Requesting Lord British, Please Help

Lord British is today an executive producer at MMOG publisher Austin-based NCsoft. I am asking for your help with Lineage 2. You recently posted this statment in a interview.

"In most MMOGs, you walk up to a monster, you highlight it to identify it as your target and you no longer have to look at it. You go 'fireball, fireball, fireball, sword swing, healing potion, and repeat.' You go through this mechanical, repetitious combat that requires no strategy or tactics. In fact there's a name for it -- "the level grind." As great as I think online games are -- I mean, we've built a whole company around them -- I still think the game design for online games is totally in its infancy. But I do believe that "Tabula Rasa" represents a radical step forward because it drops you into a world that is dynamic and exciting throughout. " link to interview http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/cont...ba81d98d4f03c00 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/features/columns/playing_games/e3ia1541b8b6708262e7ba81d98d4f03c00)

Can you spread some of that less grinding stuff over to Lineage2 North America Please? Is that to much to ask? As you know Lineage2 has alot of grinding to it. I am begging you Lord British Please answer this call.

Please sign this petition if you agree Players of Lineage 2

Your thoughts are well met. But you forget L2 is already sitting on it's game engine anddevoloped in a way that does not allow for hugh changes. Lets all hold our breathes that L3 will be developed in a different skin.

I honestly think that you just put your own product in very bad light by stating what you said about grinding. Honestly Lineage 2 is a awesome game but the grind is so out of control that it has become its own market for ways to escape the grind. I totally belive that Lineage 2 pushed the secondary (gold farming and gold buying) market to higher lvls once the game was launched do to its game play mechanics.
The next market that lineage 2 is helping push is the use of BOTS. BOTS are so usefull that it is now a Game Feature in Guild Wars. Since the launch of Night Fall the technology from BOT progams has now transfered over to actuall game play, Henchmen are now a Permanent Fixture in Guild Wars do to BOT tech. Real Good use of the Unreal Engine.

If you truely want to effect the MMOG market Please start with Lineage2

The grind is fine, the play is fine, the problem is with the xp levels and xp rate from mobs. The xp needed per level just needs to be toned down or higher levels mobs give more xp. Some mobs in the 60 levels give MORE xp than mobs in the 75s. But at higher level the 60ish mobs are so dark blue you'll get squat xp from them.

The other problem is this game was designed for Korea. See this article. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17175353/)

The Casual Gamer wants in on Lineage 2. The Population in Lineage 2 taking a major hit due to the the grind and what the grind has done to the game. The grind has brought this sad list of negitive aspects to the game:

Repeitive gameplay grind
Gold Farming and Buying to make grind less painfull
BOTS
Players giving up due to grind, which led to low pop servers, which led to no body to play with, and then led to class inbalance issues due to grouping issues. The game needs your help Lord British please do something.

They were smart to introduce subclassing because the grind gets terrible. Even if one can aoe at higher levels it still becomes a repetition. You know if they ever sell xp and sp they would make a LOT of money.

not much you can do
you remove the grind and L2 is nothing more than the worlds most unbalanced form of counter strike
im with tailchaser on this the xp isnt that bad at lower lvls the problem is at higher lvls where you just get pummeled time after time by lvl walls while the problem is compounded but few hunting grounds and crap xp from 90% of the places avaliable

Whoever equates "you walk up to a monster, you highlight it to identify it as your target and you no longer have to look at it" with "no strategy or tactics needed" obviously never tried to coordinate or help the killing of a 30+ monster pull with various adds spawning on top of you.

Learn to play, Lord British.

Greetings,

Learn to play, Lord British.

Muhahahaahaa ! I always enjoy someone using a name to pass its message.

Some distastefull drawing were made about Brutus, making him the assassin.

Yet with all his loyalty, he finally stabbed him to death.

Ceasar was a great person, who took himself as the son of Venus, he was a bit far fetched, but he was a military genius. He was also a political genius, but a knife put an end to his reign.

Have Fun ! ™

Darkmotion
Board Devil (http://www.amazon.fr/Surmonter-%C3%A9motions-destructrices-dialogue-Dala%C3%AF/dp/2221093011) / Fired ! (http://forums.mmoradio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66)

Whoever equates "you walk up to a monster, you highlight it to identify it as your target and you no longer have to look at it" with "no strategy or tactics needed" obviously never tried to coordinate or help the killing of a 30+ monster pull with various adds spawning on top of you.

