here.
As far as marketting goes and the perverse logic you apply to it, so what your saying is why bother to advertise when you know its going to fail?
Then my question is how the **** would you know if it would fail? Can you see the future? One must try before one can give up. If one gives up before he tries, hes a lame, dumb ****. Hence my point.
I am a graphic designer. A freelancer. An artist for hire. This is my industry. I know what questions to ask myself, and what type of risks to take. Your rant was cute... but you don't know what you're talking about. It's easy to front when it isn't your money on the line. Specialists, R&D departments, focus groups, TRENDS, are all indicative of what the future will bring. Beyond this... I am also an online gamer. A mod at several gaming forums.. including L2blah. I know my market. Not that this even matters. My point was that WE DONT KNOW what is going on... and taking a stance is just stupid.
Really, don't try to think again. Your "steaming pile of logic" remarks befits you as you have shown how intelligent you definitely are.
Cheers.
Your post amounted to nothing but mudslinging and ignorance. How you huffed up your chest with a faux sense of bravado is beyond me. Everything about this post was ridiculous. You proved your ignorance, agreed with me, contradicted yourself, and ranted all in one.. steaming pile... and this is why you are a waste of time. I did like the way you ignored my points in favor of chances to flame though. I hope to see another amazing post by you.
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
Mostly they quit because there's noone to play with, too few joining, things move too slow.
In reality this game has a lot to offer people, even the average gamer...remember when L2 started? People said it wouldn't become larger because of the exact same reasons and today its 4 times larger than it used to be. L2 could easily be bigger in NA and Europe,, much bigger. It simply comes down to an unwillingness of NCSoft NA to spend the money and effort (which would be considerable) on a game which is much better at making them excess money to fund other projects.
The user base is very specific, and without the proper FANBOY factor in NA/EU, it will never do as well as WoW
There's a long way from 100.000 to 8 million...a loooooooooong way.
The game is several years old and you want to invest serious cash in advertising it? Sounds irresponsible if you ask me. Especially for a game that already has a weak user base in America.
Right, thats why EA is for instance forking over a lot of money to do a whole remarketting of a 10 year old MMORPG that only has a NA/European userbase of around 75,000 active accounts.
Its not irresponsible, L2 is a very well developed game, with graphics that still outmatch most other games out there, the same with content and a unique level of PvP.
Sure, it will never be WoW, but as I stated, there's a long way from 100.000 to 8 million.
Will NCNA ever do it? Doubtful, advertisement is a long term investment that would remove money that L2 makes for other NA projects such as Tabula Rasa (Richard and Robert Garriots baby). We're the goose laying golden eggs.
There is a difference between the two games though. I'd hate to bring it up... but you do have to factor in the multi box/ farmer accounts into this.
Which is the same as Multihouse accounts in UO. Heck I have 10 active UO accounts.
As for EA vs NCNA... I don't think I have to mention who has the most money here. Unlike NCNA... EA banked on much more than two games~
Well, it really isn't a question of money in that sense, L2 makes more than enough money for it, its more a question of where is the money going to and would NCSoft NA be willing to cut away funding from Tabula Rasa to put into longterm advertisement for L2 just so it might give just about the same money and then much later more money? (and during that time, L2 could tank completely)
There is a difference between the two games though. I'd hate to bring it up... but you do have to factor in the multi box/ farmer accounts into this.
As for EA vs NCNA... I don't think I have to mention who has the most money here. Unlike NCNA... EA banked on much more than two games~
Dude you should really stop. That response you made to mine was laughable. You dismissed it outright because you couldn't think of anything to say after you got PWNED.
Well, it really isn't a question of money in that sense, L2 makes more than enough money for it, its more a question of where is the money going to and would NCSoft NA be willing to cut away funding from Tabula Rasa to put into longterm advertisement for L2 just so it might give just about the same money and then much later more money? (and during that time, L2 could tank completely)
You really think a game of 100,000 subscribers can sustain a full blown ad campaign against a well established company? I don't think so. I think it's unfair. At worst this is loss for EA. As for NCNA... like I said before.. it may very well break the company... so I maintain that risking this loss would be irresponsible... especially after monumental failures like auto assault.
