Interloud came, but nobody else except us, the players knows it. In WOW when the Burning Crusade came out, a big and heavy full illustrated guide was out in the stores. Why not us? Why NCSOFT does not publish a book like that?
So Spud, u must work in the propaganda department at ncsoft trying to spread that this "interlude" actually added content?
It did nothing for the pvp, it actually made it so farmers can bot under level 40 without getting pked now, it also discouraged us going red.
Yes the disconnect thing is nice, but thats a normal update
They Add, wait for it, One level 76+ Area that gives jack all exp and had little to no decent quests or content, and oh wiat yes they add new A grade weapons... were all s grade like what the hell, oh and they make it super hard to get them yay!!!! good idea!
Oh and wait, lets get rid of hunting areas to add in forts that wont be operational for a year!!! they look out some good areas like the helipad in FP for example.
In short: This wasnt an expansion, it was a simple small update, oh and you could fit that all into 10 pages with advertisements on it.
There is a Prima guide, but since drop rates on things change and what mobs drop change and skills change and classes change almost every 6 months, it is rather inpraticle to publish a guide that will basically be obsolete in 6 months.
obviously everyone went red on level 40- bots. obviously those that did were all 76+ in full S grade with nowhere to hunt and nothing better to do.
try something else than pvp in lineage2, youll find you really are jaded.
things got harder in interlude; pve, pvp, and fishing, and raiding, and end game content.
regardless of the new skills, it is far harder to play this game THAN EVER BEFORE.
o rly? ya rly!
the hit to crit damage makes it so. now even with herbs, and augmented weapons, youll never hit so hard again. not with a million passives for bonus.
this affects pve and pvp obviously.
the power of some skills has benn boosted beyond belief with SS doing the BSPS thing for most of the c5 and existing skills of tanks, tyrants, glads, and daggers.
now we have fear, now we have SEALS THAT WORK...
yes, OL seals work a LOT better in pvp now.
head accessories boosted the fishing market profits over 50x since c5. and anyone can make that coin.
forts arent useless :) great hideouts for reds now. i am a red and i use one to hide in. later on, most of those fortresses which are cluttered in hills and things will prove invaluable for SMALL clans to take part in large scale pvp. sure, right now, they sit on the map useless. but if youve ever actually LOOKED at any of the detail put into those things, you would be amazed.
hm. now mobs are harder to pole; broken game? nope. harder game. now you gotta know who your tank friends are as well as who your healer friends are. the mobs are smarter and a bit tougher than before for that reason.
mobs that can only be killed while they are channeled ... hmmm sounds like one hella hard exp spot. not for the bot groups. kinda like swamp of screams. frelling hard to effectively do anything in.
interlude may have been small, i will grant you, but it has brought enormous difficulty to the game again.
wtb enchanted MM skill, wtb refined MM dagger, lol can you spell balance? i think so. its called ENCHANTED SANDBOMB.
Why do you start every post with an insult of the person you are replying to? Do you feel that this will convince more people to your point of view?
I can tell that you play Lineage2 with a passion and that you are committed to the game and have substantial experience in it. This is true of most of the other people here on the boards. We discuss here to try to make the game better and to also derive pleasure from the game during non play time (sometimes referred to as "work"). The boards are a cooperative effort best approached with a midset of courtesy and collegiality.
Please allow me to encourage you to be pleasant and civil and not to insult other posters. I think you will get your points across better and also make the boards a better experience for us all.
So Spud, u must work in the propaganda department at ncsoft trying to spread that this "interlude" actually added content?
It did nothing for the pvp, it actually made it so farmers can bot under level 40 without getting pked now, it also discouraged us going red.
Yes the disconnect thing is nice, but thats a normal update
They Add, wait for it, One level 76+ Area that gives jack all exp and had little to no decent quests or content, and oh wiat yes they add new A grade weapons... were all s grade like what the hell, oh and they make it super hard to get them yay!!!! good idea!
Oh and wait, lets get rid of hunting areas to add in forts that wont be operational for a year!!! they look out some good areas like the helipad in FP for example.
In short: This wasnt an expansion, it was a simple small update, oh and you could fit that all into 10 pages with advertisements on it.
obviously everyone went red on level 40- bots. obviously those that did were all 76+ in full S grade with nowhere to hunt and nothing better to do.
try something else than pvp in lineage2, youll find you really are jaded.
things got harder in interlude; pve, pvp, and fishing, and raiding, and end game content.
regardless of the new skills, it is far harder to play this game THAN EVER BEFORE.
o rly? ya rly!
the hit to crit damage makes it so. now even with herbs, and augmented weapons, youll never hit so hard again. not with a million passives for bonus.
this affects pve and pvp obviously.
the power of some skills has benn boosted beyond belief with SS doing the BSPS thing for most of the c5 and existing skills of tanks, tyrants, glads, and daggers.
now we have fear, now we have SEALS THAT WORK...
yes, OL seals work a LOT better in pvp now.
head accessories boosted the fishing market profits over 50x since c5. and anyone can make that coin.
forts arent useless great hideouts for reds now. i am a red and i use one to hide in. later on, most of those fortresses which are cluttered in hills and things will prove invaluable for SMALL clans to take part in large scale pvp. sure, right now, they sit on the map useless. but if youve ever actually LOOKED at any of the detail put into those things, you would be amazed.
hm. now mobs are harder to pole; broken game? nope. harder game. now you gotta know who your tank friends are as well as who your healer friends are. the mobs are smarter and a bit tougher than before for that reason.
mobs that can only be killed while they are channeled ... hmmm sounds like one hella hard exp spot. not for the bot groups. kinda like swamp of screams. frelling hard to effectively do anything in.
interlude may have been small, i will grant you, but it has brought enormous difficulty to the game again.
wtb enchanted MM skill, wtb refined MM dagger, lol can you spell balance? i think so. its called ENCHANTED SANDBOMB.
Interlude is going to be listed as one of NCSoft's biggest mistakes yet.
Every previous chronicle has been carefully tailored to provide almost enough content to last the majority of players until the next chronicle is ready for release.
This technique is great or maintaining the player base, or at least keeping a great many long time players interested.
Interlude has no where near 6 months of changes/content in it. In addition to that, there are a handful of big name games that are supposedly hitting the shelf in the fall, oddly right around 6 months from now.
So we have a weak update combined with some hardcore competition on the horizon.
Let's all say it together: OOPS
In an effort to not sound doomy and gloomy, let's hope that the rocket scientists at NCKR have the first throne on the fast track. Because if that thing gets pushed back, even a little bit, it's going to hurt L2 in a big way.
Interlude is going to be listed as one of NCSoft's biggest mistakes yet.
Every previous chronicle has been carefully tailored to provide almost enough content to last the majority of players until the next chronicle is ready for release.
This technique is great or maintaining the player base, or at least keeping a great many long time players interested.
Interlude has no where near 6 months of changes/content in it. In addition to that, there are a handful of big name games that are supposedly hitting the shelf in the fall, oddly right around 6 months from now.
So we have a weak update combined with some hardcore competition on the horizon.
Let's all say it together: OOPS
In an effort to not sound doomy and gloomy, let's hope that the rocket scientists at NCKR have the first throne on the fast track. Because if that thing gets pushed back, even a little bit, it's going to hurt L2 in a big way.
I agree with this too. I think your comments are well-spoken and on the mark.
Just doesn't seem like there's enough in Interlude to illustrate. Some monsters, some bosses, a few weapons. Now, the first Throne? That one looks like it'll be meaty enough to fill a guide. They could just repackage those old art books and sell them through the website, that'd be neat. Or used the C4 and C1 books to fill it out and put in some updated material to stay at least somewhat current.
interlude may have been small, i will grant you, but it has brought enormous difficulty to the game again.
Fantastic, so they didn't give us much in the way of entertainment, but at least they made the game a lot harder?
I am not gonna argue that Interlude added nothing. But I think only an NCsoft loyalist could argue that it added 6 months of exciting content.
A lot of the features are really nice. I actually think the little they did add was really great. But I just don't think grind/PvP being harder, or the fact that I can go red and hide in a fort, is gonna keep me glued to my computer until the next update.
on the contrary. necessity is not the mother of invention; desperation is.
now that the playing field is the same for everyone again (arguably) someone will invent a way to be overpowered. and then all the noobs will reroll, and then we face the next throne.
6 months will blow by so fast you wont even notice it.
noone would buy the illustrated guide thats why. Why buy a guide for a game you know how to play?
For all of you interlude bashers, you list augmentation as a small change. Look at how much it changes things. Oly is not as cookie cutter any more. A titan with root is a scary thing. root + frenzy = you dead. How about a summoner with a root skill? or any mage with bluff? or a dwarf with silence? This update forces players to rethink their strategies in pvp. If you dont see how big these changes are then you are blind.
Every expansion comes with good and bad. I honestly welcome the smaller changes more than I do the larger ones. Changing game dynamics to the point that they did in C3 was insane. They took classes (daggers) who could kill anyone the day before and make them unable to kill even dwarfs. They took places like TOI and made them undesireable when in C2 it was looked at as the new cruma (which they also screwed up). Why welcome expansions that change 60% of gameplay and reject expansions that change only 10%?
interlude may have been small, i will grant you, but it has brought enormous difficulty to the game again.