Learn to play, Lord British.

QFT!

Lors British is just advertising for his new game. Advertising != truth.
To the other complaints : It's L2, why playing it if you don't like its mechanic and game design?
And the game problems (bots, ebayers) come at first from a part of the players.

The Casual Gamer wants in on Lineage 2. The Population in Lineage 2 taking a major hit due to the the grind and what the grind has done to the game.

If this is true at all, it is solely because the playerbase you are speaking of, does not see the way to the top as part of the game.

You mention GuildWars.. In Guildwars, there is practically no leveling. The game is most of all based on the group fights.

Why do you think, there are 80 levels for Lineage2 chars, if all you want is to pass them as fast as possible ?

All the people, who complain, that chars do not level fast enough are the same people, who would at max.lvl instantly start to complain, that there is no "end game"-content.

In WoW, you level to max lvl in 1-2 weeks (if you are lazy) and then you spend years, grinding for the best of the best in drops.

In Lineage2 you level to max within years and get your equipment on the way to the top, if you are playing smart.

What good would it do, if we were all leveling 20x faster and about everyone would be level 80 and noble ?

Why can't you just accept the leveling as part of the game ? Lineage2 does not start only after you subclassed. It starts at lvl 1 and progresses through the different grades.

Slowleveling Kitten

Richard Gariott has nice theories, but his vision of Ultima Online was a failure. I'm waiting to see if Tabula Rasa will indeed change the xp grind vision of current MMOGs or if it is yet another announcement effect for the 923 I saw from it on a preview trailer.
Putting in perspective the sucess of WoW and saying there's no problem to find a place for other MMOGs is excessive self-confidence, boastfulness, I-know-it-all-ness and demagogy towards investissors. There's no place for a MMOG with the same target as WoW. His pal Raph "Designer Dragon" Koster learnt it with the failure of WoWization of SWG. Koster had nice theories on MMOGs too.

I don't trust high figures of MMOG. I judge by the product, not its potential, utopist vision and wishfull thinkings. So no thank you, such a person is not required in Lineage 2 staff.

His pal Raph "Designer Dragon" Koster learnt it with the failure of WoWization of SWG. Koster had nice theories on MMOGs too.

To be fair, Raph Koster didn't have anything to do with the "WoWization" of SWG. He was long gone by the time NGE rolled over the game.

Ah sorry I thought he left just after.

im gonna have to go dig my "British Is Back" shirt out of my dresser now. :) the casual gamer isnt meant to play l2, thats why the marketing is virtually nonexistent in the states (were viewed - as a whole - by the company as not being hard-core enough to handle it). i would think this to be the same reason they let loa be established in lin1, so that those people who couldn't handle the original servers would have a place to play that was geared more towards u.s. players.

Yeah, that's the trick. There are fun ways to play L2.

The problem is not so much the length of levelling in L2 as it is the fact that playing most classes is dull in a standard party. But this plagues all the MMORPGs. I played a wizard in WoW. I pushed 3 buttons. Mob dead. Next one. I played a druid in vanguard. Admittedly in Vanguard it seems the set of skills I use changes every skillset, but it still works out to root, DoT, DoT, nuke, instant nuke. I played AO and UO. Those games were even more primitive. Click attack.....wait....wait....next mob.

In the end, the only way to make a game exciting is to play against humans. L2's problem is that for each minute you spend PvPing, you usually spend 10x that PvEing getting back the xp/adena. Thus making PvP a small part of the game, time wise. Can you imagine if you got 5% of the xp the person lost for defeating them (balanced for level difference of course)?

L2 has too much of the stick and not enough of a carrot.

Well said, TigerLady.

I know I'm odd, but I don't want L2 made easier. I don't want the grind reduced, or exp given away easier, or the economy tweaked to make it easy to get gear....or anything else that would make the game more casual.

I would rather play a rewarding, difficult game with others who like a rewarding difficult game (even if there are not swarms of them) than play an easy game with lots of folks.

I think L2 is the best game ever created, at least for me.

I agree. People don't realize that the leveling "is" part of the game.

What they don't realize is that leveling can manifest itself in many forms.

Let's take WoW for instance, every hardcore player's whipping boy.

