Spellhowler @ B grade & A grade

Good morning all.

Well my Spellhowler hit 52 last night. Very happy.
On to my questions, I been using the clan armor and clan weapon all this time. ( very much thank to my clan for the help )So now is time to get my own armor and weapon. Can you guys help me on was best for a Spellhowler at B grade & A Grade. What dyes should I be use at this lev?

Also, I would like to star soling at this lev. I been party with clan and leveling a SE on the weekends. So is time for me to leave the nets and solo. Can you guys help on the best spot for a Spellhowler with a out of party SE (LEV58)?

Thank you

Demon for b-grade and DC for a-grade. Weapon try and get the highest oed Homu sword you can afford for now.

I'd agree with demon OR avadon for casting spd.

DC at A. acumen weapons always

+4 Int -4 Men
+4 Wit -4 Men
+4 Con -4 (or 5) Str

SHs never need demon.... especially if you have empower (including lvl 1). You can make due with karmian/avadon and a +3 homu all the way to 61. Just get the best acumen weapon you can afford. If you can two shot in Valley of Saints with what you have (weapons+buffs), then you're good to go all the way up to 67+.

I used demon set and +3 homu until A-grade, occasionally using avadons if needed. Personally I wouldn't invest too much on an OE homu, as you most likely can get a sword of valhalla a lot cheaper(craft it!). Shot expenses are about the same using C or B, maybe a little more expensive with B. If your clan has a high enough lvl warsmith, you can get the shots pretty cheap with a little bit of effort. Though if you get a sov, you can carry a LOT more shots and thus can go on grinding for a longer period of time without need of resupply, as each nuke takes only 1 shot instead of 3. Tattoos as mentioned above, -5 STR to get it cheaper and you have absolutely no use for STR anyways.

C grade Demon with its -270 HP, -1 WIT, lower MP bonus and low P def is not worth holding on to that + 4 INT once elligable for B grade especially if like you said, you want to solo.

Once 52 consider a full Zubie set and you'll find the 10% M atk bonus from it is nearly the same damage as you had with the Demon and you'll also have 100 more bonus MP no HP loss (from the Demon set) no casting speed loss (from the Demon set) 30 or more P def and hell it just looks great!

Downside of Zubie? Slower mana regen but if you are soloing the Herbs dropped from non group designed mobs will more then negate this quickly.

Weapon for B grade? I'll agree with the SoV its excellent and affordable and also satisfies the eyes in visual appeal.

Get a SoV and Demon set and go to the cemetary.

B Grade = Avadon + SoValhalla or Wizard Tear with Acumen.
(ideally)
Frankly, given the ease of finding SoValhalla, I'd say skip the OE'd homunk unless you already have one.

Dark elves should be investing ALL possible stat pushing into cast speed.
Matk is a massively weak stat and Dark Elves already hit like a truck. The ONLY time pushing MAtk makes sense is if you can kill somewhere in 1-hit less.
Cast speed allows you to better take advantage of the DE's massive mana regen capabilities. The more cast speed, the more and easier your B2M gets... and the more mana you can pump out and turn into XP as well.

HP herbs drop like water... so the more you can B2M the better...

was the best Leveling spot ? from 52 t0 61?

Thalenduros has it down. Ignore everyone else... especially people still hung up on SoV. There are more acumen weapons out now... not that you need them. You can still 2 shot with a +3 Homu... the only thing that changes is how soon you get to valley of saints. As far as demon/ zubei goes... never consider it. There are no advantages to doing more damage. It all boils down to who you can 1 shot, or who you can 2 shot. If you can one shot regular hp mobs, you're better off moving to a higher level area anyways.... and beyond VOS.... there is no better place to level.

The ONLY time pushing MAtk makes sense is if you can kill somewhere in 1-hit less.

This should be framed and pinned somewhere for all SHs and Necros to read. : p

Thalenduros has it down. Ignore everyone else...

Yeah because everyone elses ways just dont work at all I guess and probably didnt help them level their SH's at all.

More then one way to skin a cat brother, let him decide what he can afford and which method will work for him based on our experiances/methods.

