1/4 death with pvp war, and then with clan luck, there is a bonus to death %loss and then 50% ch res
0.3% with pvp war and clan luck?
before interlude i would lose 0.7% in pvp, and with ch res it would be 0.35%
1/4 death with pvp war, and then with clan luck, there is a bonus to death %loss and then 50% ch res
0.3% with pvp war and clan luck?
before interlude i would lose 0.7% in pvp, and with ch res it would be 0.35%
Hurray for Clan luck! ^^ Let me tell you it works great, really takes the pain out of death. I suggest all lvl 76+ join a clan with this skill. ;)
i call bull****e on this added feature....
while i know it is a pain in the [censored] to get back any % at that level, i do not agree with the discounted percentage loss.
you die you die - y should there be a disparity from a certain lvl and another in % loss...
it smells of favortism for higher classes and leaves those below the line left in the ****e pile...
the best action would have been to alter the % for all levels then...not just the ones above the cut off.
Yeah, there was a design for decreasing exp penalty (let someone who just lost luck die) for higher levels, but it was cut off at the 4% mark for some reason.
% to level is all relative anyway....
it is expected that you should understand that if you die it will take some time to gain back any and all xp you lost as a consequence for dying, regardless of level.
why should the players below the cut off be forced to gain a full death penalty of xp back and those above not?
that is the favortism right there.
the death penalties are becoming more lax as time goes on in this game.
do you know that at lvl 10 you lose like 10% +-?
and there are consequences for dying at my lvl, its 22mil xp (was 88 before), its 5*more than 75lvl but we dont get 5*more xp etc, so we pay much more for dying than anyone else
your logic is totaly flawed, and you would talk totaly different if you would be higherlvl
It is their full death penalty now - it' snot like eveyrone else takes 4% every time (I think I still take slightly more at 5x, not sure).
Please have a look at all numbers present before talking.
The penalty exists, it is infinitely harsher at higher levels, and even as someone who will never see these levels, it is not a problem for me to understand that there needed to be a fix to them taking the same %age loss as lowbies.
first - i am high enough level that i know how it feels...
second...you can call numbers all you want....i simply said % loss is relative to level....
the more you have invested, the more you should expect to lose.
how is it fair that a person at a lower level...maybe not a full time or as active player as others has to recoup more just becuase he is below the cut off?
they as well as you, put time into the character for whatever reason. to say that their time is less important or less valuable is favortism for the higher levels.
it is kinda like protecting an investment. you should try not to die as you know your loss will be exponential to your level....therefore require more from you to get it back.
similar to a monetary investment...the more you invest with, the more you know you can lose...its a known risk.
while 22 to 88 is a help to you, it screams too much of a help in my opinion.
and yes, i do understand the motive behind the implimentation, i just do not agree with it.
first - i am high enough level that i know how it feels...
second...you can call numbers all you want....i simply said % loss is relative to level....
the more you have invested, the more you should expect to lose.
how is it fair that a person at a lower level...maybe not a full time or as active player as others has to recoup more just becuase he is below the cut off?
they as well as you, put time into the character for whatever reason. to say that their time is less important or less valuable is favortism for the higher levels.
it is kinda like protecting an investment. you should try not to die as you know your loss will be exponential to your level....therefore require more from you to get it back.
similar to a monetary investment...the more you invest with, the more you know you can lose...its a known risk.
while 22 to 88 is a help to you, it screams too much of a help in my opinion.
and yes, i do understand the motive behind the implimentation, i just do not agree with it.
If you find that the low level characters are done wrong by this then I would suggest that you should 4 times in a row to ease your mind.
first - i am high enough level that i know how it feels...
second...you can call numbers all you want....i simply said % loss is relative to level....
the more you have invested, the more you should expect to lose.
how is it fair that a person at a lower level...maybe not a full time or as active player as others has to recoup more just becuase he is below the cut off?
they as well as you, put time into the character for whatever reason. to say that their time is less important or less valuable is favortism for the higher levels.
it is kinda like protecting an investment. you should try not to die as you know your loss will be exponential to your level....therefore require more from you to get it back.
similar to a monetary investment...the more you invest with, the more you know you can lose...its a known risk.
while 22 to 88 is a help to you, it screams too much of a help in my opinion.
and yes, i do understand the motive behind the implimentation, i just do not agree with it.