So it takes "2 weeks" to get to high lvl. Well first of all, for most players that is not the case. I have one WoW toon that I’ve played since the the game out and he is lvl 27. Granted, I don’t put in a lot of time but if it was “that” easy to breeze up in levels for the casual gamer then that game would have larger problems. This is not to say that there aren’t hardcore gamers who probably can’t get there in a month or less but that is part of the huge problem that is the MMO. More on that later.

To continue, in WoW, once players get to top level you can either pvp on their battlegrounds or raid for “loot”. “Fun” as that may or may not be, in the end, what else is there to do? PvE Games have a built in limit because they have finite content. You have to wait until expansions or content upgrades in order to continue. This takes time for the developers. So what are players to do? Well, pvp in battlegrounds, raid or find some other way in game to amuse themselves.

This is part of the problem that Turbine had with DDO. It is a quest based game and once you do the quests, there is nothing else to do but do more of the same quests on harder level. You essentially find yourselves grinding on quests.

Now, in a game like L2, there is no such “rich” quest content. One couldn’t choose to level solely on quests. So there is the grind. Of course, where L2 shines is that this is an open pvp game so it allows for interaction between players “while” they grind and that supplies the fuel that runs the game. Not only does the grind allow for character advancement but it also make it so that players can decide on their relationships with other players, whether it friend or foe.

Another factor to this is that it also allows for a small group of “dedicated” players to reach the pinnacle of power as it isn’t easy to zip up to high level and gear. So people can say “hey, let’s make it easier so that everyone can get to high level and participate.

Well, then you get the Guild Wars issue. Players grip about how easy it is to get to lvl 20 and there is no reason to work on your character. Of course, this is on design because it essentially gives you time to learn your skills and then you pvp in the arena events. But what ends up happening is that that is all you do. PvP (or grind out the PvE missions again with a new character).

So this is a problem that all games face. What’s more, getting back to the mention of the “power gamers” they chew through content so fast that it is near impossible for developers to keep up. In a game like L2, this is less of a factor because many power gamers will not be daunted by the grind and will take advantage of the fact that they can pvp as much as they want because replacing the lost xp isn’t as huge of a deal as it is to a casual player.

The problem with L2 is that there is nothing built into the game (or very little) other than grind. And as the main focus of the game is pvp, anything you do that doesn’t further your character puts you at a disadvantage. I can fish to my heart’s content (which I wouldn’t do as that isn’t that fun to me) but in the end, when I go to a siege, all that fishing isn’t going to help that I am behind the curve in levels.

Of course you have players who don’t really like the pvp as much or who can find their own amusements. In some ways these players are easier to satisfy because they enjoy exploring, role playing, etc. This only requires the developers to present them with an interesting world for which to do this in. But most role players require ways to differentiate their character that has nothing to do with pvp. Added clothing, player housing, rich crafting systems, a world where they can interact with the surroundings (sitting in chairs seems to be a big one).

However, L2 really doesn’t have much other than the story line to attract these players. And I tend to think that the amount of role players who love pvp is probably far smaller than the total of role players out there.

So essentially what you are faced with is either a process that allows you to advance your character (giving the player something to do) which is the grind of some sort (killing mobs, grinding quests) only to have them reach the end of that content and then have them take part in some sort of end game where they essentially grind out that end game (raids, Guild Wars type pvp, etc) or you zip them up to top level and then they still have to grind out the “end game” content.

My thought is that in the end, there is nothing but some sort of repetitive play for players by the very nature that these games “aren’t supposed to end”. This is a huge problem for developers because unless they are willing to invest money in many live events and constant content upgrades, there really is no way they can keep up with players who chew through these games. But investing in this type of thing is a huge gamble. If players “don’t bite” then you can shoot yourself in the foot. Especially since there seem to be players who have no problem with game hopping.

This is why some companies try to create a stable of games with the idea that if players are going to go from game to game they might as well go to one of their “own’ games.

My thought is that players have to be more realistic with their expectations and that game companies need to think a bit broader and supply a variety of finite things to do for players so that they can log in and not have to grind (quests or mobs) or even end game content. Part of that might be more mini games and mini games that really are fun to do. Not just time wasters (like fishing). Or maybe even a revamp of fishing so that it is more amusing and serves a greater entertainment purpose.

In L2, there really needs to be something else to do other than grind. And if you are going to pvp there needs to different rewards to make up for the fact that you will spend much of your time replacing your xp or working the hard economy. However, if you make it easy to do this then you lose the loyalty of the hardcore players. If you make it hard then you lose the casual players.