Who cares if it works? You can wear divine set and +4 Dual Spirit*Spirit swords and make it work. The man wants suggestions from experianced players... and I'm sorry, but some of your suggestions are completely worthless. Though.. yours was especially bad. Mana regen, hp, and def are all non issue. /walk (clear mind passive) and b2m+heal pots/ corpse drain keeps you up indefinately if you're in an herbed area. If not... 1 hour before down time (And I say this having leveled an SH to 6x unbuffed, though now I had an SE for Franz). As for hp and def.... if something would take you below say... 30%, odds are that you would have died anyways. SHs have naturally low con/ def... so there is no point fighting it. Being able to claw/ drain fast enough more than compensates for this... so killing/ draining faster will keep you on your feet. Faster cast speed also gives you more body to minds and faster nukes. Cast speed yeilds the most benifits... and if you where a smart player, you would level faster. If you where a smart player, you would never sacrifice all the benifits cast speed gives you for a hand full of useless perks. Demon is a viable set... but never for a Spellhowler. Their cast speed is too slow.... and their int is naturally high. Making their cast speed slower and their int higher is negligible. You don't need it. It doesn't matter what weapon you have... it doesn't matter what exp bonuses you gain access to... you only screw yourself over. As for Zubei... you will never see an experienced player wear it... and it's for a reason. It's the same reason why you will never see an experianced players wear Nightmare robes. In the situations where it would benefit you by taking off 1 nuke from the kill... as I have said before... you would be better off moving to a better area and keeping your cast speed.

And btw, on my newest alt (necro, nearly the same skills, gets less exp due to the lack of an overhit nuke), I went from 40-48 in 3 days 1 shotting the half hp mobs outside of giran/ tanor canyon... and I spent another 7 getting from 48-58 in Valley of Saints. I get 10% exp per buff round now at 58.... but with a Spellhowler I would be getting 2-3% more because of shadow flare. While I was on Spellhowlers I did VoS unbuffed starting at 60. With empower 3... I started at 52. And this was with +3 top weapons for the grade. As of now I can do it from 48 only because of my +11 homunkulus sword... but even if I had a +3... my experience still stands.

I have a lvl 53- festival alt Spellhowler... and if I need to go as far as frapsing the diffrence in exp/ survivability between cast speed and m atk sets I will. It's not a big deal. There is no discussion about it. Cast speed is best... and I will prove it. However... I can't show you zubei robe set because that's the type of item you get if you want crystals... not the type you use. Same goes for Doom Robe set and Nightmare Robe set. It will take entirely too long to find them on my server because people simply do not use them.... and for a reason.

I have to agree, cast speed (in my opinion is key).

I went Avadon for B grade. Now, granted, keep in mind that when I was B grade, weapon SA's didn't exist. However, the cast speed was SO slow that anything slower than what avadon allowed just drove me nuts.

Even now, with DC and an acumen SA, I still use the more powerful casting speed potion when I solo because I feel the speed is too slow.

I also own a Nightmare set (inherited it) and a DC set. I've tried both and though there is greater damage with the Nightmare, it isn't going to make any real difference on mobs you are two shotting anyways.

As far as pvp goes, cast a spell when you are faced with an enemy and you will feel the the time streeetttttchhhh as you watch the animation compared to your enemy. And just hope you don't get interrupted.

A + int tattoo should be enough to add that extra damage.

Now, will a demon set help you if you don't have empower buff? Perhaps. I can see that being an issue. Waste of money to buy the empower scrolls except to have for emergencies. And the higher you go, the more you will rely on at least lvl 1 empower.

But with lvl 1 empower I can two shot all the mobs I need.

Ok Bhodosativa you're absolutly right. There is definatly only one way to level a SH through and beyond B grade and you outlined it perfectly and any suggestions otherwise were (as you said) without a doubt the wrong way (especially mine!) even if they somehow worked and might have been enjoyed.

It's not about what is wrong or right or what works or not - as he explained, it's about what works best. In the case of necros and SHs, that is cast speed.

You can do it differently, but you won't get the same good results. That's all there is to it.

... it's about what works best. In the case of necros and SHs, that is cast speed.

