I'm really struggling with considerations for tank armor.
As I approach A-grade I have been looking over the armor stats.
Basically it seems Dark Crystal is traditional "defensive tank" armor.
I don't think I want to go that way.
The more 'offensive' tank armors seem much the same to me from library descriptions...
Majestic and Tallum seem similar to me (strength or attack bonus, con may or may not go down, various resist to stun or poison, etc).
DA who does a lot of "pulling" and also solo's quite a bit......
What would you say are the advantages or disadvantages of one armor over another for me?
(I don't spend a lot of time with hundreds of A-grade players in-game but I don't think I've ever seen an A-grade DA in majestic.....)
Last week when I spent an hour reviewing the stats I was half-convinced I wanted Tallum. That means giving up shield def bonus from DC which can help when solo'ing....
Bah!
What am I missing about this? Advice or ideas?
dont know much about tanks tbh but i hear you guys like to wear doom well into the 70's
tallum is the best DD set you can get
looking over the sets it looks like DC is the full tank set NM is the hybrid DD tank set and maj looks like a half ***** DD set
Doom gives you +24% shield def. DC only gives 18%, but gives heal+4% and para resist. Nightmare gives damage reflect, sleep and hold resist.
If what you want to do is tank in PvE, doom's much more efficient cost-wise than DC. For less than the cost of a DC helmet on Lionna you can get a set of +3/4 Doom. Against things like raid bosses where the tank takes large amounts of damage the damage reflection of nightmare can be handy. Also, the patk of nightmare's a good deal better, comes in very handy in small parties or solo. The -2 dex from Nightmare loses you 10 points of attack speed, and 1-2 points of acc and crit. Not significant. Tallum gives you +44 attack speed (to 598 total).
I'd say forget DC. Go Nightmare if you want a offense/defense balance, Tallum to do better damage, or Doom if you want to exclusively tank.
Having an A Grade SK, I would suggest Tallum and a DD build if you will be soloing with or without buffs.
If you are pulling, then the extra HP from Doom Set would be beneficial.
While Tallum does not give a shield block bonus, you don't lose much if you have bless shield and advanced block when using a shield with a Tallum set. I think I block about 80% of all attacks on my SK with full buffs, and probably a quarter of those for shield crit blocks, tho I might just be lucky in that respect.
If you don't plan on actually tanking RB's or tanking for high level mobs in very small groups, i would suggest a DD build over a defensive build. Tallum Heavy, NM Shield, and Tallum Blade/Haste is a great DD setup and gives my SK well over 700 attack speed when fully buffed. You could also use NM Heavy if you plan on having to tank in high level areas and some backup tanking for RB's. If you plan on tanking exclusively, then a Doom Set or NM Set and a DLE/Health is a priority.
This all will depend on your playstyle. I prefer fast hitting and fast killing to actually tanking on my SK, although I can tank fairly well in my DD setup and manage MP a little better than a defensive build because of the damage I do, which means less need of hate.
Another suggestion, if you can afford it, is +6 heavy sets. A +6 Tallum set or +6 Doom set will work wonders if you are able to acquire one. The Tallum set gives slightly more PDef than +3 Top A, and Doom set gives more Pdef than low a +3. In addition, the MP Regen bonus will help you conserve MP when raiding and using hate in general.
I may be able to help you, but i need to know a few things about how you play.
Do you have a full time buffer, if so which one?
Do you use your panther, if so, do you use SS with it?
Do you like to level fast or are you a casual player?
Answer these for me and I can guide you to your armor destiny :)
I may be able to help you, but i need to know a few things about how you play.
Do you have a full time buffer, if so which one?
Do you use your panther, if so, do you use SS with it?
Do you like to level fast or are you a casual player?
Answer these for me and I can guide you to your armor destiny :)
No fulltime buffer (no part-time buffer either :))
Solo about 50% of the time or more--though I expect that will get harder and harder to do. When I solo I have the panther summoned and he uses beast soul shots.
I am a casual player--(lol) it's taken me 11 months to get to 60 (which i just reached tonight :))!!!
