Farmers are a part of the game. They are real.... and they are acknowledged on all sides, despite what a few think. Recently, one of these farmer clans had a mass ban.... which is perfectly fine.... but here's the thing.
Farmers are people. Being so... they are sometimes befriended. There isn't anything in the rules saying we can't be friends, right? Right? We help each other raid when our numbers are sparse... and we share locations and what not. We feed off of each other as players do... the only difference being that they are farmers and we aren't. Well... apparently there was a clause somewhere that we missed... because two of my clannies where hit in their clan ban. Yes... they where tagged up in the farmer clan for a little bit.... but it was only to do raid bosses and chill. Nothing more. Yet... they got banned for the following.
"The above listed account was recently suspended due to a violation of Lineage
II's User Agreement and or Rules of Conduct (ROC). The reason for the account
suspension is Buying/Selling/Trading Accounts or Items. Please go to PlayNC
Support for further information."
There is no other explanation. We are all discussing this at the moment. The only people that where banned where from that clan... and that's it. The few of our members who dropped our tags for theres for a few days where hit too... and only them. We know that enemies have been mass petitioning their clan for the last few weeks... and that's okay. It goes with the territory. They where farmers afterall. The problem I have with this is that they hit the wrong people.
So my question to you is this.
If you knowingly associate with people who break the rules... will you get punished for their actions? Will talking to them... having them in your friends list... partying with them get you banned? I just want some clarification here... since joining their clan was enough to get banned. I just want to know where the line is drawn.
I don't believe saying hi to them and having a discussion in pm should get you banned, after all you are not doing anything wrong there, but helping them out while doing raids (and getting profit for yourself in return from it, by using illegite means - as you said its a farmers clan) is something completely different.
Ofcourse trading is a grey zone, we all know that, then a private sell shop is way easier.
From what I read in your post some of your got a bit greedy, partied a bit with those farmers and now got the ban hammer for that. Well that's rough, but hey if you wanna play with fire, might as well deal with the consequences.
Just out of curiousity - what makes you so certain your friends were not involved in obtaining gear that was later sold or ebayed themselves?
Sorry, but when an entire clan of people are banned for reasons we knew ahead of time, and ONLY those people that where in that clan, that line of questioning becomes moot.
From what I read in your post some of your got a bit greedy, partied a bit with those farmers and now got the ban hammer for that. Well that's rough, but hey if you wanna play with fire, might as well deal with the consequences.
No question there. The only thing I ask is where the line is drawn... because if we knew ahead of time... we would have never had nothing to do with them. We would have avoided them like the plague.
Easy raids/ crystal leveling is good and all... but it's not worth risking a ban over. I don't care how chill the farmers are.
Sorry, but when an entire clan of people are banned for reasons we knew ahead of time, and ONLY those people that where in that clan, that line of questioning becomes moot
no it doesnt necessarily become a moot point, it depends on what they were doing in the meantime while beig in that clan no matter if they were perfectly legit before and after the said banned clan. 1 wrong + 2 rights isnt= right.. there is still the 1 wrong.
Now dont misunderstand me here i'm not saying they did something wrong. I would not have a clue about that.
I'm saying that if there had been evidence gathered of your people (while in their clan) doing the same illegit things with the same illegit methods and then re-joining your clan and resuming on the legit path they shouldnt escape the ban-hammer. The points isn't completely moot.
Its hard enough to keep track of what legit or illegit methods a clannie is using for a leader and even harder while they are within another clan just for chilling for a little while before returning. Peoples history doesnt change when they switch clans.
I'm not critisizing you nor your banned friends or anything like that i'm trying to help you figure out lines and directions. Associating with farmers isnt illegal if you yourself stay on the legal path and they aswell while partying with you but if they are using illegit methods while playing with you in party then it makes you part guilty too wether you're aware of their methods or not.
I can try and cook up an example;
You have a bunch of high/equal lvl friends that take you into their party and help you raise your toon on the expense of their own exp its their choice and its fine. However if said friends happen to be using the automated illegit "afk-lvling" methods wether you're aware of it or not the NC staff may view it as you in second hand taking aid from a 3 party program to gain exp and could include you in the banhammer.. moreso if you're aware of their methods.
I hope this is helping you somewhat. It could be so that your clannies while in that clan knowingly took aid from their less legit methods without your clans knowledge and control and got to suffer from it afterwards.
Being friends with illegit people carries its risks and sometimes prices. Your reputation can take a bad tone throughout the server and sometimes it can get you banned. If your clannies really didnt take part of any partying/raiding/gathering of items for e-baying at all with them and only shared the clantags colors and the social from the clanchat then they indeed did nothing wrong and if they can convince l2 staff of that then i'm sure they have a chance of getting their accounts back. It is going to have to be through emailing the support center as GM's refuse to handle it in these forums
Farmers are a part of the game. They are real.... and they are acknowledged on all sides, despite what a few think. Recently, one of these farmer clans had a mass ban.... which is perfectly fine.... but here's the thing.
Farmers are people. Being so... they are sometimes befriended. There isn't anything in the rules saying we can't be friends, right? Right? We help each other raid when our numbers are sparse... and we share locations and what not. We feed off of each other as players do... the only difference being that they are farmers and we aren't. Well... apparently there was a clause somewhere that we missed... because two of my clannies where hit in their clan ban. Yes... they where tagged up in the farmer clan for a little bit.... but it was only to do raid bosses and chill. Nothing more. Yet... they got banned for the following.
