I have some reservations about their plans. A lot of what they have planned sounds great in theory for large clans. In the North American/European market, I have doubts whether the population is large enough to support may players actually having fun. And I have doubts as to whether small clans/alliances will be able to play high-end game at all. We'll see, but I have my doubts.
I don't think he's lying as much as his paradigm for "more fun" is just completely beyond the pale from most other people.
here are some memorable quotes:
Lineage II shifts into full gear
after 3+ years it now shifts into full gear?
Now with chronicle 5 finished we can say we achieved everything we set out to do.
lovely
We were concerned that players may tire of repetetively doing the same things over and over
again, after 3+ years they realize this?
Also, these mini games seem separate from "Lineage II". They indicate you can launch them from within the game client.
My thought is that if I wanted to play another game I would play another game. If I want to play Lineage II I want to play Lineage II.
How about mini games that take place within the world of Lineage II. My fear is that they are going to introduce these separate games much in the style of that card game we have.
Also, more weapons above S grade? Here's an idea. Finish your dinner first then you can have dessert. Otherwise you go to your room.
What about expanding S grade first. Then we can discuss above S grade.
My foray to the PTS nearly blinded me with the everyone looking the same.
GAH Can't play this file, it's using some confusing codec WMP can't download, neither can I figure out the URL of hte media so can't play it in other players really crappy ><.
Well, i do believe them...
They're saying at the very beginning that they were reading the forums and taking ideas from them, and yes, i've only been playing from C3 but i can clearly see some "casual-friendly" evolution, which is something that have been asked for right here !
Besides, i dont know why they would lie, they wont advertise a game for what it is not ?
And finally, they seemed really nice, so yes i believe them :p
They keep claiming it's a PvP game, and it very much isn't.
I'd like to believe them, but I know that just what they've said about interlude is so heavily glossed that I can hardly call it true anymore - so why would what they say about the Throne be different?
Well, i do believe them...
They're saying at the very beginning that they were reading the forums and taking ideas from them, and yes, i've only been playing from C3 but i can clearly see some "casual-friendly" evolution, which is something that have been asked for right here !
Besides, i dont know why they would lie, they wont advertise a game for what it is not ?
And finally, they seemed really nice, so yes i believe them :p
awww... I like you more with every post Grazzt :D
Though I don't know, K.B Chae seems cool but I just get the feeling that J.H Han is sneaking extra snacks when no one is looking and perhaps taking one too many long coffee breaks. I'd watch your back with that one :p
They keep claiming it's a PvP game, and it very much isn't.
Can you kill other players? Are there still clan wars? Are you still able to kill others in an attempt to control a castle which "governs" an area? If you answered yes to any of these, then it is still a pvp game. ;) Now I will say, in my opinion, that there isn't much incentive anymore other than pride and politics.
dice were a great in-game mini game, and they didnt detract from the core game. they still have those right? seems to me like they spent a lot of time doing impossible things for this update, realized they had little to no actual content, and decided to call it "interlude" and tell us that next time they would do a real update. i dont see anything wrong with this, just wish they would reduce the p att of bows. on the pts i saw 1 person, out of hundreds, dressed in imperial crusader armor. i assume it was one of those rare tank or melee types of classes that no one plays anymore.
The sheer amount of grinding to level up and the sheer amount of trouble to get good gear is part of what keeps this game from having more PvP, IMO. Overall market preference is probably another reason why, again, IMO.
(FYI, I'm a bit of a carebear in L2 myself, so I'm not really taking sides on this issue. Just offering some thoughts on why there isn't more PvP.)
In my opinion theres already too much PvP aspect to this game. Its about time they started enhancing the PvE part. People are getting too saturated and too bored with the PvP thing...it gets old pretty fast. The only reason why this game didn't go the way of ShadowBane is because this game at least as a PvE system that can keep players "in".
In my opinion theres already too much PvP aspect to this game. Its about time they started enhancing the PvE part. People are getting too saturated and too bored with the PvP thing...it gets old pretty fast. The only reason why this game didn't go the way of ShadowBane is because this game at least as a PvE system that can keep players "in".
pvp never gets old. lack of it does.
pvp definately doesn't play a big enough role in this game though, imo.
