Hatchling and SpS Related Questions..

Hiyas, I have a lvl 36 Elven Wizard that I adore. I dual box with a SE(i know, i know) of the same level. Come 40 she will be a SpS. I have a few questions that I hope anyone with spare time and knowledge can help me out.

Tats. Which ones should I get? I plan to eventually get Demon robes for my SpS.

Tats for SE? Necessary? As it stands now she's just a buffer/battery. If I team with clannies, I would most likely keep her OOP to be fair.

Will there ever be a point in my career that I should stop bothering to level my SE or bring her all the way to 76 with me?

I have a wind hatchling. I DO want to level it up to be a strider and possibly keep leveling it. I've read the best way to do it is to use my SE? Would it be better to repeat the quest till I get the mage hatchling (forgot name), if I wanted to level it up along with my SpS and SE?

I think that's it for now. Thanks for your time.

Tats - +INT/-MEN at least, probably +WIT/-MEN as well.

SE should get +WIT/-MEN unless you love the slow cast speed, then stick with what you have - some people prefer the tiny bit of MP regen from the MEN you have over the cast speed.

If you want to keep getting recharged, you'll have to bring your SE so high that she can OE her recharge.

You can level your hatchling along with any character, but yes, a star hatchling is probably much easier to level for a nuker - and cheaper as well, as it won't need armour if you're careful.

I can trade you a star for a wind if it is kain^^

Very cool, Ultima, please contact me in game. Name: Xaisyla

Thanks for your informative response, Maline. Very helpful indeed.

Hiyas, I have a lvl 36 Elven Wizard that I adore. I dual box with a SE(i know, i know) of the same level. Come 40 she will be a SpS. I have a few questions that I hope anyone with spare time and knowledge can help me out.

If I were you, I wouldn't go Sps... ES is a great deal better overall and a ES/SE combo can go anywhere and will be a great deal more desireable for groups.
Note this comes from a player who has played a spellsinger since prelude.

If you persist on the Sps path, at least you do have a 2nd-boxed SE so you won't have to deal with as much downtime. You will have a disappointing road ahead of you unless something changes.

Tats. Which ones should I get? I plan to eventually get Demon robes for my SpS.

+4int -4men
+4wit -4men
+4con -4str (if you plan to PvP)

Tats for SE?

+4wit -4men
+1wit -1men

(SE) Necessary? As it stands now she's just a buffer/battery. If I team with clannies, I would most likely keep her OOP to be fair.

I'd play the SE as a main and consider the Sps an attachment used to level the SE faster.
For best results, assure the SE has more XP overall than the Sps. If the Sps ever pulls ahead, put the Sps out of party. Frankly, the SE is better in party for party heals... if they don't want them... that's their call but it means your Sps will start gimping when the SE falls far behind and their recharge no longer gives less and less mana.

Will there ever be a point in my career that I should stop bothering to level my SE or bring her all the way to 76 with me?

The Sps is half a class... without an SE or EE, a spellsinger is literally an automatic weapon without a clip... you get only the round in the chamber and you are out of ammo.
This is the life of a spellsinger without a recharger.
Level the SE with the Sps period... its your only chance of being halfway useful as a sps.

I have a wind hatchling. I DO want to level it up to be a strider and possibly keep leveling it. I've read the best way to do it is to use my SE? Would it be better to repeat the quest till I get the mage hatchling (forgot name), if I wanted to level it up along with my SpS and SE?

Levelling a hatchling with a spellsinger is less than optimal. Use the SE to buff and heal the pet and the SE while you both kill things... might also allow you to make up some XP for your SE when you leave it out of party.

+4int -4men
+4wit -4men
+4con -4str (if you plan to PvP)

Tats for SE?

+4wit -4men
+1wit -1men





Thanks

The SE is just as unworthwhile as a main as a SpS, except the SpS gets to be decent at PvP when it's done grinding.

Plus, if she has a battery, grinding even a SpS shouldn't be that bad.

I leveled solo as SH until about level 46 then decided to add an SE to provide empower and recharges. It has been great. I will probably level my SE until level 74. I have not decided if I will try to go for the 3rd class transfer on my SE but I don't currently plan on it.