If you find that the low level characters are done wrong by this then I would suggest that you should 4 times in a row to ease your mind.
i think i will stick with Nya and Maline for invigorating oratory (via forum posting of course) debates.
but thx.
first - i am high enough level that i know how it feels...
second...you can call numbers all you want....i simply said % loss is relative to level....
the more you have invested, the more you should expect to lose.
how is it fair that a person at a lower level...maybe not a full time or as active player as others has to recoup more just becuase he is below the cut off?
they as well as you, put time into the character for whatever reason. to say that their time is less important or less valuable is favortism for the higher levels.
But... even with this new death penalty... high levels DO lose much more than low levels >.<
I seriously do not know what you are talking about...
Do you know how long it takes to get back 4% at lvl 75 and 1% at lvl 80? It takes far, far, far longer to get back the 1% at lvl 80...
With the new death penalty, very high lvl players only need far more time than lower levels to get back the exp. With the old death penalty, it would have taken incredibly far more time.
You need to ignore the % number and instead look at the number of exp you lose on death. And even with the new penalty, players lose more exp the higher level they are...
I do not have the exp totals for lvl 79 and 80, but it should be dramatically more, like nearly twice the previous level each time. Even with the new death penalties, 76+ players still lose more exp when they die than another player one or more levels lower.
Regardless of level, you should feel death is a penalty. If death still subtracts millions of exp at 76+ then dying IS a penalty.
The % is inconsequential.
A straight % would be relatively more damaging to higher level players than lower players--in fact, it would be unfairly so.
There is nothing magical about 4% at lower levels, or the 10+ % you lose initially.
I don't see anything wrong with varied % losses on death related to levels.
High level players earn some amazing benefits--but I suppose it could be argued they have accomplished some amazing things in-game and have earned those perks.
As for % exp loss--that's not an issue for me. The higher level players have earned their exp and making someone regain 22 million exp or some such for a death is out of proportion to what is fair. NO ONE should have to go through that.
Regardless of level, you should feel death is a penalty. If death still subtracts millions of exp at 76+ then dying IS a penalty.
The % is inconsequential.
QFT.
Also, note that at high levels, it was (I'm not sure if it still is) always worth it to wait for a BRez over even a bishop or EE res, never mind releasing to town. The staggering SS/elixir/whatever cost for just gaining back the % often exceeded (exceed?) the cost of the scroll.
a billionare has more to lose then a milllionare.
and a millionare has more to lose then a thousandare (is there such a word?)
they all invest the same amount relative to status....
bilionare - 50,000
millionare - 5,000
thousandare - 500
person x offers the following:
100% return if all goes well.
50% loss if it fails.
all have invested the same amount relative to status - all are offered the same return relative to status - and all are aware of loss relative to status.
thus - as i said - level to loss is all relative.
in reference to L2 to levy against the above you get:
better skills for a higher level, better stats for a higher level, usually you will be pve'ing in a place that offers a better return in adena and mats for your level, and i am sure while the xp may not be great by any means, you are getting xp relative to level as well.
i am sure you would not deisre to go to the marsh lands and try to level your 78 XXX. you would go to a place that would maximize the benefits for your toon.
same goes for a lvl 44 XXX. they would as well find a place to maximize the benfits for the level. i do not think they would desire to go to dino island as that would be a continual loss and a known loss if they did....
i guess my view is far from the others....while i do see what you say, most of you have based it by numbers in place of an overall view. this is why i see favortism in this, and why i stayed away from numbers until this post.
you get benefits fitting your level because you put the time into it. but so does the lower level person as well. just his benefits and skills and such are fitting for his level as yours are for yours.
but then in there lies the aspect of loss and relative aspects.
the more you have, the more you stand to lose.
the less you have, the less you stand to lose.
but it is all relative to what you have.
EXP isn't measured up against 'how much you have' but 'how fast you can get it back'. And a level 79 sure as hell can't get exp five times as fast as a level 76.