This is why L2 probably wont’ ever appeal to casual players as the target market (at least as they advertised it) is the hardcore pvp player. Or, they need to make it so that there are different servers. One for casual players which allows for many other diversions and one for hardcore pvp players that allow for clan ranking, xp for pvp, greater rewards for sieging and winning clan wars, etc.

Granado Espada is by far the game with most micromanagement I've played (you are almost constantly in an AoE situation, and you control three characters at the same time), and sure enough, once you get the hang of what to do... that's what you do.

Even beat 'em ups, which are on a completely different level of complexity compared to MMOGs, are certainly predictable after a while against an AI opponent.

The only interesting grind would be PvP-based - but any system involving PvP is exploitable (see Olympiad) to some degree.

It's all not that easy. Everyone claims they have no grind and infinitely complex gameplay, and everyone seems to fail at this also. The second there is a level, there will be grinding - and designing a good game without levels seems to be too much for the industry at the moment.

Granado Espada was fun for about a day for me. Then after that I just couldnt get in to it. Its really a good concept!I did like that I could hit the spacebar and go out for a smoek and come back to a bit more xp. :cool:

A lot of great points in there Sovrath. Hopefully lots of people read it through. It made me think about something.

Why is the open PvP XP loss = PvE XP loss in L2?

This really does not make any sense to me. It is so much easier to die in PvP than PvE. By making PvP XP loss so high it discourages the casual gamer from participating in PvP: they either accept that they'll stay in the 6X levels forever and PvP often or they are highly selective on when they PvP.

ncsoft seems to have recognized this issue and introduced the consumables for sieges to eliminate XP loss. However, in my opinion, the most fun PvP is the open PvP: defending or taking hunting ground, alliance and clan wars, etc.

It would greatly improve the game if they eliminated or dramatically reduced XP loss resulting from PvP death. From level 52+ all deaths are 4%. Keep it 4% for PvE death but reduce it to 1% or less for PvP death and it would go a long, long way to bring the casual gamers into PvP.

It would greatly improve the game if they eliminated or dramatically reduced XP loss resulting from PvP death. From level 52+ all deaths are 4%. Keep it 4% for PvE death but reduce it to 1% or less for PvP death and it would go a long, long way to bring the casual gamers into PvP.

if you have a war declaired on the clan you are pvp'ing it is only 1%, in addition if you have a clan hall your % loss is cut in half.

if you have a war declaired on the clan you are pvp'ing it is only 1%, in addition if you have a clan hall your % loss is cut in half.

The problem is, most of the top-end PVP alliances don't want a clan war, they want open warfare, and want to truly defeat their enemies utterly.

What they don't realize is the self-defeating effect this has. If you continue to gank and grief your opponent, rendering them incapable of XPing... they generally stop playing, or they melt away into the background and you're left with no one to fight.

And, let's face it, very few players are truly interested in actually "fighting", they want to simply "pwn". They don't want to play tanks, support classes, healers, buffers, melees... they play Archers, or Nukers, or whatever FOTM class has the top-spot in the PvP rankings this chronicle. They want to kill as many people as quickly as absolutely possible.

Excepting very few instances, there is no "sportsmanship" in L2.

I would rather play a rewarding, difficult game with others who like a rewarding difficult game (even if there are not swarms of them) than play an easy game with lots of folks.

I'd like to play that game too. What's it called? Lineage 2 certainly isn't "rewarding" for many.

Now, in a game like L2, there is no such “rich” quest content. One couldn’t choose to level solely on quests. So there is the grind. Of course, where L2 shines is that this is an open pvp game so it allows for interaction between players “while” they grind and that supplies the fuel that runs the game. Not only does the grind allow for character advancement but it also make it so that players can decide on their relationships with other players, whether it friend or foe.

Another factor to this is that it also allows for a small group of “dedicated” players to reach the pinnacle of power as it isn’t easy to zip up to high level and gear. So people can say “hey, let’s make it easier so that everyone can get to high level and participate.

Perhaps, though I would wager that the majority of heroes, across every server, got there via less-than-legit means. Even if they did not directly participate in botting/ebaying, I would place money that they were members of clans and alliances that did take part in such activities, and rode those coattails to the disco-glow.

Through this, these players aren't really "hard core" or "dedicated" in the sense you mean. They're simply willing to spend RL money to reach those end-game levels and gear faster than anyone else. One might also note that these same players tend to be those most resistant to any change in the game that might challenge their domination.