As for you BlazerX... stop it. I didn't dismiss anything. I replied to every single point you made. And I already told you that you where a waste of time. You are too ignorant to know when you are wrong... which is why I am not going to respond to you any more. You have no argument which is why you resort to flaming. You have absolutely nothing on me... so stop trying.
Bhodosativa, I fully understand now why you keep saying "steaming pile of logic" to my posts. It seems yours are quite empty of it. I know its very hard for you to try to reason when you have been so unreasonable all this while, so let me make it easy and break out your posts for you so that you can't ever try to reason again and hurt yourself trying to think.
baseless flame
First off, here is the definition of FRANCHISE from dictionary.com.
Good. You need to know this info
#2 the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
Do you see that word "MARKET" there? Now if I were you I'd just keep quiet since you just proved you have no clue what your talking about.
Why should I keep quiet? I knew that Lineage ][ NA was localized and ran by a subsidiary... you didn't. You, as a NC korea shareholder, pointed your finger to NCNA and wanted to fire them for "with people who actually KNEW how to MARKET and ADVERTOSE their 2 biggest game titles"
Also, NCSOFT NA isn't a franchise. So first off your logic is flawed and your are misinformed. NCSOFT is a subsidiary.
What? I said Lineage ][ was a franchise... not NCsoft NA. I told you L][ NA is ran by a subsidiary. Swing and a miss, eh?
Here is the meaning of a subsidiary from dictionary.com:
Good. You looked up another word!
1. serving to assist or supplement; auxiliary; supplementary.
2. subordinate or secondary: subsidiary issues.
In other words, NCSOFT NA is still part of NCSOFT Korea, just not the main branch. This is another point to show how inept you are at research.
How does this prove me inept? You obviously missed the point of subsidiaries entirely. It is part of NC Korea.. but IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL COMPANY... and they make all of the decisions you're complaining about locally.
hmm Cartoon Network, lol I don't really watch it much. But I'm sure given your state of mind, you watch it religiously.
Way to shove another baseless flame in there, all the while proving your ignorance of local events. This scare WAS MAJOR NEWS. Millions in damage was dealt when they shut highways/ bridges down. But I digress. You missed the point... used it as a cheap shot... no reason to explain myself here.
As far as marketting goes and the perverse logic you apply to it, so what your saying is why bother to advertise when you know its going to fail?
Then my question is how the **** would you know if it would fail? Can you see the future? One must try before one can give up. If one gives up before he tries, hes a lame, dumb ****. Hence my point.
I am a graphic designer. A freelancer. An artist for hire. This is my industry. I know what questions to ask myself, and what type of risks to take. Your rant was cute... but you don't know what you're talking about. It's easy to front when it isn't your money on the line. Specialists, R&D departments, focus groups, TRENDS, are all indicative of what the future will bring. Beyond this... I am also an online gamer. A mod at several gaming forums.. including L2blah. I know my market. Not that this even matters. My point was that WE DONT KNOW what is going on... and taking a stance is just stupid.
Really, don't try to think again. Your "steaming pile of logic" remarks befits you as you have shown how intelligent you definitely are.
Cheers.
Your post amounted to nothing but mudslinging and ignorance. How you huffed up your chest with a faux sense of bravado is beyond me. Everything about this post was ridiculous. You proved your ignorance, agreed with me, contradicted yourself, and ranted all in one.. steaming pile... and this is why you are a waste of time. I did like the way you ignored my points in favor of chances to flame though. I hope to see another amazing post by you.
**** you can't even quote properly. No wonder I didn't see your initial response. You do know how to separate your response from my quote don't you?
NC Austin is the North American branch of NCsoft and is located in Austin, Texas.
That means its part of NCSOFT KOREA. Get it? SUBSIDIARY. spell that and read it again. NOT FRANCHISE. geebus.
#2 you said "swing and miss?" I think this applies to you on more than 1 occassion. NCSOFT NA IS THE SUBSIDIARY. Also you didn't say Lineage was the franchise because it can't be. A franchise applies to a chain, which is NCSOFT the COMPANY not the product. McDonalds is the Franchise not the McChicken Sandwhich. Geebus again!
#3 If you have no clue what a subsidiary is, you talking about what you don't know really crucifies your understanding of what your debating about.
