there have been a lot of questions like this lately and most new players did not seem interested in the playstyle of the class so much as the amount of damage it does versus other classes. so i wrote this guide starting with an idea from Wardancer. roles include: tank, damage dealer, healer, mob herder, crowd control, single-target buffer, party buffer, ally buffer, defensive assist, offensive assist, and none. damage (fullbuffed) is ranked low to very high and based on damage dealt to single mobs. damage (selfbuffed) is ranked very low to high and based on damage dealt to single mobs. this list does not take into account the possible effects of boss jewelry. the ratings are based on C5 abilities, if you disagree with any portion of this please feel free to dispute it because im sure i made some mistakes, or have a different opinion of certain classses, and the idea here is to get new players some good information. note that no class scored a "very high" or "very low" in PvP/PvE Defense. i will edit this later to include playstyle/general descriptions of each class.
paladin
Soloability: very low
Damage (fullbuffed): low
Damage (selfbuffed): very low
PvP Offense: very low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role: defensive assist
dark avenger
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role: defensive assist
treasure hunter
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
hawkeye
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: none
sorcerer/ess
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
necromancer
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: crowd control
Secondary Role: damage dealer
warlock
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: party buffer
temple knight
Soloability: very low
Damage (fullbuffed): low
Damage (selfbuffed): very low
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role: defensive assist
swordsinger
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: party buffer
Secondary Role: defensive assist
plainswalker
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role:
Secondary Role: offensive assist
silver ranger
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
spellsinger
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
elemental summoner
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: party buffer
abyss walker
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
phantom ranger
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
spellhowler
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: offensive assist
phantom summoner
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: healer
A good idea, but I can't agree with everything that's being written here.
Soloability: Summoners are top-tier, no two ways around it. Necromancers and SHs are tied to empower, summoners can and will do it all themselves.
Damage (self-buffed): You underestimate DA and WS - those summons pack a nasty punch.
I also don't think you have the roles down properly for most classes ... at least for the ones I play I can say:
Prophet is primarily a buffer, and a secondary (and good) crowd controller.
Elven Elder is primarily a healer, and a secondary (and good) crowd controller. Buffs come as a nice bonus at the end.
The lists are simply a bit too simple, I think, to convey a good idea of how a class winds up playing.
The Spellhowler got Soloability high, but the prophet low, why is that? Solo means without boxed buffer or whatever.
> prophet
> Soloability: low
I can solo on 76 without problems. Its slow, but that is because of the lvl.
> Damage (fullbuffed): low
> Damage (selfbuffed): high
Compared to other classes or in general?
> PvP Offense: very low
> PvP Defense: moderate
> PvE Offense: low
> PvE Defense: moderate
While I kind of agree on the offense, the defense is wrong. Prophets have like all mystics mdef passive skills + their buffs, thats makes them very good against any type of magical attack (with same buffs and armor, OL/WC got the best mdef ingame, after that Elves Mystics, then Humans then Dark Elves, but due to our buffs I think that prophets got the best magicly defense).
> Primary Role: single-target buffer
> Secondary Role: none
Secondary role would be assisting healer, assisting DD.
There is a few errors here and there for sure, I can say for sure that both Tyrants and Destroyer solo ability is far from LOW, we can solo fine, we got some really nice self buffs and combine that with aloc pots and drops from mobs and you solo even better.
first id like to say that i dont have the time to respond to all the responses, as ive got a lil sister's birthday party to catch.
Soloability: Summoners are top-tier, no two ways around it. Necromancers and SHs are tied to empower, summoners can and will do it all themselves.
necros and sh can fight mobs nonstop, even without empower. so they are better at killing solo than other classes (every other class i know of, has to rest rather often when truely soloing). note that no classes got a score of "very high" for soloability, i could easily change them to be "very high" without changing any other data.
Damage (self-buffed): You underestimate DA and WS - those summons pack a nasty punch.
compare to paly and BH. i actually added one level to this based on the summons.
Prophet is primarily a buffer, and a secondary (and good) crowd controller. Elven Elder is primarily a healer, and a secondary (and good) crowd controller. Buffs come as a nice bonus at the end.
i realize that i left this out. i think what i need to do is add like 2 more "secondary" roles to EE. crowd control, in general, is something i dont do when i play, so i overlooked this a bit, will be fixed.
The lists are simply a bit too simple, I think, to convey a good idea of how a class winds up playing.
prophet
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): low*
Damage (selfbuffed): high**
PvP Offense: very low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: single-target buffer
Secondary Role: none
*compared to other classes which are also fully buffed.
**compared to other classes which are also self-buffed.
also should probably change OL and WC PvP defense to high. high m def and heavy armor masteries. as for a secondary role for prophets, i was temped to put "sitting", but that wasnt one of the options. pardon me for not having encountered a lot of real ones. and if "sitting" was an option, it would certainly be a secondary role of WS >.<
My suggestions on how to go about this would probably be to poll people who played those various classes and see what they think about their classes. We have all partied / been in clans/alliances / been friends with most classes, but nothing beats playing a class for 2+ years to know how it really plays.
And perhaps have a few more descriptive words for how good each class is in each category, for example:
awful, very bad, bad, poor, average, fair, good, excellent, superb
Perhaps instead of PvP and PvE damage, you could put Close and Ranged attacks.
I've played a warlock quite a bit and I can assure you that resting is not something you often do. Well, maybe once per level in your 50s if you REALLY mess up your pulling and end up with 5-6 white mobs on you and do that a few times in a row, then you might have to rest.
As far as Overlords go, we are one of the harder classes to kill in both PvP and PvE. As far as killing goes, with our steal essence we can kill for a long time in PvE without needing to rest.
And perhaps put a High level soloability and Low level soloability, since in some cases it can vary greatly. Or maybe add a Solo + oop buffer category.
For instance:
Spellhowler
Low level soloability: superb
High level soloability: average
High level Solo + Buffer: Superb
Necromancer
Low level soloability: superb
High level soloability: average
High level Solo + Buffer: excellent (bad against dark resist)
Sorcerer
Low level soloability: superb
High level soloability: poor
High level solo + buffer: good
Warlock
Low level soloability: good
High level soloability: good
High level Solo + buffer: excellent
found a typo. warlock should have had soloability "high" even in the first draft. note that SpS has soloability "moderate", which, for most of us here on earth, is quite definitionally lower than "high". but you are right, warlock, ES, and PS should all have "very high" in this catagory, i agree. however you cannot deny that buffs outside their skillset can still help them, and it baffles me as to why anyone would play a massive multiplayer game so that they can be in party no one other than themselves all day, which is why i originally left out the "very high" score. in my view of L2, no one should solo. with each passing update it becomes clearer that NC doesnt see things that way.
you are absolutely correct, players who have actually played these classes are going to better know what their class is good at. i have not, as you might have guessed, ever played a prophet or true summoner class. as for the soloing thing, i was only considering higher levels. and for overlords, i know you can solo pretty nonstop, but the damage that you are doing most of the time (between drains) is melee based with sub-par buffs. that puts you at a sub-par level of xp over time compared to an unbuffed ranged class such as nuker or archer, that gets 10x as many kills because they dont have to run so much between mobs and do more damage in a single hit (at little to no risk to themselves) and then has to rest for a short time. i also (and this may be incorrect) suggested that WC can solo significantly better, based on their buffset (and thus i should have noticed that prophets should have soloability of "moderate", but that error has already been pointed out). hopefully someone who has played both classes can state if there is a desparity between the two or not. and i dont like the idea of telling new players that they have to have 5 accounts to play this game. something about that just irks me. if you want to start your own new player guide feel free to mention the possible benefits of 3 oop buffers.
edit: another typo. plainswaler primary role should read "damage dealer", somehow i left it blank.
