New player feeling lost...

Player Questions Started Last reply 32 posts
I'm a lvl 14 dwarf on the bartz server who has been playing the game over 2 days. Over that time i've met a total of 3 actual players... and with only one of them I had a real conversation. And then there are the bots... Hundreds of bots... it's driving me insane seeing how many there are. Between the bots and the non-existant community I'm feeling as though I've wasted 40 dollars.

Is there any real penalty for botters? Is it part of the game? If so then I'm pulling out now. I hate botters :mad:

Well... Any sort of intelligent response will do. I simply amazed at how this game gets any new customers to stay.
Welcome to L2!!! Really! You'll like the game :)

The first players you'll see probably will be after lvl 20 when you head to gludin/gludio/dion. Dion having the most.

The game is 3+ years old so except for players rerolling alts and a few new players (Great marketing job, there NCSoft) the 'starter areas' have been pretty barren for probably a year or better.

Your post here will get locked if it turns into a bot thread (which it will). They've been reduced a couple of times and then return.
Right around the first of this year thousands of the little snots were eliminated and they've been slowly building back up....BECAUSE YOUR FELLOW PLAYERS CHEAT.

Lol...want to make sure we lay the blame where it belongs!

Anyway, stick with the game till lvl 20..consider rolling an easier toon to level, and expect to meet more folks when you get to Dion (where you will group and join raids and stuff).
You can actually solo lvl 1-20 faster than you can duo/group with players your own level so there isn't much of a penalty for being by yourself.

L2 is a great game, undermarketed, that is mature to the point that the lower player base is pretty small, where bots get wiped from time to time. And it's also beautiful, fun, social, complicated, challenging...etc.

Good luck and welcome.
Just report every1 u see, this is a great game and i agree bots ruin in. But as mentioned if ppl didnt buy adena for r/l cash bots wouldnt be here. lvl to 20, find a friendly clan and they wont seem so bad.
Once you get past lvl 20 and start exploring outside Dion, you'll meet more real players. It's frustrating now for sure, but give it a month before you abondon ship.
On another note how is crafting treated in this game. My first real MMO was FFXI where crafters are the few, and well known. Then I went to WoW where crafters inculde everyone. My question is this: How is the general community of crafting handled? Is it something you can base your gameplay around and achieve a sense of uniqueness? Or is it some generalized activity which everyone can do and isn't held in high esteem.
and please dont make the dwarf your main
go scavenger at 20 but for gods sake re roll a decent class eventually
Crafting is the special focus of the warsmith (dwarf) and to a lesser extent the bounty hunter (dwarf). One crafts, one gathers. It is possible to make good money as a crafter, however, the skills and also if you have a second account that can recharge, greatly increases the money you can make.

For instance, you can craft some soulshots at lvl 20, but a lvl 70 dwarf crafting soulshots will be able to craft a ton more, at a cheaper initial cost since they have access to more capital/items/etc. Additionally, most of the silent playerbase also create soulshots by dwarves, so that market is pretty tough. I am sure you can do it though, it just takes patience.

The hardest part is getting your first D crystals so you can make dss. Also, one town sells soul ore cheaper than the others, it may be Giran, I am not quite sure (might be affected by castle controllers). It is more profitable to buy soul ore from those town shops.
Crafting is limited to dwarves artisans and up only. The problem is dwarves can open craft shops. They work like other shops, i.e. the person gets their material, click on that balloon with text above the person, choose what they want to craft and it is done. So there is no need to talk with the dwarf and ask him to craft his stuff.

There are enough of those in Giran to supply people with the most common stuff.

It is hardly something that will make you stand out from the crowd or make you rich in a short time.
Is crafting Soul Shots the ONLY way to make money? Is it possible to earn a living being commisioned to make weapons or armor for other players?
Soul shots are the easiest way to earn money as far as crafting goes. Because you only need crystals and the ores to craft them.

Equipment is harder because you need key materials to craft them. Getting them as normal drops is hard. With a bounty hunter it is easier to get those key materials. But they have to be near the same level as the mob to spoil it effectively.

No-grade the only recipes that are worth having are the material ones. The rest you can simply ignore as people can buy the equipment from the shop. On D grade people can buy one weapon from the shop and upgrade it through mammon using ancient adena. As for armor thanks to the free armor people can get from clan academy there isn't much demanding. But you can still sell it for those who are clanless or just don't like the looks of the clan oath armor.

On C grade things start to become more interesting. It is too costly to craft top weapons like Samurai Long Sword. And a few pieces of armor like Theca Leather Boots and Gloves can only be crafted. Other armors like Full Plate and Plated Leather can only be crafted.

On B grade and above you can only get equipment by crafting or full drops. Full drops are very rare so people will usually buy it from someone else or try crafting in a craft shop or with a warsmith they know.

If you can earn your living only from craft equipment it will probably be hard as you will need to either have your own bounty hunter to hunt for the key materials or have one as a friend and be sure he is hunting the stuff you need.

Me? I prefer to earn my living selling other stuff and ocasionally shots. I don't have the patience to level a bounty hunter and the ones in my clan are all too high level to spoil the stuff I can craft.