You posted numbers in your bilionare example, so here are the numbers for L2 example.
I get 15k xp per mob, lvl 75 gets in average party 10k per mob.
So i get 1.5* xp than 75lvl, fine.
Than I die, I lose 88mil xp, lvl 75 lose 4mil xp.
So i lose 22* more xp than 75lvl.
Your bilionare's benefits are same % as his possible loses.
My benefits are 14.7 times worse than my possible loses.
EXP isn't measured up against 'how much you have' but 'how fast you can get it back'. And a level 79 sure as hell can't get exp five times as fast as a level 76.
Exactly - since at 74 or 75, you usually kill the exact same mobs you kill at 79 or 80. Simply because by then you have reached the "high end" mobs, and there is nowhere else to go. The only differences in exp speed are due to better equipment, which is not a level based thing but more about luck/money-making ability, and of course it matters if you are lucky enough to have a nice party with high level buffs or not.
So you get nearly the same amount of exp/hour - same mobs, but you kill a bit faster - but it translates into less % per hour.
That's why death penalty should not be relative to what you have, but relative to how fast you can get it back. There is nothing wrong with a NG player spending 10k on soulshots while a S grade player spends 1m during the same time - the S grade player will get the money back in the same time via adena and mats drops and via quest rewards. But when one player (say, a lvl 60 one) needs one buff round to get a 4% exp loss back and another player (say, a lvl 80 one) needs several evenings of playing in good parties to do the same, something is wrong. And that is why I think this new death penalty is a Good Thing.
im killing the exact same mobs at my lvl as i did at lvl 70
i would take 5 4% deaths at 70 before i would take a 1% loss now
**** i can still rememeber getting nearly 3% a buff round :/
that is why i did not want to post numbers in the first place....you all are are into the numbers game way too much.
its is simple....
as a high level toon, you should stand to lose more when you die vice a lower level toon.
thus the penalty for being a high level toon.
as a high level toon, you have better stats, spells, abilities, etc...
thus the benefit of being a high level toon.
you all started the numbers game, of which has truley zero bearing in the overall picture...you choose to focus on just numbers to validate your staements....which i do see how the range from level to level increases....but again, yur a high level, there in lies the reason.
but i will digress to a degree that there is a stopping point at xp gain per mob killed - thus i see the point of the implimintation....i just still dont agree with it considering they have stated that dino island is for the high level toons to gain xp....(and no i have not been there yet)
but again - a disparity of levels....you as a high level toon get to exlpore dino island with the knowledge that you are safer then a lower level toon who desires to do the same.
to a lower level toon, it is prob instant death vice a high level toon. how is it fair then that as a lower level toon one can not enjoy the game in a new area just becuase of levels?
i will also agree that the time invested in comparison to lower levels in greater as well, but it was the price you knew you would have to pay if you died....
3 bedroom house - lvl 80
2 bedroom house - lvl 70
1 bedroom house - lvl 60
they are all destroyed at the same time.
common sense tells you that if construction started at the same time that the 1 bedroom would be completed and replaced before the other two. again - a longer time to rebuild is the price you pay for having a larger house.
so as i simply stated before - loss is all relative to level.
as a high level toon, you should stand to lose more when you die vice a lower level toon.
This is true. But 1% for a level 78 is more than 4% for a level 75. Therefore, your condition is fulfilled. The rest is your false fixation on the percentage number.
YOU have the fixation on the (no less wrong) number, so don't accuse others of it.
as a high level toon, you should stand to lose more when you die vice a lower level toon.
This is true. But 1% for a level 78 is more than 4% for a level 75. Therefore, your condition is fulfilled. The rest is your false fixation on the percentage number.