Regardless of some inaccuracies that it may have, this thread is great. And I agree with katastrophe's suggestion, to let people that play the classes express themselves through a poll. Keep it up.
it baffles me as to why anyone would play a massive multiplayer game so that they can be in party no one other than themselves all day
It doesn't matter whether you understnad why people want to solo (maybe, for example, because at any times except events, they might be out of others' level reach - and of course very high soloability, especially in the case of summoners, does not at all imply being useless in a party) for whether or not you should have such a rating. :p
Soloability is an issue, since almost all classes can solo (green mob, no resistances). I think that soloability should be changed to downtime, since all classes have downtime (it's a basic mechanic of the game). The question for downtime should be how often and for how long. The refference to my opinion should be equal level, 1X HP mobs, with no particular resistances or vulnerabilities.
Bishop and EE damages should be listed as very low. They hit like wet noodles. Much worse than paladins or others you have ranked as very low.
Warlords solo better than healers, and their damage output is better. Relative to other melee's they might be low, but overall they rate higher. They need a bump up.
Dark Avengers tend to solo better than the other tanks due to the cat, not sure if that rates a bump up though.
I can't agree on the relative rankings of gladiators and summoners. Glads put out at least as much damage as a summoner.
Silver rangers have a low soloability? On what planet. A soloing SR can blow past a bishop or EE any day. Ditto with the PR.
PvE and PvP offense moderate for bishops and EE's? Since when? No, their offense is low.
Your rankings on the tyrant and destroyer need complete overhauls. You've underrated them badly.
Bounty hunters are not the worst soloers, they could make it to low.
Overall I think you've been too harsh on soloability. Maybe move more up to moderate (like the archers, gladiator, maybe BD, and destroyer), and some to very high. Right now you have all but a few classes at low. There's not enough distinction.
By that logic nukers have downtime while they charge their spells... seriously. If you're up and doing something, you don't have downtime - BtM ain't downtime, neither is recharging. Downtime is when you're sitting on your butt waiting to level.
I don't think the list is C5 compliant.
Melee gained great ground in C5 due to herbs and classes like Spellsinger and Sorceror are actually slower than most melee in pure solo past the 2 minute mark.
Let's start by changing "soloability" to something more comparative to other classes.
Just remove the "ability" part of it and leave it "solo" to be more clear about the fact that even a poor rating solos just fine, but slower than an excellent rating.
Let's begin with an "average" and vary from there.
Let's define some terms:
-Primary Role: roles the party will probably be best off having you do
-Secondary Role: something that will take a little adjustment but that the class is better at that most give it credit for... also used when covering for a class that is more optimal, but not present.
Let me edit classes I am most familiar with and use the following scale:
Excellent
Good
Above Average
Average
Below AVerage
Poor
Dismal
bishop
Solo: Poor
Damage (fullbuffed): Dismal
Damage (selfbuffed): Poor
PvP Offense: Dismal
PvP Defense: Above Average
PvE Offense: Poor
PvE Defense: Good
Primary Role: healer, control, resurrection
Secondary Role: doesn't need one
Notes: Damage values and solo speed are MUCH higher against undead. PvE defense value is listed as Good despite the fact they usually wear robes due to the sheer amount of healing and control they bring to the table.
necromancer
Solo: Excellent
Damage (fullbuffed): Good
Damage (selfbuffed): Excellent
PvP Offense: Excellent
PvP Defense: Average
PvE Offense: Excellent
PvE Defense: Good
Primary Role: Damage dealer, debuffer
Secondary Role: Crowd control
Notes: Pet raises damage output and sustainability by a solid margin. Paralyze and silence allow for a reasonable amount of emergency control.
paladin
Solo: Average
Damage (fullbuffed): Below Average
Damage (selfbuffed): Below Average
PvP Offense: Below Average
PvP Defense: Excellent
PvE Offense: Below Average
PvE Defense: Excellent
Primary Role: tank, crowd control
Secondary Role: healer
Notes: Damage output rises significantly against undead, root and aoe root combined with their defensive abilities allow massive control over any situation.
spellhowler
Solo: Excellent
Damage (fullbuffed): Good
Damage (selfbuffed): Good
PvP Offense: Excellent
PvP Defense: Dismal
PvE Offense: Good
PvE Defense: Poor
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role: control casters
Notes: Mana recovery not as much of a problem as other nukers with the most mana recovery available to any nuker. Silence allows Spellhowlers to neutralize casters
spellsinger
Solo: Below average
Damage (fullbuffed): Good
Damage (selfbuffed): Above Average
PvP Offense: Excellent
PvP Defense: Dismal
PvE Offense: Good
PvE Defense: Poor
Primary Role: none (mana sponge)
Secondary Role: burst damage dealer
Notes: Damage values/Offense are burst damage only, this class is among the worst in the game for sustained damage output.
warlock
Solo: Excellent
Damage (fullbuffed): Good
Damage (selfbuffed): Excellent
PvP Offense: Excellent
PvP Defense: Average
PvE Offense: Excellent
PvE Defense: Good
Primary Role: damage dealer, party buffer
Secondary Role: secondary tank
Notes: Primary role depends on which pet is chosen
warsmith
Solo: Average
Damage (fullbuffed): Average
Damage (selfbuffed): Average
PvP Offense: Below Average
PvP Defense: Good
PvE Offense: Average
PvE Defense: Good
Primary Role: AoE damage with polearm/pet
Secondary Role: Secondary tank
Notes: Damage values are listed for single target and not AoE. Pet raises Damage values a notch.
Bishop and EE damages should be listed as very low. They hit like wet noodles. Much worse than paladins or others you have ranked as very low.
bishop and EE have a nuke versus undead. paly has banish undead, but honestly i have idea what it does, damage per mp.
Warlords solo better than healers, and their damage output is better. Relative to other melee's they might be low, but overall they rate higher. They need a bump up.
as i specified in the starting paragragh, damage was based on a single mob, and on mobs which are green (i know, didnt specify this last part). a warlord can solo against light blue mobs without buffs up to a certain level, but because of the standard to which i held all the classes, warlord came up Looking a bit short. same for both of the dwarf classes, since i didnt really have a way of figuring in aoe.
Dark Avengers tend to solo better than the other tanks due to the cat, not sure if that rates a bump up though.
i thought about this, really i did. and having played a dark avenger i know what a big difference the cat makes. but i only had five catagories and was trying to take the avage of the class, not soloing setups. i guess i should have made some sort of note like "WS with summon" and "WS without summon" same for DA?
Silver rangers have a low soloability? On what planet. A soloing SR can blow past a bishop or EE any day. Ditto with the PR.
thats a typo. all archers should have been scored solobility "moderate".
PvE and PvP offense moderate for bishops and EE's? Since when?
since mana burn. that reminds me, SE should have been "moderate" as well.
Overall I think you've been too harsh on soloability. Maybe move more up to moderate (like the archers, gladiator, maybe BD, and destroyer), and some to very high. Right now you have all but a few classes at low. There's not enough distinction.
there are 31 classes. very high: 4 (the summoners). high: 1 (SH). moderate: 7 (SpS, sorc, archers, WC, prophet). low: 15 (anyone doing melee-type damage, that requires time to run the distance from mob to mob). very low: 4 (warlord, paladin, TK, BH). note again that this is against green mobs, not light blue ones. else they all would have scored "low" instead. note also that a score of "very high" here implies that a class probably is going to get less xp in a party, than they will solo. i think ill group SH into the "very high" category, bump the "moderate"s into "high" and re-evaluate the differences in the "low"s. ty for the feedback.
i see your reasoning. i was making a bitter comment about a bug, and making fun of myself. i changed it to "very high". but i havnt edited the original yet, as i think there will be a lot more complaints and id rather only post the final draft twice.
here are 31 classes. very high: 4 (the summoners). high: 1 (SH). moderate: 7 (SpS, sorc, archers, WC, prophet). low: 15 (anyone doing melee-type damage, that requires time to run the distance from mob to mob). very low: 4 (warlord, paladin, TK, BH)
Prophets and WC's also have to run from mob to mob. They can't level with nukes. They're good soloers, but with herbs, I doubt they can kill any faster than a dagger or tyrant.