Well, it really isn't a question of money in that sense, L2 makes more than enough money for it, its more a question of where is the money going to and would NCSoft NA be willing to cut away funding from Tabula Rasa to put into longterm advertisement for L2 just so it might give just about the same money and then much later more money? (and during that time, L2 could tank completely)
You really think a game of 100,000 subscribers can sustain a full blown ad campaign against a well established company? I don't think so. I think it's unfair. At worst this is loss for EA. As for NCNA... like I said before.. it may very well break the company... so I maintain that risking this loss would be irresponsible... especially after monumental failures like auto assault.
As for you BlazerX... stop it. I didn't dismiss anything. I replied to every single point you made. And I already told you that you where a waste of time. You are too ignorant to know when you are wrong... which is why I am not going to respond to you any more. You have no argument which is why you resort to flaming. You have absolutely nothing on me... so stop trying.
lol is it because you just realize ignorance is your biggest trait? You did miss EVERYTHING because the whole factoid you based your debate around just came crashing down...hard.
I wasn't going to waste my time making bullets or individual quote tags. It's your fault you can't read~
And dude.. how can you still not get this? NCNA is a subsidiary and Lineage ][ is the franchise. This is the third time I am saying this.
As for you thinking Lineage ][ isn't a franchise... read your quote again.
"#2 the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory."
Lineage ][ is both a product and a service.... the localized versions satisfying the whole "in a specific territory" bit. You can't honestly fail that bad at english.
Keep trying though.
lol is it because you just realize ignorance is your biggest trait? You did miss EVERYTHING because the whole factoid you based your debate around just came crashing down...hard.
This is hilarious. This exactly what I meant by you being to dumb to know when you are wrong. My "debate" didn't come crashing down on me... you still fail at understanding the meaning of franchise and subsidiary... despite having the definitions right in front of you. As for the rest... you didn't even acknowledge it. You have yet to refute a valid point. You've been too hung up on 2 mysteruous worddddddddss and flames~
Are you just stupid that you don't get it? Do you just read what you like and ignore the rest?
Read #2 again this time IF you don't understand the context of that sentence go back to school because you need to.
"#2 the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory."
What part of that sentence that says RIGHT OR LISCENSE BY A COMPANY TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP did you NOT understand? Last time I checked Lineage 2 wasnt an individual or group. Lineage 2 is a product, a game. NOT an individual or group or is your insanity telling you it is?
Also, did you forget what you said here? And I quote you:
"You are pointing your finger when there is nothing to point at. Lineage ][ is a franchise. L][ NA is run by a subsidiary."
So I guess you KNEW that NCSOFT NA was a subsidiary yeah? Sure...maybe after you daydreamed it? I guess the subsidiary you said above ran itself and calls itself NCSOFT? How deep does your insanity run?
"You, as a NC korea shareholder, pointed your finger to NCNA and wanted to fire them for "with people who actually KNEW how to MARKET and ADVERTOSE their 2 biggest game titles"
Also, when did I say I was a NCSOFT shareholder? Did you make that up as well? You sure have a tendency to make up a lot of stuff out of thin air.
I've been seriously patient trying to answer your stupidity but its an excersice in futility. I feel sorry for the people you freelanced for if you can't understand basic reading comprehension.
You understand the difference between a Franchise and Subsidiary? ROFLMAS, dude before you can understand something that is obviously beyond your ability, learn to understand what the context of these words I'm typing first is.
You really think a game of 100,000 subscribers can sustain a full blown ad campaign against a well established company?
Of course they can afford it, they only maintain a skeleton crew and no dev team on this game, it makes them a lot of money. It has more than enough to run an ad campaign.
like I said before.. it may very well break the company... so I maintain that risking this loss would be irresponsible... especially after monumental failures like auto assault.
It won't break the company, but it will remove money needed right here and now on development and funding of other NA projects. L2 is their cashcow they run with maximum results for minimum effort...for the immediate bottomline. There's no long term development plans for the game.
Somewhere in amongst the HUGE posts above I saw three points, being that NCNA only has 100,000 players, that it can't be expected to compete with a company like Blizzard (along those lines) and that the usual experience of mentioning L2 to someone who knows nothing about it is who?
So
To answer all, yet again, it all comes down to that one word - Advertise.