Thats just adding more dimensions to PvP on top what already exists...the stuff I mentioned like War, regular PvP and Castle Sieges, not to mention the various free-penalty PvP areas in the game.
They are adding Fortresses as well. But I can see how you could add PvP for clan hall rights but that would be kinda unfair too for the clans that don't belong to HUGE alliances. They do have to take balancing aspects of the game into gameplay.
But compared to how PvE is now in the game, I think PvE is lagging far behind to PvP. They REALLY do have to enchance the PvE aspects more. I'd even dare say most people who play Lineage 2 in NA, play it for the PvE aspects, since everyone is doing this most of the time anyway.
Devianne typically 1 of the top 3 in server status (Teon and Bartz are usually the other 2) There isnt one full alliance on the server almost 8 months after 3 clan alliances were introduced. In c4 there was no any full 12 clan alliances either and they want to introduce epic battles in NA?
360 person alliance consitutes a nation ok so please explain to rest of NA why on most server 100 - 140 person alliances are running the whole server? This is not korea, we need our own Dev team in NA they have no clue why this game isnt working because they play the game from a different point of view in korea then people in NA/Europe do.
Its been stated numerous times most clans/alliances in Korea are from the same towns or internet cafes and thats how they form their clans. In NA/Europe outside of greece and brazil most people play from their houses and never know the people in their clans IRL before hand.
1) The new race looks something between dark elves and normal elves from that concept picture the guy was working on. It will be interesting to see the classes available for the race and what their base strengths and weaknesses are. Im curious as to where their starter zone will be, will it be like the the dwarfs and orcs were up to C5 where they were in an unaccessable area, or will they make quite a large area to join up somewhere..... or maybe start work on Garcia? There are quite a few questions i think everyone will be asking about the new race when it's finally revealed.
2) Capes will only look good on heavy armour classes i think, archers or daggers with a cape will look a bit odd imo.
3) Again with the inter server stuff, it has potential, if it's done right it will be awesome, if it lacks some key features that makes it fall sort then it will be crap.
4) How much of this still will we see in the next major update? Fortresses are a 100%, the main structures have been finnished as we have seen in this video, so it's the mechanics that have got to be added, again, i think this has allready been finnished and in testing since this video was origionally released last year in korea. The inter server stuff is supposed to be something to do with the fortresses so im gonna say this will also be included since its mecanics based. If they release the new race too late in the games life then i doubt many people will play it, so im gonna make a guess and say thats goin to be added next update also.
This update wont be coming out for a while i think.
The only thing that seems to be lacking right now is the PvP in lower levels. Right now only higher level people can join in the PvP. I want to see something like castle seiging for lower level players that also want to join in the PvP.
The only thing that seems to be lacking right now is the PvP in lower levels. Right now only higher level people can join in the PvP. I want to see something like castle seiging for lower level players that also want to join in the PvP.
not a bad idea at all. they could make gludio castle "b grade" and anyone that is A grade of above, that goes there, risks 4% instead of 0% loss if they die during the seige. i remember going to seiges in C grade gear when most people were in A grade, and they were fun. but a single hero can kill 200 c graders without too much of a problem, by increasing the high-end content they really shafted lowbies from being able to participate in these things.
Quote:
The only thing that seems to be lacking right now is the PvP in lower levels. Right now only higher level people can join in the PvP. I want to see something like castle seiging for lower level players that also want to join in the PvP.
not a bad idea at all. they could make gludio castle "b grade" and anyone that is A grade of above, that goes there, risks 4% instead of 0% loss if they die during the seige. i remember going to seiges in C grade gear when most people were in A grade, and they were fun. but a single hero can kill 200 c graders without too much of a problem, by increasing the high-end content they really shafted lowbies from being able to participate in these things.
ive always wanted that
it just doesnt seem right when gludio is owned by a clan whos average lvl is 77 :/
Quote:
The only thing that seems to be lacking right now is the PvP in lower levels. Right now only higher level people can join in the PvP. I want to see something like castle seiging for lower level players that also want to join in the PvP.
not a bad idea at all. they could make gludio castle "b grade" and anyone that is A grade of above, that goes there, risks 4% instead of 0% loss if they die during the seige. i remember going to seiges in C grade gear when most people were in A grade, and they were fun. but a single hero can kill 200 c graders without too much of a problem, by increasing the high-end content they really shafted lowbies from being able to participate in these things.
ive always wanted that
it just doesnt seem right when gludio is owned by a clan whos average lvl is 77 :/
The problem with that is if you put limits on what lvls can siege certain castles then it removes the "open pvp" aspect of the game. It then becomes similiar to "let their only be a certain range that players can pk other players".
