all scroll based escapes that are of the "blessed" variety (to include CH) should be eliminated from the game....yes.
Has nothing to do with karma or level or finances or anything else.
If you can't handle the opportunity to die in a hunting location then take a stronger party or don't go there. No reason the game should provide a "safe exit-on-demand".
These scrolls are exactly why the party system with multiple toons playing vital roles has broken down in the game! A duo of archers can go ANYWHERE--if things get hairy they bsoe. Shouldn't even be possible. Without bsoe scrolls it would be necessary to take a TOON along with a bsoe SKILL in the party, or to take a tank for handling aggro, and a healer to keep the tank alive, etc.
Without all the 'gadgets and gizmos' there would actually be a need for toons with varied capability.
Personally think bREZ should be toon-skill only as well--but it's bsoe that acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card that has truly made the game carebear imo (related to pve).
oh come now, drakkos. surely taking 4% is a hard death to take. especially from 61-60 again. A grade at 61 has become a sinch for many now. S grade even simpler with the removal of many scambots.
dont laugh ive seen it. legit C graders affording B grade while still in their C. B graders affording A grade while still in their B. money at those levels is one of the easier things to come by; exp takes time. ive heard and read of 4% deaths taking as much as 12 hours to regain. escaping death with that kind of grind meansescaping 12 hours of LOST grind time. if 4% means going backwards from A to B again, or for that matter S back to A, there are problems and clan wars that can ensue.
i dont know about you, but i LIKE my exp and level. i treasure it highly. if i didnt, i would be consistently deleveling. i suggest if you dont think exp is hard, to do a delevel once. and this isnt aimed at drakkos alone; anyone that thinks exp is easy to come by, go die on a guard. get it back next day. its easy right ?
Alright then.. Then also remove the ability for red players to enter the rift.
i have nothing agaisnt red players, i want BSOE out of game alltogether, and i'm sure i'm not alone.
go die on a guard. get it back next day. its easy right ?
its a pvp game and it just sucks how some ppl untag for alil while from pvp clan to get levels and bsoe as soon as you flag on them. I'm against allowing bsoe specially during pvp.
all scroll based escapes that are of the "blessed" variety (to include CH) should be eliminated from the game....yes.
Has nothing to do with karma or level or finances or anything else.
If you can't handle the opportunity to die in a hunting location then take a stronger party or don't go there. No reason the game should provide a "safe exit-on-demand".
These scrolls are exactly why the party system with multiple toons playing vital roles has broken down in the game! A duo of archers can go ANYWHERE--if things get hairy they bsoe. Shouldn't even be possible. Without bsoe scrolls it would be necessary to take a TOON along with a bsoe SKILL in the party, or to take a tank for handling aggro, and a healer to keep the tank alive, etc.
Without all the 'gadgets and gizmos' there would actually be a need for toons with varied capability.
Personally think bREZ should be toon-skill only as well--but it's bsoe that acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card that has truly made the game carebear imo (related to pve).
oh come now, drakkos. surely taking 4% is a hard death to take. especially from 61-60 again. A grade at 61 has become a sinch for many now. S grade even simpler with the removal of many scambots.
dont laugh ive seen it. legit C graders affording B grade while still in their C. B graders affording A grade while still in their B. money at those levels is one of the easier things to come by; exp takes time. ive heard and read of 4% deaths taking as much as 12 hours to regain. escaping death with that kind of grind meansescaping 12 hours of LOST grind time. if 4% means going backwards from A to B again, or for that matter S back to A, there are problems and clan wars that can ensue.
i dont know about you, but i LIKE my exp and level. i treasure it highly. if i didnt, i would be consistently deleveling. i suggest if you dont think exp is hard, to do a delevel once. and this isnt aimed at drakkos alone; anyone that thinks exp is easy to come by, go die on a guard. get it back next day. its easy right ?
I don't disagree Spudnik--I, too, value my hard earned exp.
My issue is more like 80% anti Bsoe and 20% anti BRez. These are fine as SKILLS imo, but I'm not a fan of the easy scrolling.
It's these types of things (my argument at least) that REDUCE the need for inclusive parties and cooperative play.