If there is no information about the game anywhere, no new players can join so the player base won't increase, revenue won't increase, being able to compete against the bigger boys won't be possible, etc etc etc.
And as it seems to be the thing in these threads .....
ADVERTISE to announce or praise (a product, service, etc.) in some public medium of communication in order to induce people to buy or use it:
And I work for an advertising agency so I might have a small idea what I'm talking about :). As the old saying goes you have to spend money to make money, if you don't put yourself out there no-one knows you exist.
I don't think maplestory is a subscriptionbased MMORPG.
It is; it's just that a basic subscription is free, and extras cost.
But then, I know enough people who play EVE Online for free, because they earn the monthly subscription fees in-game, so the distinction between those two starts to blur already.
all I know is that NC only wants our $$ and don't care about the customers...how many here can say they have gotten some kind of support in the forums, in game or at the support site?
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
I agree with the rest but not that.
There are plenty of casual gamers in L2. We have rooms for them, the game is not only a pvp orgy, it's still a mmorpg with social aspect, friendship and a beautiful scenery.
I think that we should raise the monthly L2 subscription fee to $50 US in order to fund this (expensive) advertising push. I volunteer to pay it, now...how about the rest of you?
Advertising is very expensive. To design, shoot and run a TV ad will cost millions of dollars. I am confident that NCSoft has run the numbers and compared to cost of generating new customers in lots of different ways to the revenues that these new customers will bring in (new accounts and monthly fees) and is making sound business decisions.
Lineage2 will never have a massive playerbase, no matter how much marketing you do. Why? For the average gamer, it's too hard, too time consuming and too limited. In other words, the average game will play their free week and say "This game sucks!"
I agree with the rest but not that.
There are plenty of casual gamers in L2. We have rooms for them, the game is not only a pvp orgy, it's still a mmorpg with social aspect, friendship and a beautiful scenery.
Yes, but the game doesn't have a lot of the things that other casual games have.
You have to be doing "something".
If you are not grinding (and if you are a new player, who are you going to be grinding with? The dwarves in the starter area? *shiver) then what is there to do?
No player housing, quests are subpar, Main cities are more meeting places on the way to the nearest necropolis or leveling spot. Also, I can't see most casual players wanting to invest the time in the economy, liking the open pvp aspect (especially if you are casual. There are only so many times that you will be pked before you realize "why am I here'.
L2 really appeals to a different sort of crowd. Sure, you don't have to be Mr. PvP to enjoy the game but a bit of an obsessive personality helps quite a bit.
I think that we should raise the monthly L2 subscription fee to $50 US in order to fund this (expensive) advertising push. I volunteer to pay it, now...how about the rest of you?
Uhm, they can advertise for Guildwars with no problems and it makes less than L2, and L2 NA doesn't have a dev team and they only have a pretty small crew otherwise.
I'll repeat, it all comes down to NCNA not being willing to take away the money L2 is making for their other games just for the prospect of increasing the playerbase (which would require more servers, more crew and more advertising yet again), so while L2 would likely make more money in the long run, its the short run they're worried about.
I think that we should raise the monthly L2 subscription fee to $50 US in order to fund this (expensive) advertising push. I volunteer to pay it, now...how about the rest of you?
Uhm, they can advertise for Guildwars with no problems and it makes less than L2, and L2 NA doesn't have a dev team and they only have a pretty small crew otherwise.
I'll repeat, it all comes down to NCNA not being willing to take away the money L2 is making for their other games just for the prospect of increasing the playerbase (which would require more servers, more crew and more advertising yet again), so while L2 would likely make more money in the long run, its the short run they're worried about.
I agree apart from the servers bit - most of them are light so unlikely any more would be needed for quite a long time.
As I said earlier a company needs to spend money to make money. If no-one is aware you are there you don't have a customer base. And although TV/Cinema advertising would be a great idea (it's not as expensive as you think) there are lots of other mediums that can be utilized.
At the moment there is little to none done. It is impossible to increase income without the customer - unless this is irrelevant to NC of course.
If I were in charge of marketing Lineage II in North America, I would focus on the image of Lineage II. Game play is what will ultimately retain players, but the idea of advertising is to convince potential customers to try it out; nothing more.
