not what I am saying sch....
we do not summon it - we build it...we are not gifted with magical powers in this game....(i.e. buffs, spells, etc....)
so then what I am saying is why does erase work against a construct?
why did they classify what we build as a summon...
i do not think that it should be classified as such since we contruct it and not summon it.
This is however a good point. If a character able to cast Erase is able to remove a Siege Golem, Hog Cannon or Swoop Cannon in one spell instead of 5 or more players trying to just damage the WarSmiths creation to death, we definatly have an issue.
Then again how many Bishops do you see actually trying to get in range of such devices and more importantly how many could realistically make it that far and get off the Erase cast before they get 2 shotted?
and how many dwarves do you see with the big siege constructs out anymore?
none to very very few...
a - they cost way to much to construct anymore...
b - they can be eliminated with a simple spell...
this is a very unbalanced issue.
if the spell is used to erase a golem, cannon, et all, then that caster should at least have the minimum itmes needed to cunstruct the item in order to erase it....
example: (not accurate - just for posting purposes)
siege golem A: 45 A xtals, 100 A gems needed for cunstruction.
erase spell components should be equal to the above as well.
at the very least, they should be B grade xtals and gems to erase. But non the less, it should cost them the same amount or just under in order to eliminate it.
just a thought there.....
I can understand and agree with your pain. I retired my WS some time ago when it became cheaper and faster to zerg gates and walls with 70+'s then to bother with caring for and appreciating the WS for his unique abality to create siege devices.
This is definatly an issue if true but you're right, these Siege devices werent really being made much anyway anymore due to the cost of them and overall usefullness.
i dont even care if im the defender, i wanna see some siege devices!! and at least 2 out of the three ideas ive seen here (lower cost, better usefulness, or non-erasable) should be put in
for starters i think they fixed the issue with erase working on siege golems
siege golems just arent used anymore because they are useless
i complained about the erase vs construct issue back when they added erase but what i didnt notice was they changed the skill descriptions from "manufactures a mechanic golem" to "summons a mechanic golem"
so there you have it, a new chronicle was added and the next thing you know WS are now summoning stuff
the main issue i have with erase is every class that has the skill is meant to be beaten by the warrior class (dwaves)
btw if you read the skill description for our summons you will see this:
magic creatures
the common name for the boitechnilogical items of the magic and titan ages. their mattack is strong and they sometimes use high-skill magic, such as teleportation
so yeah we no longer craft our golems we summon teleporting nuking cyborgs from the past
lol
then give us other magical abilities such as self buffs..., a magical throwing blunt...a hold spell that gets roots to grab hold of ya from the ground..etc....
if these **** things are now magical in nature then **** well give us other ****e to go along with the magic theme....
:P
i had a greek friend who had a saying that is prolly appropriate here
i dont speak any greek but he tells me it translates as "i must be writing on my balls"
try and think of that saying next time you make any suggestion here man
There is nothing in the description of Erase that suggests that it should work only against magic creatures. Frankly, I think, it's better to work on players, too. Casting them into a random town.
Remember, it is only in NA/EU that this game is sold as a pvp game, in korea its sold as a hardcore grind game with pvp features and RL status boosts (having good gear means you have the money to ebay, meaning you are well off irl)
Around when starcraft became popular and NA/EU kiddies started hearing about the "uber koreans" playing starcraft for money this trend where idolizing korean kids and doing what they did started.
When L2 released alot of people started playing it for the simple fact that "omg the koreans play it, i want to be as uber as they are" while at the same time they adverticed this game as a pvp game because NA/EU are more into griefing each other and getting epeen out of such rather than just gear itself.
Calling a squad of bd/sws/wc/healer/6archers runninig around steamrolling everything for PVP is absolutely laughable
Also, for the last 2 chronicles every game balance change/buff/nerf has been with regards to the olympiad, because this is the prime pvp past time for the koreans, not that they pvp all that much.
