Can I get an official explanation as to why whites dont flag on karma characters? is this something that is likely to chance in coming patches? this doesnt affect the fact that if you are a serial pk'r then you still drop goods, but for example if your in war/pking farmers in a room and they retaliate it seems to be self-defeatist. obcourse u can train, but not every class can do it effectively as train classes
Its part of the penalty for being red, even in war. Though I think if your warred, it doesnt add to karma, cause you dont go red in the first place for pking warred toons. Not sure though.
but for example if your in war/pking farmers in a room and they retaliate it seems to be self-defeatist.
Indeed. Let's make players flag on PKers, then if you want a place to level your clan's lowbie in catas, bring your PK and your highlevels and clean the cata off the all other players (including non-bots), your highlevels killing every player that flags back on the PK.
Is it just me... or do other people remember them changing it so you did flag against reds on one of the PTSs? I think it was C2 (same time they added the 5 free PKs rule). Didnt make it to live at any point tho...
You dont go red in a two way war. If you think the penalties for goin red are harsh now... you should have been around in C1! Just keep your pk score low, and you'll have enough free PKs to protect yourself from half a group of farmers.....
Speaking of strange stuff ... why don't I flag when I resurrect a "red"? I seem to remember this being the case, but I might mis-remember the flagging for healing/buffing the "red" player.
This was heavily discussed on the boards and even tested on PTS (back when it wasn't a [923] fest of e-thugs).
The fact of it is, the red can become a catalyst in a greifing group. It's pretty easy... The red comes around a player. He starts hitting the player (staying red). This is very annoying and can eventually lead to death, so most folks will retaliate. You would flag and as soon as you did, you'd get an arrow up your butt for 9K damage...
You see, a 2 boxed person can easily become a MAJOR greif fest... So imagine a bunch of players doing it together...
Was dropped as an idea because it's not good for the mechanics. It's not an official response but I figure this is the closest you'll get.
Is it just me... or do other people remember them changing it so you did flag against reds on one of the PTSs? I think it was C2 (same time they added the 5 free PKs rule). Didnt make it to live at any point tho...
Yes they did, but they removed it. It was completely unworkable and made it too easy to burn off karma.
Think of it from the standard pk perspective. One toon is much higher level than the other(s). One on earth would you make it impossible for the little guy to fight back without being dropped.
They DO need to add an additional flag type (green say?) for people attacking a pker. Red characters should be allowed to use "flag only" skills on players attacking them. As a human tank, going red is a horrible idea as my only skill (shield stun) requires the other character to be flagged.
Reason why they dont make you flag on red character is simple to understand
take a high lvl dagger with ng armor and a cheap dagger and have them pk people. Take more people with the red dagger who are in S grade and max lvl. Go around and do what ever you want. There will never be a chance for anyone to protect themself under this scenario.
it is either, let the red kill you, or try and kill the red and them flag and have the rest kill you. Either way, you are going to do. Nothing you can do.
Right now you can try and kill the red with people around him, but still you are probably going to die, at least you have a chance to kill the red. This will either make the red get killed, or lead to another person in full gear going red. Flagging on a red means no one else will go red either and it will just be free kills.
Having someone flag when attacking a red seems like a good idea from the view of the PK'er, but for everyone else it is just ******ed. The person who is red shouldnt have the advantage of having other flag on him when he is red.
This "PVP" related "non carebear" game allows you to drop someone if you want.
But the penalties are ridiculous. And they have to be because of the 12 years olds that went around killing everyone in TI and all the other lowbie areas.
But a red cant defend himself without getting more Karma. This is frigging stupid.
I completely agree with most of the arguments here.
How about this, whites dont flag when they attack a red, but a red does not increase their karma if they kill someone attacking them.
Someone posted earlier, create a new type of flgging(I think they suggested green) which allows the Red to attack and use skills without penalty, but anyone else that attacks them goes red if they kill them. That way, the red can defend himself, but no one else can interfere freely.
It still keeps the if you dont fight back the red gets more kharma penalty, but doesnt punish him for defending himself.
Someone posted earlier, create a new type of flgging(I think they suggested green) which allows the Red to attack and use skills without penalty, but anyone else that attacks them goes red if they kill them. That way, the red can defend himself, but no one else can interfere freely.
It still keeps the if you dont fight back the red gets more kharma penalty, but doesnt punish him for defending himself.
If a player is red fighting people under his level, he will likely be killing them if they flag or not. Even if they don't prevent him from gaining more karma, a red should be allowed to use his "flag only" combat skills vs a player attacking him. For instance, if you attack a red nuker, he should be allowed to sleep and run.
This was heavily discussed on the boards and even tested on PTS (back when it wasn't a [923] fest of e-thugs).
The fact of it is, the red can become a catalyst in a greifing group. It's pretty easy... The red comes around a player. He starts hitting the player (staying red). This is very annoying and can eventually lead to death, so most folks will retaliate. You would flag and as soon as you did, you'd get an arrow up your butt for 9K damage...
You see, a 2 boxed person can easily become a MAJOR greif fest... So imagine a bunch of players doing it together...
Was dropped as an idea because it's not good for the mechanics. It's not an official response but I figure this is the closest you'll get.
Yes, I can remember the squads of griefers/aka BOT killers who used the pretext of killing the farmers with one person and the others as support. The RED would go around with a flock of these goons with him and if you challenged him in any way you FLAGGED and the others could then PK you without taking KARMA.
The idea is great for BOT control but never worked because the players used it for other purposes...which got the whole FLAG theme canned.
I personally would love to see them bring back FLAGGING on reds so the RED could defend himself against blatant attacks. I know when RED you get attack and then defend yourself YOU will get COUNT and MORE KARMA if that person dies by your hand.
I have a WAR going on now that got started because the individuals cant take me on one on one. So I pick them off when its 2 and 1 vs 1. But I get extra counts because of being RED. I know.. boohoo.
Just would love to have the PVP points...because WHEN YOUR RED you DO NOT get PVP POINTS. I think that sux big time. but no problem I will wait and get my PVP when we actually WAR these miscreants.