YOU have the fixation on the (no less wrong) number, so don't accuse others of it.
as it should since you are a higher level toon. i see you did not reference the benefits associated with being higher level as well.
and to put to rest for the following:
i never stated (or fixated) numbers regarding 1%, 4% etc.... other posters did...i stayed away from that aspect cause i knew the numbers game would be a focus for a few....
my statment was and is - % of loss is all relative to level.
i do understand where you all are coming from in respect to numbers...i just do not think it is fair as i stated before.
so i ask this since more than one person posted about it.
when does xp output hit the peak? what is the highest level mob in comparison to the highest level toon? and i am asking for pve references as in xp grounds, not raid bosses and such.
i.e - does xp stop at mob level 75, or are there higher level mobs that offer more xp per kill?
that is why i did not want to post numbers in the first place....you all are are into the numbers game way too much.
its is simple....
as a high level toon, you should stand to lose more when you die vice a lower level toon.
thus the penalty for being a high level toon.
as a high level toon, you have better stats, spells, abilities, etc...
thus the benefit of being a high level toon.
and we still do
1% at lvl 78 is still a much higher xp loss than 4% at lvl 75
remember man im a dorf like you, hard to believe but i dont have amazing stats or skill abilities even though i am high lvl
seriously i still consider hammer crush to be my main pvp skill
as far as pvp abilities go a lvl 70 archer > lvl 80 WS and yet a lvl 70 archer will get more xp per hour (more xp not more %, big difference between the two)
so i ask this since more than one person posted about it.
when does xp output hit the peak? what is the highest level mob in comparison to the highest level toon? and i am asking for pve references as in xp grounds, not raid bosses and such.
i.e - does xp stop at mob level 75, or are there higher level mobs that offer more xp per kill?
you really have to see the barren wasteland that is the 70+ solo grind to appreciate it but i am killing exactly the same mobs now as i was at lvl 70
sure the kill speed is abit faster but when you get 10k xp at 70 and 10k xp 5 or 10 lvls later but require 5 or 10x more xp it just doesnt add up
I actually mentioned the benefit elsewhere - but the benefit is not larger by the magnitude by which the loss was larger. I'm not sure if it's more appropriate now, but it was beyond excessive before.
does xp stop at mob level 75, or are there higher level mobs that offer more xp per kill?
Of course there are, mobs go as high as lvl 81/82 (they were even higher but Interlude reduced levels on some mobs). But you have to understand that people do not kill mobs of the level they are themselves, people of low/mid 70s already DO kill the highest level mobs when they party. So when you arrive at lvl 78+, you still kill the same mobs you killed a few levels earlier, just a bit faster due to skills/equipment. Single hp mobs stop at about lvl 75, though - so if you want to solo beyond that, you have to kill x2 hp mobs at the very least.
All this talk of % this and % is pointless. I agree with emo, why should lvl 75+ have to spend more time getting XP back when dying. You grind ure *** off to get that lvl only to get screwed if u die? Sorry buts thats harsh and if any of u had the same lvl toon ud agree with him. Flame away...
BotKiller - the point of Level-based gaming is that you have to grind. The grind is monotanous, not difficult. It is not "difficult" to get to 7x, just long drawn out and boring :)
Don't overexagerate, that's so silly (Lol). You know better. A high level using no BRez (i.e. not spending 1-1.2mil every time they die) can mitigate their XP loss down extremely far. A level 50 cannot do that, or did they start handing out free BRezes. High levels make far more cash from hunting than the averate mid-level toon (proportional to their level) who cannot afford to dedicate a PC to Lineage II.
Overexagerating anything anyone says will not change that.
Don't overexagerate, that's so silly (Lol). You know better. A high level using no BRez (i.e. not spending 1-1.2mil every time they die) can mitigate their XP loss down extremely far. A level 50 cannot do that, or did they start handing out free BRezes. High levels make far more cash from hunting than the averate mid-level toon (proportional to their level) who cannot afford to dedicate a PC to Lineage II.
Overexagerating anything anyone says will not change that.
cost me more money to get 1% than what a brez costs me
if i didnt have clan hall rez every single one of my pvps i lost would end with me brezing myself
A high level goes cheaper using the BRez because actually losing the exp back would cost him so much - that tells you something about who invests what in their death.
BotKiller - the point of Level-based gaming is that you have to grind. The grind is monotanous, not difficult. It is not "difficult" to get to 7x, just long drawn out and boring :)
Understand what ure saying, but again its time. Isnt difficult for sum1 who plays 8hrs a day. Some 1 who plays 8hrs a week might disagree :)