To provide maximum benefit for the SpS / SE duo you will want to hunt mobs that you can kill in 2 shots. This is not really a problem for SH up to level 75, but I'm not so sure on the SpS. You may have to 3-shot in some areas for the best XP in which case you may have some MP management problems even with the SE; however, with MP elixirs you can probably deal with this. I do know that in fast spawn areas that take 3-shots to kill (using CDL in Hot Springs) my SE can still keep up with recharges as long as the mobs drop MP Herbs so it may not be so bad for SpS to hunt in areas that take 3 shots as long as it has MP Herbs and you are willing to pop MP elixirs twice a buff round. As an SH I get body to mind to restore MP. If I hunt in areas I can 2-shot I never run out of MP when supplemented by the SE. You may have issues so you will probably need to use MP elixirs in addition to the SE. If you do this you will probably never have any downtime. You should also use your overhit spell for the killing shot. Many on the forums will disagree here claiming that you will get in SP trouble, however, they must not PvP and must not actually play one. I have enough SP for my 3rd class skills and I always use overhit as the final shot.

Tats. Which ones should I get? I plan to eventually get Demon robes for my SpS.

I use the following tats for my SH:

+4 WIT, -4 MEN
+1 WIT, -3 MEN <-- OK I'm cheap and lazy. I'll fix it some day.
+4 INT, -4 MEN

I love this combination and it should work equally well for an SpS. You may want to swap +1 INT, -1 MEN for my +1 WIT tat to improve Matk. I don't recommend +4 CON for PvP. It will provide minimal shock benefit and the extra HP won't really help PvP. You will still get 1- or 2-shot by archers so might as well go for Matk or casting speed.

Tats for SE? Necessary?

Tats are great. I use the following on my SE with no regrets:
+4 WIT, -4 MEN <-- casting speed is crucial
+4 CON, -5 STR <-- extra HP since you will pull aggro while recharging
+4 DEX, -5 STR <-- extra evasion and run speed

I used the cheaper tats from the NPC store since STR is not a factor when using the SE to assist a nuker. This is not true if you ever plan to assist in melee or archer groups and plan to provide supporting DD with focus duals.

Will there ever be a point in my career that I should stop bothering to level my SE or bring her all the way to 76 with me?

You will want your SE to be no more than about 4 levels below your SpS to provide maximum MP recharge benefits. Basically to get 100% MP recharge your SE level (rounded down to nearest even number) must be 4 or fewer levels below your SpS level (rounded down to nearest even number). Example: SE at level 70 or higher can get full recharge benefit to SpS at level 75 or lower. You lose MP recharge fast. If the level difference is 10 or more you get 0 MP on the recharge!

Have fun with your duo. A lot of people complain about the nerfs to SpS (and they were painful, especially sleep and sleeping cloud) but the people I know that play them still love them, especially if they have the opportunity to hunt with an SE.

The SE is just as unworthwhile as a main as a SpS, except the SpS gets to be decent at PvP when it's done grinding.

The SE will get party invites from just about everywhere...

Both are one-shots in PvP and will be targeted first because they are easy kills due to pots not doing them any good.

Granted, the Sps will do some damage before dying, but the SE will do more good that the Sps in mass PvP due to buffing real PvP classes.

Plus, if she has a battery, grinding even a SpS shouldn't be that bad.

Correct, but a sps is pretty much an "I want to solo" sign.
SE means you want parties... AND you can pull the Sps when you want to XP.

The SE is a (mostly) complete and useful class without the Sps.
The reverse is not true.

Just some notes:

-+1wit or int is fine for PvE... but every HP counts. Sometimes when my shield goes off I actually take two shots to kill! Without the CON tat, you might as well skip the shield too and just admit yer a one-shot.

Dont' forget +4con also reduces stun chance... this is pretty helpful for Spellsingers who can reach 29 CON. +4CON adds a nice chunk of HP... no it doesn't make your spellsinger a destroyer, but it is a no-brainer for PvP when compared with 17 more damage per nuke or .04 seconds faster cast time.

Last I checked, buffers had no active room in PvP... might just be me. After all, why take the buffer with since you can and will get empower in town from a boxed one.

SpS can party just fine, provided the clan is AoE heavy and you grind it up to Frost Wall and Aqua Splash. Of course, that's not neccessarily easy, but then, other classes that are aiming to party also need to get to a certain level to do so (WK, ES - 56 to perform their buffer role in party, SwS 49 for hunter or 55 for earth, EE/Bishop 56 for major heal, prophet 52 to finally be able to at least replace the potions (lol), archers 52 for rapid shot 2 ... ).

SEs are as incomplete as a class can get without being a TK or dwarf.

Some of us don't call port-in-ganking or gate-jumping PvP.
In those cases, yah the sps is better... he'll do 400-1200 damage and then get crit for 8k and die... but its better than the SE who can be boxed in town...

