Hey guys. I'm interested in hearing everyone's input on something I've been struggling with.
I play a prophet and play it very well. I've never heard of any complaint to keeping people buffed and alive. No down time needed for a full party to maintain buffs 100% of the time. However, I am having (and have been for some time) a great deal of difficulty with getting parties.
I'm trying to decide if this is something specific to my clan, my ally, my server or the game. Everyone seems to either have a personal 2-box or buff pet or they require you to be level 78 with PoF. I've been trying to hit 75 for the past several months and still have 29% to go. In a week or two, it would surprise me if it will be that much less.
Is this an issue with being high level? My server? Or is this the effects of "Generation ME" where no one cares to help out the next guy?
Any (constructive) opinions and information would be greatly appreciated.
We never turn down support toons. We used to regularly run groups with 2 EE's. Can you imagine anything less useful? We have 2 boxes along usually (or in some cases, 3 boxes). We still prefer live support. I've played with many other clans on Lionna that have a similar outlook. I can't say if its your server as a whole, but certainly its not a universal problem.
In short, support classes are not supporting others...but others are supporting support classes with groups, cuz our support is not needed w/ all the buffpets/CHs/herbs etc. So find friends who are willing to let you leech some xp and you are fine. Noone needs us, we need others.
Kayosoni: I don't want to digress into WC vs. PP. That's another thread's worth of opinions. :P
Nya: I agree 100% with support classes no longer provide support, they require it. It so strange to go from Prelude/C1 days when I couldn't take the time to stock up in town for all the requests for parties to spending days, even weeks shouting "PP LFG" in ally and no one responds unless its a PvP group, then suddenly I'm useful.
Rhetorical question but how did we end up going from an asset to an expendable liability?
I'd say at the start of C3, honestly. In C1 and C2 I barely had to ask for a group when I logged on, but the minute necro/catas came out, I couldn't find groups for anything. That was also the start of the Age of SEs. VR ruled all.
Then add in CH buffs, noobie buffs, buff scrolls, brezes, BSOES, dawn/dusk priest greater potions, and then finally buff/heal HERBS and well. There you go.
Seems like you're going through what us Overlords have been going through since open beta. The only way support classes can get any parties now is with friends. A few alliances will help their support classes level up, but they are few and generally not the power-hungry castle-owning clans that pvp/siege/raid often.
Either find a few friends who don't mind bringing you along, a clan that appreciates live support classes, or stock up on SS and go hunt mobs alone.
With might/focus/DW/haste it shouldn't be too long to get your 29%, probably a few nights and you should be fine.
Most support classes who don't solo don't make it very high unless they have a damage-dealing friend who can't afford / doesn't want a second account.
I'd say at the start of C3, honestly. In C1 and C2 I barely had to ask for a group when I logged on, but the minute necro/catas came out, I couldn't find groups for anything. That was also the start of the Age of SEs. VR ruled all.
Then add in CH buffs, noobie buffs, buff scrolls, brezes, BSOES, dawn/dusk priest greater potions, and then finally buff/heal HERBS and well. There you go.
True. On my SE (Shillien Saint) main, I am lucky if I make 2% a week at 77 (that's like one lucky evening where I manage to be invited to some party to leech). Still 39% to go to 78 :(
Nobody needs my SE anymore, the only thing I get are clan pity groups where I run along and hand out VR (while a Hierophant buffs the rest and a Cardinal heals), so most of the time I play my sub (which also gets no groups, but that's another story). All the nukers I used to duo with are playing their subs - which interestingly are mostly melee toons like daggers, BD, SwS and very easily get groups in Pagans or IT or other places like that.
Does nobody get owned by mages in PvP anymore that people don't care to have live prophets around? I find it unlikely that a box would be able to rebuff resists in PvP.
Does nobody get owned by mages in PvP anymore that people don't care to have live prophets around? I find it unlikely that a box would be able to rebuff resists in PvP.
lets be realistic either its surrender which takes the resist off nuke nuke dead. or it doesn't take it off and they die.
pvp happens so fast w/full buffed nukers and archers that u wouldn't know til it was over.
Does nobody get owned by mages in PvP anymore that people don't care to have live prophets around? I find it unlikely that a box would be able to rebuff resists in PvP.
As I mentioned above, I can get PvP groups all day long, its XP groups that are the problem. People are all too happy to invite me when it helps them out but when it is I that needs the help, no one is to be found.
I think it comes from a big part of the players, like Ellie Nya and others said in their post.
As an overlord in C1, I guess I got party thanks to friends, and/or because I usually started the partys. My shaman days (at level 35 I could heal/buf a whole party and kill 2 Cruma rooms without shots, just had to ask fighters to tank in turn) served me well up to lvl 50ish for the friendlist.