My thought is that in the end, there is nothing but some sort of repetitive play for players by the very nature that these games “aren’t supposed to end”. This is a huge problem for developers because unless they are willing to invest money in many live events and constant content upgrades, there really is no way they can keep up with players who chew through these games. But investing in this type of thing is a huge gamble. If players “don’t bite” then you can shoot yourself in the foot. Especially since there seem to be players who have no problem with game hopping.

NCNA could take a clue from Codemasters and their port of Rising Force Online. Regardless of that game's myriad problems, the GM staff held regular PvP and non-PvP events that rewarded winners with gear and other in-game items.

The best-ever L2 event was the monster-army assaults on the various cities and towns some years ago. I think NCNA would not be remiss to continue having events like this in a more dynamic way. For example, a GM-controlled creature called "Dread Lord Annhilous" spawns outside Giran, makes an announcement, and starts spawning an undead (or demonic or whatever) army. A server-wide broadcast goes out, giving the various alliances, say, 30 minutes to gather and prepare for the defense of the city.

At the end of that time period, the Dread Lord and his armies march on Giran. If the players manage to kill the Dread Lord, they save the city. If not, he and his forces move through town and slaughter everyone. For the next week, Giran is off-limits to any PC that can't fight their way through the mobs at the gates, the town square, the GK, etc.

Dynamic content like that is *not* that difficult to implement, you simply need an Event Coordinator and a GM staff with the proper tools, imagination, and the drive to make the game a better, more dynamic world... something L2 sorely lacks.

NCNA could take a clue from Codemasters and their port of Rising Force Online. Regardless of that game's myriad problems, the GM staff held regular PvP and non-PvP events that rewarded winners with gear and other in-game items.

The best-ever L2 event was the monster-army assaults on the various cities and towns some years ago. I think NCNA would not be remiss to continue having events like this in a more dynamic way. For example, a GM-controlled creature called "Dread Lord Annhilous" spawns outside Giran, makes an announcement, and starts spawning an undead (or demonic or whatever) army. A server-wide broadcast goes out, giving the various alliances, say, 30 minutes to gather and prepare for the defense of the city.

At the end of that time period, the Dread Lord and his armies march on Giran. If the players manage to kill the Dread Lord, they save the city. If not, he and his forces move through town and slaughter everyone. For the next week, Giran is off-limits to any PC that can't fight their way through the mobs at the gates, the town square, the GK, etc.

Dynamic content like that is *not* that difficult to implement, you simply need an Event Coordinator and a GM staff with the proper tools, imagination, and the drive to make the game a better, more dynamic world... something L2 sorely lacks.

Well, I agree. that is what is needed to help alleviate a grind of any kind.

But as you pointed out, they need to have the appropriate resources for every server. That is where it can get expensive.

Wardancer I liked your idea of the army storming Giran. However I must point out to many people would complain about not being able to set up sell or buy shops. Plus the fact they would all die while they were afk and have to make up the xp loss. I am just pointing this out. Personally if I had a sell shop up and came back to the computer dead because of this I would be angry that I missed the event not that I had to make up the xp.

L2 is very dynamic even for the causal gamer (myself). What has made the game so dynamic? The players themselves. Look at the politics involved in the game. Do you think the game designers who dreamt up the game thought that things would get so crazy? Even when I am unable to play the game due to RL stuff I enjoy reading the message boards at work because it allows me access to the community and to keep somehwhat abreast of happenings in game. The server I play Hindmith or Dramamith is very dynamic and everyone has their favourite group to hate. This is brought about by players not by NCSoft.

Sure their are things I dislike in the game. For one who doesnt have some problem with the economy? However one of the things that really impressed me about the game is to see capitalism at work around the globe. I was totally amazed when I first came to the game in C2 (when Gludio was the place to be) and could see buying and selling. Sure the design lent to the development of botting and the trading of RL money for ingame adena and gear, but the fact that game economy mirrors going to a shopping center and buying what you need (or want) still amazes me. Did the designers dream this up no.....the players made this happen.

The PVE aspect of the game can get boring with the click on mob and attack mentality. It then became sleep mobs and only attack one when in groups. (BTW I thought this was absurd since I had a pole but that was the mentality back in C2.) Then someone came up with the idea of poling and the game dynamics changed. As a poler I had to learn the hard way how to become effective. For me their is no more excitement than having a good pole group and come screaming into a room with a huge train behind me. The game dynamically changed because of the players. It made the game more exciting.

