Returning Player....need quick class advice

Player Questions Started Last reply 40 posts
Haven't played for a very long time (2yrs) and as in all MMOs thing change a lot. Back then I played a prophet and loved the whole buffing/healing thing (buffing more so).

Currently, for end game what is the best buffer and the pros/cons thereof?

I will be leveling up most likely with a caster friend, are one of the buffers better for casters.

Any other advice would greatly appreciated. Thanks all !!
You're liable to hear lots on this one. I know more about melee buffs than nuker, but here's what I know:
SE (Shillian Elder) is one good buffer for a nuker, as they have Empower, Wild Magic, and Recharge for mana.
Prophets have a lot of different buffs, but the only ones I know of offhand for nukers is Acumen (cast faster) and Bless The Mind (increases max mana).
EEs (Eleven Elders) have Clarity for nukers, which makes mana use more efficient.
WCs (WarCryers) have lots of end-game buffs, but mostly for Fighters.
OLs (Overlords) have nuker buffs, but their skills and job is to support large clans and allainces in seiges and mass-PvP.
Bishops mostly heal and do crowd control.
Now for the part you night now be aware of: Evidently, in the early Chronicles, buffers/healers were highly valued. Than a trend started where many people start a 2nd account and drag their own healers/buffers around. This seems to have created a lot of dissatisfaction among the few people who still play "live" buffers and healers. They no longer are as needed or valued, or at least many of them feel that way.
However. There are still some classes of which I keep hearing that there are not enough to go around at high levels. Whenever I hear this, WarCryers always pop up. Also, there are 2 tank types who are really more buffers than tanks, as far as I can tell. One of these is the BD (BladeDancer) of the DE race, the other is the SwS (SwordSinger) of the LE race. Warcryers are probably scarce because they get their good buffs at high levels. I don't know why BDs and SwSs are in short supply. But, if you are looking ahead to end-game, I commend you for thinking ahead, and I suppose these might be 3 good classes to consider playing.
One last thing: I sometimes look at websites for featured clans. Some of them state a preference for "live" buffers and healers. If you decide to play one of the more common types as a main (Prophet, SE, maybe Bishop or EE), you might want to look for one of these clans.
Live buffer/healer >>>>>> Box. Boxing helps for exp grind, but PVP, sieges, raids etc. you will really love a live buffer/healer.

Prophets have lost most of their unique spells, which is why many prophets are grumpy. Also, the increasing use of boxed buffers in general is making all the support classes grumpy, and imho a bit scarce to find. You can get a box, but a live one is many times hard to find.

For _the_ end game, I'd say WC is the best currently due to it having almost all of the vital, most needed buffs. And the fact that it has CoV. But on the other hand, reaching that end game will take some time and by then Interlude atleast will be here.

Prophets and WCs are better suited for physical dmg dealers, be that melee or archer, BUT you can also support a nuker with Prophet. Acumen, Bless the Soul and Bless the Body all help nukers, and if you duo with a SH/Necro, they can sustain their MP wih BTM while you heal them occasionally. Ofcourse, Prophet is not the best buffer for them, but it can perform the job to some extent.

SE and EE are more the nuker buffers, with mana recharge and Empower(SE) and Clarity(EE). SE on the other hand is also pretty good for melee fighters, due to it having the critical buffs and VR. EE is more of a tank buffer/healer for melee oriented ppl.

Then there's the Bishop and OL, which are both even more specialized classes. Bishop sacrifices alot of buffing power for great healing power, that is only somewhat matched by EEs(or Paladins, atleast in the amount a single heal does ^^ And this is only my opinion, some say that EE is even better.)

OL on the other hand is a clan/alliance buffer, that gets many useful buffs and CP heals. It also has powerful drains and other combat skills, which it shares with the WC.

For nuker support, SE/EE are best.
Thanks Charmille. Do you WC will still be ok to support my caster friend? Also, are WC brought in only to buff or to heal also in most groups?
WC is a buffer first and foremost. Chant of Life is a heal over time, so it is not nearly as powerful as the heals of EE/Bishop, or even that of an SE.

But, for melee groups it doesnt matter if VR is involved. PVE wise.