I use maj on a dwarf an i think that works best (for me), it gives you a resist stun an +2 str and 4% attk bonus and accuracy is great IMO. Most DA i see are running around in NM. But i think maj has best stats for solo.
since your a DA id stay away from Maj you wont gain much from the anti stun as you dont get stunned much w/ high human Con and the +Acc on Maj prolly wont do much for you since your most likly using a blunt and have pretty good acc already... if your using a sword and -con however it might be nice
DC is nice for the block% and para resist its also pretty cheap
but youll only have about 40 more pdef (not exact been a long time since i had a DC set) than in Doom
NM is a pretty good set for DA except the -2 dex
Tallum imo is best set for you here is why....
bleed/posin resist - bleed/posin are hell on a tank the 1 thing your good at (pdef) is ignored and your takin dmg
most DAs -con anyway so the -con is just a boost w/o the $ for a tat
most of all the 8% atk speed
w/ a haste tallum or focus dama you can do a good deal of dmg even w/ a health sa the dmg is noticable
and tallum is same pdef as DC
really it depends on wat youll be doin and what the rest of your setup includes (weapons/tattoos)
I may be able to help you, but i need to know a few things about how you play.
Do you have a full time buffer, if so which one?
Do you use your panther, if so, do you use SS with it?
Do you like to level fast or are you a casual player?
Answer these for me and I can guide you to your armor destiny :)
No fulltime buffer (no part-time buffer either :))
Solo about 50% of the time or more--though I expect that will get harder and harder to do. When I solo I have the panther summoned and he uses beast soul shots.
I am a casual player--(lol) it's taken me 11 months to get to 60 (which i just reached tonight :))!!!
Your play style is much like mine. I would go with majestic and a focus wep. At your level you should be leveling outside the cats (solo). Go to forsaken plains to level on the fallen orc shamans. They are great xp and all the mobs there drop herbs too. Get a +4 Dex -4 COn tat as soon as you can. The added attk spd, run spd and skill casting spd are well worth it. Not to mention you will crit more. PM me if you want specifics about the DA class.
I would Have to say If you want to pwn in pvp and lvl fast Get maj with nm shield and +3DLE with Hp (I would say fouces but no a grade fouces yet and heath helps in tanking) +4str -4con +5dex -5con(dex effects land rate of shield stun and all your skills but Drain) With this set up you will not be gimp DD you can dish out some damage and take some at the same time. At Higher lvls you dont want to be the supper -9str tank i would never group you cause the damage you do would not even help the group.
Nm ,is good but sucks in pvp -dex hurts,All right solo gear
Tallum, Is great but lacks defs
Dc ,good tank gear but only if you tank and never solo
Doom ,Great tank gear But sucks to solo in.
Maj, Great when fighting other tanks , when fighting high evasion classes it helps alot 2.
Your play style is much like mine. I would go with majestic and a focus wep. At your level you should be leveling outside the cats (solo). Go to forsaken plains to level on the fallen orc shamans. They are great xp and all the mobs there drop herbs too. Get a +4 Dex -4 COn tat as soon as you can. The added attk spd, run spd and skill casting spd are well worth it. Not to mention you will crit more. PM me if you want specifics about the DA class.
Thanks to allwine and others for thoughts. Talking to highest clan DA he shared much the same as you're mentioning here.
I have been killing fallen orc shamans as you mentioned, also golem foursomes in frozen lab, with occasional party to dragon valley cave w/clanmates.
The panther absolutely crushes those golem groups and they are still white to me. I was looking for a change since i spent a level or two with fallen orc shamans already and wanted different scenery (lol).
I think I might go Majestic after all (Tallum and NM were second choices since I kinda discarded the DC).
Too bad I think Majestic is one of the ugliest on Human males...but, oh well, what are you gonna do? (lmao--I'll be the 'Dark Avenger Snowman')
I will be using a sword--it will just take me quite awhile to work up to DLE (150million makes me wanna cry).
As for being great in pvp--I just haven't developed good pvp skills up to this point.
Spending so much of my playing time trying to level has me really comfortable pve...and really horrible at pvp.