PvP is something I have not learned to enjoy as much. The only dynamic change I see is the FoTM characters. I have stuck with my main character and was incapable of doing real pvp because I was dropped to quickly. However I found a niche at sieges and that aspect became fun for me. Sure the loss of 4% hurt but then they changed it. The loss of 4% while pvping hurt but they have changed that as well with clan wars and the advent of bsoe. I still havent reached 75 but I look forward to it because I can subclass.

So what makes the game so dynamic? Is it the designers making changes in the game? Yes to a small degree. It is the players however who add more dynamics into the game. I have seen alliances come and go and friendships dissolve into out right hatred and then back to friendships. The diversity of people playing the game and attitudes held make L2 so interesting for me that I always come back to it. Sure the game has problems, but it still amazes me. Think about how many people you have met and consider friends that live around the world. Not to mention you do this sitting at home in front of your computer. How many people around the world do you speak to on a regular basis over vent/ts or just chat with in game? How much do you now know about these people? Isnt that downright cool?

For me it is the player base of the game that makes the game dynamic not the designers. They unleash their changes and then we run with it. How many nerfs hurt you but made you dynamically change the way you played the game? How many times have you been more careful in game because of a war? How many times have you been absolutely thrilled when you ganked someone? Do you relish the accomplishment of taking out a major boss, taking a castle, finishing a quest that was a thorn in your side, or become exicited from a pvp? Most of these things are game mechanics that the player base uses to make the fun for themselves. When was the last time they changed Monopoly, but do you still have fun playing it?

New games will come, but it is the player base who make them exciting. Players will always whine, but a whining player is a happy player. :D

Have you looked at the server population levels lately? Lineage 2 is a mmog, most zones or areas have no activitiy at all. Populations are light most of the time. Eventually your castle sieges will be 2 vs 2.
Look at the drop rates in the game. If this is not an example of time sink for monthly income for NCsoft then what is it? The game needs some help thats all I am trying to say. The reason players have henchmen in guild wars is because they need people to play with. Same for bots in Lineage 2.
Wake up and smell the roses Lineage2 is for a nich group of players, usually folks that have money to buy adena online. The game is dying its all over the forums.

NCSOFT enjoy the the income while you have but North American MMO Players arent dumb like they were in the past. People dont have the time to commit to your software that was designed for income from the ground up instead of a game. Lord British needs to step in.

Bah, if LB ever came onto my Server as a regular player and it was announced a month ahead of time, I'd start working on a character named Rainz, just to drop him. ;) For those of you who get the reference...woot!

No to the plea to LB imo. :mad:

However I must point out to many people would complain about not being able to set up sell or buy shops. Plus the fact they would all die while they were afk and have to make up the xp loss. I am just pointing this out. Personally if I had a sell shop up and came back to the computer dead because of this I would be angry that I missed the event not that I had to make up the xp.

I know they would complain. That's partially the point. Would they complain as much when Guilds/Allies X, Y, Z and 1, 2 3 swept in and saved the city from certain destruction? Probably not. Would they complain when super-duper hard-core PvP alliance failed to live up to their "we pwn all!!!111one1!! attitudes and let Giran be overrun? Welcome to the court of public opinion. Welcome to a hard-core PvP game set in a grim world of perilous adventure... or is that the tag for WAR?

L2 is very dynamic even for the causal gamer (myself).

I define casual gamer. I log in once a week to attend a RP event, and maybe once or twice more to see if there's any parties available. When there isn't, I log off and play another game, one that include dynamic storylines, regularly-updated and new content, an attentive support staff, and rewarding game play.

Look at the politics involved in the game. Do you think the game designers who dreamt up the game thought that things would get so crazy?

Yes, I believe the designers did envision this, and, so far, the game has progressed (in the political sense) in exactly the way it was intended to. The politics of Lionna, however, have not substantially changed in over two years. It's a polar server, regardless of the names and tags involved.

Then someone came up with the idea of poling and the game dynamics changed.

Correction. The game design changed, and poling became possible. In the earlier days, there were no 1/2 HP mobs, pole-group mobs, or the levels, gear and spells available to make poling a reality. There was no VR, there were no BREZ, there were no Catas or Necros, there was no TOI or Ancient Battlegrounds. The world, by and large, ended at the Ivory Tower.