Most (not all) folks at A-grade have associations where they can get a % rezz and a rescue party to come and get them back to life. As I said, of the two, the Brez (not part of the OP's point) is LESS of a complaint of mine.
The BSOE is pointless and not needed in any way in the game. If you can't handle the PvE 'heat' then you're in the wrong spot or should have dragged along more help---PARTICULARLY at B-grade and above.
I just hate the "instant fade away scrolls" in the game. Guess it's just a personal feeling.
Your enemies bsoe?We usually form an archer gank party=1 shot kills.
Drakkos-is your highest lvl char 60?If so everything you say is meaningless.
The ppl that will benefit MOST out of the No BSOE rule would be the cheaters that got to 78/78+S grade in an instant.If you want to go around shooting stuff go play CS.
AS for the archer party:sry mate cov archer party can handle any zone except maybe FoG since those mobs spawn alot.But its not like we dont have EEs for that-why waste money on bsoe when we have an EE?
Your enemies bsoe?We usually form an archer gank party=1 shot kills.
Drakkos-is your highest lvl char 60?If so everything you say is meaningless.
The ppl that will benefit MOST out of the No BSOE rule would be the cheaters that got to 78/78+S grade in an instant.If you want to go around shooting stuff go play CS.
AS for the archer party:sry mate cov archer party can handle any zone except maybe FoG since those mobs spawn alot.But its not like we dont have EEs for that-why waste money on bsoe when we have an EE?
bias imo.
not all pvp is 76+ noob.
most of the "low" levels pvp all the time. i have over 1000 pvp's and im not even level 65.
cov archer parties really are only ganking each other. those that gank lowbies find empty servers eventually.
Your enemies bsoe?We usually form an archer gank party=1 shot kills.
Drakkos-is your highest lvl char 60?If so everything you say is meaningless.
The ppl that will benefit MOST out of the No BSOE rule would be the cheaters that got to 78/78+S grade in an instant.If you want to go around shooting stuff go play CS.
AS for the archer party:sry mate cov archer party can handle any zone except maybe FoG since those mobs spawn alot.But its not like we dont have EEs for that-why waste money on bsoe when we have an EE?
Yes, my highest toon is 60. And my opinions are every bit as relevant as yours.
Just because you bought a twinked toon doesn't mean you know more than what I learned actually playing mine.
The fact is that bsoe is for sissies. Guess you can use them if you want...........
The BSOE is pointless and not needed in any way in the game. If you can't handle the PvE 'heat' then you're in the wrong spot or should have dragged along more help---PARTICULARLY at B-grade and above.
Nobody is gonna go and BSOE constantly. BSOE in PvE is usually an emergency thing for rare happenings; certainly I don't know anyone who uses them more than once a month for PvEing. And you're not going to reform your party based on something that rare.
The biggest use I've had for BSOE are for getting out of server problems. When I was still in the 60s, I had a party quite a ways into DVC where the whole party disconnected at once, but the server didn't go down. %res would be difficult; a rescue mission down there wouldn't really even be worth it, and if we logged in one at a time, nobody was gonna survive to res the others. So we did the smart thing -- login the ones with most HP/pdef and run the aggros as far away as possible, then BSOE. The others can login safely and SOE normally.
In fact, of the five or so times I've bsoed in PvE, all except one was related to client crashing, client disconnecting, or lag. The last one was a very unlucky chainstun, five stuns landed in a row and I even had resist shock 3.
Just because you bought a twinked toon doesn't mean you know more than what I learned actually playing mine.
I didnt but then again i made it to high lvl unlike you.And my emphasis was not high lvl pvp but high lvl XP.Its 1 thing to lose 4% on 60.Its totally different to lose 4% on 75.
Even NCSoft knows that!They are reducing death penalty after 76 because NOBODY wanna grind lost XP at those lvls.But i guess you will never reach em so...
Oh and in PvP only high lvl counts.Ppl lose too little to bother killing them at 60 pfff.
I usually bsoe when i have this in my log:
The effect of "insert random vortex here" flow trough you!
And get my CP off with 1 hit.
I wish i could bsoe when i get para....
Nope. Just know that as a glad... your view on PVP is misguided.
boy ignorance must be bliss for you. tell us what its like to be so deluded please.