Perhaps once I get into low 60's and past A-grade I can devote some time to practice and will also participate in other parts of the game I have missed.
Raid bosses, large parties - DC hvy, there is no comparison. The shield defense bonus and heal bonus far outweighs any other bonus. For these tasks only two stats matter, pdef and hp from heals. Having more hp only helps if your healers fall asleep often.
Solo unbuffed - It's up in the air, but I prefer atk speed in these scenarios. Tallum tends to be beneficial as you crit more times per minute due to swinging more times per minute.
Solo buffed - Why would you wear heavy armor? With full buffs a plated leather set or dc light set is an excellent way to go. You can still keep 800+ pdef in dc light and gain a lot of patk/atkspeed.
Personally, I switch between DC heavy and light to accomodate the best of both worlds. The helmet is the most expensive part, so I essentially afforded a second A grade set for the price of B grade. The helmet also unseals to work for any A grade set. It would work for any dd subclass as well (DC robe/light are decent for most dd's) and for this reason the set also retains value well.
I have also tested tats rather excessively. I find the most beneficial tats to be + str. Human tanks have such low crit rates that the +dex really doesn't get you far. In fact, +str - dex actually increases your dps by a few percent, and in Interlude this will only get worse with the DW nerf. I saw almost no effect on shield defense rate with dex changes. I also saw no change to crit defense rate in a 500 hit test.
For a human 4 extra or less dex buys or loses -
2 useless evasion, 2 accuracy, 3 critical, ~15 atk speed, and ~4 runspeed
If there is a shield change, most of the stat calcs would suggest around a 1% shield def rate change per 4 dex. As you can see, that stat changes are relatively small.
4 str buys you about 15% more patk. You tell me which looks better?
If you mainly solo unbuffed, the best idea IMO is tallum heavy, +4 str -4 con, +4 dex - 4 con. Emphasize your damage, as that is the only thing that gets you exp. Basically, do as much damage as possible without dying. If you can get away with plated leather, that is the most damage added for any armor in game. It is...however...paper.
If you mainly solo unbuffed, the best idea IMO is tallum heavy, +4 str -4 con, +4 dex - 4 con. Emphasize your damage, as that is the only thing that gets you exp. Basically, do as much damage as possible without dying. If you can get away with plated leather, that is the most damage added for any armor in game. It is...however...paper.
I use maj on a dwarf an i think that works best (for me), it gives you a resist stun an +2 str and 4% attk bonus and accuracy is great IMO. Most DA i see are running around in NM. But i think maj has best stats for solo.
Ding. You win the prize.
Our clan had an A grade tank in NM. He spent most of his time stunned, and cursing in chat. My WS in majestic just keeps swinging away.
Armor stats are not the whole story. Stun is a very common mob attack that can't be cured by the healer classes. If you lose agro while stunned, someone else may die (admittedly rare occurance).
Sith has some good ideas, but they are not the best for a DA. Remember, the DA has a panther that is its damage dealer. +4 dex increases your skill casting. At levels above 62 you are just a meat shield for your panther (pve). Having the extra stun resist is much needed in your 60's since most of the mobs you are soloing have stun. Im curious how you get a 15% increae out of +4 str? Can you show me your math on this?
I did a test with my DA and +4 str, at lvl 66 I was only doing an average of 15 pts of extra damage per swing. I dont feel this is worth trading for the advantage you get from +4 dex. My suggestions are geared towards the OP original question.
These are the exact stat changes for my Paladin while testing various tats a while back (should be the same for DA). This one most blatantly shows the effects of dex and str. It is almost a 100 patk boost at the cost of 5 crit in this case. The rounding changes when it is -4. A note, these % are changes in stat values, not in land rate, speed, etc. In other words, a 4% loss in critical is not a 4% loss in critical attack chance. As the class rarely crits anyways and crits are being reduced via dw in Interlude, the extra patk comes into play far more often. You also crit for more damage which should negate teh small loss in crit chance. Accuracy for a tank leveling on white/green mobs isn't much of a concern. The real killer losses are speed/atkspeed. Overall damage should still be up a solid 5% from the change...and that's probably conservative.