As a support for a nuker, I'd say that it wont be that good. WC lacks mp recharges, BtS, BtB and the buffs use more mp since they're for the whole party. No clarity emp(if I remember right) either on WC so yea, it doesnt have much to offer a nuker in the sense of support.
More questions....

I think I have it down to OL or WC, however I don't know what you are talking about when you speak of the spells, since you are using acronyms. Can you elaborate a little more please.

In the end, the question is, will I get invited into a group when they already have a healer? Does the buffer help that much to a group?

Thanks a lot for the help.
Could you please also tell more about the differences between the OL and WC endgame?
I returned after not playing since 04.
I have been having alot of fun playing my Knight Elf.
I didn't have as much fun as I am now when I quit in 04.
Tried out a mystic Human and she kills everything in 1 to 2 hits (same level as her).
OL is the ally buffer good for raids and Mass PVP, also can heal CP and HP, really hard to level cuz his buff benefit only your clan/ally
WC is a party buffer and can also be secondary damage dealer, really good buff and a heal over time kind of buff it can level fast cuz his buff benefit anyone on the party
Pay attention when one of the other posters says a OL is hard to level, and tey aren't always well-supported by the clans and alliances who benefit from their presence during a castle seige. Maybe PainAmplifier or one of the other posters who plays an OL will give you a reply with more details.
A WC seems to benefit any high-level party that includes some fighters.
Regarding acronyms, I know VR means Vampiric Rage (The WC equivalent of this is called Chant of Vampire.) BTS means Bless The Soul. BtB means BlessThe Body. CoV (Chant Of Victory) is a level 78 or so buff that WCs (Doomcryers) get. It seems to increase several player stats by 10-20% each, for the 20 min duration of the buff.


I will be leveling up most likely with a caster friend, are one of the buffers better for casters.

Any other advice would greatly appreciated. Thanks all !!



First issue to keep in mind. If your friend is playing a 'caster' (Spellhowler, Sorcerer, Spellsinger or Necromancer in full caster mode.) then playing a buffer helps *them* but doesn't give you much to do besides picking up drops and rooting an occasional mob. (Assuming you are both leveling with BSPS, and doing without is quite frankly not much fun with a nuker.)

Buffer + archer is much the same. They kill, you just pickup and occasionally root. This is why 90% of the 'solo' archer and nukers all have a boxed buffing char on a second account permanently attached to their posterior instead of partying with a 'live' buffer.

Buffer + melee is far more 'playable'. By that, I mean both players are useful and have something to do as well as fitting in fairly easily if you find or start a party.

If your friend is going to stay a caster, then the best thing you can do if your going to level together is to play a complementing caster as well. Or an archer, that way you are both ranged characters and neither of you is left 'holding the bag' so to speak. I would however suggest that you might wish to play 'complementing' characters if you will. That is to say, each of you play a different class and play your strengths off each other. A fair amount depends on what class your friend is going for. As some go together better and some just depends on how well you play together.

Regarding buffers though. There are really a limited amount of really needed buffs. Ignoring buffs like Might or Shield, which are pretty much given to all buffers, broken down by combat type they are:

[Melee]
Vampiric Rage
Haste
Focus
Death Whisper
Agility (Only if an evasion based class though.)

[Archer]
Wind Walk
Focus
Death Whisper
Agility
Berserk

[Nukers]
Acumen
Empower
Bless the Soul
Berserk (Not really necessary, but it is one of the few buffs that not only help nukers. But also has far more benefits for a nuker and less drawbacks than it does for melee.)

[ALL]
Bless the Body
Bless the Soul
(Added here because while not necessary for any of the classes, these are still equally useful for all classes nonetheless.)

This roughly splits the 'functionality' of each buffer based on which part of the buffs they get.

[Elven Elders]
These are really more healers (like the Bishops) than the rest of the 'buffers'. The vast majority of their buffs are 'defensive' in nature and they are not one of the popular buffing classes. They can work fine with another melee, having plenty to do just by healing and giving their defense/resistence buffs, but with a nuker or archer they are going to be stuck just giving recharges or rooting things at best.

[Shillien Elders]
Ah, the Dark elves. One of the more popular buffers. SE's are pretty much one half the 'good buffs' for both melee and casters. They get Empower and recharges for the casters and Vampiric rage, focus and death whisper for the melee. Heals were nerfed slightly in C5, but they are still a decent character overall.