Back at you, bucko. Until you spend a buffround getting a fraction of a percent... you will never know how true the statement he made was. But then again... you are a nonfactor so you wouldn't know better.
I will bsoe since recovery scrolls are more expensive... not to mention how I hate losing my hard earned exp. But that's only if I have the option. I would still prefer it if they where out of the game entirely.
Might I suggest you take a look around and tell all the people below the "high" levels that they don't matter in PVP? That all the fighting they're doing with one another doesn't matter?
If high-level PVP were all that mattered, I think it'd be locked out until 76. Then you could PVE your way up until it was time to start PVPing.
I was gonna post right here the difference in grinding between 75+ and 55+ but got lazy.Whats the point in telling it to somebody?Just grind and you will see.
At low lvls you get 4% back in no time.At 75+?Do you KNOW?
Deaths of the lowbs don't matter. They can spend 5 minutes and get all of their exp back. It isn't the same for high levels... and if you don't understand this by now... you never will. Either way... stop being so quick to pull out the soap box and the "WE'RE LOW BUT WE MATTER" protest banners. It's tiring.
So it just means you have to work more. Doesn't change the PVP aspect, only the grind to get it back.
But then, L2 is always a grinding game. It shouldn't come as a surprise.
I'm not insulting the high-level PVPers, just pointing out that your way is not the only way. I know a lot of people in B and A grade that like to PVP, and do so regularly.
I think if you're that concerned about losing your % you should just stay in town. That's all.
Your enemies bsoe?We usually form an archer gank party=1 shot kills.
then why you worry about not being able to bsoe?
I usually bsoe when i have this in my log:
The effect of "insert random vortex here" flow trough you!
thats exactly why bsoe should not be allowed.
are you saying its ok for you to 1 shot ppl due to cov archer party, but its not ok for mages to 4-5 shot you, cuz you want time to bsoe?
i know xp at high lvl is not easy, but if we're talking about 2 clans at war - you only get 1/4 xp loss, and CH gives you 50% back then throw in clan skill "lucky" and xp loss isnt big at all.
in the case of untagd trying to kill you, there are 2 situations
if you low level - you get xp back rather quick
if you high level - you should be able to defend yourself
if the untagged desires to go red, they risk losing w/e they got on them, since they wont be able to bsoe.
We are talking about bsoe and the need for it.It may not be PvP.It might be PvE also.I havent made 75 by staying in town tywm.Your advice is trash.My clan has 15 active wars and im not complaining.But when that 78 SpS (untagged) comes to visit its good to have a bsoe scroll handy right?
PvP at low lvls is like killing someone in WoW!Atleast they get "honor" points for their kill.Here you just waste your time.
You dont win if you die.You dont lose if you bsoe.Keep that in mind pls.Also to die to a war tag is to lose rep points.And we need them for lvl 7 clan skills :(
Stop using the "your way is not the only way" tag line and start admitting when you're wrong.
It's not the only way. Now, that being said I don't expect anyone to see my way as the only way either.
*shrug*
This game offers something for everyone, be they role-players, grinders, or stuck up little pigs that can't see past their own noses and think that there is only one way.
Maybe it's just me... and everyone else that plays differently.
If you think bsoe is bad just dont buy it.Free choice.
I want to have the option to bsoe.Just because its in my inv it doesnt mean im gonna use it (clan wars for example).
Yeah i hate the low lvl useless ppl that keep thinking they matter.
We are talking about bsoe and the need for it.It may not be PvP.It might be PvE also.
oh cmon now, how often ppl at your level bsoe in pve? once a month maybe? if that? last time i had to bsoe when grinding was over 2 months ago.
thats in pvp when high levels bsoe several times a day. dont forget if that lvl 78 sps comes, it wont be able to bsoe either
so you have 2 options, you either accept the fight and flag back, or you let that sps go red and accept your party's bishop rez, stand up and then start wacking on pinata.
But you chose to be a stuck up little pig. Stop complaining about it. You don't know about pvp because you chose not to do it. You don't know about exp because you chose to not level. You don't get castles, gear, chs, and etc because you chose not to compete in the same way as everyone else. Sure.. you say you compete in your own little ways... that you deserve it. But you really don't. It's not the server's fault that you're the stuck up little pig who thinks they are entitled to something other people have to work for. So stop crying about the consequences of the choices you make. It's all on you. This is our game. Our rules. Mob rules. We will not accommodate you. You do not play like us.... so stop giving us your misguided views on matters such as these. You are wrong... and your faux sense of superiority does not change this.