If you don't think 100 patk is worth it, you could always keep leveling with a C grade sword. However, nobody would get focus SA if it only added 5 critical.
A DA is indeed different, as the panther accounts for a lot of extra damage, but as I said. As long as the mobs aren't causing you more downtime, if you can transfer pdef into patk you want to do it. Also, skill casting? Judgement isn't worth using for most cases other than overhit, and shield stun doesn't kill mobs. If you can keep killing and never use stun, you will kill faster. The only other skills (that I can think of) are magic and thus wit based.
What did i win?!?! Hope its something good :) hehe i know the pain of NM and stun mobs it gets annoying quick :mad: Its not really a good set anymore because use to use it in pvp because of its sleep resist but now thats nerfed its not really worth it. BTW i got +4 str -4 con tat and that seems to help alot also in PVE.
Raid bosses, large parties - DC hvy, there is no comparison. The shield defense bonus and heal bonus far outweighs any other bonus. For these tasks only two stats matter, pdef and hp from heals. Having more hp only helps if your healers fall asleep often.
I posted a comparison of DC heavy and enchanted doom, and I have to say, Doom looks better for tanking. 6% shield def rate vs. 4% heal rate. And contrary to what you say, the added hp do help, it reduces overhealing, especially in raids, and its a pretty solid chunk of hp (plus it helps with % heals). Admittedly, the main advantage of doom is cost, but the DA in my clan said that DC heavy was pointless. From the numbers, that appears to be true.
Not that this helps the original poster, doom and DC heavy are poor choices for what he wants to do.
Yeah--I've already got the doom set I've been wearing.
It looks like I'm going with the "snowman suit" and go with Majestic Heavy after all....and that Irmy will be along for buffs!!!! :cool:
Now...can anyone briefly explain that whole 'sealed' and 'unsealed' thing in a simple way?
I don't see much on this site regarding a straightforward explanation except........
".....all set pieces have to be unsealed for the set bonuses to be applied"
So, does that mean it is all created 'sealed' and has to be unsealed at a blacksmith BY THE TOON WEARING IT or can anyone equip a set already unsealed and get the bonuses?
Also, someone above said to go "majestic with a nm shield"....I see that Majestic is not completed with a shield, but will a NM shield work as intended if IT'S not part of the completed NM set?
(sorry for noobish questions--haven't seen much of the A-grade part of the game yet)
Anyone can unseal it at the BS Mammon, and then trade it to the person wearing it. Except for the fact that it has to be the BS mammon, and it costs AA it works just like sealing/unsealing of b grade.
Raid bosses, large parties - DC hvy, there is no comparison. The shield defense bonus and heal bonus far outweighs any other bonus. For these tasks only two stats matter, pdef and hp from heals. Having more hp only helps if your healers fall asleep often.
I posted a comparison of DC heavy and enchanted doom, and I have to say, Doom looks better for tanking. 6% shield def rate vs. 4% heal rate. And contrary to what you say, the added hp do help, it reduces overhealing, especially in raids, and its a pretty solid chunk of hp (plus it helps with % heals). Admittedly, the main advantage of doom is cost, but the DA in my clan said that DC heavy was pointless. From the numbers, that appears to be true.
Not that this helps the original poster, doom and DC heavy are poor choices for what he wants to do.
DC has higher pdef
Overhealing, never had that happen. My hp sits in the middle through most raids around 4k.
6%, when stacked with standard buffs buys you another 15 pdef...maybe
4% to heals is like taking 4% less damage...or having 4% more pdef. From a real perspective, it's like adding 4% more mana to your healers...significant, better, but not seriously a big deal.
With the changes to para time, DC is less important. It used to be harsh if the SE or Bishop got hit with the tank in ToI. As a human who doesn't take -con, I rarely find myself stunned. While DC does stand out in my experiences, it isn't the end of the world unless you are trying to push the limits of your raid party. Considering most of my raid groups, it is rarely a concern. It would likely be better to have OE doom for tanking due to the mana regen bonus.
For solo, I still say if you have clan hall buffs, wear light armor.