Lineage II has a few debilitating forces working against its success:
It's a Korean made game
This has nothing to do with national attitudes toward South Korea, but rather just the fact that Lineage II was imported from another country. Believe it or not, that World of Warcraft was made by an American company lent much to its success in North America. National pride is always a factor even if below the surface.
Another concern with imported games: translation issues. The North American market (and all markets outside of Korea) will never be the first one to experience additions to the game, and while this is expected, always being the second, or third, or fourth concern can wear on a market. As a foreign market, we will always have to wait and it's in this period of waiting that bitterness grows and other problems seem to amplify. And before you start, NCsoft NA, keeping players in the dark would only more the problem worse, as it has already.
Lineage II started out with a poor reputation
Before Lineage II hit retail shelves, it was already being hammered by critics and players. Relying on word of mouth to advertise is risky because once you get to the point where someone is commenting on the experiences as told by someone else, opinion becomes skewed. Consider the infamous school exercise of passing a secret from one end of the room to the other; the message that was in beginning is changed by the end. Browse any forum on the Internet and it is usually the negative voices that have the most presence -- it is these negative voices, bitter players, lazy reviewers, and people who thrive on just ruining things for others behind the anonymity of the Internet, that make problems seem much more than they are or just directly sabotage the game's reputation. When there are little to no voices countering the negative claims, the negative claims become "fact."
. . . and that's it
You were probably expecting me to cite a certain other concern, but guess what? The presence of "gold farmers" has little bearing on the overall success of Lineage II. The secondary market has its tendrils in every popular MMOG -- the gold farmer army in World of Warcraft dwarfs the number in Lineage II, yet the problem doesn't seem as severe in World of Warcraft as it does in Lineage II. It is only in this case that hiding the exact number of accounts banned works in the game's favor -- no sense making the problem concrete.
For Lineage II, the apparent problem has been greatly amplified without opposition. Rumors about Lineage II say that 90% of the the players are gold farmers, and with no counter claim, that rumor gains weight. By its silence, NCsoft NA might as well say "Everything you heard is true."
=How I would approach marketing Lineage II today=
NCsoft NA made a crippling mistake in doing nothing to combat the initial bad press. There are some major gaming sites who haven't looked at the game since Prelude -- readers of their sites see a review based on how the game was two years ago and are convinced that nothing has changed since then. NCsoft NA claimed it was going to approach reviewers and convince them to look at the game again, but I have seen little of this. I would actually approach these reviewers and get them to post an updated review. Good or bad, new news is better than old news.
Ask anyone about Lineage II, and the usual response is "huh what?" Word of mouth can work wonders when you are controlling the passing of the message. If you leave the advertising of the game to just the players, you will see a minimum growth of new players if any at all. And it is probably these new players (most likely close friends of the player who introduced them to the game) who may not take to the game and leave with the original player in tow; gaining one and losing two.
Consider the recent "botched" marketing ploy of Cartoon Network in promoting the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie. People thought those Lightbrights were a terrorist attack and while this hurt the image of Cartoon Network, it got people talking. The damage has since been repaired and now people who have never watched Cartoon Network are talking about the Mooninites. While I'm sure Cartoon Network did not want to be accused as terrorists, the purpose of the stunt was to spark word of mouth and while it cost the company a general manager, the ploy did its job. When the movie comes out, expect t-shirts refering to the infamous lightbright ads.
The marketing team assigned to Lineage II (Larry) must, in a sense, plant a few bombs to generate interest (I know it's a bad joke, but it had to be said). Having Lineage II featured in MTV's Video Mods was a great move, but there was no follow up; that bomb fizzled out.
What is the most tangible strength of Lineage II? Its style. Even the most detracting voices agree that the game "looks pretty." Well, "looking pretty" is what's going to convince new players to try the game. Even if just one percent of people who try out the game based on it "looking pretty" stay with the game, then that's a victory. 1% of 100 is 1, but 1% of 1,000 is 10, 1% of 10,000 is a 100, and so on. Exposure is the key.
Although Lineage II is a fantasy genre game, the success of the Lord of the Rings movies has proven that the fantasy genre can appeal to the mass market. It is beyond me why NCsoft NA has thus far only tried to appeal to people who read fantasy genre magazines (here is yet another free tip for Larry, the people who read fantasy genre magazines are more readers than gamers -- good choice of venue). Don't narrow marketing focus to just "online computer gamers who like fantasy genre" -- liking "fantasy" is not the social stigma it was many years ago. World of Warcraft rode the Lord of the Rings train and now has millions of subscribers. NCsoft NA did not even show up late at the station.