Your dwarf will never be useful in pvp. The mere fact that erase actually works on a siege golem is testament to this, the game simply isnt balanced with that in mind. If you want a game where things are reasonably balanced, where 1 class of a role isnt vastly inferior to another (sh vs sps, bd vs sws, etc etc) go play WoW, they have gotten the class balance/usefulness issue down at least (while the rest of the game needs major changes)
i had a greek friend who had a saying that is prolly appropriate here
i dont speak any greek but he tells me it translates as "i must be writing on my balls"
try and think of that saying next time you make any suggestion here man
i thought you were more educated then that nameless...
next time grow up and just not post vice making such a idiotic statement.
my posting was not about pvp issues with the class...we have debated this issue over and over in these forums to no avail.
my posting was to the erase spell and why our golems (siege and mechanical) are a summons and not a construct.
and how this effects game play.
i simply do not agree it should be a summons period. dwarves are given nothing in any magical form, and summons are derived from magic.
simple.
There is nothing in the description of Erase that suggests that it should work only against magic creatures. Frankly, I think, it's better to work on players, too. Casting them into a random town.
There is nothing in the description of Erase that suggests that it should work only against magic creatures. Frankly, I think, it's better to work on players, too. Casting them into a random town.
that would be fun.....:P
Hey that would save me 520a for a Scroll of Escape.
I agree that it's pure sillyness that a mechanical device is now all of a sudden a magically casted (summoned) creature...Sorry dwarves have no magical abilities, they CRAFT things...To unsummon a crafted thing is just impossible...But then again...This is LII and we have seen more of the likes and one doesn't go to change it back to before...In any case...Erase anyone? Free ride to town! :)
Remember, it is only in NA/EU that this game is sold as a pvp game, in korea its sold as a hardcore grind game with pvp features and RL status boosts (having good gear means you have the money to ebay, meaning you are well off irl)
Where did you get this information from as all the info that i have seen about the korean game is that they pvp loads, and ebay little.
Quote:
i had a greek friend who had a saying that is prolly appropriate here
i dont speak any greek but he tells me it translates as "i must be writing on my balls"
try and think of that saying next time you make any suggestion here man
i thought you were more educated then that nameless...
next time grow up and just not post vice making such a idiotic statement.
and my post still stands
you are posting "why?" and the answer is because thats what korea wants
no amount of suggestions or votes will change that fact
Quote:
Remember, it is only in NA/EU that this game is sold as a pvp game, in korea its sold as a hardcore grind game with pvp features and RL status boosts (having good gear means you have the money to ebay, meaning you are well off irl)
Where did you get this information from as all the info that i have seen about the korean game is that they pvp loads, and ebay little.
i had a friend who played on korean servers
pvp happens at sieges, arena and olympiad
they ebay/account share/buy accounts more than we (if thats even possible)
Quote:
i had a greek friend who had a saying that is prolly appropriate here
i dont speak any greek but he tells me it translates as "i must be writing on my balls"
try and think of that saying next time you make any suggestion here man
i thought you were more educated then that nameless...
next time grow up and just not post vice making such a idiotic statement.
and my post still stands
you are posting "why?" and the answer is because thats what korea wants
no amount of suggestions or votes will change that fact
Quote:
Remember, it is only in NA/EU that this game is sold as a pvp game, in korea its sold as a hardcore grind game with pvp features and RL status boosts (having good gear means you have the money to ebay, meaning you are well off irl)
Where did you get this information from as all the info that i have seen about the korean game is that they pvp loads, and ebay little.
i had a friend who played on korean servers
pvp happens at sieges, arena and olympiad
they ebay/account share/buy accounts more than we (if thats even possible)
then if as you say nameless, it is what korea wants, then why do they have the forums anyway.....why do you post your ideas and suggestions....why does anyone then post anything if...as you say...it is what korea wants.
if you offer nothing then the simple answer you provided then do not post on the forums anymore.
People who realize that they will never be heard by the actual devs in korea post here to vent frustration at that very fact probably. For example, did anyone notice that rage no longer increases the damage done by crush of doom??
I still post here because it's a fun past time. : p
By the way, to all the people toting the pseudo-lore about golems being constructs about: As you are no doubt aware, all golems run on a so called 'heartstone', which is arcane in nature. A golem can not move or obey its masters commands without this heart stone, therefore shattering the magic in the heartstone is all it takes to 'Erase' the golem.
simply what i was trying to get - more opinions and ideas or as maline posted...a bit of background or lore to add to it...
i post as well for time passage, but for true imporvements or gripes as well....
maline - where did you get this information from? while i like it, the offset of a simple shatter to erase a golem that costs soo much to make (summmon or build) seems a bit lopsided.
it would seem that one would know about this if building a large golem or a small one and have a defense against it no?