Fantastic, so they didn't give us much in the way of entertainment, but at least they made the game a lot harder?
I am not gonna argue that Interlude added nothing. But I think only an NCsoft loyalist could argue that it added 6 months of exciting content.
A lot of the features are really nice. I actually think the little they did add was really great. But I just don't think grind/PvP being harder, or the fact that I can go red and hide in a fort, is gonna keep me glued to my computer until the next update.
only true L2 players can appreciate the sadistic grind of L2. I would rather have it be harder to lvl. It keeps people who dont know how to play from being higher lvl.
well if i read is true they are already gonna put c7 (yes screw the new numbering) out in the summer (read prolly end of summer vaction) so this was well jsut a small update to put stuff in place for the hopefully proper update but guess only time will tell
edit new korean c7 interlude site: http://www.lineage2.co.kr/kamael/main.asp click close on the first popup cus its more annoying as anything else for the rest have fun (god i hate flash related junk T_T)
it is a definite possiblity. look at all of the combos you can get. some are very scary. If you think a dwarf with silence is not scary... imagine if he suicide rushed your healer. BTW the silence also effects skills.
only true L2 no-life club can grind as sadistaically as L2 requires. I would rather have it be harder to lvl. It keeps people who would rather play in peace than pvp like madmen from being higher lvl.
corrections in red.
i am low level by choice. not because i cannot grind.
i am also consequently a far richer person for my neutrality and low level. i can actually not care / worry /cry when i die.
every high level i know comes and qq when enemies bsoe, or they themselves die.
it is a definite possiblity. look at all of the combos you can get. some are very scary. If you think a dwarf with silence is not scary... imagine if he suicide rushed your healer. BTW the silence also effects skills.
u might not say that if you looked at all the dwarf threads regarding nerf's and other topics....
no one cares about dwarves aside from players that play them as a main...
that is why i laughed - cause a dwarf would LUV to see any added feature to assist the class....
but again...many a topic has been discussed.
only true L2 no-life club can grind as sadistaically as L2 requires. I would rather have it be harder to lvl. It keeps people who would rather play in peace than pvp like madmen from being higher lvl.
corrections in red.
i am low level by choice. not because i cannot grind.
i am also consequently a far richer person for my neutrality and low level. i can actually not care / worry /cry when i die.
every high level i know comes and qq when enemies bsoe, or they themselves die.
First off, I was agreeing with you that harder is better.
Second, my comment about true L2 players beind sadistic was a joke.
Third, I have no idea what lvl you are nor does it matter.
Finally, dont change my quotes. It isnt what I said or meant.
understand that "the people that dont know how to play" (quote from me) are those that refuse to learn. I have played with BDs that dont dance, SWS that dont sing, buffers that dont buff, healers that dont heal, archers that pull aggro by using a bow in a dungeon and cant figure out why, tanks that dont even know what hate does,... the list goes on and on. Guess what... these people get to high lvls and think they are all that and yet they dont know how to play. I guess what I am trying to say is that the high lvl people should be the ones that know what they are doing.
you can say that "everyone" crys when they die, but thats not true. I died 2 times the other day, getting 20% rezes both times and just laughed on vent. I earned the xp back the next day.
it is a definite possiblity. look at all of the combos you can get. some are very scary. If you think a dwarf with silence is not scary... imagine if he suicide rushed your healer. BTW the silence also effects skills.
u might not say that if you looked at all the dwarf threads regarding nerf's and other topics....
no one cares about dwarves aside from players that play them as a main...
that is why i laughed - cause a dwarf would LUV to see any added feature to assist the class....
but again...many a topic has been discussed.
I wasnt sure if you were saying that because you didnt think it would be scary or if you were saying it as a joke.
Honestly, dwarfs have one huge advantage over any other class. It is called the being underestimated. Dwarfs who subclass have the benefit of people ignoring them. I think that a dwarf that subclasses something like destroyer is more deadly than an actual destroyer. why? because they can uses exactly the same equip as a normal dwarf, have close to the same hp/cp, have some similar skills. When they get low on hp you quickly find out that you totally underestimated them.
Interloud came, but nobody else except us, the players knows it. In WOW when the Burning Crusade came out, a big and heavy full illustrated guide was out in the stores. Why not us? Why NCSOFT does not publish a book like that?
Because Interlude is free (as in zero dollars $0 nothing to pay), because L2 has several patches instead of one bigger expansion, and because with the player database they have in US/EU, they don't want to invest in licence products.
If you want artbooks, figurines, goodies and all, they are in Korea. They'll probably publish something for Chaotic Throne there I guess. Import.
Yeah the guy who started this topic is kind of annoying and I am in no way really backing him up.
Interlude was not the greatest up-date ever. That's for sure. I hated how really the only new skills where 76+ where 80% of the player population will never see them. A few new head accessories... Some new Dino Island thing that I will never visit... yeah, it is a let down.
However, I do love the agumentation system, it is pretty awsome. I am loving how players have a chance to get a totally new random SKILL with a life crystal, one skill that could totally change your play style. If I, as a Phantom Summoner, had access to an AoE wind nuke... The game would be completely different for me. This system has a lot of promise for mixing-up game-play. Yes, skill aguments are rare... but it is such an awsome idea.
So I give Interlude a C+... I don't give a hoot about it save the Agument system and the changes to the way shots effect remote skills.
Interlude was ment to be a bridge between Chaotic Throne anyways, it is not an official Chronicle.
For all of you interlude bashers, you list augmentation as a small change. Look at how much it changes things. Oly is not as cookie cutter any more. A titan with root is a scary thing. root + frenzy = you dead. How about a summoner with a root skill? or any mage with bluff? or a dwarf with silence? This update forces players to rethink their strategies in pvp. If you dont see how big these changes are then you are blind.
I wouldn't say its a small change, and yeah it certainly has amazing potential. All I'm saying is that its not content that is gonna keep people interested until the next update. It will shake things up, will be a constant source of suprise, and maybe even imbalance (in some instances). But farmers will farm tons of stones, the prices will be reasonable, we will all play around with it, day to day operations will be back to normal in no time.
Fantastic, so they didn't give us much in the way of entertainment, but at least they made the game a lot harder?
I am not gonna argue that Interlude added nothing. But I think only an NCsoft loyalist could argue that it added 6 months of exciting content.
A lot of the features are really nice. I actually think the little they did add was really great. But I just don't think grind/PvP being harder, or the fact that I can go red and hide in a fort, is gonna keep me glued to my computer until the next update.
only true L2 players can appreciate the sadistic grind of L2. I would rather have it be harder to lvl. It keeps people who dont know how to play from being higher lvl.
I don't mind it being hard at all. Thats fine with me. What I was saying is making the game harder doesn't = content. Make the game as hard as you want. But give me some content, something to do.
Castles sat on the map useless for all of Prelude. Are we unhappy they added them?
Well what if they added the new race in the next update, but they weren't playable until the update after that. You could only look at them, and read their lore, maybe see armor models on them. Weither or not we would or would not like the update in the long run is irrelevant. They are giving us functionless content, in an attempt to appease us until they can ACTUALLY give us the content.
I am extremely excited about the fortresses, I was the first time I read about them. But if they won't be seigable till throne 1.....don't realease them till throne 1.
This type of attitude is so typical of the world these days. We no longer even want things immediately, we want them last week.
New areas take time to integrate, start with the actual design/textures, then integrate the pvp battlefield or whatever goes into it. This gives people time to know where they all are so that everyone can be prepared for taking them next. There is no harm in their existence. Would you prefer they not show them to us and simply leave them off the map until next update? That's just silly.
There is lots of content...not stuff we especially are thrilled about, but all things take time to settle in. Be happy we're getting the update along with a glimpse of what's to come. We knew they would integrate other dragons during Prelude, should we have complained that they didn't all come out during C1? It's just childish to complain about something you recieved. You got something and bish that it isn't enough. Asking for more next update is fine, complaining about what you did get...is ******ed.
New areas take time to integrate, start with the actual design/textures, then integrate the pvp battlefield or whatever goes into it. This gives people time to know where they all are so that everyone can be prepared for taking them next. There is no harm in their existence. Would you prefer they not show them to us and simply leave them off the map until next update? That's just silly.
many ppl would because the fortresses have removed their old areas and dont actually do anything
New areas take time to integrate, start with the actual design/textures, then integrate the pvp battlefield or whatever goes into it. This gives people time to know where they all are so that everyone can be prepared for taking them next. There is no harm in their existence. Would you prefer they not show them to us and simply leave them off the map until next update? That's just silly.
many ppl would because the fortresses have removed their old areas and dont actually do anything
And C3 (apparently with acceptable content) didnt screw up leveling areas like TOI and Cruma? If they had added the ability to take these fortresses and you didnt get one, would you be any more satisfied? I would guess not.