In a siege... SE mana values are massively important as you buff the incoming dead people with the rest of the buff team to make them worthy opponents. This is a very active job, and is thankless and pretty much the most unglorious thing you can think of.... but it literally wins or loses sieges.
This is so massively more important than the string of deaths and kills the Sps racks up during the siege that it isn't even funny.

The sps does not party "fine". He is literally an XP and mana sponge and offers the party nothing that they couldn't have gotten more of with some other class. AoE parties should pick ES or Dorf or destroyer or warlord. Single target parties shoudl pick archers or daggers or destroyers.

The SE is a massviely welcome addition to nearly any party.

The TK is incomplete, but serves its main purpose well.
The TK's biggest problem is that the paladin is better in most ways. Still 100% better than the spellsinger who does not serve their main purpose (damage dealer) without requiring a dedicated SE or EE.

The dorfs need some help, but are still more viable in AoE parties than the Sps... and solo faster to boot. Nevermind the spoils or brownie points for crafting...

Maline, go start a spellsinger please.
You might begin to understand.

Sieges are once every two weeks.

In AoE parties, you generally do not have enough DDs to fill all slots - and of course if you want to go to spots with physical resist, having some arcane damage there would help (the ES in an AoE party would be somewhat useful if you're going to an area with stun, but as a DD it's a very, very sad joke in mixed pole/magic AoE groups).

The SE is not needed in any party, and you know this. You are going off a 'harsh reality' example for the SpS and talking 'ideal world' for the SE.

The SE is not needed in party for heals, is not needed in party for recharges, and is not needed in party for buffs. All they do is give two OOP buffs, everything else can and will be done better by bishops, prophets, or EEs - but they are not always available.

I don't need to start a nuker to see them working fine in various group setups.

Maybe you should take the time to speak to some SEs that are in less than perfect clans though - maybe in whatever clan refused to give your SpS the AoE group spots it would have done well in?

Will there ever be a point in my career that I should stop bothering to level my SE or bring her all the way to 76 with me?

Generally there is almost something more too look forward to from your SE. You'll want 52 for greater empower for sure. Then you'll want it's 56 for the faster cast speed passive. 60 has an other concentration buff, those can be half-decent. Oh, and 62 has Wild Magic, definitely gonna want that. 68 is an other concentration, that's not too bad. And 70 is Wild Magic 2, you should start daydreaming about this spell already. 74 is your last holy resistance. Not great, but can come in handy once in a while. 76 you can OE your recharge (will come in handy if you get your SpS to 80) and then 78 is arcane wisdom and prophecy of wind. Honestly no idea what stats proph of wind affects so can't say if you'll want it or not hehe.

And if you intend to party a bit, people will want your last VR which you get at 72.

Other than the recharge, there's not much to be looking forward to after 70 for a nuker buffer, but because of the level difference modifier on recharge you'll want to keep your SE at least within 5 levels of your SpS.

I have a wind hatchling. I DO want to level it up to be a strider and possibly keep leveling it. I've read the best way to do it is to use my SE? Would it be better to repeat the quest till I get the mage hatchling (forgot name), if I wanted to level it up along with my SpS and SE?

I haven't leveled stryders/hatchlings since they changed them, but from my experience you might want to use both characters to level it. Use your SE to buff the hatchling, then use your SpS' pre-20 battle heal to keep the critter alive and keep the aggro on yourself. Do a quick debuff or two on it first (such as sleep) to get it's attention on your SpS, then spam your heals or battle heals away depending on needs and you shouldn't need any pet rez scrolls.

Sieges are once every two weeks.

Which I do more often than gate-in-gank or gatehopping...

In AoE parties, you generally do not have enough DDs to fill all slots

Dunno where you XP... In such parties, everyone yoinks poelarms.
Spellsingers nuke once every so often with their timered AoE from afar, and if the mobs stun do not use frost wall. (as they are wasting healer mana and possibly their own XP bar) The AoE people are regenning while hitting due to VR and the spellsinger is wasting time and mana as he is barely more effective than the non-polearm classes swinging constantly...

and of course if you want to go to spots with physical resist, having some arcane damage there would help (the ES in an AoE party would be somewhat useful if you're going to an area with stun, but as a DD it's a very, very sad joke in mixed pole/magic AoE groups).

Note the ES has the same probelms... their AoE has a timer... but note also their donkey doesn't die easily to multiple aoe stuns. Need better or magical AoE? Get a necro or SH... they will nuke better and longer and not waste mana should you find a mob which the polearm people don't destroy.