Oh, in terms of balance I'm all with you, Erase is a joke both for healers and summoners and needs to be fixed.
Well, summoners most certainly know about Erase, and you should think that they can fortify their Link against it somehow, but alas, it is not possible. ^_^: That's balance, I suppose.
therefore shattering the magic in the heartstone is all it takes to 'Erase' the golem.
so to erase a siegegolem you really should have to cast erase on the dwarf itself, who could be protected by his alliance behind the archer line for example, as oposed to disintegrating a 50 foot tall metal monster with a simple incantation
Or the casting speed of erase should be the same as the summoning skill casting speed. In the case of the warsmith, it means few minutes to erase its summon, far enough for the ally to kill the healer/buffer.
Ok, that's maybe too much... but even at 50% of the summoning time, it sounds pretty good imo.
then if as you say nameless, it is what korea wants, then why do they have the forums anyway.....why do you post your ideas and suggestions....why does anyone then post anything if...as you say...it is what korea wants.
that there is a good question but you can bet that any post i make in the "suggestions" forum is not because i think it will ever be implemented
People who realize that they will never be heard by the actual devs in korea post here to vent frustration at that very fact probably. For example, did anyone notice that rage no longer increases the damage done by crush of doom??
good :P im all for more destro nerfs
unfortunately i'd say thats a bug man since rage increases pattack and crush of doom damage is increased by pattack :/
go report it
By the way, to all the people toting the pseudo-lore about golems being constructs about: As you are no doubt aware, all golems run on a so called 'heartstone', which is arcane in nature. A golem can not move or obey its masters commands without this heart stone, therefore shattering the magic in the heartstone is all it takes to 'Erase' the golem.
dorf village gk quest if im not mistaken
not really relevant since the description of erase is "sends your enemies servitor into another dimension" so weither or not a golem is magic or mechanical description of erase > description of golem
as far as i know all siege golems are immune to erase
i remember mistiryl making a post about it and saying if you can erase one it should be considered a bug and reported
if it is a servitor just the same as the small mechanical golem, then why the disparity between the two?
and to offer some insite to you namless, i do not expect an implimintaion of any ideas that i post either...they are simply suggestions or topics of discussion...
that being said, if a topic has merit, there is a small (allbiet a very small one) chance that a forum moderator or some other person may approch the topic with nc as one of merit and to be looked into.
one will never know unless one speaks.
and to offer some insite to you namless, i do not expect an implimintaion of any ideas that i post either...they are simply suggestions or topics of discussion...
that being said, if a topic has merit, there is a small (allbiet a very small one) chance that a forum moderator or some other person may approch the topic with nc as one of merit and to be looked into.
one will never know unless one speaks.
yeah cant hurt to try i guess
i got no idea why its only for siege golems but the massive summon cost combined with the rediculous summon time would make it really hurt if one was erased
the argument i hear for why our normal golems are erasable is "well its ok cause once its erased you still have all your powerful dorf skills"
as apposed to summoners who have a fair bit less pattack than us (although they can resummon in about half the time we do and can rebuff their summon)
The heart stone is in the golem, not with the owner. I'd assume that the physical shape doesn't get sent back, but whatever essence heartstones/crystal link/reanimation/whateveritisDAsdo was tied to its master.
By the way, to all the people toting the pseudo-lore about golems being constructs about: As you are no doubt aware, all golems run on a so called 'heartstone', which is arcane in nature. A golem can not move or obey its masters commands without this heart stone, therefore shattering the magic in the heartstone is all it takes to 'Erase' the golem.
According to its description, Erase doesn't "shatter" anything. It's a teleport skill.
If you take the description to be literal and think of it as a teleportatoin skill, then it doesn't matter what the servitor is ... and it should work on players.