And C3 (apparently with acceptable content) didnt screw up leveling areas like TOI and Cruma? If they had added the ability to take these fortresses and you didnt get one, would you be any more satisfied? I would guess not.
wouldnt bother me either way because i dont hunt anywhere that the forts were added
if however they added it in one of the few places i do hunt i would be ******
wouldnt bother me either way because i dont hunt anywhere that the forts were added
if however they added it in one of the few places i do hunt i would be ******
if they were on your hunting grounds and they were fully functional you would be ******?
I'm getting a bit tired of all these "Be happy they even gave us X," comments. I think many people forget too often that we are the ones paying them in the form of monthly subscriptions to give us what we want.
If there are people who say that Interlude doesn't contain enough new content, it should be taken with the greatest amount of consideration on NCSoft's end.
Those who say that Interlude does contain enough new content and that we should be lucky to have even what's new in Interlude should also be heard, but in their case, they're satisfied. It is by no means, however, a portion of their consumer base that NCSoft should point at and rely on to say that they've done enough.
One of the primary goals of any business entity should be to provide ways to satisfy their customers. In the case of those who think that what's in Interlude is enough, NCSoft has accomplished that. But, that doesn't mean that they should have stopped there, because there's a sizeable "other" portion of their customer base whom they haven't satisfied - those who say that Interlude is anemic in its new content.
Once again, we should not be lucky that they gave us what's in Interlude. NCSoft should consider themselves lucky that we're even paying to play their game.
It's been shown time and time again that NCSoft expects our wants and needs to adapt to their game design, when it should be the other way around. It's no coincidence that NCSoft's corporate market value has dropped significantly since WoW was released, and why Lineage 2 is becoming more and more WoW-like with every update - their arrogance in remaining complacent from being the defacto MMO in Korea has cost them billions in the face of a much more customer-oriented company in Blizzard.
And yet, we still have the "Be happy"s who I can only assume have been deprived so much of NCSoft's lack of attention and creative ability that they've forgotten that they're paying NCSoft for something. We are their bosses.
If you run a business, and one of your employees goes all Office Space and doesn't do his/her job sufficiently enough, are you just going to consider yourself lucky that he/she even showed up to work at all?
We're the customers. If we're not happy, they should be listening to us much more than they claim to be doing.
I was paying about $15 a month for the C5 Lineage2 game. I liked playing it a lot, I thought it was a lot of fun, and I spent hours playing it on the days my schedule allowed.
Then they added the Interlude expansion. I still pay the same and I got it for free. I enjoy the game even more. I got something for nothing that made my hobby better.
If I go to a restaurant and buy dinner and they give me a free dessert, I say "Thank you." That doesn't happen often.
If I go to a gas station and buy $10 of gas and they give me another gallon free, I say "Thank you." That doesn't happen often.
If I play my favorite game and I get an expansion free, I say "Thank you. That happens every six months.
I'm getting a bit tired of all these "Be happy they even gave us X," comments. I think many people forget too often that we are the ones paying them in the form of monthly subscriptions to give us what we want.
euh, no. we pay them to play their game. read the license agreement and the eula; both state that everything in lineage2 is proprietary to NCSOFT down to your account and your toons.
If there are people who say that Interlude doesn't contain enough new content, it should be taken with the greatest amount of consideration on NCSoft's end.
because youre playing the ame you designed right? lol
Those who say that Interlude does contain enough new content and that we should be lucky to have even what's new in Interlude should also be heard, but in their case, they're satisfied. It is by no means, however, a portion of their consumer base that NCSoft should point at and rely on to say that they've done enough.
nc has never relied on Korean base for anything more than bug reports.
One of the primary goals of any business entity should be to provide ways to satisfy their customers. In the case of those who think that what's in Interlude is enough, NCSoft has accomplished that. But, that doesn't mean that they should have stopped there, because there's a sizeable "other" portion of their customer base whom they haven't satisfied - those who say that Interlude is anemic in its new content.
theres a difference between Korean and American companies as well as a difference between both of those and Euro companies. for one, Asian companies are led, directed and controlled by a single Head of Operations. everyone from him (or her) down is dispensable and must kiss-***. in the US most larger companies are run by Beaurocracy. a pool of people that decide the motion of the company and look at investors to keep the bottom line up. if that line falls somewhere, you can bet that pool of people will be kissing *** and breaking their own policies to make it back. instert lineage2; thank you hyung tae kim, yessir, mister kim, have a nice day, mister kim. and thats the way its done.
Once again, we should not be lucky that they gave us what's in Interlude. NCSoft should consider themselves lucky that we're even paying to play their game.
is the company you work for just as lucky that you work for them? or are you lucky to receive your pay at the end of the week ? the analogy is the same. without a base there would be no game, without a game there would be no base. welcome to catch 22. hope you enjoy equality between everyone.
It's been shown time and time again that NCSoft expects our wants and needs to adapt to their game design, when it should be the other way around. It's no coincidence that NCSoft's corporate market value has dropped significantly since WoW was released, and why Lineage 2 is becoming more and more WoW-like with every update - their arrogance in remaining complacent from being the defacto MMO in Korea has cost them billions in the face of a much more customer-oriented company in Blizzard.
again two different companies with different ways. should your employer expect you to adapt to your company's newest technology? or should your company be run into the ground because your employees think other technological advancements would be better? you can bet that those guys in Microsoft are NOT looking at apple PC's to dev code on, nor to retrieve market solutions. MS is successful of itself as is Apple. NC is as successful as Blizzard; your viewpoint is skewed.
And yet, we still have the "Be happy"s who I can only assume have been deprived so much of NCSoft's lack of attention and creative ability that they've forgotten that they're paying NCSoft for something. We are their bosses.
do you tell your parents what to do and when to do it? they gave you your house and your life you are by no means their boss. NC is not your son. you are not its owner. you do not say what goes and where. no playerbase ever can in a KOREAN developed system. proof: the Malay company Softnyx recently shut down several of its games. the reasons were simple; they listened to their customers. every single one of which was as haughty and arrogant as we are. "lolz noobs i pwn" attitude destroyed their games.
If you run a business, and one of your employees goes all Office Space and doesn't do his/her job sufficiently enough, are you just going to consider yourself lucky that he/she even showed up to work at all?
in any company if you arent being monitored, chances are youre slacking off. slacking however is not proportional to productivity. every employee knows when to look busy and when to be busy. there is no parallel with Lineage2 nor NC in this argument. NC is not slacking, nor is it pretending to be productive.
We're the customers. If we're not happy, they should be listening to us much more than they claim to be doing.
listening involves silence. NC is very good at keeping quiet. take a hint.
In the case of restaurants, gas, etc. where what you pay for is of limited supply and generally generic in nature, and the satisfaction of which can also be reasonably assumed (I buy dinner at McDonalds, I know that I'll like the BigMac. I buy gas, I know that my car will drive for around X miles depending on average driving conditions and patterns).
In the case of MMOs, where there really is no estimate of "how far it can go," and the resulting experience depends on several factors not limited to what's programmed and designed into the game each update, but at the same time, can be influenced heavily by said programming and design, is it not reasonable to demand that the company making the game address our concerns, especially when our NA concerns are largely ignored?
Would you still pay $15 a month if you've done everything that C5 had to offer, experienced everything that can be experienced?
While interpersonal relations amongst yourself and the rest of the players may keep you around for longer, even that can't keep you around forever, especially if there are newer or better experiences to be had that appeal to those players in other games, therefore pulling away those very players that keep you paying every month, reducing the attraction of staying around in a stale environment.
Furthermore, when NCSoft markets Lineage 2 (rarely as that happens), one of the key advertising points that they make is that we'll get free updates. People buy this game expecting free expansions. It's not "something extra" that's out-of-the-ordinary or special, like a free dessert with your meal. It's what is considered as "part of the total package" that is supposed to differentiate Lineage 2 from other MMOs. As such, many believe that this "part of the total package" is lacking, and we have every right to complain about its inadequecies to those who are supposed to be addressing our demands.
euh, no. we pay them to play their game. read the license agreement and the eula; both state that everything in lineage2 is proprietary to NCSOFT down to your account and your toons.
And using 3rd party programs, RMT, etc. are supposed to result in bannings, but there are still plenty who do both and are still around.
But, that's besides the point. Blizzard has very much the same EULA posted at every log in, yet they acknowledge and address player concerns at a level far beyond what NCSoft is seemingly incapable of doing. When the first guild that tried one of the raid bosses in that game couldn't complete the raid because of a bug, Blizzard had their programmers and design teams get onto their Ventrillo with the guild to figure out the problem, and promptly fixed it as soon as they could narrow the cause down. When there are bugs other technical issues affecting players, Blizzard owns up to it, and assures them that they'll fix it, and they do.
What do we get? "There are no server issues on our end. Must be a problem on your end." "Zaken isn't bugged. Oh wait, a year later, we "realized" that it was, in fact, bugged, and fixed it, only for the same bug to reappear at the next expansion at Valakas." "No, the server did not eat your pet. We have no record of you ever having levelled a hatchling to lvl 55 only for it to have fallen through the ground and disappearing forever. Too bad for you."
It's not about what's in the EULA or not - it's realizing that your company even has a roof because players are paying to play, and that you **** well better care about them if you expect to keep that roof up there.
because youre playing the ame you designed right? lol
No, because we're paying them to design game concepts that interest us.
nc has never relied on Korean base for anything more than bug reports.