[Prophets]
The 'Other half' of the good buffs for both the Melee and casters. They get Acumen and Berserk for the casters, and Haste, focus and death whisper for the melee. They also get the very useful Bless the Body and Bless the Soul buffs that help both classes. (For now I am ignoring their late game 'Prophecy buff', although it is another skill that is fairly decent.)

Comparing the Prophet and the Shillien Elder, the Prophet gets more buffs, but the SE continues to get heals. (The prophet stops getting them at L40.)....and now on to the Orcs.

[Warcryer]
This is the best Melee buffer, simply due to the fact that they get all the best melee (and most the archer buffs.) The names are different but the effects are the same. They get Haste, Focus, Death Whisper, Vampiric Rage, Agility and they even get Acumen. (Their only 'nuker' buff.) They also get a physical version of the "Blazing skin" buff that reflects damage taken back upon the (melee) attacker. For now I will ignore 'Chant of Victory' as this is a late game buff (It only lasts 2 minutes not 20) and given the cost (Both in MP and in adena, since it uses spirit ores.) you probably won't be using it all the time. Oh, and Warcryer don't get Wind Walk. (A minor omission, but still noticeable.)

There are some downsides to having all these buffs however. First downside is that you get them much later in the game at higher levels than the other buffers. And the other main issue, is that these are all 'party buffs' and their MP cost reflects this issue. Thus if you cast all your buffs, it's going to take a significant amount of your MP to do so, although this has the side benefit of allowing you to buff a whole party much faster than the other buffers.

Warcryers also have one 'Heal'. Chant of Life, this is a 'pure' 'heal over time' and does not benfit from shots. (other than cast speed...and it needs it!)

[Overlords]
Finally....the red-headed stepchild of Lineage 2. As far as a buffer goes, the OL is more suited for nukers than melee by a long shot. They get Acumen, Berserk, Wind Walk and Empower. For melee all they have is Agility, Bless Shield and Death whisper. Well, sort of. They max out the few buffs they have slightly sooner than a warcryer, although they start getting them later. But they don't get Death Whisper or Empower until they are L77!!!!! At which time they get their first (and ONLY) levels of those skills, although they are at maximum power.

Overlords get one heal as well. Heart of Paagrio, is their heal and it is half instant, half 'over time'. Thus they do benefit from shot use, and it is a fast casting heal.

Not only do Overlords have many of the same issues as Warcryers do with the lateness of their buffs and high MP use. But they have the added distinction of being a buffer poorly suited to be 'boxed, unlike the Prophet or Shillien Elder as they are almost completely replacable by potions until they are nearly at the Level cap.

The issue here, is that either a Shillien Elder or a Prophet can make a good buffer for a nuker, when supplemented by potions you can buy at almost any time, but the only thing an Overlord has that cannot be carried in a potion before L77 is Berserk. And that is the one buff that does the least for a nuker out of all their effective buffs. (And if you want it that much, a Prophet has it and other useful buffs as well.) In constrast, a Wacryer does quite well fighting alongside the characters he has buffed.

For most 'casters' having a Shillien Elder or a Prophet along to buff, simply breaks down to one thing. Do you need Empower or Not? And for the most part, a casters damage is high enough that it isn't always necessary, despite being the best way to add a noticable boost your a nukers damage. Spellhowlers and Necromancers might prefer Prophet for the "Bless" buffs + Acumen/Berserk, while Spellsingers and Sorcerers might prefer a Shillien elder for Empower + Recharges. Although some have been known to box *both*.

NOTE: The following buffs can be bought regularily from either the Trader of Mammon, other players or even the General stores. (If you don't mind them being lower level.)

Haste
Acumen
Wind Walk

When comparing the above buffers, it's helpful to keep this in mind, as you can 'supplement' (or replace) missing buffs with potions and all it costs is a bit more adena...I won't go into all the ways an Overlord is and has been gimped for now...but if your still stubborn enough not to give up on them yet, just let me know and I'll give you the rest of the dirt on them. (It ain't pretty though.)
One small item. IMO Haste/Chant Of Fury buffs for attack speed is one of the essentials for a melee. (It's the whole reason I stopped leveing my SE at 58 and spent a months creating and lvling a WC up to 58.)
Wow, Pain and Oldfart thanks for the info. I have discussed more with my friend and he may actually be open going a melee class (just for change). So I may be ok with a WC.