However, considering the summoner lore, you'll realise that summoners (and actually pet owners as well) work on calling things through from another dimension, and that the things being sent back there more likely than not means that whatever binds them to Aden is severed (i.e. crystal link for summoners).
Quote:
By the way, to all the people toting the pseudo-lore about golems being constructs about: As you are no doubt aware, all golems run on a so called 'heartstone', which is arcane in nature. A golem can not move or obey its masters commands without this heart stone, therefore shattering the magic in the heartstone is all it takes to 'Erase' the golem.
According to its description, Erase doesn't "shatter" anything. It's a teleport skill.
yeah an my point was it doesnt really matter if the golem is magical with a magical heart gem thingie, mechanical or a choc covered candy treat
fact is golems are servitors and the skill decription of erase reads "sends enemies servitor to another dimension"
debating if erase should work according to lore is kinda a moot point
only thing left is to debate if it should work on golems according to game balance
If you take the description to be literal and think of it as a teleportatoin skill, then it doesn't matter what the servitor is ... and it should work on players.
As well as on mobs. No XP or clan points should be given, though.
i would like to say that if the earse spell has (supposed to have) no effect on a siege golem, then it should have no effect on a mechanical golem.
sends vs. casts out
construct vs. summon
as you can see - disparity between words can have different meaning to people depending on the use.
nameless - you say you have approached the difference of construct vice summons - is there a link available or is it too far in the depths of the forums to be able to read?
I am also curious, and will look into more information as to why a golem has been classified as a summons and not a construct, but it may be moot if you have reaserched and approched the topic.
nameless - you say you have approached the difference of construct vice summons - is there a link available or is it too far in the depths of the forums to be able to read?
I am also curious, and will look into more information as to why a golem has been classified as a summons and not a construct, but it may be moot if you have reaserched and approched the topic.
not sure if i understand what you mean
if you mean "how do i know its a summon and not a construct" you can see that in the skill description for all golems, i still remember when the description said something like "manufactures a mechanic golem to assist the crafter"
the second NC added erase the description read "summons a mechanic golem"
if you open up your status bar when you have the golem targeted and hover over the descrition it now reads something like "a magical creature summoned from the titan age capable of high magic sometimes includeing teleportation!"
before NC added erase that read something like "construct. mechanical being"
Since we're on the topic of Erase and its abality to cast away summons, could it be used on a, oh lets say Strider pet (mounted or not) or Wyvern (hopefully yes with the castle owner mounted!) and would any one like to test it with me :)
nameless - you say you have approached the difference of construct vice summons - is there a link available or is it too far in the depths of the forums to be able to read?
I am also curious, and will look into more information as to why a golem has been classified as a summons and not a construct, but it may be moot if you have reaserched and approched the topic.
not sure if i understand what you mean
if you mean "how do i know its a summon and not a construct" you can see that in the skill description for all golems, i still remember when the description said something like "manufactures a mechanic golem to assist the crafter"
the second NC added erase the description read "summons a mechanic golem"
if you open up your status bar when you have the golem targeted and hover over the descrition it now reads something like "a magical creature summoned from the titan age capable of high magic sometimes includeing teleportation!"
before NC added erase that read something like "construct. mechanical being"
i was refering to a forum you said you had initiated regarding the difference.
but if nc has changed the wording to better suit the 'summon' catagory, then it may be mute to ask for a link.
Since we're on the topic of Erase and its abality to cast away summons, could it be used on a, oh lets say Strider pet (mounted or not) or Wyvern (hopefully yes with the castle owner mounted!) and would any one like to test it with me :)
ooooo to funny....but i bet since they are 'pets' and not summons, it will not work.
and on that - off topic yes - why cant then the new golem have a target system to target the wyvren and the rider?
i am really curious why Mistryl has not aided in our quest for an answer here...
why was the original definition changed from manufacture, contructs, etc...to summon?
why is it that siege golems are exempt, but not our beloved mechanical golem?
Ok, the only difference i really see here is that even having his construct erased a dorf still able of deal some dmg. Anyone can tell me what a summoner can do without his summon? Die? Throw himself from a bridge? Comm'on i'm opened to sugestions.
and my post still stands
you are posting "why?" and the answer is because thats what korea wants
no amount of suggestions or votes will change that fact
Koreans beat us by 1000 korean players to 1 NA player
so what they want stands
we are the MINORITY
and as longs as we will be considered as such
Americans and Europeans will have NOTHING to say in this game!