You should upgrade the tyrant. Their PvE damage especially is easily on par with the daggers or archers. PvP I'm not so sure.
one note i want to make after reading these posts; most of you list reasons for your discrepancies based on skills gained above lvl 56.
perhaps the UNDER 56 game is a lot more different than you think.
just as an example; i am sure KFC meant bishop has moderate pvp damage in the original post because of mana burn; i am certain that thalenduros considers paladin's role of CrowdControl because of root skills.
whereas summoners of ANY level shouldnt see any difference in pvp, pve, soloing, etc. the skills gained at 56 arent of consequence to these roles.
then again with Destroyer and tyrant; a lot of mention is made about the high damage output and good defence of both classes but neglected to mention is the fact that youre basing this on the inclusion of the Zealot/infernal form/guts/frenzy skills leanred at higher levels.
56 isnt high i know, but a LOT of people reroll and dont make it past 52 in this game. ive seen people quit at level 30 cause the grind was too hard. 56 is relatively (RELATIVELY!) high for most.
I play a Destroyer. With buffs, they are very rugged and have moderately high damage output for melee, not including frenzy and other "survival" skills. Also, with buffs, they level fast when working on multi-hp mob or using a poles, but somewhat slow when grinding open field against 1X mobs.
Using Frenzy to lvl without VR is like standing on the edge of a building blindfolded. You either have to start spamming hp pots, or hope for the right herb to drop.(well, unless battle roar is ready, but even then).
things that i dont agree with.
Bishop: PvP Offense: Dismal (what about mana burn?)
Bishop: Secondary Role: doesn't need one (serriously i think all classes need at least two roles to make them entertaining to play)
Warsmith: damage (i think you completely overrated by about one notch in both areas. they have no self buffs, and only blunt masteries. blunts have the lowest damage output of any weapon)
edit: also id like to ask, what does banish undead do? is it a nuke against undead? is it less effective than a bishop nuking undead?
If you are burning in PvP, I **** well hope you are a prophet or Shillien Elder (whose job it isn't to be busy healing).
The bishop is a dedicated healing specialist, that really is all they can do - except maybe a bit of disruption. Offensive bishops are possible but useless as offensive units compared to others that could be doing the same thing, or a bishop doing their job.
Banish is a fear spell with a chance to one-hit undead - and costs ore.
You don't need VR to frenzy, you need a trustworthy party mate and a relatively secluded spot or political neutrality. Letting mobs drop HP is difficult but not something I'd fancy doing at a higher level. I'd much rather have a dorfie with a blunt or something similar frenzy me - or in the case of an AoE group a trustworthy healer who knows how low to let my HP sink before healing.
revised. these descriptions are intended for accuracy in C5, levels 60-75 (where i think most people that play these classes as a main spend their time leveling, and before the stupidskills set in). this is very unfinished, and im having a hard time trying to find things to say about classes which i have no opinion on, or dont know anything about. any critisism would be appreciated, even if you just want to call me a midget or something.
WARLORD
Soloability: very low
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: very low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: herder
Secondary Role(s): none
warlord (PvE): if you love area of effect attacks, the warlord was the perfect class for you! unfortunately for you, in NA/EU, AOE parties are typically single-player oprations. your best bet is to buy 2 more accounts for Lineage2 so that you can box a shillen elder for buffs, and a bishop (or elven elder) for fast and effective heals, so you can play with yourself all day.
warlord (PvP): worst PvP class in Lineage2 at present. reason for this is that most everyone uses a bow or nukes at range, and two enemies using bows arent going to stand really close to each other so you can hit both of them at the same time with your polearm. PvP against a single dwarf is simply depressing. although the damage you give and take will be similar, the dwarf can carry a lot more cp pots than you can.
gladiator(PvE): ??
gladiator(PvP): as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def and lack of a shield will often be what does you in.
PALADIN
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): low
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: very high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: very high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
paladin (PvE): your expertise is in killing undead, so if you are soloing take a trip to your local dropsite (statics) and find out where they are. your hate skills work well for pet parties, and shield stun has a nice land rate to prevent you from being hit too much.
paladin (PvP): ??
DARK AVENGER (without summon)
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: very high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: very high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
DARK AVENGER (with summon)
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: very high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: very high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
dark avenger (PvE): you are one of two classes with an optional summon, and like the warsmith you can be effective in a party without the summon, but for solo you will probably want to use it. your hate skills work well for pet parties, and shield stun has a nice land rate to prevent you from being hit too much.
dark avenger (PvP): ??
TREASURE HUNTER
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
HAWKEYE
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): none
hawkeye (PvE): the hawkeye is a very slow runner compared to the other two archer classes, and so the playstyle is completely different. they look for a stable position to stand and fire, rather than running all over to kite the enemy.
hawkeye (PvP): what do you get when you combine massive ranged damage with the ability to carry 353485y35 CP potions? you can't lose! pwn everyone!
SORCERER/ESS
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
sorcerer/ess (PvE): if you like area of effect attacks but also like to do powerful single target damage when you need to, this would have been the class for you. and because you dont have the infinite mana loop that necro and SH have, you might want to consider getting a second account that will buff you with empower or clarity and recharge you.
sorcerer/ess (PvP): select a target and spam f2 until the target is dead. it really cant get any simpler than this.
NECROMANCER
Soloability: very high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: crowd control
Secondary Role(s): damage dealer, tank
necromancer (PvE): pick and choose. you can paralyze mobs and then beat them dead with your fists, or put them out of their misery quickly with a couple nukes. the playstyle of this class is limited by your own (often devious!) creativity.
necromancer (PvP): welcome to calvinball. all of the major debuffs, the best summon in the game, a nuke that is on par with nuker classes, and a couple skills that combine to give you infinite mana. but you will probably only need 1-2 skills in any given PvP situation to kill an entire party.
WARLOCK
Soloability: very high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): party buffer, tank
warlock (PvE): ??
warlock (PvP): with the addition of the erase skill in C5, summoners arent nearly as useful in PvP as they used to be, once your summon is gone its time to run.
bishop (PvE): you are hands down the BEST healer in the game!! no one can match you in your uber healingness!! unfortunately, due to the fact that the ranged/dd classes dont need healers in party (they never get hit), and the melees cant survive in a party without VR regardless of how much mp you have, you are effectively a useless xp leech. dont worry though, becasue you can always solo for that xp. in C5 they even added hp/mp/might/emp/haste/focus/ww pots, so that you can solo (with any weapon but a bow or polearm) twice as long before resting! some of these pots are even more effective than a bishop's best heals, healing 100% of lost hp! and they drop off every other mob! so what are you waiting for, go get em tiger!
bishop (PvP): this class truely shines in party-sized PvP, as they are the only healer with the slightest chance to keep someone alive once theyve been targeted.
PROPHET
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): low
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: very low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: single-target buffer
Secondary Role(s): crowd control, escape artist
prophet (PvE): ??
prophet (PvP): ??
TEMPLE KNIGHT
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): low
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: very high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: very high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
temple knight (PvE): with the lowest damage output in the game, and lots of hate and self-heal skills, you are the BEST tank for raids, but since you will always be in the tank party you cant really get xp this way. nukers and archers will love it when you give them 98% of your hard-earned xp.
temple knight (PvP): you have the best shield defense in the game! but that means basically bubcus becasue people will be critting on you for 4k THROUGH the shield. watch out for melee classes but dont be too worried because you can outrun them easily.
SWORDSINGER
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: low
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: party buffer
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
swordsinger (PvE): ??
swordsinger (PvP): you can root archers but they will still kill you unless you have friends backing you up.
PLAINSWALKER
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
plainswalker (PvE): ??
plainswalker (PvP): ??
SILVER RANGER
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): none
silver ranger (PvE): the SR is the fastest archer but also the weakest, depending on crit rate more than p att to do damage. they kill their enemies by shooting, running from the target while they load an arrow, and then shooting again, this tactic is called kiting.
silver ranger (PvP): ??
SPELLSINGER
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
spellsinger (PvE): you will spend a lot of time regenning mp, unless you have 3 other accounts to recharge you.
spellsinger (PvP): select a target and spam f2 until the target is dead. it really cant get any simpler than this.