I don't think that you understood what I was saying with what you quoted. Either that, or I don't understand what you're getting at here.
But, aside from that, NCSoft makes changes to Lineage 2 almost entirely according to what the Korean playerbase wants, especially in terms of class balancing and the more important concepts for this supposedly pvp-centric game. The more superficial things seem to be more open to non-Korean suggestion, but I think this quote explains it all:
"Hello Darkmotion! This feature has not been requested by Korean players. But we don't see any problem adding this system. We'll consider it. :)"
theres a difference between Korean and American companies as well as a difference between both of those and Euro companies. for one, Asian companies are led, directed and controlled by a single Head of Operations. everyone from him (or her) down is dispensable and must kiss-***. in the US most larger companies are run by Beaurocracy. a pool of people that decide the motion of the company and look at investors to keep the bottom line up. if that line falls somewhere, you can bet that pool of people will be kissing *** and breaking their own policies to make it back. instert lineage2; thank you hyung tae kim, yessir, mister kim, have a nice day, mister kim. and thats the way its done.
I know how businesses are run over there, even the large corporations. But, I really couldn't give a rat's *** about it.
If you bought a car and a month later, it falls apart, and you go back to the dealership from which you bought the car and demand an explanation, are you going to be ok with the dealership saying that "that's how cars are made and how long they're expected to last in Botslovia?"
NCSoft is doing business in NA, Europe, Korea, and a host of other countries. Are you really telling me that it's ok for them to operate their international business and design their product only for Korea? It's BA101 that you have to market, develop, and design your products/services with respect to each of the territories in which it will be sold.
Regardless, if you haven't noticed it yet, NCSoft is apparently waking up to that fact (albeit very slowly).
is the company you work for just as lucky that you work for them? or are you lucky to receive your pay at the end of the week ? the analogy is the same. without a base there would be no game, without a game there would be no base. welcome to catch 22. hope you enjoy equality between everyone.
The difference is, we don't need them nearly as much as they need us. There are plenty of other MMOs out there who provide much better customer support and true international consideration when developing their games' content. If everyone stopped paying for NCSoft games, what would we do instead? Play another game? Watch TV? Go out and have a few drinks with some friends? What would NCSoft do? Go out of business.
Up until recently, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 were arguably the only game in town in Korea. Now that WoW's out there and a host of other games, NCSoft's market value plummetted, and Lineage 2 is starting to appear more and more like WoW with every patch.
What this says is that NCSoft finally realized that they couldn't just put something out and people would eat it up because NCSoft knew their market - the only reason why they did that in the first place was because there weren't very good alternatives.
And it also shows that NCSoft didn't have nearly as accurate of a picture of their target market (the MMO audience) as they thought they did, as they failed to anticipate the movements of the market with the failure of several other NCSoft games.
again two different companies with different ways. should your employer expect you to adapt to your company's newest technology? or should your company be run into the ground because your employees think other technological advancements would be better? you can bet that those guys in Microsoft are NOT looking at apple PC's to dev code on, nor to retrieve market solutions. MS is successful of itself as is Apple. NC is as successful as Blizzard; your viewpoint is skewed.
And NCSoft's "way" was killing them, and NCSoft is apparently taking a much more Blizzard-like approach to Lineage 2 with all the WoW-ish things that have leaked into the game since then.
And to answer your question, it's simple: The boss (us) makes the decisions and expects them to be followed. If the employees (NCSoft) refuse, they get fired and replaced with people (other MMO developers) who are more compliant (WoW, Age of Conan, etc.).
My viewpoint has the luxury of being unbridled by rose-tinted glasses.
do you tell your parents what to do and when to do it? they gave you your house and your life you are by no means their boss. NC is not your son. you are not its owner. you do not say what goes and where. no playerbase ever can in a KOREAN developed system. proof: the Malay company Softnyx recently shut down several of its games. the reasons were simple; they listened to their customers. every single one of which was as haughty and arrogant as we are. "lolz noobs i pwn" attitude destroyed their games.
No, I don't tell my parents what to do. They used to pay me to go to school in the form of tuition, spending money, etc., and that's exactly what I did. If I didn't do that, I would have had to get a job instead, as they wouldn't have paid for my living expenses.
NCSoft isn't my son, and no, I'm not technically their boss (nothing on my desk labels me as "CEO of NCSoft, Inc."). But, their shareholders are definitely their boss. If I owned a single share of NCSoft's stock, I would, in fact, be their boss - they would have to answer to me why people aren't playing their game as much as before.
But, of course, in light of NCSoft's recent troubles and knowledge of what's going on in their flagship franchise, this potential investor's forecast of NCSoft's financials isn't looking so bright. Then, NCSoft's investors (again, their bosses) would have to ask why NCSoft can't attract this potential investor and others to buy NCSoft stock.
And the answer is because I'm not happy with their game and the non-direction it's taking, and I could easily see that many others in the same demographic, NCSoft's target market, feel the same way, too.
So, NCSoft has to find ways to please me and the rest of the people who share the same view, which was covered in the previous post. And that gives us power over them through NCSoft's investors.
in any company if you arent being monitored, chances are youre slacking off. slacking however is not proportional to productivity. every employee knows when to look busy and when to be busy. there is no parallel with Lineage2 nor NC in this argument. NC is not slacking, nor is it pretending to be productive.
You missed the point in what you quoted, but the point you made deserves addressing as well.
I'm sure that according to NCSoft's standards, they aren't slacking. I mean, who would ever come into a press room and outright say "Hey, we're slacking. Cya all later after lunch!"
But, that doesn't matter at all. The end result is that whatever they're working on isn't here already - that Interlude didn't include enough new, interesting things. I don't care if they're working day and night to get those things out. It still doesn't change how Interlude doesn't contain enough new things with which to play around.
listening involves silence. NC is very good at keeping quiet. take a hint.
If their results ever really provided reason to have faith in NCSoft, then maybe I would give them the benefit of the doubt. You seem to be keeping silent well enough for us both and getting the shaft end of the developers' efforts. Keep it up, ok?
It looks like you are more complaining about customer service of NCNA rather than talking about interlude. I could be wrong. Thats just too much to read without forgetting half of it.
I apologize about the length, but as you may or may not have read, the guy/girl already apparently misunderstood a couple things in my previous post. The things we're talking about really can't be relegated to simple one-liners without some ideas and concepts integral to the discussion being left out.
Suffice it to say that what I'm talking about is specifically about Interlude and its lack of new content, but other points have trickled in that contribute to or illustrate the discussion re: my problem with Interlude.
My original post was in support of another poster who said that he/she didn't think that Interlude had enough new content. Others criticized his/her position, basically saying "You're lucky you got even that much." I defended him/her and his/her position, and now I suppose I'm defending myself and my own position now. :D
let me put this as simply as i can, and use your own words as i do;
this is a hardcore game. this isnt "if you don't like x, well, maybe you can suggest a better way that would make it easier for everyone" game.
by your own standard, NC has fallen short of all your expectations and by all rights can be fired.
i expect nothing less.
if you stay in lineage2 either youre a bad employer, or you recognize there is more to this game than simply a teeny update every few months for some shiny head accessory.
remember the threads asking for a double xp/sp/adena event like guild wars had; in that thread were some NC rep posts iirc. some of them were along the lines in rebuttal of "this event would be inappropriate for lineage2 due to its nature"
i can fish out that post if you like.
wowfied? the devs dont seem to think so. they maintain it is a hardcore game and stick to their guns by introducing NON GAMEBREAKING weapons/armors/skills etc. they did a skills and class analysis when C5 first came out; they noticed Archers were phoenominal classes so something was added. they KNOWINGLY make the game as crazy as it is.
you bought this car, and it aint broke by the dealer's estimation. it runs rather smoothly. smooth running cars can be re-sold so return for a refund where applicable.
i understand every word you posted and i think all too well; but posts and threads that openly flame NC / the game itself for having/doing something within its own standard procedure, i cannot abide by. especially ones that openly accuse without basis of fact or assumption.
telling me NC makes 1/3rd of its money from north america is barely a statistic worth using 2 quarters later. and it is used to flame NC hipocritically.
the hipocrisy starts with "NC is disrespectin me" and ends with the poster disrespectin NC. those kind of people require an immediate logic-check.
The trends are quite clear with the last 3 updates where they're taking this game. You speak as though NCSoft isn't changing anything from its previous "hardcore" game design.
Drop anything at all lately after a mob has killed you? When you're in the Rift, do you even have to worry about someone you're at war with coming to kill you? And even if you're not in the Rift, I'm sure there's no scroll of some kind to escape getting killed, is there? Even the territory name splashing across your screen and buff durations are superficial WoW-ish additions to the L2 "evolution."
The problem is, they've been following WoW's examples wherever it doesn't help things, oftentimes injecting those concepts to the detriment of what was good in Lineage 2.
FYI, I already have cancelled my account (voting with my dollar, I suppose), and the only reason I reactivated it was to see if anything worthwhile was coming in Interlude. There isn't.