Right now, the best thing NCsoft NA can do in marketing Lineage II is to toss out their current marketing plans (I'll save you a few nickels, it sucks; don't even have to look at it) and just throw some wild pitches. Hire models to walk around in costumer at conventions. Put up posters. Convince a TV show to have an extra playing Lineage II in the background. There are many subtle and cheap ways to get word of mouth going: drop a few twenties and make it happen.
What I have left out
Issues in customer service, quality assurance, and subscription prices: there is much I would change in there areas too, but first we must get people to try out the game, then we can worry about keeping them here.
Another concern with imported games: translation issues. The North American market (and all markets outside of Korea) will never be the first one to experience additions to the game, and while this is expected, always being the second, or third, or fourth concern can wear on a market.
I have to say that there is a lot to be said about this.
I recently have the pleasure of beta testing another game made in the U.S.
It is so different to have the development team "right there", listening to players, commenting, making additions to the game, etc.
I feel like I'm part of the game development and that I'm "right there" as it is happening.
With L2 I feel like I'm part of a great community that is on a remote satelite waiting for supplies.
But then again, you hear many WoW players saying the same thing (and in some other MMORPGs as well), simply because there's too many players to be listened to or the dev team had little activity.
And I must point out that the majority of WoW's population is outside NA/Europe.
But then again, you hear many WoW players saying the same thing (and in some other MMORPGs as well), simply because there's too many players to be listened to or the dev team had little activity.
And I must point out that the majority of WoW's population is outside NA/Europe.
I can't speak to that for truth. I do know that they add regular content more than twice per year. True only one expansion and that is to the player to decide whether it's worth it or not.
All I know is that when they implemented the server vs server pvp tournement I started getting excited about the possibilites of the game. I thought they were going to start investing more into that type of gameplay and start moving the game forward. And add more to sieges which is why I'm here. Not that I have to siege all the time but that is my end game. But it seems that owning a castle is neither here nor there at times.
I suppose I just don't feel that we are moving forward and that we have to wait twice per year to get anything.
But that's just me and it might not reflect a lot of other people's feelings.
Well GreensealO, you have a subtitle of 'How would I approach Marketing L2 today' and then you never say what you would do to market L2 today.
Well, I did give suggestions on how to approach the market within that subsection: the key is exposure.
Right now, the best thing NCsoft NA can do in marketing Lineage II is to toss out their current marketing plans (I'll save you a few nickels, it sucks; don't even have to look at it) and just throw some wild pitches. Hire models to walk around in costumer at conventions. Put up posters. Convince a TV show to have an extra playing Lineage II in the background. There are many subtle and cheap ways to get word of mouth going: drop a few twenties and make it happen.
I made my comments nonspecific because NCsoft does not pay me enough to draft a marketing plan for them. I already volunteer for a major fansite (cheap plug: visit Stratics Lineage II (http://lineage2.stratics.com/) today!). If the NCsoft marketing team is lurking around fansite forums for tips, then there is no helping them.
NCsoft marketing is targeting the wrong demographic for Lineage II with what little advertising they put out. They cast too narrow of a net in the wrong direction and it is only by accident that they hit water.
The number of people who would be willing to try out the game is much larger than the number of people most likely to stay. Remember: the whole point of advertising is to convince people to try out the product; that's it. If NCsoft NA only targets the people most likely to stay, they will continue to under sell the game. You have to target the people most likely to try out Lineage II and the people most likely to even glance at the game. Circulate the latest CG movie for the Chaotic Throne -- it matters little that the movie does not show actual game play, it will get people interested. What is hurting the growth of Lineage II the most right now is what people do not know about the game. Cast a wider net, catch some eyes, people will talk -- that is word of mouth, not "let the players do the job for us."
This is not about marketing the game to five-year olds and World War II vets, it's about marketing to a larger group than the people who read fantasy genre magazines, who play PC games, who play games other than traditional role-playing games, who would be willing to play MMOGs, who likes PvP game play, and who likes open PvP game play.