Heh.. I bet you still think taking a non pvp stance is the hardest thing to do in the game. Well... no [censored].
no bsoe rule has alot more to it then it seems at first glance:
in addition to eliminating carebarish style of play, it will bring back demand of not very party freindly classes today, that for all this time have been left out in the dark. bishops and ee will benefit from it alot.
Your enemies bsoe?We usually form an archer gank party=1 shot kills.
Drakkos-is your highest lvl char 60?If so everything you say is meaningless.
The ppl that will benefit MOST out of the No BSOE rule would be the cheaters that got to 78/78+S grade in an instant.If you want to go around shooting stuff go play CS.
AS for the archer party:sry mate cov archer party can handle any zone except maybe FoG since those mobs spawn alot.But its not like we dont have EEs for that-why waste money on bsoe when we have an EE?
Wow can you say "Elitist" ….thought you could.
It is indeed true that player death at a high level costs more in terms of XP for those of us at lower levels but I beg to differ when you say that a person who's toon (or toons) are under 75 opinions are meaningless. Currently I have 5 toon that are all (or soon will be in the mid 60's.) I've played just about every class in the game. Does that count in your book? Can I add all the XP from those toons together so that I can have a valid opinion in your eyes MR. 75+ whatever??
Do you really think that the game changes that much for those over 75 that it makes you the "extreme know it all of L2" and that the rest of us poor souls who haven't reached your exalted level are not worthy of having an opinion that is different then yours?
Give me a break. Get off your high horse.
His opinion is just as valid as yours, it may or may not be correct in your eyes but he certainly has the right to say it.
Dont wanna spoil it for you but nobody in my clan/warring clans /care about going red...
My last PvE bsoe was when i agroed 3 hames orcs shamans in BS and 1 spawned behind me (they cast root).I LOVED my bsoe.
What point of 1 shot=CP gone dont you get?You flag back=dead you stay=dead!You wanna tell me that if you had an exit you wouldnt use it?
Low lvls on a crusade!I played till here : TH/SE/SpS/SH/HE/BH/WS and my main is Sorc/BD sub.I enjoy playing mages but i got stuck with the Sorc (dont ask why).I also have only 1 account.And im telling you-until you meet the insanely stupid 71+ lvl walls you know nothing about teh grind.
Haha when you have achieved nothing all you can do is making accusations.Every high lvl has bought gear?Some ppl here play for a 3rd year now.A few ppl in my clan are on 3rd sub.But hey keep to your point of view.
I dont care about it at all.
they easily and freely go red, for the most part becuz they know they can bsoe to CH right after and work the red off safely in rift or on guard. if bsoes are removed alltogether they will think twice of whois around the area that can drop them and collect the goods. and more classes will be welcomed in parties for the sole idea of fighting back if pvp comes. bring back support classes to parties.
and chaotic players should not be allowed to pr, to prevent situations where you can gank while in duo with EE and end up in town second after.
The only one who's missing it is you. The opinions of inexperienced players do not matter. They have no perspective on these matters. It's not that we disagree... or that we don't get it... it's that you're wrong.
The only reason I'm even bothering with you is because NC messed up GameGuard and I can no longer play.
As for Franz... unlike on Lionna.. if you wanted a fight.. you can log in immediately and fight to your dark little heart's content. On Lionna.. you can run around for hours and not find anything worth while. And don't let the fact that it's one sided fool you. 99% of the server is decidedly on the same side. While the glorious 1% are having the time of their lives. If anyone says otherwise... they are probably on the bandwagoning side.. in which case... no [censored] you can't find anyone to fight. You have the entire server on your side.
Heh... it's funny that you resort to trolling instead of admitting that you're wrong. How's that working out for you? I bet it's the same when you where trying to seige without pvp... right?