My thought is that NC should add other things that lower lvl players can do that can add to a siege. Whether that is "relighting" the castle's crystals or shoring up walls or maybe even "sapping", some other activity that can make a difference but is not dependent on level.
My thought is that NC should add other things that lower lvl players can do that can add to a siege. Whether that is "relighting" the castle's crystals or shoring up walls or maybe even "sapping", some other activity that can make a difference but is not dependent on level.
Like, for example, spying on the enemy movements? Or delivering supplies? Buffing?
There's a lot they can do already. You just have to know how to use them.
On that note, my clan has the policy of "everyone online helps at the siege at 100% of his or her ability", and this includes the level 1 academy member as much as it does our nobles. And everyone of them does make a difference.
I know the last time we sieged, we had people watching for enemy movements, as well as watching the other castles (since people get bored at one and come to another if they want action).
We had people running shots and crystals and such too. It was working wonderfully.
My thought is that NC should add other things that lower lvl players can do that can add to a siege. Whether that is "relighting" the castle's crystals or shoring up walls or maybe even "sapping", some other activity that can make a difference but is not dependent on level.
Like, for example, spying on the enemy movements? Or delivering supplies? Buffing?
There's a lot they can do already. You just have to know how to use them.
On that note, my clan has the policy of "everyone online helps at the siege at 100% of his or her ability", and this includes the level 1 academy member as much as it does our nobles. And everyone of them does make a difference.
Well, exactly! It's just my thought that there could be more for them to do but sure! Buffing, carrying shots, reporting on movements, relaying messages...
When I was a clan leader I had a rule that "if you were logged in and past 2nd class change you were at siege".
If you were not past 2nd class change then you were highly encouraged. Of course, characters were lower level back then.
The problem with that is if you put limits on what lvls can siege certain castles then it removes the "open pvp" aspect of the game. It then becomes similiar to "let their only be a certain range that players can pk other players".
they did add this. and clan halls come in different grades so i dont see why castles shouldnt. i like the idea though, of lower level players contributing directly to the seige, just not sure how it could be done. like a quest they can do while running from one NPC to another inside the castle and when its completed the front gate is repaired slightly.
1) The new race looks something between dark elves and normal elves from that concept picture the guy was working on.
What he was working on was art for an NPC that was added to castle throne rooms in Interlude. Not quite sure what her function is yet, but she's definitely an elf.
I just hope they get fortresses working in the first expansion of the Chaotic Throne, I imagine that if there was a halfway patch in Korea that activated them we'd have heard about it by now. Interlude does seem a bit lean on content, maybe that means that they're pooling their resources for the next expansion? :D We're about due for another dragon in an expansion or two, no?
The problem with that is if you put limits on what lvls can siege certain castles then it removes the "open pvp" aspect of the game. It then becomes similiar to "let their only be a certain range that players can pk other players".
they did add this. and clan halls come in different grades so i dont see why castles shouldnt. i like the idea though, of lower level players contributing directly to the seige, just not sure how it could be done. like a quest they can do while running from one NPC to another inside the castle and when its completed the front gate is repaired slightly.
I think that might be the right track. Some sort of mini game that lower lvl players can do in order to repair the walls or doors a bit. Another thing they can do is add some sort of ballista that a lower lvl player would be able to operate from the walls.
o thanks for reminding me, good time as any to ask someone who knows. how many dragons are there, and what are their names/elements?
Six dragons- Antharas (Earth), Valakas (Fire), Fafurion (Water), Lindvior (Wind), Aulakiria (Light), and I dunno who the dragon of darkness is or if he even has a name.
u rock for actually knowing that stuff. i vote for Fafurion + swimsuits for thongicle 1.