Non-gamebreaking weapons/armors/skills/etc.? Bows with Focus, Hero weapons (Cancel Stick), Hero Skills (Hero Fear), Boss Jewels, CoV, Vortexes?
If you're saying that the devs came and balanced all this crap out, I'd really like to see you roll up a Dwarf, a tank, or any other melee, form up a party with similar classes, and try to take down a perfect archer party. I really wonder what server you play on, because unless you haven't seen highest-level pvp play out (in any respective chronicle), you should already know that there never was anything remotely close to "balance" in terms of gear, classes, and overall pvp ability since maybe Prelude outside of the Olympiad, which itself becomes imbalanced when boss jewels are added into the mix.
The problem is that while you might believe we should take whatever NCSoft gives to us happily, others' concept of reasonable expectation for our money could demand more than yours. And that's what you're trying to debate with me now - that I shouldn't have this high of expectation, as if I don't have the right to do so as a customer. And that's something that I cannot abide by.
And I suppose you're right - I shouldn't have this high of expectations since NCSoft apparently can't deliver upon that which other MMO developers can, seemingly with ease. Thus, I cancelled my subscription after waiting since OB on promises that the devs actually listen to the NA market in a good-faith effort to deliver what we want from Lineage 2, and that our suggestions do manifest into things that are put into the game, even when it conflicts with Korean feedback.
No where did I say that NCSoft makes 1/3 of their money from NA, and NCSoft is subject to my opinion as I am someone whom they would gladly enjoy having as a paying customer (not hard to fit that description, but whatever).
You may be happy driving around in a car that is barely running on 4 wheels, but I am by no means bound to your concept of fair exchange and support. To assume so - Now, that would require a logic check.
you expect everyone at high level to have a fair playingfield; pve and pvp wise.
a reasonable expectation, but as harsh as it may sound, not even warcraft delivers an even playingfield at end game.
the reason? simple combinations and permutations. the game of numbers is far more easily played by those that understand how to use them to kill you. who figured out that dance of medusa could take down antharas? whoever it was, did it of desperation. same deal for dwarves; who figured out that dwarven summons were far superior to summoner summons in a pvp open field? the ones trying to create balance given their tools.
anyone can make an archer and a prophet, box them to 78 and own everyone with S gear.
anyone can make a nuker and do the same.
thats the beaurty of the end game "brokenness". there are so many of each one, that "extra" support or ortherwise of anything are invaulable and most pheared in end game.
you make it sound like the heros are broken; you need to learn how to fight them properly; on their own turf. heros arent always heros. if they were you can bet its a small dead clan occupying the end game of your server. heros are supposed to be overpowered. thats what makes them heros. otherwise they are just noblesse.
i will be blunt as you are leaving; the game aint broke, you just suck.
Whether I suck or not, I guess that's just up to someone's opinion.
But, if you base your opinion of whether or not someone sucks upon their ability to compete against an alliance that can bring 30 heroes to a fight, I guess we all suck under those conditions.
What you're not realizing is that there's a breaking point in Lineage 2 where any amount of real skill and sound decision-making will be overcome by these imbalances that you're downplaying, unless you embrace these imbalances as your own by exploiting them as well (rolling up an FotM, or riding the continued archer train).
For instance, you claim that Dwarf summons are far superior than Summoner summons. Maybe if you take the Summoner out of the equation, the Dwarf summon (mechanical golem, not even going to mention big boom) will win vs. the other summon. But, if it's Dwarf + mechanical golem vs. Summoner + summon, if both sides are out to kill each other, and not just get away alive, the Dwarf is toast.
I realize that even WoW is imbalanced on a class vs. class basis, but not to Lineage 2's extent. Even though WoW's Warlocks, Druids, and Paladins are overpowered at the moment (and in the next patch, Paladins and Warlocks will be nerfed), it's not nearly as broken as L2's "be an archer or a nuker, or you're dead" syndrome.
And you bring up the example that anyone can roll up an S-grade archer with relative ease and own everyone. While that's a simplification of the process, it's telling when someone can do that and achieve a certain amount of success doing exactly that.
Combine all the imbalanced gear, the imbalanced skills, the imbalanced levelling grind, and I'm surprised that you can still consider the game not "broken."
If the "extra" that you're speaking of is anyone who isn't an archer, nuker, or support class, then what you're talking about is basically numbers, or zerging, which takes no skill whatsoever. And as we can all see by looking at Bartz, zerging doesn't accomplish much at all.
And the "small, dead clan" on my server is Uprising.
But, all this is actually taking us off on a tangent. What I was arguing in the first place, and still continue to do so, is that Interlude doesn't contain enough new content, and it's perfectly within my rights to not just "be happy" with what is in Interlude.
Whether I suck or not, I guess that's just up to someone's opinion.
But, if you base your opinion of whether or not someone sucks upon their ability to compete against an alliance that can bring 30 heroes to a fight, I guess we all suck under those conditions.
What you're not realizing is that there's a breaking point in Lineage 2 where any amount of real skill and sound decision-making will be overcome by these imbalances that you're downplaying, unless you embrace these imbalances as your own by exploiting them as well (rolling up an FotM, or riding the continued archer train).
For instance, you claim that Dwarf summons are far superior than Summoner summons. Maybe if you take the Summoner out of the equation, the Dwarf summon (mechanical golem, not even going to mention big boom) will win vs. the other summon. But, if it's Dwarf + mechanical golem vs. Summoner + summon, if both sides are out to kill each other, and not just get away alive, the Dwarf is toast.
I realize that even WoW is imbalanced on a class vs. class basis, but not to Lineage 2's extent. Even though WoW's Warlocks, Druids, and Paladins are overpowered at the moment (and in the next patch, Paladins and Warlocks will be nerfed), it's not nearly as broken as L2's "be an archer or a nuker, or you're dead" syndrome.
And you bring up the example that anyone can roll up an S-grade archer with relative ease and own everyone. While that's a simplification of the process, it's telling when someone can do that and achieve a certain amount of success doing exactly that.
Combine all the imbalanced gear, the imbalanced skills, the imbalanced levelling grind, and I'm surprised that you can still consider the game not "broken."
If the "extra" that you're speaking of is anyone who isn't an archer, nuker, or support class, then what you're talking about is basically numbers, or zerging, which takes no skill whatsoever. And as we can all see by looking at Bartz, zerging doesn't accomplish much at all.
And the "small, dead clan" on my server is Uprising.
But, all this is actually taking us off on a tangent. What I was arguing in the first place, and still continue to do so, is that Interlude doesn't contain enough new content, and it's perfectly within my rights to not just "be happy" with what is in Interlude.
It is your right to say ncsoft, if you dont give me more content i can enjoy ill leave. It will most likely end with you leaving thou, its NCsoft...
However not all see it that way, for example me. I agree Interlude doesnt change anything drasticly for my lineage2 gaming. But i still consider the game Lineage2 as a whole to be a fantastic game that is well worth my money each month, and since interlude atelast was something better then before imo i continue to play happily enjoying the new stuff i can do and see.
Now when i bought TBC thou... what a letdown. sure it was better, alot of improvements. But dam they made stuff worse too... that was like 35$ and a monthly fee wasted imo.
So i say Blizzard get your [censored] togheter or i wont play your ******ed game anymore.
Its all a mater of taste. IMO the free interlude update is faar better then TBC considering content, changes and PRICE (gotdam EvE and L2 has spoiled me with good expensions for free...).
yet there are like millions of players getting off of WoW each day thinking TBC is worth like their lives.
Saying Interlude added nothing is false, perhaps nothing you like is more appropriate. Or not enough that you like to keep you playing, not even since it even is free compared to other games expensions (that can be better sure, but also worse).
Also, you have to understand that to alot of ppl thinkks having characters that are good at different things is a interesting thing. Some massPvP like gods, some are gods for small fights, some earns cash like mad and so on.
To us the GAME is not broken, its playing pretty fine. Even if there are aspects of the game thats not balanced at all. (To NCsofts defense, they did go in the right direction of boosting melee alot, and making sure archers atleast didnt get more power). This is still just one part of a really big game that isnt all about the fullbuffed archer party being ubeatable, its not like we like it but it doesnt break the game to everyone.
For someone who wants each of the over 20 classes in l2 to be balansed in everything when it comes to different pvp aspects like sieging, group, 1on1. Then i can agree WoW would be a better game. (im not saying the archer parties arent sickly overpowered, i feel the same way. nerf em to hell and balance it up better. Its just its not a breaking point for me)
In the end its all up to ones taste, however it is a fact that interlude added more then just a few things. Even if, to you, half of it was pointless.
I would understand if youd been this angry if youd had to pay for the expension and it didnt live up to your expectations, as i was quite dissapointed in TBC sadly.
I completely agree with Hulk, as a player since Prelude. What some of you ridiculously obvious fanboys (ie spudnik) don't realize, is that as along as this game continues to give subpar gameplay along with subpar customer service, and completely ignores its NA/Euro's customer base wishes, it will die. This is not a doomsday post, but its painfully obvious to me, as a long time player, that this game's population isn't anywhere near what it used to be.