ELEMENTAL SUMMONER
Soloability: very high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): party buffer, tank
elemental summoner (PvE): ??
elemental summoner (PvP): with the addition of the erase skill in C5, summoners arent nearly as useful in PvP as they used to be, once your summon is gone its time to run.
elven elder (PvE): your expertise is in killing undead, so if you are soloing take a trip to your local dropsite (statics) and find out where they are. you are also a flexible character to play in a party, with unique buffs and good heals, but other classes can buff more effectively.
elven elder (PvP): ??
SHILLIEN KNIGHT
Damage (selfbuffed): low
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: very high
PvE Offense: low
PvE Defense: very high
Primary Role: tank
Secondary Role(s): crowd control
shillien knight (PvE): this is the most nuker-like tank, they do well with high m att weapons and compliment their defense with magical attacks.
shillien knight (PvP): in combat, you can paralyze enemies, which is a lot more effective than just rooting them, but you can do that do. watch out for melee classes but dont be too worried because you can outrun them easily.
blade dancer (PvE): ??
blade dancer (PvP): you can root archers but they will still kill you unless you have friends backing you up.
ABYSS WALKER
Soloability: low
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
abyss walker (PvE): ??
abyss walker (PvP): ??
PHANTOM RANGER
Soloability: high
Damage (fullbuffed): very high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: very high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: very high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): none
phantom ranger (PvE): the PR naturally hit harder than the SR, but they shoot noticably slower. they also kill enemies by kiting.
phantom ranger (PvP): ??
SPELLHOWLER
Soloability: very high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: low
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: low
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): offensive assist
spellhowler (PvE): ??
spellhowler (PvP): select a target and spam f2 until the target is dead. it really cant get any simpler than this.
PHANTOM SUMMONER
Soloability: very high
Damage (fullbuffed): high
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: high
PvP Defense: moderate
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: damage dealer
Secondary Role(s): healer, tank
phantom summoner (PvE): ??
phantom summoner (PvP): with the addition of the erase skill in C5, summoners arent nearly as useful in PvP as they used to be, once your summon is gone its time to run.
DESTROYER
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: offensive assist
Secondary Role(s): herder
destroyer (PvE): smash stuff good. this is a recommened class for new players. its simple to use, fairly customizable at later levels, and has more hp than three elves put together. the trademark of this class is its low-hp, active skills.
destroyer (PvP): timing is everything. if you time it right and get frenzy up just before you get to the enemy, you become a one-man gank party. time it wrong, and you become the bait. as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def will often be what does you in.
TYRANT
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: offensive assist
Secondary Role(s): defensive assist
tyrant (PvE): smash stuff with fist.
tyrant (PvP): as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def and lack of a shield will often be what does you in.
WARCRYER
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): high
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: moderate
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: party buffer
Secondary Role(s): crowd control, healer-over-time, damage dealer-over-time, defensive assist
overlord (PvE): ??
overlord (PvP): OOM stands for "out of mana". you will frequently use this acronym when noobs who refused to get close to you, when you said in ally chat 7 times that you were going to buff, ask for buffs. and in a small scale PvP you will use all your mp killing one person.
bounty hunter (PvE): ever play those whack-a-mole games at a chucky cheese restaraunt? its like that. unless you do AOE, which is much more exciting but typically involves multiple accounts. the spoil skill is unique to this class and some people find it exciting to see a mob turn blue.
bounty hunter (PvP): instead of having any sort of PvP ability, the developers are trying to come up with a way to give dwarves an ecconomic advantage. it hasnt happened yet.
warsmith (PvE): ever play those whack-a-mole games at a chucky cheese restaraunt? its like that. unless you do AOE, which is much more exciting but typically involves multiple accounts. you will spend a lot of your time out-of-game looking for recipie/keymat drops to make sure that you are killing the right mobs to be able to craft what you want.
warsmith (PvP): instead of having any sort of PvP ability, the developers are trying to come up with a way to give dwarves an ecconomic advantage. it hasnt happened yet. and unlike the dark avenger, you have no skill to get aggro off of your summon once a mob has targeted it.
"tyrant (PvP): as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def and lack of a shield will often be what does you in."
Tyrants got no heavy armor masteries. Other then that, true they got high HP and M.def is there biggest weakness.
actually i just copied and pasted from gladiator, mistakes were made. getting sort of sick of the game lately so the effort was meh. i really wanted to say more about how they use totems (what situations they can best adapt to) but i just didnt know what to say, without lisiting their skills.
the class descriptions should be something that shows the pros and cons and a speciffic niche that that player will fill, both in PvP and PvE. i very much failed to do that. its a lot harder than it seems and requires more game experience than i will ever have.
not sure if these are accuarate but better than nothing. i need more help from people that play warlock, necromancer, elenemtal summoner, and phantom summoner to tell me exactly what each of their summons does, and what situations you would use each one in.
Gladiator PvE: you have three sets of special skills that set you apart from the other warriors. a set of passive skills that increase p att and p def when hp is low, a set of skills that increase your p att against certain mob types (like plant, insect etc.), and a set of active skills that require "charges". to charge up once, you use one energy stone, then you can use a skill that takes one charge.
Paladin PvP: shield stun and your mass root skills come in extremely handy, but nukers and archers will still kill you.
Dark Avenger PvP: shield stun and your single-target root skill comes in handy, but nukers and archers will still kill you. the dark panther goes down in two hits from most other players.
treasure hunter (PvE): ??
treasure hunter (PvP): ??
warlock (PvE): given the choice between warlock and necromaner (the two class options at level 40) the choice should be obvious, unless you just happen to like the idea of bouncy bipedal cats. the only thing that you really can do that the necromancer cant is buff party members.
prophet (PvE): ??
prophet (PvP): ??
Swordsinger PvE: unless there is a BD in the party it can be sort of boring. sing a song every 2 minutes and assist the tank the rest of the time. a good all-around character great for exploring aden, and can use a huge variety of weapon/armor setups effectively.
plainswalker (PvE): ??
plainswalker (PvP): ??
silver ranger (PvP): ??
elemental summoner (PvE): if you ever wondered what sound a unicorn makes, look no further!
elven elder (PvP): ??
blade dancer (PvE): unless there is a SwS in the party it can be sort of boring. dance three dances every 2 minutes and assist the tank the rest of the time. commonly thought of as the most visually appealing class in L2.
Tyrant PvE: smash stuff with fist. while the destroyer is a warrior/tank hybrid, you are a dagger/warrior hybrid. you get evasion bonuses instead of heavy armor masteries and a set of "totem" self-buffs. each totem lasts 2 minutes and you may only have one active at a time, but they greatly influence certain stats. like the gladiator you get a set of active skills that require "charges". to charge up once, you use one energy stone, then you can use a skill that takes one charge.
abyss walker (PvE): ??
abyss walker (PvP): ??
phantom ranger (PvP): ??
spellhowler (PvE): ??
phantom summoner (PvE): ??
warcryer (PvE): you are a perfect balance between a melee and buffer. and your buffs target the whole party at once instead of having to buff each person individually, which is great for larger parties.
DESTROYER
Soloability: moderate
Damage (fullbuffed): moderate
Damage (selfbuffed): moderate
PvP Offense: moderate
PvP Defense: high
PvE Offense: high
PvE Defense: high
Primary Role: offensive assist
Secondary Role(s): herder
destroyer (PvE): smash stuff good. this is a recommened class for new players. its simple to use, fairly customizable at later levels, and has more hp than three elves put together. the trademark of this class is its low-hp, active skills.
destroyer (PvP): timing is everything. if you time it right and get frenzy up just before you get to the enemy, you become a one-man gank party. time it wrong, and you become the bait. as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def will often be what does you in.
Okies, as a Destroyer I have to disagree with some points. Damage fullbuffed(not including Rage, Frenzy, Zealot) just moderate like Warlord, Gladi, DA, SwS, BD, WC and OL? When you list summoners, daggers and archers as high to very high.
Only melee classes on par with Destroyer in dps are daggers(TH mainly), Tyrants and Gladiators. You cant even start to compare them with support classes or tank classes.
Imho, Destroyer, Tyrant and Gladiator all belong to high category in fullbuffed damage.