"The above listed account was recently suspended due to a violation of Lineage
II's User Agreement and or Rules of Conduct (ROC). The reason for the account
suspension is Buying/Selling/Trading Accounts or Items. Please go to PlayNC
Support for further information."
There is no other explanation. We are all discussing this at the moment. The only people that where banned where from that clan... and that's it. The few of our members who dropped our tags for theres for a few days where hit too... and only them. We know that enemies have been mass petitioning their clan for the last few weeks... and that's okay. It goes with the territory. They where farmers afterall. The problem I have with this is that they hit the wrong people.
So my question to you is this.
If you knowingly associate with people who break the rules... will you get punished for their actions? Will talking to them... having them in your friends list... partying with them get you banned? I just want some clarification here... since joining their clan was enough to get banned. I just want to know where the line is drawn.
Farmers are a part of the game. They are real.... and they are acknowledged on all sides, despite what a few think. Recently, one of these farmer clans had a mass ban.... which is perfectly fine.... but here's the thing.
Farmers are people. Being so... they are sometimes befriended. There isn't anything in the rules saying we can't be friends, right? Right? We help each other raid when our numbers are sparse... and we share locations and what not. We feed off of each other as players do... the only difference being that they are farmers and we aren't. Well... apparently there was a clause somewhere that we missed... because two of my clannies where hit in their clan ban. Yes... they where tagged up in the farmer clan for a little bit.... but it was only to do raid bosses and chill. Nothing more. Yet... they got banned for the following.
"The above listed account was recently suspended due to a violation of Lineage
II's User Agreement and or Rules of Conduct (ROC). The reason for the account
suspension is Buying/Selling/Trading Accounts or Items. Please go to PlayNC
Support for further information."
There is no other explanation. We are all discussing this at the moment. The only people that where banned where from that clan... and that's it. The few of our members who dropped our tags for theres for a few days where hit too... and only them. We know that enemies have been mass petitioning their clan for the last few weeks... and that's okay. It goes with the territory. They where farmers afterall. The problem I have with this is that they hit the wrong people.
So my question to you is this.
If you knowingly associate with people who break the rules... will you get punished for their actions? Will talking to them... having them in your friends list... partying with them get you banned? I just want some clarification here... since joining their clan was enough to get banned. I just want to know where the line is drawn.
PWNT!!!
uhm... uhm.... !
the guy was serious and it deserves a serious response no matter what the topics content is
Exactly, although I'm by far not inclined to believe your clannies got banned for something they had not done...still a clear borderline description would be welcome.
After all we know what the laws are and where we are crossing them in real life as well, right?
I guess the answear for that is clear, they got banned becouse they made profit with the help of farmers. And no farmers aren't a part of the game. Unfortunaly NCSOFT just seems to not have enought people on their staff to bann all the farmers of the game for broken the game rules. The existance of farmers in this gae is what made the economy crazy in all servers.
Ps. Good players don't play along with farmers. WE KILL THEM.
guilty by asscoiation(pardon spelling, im drunk again)
its a rule that goes throuhg all facets of life..if u r friends with a bad kid in school, ur fingered as a bad ki,...if u r friends with a person at work who is a back stabber, u r a back stabber...if u r friends with a drug dealer, u r a drugdealer....esepcialy when you join their clan...even if just to chill and hang out...though it does suck..it is the truth, if any one of us saw a character in a known farmer clan..then saw them months later in a legit clan..we would still have them pegged as a fargmer and forever know them as this..unless we actualy took the time to et to know them on a personal basis...which is obviopusly something a gm cant and wont do..thusly they are guily by association...
though i must say i do feel bad for them on a player to player lvl....i my self have serting places that i
"share" with farmers, they buff me..give me % res when i die..and engage in casual fun conversation from time to time...am i friends with them..no..aquantences..yes..would i ever join a party with them or a clan..no...why?...becasue the above outlined reason...i dont want to be guilty by association..it is our human nature to judge others by their cover..regardless of how assassanine and mindless it may seem, we all do it on a daily basis...
--with out giveing to much info away about my line of work--
regardless of your intentions..you made the decision to get mixed up in this.. now you have to face the consiquences of your decision.
Sorry about your friends, but I have to agree with banning whole clans.
My main is a fully legit maestro. I have spent months soloing in the Ketra camp trying to fill my book with S armor recipes. My clanmates buy their S armor from the farmers. I suspect the payment is sometimes in dollars.
The very existance of the farmers effects my game play to the core. The quest for S recipes should be a clan effort, not a goal for a solo maestro.
There are several S weapons in our clan, but only mine is crafted by me (on 2nd try). Despite the fact that I paid 180 million adena for those recipes, and I craft in alliance for free, people would rather go to the farmers for a sure thing.
The very idea of joining a farmer clan is abhorant. Their existance goes to the very core of why player competition has been circumvented in many aspects of the game. If the easiest thing for NCSoft to do is ban whole clans then I am for it. If non-farmers are in that clan, then they are indirectly supporting those activities not allowed by the EULA. They are not innocents.
That sucks. We are working hard on Franz to flesh our WSs rec books out... and we always give our first S recs to them. We are working hard to get our WS up and running... and so far we are close to completing the books for 3 maestros. How can your clan let you solo... let alone solo for recs?
But then again... s weapon recs are 10-20 mill each on Franz and is easier for us to pass off.