You fail to see that the very game which you defend so blindly is merely a shadow of what it used to be as far as the playerbase goes, and its only getting worse. If you really liked this game, you'd agree with him too, because the only thing that keeps most people in L2 is the graphics and the community. Trust me, as a devoted fanboy, you *want* people to be happy about this game, because you want them to keep playing. So why argue so vehemently against paying customers when they feel that the "free" expansion added very little content to the game? Guess what..they're right.
I, for one, would like this game to last a long time. I love it..however, I'm not blind to its faults. And when something better comes along, I won't have any problem jumping ship, because L2 does not deliver. Its customer service is non existant..as in..there is none..at all. Which is a huge killer for any mmo. The game's balance is shot, the playerbase is dwindling away, and the game is overrun with automated parties of adena collecting unmentionables. All the while the NA/Euro playerbase is largely ignored. Add all that together with "updates" that add very little content and those of us that aren't blindly argumentative can see why people like the OP and Hulk post what they post.
In the end, there's nothing in this game to keep players here when new stuff comes, and that should worry you, instead of so arrogantly defending everything about the game.
Yes, HulkMad, L2 might not be for you. It isn't designed for the broad MMORGH audience, it is a nich game for highly skilled hardcore players.
Perhaps you and I can play a game of checkers some day?
Well, hardcore players, I dont know about the highly skilled part, most of the high end players I now have used illegal means to get there. There are a few that are legit, but most accounts are tainted with multiple violations of the eula, but NC Soft dosnt care.
Yes, HulkMad, L2 might not be for you. It isn't designed for the broad MMORGH audience, it is a nich game for highly skilled hardcore players.
Don't even go there with that nonsense. There's nothing "hardcore" about lineage except the xp grind. There's very little skill involved in this game. Gear and levels define everything.
I completely agree with Hulk, as a player since Prelude. What some of you ridiculously obvious fanboys (ie spudnik) don't realize, is that as along as this game continues to give subpar gameplay along with subpar customer service, and completely ignores its NA/Euro's customer base wishes, it will die. This is not a doomsday post, but its painfully obvious to me, as a long time player, that this game's population isn't anywhere near what it used to be.
You fail to see that the very game which you defend so blindly is merely a shadow of what it used to be as far as the playerbase goes, and its only getting worse. If you really liked this game, you'd agree with him too, because the only thing that keeps most people in L2 is the graphics and the community. Trust me, as a devoted fanboy, you *want* people to be happy about this game, because you want them to keep playing. So why argue so vehemently against paying customers when they feel that the "free" expansion added very little content to the game? Guess what..they're right.
I, for one, would like this game to last a long time. I love it..however, I'm not blind to its faults. And when something better comes along, I won't have any problem jumping ship, because L2 does not deliver. Its customer service is non existant..as in..there is none..at all. Which is a huge killer for any mmo. The game's balance is shot, the playerbase is dwindling away, and the game is overrun with automated parties of adena collecting unmentionables. All the while the NA/Euro playerbase is largely ignored. Add all that together with "updates" that add very little content and those of us that aren't blindly argumentative can see why people like the OP and Hulk post what they post.
In the end, there's nothing in this game to keep players here when new stuff comes, and that should worry you, instead of so arrogantly defending everything about the game.
I agree with this. You can't say that Lineage 2 is even remotely balanced; if you want to have a pvp role at all you need to be an archer or a nuker, it's that simple. Notice that I say role, not be able to kill. Where is our feedback and input on how the game will shape up? It certainly isn't here. It's across the ocean in Korea.
Despite WoW's imbalances, the developers DO in fact respond on their forums, agree when necessary when they see something is overpowered, and try to do their **** best to make it a better game. Can you honestly say that the developers of Lineage 2 are trying their "**** best" to make this a good game? All I see is more and more of my friends rerolling to be a nuker or archer, and the support/melee classes keep dropping like flies.
Out of any online game I've played, I think Lineage II requires least skill. Lineage II is bout its people. I can't see the waning player base (more new people joining our clan than old ones leaving), but that's of course a personal perspective - once you're at a top level, it's obvious that you won't see much of the new players coming in and will see all of those that are tired and burned out leaving. And of course being as casual as I am, I see more newbies than high levels.
That said, I think the gameplay in all its simplicity is fine (people don't, I hope, play Lineage II for a complex gameplay experience - it's all about the people). The main problem now is the ridiculous damage-output in fully buffed PvP - PvP with prophet buffs is still perfectly enjoyable for all involved, but getting one- or two-shot is hopefully nobody's idea of fun.
Out of any online game I've played, I think Lineage II requires least skill. Lineage II is bout its people. I can't see the waning player base (more new people joining our clan than old ones leaving), but that's of course a personal perspective - once you're at a top level, it's obvious that you won't see much of the new players coming in and will see all of those that are tired and burned out leaving. And of course being as casual as I am, I see more newbies than high levels.
That said, I think the gameplay in all its simplicity is fine (people don't, I hope, play Lineage II for a complex gameplay experience - it's all about the people). The main problem now is the ridiculous damage-output in fully buffed PvP - PvP with prophet buffs is still perfectly enjoyable for all involved, but getting one- or two-shot is hopefully nobody's idea of fun.
A marvelous post, I commend you on your analytical skills.
My girlfriend recently rerolled, and I helped her to level up..to be honest? I didn't see one single new player. I saw a very tiny amount of lvl 20ish types in full top D, which indicates rerolls to me, but other than that, nothing. So I don't see what you see apparently :)
On second thought, I did see a player in low D that was trying to sell some crappy low end recipes, and being so ecstatic that I had indeed found what appeared to be a geniune noob, I bought all of her recipes.
name me a game where any class can beat down any other class in an open environment.
doesnt exist in wow - you gotta flag or roll on a pvp server to do this (no open environment).
doesnt exist anywhere.
imbalanced gameplay is an ideal; nothing, nowhere ever could come close to it.
believe me ive tried. ive looked.
subpar - subpar to what? you expect when i give a hoot that the entire dev team will jump and calm me down? not even in "par" games whatever you think they may be.
healers and support are SUPPOSED to die quickly in lineage2. thats how it has been since FOREVER.
go take your WoW orc shaman wannabe's and augment your weapon. i got a +8 homu, aug'd it and got Shadow Flare.
my SE will level solo now, and i did nothing to change my class. nor did NC.
play the game; youll find there are nuances to everything that cannot go overlooked. simply crying about class nerfs and end game brokenness will get you nowhere. SWG nerfed the hell outta their classes, didnt blink an eye, and people still play. AO did the same, i can list a host of others that regularly do exactly the same thing NCSOFT does to their own games that are still thriving and growing every time a poster is put up.
and yes, i am a fanboy. and yes, i do play mains of dwarves, sorceress, summoners, and healers and the game isnt broken.
know your place, folks. and enjoy it.
in the game of MMO production and maintenance, the customer is NOT always right.
Despite WoW's imbalances, the developers DO in fact respond on their forums, agree when necessary when they see something is overpowered, and try to do their **** best to make it a better game.
You do understand that the forum makes up a minority of the playerbase, right? Generally people who make comments on the forum (not including trolls like me) are coming on to complain. The problem with this is that you get a one sided story. Modifying the game to fit their needs may totally imbalance the gameplay for the other 90% of the playerbase that doesnt come on the forums to complain (because they dont see any problems). At least they listened to their customers right?
Even though WoW's Warlocks, Druids, and Paladins are overpowered at the moment (and in the next patch, Paladins and Warlocks will be nerfed), it's not nearly as broken as L2's "be an archer or a nuker, or you're dead" syndrome.
This is a perfect example of how listening to the minority of the forum can totally screw up game play for the majority. Class X is overpowered lets nerf it. Since the nerf of class X, class Y is now overpowered, lets nerf it. Since the nerf of class Y, class Z is now overpowered, lets nerf it. I feel as though NC is attempting to actually balance it out. Believe it or not the changes in interlude (however small they might be) were an attempt to make things more balanced. Did they solve all of the issues? No. Will they continue to work at it? Yes. Its like driving a car. If you start to skid in you dont want to overcorrect or you will end up worse off.
Look at what happened in C3. In C2 daggers dominated. It didnt matter what lvl of dagger you were, you would own anyone (if you could get to them). In C3, daggers were nerfed to the point of almost being useless in PvP. Many daggers quit the game because they could no longer even defend them selves. I think NC learned from their mistake. Have we seen a nerf to that degree since then? As far as I know, No. Could you imagine how many people would leave the game if Archers / Mages were nerfed that much?