Then, pvp offense moderate? When you can trigger Frenzy and Zealot whenever you want? You dont need a mob to beat you down. You dont need another player to beat you down. If anything, it is moderate with very high spike dmg since the trump card skills aint used all the time.
Your description of the class is somewhat accurate, altho I wouldnt suggest it to new players as Destroyer takes time before it really starts to shine and if you want to max out the potential of the class you need to learn to do more than just push F1 for the main nuke/normal archer shot.
Lastly, if you mean with Primary and secondary roles PVE, then I'd say:
Primary Role: Damage Dealer
Secondary Role(s): Tank(No problem tanking with VR), offensive assist.
As a setup, I'm talking about Tallum Heavy, Infernal Master Focus(can be replaced with high OE Great Sword Focus or with the new top A 2hander with Focus, for max dps) with +4 STR, +4DEX(optional) and -8CON.
i took an average of the damage that a destroyer does, without a speciffic tattoo setup, both with and without frenzy. the average player, new to the game, is not assumed to have prefect buffs or equipment, or have frenzy on 100% of the time, or even to survive while trying to use it. if i said destroyer damage in PvP was more than moderate, newbs would complaining to me becasue they dont know enough about their class. but i could just as easily state PvE damage as low, since there is a conceivable playstyle in which a player may spam pots like a dwarf and not use frenzy unless they really needed to. i cannot be sure HOW a player will play the game, without knowing the player; im relying on averages and generalizations to get my answers or else i would have no clear answers at all. but i will change the secondary roles to include defensive assist, damage dealer, and tank. and ill change glad tyrant and destroyer fullbuffed damage to high (not because i agree with it completely but becasue i dont see why not).
altho I wouldnt suggest it to new players as Destroyer takes time before it really starts to shine and if you want to max out the potential of the class you need to learn to do more than just push F1 for the main nuke/normal archer shot.
odd. thats exactly the reason i would reccomend it to a new player. because low hp skills and using the right skills at the right time make PvE actually exciting (for me at least).
also, i will add more to the class description when i get all the other classes finished and have a bit more time. im thinking about redoing this list after the interlude changes to see how they effected classes overall. ty for input.
Well, it sure does make PVE exciting, if they actually realise to use them. But if they roll with a healer that keeps them at mint condition all the time, they wont even start to think about the skills and will use them only as emergency skills when things go wrong. Also, as it takes some time for the Destro to really start looking good, after 50's it starts to pick momentum, but imho it will be what it should be only at the highest lvls so new players might get frustrated. "Why my lvl 30 Raider isnt as good as that nuker T_T" and stop playing or switch classes. Thats my reasoning for not suggesting it to new players ^^ Seen like a billion new Destros pop up on Teon since the start of C5 and hate to say it, most of them never went past 52.
Anyway, atleast this topic is more accurate than what NC writes in the character descriptions ^^ Keep on going.
I would change the pvp defense values for all tanks, SK, Paladin, TK, Dark Avenger, to be medium. Reason being is m.def does not scale up as p.def does and tanks get owned by any nuker within a few shots just like anyone else. However, they do have the pdef to take a few hits from any melee/archer class, so they should get at least a medium.
i understand exactly what you are saying here. i originally had them at high (not very high) becasue i was considering in cp pots, shield blocks, passive m def increases and heavy armor. but im going to change them back to high because of the m def weakness. even though they get passive m def skills there isnt a difference really between having them or not. a high hp warrior can carry more cp pots, have almost the same m def (due to armor bonuses that tanks cant get), thus, harder to kill than a tank, by a nuker. but warriors go down more easily to archers, so warriors are not "very high" in pvp defense either. also i realise that the game if broken in that damage > defense of any type. so on top of that change im going to subtract 1 level from all pvp defense scores so that new players dont mistakingly think that there is any class in this game that can actually take 4 hits from an archer without dying. ty for input.
PS: typo...forgot to add the solobility and fullbuffed damage of SK or it somehow got lost.
ideally, when i get this guide finished it will serve to answer your questions without needing to be umm, asked. hopefully it will also serve as a go-between for the NC dev team and the NA players to make sure that we're both playing the same game. i realize i need to add a lot more detail to some classes, since devianne is down again ill see what i can do about working on this some more, especially detailing the dagger classes. but pwn. you can help me here, read the guide and tell me in general what it is lacking, as a new player, what are u looking for that will tell you what class best suits you?
but pwn. you can help me here, read the guide and tell me in general what it is lacking, as a new player, what are u looking for that will tell you what class best suits you?
well....im not exactly new to Lineage 2 i have been playin for a long time just havent really played dagger classes that much and generally i like goin red on people fast i was makin a tyrant but i heard with tyrants(and my expierance playin them)your only REALLY good when you get down in bison+zealot range and id rather be good at 100 percent health then have to wait til bison+zealot range
but pwn. you can help me here, read the guide and tell me in general what it is lacking, as a new player, what are u looking for that will tell you what class best suits you?
well....im not exactly new to Lineage 2 i have been playin for a long time just havent really played dagger classes that much and generally i like goin red on people fast i was makin a tyrant but i heard with tyrants(and my expierance playin them)your only REALLY good when you get down in bison+zealot range and id rather be good at 100 percent health then have to wait til bison+zealot range
this is EXACTLY why we should NOT class a class as good or bad based on one skill in end game.
because all the way up to that point the class "lacks" what the guide puts forward.
if you've been playing for a long time then whats up with the posts you made recently about boo-hoo i dont have enough money for D grade and dont know enough about the game to make money?
i see your point. im making note of it. but something, anything, is better than the class descriptions we currently have, and characters spend a lot of time xping in A grade. and by the time they hit S grade they probably know enough about the game to make their own educated decisions. i am NOT going to do a different guide for C and B grade characters, that would just be an uneccessary pain in my soulshot. not unlike pwn.
reorganized the data because i think the length of the post was scaring some people from actually reading it. im only going to do one more final draft i think, then ill wait a while into C6 and break this back out to see whats changed. this guide does not take into account stupidly overpowered boss jewelry. changed all of the PvP defense scores. changed PvE offense of several classes.
SOLOABILITY
very high: necro, warlock, ES, SH, PS
high: HE, sorc, bishop, SR, SpS, EE, PR
moderate: glad, paly, DA, prophet, TK, SK, destro, tyrant, WC, OL, WS
low: TH, DA, SwS, PW, BD, AW, SE, BH, WS
very low: warlord
damage(fullbuffed)
very high: HE, SR, PR
high: glad, TH, sorc, necro, warlock, PW, SpS, ES, AW, SH, PS, destro, tyrant, WC, OL
moderate: warlord, DA, DA, SwS, SK, BD
low: paly, bishop, prophet, TK, EE, SE, BH, WS, WS
very low: -----
damage(selfbuffed)
very high: -----
high: necro, warlock, prophet, ES, PS, WC, OL
moderate: glad, DA, TH, HE, sorc, SwS, PW, SR, SpS, SK, BD, AW, PR, SH, destro, tyrant
low: warlord, paly, DA, bishop, TK, EE, SE, WS
very low: BH, WS
PvP offense
very high: HE, necro, SR, PR
high: TH, sorc, warlock, PW, SpS, ES, AW, SH, PS
moderate: glad, DA, EE, SK, BD, SE, destro, tyrant, WC, OL
low: paly, DA, bishop, TK, SwS, WS
very low: warlord, prophet, BH, WS
PvP defense
very high: -----
high: -----
moderate: warlord, glad, paly, DA, DA, HE, necro, warlock, prophet, TK, SwS, ES, SK, PS, destro, tyrant, WC, OL
low: sorc, SR, SpS, BD, PR, SH, BH, WS, WS
very low: TH, bishop, PW, EE, AW, SE
PvE offense
very high: HE, sorc, necro, SR, SpS, PR, SH
high: TH, warlock, bishop, PW, ES, EE, BD, AW, PS, derstro, tyrant
moderate: warlord, gladiator, paly, DA, SwS, WC, WS
low: DA, prophet, TK, SK, SE, OL, BH, WS
very low: -----
PvE defense
very high: paly, DA, DA, TK, SK
high: warlord, gladiator, necro, warlock, prophet, SwS, ES, PS, destroyer, tyrant, WC, OL
moderate: HE, SR, BD, PR, BH, WS, WS
low: TH, sorc, bishop, PW, SpS, EE, AW, SH, SE
very low: -----
you can help me here, read the guide and tell me in general what it is lacking, as a new player, what are u looking for that will tell you what class best suits you?