@sov: wasnt there talk of a sort of tower thingy with wheels at some point, that allowed people direct access to the tops of the walls of the castles (if they climbed the tower thingy that i forgot the name of, it was a real seige engine thing). they could push that.
u rock for actually knowing that stuff. i vote for Fafurion + swimsuits for thongicle 1.
@sov: wasnt there talk of a sort of tower thingy with wheels at some point, that allowed people direct access to the tops of the walls of the castles (if they climbed the tower thingy that i forgot the name of, it was a real seige engine thing). they could push that.
I actually don't remember developers talking about that. Not that that means anything.
It would be interesting though. Most likely "summoned" like a golem and then driven up to the walls.
Sure they read the boards, the boards of lineage2 KOREA, they have nothing to do with america and solely base the game around Korea.
We are basicly getting the korean version translated and bam thats what we get. Now the majority of Korean's enjoy the grind and lack of pvp, compared to the typical american or european player. With this in mind, it shows.
We have 2-3 servers with lack of people, no new characters or people rerolling on those servers, this is a key issue and has been for 2 cronicles now has not been addressed and needs to be.
Simply put: Bring it down to 3 American servers, 1 Roleplay server and 2 European servers.
With that concern out of the way
That video was the biggest peace of tossing off ive ever seen and wannabe marketing. They basicly said they were going to add capes and stuff back in c3 and never had yet, i guess they finally got around to drawing a couple of things and saying hey lets add +dex or something to them and they will all be happy!
Forts - terrible idea, we already have sieges, clan hall sieges, raid bosses, so its another thing to hold? Unless its a "alliance held" castle then i dont see many being taken if they are simply like taking a castle of clan hall and cant "stack".
Sure they read the boards, the boards of lineage2 KOREA, they have nothing to do with america and solely base the game around Korea.
We are basicly getting the korean version translated and bam thats what we get. Now the majority of Korean's enjoy the grind and lack of pvp, compared to the typical american or european player. With this in mind, it shows.
We have 2-3 servers with lack of people, no new characters or people rerolling on those servers, this is a key issue and has been for 2 cronicles now has not been addressed and needs to be.
Simply put: Bring it down to 3 American servers, 1 Roleplay server and 2 European servers.
With that concern out of the way
That video was the biggest peace of tossing off ive ever seen and wannabe marketing. They basicly said they were going to add capes and stuff back in c3 and never had yet, i guess they finally got around to drawing a couple of things and saying hey lets add +dex or something to them and they will all be happy!
Forts - terrible idea, we already have sieges, clan hall sieges, raid bosses, so its another thing to hold? Unless its a "alliance held" castle then i dont see many being taken if they are simply like taking a castle of clan hall and cant "stack".
They will never fix it the way we want.
You do bring up certain good points though.
Why the heck is it taking them so long to make items for this game?
Even besides capes, weapons and new armor?
And instead of adding these fortresses, make siegeing better. There's an idea.
I love the art department for our developers but someone is just slacking on the job when it comes to actually developing the game.
Simply put, this game is too hardcore grinding for the majority of people who tryed to play and went to WOW. Marketing would do little to nothing to help. Also they have no dection methods on most kinds and really, that means employing about 5-10 more people for a year, while they lost oh i dunno a good $5mill in revenue every 3 months?
i agree this isnt a noob game like wow whe you hit lv 60 in 2 months :/ and bunny hop in pvp -_-"
i played both and i can say l2 is way more hardcore ten fold!! plus it has cool toons and weapons and more content more nice ppl and and and and and and and you get the point if the grind is 2 hard go wow you dont belong here period!
hmm L2 is indeed 10 times harder then WOW i cant say it's bad i personaly think it's good
only thing they can do to inprove are quests make some quest little more easy for the casual gamer like Fate wisper and other quests
they might start to work on new game items like B,A weapons and armor's it's not Lineage that can get borring but it's the lack of content like only see BW armor, DC armor Draco bow stuff like that or a other fix
FIX the current weapons like,
Halberd,A Duels,Blunt weapons,2 handed Mage blunt weapons like a inproved Acu instant of 15% make it 30%
stuff like that
er no acu mage weapons at 15% are more than good enough. Do you want mages to get nerfed again? 30%? thats psychotic.