It concerns me though that no matter where I read most people are pretty upset about their buffing class....ie prophets, WC, SE, EE .

Is it really that bleak? This is one of the things I enjoy most about L2 is their buffing classes and I know of no other MMO that has a good "buff" class.

I still would love to play a Prophet again too, but after reading about all they do is buff and sit in sieges etc... that didn't sound so fun, so I thought maybe WC would have less downtime. Also the fact Pain you stated WC can get in there and fight well, also helps "pull" me towards the WC.

Pain could you please give more "dirt" about the WC and anything else you know of the Prophet class.

THANKS AGAIN for the info!!!
Pain's answer should be stickied.
The dirt is on the OL, not the WC. The only real issue for a WC is that their buffs use up most of their mana, so they can't do much healing, or any other casting for that matter, when buffing parties. They can do a little, but not much. They can, however, can in there and help deal damage after getting buffs.
PainAmplifier from time to time comes out with some really nice, detailed replies.
Not sure if your friend has chosen his melee class or not yet, but I have heard excellent things about a melee setup with a WC.

Back in C4 when I was playing my Ranger, two of my real-life friends started playing, within two months they had both leveled up higher then me. The combo was a Bladedancer/Warcryer

Apparently the dances and buffs between the both of them helped them duo extremely well in Catas/Necros and in places like Cem and Blazing Swamp.

I can only assume that this would hold true today, but a DD/tank Support like a Bladedancer would be a excellent choice imo.
As a duo partner for WC, all high DD classes are good. Be they daggers, gladis, tyrants or destros. And ye, BD can do nice too with them.
A WC, a BD and an SE make one of the best all around support trios. Some places ofc may need some specialised help (Bishop, EE, prophet, SwS). But for general purpose hunting, I think this is the best combination. At least for normal mixed parties (tanks, DD, dwarves, summoners, mages). Not only they provide the most needed buffs for melee, ranged and mages, but they also provide a) high damage output due to BD dances, b) MP management due to party buffs (WC), recharge (SE), c) heals (SE, WC). And the BD and WC can contribute a lot to DD.
I really appreciate everyone's suggestions !!!

I'm still headed down the Shaman path...

We'll see what happens.
only thing i missing with PainAmplifier part is that if you compare WC with a SE that the SE get their buffs at a very low level while a WC still is not good till 62 while a SE got already good buffs at 40
The overlord has some other qualities that have not been mentioned. Ally CP heals are wonderful for sieges. Crowd control for AOE parties. The OL is king in this dept. AOE root and silence.
Yep, at low levels the SE has better buffs, so this is worth mentioning. At high levels, this is reversed. Personally, I would rather play for the high levels. You're gonna spend a looooot more time there. Also, the effectiveness of VR is not just in the level of VR itself. The attack speed and GreaterMight buffs of a WC at level 58 or 60 give a lot of self-healing, even though VR at that point is only level 2. The GreaterMight buff can be stacked with the Might buff, apparently, to give even more VR effect to the melee player.
Haste should not count as class deciding factor, as it is available for a decent price in a bottle. Greater Might works out, but it's problematic to the WC since Greater Shield's effect is greater, but the WC can only chose one for all characters in the party.

On a whole, however, WC > other buffers. GG NC. :(



at 79, however, WC > other buffers. GG NC. :(

fixed

remember the reasons why one class of rangers is greater than another; AT LVL 61 theres the quiver of holding skill.

remember why bishops are so uber in interlude; AT LVL 60 they get targettable UD, and self recharge at 58.

people who "just play to 40" and either reroll or /quit will never understand why their class is so great.

contrary to popular belief, high levels are unattainable without some UBER support.