I'll take a crack at it since I've been playing since my reg date and can tell you what I would've liked to know (before I opened the second account for more slots :p).
I think more of an overview would fit best. While I'm sure an eternity is spent at the A grade level, that doesn't help me decide who/what I want to play. If I had come into L2 intending to be a "healer", the guide wouldn't have given me any of the standard caveats that can be found in any of the "What class should I play" threads in the Questions forum. While I'm sure the vets could level an oracle solo to the second class change in record time, that doesn't help a new player (who is most likely to be asking the question in the first place).
I love the format and found it helpful. But some of the bits of wisdom would be exponentially more useful to me. Like, "This class doesn't really come into its own until 52/56" or "The basic utility and playstyle of this class makes it extremely popular as a boxed alt" or something like that. "Friends don't let friends play a dwarf as a main" is another one I've seen. That makes it easy to update when Jesus comes and personally gives dwarves a boost (as someone told me ingame heh). Maybe add some class equivalents for those who have only played a particular fantasy MMO (i.e. Bladedancer/Swordsinger = Bard, Dark Avenger/Shillien Knight (?) = Shadowknight/Reaver, etc).
But I think giving an idea of how each class plays over the life of the character would be better than "at 70, this is how the classes are...". That's a long row to *** to find out a class isn't what you thought it would be.
is it really to late to re roll though cuz i dont know ive been playin tyrants for a while now and im kinda gettin tired of playin em i might re roll like a phantom ranger or a abyss walker or somethin
Soloability:
Bishops don't solo better than tanks and orcs. Warcriers solo fine (although it's slow and a pain in the butt). Given herbs, I'd say swap both healers (EE/Bishop) down a grade, since their main advantage has been removed (no downtime).
Damage: Buffed
Why are destroyers not in the top tier?
Damage (self-buffed):
DA, WS and BH all outdamage a TK.
PvP Offense:
Destroyers don't have smaller PvP offense than summoners unless something's being funny. Paladin and DA should not be in the same category as TKs here.
PvE Offense:
DA is not a bottom tier character here.
Defense: Too complex to make a listing for without explaining how you're counting.
for the solo of bishops and EE i was assuming undead mobs, you're right otherwise it would be lower. maybe i should specify undeads such as "solobility: moderate (against undead)". but then...every class has mobs that are weak to their attacks, you are not meant to solo anything other than stuff that is weak to you, unless you are looking for a certain drop or doing a quest. destroyers are not assumed to have fenzy on all the time. TK has storm cubic, yes i know no one ever uses it and it fires pretty rarely. shield stun is not an offensive skill and note that DA is listed twice, once with summon and once without. for defense...for the PvP i considered the use of cp pots, for PvE it wasnt considered.
edit:
PvP defense
high: necro, warlock, ES, PS, HE, BH, WS, WS
moderate: classes which can kite other classes, classes which have high m def, classes which have high p def, classes which have high evasion, classes that can heal. = all other classes not already listed.
but then that doesnt take into account "erase", in which case only HE, BH, and WS have high PvP defense.
ill add another section to each class besides PvP and PvE descriptions. if there is a playstle change (like nuking pre 40s before you chose summoner) and notable skills that get you into parties (like song of hunter).
tyrant (PvP): as a high hp, heavy armor class you can take quite a few hits before you go down. your low m def and lack of a shield will often be what does you in.
tyrants dont wear heavy armor they wear light armor
actually i disagree, i think they happen to work very well in heavy armor due to armor bonuses and sub-par evasion. but maybe thats just me. anyways it was a typo.
okay, so i had this really brilliant idea that id take screenies of the ingame descriptions of the 40+ classes becasue they HAVE to be somewhat accurate, right? by virtue of their in-game-ness? instead, this is the sort of stuff i found: "Sword Singers use their skill of dance and supplementary magic to assist their parties during siege or clan war. Weak defensively, their 'Sword Singing' restores party members hp, increases evasion and speed of movement." some things i found were sort of eye-opening, [TK and SK] "are capable of strengthening equipment") while others were just complicatingly stupid, "A Necromancer is an advanced form of Wizard. The Necromancer first weakens his oponent with Black Magic and then summons a zombie to finish him off. Uses poisons effectively on monsters." the screenies that i have, although entertaining, cannot be posted because they contain misleading or innacurate information, or none at all. in short, the idea was a flop. to that end, im going to take some liberties and just mercilessly quote people from the official boards, to come up with some sort of mixed desription of the classes.
It does not need to be anything big, just a list of the classes and what they think about each, something like "this is class x, compared to the similar classes y and z it is strong in this and that area, so we think that in a party it should have the job of this-and-that. We think it is a bit lacking in area a and b, so we will probably fix that in the future".
if you are reading this guide it means that you are thinking about making a new toon, but dont know which class you will like, maybe you're trying to pick a subclass, maybe you just started. hopefully this overview of the classes will help by making the decision much more painful than it really needs to be. first ill start with a general overview of the rock-paper-scisors system that NC implemented (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9198/rpswarrioria4.jpg) (WARNING! i used photoshop to edit that picture because NC originally had the arrows going the wrong way on the warrior/rogue/knight sub-RPS). without saying anything too negative about the RPS, ill move on to describe basic groups of classes. but! if you are looking for an uber, completely unbalanced class that will pwnzor EVERYONE in chronicle 5, STOP READING!! becasue ill just tell you!! get three accounts. a necromancer and a hawkeye, and a prophet to help them level quickly. if you want to play a class that you enjoy, in playstyle and concept, please read on.
Tanks: these classes are made to take damage, not deal it. they are not neccesary for parties, but they are neccessary for end-game raids. biggest problem is that the tank group risks the most at a raid, and gets like +.01% xp at a raid because xp distribution is based on damage dealt.
Warriors: short range consistent damage, your basic fighter classes, with a bit more damage than tanks, and for most parties they can tank just as well, due to high health.
Archers: long range irregular damage, based on criticals. as ranged classes in L2, they dominate PvP.
Daggers: short range irregular damage based on skills. they do about the same damage as non-dwarf warriors but generally have low health.
Healers/Buffers: these classes attempt to keep everyone else in the party alive. but as on C5, healing in PvE really isnt neccessary if you have the vampiric rage buff, unless you're doing aoe or raids. and buffing, while it is absolutely neccessary in L2, is rather boring.
Nukers: long range consistent damage based on spells. as ranged classes in L2, they dominate PvP.
Summoners: these are the ideal soloing classes, they summon expendable pets that do their fighting for them.
debuffers: where are the debuffers of L2? of course this class role isnt really missing. overlord (a buffer), and necromancer (a summoner) are the primary buffers of L2, but other debuffs are fairly sell spread out over all classes. and necromancer, while they are porbably the "best" debuffer, are also on par with nukers at nuking, and they get summons as well.
Shadow
Consumes 30% experience
Consumes several D Crystals
passive VR 15%
Normal solo pet for any PS, very durable and relatively cheap.
Silhouette
Consumes 90% Experience
Consumes 1 D Crystal
life drain nuke (slow, but 900 range, i think it's 60% return)
Used for PvP, but generally not used much at all. Used for travelling when you don't want to pay for a full servitor and don't expect much experience. Prefered in PVP because it's expendable and all pets go down quickly. Can also be used for farming adena.
Soulless
Consumes 10% Experiences
Consumes several C Crystals
Drains masters mp- roughly halves mp regen
10% higher patk than shadow and silhouette takes about 80% as many soulshots as shadow but about 75% as much HP
Toxic Smoke- AOE poison, reasonably strong but just like with other poisons is too slow to be effective usually
Parasite Burst- Corpse explosion, not too strong but has no upper limit on how many mobs it can affect so it's good for that.