Players did not "invent" poling, the AOE classes have existed since the beginning of the game. The designers simply gave us the tools to make it a reality... and then later nerfed the ability to implement them.

For me their is no more excitement than having a good pole group and come screaming into a room with a huge train behind me.

Agreed, I've pulled more mobs in one go at AB than can be found in an entire catacomb. Even this grows stale after awhile. Much like anything else in this game, once the newness wears off and you get the hang of the mechanics, it becomes rote repetition.

How many nerfs hurt you but made you dynamically change the way you played the game? How many times have you been more careful in game because of a war? How many times have you been absolutely thrilled when you ganked someone? Do you relish the accomplishment of taking out a major boss, taking a castle, finishing a quest that was a thorn in your side, or become exicited from a pvp?

None of this is inherent to L2, save for the castle bit, but more on that in a moment. I can do all of the ganking, PvP, raiding, questing, etc. in other, more rewarding games that also feature dynamic content, a visible, present, helpful and friendly in-game support staff, and a billion other things to do beside grind, grind grind. As an aside, one of the problems with L2 is that, for all the effort and hard work involved, the gear is not scaled so far as to feel actually rewarding. Whee, it took me six months, and I've got a +5 PAtk/PDef/MDef/MAtk whatever. <-_->

Castle seiging... been there, done that. Won some, lost some, fought others to a draw. It gets old after awhile, and Lionna, again, is locked in a two-sided struggle. Some of the smaller, more useless castles are available for "neutral" alliance fights, but these castles, I'm sure, make little and cost a tonne.

Instead of actually winning the castle, I think I'd rather just fight my way to the Seal and stick a "Kyrael was here" flag on it and walk away (which, by the way, I can do to certain items in the landscape in another game, and "lock" my tag there for a week... anyone trailing my path can see where I've been, and who's come before them).

The PVE aspect of the game can get boring with the click on mob and attack mentality.

I'm a Swordsinger, there's not a lot else to our combat style. In AOE parties, we're also often the puller, since we're faster, longer, than any other class... but outside that, we're point-click-attack-sing-sing-rinse-repeat.


I do agree with you in the main about how it is that players create the world, and it is by their actions that the world becomes what it is. How unfortunate that the world of Aden simply seems far more populated with the bad than it is the good. I don't mean even "carebears", though I suppose you could look at it that way, but instead generally, minimally decent individuals with at least a passing nod of general human respect.

Perhaps I'm too Euro for L2? I dunno. My experience has been that the good are far outnumbered by the bad, and that first group dwindles every day. My friendslist contains more names that will never again log in than it has room left for more people.

Players will always whine, but a whining player is a happy player.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that, not at this stage of the game.

Problem is i would define myself as a hardcore gamer when i played regularly 3 - 4 hours each night.

However L2 is not for hardcore gamers its for gamers with no lives what so ever. To be successful in l2 the top people on my server grind 10 - 20 hours a day 7 days a week. Thats not hardcore thats some person that has no job or school to go to and just lives inside a virtiual world all week.

Im not asking for the grind to be like WoW and be max level in 6 weeks. But for someone like me who is almost 3 years into the game not even close to 80 something is wrong with that picture. Ive had friends try out this game and they like so when can we group together im like maybe in 6 - 8 months when you get into your high 60's low 70's. And before you mental midgets go into the whole well you can make an alt to group with them, well I shouldnt have to make an alt just to play with my friends. CoH/Cov fixes this problem with sidekicks that your sidekicks skills/stats get boosted within 3 levels lower then you when they group with you but they recieve the same xp/sp % they would for their level. But instead my friends go oh well ill find another game instead.

Top level in a mmorpg should be achiveable with hardcore gameplay which would be 20 - 30 hours a week in 6 months. If you play 20 - 30 hours a week you might play for 3 years and not reach 80. And whats the point to it? If i kill a vampire 10 times or 10 million does that make me any better of a player or just a mindless zombie?

Reason automated people are so successful in this game is that requires no effort to level in l2 a trained monkey can mash the same attack button i can for the next 80 hours to get the level.

No one wants to tell a new friend hey 6 months you might be able to pvp someone and maybe we can party together. NCSoft shows it does not care about L2 because it chooses not to market it at all in NA/Europe and Guild wars is its love child here.

I think we need another Q&A session - one more extensive than the others before. Forget 20 minutes of content, I want to roast'em for at least 2 hours. :D