Maline and Sovrath, you're not new and I am not either. I'd agree with you and pretty much already have but keep in mind that "whats best" today isnt what will be best tomorrow or what was best yesterday.

Cast speed for SH's (always was the thing for SS's) is the recent "thing to do" across the board and its great but it wasnt what was "popular" nearly 3 years ago when I made mine and the old forums were riddled with a different kind of talk of "whats best". Back then it was very popular to ride someone for not pushing their strong points, SS's for WIT to increase they're already crazy cast speeds, SH's to increase INT for even more damage, and making a Sorc was a bad idea period.

I passed what worked for me as each of you have done. The OP will make his decision not based on our arguments and saying whos ideas are bad or worse then others, but what he can afford, whats available, what looks best and even what seems popular (good or not) so that he will fit in as a good SH.

I wish him the best, its a fun class!

... it's about what works best. In the case of necros and SHs, that is cast speed.

Maline and Sovrath, you're not new and I am not either. I'd agree with you and pretty much already have but keep in mind that "whats best" today isnt what will be best tomorrow or what was best yesterday.

Cast speed for SH's (always was the thing for SS's) is the recent "thing to do" across the board and its great but it wasnt what was "popular" nearly 3 years ago when I made mine and the old forums were riddled with a different kind of talk of "whats best". Back then it was very popular to ride someone for not pushing their strong points, SS's for WIT to increase they're already crazy cast speeds, SH's to increase INT for even more damage, and making a Sorc was a bad idea period.

I passed what worked for me as each of you have done. The OP will make his decision not based on our arguments and saying whos ideas are bad or worse then others, but what he can afford, whats available, what looks best and even what seems popular (good or not) so that he will fit in as a good SH.

I wish him the best, its a fun class!



That's fine by me.

I don't care what people do. Heck, if you want to max your constitution, go for it. Whatever people want.

However, SH;s can still two shot mobs with karmian, Avadon, DC. but the higher you go you will at least need emp 1 if you are going to get "ok" xp.

If you pvp the speed is important. You might do a bit of extra damage (which of course adds up) but getting interrupted by any other caster is going to be an issue. It just is.

But sure, do what you want and what works for you. I personally can't abide the slow cast speed so I pretty much was always locked into whatever increased that speed.

if the OP doesn't mind that then he might very well like the extra damage. Also, if he doesn't have access to emp 1 then maybe the demon set/Nightmare will be the ticket.

However, the OP asked for opinions and I gave him mine based upon my preferences/experience. Never did I say that it was the end all and be all.

But there are realities. And in pvp, that cast speed is going to be an issue. However, if you are usually in a larger group then that becomes less of an issue since you can work off your team mates.

Heck... since I own both nightmare/DC sets, I will just do screenshots of the damage I do with both and the OP can make up his own mind which might be worth it. I'll do that later, promise.

Ok Bhodosativa you're absolutly right. There is definatly only one way to level a SH through and beyond B grade and you outlined it perfectly and any suggestions otherwise were (as you said) without a doubt the wrong way (especially mine!) even if they somehow worked and might have been enjoyed.

Refute a point before copping out.

Maline and Sovrath, you're not new and I am not either. I'd agree with you and pretty much already have but keep in mind that "whats best" today isnt what will be best tomorrow or what was best yesterday.

What does this have to do with anything? Cast speed has always been the best route.

Cast speed for SH's (always was the thing for SS's) is the recent "thing to do" across the board and its great but it wasnt what was "popular" nearly 3 years ago when I made mine and the old forums were riddled with a different kind of talk of "whats best". Back then it was very popular to ride someone for not pushing their strong points, SS's for WIT to increase they're already crazy cast speeds, SH's to increase INT for even more damage, and making a Sorc was a bad idea period.

It's the same now as it is then. They push both int and wit. The only arguement is whether or not give them +1 wit or go for +4 con. As for the different kinds of talk.. who cares? We have the experiance to answer all the questions now... and all signs point to cast speed. Stop trying to make excuses for your position and start admitting that cast speed is the best way to go.

I passed what worked for me as each of you have done. The OP will make his decision not based on our arguments and saying whos ideas are bad or worse then others, but what he can afford, whats available, what looks best and even what seems popular (good or not) so that he will fit in as a good SH.