Most say that they want balance and yet they dont see that NC is trying to balance it.
name me a game where any class can beat down any other class in an open environment.
doesnt exist in wow - you gotta flag or roll on a pvp server to do this (no open environment).
doesnt exist anywhere.
imbalanced gameplay is an ideal; nothing, nowhere ever could come close to it.
believe me ive tried. ive looked.
subpar - subpar to what? you expect when i give a hoot that the entire dev team will jump and calm me down? not even in "par" games whatever you think they may be.
healers and support are SUPPOSED to die quickly in lineage2. thats how it has been since FOREVER.
go take your WoW orc shaman wannabe's and augment your weapon. i got a +8 homu, aug'd it and got Shadow Flare.
my SE will level solo now, and i did nothing to change my class. nor did NC.
play the game; youll find there are nuances to everything that cannot go overlooked. simply crying about class nerfs and end game brokenness will get you nowhere. SWG nerfed the hell outta their classes, didnt blink an eye, and people still play. AO did the same, i can list a host of others that regularly do exactly the same thing NCSOFT does to their own games that are still thriving and growing every time a poster is put up.
and yes, i am a fanboy. and yes, i do play mains of dwarves, sorceress, summoners, and healers and the game isnt broken.
know your place, folks. and enjoy it.
in the game of MMO production and maintenance, the customer is NOT always right.
In the case of the lineage 2 forums, Spudnik is NOT always right. Your logic is flawed, providing feedback about broken classes in other games DOES result in changes, in Lineage 2, NADA (unless you're Korean). Whatever the reasons may be, the fact is the majority of players play ranged damage dealers as there is no incentive to play any other class.
OMG woot! Let's play Lineage 2, the only game where you too can 1) Create a character 2) Create a SE to level with it & 3) If you really got money, make a bladedancer too!!! 4) Waste a year and then find out the joy that is the *cough* Olympiad
And before you start foaming at the mouth, yes I too am a Lineage 2 fanboi, it doesn't mean we should take the crap we keep getting shoveled on our plate and eat it; why don't you act like a man and press for change instead of your increasingly hostile posts whenever someone has a productive comment?
Citing other MMOs that have screwed up their customer base and are still going now isn't an example of "the right way to do things." If anything, you should be trying to suggest "What can NC Soft do so that it ISN'T like SWG & AO."
Please, let's look at Anarchy online that is now Free to Play. Woot yea that's a good decision. At last check they had 12k subscribers. Awesome reference Spudnik you win a lot of points for that.
Star Wars Galaxies? Niche community that's already been devastated, population going down every month. Yet another excellent source for NC Soft to aspire to. At least SWG has star wars fanbois keeping it afloat.
Your defeatist attitude really gets old, I suggest you try to improve things instead of continually trashing other players with your nonsense.
Despite WoW's imbalances, the developers DO in fact respond on their forums, agree when necessary when they see something is overpowered, and try to do their **** best to make it a better game.
You do understand that the forum makes up a minority of the playerbase, right? Generally people who make comments on the forum (not including trolls like me) are coming on to complain. The problem with this is that you get a one sided story. Modifying the game to fit their needs may totally imbalance the gameplay for the other 90% of the playerbase that doesnt come on the forums to complain (because they dont see any problems). At least they listened to their customers right?
As I wrote above, I said the developers agree when NECESSARY, not 100%. I have never implied whatever that the forum fan base should decide 100% what happens to a class. I am pointing out, that the devs respond to feedback, not that they are trained monkeys that do whatever they are told.
Even though WoW's Warlocks, Druids, and Paladins are overpowered at the moment (and in the next patch, Paladins and Warlocks will be nerfed), it's not nearly as broken as L2's "be an archer or a nuker, or you're dead" syndrome.
This is a perfect example of how listening to the minority of the forum can totally screw up game play for the majority. Class X is overpowered lets nerf it. Since the nerf of class X, class Y is now overpowered, lets nerf it. Since the nerf of class Y, class Z is now overpowered, lets nerf it. I feel as though NC is attempting to actually balance it out. Believe it or not the changes in interlude (however small they might be) were an attempt to make things more balanced. Did they solve all of the issues? No. Will they continue to work at it? Yes. Its like driving a car. If you start to skid in you dont want to overcorrect or you will end up worse off.
Look at what happened in C3. In C2 daggers dominated. It didnt matter what lvl of dagger you were, you would own anyone (if you could get to them). In C3, daggers were nerfed to the point of almost being useless in PvP. Many daggers quit the game because they could no longer even defend them selves. I think NC learned from their mistake. Have we seen a nerf to that degree since then? As far as I know, No. Could you imagine how many people would leave the game if Archers / Mages were nerfed that much?
Most say that they want balance and yet they dont see that NC is trying to balance it.
Daggers being nerfed by too much is not the fault of the player base. It is the fault of the development team for doing inferior internal testing and having the tendency to adjust skills and say "well we're done! see ya in 6 months for the next update!" I agree in that nerfing archers & nukers would lead to a mass exodus, however, if that is the case then they should work on making support classes and some melee more viable.
Once again, being 2 or 3 shot by someone you can't even get to is no fun. Archers & Nukers should not be the only classes needed for pvp/sieges, but yet, in siege after siege we see archer party after archer party, nuker party after nuker party, and a few human/2boxed buffers to buff them all.
Additionally, you shouldn't have to listen to the minority on the forum when in game you see only a handful of players playing certain class types.
Daggers being nerfed by too much is not the fault of the player base. It is the fault of the development team for doing inferior internal testing and having the tendency to adjust skills and say "well we're done! see ya in 6 months for the next update!"
The overnerf may not have been "caused" by forum complaints, but I am betting it derived from them. I think that NC may have taken too many of the ideas that forum complainers had and implemented them. Did it lack testing? Absolutely.
I did say that I believe that NC has learned from that mistake.
Legitimate complaints and issues are not flames. If I were swearing, drawing ascii birdies, etc, that would be flaming but I've done none of that. I've also tried to be as respectful as possible to the community manager and the staff here. My beef is with NC Korea not NC NA.
But yea, you have the worse attitude :)
An analogy for you: raising your voice to your dog is not the same as beating it. -or-
Scolding your monkey is not the same as spanking it.
I am deleting anything in this thread that might be construed as against the ToS. Spudsies you obviously don't like what I am try to say, so you are trying to get this thread locked. lol
Supporting = quality feedback. There is a lot of good in this thread and it would be a shame if the discussion were discontinued because you only wish to troll.
I saw a very tiny amount of lvl 20ish types in full top D, which indicates rerolls to me, but other than that, nothing. So I don't see what you see apparently
We've a few real newbies in our clan - although 'real newbie' is relative after a few weeks I suppose.
ETA: It doesn't matter whether or not someone else has balance. It matters that L2 doesn't, and that it's getting worse by the thronicle.
Extra archer range. No fix for end game PvP damage, but further nerf for those who can't acquire the full buffsets that makes endgame PvP so broken (why on earth did they nerf the two most common buffs, when they should have been going after the boss jewellery or the cat?). Both elders nerfed further (EEs needed it, but not like this). WCs boosted further. End game summons still not fixed. BHs left out in the cold again while everyone else pulls ahead even more.
I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, too.
In either way, the passive (and unneccessary) nerf is strong in Interlude.
Of course, I will mention the tank nerfs/inability to do anything in pvp.
No tanking of raid bosses anymore for tanks as destroyers fill that role now.
Increase in damage for soul shot skills now but no added defense to keep up with it. (for u warriors, yes i know you should beat tanks that's fine. what about daggers, etc?)
Tanks still unable to tank any full buffed archer/nuker, when they have full buffs in a group/siege pvp setting.
Magic blocking ineffective/debuffs nullify any shield bonus to m.def.
Rechargers cannot receive charges themselves.
Phantom Summoner summon still sucking mana while less powerful than other two summons.
P.def/M.def not scaling to successive increases in P.def/M.def each chronicle.
I dunno I could go on and on and there are tons of threads about all of this.
Of course, I will mention the tank nerfs/inability to do anything in pvp.
nothing new to interlude.
No tanking of raid bosses anymore for tanks as destroyers fill that role now.
again nothing new to interlude.
Increase in damage for soul shot skills now but no added defense to keep up with it. (for u warriors, yes i know you should beat tanks that's fine. what about daggers, etc?)
Guess who else warriors might be able to beat...
Tanks still unable to tank any full buffed archer/nuker, when they have full buffs in a group/siege pvp setting.
nothing new to interlude.
Magic blocking ineffective/debuffs nullify any shield bonus to m.def.
but magic blocking exists now. how is that less balanced?
Rechargers cannot receive charges themselves.
and you think that self recharging wasnt broken?
Phantom Summoner summon still sucking mana while less powerful than other two summons.
how does this make the game less balanced?
P.def/M.def not scaling to successive increases in P.def/M.def each chronicle.
nothing new to interlude.
I dunno I could go on and on and there are tons of threads about all of this.
and yet none of them are causing further balancing issues.
What hope would one have of sticking out with the game of hoping to have more balance in pvp? Shields blocking magic does not cut it. Maybe interlude is .00005% better off but it still hasn't improved much. Only for gladiators and some damage dealers.
What does it matter if it is nothing new for interlude? That just slows how long these problems have been going on. NOTHING NEW. Dude that's awesome too.
Didnt know about this. Could you point me to your source?
No fix for end game PvP damage, but further nerf for those who can't acquire the full buffsets that makes endgame PvP so broken (why on earth did they nerf the two most common buffs, when they should have been going after the boss jewellery or the cat?).
I honestly have not felt much of a difference in DW / DoF. Since archers have the highest pattack in the game they are effected the most.
Both elders nerfed further (EEs needed it, but not like this).
explain.