A bit over a year ago, in an alliance where I rarely found a party, I decided to go back to my warlord, and remade my clan according to my vision of the game.
I hardly ever look for optimised xp partys (I can duo with an EE, or a paladin), I know the problem of some class, and still I don't find many support class to party with, maybe because there are less (killed by dualboxes, herbs etc.) hence those who stayed might have their little friendlist to take care of, since they're not confident about finding a random party.
It's a vicious circle.
I'd say at the start of C3, honestly. In C1 and C2 I barely had to ask for a group when I logged on, but the minute necro/catas came out, I couldn't find groups for anything. That was also the start of the Age of SEs. VR ruled all.
Then add in CH buffs, noobie buffs, buff scrolls, brezes, BSOES, dawn/dusk priest greater potions, and then finally buff/heal HERBS and well. There you go.
QFT, wow. Get rid of all the stuff that prevents your class from being useful, and watch the return of demand, specifically I think the herbs and greater potions. My clan keeps our support classes busy, because it's nice not to need a buff pet, and cheaper than spending greater pots, but, when they aren't on, doesn't stop us from holding a room in the catas cuz the greater pots, self buffs allow us to do that just fine.
IMHO... they've just taken too much of what you offer and made it too available. (though if you aren't getting partied by your clan... there's issues there too)
I think in every new chronicle patch note, there is a line about "making solo gameplay easier".
So now guess what? Everyone solo.
At the same time, they "force" healers to party (or to quit, but I doubt that's what NCsoft intended :p), by actions like sleep nerf or removal of herb drops in undead-only places.
Like I said, I'm 77 with a subclass. I ONLY get levels because of my clan. I personally, don't have leveling issues.
Maybe it's some peoples idea of a fun time to be dependant on other players who can just as easily use herbs and pots and scrolls to exp instead of using you, but not everyone thinks that way.
However, I am having (and have been for some time) a great deal of difficulty with getting parties.
Is this an issue with being high level? My server? Or is this the effects of "Generation ME" where no one cares to help out the next guy?
I feel your pain, Aldridge.
There are many reasons that created this situation.
First, being powerhouse of server, having many wars, alliance in general prefers close alliance parties.
That is, you don't go out and shout for random parties - it doesn't work for the most part. Many will not get you in party just because they hate your alliance. Many will be too afraid of getting involved in some mess around our wars.
Second, alliance online is rather low these days. It happens because some expers are tired of war, some pvpers are rather eager to go kill some enemies instead of getting yet another boring level. It happens because we have all time zones involved - nearly every time zone has a portion of players, and they won't stay online 24/7.
Third, people want uber xp. It's "Generation ME" effect you mentioned. Noone wants to level low-level character if they have better alternative, aside from friends, of cause. Of cause, IT party will prefer CoV/PoF buffer instead of non-PoF prophet...
Fourth, people looking for groups mostly hide and wait for miracle group that will accept them. Unfrotunately it doesn't happen all the time. And they... log off. So next minute group being (re)formed won't find necessary class... It's like snowball effect. Partially it's related to Vent addiction. But being in ally vent you won't cross with people sitting in BH Vent or Impervm TeamSpeak, for example.
Fivth, alliance size limits hit hard on general communication effectiveness. Salvation and Revelation are two different alliances we have to keep separate just because clans can't fit in one alliance...
Recently I've started to gather parties again. Man, it's a pain. Alliance chant doesn't help unless I have 3/4 of the party being set up. I have to find 2-3 friends ready to join before I can actually start a party. And only then non-close friends or foreigners start to join.
I'd like to suggest you to have patience and desire to find a party. It takes an hour or even two to form a party in random time.
Find some way to kill time while you are looking for party. Make some craft, check market, join pvp party, make some drama in ally chat, shout "prophet LF xp group" in ally chat and wait for replies or invites, or shouts "GLF buffer" (many people only look for replies to their own shouts, missing other shouts completely). As a resort option, find some friendly people in other clans (in all alliance-related clans) and don't bother to ask them in pms if someone in their clan needs a live prophet.
Creativity in self-enternaining makes wonders ^^ If you only do one thing at a time, it's getting boring, if you make two-three, you are busy all he time.
P.S. I'd gladly invite you to groups unless we already have live buffer.
Thanks everyone for their words of advice. I think I was secretly hoping to hear, "It's your ally! So many other clans don't operate that way!" but in reality I knew my suspicions were correct.
It really boils down to two things: "Generation ME" mentality and ease of access to buffs. It's supply and demand. Make a greater supply of the instant pots, etc., decrease the demand for the original source of those buffs.