As for improving the game, yes, I wholheartedly agree that NCSOFT needs to focus much on the PvE game.
Improved/Better Quests that are REWARDING and means something. Or just FUN quests not this endless chore-driven excuse for quests we got in the game now.
More PvE enhancements like Mob migration, Chaos engine that dynamically make things happen in the world like a randon rain on a village by mobs or a group of thieves demanding money on the road from travellers, etc... Just something that is more RPG related to enhance the mmoRPG element of this game.
i played both and i can say l2 is way more hardcore ten fold!! plus it has cool toons and weapons and more content more nice ppl and and and and and and and you get the point if the grind is 2 hard go wow you dont belong here period!
I would agree with you on every point except the "content" comment. I've never played WoW, but I do concurrently play EQ2, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Saga of Ryzom and Anarchy Online, in addition to my 2 Lineage2 accounts.
Using the other premium game I play in comparison... I've destroyed more level 20-30 shoes in EQ2 than L2 has in all of armour items. I've completed more quests on a level 27 alt in EQ2 than exist in all of Lineage2. In addition to XPing in EQ2, I can choose to engage in tradeskilling, I can buy and decorate my house(s), I can buy and raise pets for gladiatorial combat, I can quest for, make, or buy items for my house. I can gather materials for other tradeskillers to make things with, hoping to get rare materials for rare and enchanted armour and weapons. I can, should I desire, improve my Alcohol Tolerance skill by sitting in a tavern, knocking back one of a dozen different types of booze.
To touch on quests, L2 has, basically, two types of quests. The first type is to kill X number of Y mobs until you receive Z number of quest updates. There is no logical number of kills between X and Z, you simply kill until it tells you to stop. The second kind of L2 quest requires no killing apart from incidental encounters on your way as courier-girl/boy between Point A and Point B, because the NPC knows they've got you by the short hairs if you really want to have the Shiny Thing they have (and gave away to someone else, which is Quest Type 2, Chapter 2).
In EQ2, there are plenty of "Kill X number of mobs" type quests. There are "Kill X number of Y type mobs until you have Z items from them." There are quests where I have to catalogue (ie, basically take a picture of) a list of mobs native to a region (or regions). There are quests where I need to either make something or have it made by an appropriate tradeskiller. Some quests require me to hunt a specific type of mob for quite a while, obtaining specimins and body parts for study... eventually rewarding me with a high-damage special attack against monsters of that type (not to mention a book about those monsters and a trophy weapon to hang on the wall of my house), etc etc.
This is what we mean by "content". Not just a variety of items across the board, so that 2 toons of the same race and class can look radically different, but also in sheer variety of things to do and twists on the tried-and-true themes of MMO quests.
L2 sorely lacks in all departments. There is an ever-dwindling amount of gear at each successive grade. You can grind... or you can grind. L2 is grind, grind, grind in everything you do. XPing is a grind. Fishing is a grind. Manoring is the XP grind with fewer immediate rewards. Playing the market is a grind, as you loop around Giran, Aden, Dion and elsewhere, searching for the stuff to buy low and resell high.
So far, NCSoft hasn't done much to address these conderns. Despite the talk about the over-abundance of bots, lack of marketing, mass bannings, etc. I think the real cause for the population drop in recent months is because people just got bored and left.
i dotn get it, if l2 lacks in every way why oh why continue playing?
obviously those that have 3 subclasses, 6 armor/weapons sets and 2 castles actually think the game was worth staying and playing.
i dont see the point in the hypocrisy of flaming NCsoft for a bad game. i love it, i cant explain why i do, but i do.
its got everything, easy to learn, easy to play, and is fun. i disagree with all the flames against NCsoft for "a game thats lacking in every department" because i honestly dont think it is.
whining "the quests suck" "pvp sucks" "castle holding sucks" "dwarfs suck" is PART OF THE GAME.
i feel dumber trying to explain why at 6x you suddenly awaken to a boring game.
well some of us after playing for YEARS would like to see a game that has taken leaps and bounds above in the PvP area do the same n the PvE area, since after all this game is BILLED as a mmoRPG yes?