The SE is not needed in any party, and you know this. You are going off a 'harsh reality' example for the SpS and talking 'ideal world' for the SE.

Go to the main skills site and look up group greater heal.
"Needed" in a party? No... but then again you could "solo" with your bot train too and not need anyone.

Ideal world is where SEs are piloted by real people who want their XP too. Maybe you'd prefer a world of bots, but thats not what I want.

The SE is not needed in party for heals, is not needed in party for recharges, and is not needed in party for buffs. All they do is give two OOP buffs, everything else can and will be done better by bishops, prophets, or EEs - but they are not always available.

Right.. but they ARE one of the best buffers AND they heal quite well. Prophet? Um greater heal and greater group heal ring a bell? If I log a level 7x SE in right this minute, I would have a non-clan party a lot faster than any other class save BD or Sws. Try that with a Sps and you will be waiting a great deal longer... indeed forever most likely.
I would indeed like to see all the priests get some lovin in the personal power department, but they do their job (buffing/healing) quite well.

I don't need to start a nuker to see them working fine in various group setups.

So you saw it once on TV and now yer an expert?
So the next time a loved one need surgery, figure watching TV has shown you everything you need to know to handle it right?
Every class in Lineage2 has its quirks and issues. Play them and figure out how they work.

People who "just watch" end up with incorrect conclusions in their heads about the 2 minutes they watched the class...
This is why people think mages are so godly... they see the 2 minutes of nuking and fast killing and do not see the 8 minutes of standing around.

Maybe you should take the time to speak to some SEs that are in less than perfect clans though - maybe in whatever clan refused to give your SpS the AoE group spots it would have done well in?

Or maybe Ill log in a 7x SE and play it for myself... maybe like I did last night...

You don't have to gatehop not to take your buffer with you - you could say, buff up in town, port somewhere, kill (or be killed) and then get back to town. That is the usual proceeding.

I've seen spellsingers stand in close and Frostwall because it DOESN'T waste healer mana - after all, just like all other DDs, they carry health pots and are affected by the group heals.

As far as summoners and AoE nuking in group goes - forget it. Their timers are too slow (much, much slower than those on a SpS might I add), and they don't do comparable damage.

Ideal world is where SEs are piloted by real people who want their XP too. Maybe you'd prefer a world of bots, but thats not what I want.

Maybe you should learn to read before throwing out accusations - as you might know, I play a live prophet, and the problem is as large for me as the next person ... I don't have a viable EXP slave for her or my EE either. As I said, you assume this ideal world in which SEs are not out of group buffbishes and an EE or Bish take care of the in group healing.

Seriously, I think something is very different in your environment than in mine. I don't know how a clan in which an SE gets an in group spot would possibly skip out on a good AoE DD (and SpS are the best arcane DDs in AoE).

Just wanted to pop in and say that I've really enjoyed reading some of these responses and have been enlightened and excited as to what may come. I'm 60% away from 40 now, my battery just hit 39 as well. I love this toon.

Ive spent eons in Field of Silence as its the best bargain so far with use of MP and Shots. I've taken trips to Alligator Beach and Island, but those mobs are still a bit tough for me. Alligators and Croakian Lads are ok, but as far as time and money goes, FoS can't be beat. There are plenty of times where I stand in the middle of the pond and just cast.

I might start a thread on just what its like to level my SpS as I'm seeing plenty of 'reroll' posts, either from those who have long since leveled to 76 and have been nerfed, or those who simply echo the sentiment that a SpS is worthless. I personally think they're wrong, but this depends on what one is looking to achieve in the game and how they enjoy spending their time grinding. I'll go as far to say that anyone who offers the advice to reroll has lost any credibility with me. Sure there are difficulties. To assume that everyone has the same goals as you and feels there's only one way to contribute to a team and only one way to DO that is just a gasbag in my book. Take that how you want. Your bitterness is lost on me.

I've rolled 5 toons to post 32 now. Every time I start thinking of their 2nd class quest, I start to fidget and reroll something else. Not so with my Elven Wizard. She's just grand :)

So I'm off to FoS to reach 40 and do the SE quest for my battery. I'm looking forward to committing to this toon and the many hours and probably deaths to 76 and beyond.

Thanks again to those of you who offered constructive feedback and insight to what my destiny may become.

Reroll my [censored].

Edited// Oh! Thank you, Ultima, for the trade. Nice to have met you. :)

Ha! That finishes this thread off quite nicely.

From one of those 'live' SEs running around out there.