The mp drain makes it very hard to solo with. Soloing must be done where herbs drop a lot. Usually used in groups.
Nightshade
Consumes 5% experience
Consumes several C Grade crystals
Curse of Shade-Has single target and PBAOE hate skill that simultaneously reduces matk/patk of targets.
SAcrifice of Shade- servitor heals target using it's own hp, very strong heal, slow but with buffs is an excellent pet. Very low patk makes it a party pet. Also works well as a secondary healer in PVP.
Phantom Cubic
Randomly lowers patk, pdef, or atk spd by 23%. DEcent landrate and very good fire rate. Can be summoned en masse
Spark Cubic
Stuns target, excellent landrate, decent fire rate.
:::Warlock Summons:::
Kat the Cat
Consumes 30% experience
Consumes several D Crystals
Recharges master
Used as MP battery or by impoverished people only
Mew the Cat
Consumes 90% Experience
Consumes 1 D Crystal
Nukes (slow, but 900 range)
Used for PvP by some, but generally not used much at all. Used for travelling when you don't want to pay for a full servitor and don't expect much experience.
Kai the Cat
Consumes 10% Experiences
Consumes several C Crystals
Buffs himself reflect damage
The standard PvE summon for soloing. Has slightly higher PAtk than the others.
Queen of Cats
Consumes 5% experience
Consumes several C Grade crystals
Buffs groups for critical chance/damage or accuracy and patk
Standard PvE and PvP summon for a warlock these days.
Storm Cubic
Uses a weak wind-based nuke, can be summoned en masse
Binding Cubic
Paralyses. Can only be summoned one at a time.
:::Elemental Summoners Summons:::
Unicorn Boxer - As Kat
Unicorn Mirage - As Mew
Unicorn Merrow
Consumes 10% Experiences
Consumes several C Crystals
Uses AoE nuke
Preferred for melee soloing or for AoEing half HP mobs (works well until low 7x at least not sure after that).
Unicorn Seraphim
Consumes 5% experience
Consumes several C Grade crystals
Buffs groups for MP regeneration or spell reset speed. Standard PvE and PvP summon for an ES these days. Cures silence, root and stun.
you can find pictures of the summons here http://www.l2pets.com/
Thanks to Pysics4Ever and MailineII for their help with this.
i could be a bit off base here, but i will go out on a limb and say the Uber Pwnzor classes of interlude will be the physical nuke type classes. specifically tyrant and Gladiator.
let me state the reasons for this:
in interlude soulshot damage by skills have been increased for most physical skills of both the aforementioned classes. this means that the ranged blasters and aoe blasts have been boosted by soulshot use.
having said that, Mortal Strike and sandbomb and stealth can be enchanted. i suspect high level daggers will all be a far more lethal opponent with enchanted Mortal strike.
to counter this boost, the charge requirement for ranged blasts has been increased by 1. this is hardly a balance. it only make so that high level glads/tyrants can't do a spam of 7 TSS/SB. but it does mean that those 1500 dmg existing ranged blasts will hurt more than before. especially when overcharged.
some notes and testers say the base power of some of the glad/tyrant/warlord skills has been increased, but i can only confirm by the official interlude PTS notes that the Warlord skills got boosted.
given the current amount of gladiators on every server (high) i can only conclude that those who did roll one will not be dissappointed in interlude.
i myself am rolling a tyrant. special for the occasion.
treasure hunter (PvE): best overall stats of the dagger classes, high CON and STR, makes up for low DEX with the sprint skill.
treasure hunter (PvP): as with all daggers, PvP is mostly luck that your skills land.
prophet (PvE): melee mobs in heavy armor, switch to robes to heal up, and repeat. sitting is really only slightly more boring.
prophet (PvP): most likely you will be out of mana even before pvp begins.
plainswalker (PvE): high DEX and CON. a defensive damage dealer if there ever was one. their entangle debuff, combined with elven sprinting, allows them to outrun jsut about any nasty situation.
plainswalker (PvP): as with all daggers, PvP is mostly luck that your skills land. instead of killing their enemies outright they have been known to use fake death to encourage mobs to help them take their prey down.
silver ranger (PvP): this class is the perfect short-range killer. high run speed meets high range for an uber combination of i-can-hit-you-but-you-cant-hit-me, naa-naa! i might suggest u actually make a macro to say "naa-naa", as it will save the time of retyping it in the heat of kiting.
elemental summoner (PvE): see the desriptions of summons, above.
elven elder (PvP): ?? (yes, this is the second final draft. "??" is the most accurate answer for this one)
abyss walker (PvE): high STR and DEX. this dagger has a handful of debuff and damage-over-time spells at its disposal to weaken targets before closing with them.
abyss walker (PvP): as with all daggers, PvP is mostly luck that your skills land.
phantom ranger (PvP): cant shoot as fast as the silver ranger but does considerably more damage per hit, with the same ability to kite targets. and if you get rooted you can always pull out a dagger and bleed them (not that it will be effective).
phantom summoner (PvE): see the desriptions of summons, above.
warcryer (PvP): spam drain until you run out of mana then bsoe.
overlord (PvE): melee mobs in heavy armor, switch to robes to heal up, and repeat. sitting is really only slightly more boring.
same-race duos (five stars is uber, one star isnt worth listing):
hawleye+prophet. may be boring for the prophet at later levels. prophet will be useless in PvP, but wont die too much in PvP because they get a BSOE skill. *****
treasure hunter+prophet. works fine until late 60s, not as well as those mentioned above, but at least the prophet isnt so bored. ****
necromancer+prophet. may be boring for the prophet at later levels. prophet will be useless in PvP, but wont die too much in PvP because they get a BSOE skill. *****
gladiator+dark avenger/paladin. ive seen couples pull this off until late 60s, a buffer as a third member becomes more and more neccessary. requires both people working together to succeed in PvP against a single archer. ***
gladiator+bishop. works until late a grade, as with the previous, it works a lot better with NPC buffs. ***
paladin+bishop. kill undeads for decent xp, but lose PvP constantly. you might do this more for the concept than the practicallity. **
spell howler+shillien elder. voted best looking duo 5 chronicles in a row. good PvP, PvE may be boring for shillien elder. *****
spellhowler+blade dancer. almost as good PvE and PvP as the previous, but no one is bored. ****
phantom ranger+shillien elder. pretty much the same as phantom ranger+prophet but slightly gimped becasue of the lack of zerk and the cost of swift attack pots. ****
abyss walker+shillien elder. good in PvE until late 60s, empower and VR really come together to compliment the abyss walker. PvP will be hit or miss, literally. ****
shillien knight+bladebancer. good in PvE all the way up to the level cap. PvE and PvP decent and no one gets bored. ****
abyss walker+bladedancer. awesome crit damage and dual hp drain. works great at low levels but probably not so much into early 60s unless you get NPC buffs. PvP will be hit or miss, literally. ***
silver ranger+silver ranger or swordsinger. works okay (assuming both characters use bows), but really needs an extra buffer in party, past mid 60s, to make it worthwhile. decent PvE, decent PvP if you use a lot of consubables or NPC buffs. no one gets bored, though you may get seasick from kiting all the time. ***
swordsinger+elven elder. complimentary buffs, very versitle weapon/armor choices, and the ability to get out of any jam in a jiffy. this is a great combination for learning about Lineage2, and any good clan will beg you to join them (since everyone already has 3 boxed bladedancers in their clan). PvP mostly consists of running away, though you may be able to take down a single archer if you work together. ***
tyrant or destroyer + tyrant or destroyer. alternate zealot back and forth. "dangerous" combination in every sense of the word. active and fun PvE, and decent PvP, if you are careful. NPC buffs help. ****
destroyer or tyrant + warcryer. might need to use a few pots here and there but xp will be awesome. PvP decent. ****
bounty hunter+warsmith. voted cutest combination 5 chronicles in a row. there is a certain gratification from harvesting and crafting your own gear, but you will lose all PvPs until you subclass, and quite possibly catch omgdwarvessuck syndtrome **
duos of different races (note that it may be hard if you start playing at the same time because 1-20 when you are learning about the game you are best off doing quests in your starter village, and your partner can help but you may run out of newbie tokens or just end up wasting otherwise useful time. ideally, if you subclass about the same time, something from this list might work better.)