Ok, the only difference i really see here is that even having his construct erased a dorf still able of deal some dmg. Anyone can tell me what a summoner can do without his summon? Die? Throw himself from a bridge? Comm'on i'm opened to sugestions.
Summoners used to be not so defenseless as long as they was able to use a bow
But seemingly this is exactly why they nerfed it
the overpowered of being able to use 2 weapons
and to be able to shackle, btw if a summoner uses duals
he's still pretty lethal if he got mp to heal himself
and for golems, as long as the golem is not plus 3 or higher
u can almost compare it to a lvl 40 player
death in 3 or 4 strikes, even from a healer class
in fact summoners and dwarves are exact opposites
for summoners their summon tanks for them
for dwarves, dwarves tank for their summon
Ok, the only difference i really see here is that even having his construct erased a dorf still able of deal some dmg. Anyone can tell me what a summoner can do without his summon? Die? Throw himself from a bridge? Comm'on i'm opened to sugestions.
Summoners used to be not so defenseless as long as they was able to use a bow
But seemingly this is exactly why they nerfed it
the overpowered of being able to use 2 weapons
and to be able to shackle, btw if a summoner uses duals
he's still pretty lethal if he got mp to heal himself
and for golems, as long as the golem is not plus 3 or higher
u can almost compare it to a lvl 40 player
death in 3 or 4 strikes, even from a healer class
in fact summoners and dwarves are exact opposites
for summoners their summon tanks for them
for dwarves, dwarves tank for their summon
eh?
where you getting this information?
my golem....when not erased....has never been able to kill in 3 or 4 hits.
what levels are talking about then?
are you factoring in buffs, tats, jewls?
lol that was half of the siege force lol
little overkill :)
the range... is like 1200 i think, none were erased, none of the dwarves were killed.... lots of people to through before the dwarves :)
Ok, the only difference i really see here is that even having his construct erased a dorf still able of deal some dmg. Anyone can tell me what a summoner can do without his summon? Die? Throw himself from a bridge? Comm'on i'm opened to sugestions.
ok for starters keep in mind the whole of L2 is based around the olympiad
in olympiad +0 erase is a 90-95% land rate against my +2 golem (i made it +2 in case it helped resist, it didnt :/ )
apart from the fact the summoner will start the match with full buffs for their summon and they can resummon quicker than a ws and rebuff they also have self buffs (albeit not very impressive ones)
try and keep in mind that in the NCsoft leet pvp triangle WS should beat all healers and summoners should lose to all healers
and yet erase has what? 3x the land rate on a golem then on a true summon?
eh?
where you getting this information?
my golem....when not erased....has never been able to kill in 3 or 4 hits.
what levels are talking about then?
are you factoring in buffs, tats, jewls?
lvl 78 golem will get 2 hit by an equal lvl equal buffed archer or dagger (both fully buffed guaranteed 1 hit from a crit)
glads can 1 hit it if they crit tss
FFS dorfs can 4 hit it!!!! useing armor crush, earthquake, whirlwind, hammer crush combo (and thats if no skills crit and armor crush doesnt land)
and yet we have no way to heal or buff the thing lol
and btw at +1 all summons gain an increase in stats but NCsoft changed the way enchants work for summons so the next increase is at +9 (+1 - +8 are exactly the same)
and again i ask....where is mistryl on this?
why did our golem become a summons?
is it just to apease the other class so they can earse one of the few things a dwarf has going for them?
why the disparity from a siege golem to a mech golem?
was really hoping you could have offered insight, but again....deaf ears prevail....or ignore the problem and it will go away....
and again i ask....where is mistryl on this?
why did our golem become a summons?
is it just to apease the other class so they can earse one of the few things a dwarf has going for them?
why the disparity from a siege golem to a mech golem?
was really hoping you could have offered insight, but again....deaf ears prevail....or ignore the problem and it will go away....
NA has very little (prolly nothing) to do with the development of L2
if you want answers you basically have to learn to read and write korean :/