Cast speed > all. It's that simple. On Franz... when I first hit 40... I was in Devo set and Mysterious sword Acumen.... and I worked my way from there. I first upgraded to homu via mammon.... and then I worked on karmian set.... and it worked out fine. I had was limited to what I can two shot... but it still worked. There is no reason to consider another route.. because even with devo + mysterious sword (plus emp from my se)... I leveled faster than everyone else. I didn't pick cast speed because it was "the thing to do"... fotm, or otherwise (really, that is a lame cop out)... I did it because it was best. The same went for everyone else. It is because our past experiances with other setups that you will never see anything else on this server.

Not that there is another option for Spellhowlers. Sovrath won't admit it... but I will. When you rack the hours up... if you've played other casters... the need to increase your speed will become palpable.... and with good reason.

Sounds like we are in the same frame of mind Sovrath, I addressed you and Maline directly and left out Bhodosativa because he does have a "This is best Period" mentality. I just dont have anything left to say to him since he is already convinced how its supposed to be.

You're open minded Sovrath and its been awhile since I talked with you in a post (over a year or more actually) and its the same in the end, we both learn and are willing to continue learning, you have my respect for that.

Cast speed for SH's (always was the thing for SS's) is the recent "thing to do" across the board and its great but it wasnt what was "popular" nearly 3 years ago when I made mine and the old forums were riddled with a different kind of talk of "whats best".

3 years ago Demon Set was not an option, unless you were lucky enough to kill the Great Demon King and get the one in a bazillion drop via the wish potion quest. That left Karmian at C grade.

At B grade, again three or so years ago, Avadon or Zubei were the primary options. I know a few who leveled wearing Zubei, but the ones that did typically hunted in groups. No, not kidding. For those that don't know, yes, there was once a time when SH's used to group more than solo play. Surprise, surprise.

But for those of us who soloed waaaaay back then, Avadon always has been and always will be the more ideal option. Once you realize that it's not going to take you any less than 2 spells to kill something, might as well cast them as quickly as possible, regen your mp faster than in Zubei, recycle your spells faster, and move on to the next target. Even the little extra xp that you'd get from using overhits in Zubei wasn't enough to persuade the diehard Avadonophiles. And this was all BEFORE acumen stacked and weapon SA's.

But that said, you are right about one thing: the OP should hunt however he/she prefers. It's their dime. For all we know, he/she may like the thought of watching paint dry in high humidity (the equivalent of watching an SH cast spells in Zubei, as opposed to Avadon).

Sounds like we are in the same frame of mind Sovrath, I addressed you and Maline directly and left out Bhodosativa because he does have a "This is best Period" mentality. I just dont have anything left to say to him since he is already convinced how its supposed to be.

You're open minded Sovrath and its been awhile since I talked with you in a post (over a year or more actually) and its the same in the end, we both learn and are willing to continue learning, you have my respect for that.

:D

Though no matter what you think of Bhodosativa, he has considerable artistic talent (which I hope he uses as a career someday) and I imagine he has an artistic temperament to boot (as many artists do). So you might not enjoy his opinion but there is a lot of significant merit going on there.

Prove me wrong then Stalfos. Stop copping out. Stop trying to prove your superiority. Get back on topic and school me on your method as opposed to mine. Otherwise... stop stroking your ego and admit you are wrong... because you really have nothing else to say here.

:edit:
Here is a gif from the gimp days of Spellhowlers. Anyone who was around for this will know where I am coming from when I harp on the ol cast speed issue. This was a 1v1... before the sleep, cancel, and aura flare nerfs. Before DC set... before I had buffers... before herbs. I think it was before auto SS too.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8294/hatexr6.gif

Small wonder we SHs where affected by nerfs the least.

I think it was before auto SS too.

No, this is after auto SS. The weapons are glowing. High enchant glow came well after auto SS.

But I do remember those days.

Here is a gif from the gimp days of Spellhowlers. Anyone who was around for this will know where I am coming from when I harp on the ol cast speed issue. This was a 1v1... before the sleep, cancel, and aura flare nerfs. Before DC set... before I had buffers... before herbs. I think it was before auto SS too.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8294/hatexr6.gif

Small wonder we SHs where affected by nerfs the least.