As for you who go red... I can't stop laughing. We turn off wars just so you can go red. Why? Because we know you will... and that it's worth it. I don't care if you have bsoes and etc.... we still take items from you at a regular basis... and all you have to show for yourselves are last minute flames. You can call us noobs all you want to for not keeping 2 way wars open at all times... but we benefit from it... while your bravado is costing you. I know it's off topic... but I just had to put it out there since you brought up reds.
since i want to be instant cool i will type it in caps so nobody reads it and the point is clear;
PVP AT 76+ IS ONLY MORE INTENSE. HARDER, YES, MEANINGFUL MORE THAN AT 5X, NO. HARDER TO GET A POINT YES, HARDER TO MAKE BACK LOST EXP, YES, MORE MEANINGFUL IN A CLANWAR NO.
did you learn to drive when you were 10 or 70 ?
did you learn to talk at age 2 or only when talking became meaningful ? anyone can kill anyone at any time. HELLOOOOOOO. level 2 can pvp JUST AS EASILY as lvl 76 can kill lvl 76. the only difference is making back the loss. for that reason, many lvl 76+ bsoe.
PVP AT 76+ IS ONLY MORE INTENSE. HARDER, YES, MEANINGFUL MORE THAN AT 5X, NO. HARDER TO GET A POINT...
is that before of after you hit bsoe?
...YES, HARDER TO MAKE BACK LOST EXP, YES, MORE MEANINGFUL IN A CLANWAR NO.
level 2 can pvp JUST AS EASILY as lvl 76 can kill lvl 76. the only difference is making back the loss. for that reason, many lvl 76+ bsoe.
thats exactly what i'm against, i dont want you to bsoe, i want you to fight back... use whatever friends/party members you have to help you fight, not run to mommy or to town for escaping a fight.
It's not just 1 pvp. It's minutes worth of exp vs hours. You have nothing to lose... which is why you keep making this ridiculous argument. While others know the pain of losing a good portion of a day to pvp not going their way. Yes.. it's a part of the game... but it's not as easy for us to shrug it off as it is for you. When you have something to lose... once those recovery scrolls start costing more than bsoes... then you know what it means to lose pvp.... then you know how it becomes serious business at higher levels.
It's not just 1 pvp. It's minutes worth of exp vs hours. You have nothing to lose... which is why you keep making this ridiculous argument. While others know the pain of losing a good portion of a day to pvp not going their way. Yes.. it's a part of the game... but it's not as easy for us to shrug it off as it is for you. When you have something to lose... once those recovery scrolls start costing more than bsoes... then you know what it means to lose pvp.... then you know how it becomes serious business at higher levels.
Seacrest out.
you just validated the point that 76+ SHOULD bsoe. all the time.
if nobody wants to lose at pvp, and nobody wants to work back any fraction of lost exp then please enlighten me as to why youre saying you SHOULDNT bsoe.
It's not just 1 pvp. It's minutes worth of exp vs hours.
is not everyone aware that xp loss at 76+ is going to be reduced within few weeks? keeping that in mind it might be just as bad dieing at 62 as it is at 76.
Eh. I'm done with you. You have no idea what you're talking about anymore and seem to be relying on old accusations.
But then, I do hope you enjoy Franz. Really, no sarcasm there.
What was the original topic again? Oh, right. BSOEs on reds. Personally, I'd like to see the BSOE removed to give EEs a place in party, be it with a chaotic or not. I'm all for removing things that take away from a class' position.
I can see the point of a BSOE as has been mentioned (that party crash in DVC, for instance), but at the same time I think they pervade the market too deeply right now.
And, to give an idea of what I don't like about a BSOE: Was in a clan group in DVC. Warred clan sorcerer shows up, blasts me while the group is resting. Down I go, and he's BSOEd before anyone can hit him.
I didn't care about dying so much as the fact that there was no way to fight back. And so you know, the moment he showed up people were moving. He came in on a hit and was gone before they could do anything.
is not everyone aware that xp loss at 76+ is going to be reduced within few weeks? keeping that in mind it might be just as bad dieing at 62 as it is at 76.
Nope.I already mentioned it before.And it will gradually decrease as lvl increases.Which means at lvl 80 you might lose 2% "only".For those that dont know how much XP you need for it...just shut up really.
Who here agrees with me that killing monsters over and over is ******ed?
Who here wants to keep doing that just so he can PvP?
And who here actually took a moment and considered the REASON why duel system was implemented?