some days i hate this game
I am not talking about Haste, but Haste2. If this is available at a decent price in a bottle, I'm not aware of it. (GSAP is in a bottle, but it is certainly not cheap.)
I'm just curious, have you played something like an Orc with a Pole? If you have not, try it sometime with just SE buffs and Potions Of Alacrity. Then have the SE swap VR buffs with a Prophet-buffed party passing by, with the Prophet giving Haste2 to the Orc Fighter. It's an eye-opener. for sure. After this happened several times to me in CoA and GC, I became a believer. I still am.
Oldfart, since I'm a newb I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying Prophet, SE, or WC is better or are they all good end game?
Prophet: unbeatable in Olympiad. Got very nice buffs that all classes can profit from
WC: Chant of Victory at 78.
SE: is just ... SE. Empower and Vamp rage. Nothing to look forward once you get VR3 (maybe VR4 but it's not something to crave for). Oh and recharges.
woah woah woah you oldfart.. (hah) i like what your saying n all, but BD's and SwS's are NOT tank classes, SwS's are better at tanking than BD's though. But they are DEFINATLY not tank classes.

1. they get the **** beat out of em in PvE
2. Have EXTREME difficulty holding aggro off of players.
3. BD's cant even block they use dual swords.
and 4. they aint tanks - .-!

i agree that SwS's need to be used more, But i swear every BD fighter i see is a freaking blade dancer. HUNDREDS OF BLADE DANCERS.
If you are poling and can't afford GSAP there is a problem with where or how you are poling. :p
I think Crawlerin said it pretty well. Prophets and SEs are always good to have around, but SEs have a reputation of not having any real end-game content. WCs are great end game buffers for fighers in General and melees in particular. Plus, at around lvl 78 or so, they get the awesome ChantOfVictory buff. This buff is said to be great for end game, and I hear it mentioned in connection with Archers a lot for PvP. Here's a link that gives a description: http://www.l2p.bravehost.com/buffs.html.
Honestly, I'm not sure what class BD's and SwS' fall in - even though they descend from Knight classes. I was just trying to say, they aren't considered casters, but all the same, if a player is looking for a support class whose buffs are in demand at high levels, BDs and SwS's are worth considering.
Maline, what you say about Poling is true. But the Haste2/CoF2 buff is very useful for all melees in any situation, and when the melee is not using a pole, GSAPs are too expensive.
BDs and SwS are a hybrid class. They are apparently knights despite taking not a single knight quests (therefore being given roots to put them in their odd spot on the odd PvP triangle), but their actual functionality is different.

BDs are great VR tanks though, and SwS can make an OK shield tank if the group is careful and the SwS has a backup bow to build aggro.

That aside however, I hope everyone rolls them for dances/songs. :p
SwS and BD's are rather unique classes in the sense that their main role is party support. They both buff the party with buffs that stack with other buffs. After learning arrest they can do some tanking (specially SwS) to lighten the main's tank burden. And they can debuff the enemey. They don't replce a normal tank or a normal buffer, but their presence enhances the party's efficiency.

Maline, what you say about Poling is true. But the Haste2/CoF2 buff is very useful for all melees in any situation, and when the melee is not using a pole, GSAPs are too expensive.



GSAPs are completely viable even when not poling...
Figure you need roughly an extra 1k per minute to make up for the expenditure.

Most of the time you kill the majority of your standard adena drop profit margin, but they raise XP rates by a significant margin.

If you are on a quest like the magic coin quest which means you get X number of coins per Y number of kills, paying for GSAP is not only viable but profitable. You have to think long term... how many more kills are you getting over 6 buff rounds?

Given that last night's 30 mil profit for 4 minutes of shopping/haggling isn't anywhere near uncommon for someone who knows what they are looking for...

GSAP are not that hard to afford, even if your hunting skills aren't that stellar.
Maybe it's just my level, then. I am just now up to lvl 61, and it was low 40s when I tried the GSAP's. At those levels, on my first characters, no the drop rate didn't support GSAPs.
GSAP was first profitable for me at level 20. :p
i got a level 69 BD and they getting weaker with the level their real bottle neck is that they dont have armor skills witch in turn makes it with eatch level harder to tank.
they sud put Light armor skills for a BD like half of a Dagger user sinds then they still cant realy tank but a lot better then no armor skills at all
Perhaps I didn't think analysis through. I was buying them from Priest of Dawn, and it seemed like they were sucking up all my stock of AA. Even today, when I have a lot more AA, they just look expensive to me. Just my upbringing, I guess.