****, that cast speed is fast!

Ok, So I won't post pics unless I "need" to but this is what I just got:

I tried DC & NM Set both without any buffs and both with only emp1 and acumen 1. I'm using a +3 SOM with acumen SA. I included the Pdef just for curiosity. All components (I believe) are +3 except both robes are +4 so equal enchants for pdef.

I only attacked Hames Orc Footmen in Blazing Swamp which are also green to me. Level is 76. I used Death spike on the first attack (or twice in one case) and Shadow Flare on the last hit which will explain the difference in xp

DC no buff

3 hits

Damage
1662
1440
2124
10905 xp

m.atk 1090
Casting Spd 620
Pdef 632

Nightmare No buff

2 hits

Damage
1789
2287
8983 xp

m.atk 1263
Casting spd 442
Pdef 620

DC emp 1, acumen 1

2 hits

Damage
2035
2601
10225 xp

M.atk. 1635
Casting Spd 713
Pdef 632

Nightmare emp 1, acumen 1

2 hits

Damage
2197
2807
10905 xp

M.Atk. 1904
Casting Spd. 508
P.def 620

Interesting enough, with the Nightmare set, I tried it unbuffed on one of the Archers at BS and in two hits got it down to a "sliver" of health. So, in the end, you are going to need emp 1 at this lvl no matter what as you are going to find some mobs that you can't two hit.

I realize Demon will give different results but I don't have access to the set.

edit: I'm also going to add that in nightmare, acumen 1 or some sort of casting pot is a must. The cast speed was not tolerable without it. I actually eyed my BSOE when I first started cast in the NM without acu as I thought I might run into trouble!

Instead of a damage/ overhit bonus test, can you do an exp over time (say buffround) test with both setups? I'd try it myself... but like I said... Nightmare Robe sets don't exist here.

As for the buff issue... it takes so little time getting an SE to 52. Why not take a week or 2 to do it? Emp 3 is worth it.

Instead of a damage/ overhit bonus test, can you do an exp over time (say buffround) test with both setups? I'd try it myself... but like I said... Nightmare Robe sets don't exist here.

As for the buff issue... it takes so little time getting an SE to 52. Why not take a week or 2 to do it? Emp 3 is worth it.

Well, that runs into the issue of whether or not people actually want a second account. I was using emp 1/acumen 1 from clan hall buffs.

I will have to revisit the "over time" as tonight I have composing to do. However, my guess is that you will get more xp with the dc. I say that because I am able to, if I'm on my game, get 1% every two buff rounds in BS. After trying the Nightmare I stand by my initial statement that it is just too slow and I would not be able to get that 1%

However, i'll do it tomorrow and post my results.

1st let me thank you all so much for all the comments.

Here my set up after reading this post like 10 times.

Im lev52 with a lev58 Se ( out of party )
+11 Homu w/acu
Avadon set w/shield
+4 Int -4 Men
+4 Wit -4 Men
+4 Con -4 (or 5) Str

Not sure what ill get at 61 but for now i am thinking of stay with this set up for a very long time. ( broke now :( )

Thank you all for all your help. I will come back tomorrow an post how i did with the new set up an post the pro! & con!.

Feel free to comment on my set up please.

Go for Tallum Robes if you can afford it. Emp 1 and a +3 Dasparion staff was good enough to two shot for me when I was in Tallum... so your homu ( which is stronger ) and emp 3 will do you just fine. Don't mind the -2 int.... you won't feel a thing. You will appreciate the +2 wit though.

+4 Con -4 (or 5) Str

Yes, use the cheapie dyes and go -5 STR. Use the savings to buy more Fast Cast pots.

Not sure what ill get at 61 but for now i am thinking of stay with this set up for a very long time.

It wasn't until relatively recently that I upgraded from Avadon to Dark Crystal.

Whatever you decide, keep leveling the SE, too. Even with an SH's mana management skills, it's always nice to have that extra recharge... and Wild Magic. It's not a must , but it's nice to have.