necromancer or spellsinger or sorcerer+shillien elder. empower does wonders for nukers, and recharge helps. lots of damage and the possible use of low-hp uberdamage. *****
warcryer+blade dancer. lots of buffs that complement each other nicely. really only shines after VR stacks at level 74+. ****
phantom ranger + prophet. may be boring for the prophet at later levels. prophet will be useless in PvP, but wont die too much in PvP because they get a BSOE skill. *****
silver ranger + prophet. may be boring for the prophet at later levels. prophet will be useless in PvP, but wont die too much in PvP because they get a BSOE skill. since the silver ranger cant convert hp to mp, this isnt as effective as the hawkeye/phantom ranger variations. ****
bladedancer+swordsinger. the ultimate duet. at higher levels you can hang out at the beasst farm for free buffs. in PvP you have a slight chance, and PvE is decent but you need to be coordinated ALL the time. not a boring combination. ****
treasure hunter or abyss walker+swordsinger. awesome crit rate and just enough of an increase to hp regen to kill x2 mobs. works great at low levels but probably not so much into early 60s unless you get NPC buffs. PvP will be hit or miss, literally. ****
destroyer or bounty hunter or warsmith or warlord+shillien elder. great for aoe, almost as good without aoe, using frenzy. PvP decent but boring PvE for shillien elder. ****
bihop+elven elder. awesome undead killer combination. PvE good but only agaisnt undead, as for PvP...umm, really i have no idea. ***
warlock or elemental summoner or phantom summoner+warcryer. at really high levels, can summon the other person to you. decent damage in PvE and lots of things to do in PvP assuming the summon doesnt get one-shotted by erase. ****
warlord or bounty hunter or warsmith+warcrier. might need to use a few pots here and there but aoe xp will be awesome. PvP lacking. ****
elven elder+overlord. a very unlikely combination with a diverse yet complimentary buff set. ***
warlock or elemental summoner or phantom summoner + warlock or elemental summoner or phantom summoner. you can both solo very well or you can team up and debate whose balls (cubics) are the biggest. the biggest perk of this combo is that you can summon the other person to you, without needing to be uber level. ****
...destroyers are not assumed to have frenzy on all the time...
No, but they are assumed to have it on pretty often if they know whats good for them. And Rage should be on pretty much all the time. It aint that hard to minimize the cooldown timers for either of them.
I didn't think EEs were on par with Sorceror soloability. Is that a typo or did I miss something?
Classes with Servitor + Transfer Pain (Nec/Summoners) and Tank Classes with UD should have high PvP defense - especially now with the changes that allow certain spells to be blocked with shields.
Classes with Servitor + Transfer Pain, and those with Life Drains (like Vampiric Claw) should have high PvE defense. Summoners don't solo full cata rooms due to low PvE defense :) High PvE defense doesn't necessarily = tank class.
Classes Equivalent in EQ:
Archers = Ranger
Shadowhowler = Necromancer without a Pet and slightly stroner nukes
Sorceror = Wizard [Tunnel Vision Class, no versatility whatsoever]
Summoner = Beastlord (Melee + Servitor)
Spellsinger = Magician [with horrible Equipment, and no pet]
Elven Elder = Shaman/Druid [Melee buffs, few Caster Buffs, Weaker than Cleric heals]
Bishop = Cleric
Necromancer = Necromancer (Overpowered, of course)
Shillen Elder = Enchanter/Shaman (Caster Buffs, Weaker than Druid Heals)
Paladin = Paladin
Classes with Hate and/or UD = Warrior/Shadow Knight
Daggers = Rogue
Gladiator = Berzerker
Dwarfs = Berzerker
Prophet = Cleric+Enchanter Buffs w/ Less than Shaman Heal Ability [no real match]
Swordsinger/Bladedancer = Bard
I may have missed a couple :)
I must admit after looking at it like this you kind of get a feel for how things are to work IRT class balance/ability balance (ouch for Recharge "alteration" + Bishop "alteration" - that really hurt things considering the other two classes are more diverse buffers with less healing ability - much like Druids and Shaman vice Clerics in EQ).
One strange thing is the Recharge Skill - usually a Necromancer ability in most other MMOs. Sleep was nerfed and Trance given to the respective clasess (seems respectable decision). Sorceror is a tunnel vision class with no versatility (like EQ Wizards), and Necro/SH can still own pretty much any class in PvP/Arena (spell land rates similar to EQ Necros' insane resist adjustments on spells).
Its hard for 1 person to know exactly what each class does strength/weakness etc.
After 3 yrs ive played like 10-12 classes mainly, but I know alot of the diff classes. But i wouldnt know say... summoners...dwarfs..umm... alot of the classes dont show their true power till 70+........ anyway my point is its hard for someone to write a guide unless u have played all 36 classes or w/e
id STILL like to try to write a guide of all the classes though but alot more detailed :P
Example:
Class: Spellhowler
Rating (1-10) 10 Being the highest.
Exp Gain Rating: (9)
Class Offensive Rating: (10)
Class Defensive Rating: (5)
Description of character: Spellhowler is one of the top nuker classes, great at raid bosses, great at exping. Has the ability to pvp very well, but not like a Spellsinger. Does not require alot of buffs to attain high M attack.
I didn't think EEs were on par with Sorceror soloability. Is that a typo or did I miss something?
its not a typo. i squished everyone into 5 brackets of speed, EE (against undead) and sorcerer have similar, at least comparable leveling speed. the xp speed of both of these classes is a order of magnitude higher than that of non-aoe melee...and i already explained my reasoning for not giving anyone in L2 a very good score on their defense, its a comment i was making, about how offense >>>>>> defense. although ive never played EQ, thanks for the class comparisions, it may help some new players get a bit more of an idea. looking back, i spent too much effort writing long detailed posts, thinking that someone might actually read them.
...in interlude, while wearing a carebear hat, you can challenge another player (also wearing a carebear hat) to an instanced fight, on an instanced version of barney island, and no matter who loses (assuming the result isnt a tie) nothing is lost or gained, learned or decided. WoW, who woulda thought...
id STILL like to try to write a guide of all the classes though but alot more detailed :P
be my guest...this post was only concerned with chonicle 5 lack of balance, the unbalance in thronicle 1 remains to be seen. i certainly wont be finishing my list of links for every class. in my absence people may just adapt and learn to use the search button. maybe.
I didn't think EEs were on par with Sorceror soloability. Is that a typo or did I miss something?
its not a typo. i squished everyone into 5 brackets of speed, EE (against undead) and sorcerer have similar, at least comparable leveling speed. the xp speed of both of these classes is a order of magnitude higher than that of non-aoe melee...and i already explained my reasoning for not giving anyone in L2 a very good score on their defense, its a comment i was making, about how offense >>>>>> defense. although ive never played EQ, thanks for the class comparisions, it may help some new players get a bit more of an idea. looking back, i spent too much effort writing long detailed posts, thinking that someone might actually read them.
...in interlude, while wearing a carebear hat, you can challenge another player (also wearing a carebear hat) to an instanced fight, on an instanced version of barney island, and no matter who loses (assuming the result isnt a tie) nothing is lost or gained, learned or decided. WoW, who woulda thought...
id STILL like to try to write a guide of all the classes though but alot more detailed :P
be my guest...this post was only concerned with chonicle 5 lack of balance, the unbalance in thronicle 1 remains to be seen. i certainly wont be finishing my list of links for every class. in my absence people may just adapt and learn to use the search button. maybe.
Word.
I kind of realized, alot of classes seriously change each update, finally they are getting a bit more concrete, but I guess a class guide only has a 1-2 chronicle lifespan, then [censored] is just changed too much.
Still I will try :P Got alot of free time, your c5 stuff will be helpful for the *drumroll* interlude class guide.