IMO, this is a significant problem that needs to be addressed in the updates to come from NC Soft. The game was created on the principle of very specialized classes to enforce the need to rely on one another to succeed. That reliance has been steadily removed since C3 and with it, the usefulness of the classes designed to provide that support for your fellow players. The decision that NC Soft should present to themselves now is: do we fix the loss of reliance or do we make support classes self-sustainable?
Frankly, the latter is the materialization of WoW. I can't think of a single player that has been around since C3 that has said, "Wow, this game is so much better since C3." Instead i am always presented with a nostalgic remorse with players yearning for the parties of old.
at least for me, i find that VR > regeneration by a huge margin. this is one of the biggest problems with the game, and is why i cant duo with a prohpet effectively, while i can trio with a prophet and BD amazingly well, and i can duo with a BD effectively (due to haste2 in a pot).
If any of you guys have a support class on Gustin I’d be more than happy to party with you. At present I regularly party with a lvl 55 and 56 bishop I’m lvl 72.
Honestly guys my clan and I prefer live heals/buffers any day of the week over boxed toons. We have wicked aoe cata parties that require a Bish or EE a Proph or WC and a SE. so again if your on Gustin PM me (Faithkil) and we’ll party.
Thanks everyone for their words of advice. I think I was secretly hoping to hear, "It's your ally! So many other clans don't operate that way!" but in reality I knew my suspicions were correct.
It really boils down to two things: "Generation ME" mentality and ease of access to buffs. It's supply and demand. Make a greater supply of the instant pots, etc., decrease the demand for the original source of those buffs.
IMO, this is a significant problem that needs to be addressed in the updates to come from NC Soft. The game was created on the principle of very specialized classes to enforce the need to rely on one another to succeed. That reliance has been steadily removed since C3 and with it, the usefulness of the classes designed to provide that support for your fellow players. The decision that NC Soft should present to themselves now is: do we fix the loss of reliance or do we make support classes self-sustainable?
Frankly, the latter is the materialization of WoW. I can't think of a single player that has been around since C3 that has said, "Wow, this game is so much better since C3." Instead i am always presented with a nostalgic remorse with players yearning for the parties of old.
I have prophet, ee, and se buffpet. If I'm using them to solo, I generally won't ask for support classes (reasonably, the best xp is NOT duoing a WS, and most people won't bother to port for it.)
However, if I'm partying, I'd REALLY rather have live support. Let's face it, if I'm pulling mobs for AOE, I really don't want to be in charge of healing the entire party, right? If you add in the length of time it takes for me to buff the party (I can't pull and buff) the downtime sucks.
The problem is, I don't dare use the party finder to get another person in my group. (Cuz.. yea.. ++war) My friendlist is sadly populated by 2 types of people: Those that no longer play.. and those that added me to their friendlist so they could ask me to smashy/craft.
If you drop me a pm, I'll add you to my friendlist - and if you don't mind a multiple dwarf aoe party, you're more than welcome to join us. (As long as we don't go to war any time soon.)
There's also the option of doing like me and a few friends have been doing lately: Support character parties!
Overlord + SE + Bishop + EE. If we stumble upon someone else in the zone, we'll invite them, but we can survive a room of dark red monsters without much trouble.
Thankfully we all have spare melee weapons and aren't afraid to use SS :)
LOL.. Yeah, I was disgusted the other night when we could not find a single legitimate DD to join our Pagan party. We ended up rolling with a WC, PP, SE, SwS and BD and did very well surprisingly. Rather sad when a 300 person ally doesn't have a single DD available.
SWE: Thank you, I'd be more than happy to take you up on the offer. :)
I_Faithkil: Unfortunately, my home is on Himdemith, but I appreciate the offer! :)
When you have a SwS and a BD in the same party they are both very respectful DD’s, but sadly by them self they are less than one DD. And with the WC, PP and SE I must say that is an awesome party.
Honestly I'm a 45 Necro (few weeks old) and I would KILL for a tag along SE or EE or anything with recharge...
As a necro, you could try a Bishop too. HP -> MP + Heal. It works for SH too. But people seem afraid to try that.
Anyway I know very well how good are EE and SE for a nuker... when I see the xp rate of a SpS at 70+ from my clan when in duo. And I tell you, the funny mixed groups can't compete with that. At least large odd groups are fun and friendly, not like super optimized duos that burn your head and make you forget friends.
your ally/clan should let you in into any party that uses a boxed buffer if you ask me. if not, you should look for a better clan/ally.
on bartz pagan groups ALWAYS look for buffers... usualy I have to take my 61 prophet with me cuz there is no live buffers :/