WCs boosted further.
Maybe so. I havent felt the effects of it yet.
End game summons still not fixed. BHs left out in the cold again while everyone else pulls ahead even more.
no change in interlude does not lead to further balance issues.
What hope would one have of sticking out with the game of hoping to have more balance in pvp? Shields blocking magic does not cut it. Maybe interlude is .00005% better off but it still hasn't improved much. Only for gladiators and some damage dealers.
What does it matter if it is nothing new for interlude? That just slows how long these problems have been going on. NOTHING NEW. Dude that's awesome too.
My question was about how interlude was less balanced than C5 not "what was your wish list for interlude?". I answered your input with my input according to the question I asked.
What hope would one have of sticking out with the game of hoping to have more balance in pvp? Shields blocking magic does not cut it. Maybe interlude is .00005% better off but it still hasn't improved much. Only for gladiators and some damage dealers.
What does it matter if it is nothing new for interlude? That just slows how long these problems have been going on. NOTHING NEW. Dude that's awesome too.
My question was about how interlude was less balanced than C5 not "what was your wish list for interlude?". I answered your input with my input according to the question I asked.
It's subjective and I can see it swinging either way depending on which class you are.
no change in interlude does not lead to further balance issues.
Yes, it does. It means it's another six months before we can find out and hope something got fixed, that should have been fixed a long time ago.
Complain about C5 then.
I didn't want to single out any chronicle, so I'm just lumping everything together :)
This is literally the best time to make suggestions as it is PTS for Korea with Kamael or it will be shortly. IF by some chance something gets looked at over there, they might be able to fix some of these issues while they are working on Kamael. Since we get no opportunity to change things when it is on the PTS here beyond interface/language issues, we need to be proactive in getting change during Korea's pts.
no change in interlude does not lead to further balance issues.
Yes, it does. It means it's another six months before we can find out and hope something got fixed, that should have been fixed a long time ago.
Complain about C5 then.
I didn't want to single out any chronicle, so I'm just lumping everything together :)
This is literally the best time to make suggestions as it is PTS for Korea with Kamael or it will be shortly. IF by some chance something gets looked at over there, they might be able to fix some of these issues while they are working on Kamael. Since we get no opportunity to change things when it is on the PTS here beyond interface/language issues, we need to be proactive in getting change during Korea's pts.
I totally agree. My point is not to discourage people from making suggestions. I am seeing so many posts about how interlude is junk and that its such a waste of time and so on and so forth. The augmentation alone is enough to entertain me for a while. That and working towards getting Dama*Tallum.
Its not that NC didnt add content. Its that they didnt add what YOU (referring to everyone) wanted. Guess what... YOU (referring to everyone again) are not EVERYONE. Those that dont see this go on complaining rather than suggesting.
Funny thing about L2 is you that you have to different pvp balances, which fall under the titles Buffed and Unbuffed.
Buffed - archers are king, followed closely by mages..so much so with these two that the gap between them and the rest of the classes is more like a vast chasm. There is no balance, whatsoever, or even remotely close it it, in full buffed pvp in this game.
Unbuffed? Including shot usage and pots? Pvp between all classes suddenly becomes very close to almost perfectly balanced. I guess by this then we can derive that buffs are the determining cause of un-balance in this game. But then again, most of us already knew this.
There is no balance in this game. there is no customer support. There is no feedback. There is no control of ramptant farmer/bot populations.* Interlude brought very little in the way of content, and still we are no closer to gaining access to the services available to Korean players. If you still cannot understand why customers are complaining, then you are nothing more than sheep.
*(as an aside to this point, I'd like to repost a quote from a Korean player, posted just a few days ago on a different site)
"Korean servers had a HUGE botting problem up until they banned foeign(*cough* chinese *cough*) IP's. Noone will argue that Korean servers were infested with bots, but after the IP ban, and the subsequent 6 or 700 id's getting banned every couple weeks, we really don't have a huge bot population. - Pepper22"
Gee, why can't we get that kind of service? I could come here every day and post several screenshots of different bot parties, but all that would do is get the thread locked/deleted and my hard work would be for nothing, because NC certainly isn't going to do anything about it other than censoring it when we complain about it. /rude
Blind, unwaivering, unquestioning loyalty does not serve L2, or NC soft.
There are so many people who fight tooth and nail to keep L2 imbalanced, keep it contentless, keep it as mind numbing as possible. So they can proudly sport their "hardcore" badge of honor.
I truely understand that some of you don't want people to come to the forums, complain, and change the game fundementaly. I can understand people in L2 not wanting them to make the game a cake walk, make it carebear, or turn it into WoW. I can appreciate that.
But it almost seems L2 people fight to keep the game as broken, and devoid of content as they can. They joyfully chant their favorite mantra "its better than nothing". And they berate anyone who who dares suggest that maybe L2 could be better than it currently is. They defend the most extreme of L2's faults, and tell people to go elsewhere if they can't embrace those faults as well.
Hardcore, doesn't have to mean devoid of fun, balance, content, support, etc.
I totally agree. My point is not to discourage people from making suggestions. I am seeing so many posts about how interlude is junk and that its such a waste of time and so on and so forth. The augmentation alone is enough to entertain me for a while. That and working towards getting Dama*Tallum.
Its not that NC didnt add content. Its that they didnt add what YOU (referring to everyone) wanted. Guess what... YOU (referring to everyone again) are not EVERYONE. Those that dont see this go on complaining rather than suggesting.
I agree with this. I also think that most people would agree there is a definite lack of purpose for many classes in pvp & pve, and we also happen to be the minority. After all of these updates and relatively few changes, the little changes we do get are not ground-breaking or encourage anyone to roll these classes, they just are tidbits to try to keep those players interested in the game.
I believe shield blocking magic was one of those tidbits, but if you look closely at which spells you can and cannot block, you'll find it is lacking quite a lot of functionality and broken in some respects. Now, it may not be broken, but how are we to know? We have asked for clarification on why shields block the spells they do, and there is none. Hence the frustration :)
No change for some classes and positive changes in other classes means further imbalance. Especially if it's something as extreme as the added soulshot damage (what do you think a summoenr will look like now trying to outheal the damage a gladiator can do to its servitor?). Nothing new at all means no balance shift, nothing new for some, means a massive shift.
Extra archer range comes off level 79 or 78 passive (Archery).
If you can't feel the differenc ein DW/DoF you are either not paying attention, or not a class dependant on crits. Please remember that DoF/DW nerfs affect all crit dependant classes, which means that daggers are affected most, and archers second most as far as DPS is concerned - but for every non-archer, the nerf means a drop not just in DPS but in survivability as well (pole armers especially).
Both elders had their infinite mana supply removed, and SEs had their GH nerfed further than it already was. Neither elder can be recharged at raids or in rifts now. The boost to bishops presents a huge passive nerf to both elders as well.
ETA: I don't think L2 needs more content at current. The existing content needs to be revised, straightened out and spiffied up. We don't need a fancy quest system (death of all RP), we just need better quest rewards; we don't need more armours or weapons, we just need a better balance between armor bonuses and SAs - there are many such instances of a good potential with very little realisation.
No change for some classes and positive changes in other classes means further imbalance. Especially if it's something as extreme as the added soulshot damage (what do you think a summoenr will look like now trying to outheal the damage a gladiator can do to its servitor?). Nothing new at all means no balance shift, nothing new for some, means a massive shift.
A glad being able to beat a summoner doesnt make it imbalanced. Look at how many other classes summoners own. Honestly, this is much more balanced. I guarantee that I cant beat a summoner. Self buff or Full buff doesnt matter for my class against summoners. Self buff or Full buff for a Gladdy will make more of a diff. They will be much more equal. How is this bad?
Extra archer range comes off level 79 or 78 passive (Archery).
I had thought that was just pattack. Either way, fair point.
If you can't feel the differenc ein DW/DoF you are either not paying attention, or not a class dependant on crits. Please remember that DoF/DW nerfs affect all crit dependant classes, which means that daggers are affected most, and archers second most as far as DPS is concerned - but for every non-archer, the nerf means a drop not just in DPS but in survivability as well (pole armers especially).
I play a BD. Shouldnt I feel it? I understand your statement of how daggers crit more which means they are effected more, but in end game gear, I would say that nearly every hit from an archer is a crit. Therefore, archers would be hit the hardest by this.
Both elders had their infinite mana supply removed, and SEs had their GH nerfed further than it already was. Neither elder can be recharged at raids or in rifts now. The boost to bishops presents a huge passive nerf to both elders as well.
SEs IMO were overpowered for not being either a full buffer or full healer. They got too many buffs and too many heals. A SE and some GSAP could run a full catacomb party. Why should a buffer / healer be passed over for a hybrid and some pots?
ETA: I don't think L2 needs more content at current. The existing content needs to be revised, straightened out and spiffied up. We don't need a fancy quest system (death of all RP), we just need better quest rewards; we don't need more armours or weapons, we just need a better balance between armor bonuses and SAs - there are many such instances of a good potential with very little realisation.
I agree. I think they are "working" on balancing the game. Things like this do not happen in one swift blow. The smaller the changes the better.