After years of the same sh*T people get tired of it. I'm not sure exactly how long you've been playing?
PvP gets old and since they are releasing new chronicles every so months in between, I think its a positive thing to give feedback to see areas where the game could be improved.
You see, games don't improve without feedback..out of thin air ... like the theory of evolution heh.
You actually have to tell the developers what you want for them to consider it. Yes?
Its not flaming to say L2 could be improved in a endless amount of ways... but couldnt you say that about every game ever made
if things never needed improvment we should all be playing Gorillias.bas now that game took mad skills...
but really... most of us that have been playing multiple toons (race, class, lvl 1 -80) for the last 3 or so years should be able to see the vast amount of refinements made to Lineage2 in that period of time
most of the classes have made the journey from pvp gods to pvp duds back to pvp gods (or not)
the grind in its infinate glory has evolved from 9 man partys or die to anything from solo back to the 9 man party and anything between
the newbie system !!! anyone whos been around knows i need not even say more
for those who think that a few new skills, weapons, augmentations isnt even a update to speak of... Prelude to C1 ya know what we got ? a cithara and about 1 square inch added to the map and we crapt ourselves about how sweet it was
there was only 4 or 5 diferent armor graphics in the whole game
the quest and manor and economic changes actually make it possible to have $ now instead of having to use you NG gear till 35 you DG gear till 45 and then after C there wasnt anything even close to obtainable
monsters have gain new attributes/skills ( not jus 2 mb types w/ dif skin and dif hp)
i could rant for hour about how many things have changed and imo for the better... do i think alot more needs improved on in all of the areas i already typed ? Sure Do
saying the game needs improvement and making suggestions how it should be improved is constructive criticism.
saying the game is great but needs something new is lunacy.
when santa comes to give you new toys do you mock him? when the easter bunny comes and hides nice things, should you shoot him?
likewise take the game as it is. the refinements are made as the devs see fit, and when they make a boo-boo, they know and sometimes they fix it.
did the devs take into consideration the antharas exploit? likely not. but it hasnt been fixed since 3rd class skills ever came into existence nearly 3 chronicles ago.
the players CREATE the problems. the devs patch what "needs" patching.
dont be a Homer. " mmm, this is pretty good ... if lasagna is italian for PILE OF PUKE!"
if you dont like something, by all means complain till youre flamed. im not allowed to tell you to leave.
saying the game needs improvement and making suggestions how it should be improved is constructive criticism.
saying the game is great but needs something new is lunacy.
when santa comes to give you new toys do you mock him? when the easter bunny comes and hides nice things, should you shoot him?
likewise take the game as it is. the refinements are made as the devs see fit, and when they make a boo-boo, they know and sometimes they fix it.
did the devs take into consideration the antharas exploit? likely not. but it hasnt been fixed since 3rd class skills ever came into existence nearly 3 chronicles ago.
the players CREATE the problems. the devs patch what "needs" patching.
dont be a Homer. " mmm, this is pretty good ... if lasagna is italian for PILE OF PUKE!"
if you dont like something, by all means complain till youre flamed. im not allowed to tell you to leave.
I dont know about you spudnik but why dont you search in the game suggestion forums on how many posts I made there? You'll know I made a load of constructive criticism and suggestions over the years.
Screw Lineage 2, I want to play the game he is describing.
On a side note, how about instead of focusing on adding additional content which is in reality just more of the same, they focus on making the content we have more enjoyable as in changing pve from just grind by holding down F1 and targeting a nondead mob to something more, though I know not what. Simply making monsters harder to kill alone does not accomplish this, it actually makes things worse. And for the developers information, Jurassic Park does not add better rewards you cannot achieve alone, it just adds more of the same rewards and same gameplay with a riskier dressing.
hmm personaly i dont look forward for interlude
even with a 9 party groep the risks vs rewards are insane
also it's to focused on conflicts why other did they put it on a small island the new A weapon's is a good start btw