<edited for typos>
It is possible, however, you are unlikely to get good recipes on your own since it is the bounty hunter class that finds those, not a warsmith. If you have a clan or a bounty hunter friend, you can build up your recipe book. You can also obtain a decent amount of recipes just hanging out in a catacomb using a polearm (if you have a buffer/healer).
let me explain why you shouldnt play a crafter at all (forget about one as a main)
at lvl 20 you will be able to craft D grade gear.....
well forget about armor because the true noobs will be wearing academy gear and the alts will be decked out in +6 brig or whatever they have lieing around
forget about crafting weapons because it is cheaper for a player to buy the weapon from the shop and upgrade then for you to make it
you can make SS but if you dont have a second account with a high lvl recharger the profit for time invested will be so small odds are you would make more cash per hour just playing another class

crafters shine at higher lvls (not in my opinion but thats what ppl tell me)
90% of the needed gear these days is A and S grade, you will be able to craft that from lvl 55 and up, but enjoy the competition from other real crafters, souless money makers and the army of crafter alts everyone has
that of course is after you get the recipies which are basically impossible for a ws to farm and cost a fortune to buy

now here is why you should play a scavenger as an alt (forget about as a main they are quite possibly the worst pvp class in game)
the second you get spoil (main skill for scavengers) you will be able to get items that every single person needs at all lvls (base mats)
most of the main stuff you get, key mats and recs will be useless but it will still sell to the shop for abit of extra cash to keep you going
once you have enough cash to support your main dont play the dorf anymore
if you need some extra stuff for crafting just log the dorf and go get it
Lets say I was at the top levels. Would crafting armor and weapons be a good source for cash if I had a clan who would hunt stuff with me? Also... Do people actually get their dwarves to 80? And... Would it be possible to level my dwarf to 80 as a warsmith... Then get a subclass as a the collecting dwarf class. Then I could hunt things as a collector, go back to town and switch to warsmith and craft using the material i gained.
Any class is able to sub as a Bounty Hunter(gathering dwarf) so I guess it is possible for you to lvl a warsmith, then subclass as a Bounty Hunter, by my god man, how massacistic would someone have to be to do that(no offense, but you will understand at higher lvls if you keep playing the dwarf)


Lets say I was at the top levels. Would crafting armor and weapons be a good source for cash if I had a clan who would hunt stuff with me? Also... Do people actually get their dwarves to 80? And... Would it be possible to level my dwarf to 80 as a warsmith... Then get a subclass as a the collecting dwarf class. Then I could hunt things as a collector, go back to town and switch to warsmith and craft using the material i gained.


now thats a guy underestimating the L2 grind :P
as far as i know noone has ever played a WS, subbed a BH and got nobless
that right there would prolly kill me

there is no reason to be lvl 80 on either dwarf but its not impossible to do so
the last lvl of craft is lvl 70
the last lvl of spoil is lvl 76
from 76 on we get what can be losely described as pvp skills (not horrifically bad skills but considering what we get before 76 its not even close to sufficient)

if you want to sacrifice everything for a chance to earn slightly more than a good class (or the illusion that you do) play a dwarf
otherwise play something else

i consider it my job as a high lvl dwarf forum troll to ensure no new player ever picks the dwarf race so once you stop being one i can answer all your other questions ^^
Hmmm... I guess you could. The key materials are generally on mobs with a level higher than you can craft stuff at. For instance key materials for D grade armor can be found at mobs around level 40.

So if you want to help your clan mates hunt it you would have to wait a few levels before being able to craft it.

Also do note that weapons and armor can take some time to sell. As items do not degrade on this game and they don't drop anymore under normal circunstances. So once you buy the equipment there is no need to buy another unless you tried to overenchant it and broke. Or want to buy another piece of equipment because you want to test another set or need an extra weapon.

I know only two dwarves that got at least to 75 in my server. One of them being a bounty hunter that is on my clan. The other was/is a hero. Not sure anymore as I don't pay attention to that.

The one in my clan is just playing on his subclass now and he loves it more than his main class. Also he is talking about quitting the game as he got tired of it.

There are 3 more dwarves in my clan that are getting close to 75. Two of them being bounty hunters.

So, yes, it is possible. But it will be painful and any other class can reach there faster than you can. And once you get to the point to subclass I highly doubt you will want to subclass as a bounty hunter. Specially because by that time you will have found something more profitable than crafting.

EDIT: Oh, one of the bounty hunters that is getting close to 75 is leveling a wolf to grind with him. He expects to kill faster that way. But I don't think it will make that much difference.

Is crafting Soul Shots the ONLY way to make money? Is it possible to earn a living being commisioned to make weapons or armor for other players?



If you want to be a crafter, you REALLY have to BE a crafter.

You have to love finding thousands upon thousands of mats for your craft. That can entail getting them yourself by either purchasing them for lower than market value, making a spoiler, having friends get them for you, etc.

Being a crafter means knowing the market and how to "exploit" it.

Also, leveling dwarves can be hard and slow. Of course it's not impossible but will you be able to do it? You are not going to be "zipping" up to the highest levels and then making the high level crafts. And recipes can be a pain in the neck as well. You almost need a clan/alliance to be backing you and helping you out.

You also need to know what sells. You won't be making gobs of money on D grade items. And not on every A grade as some items are more popular than others.

Heck, it's almost worth it to just make a spoiler and sell mats to other players.

Good Luck.
I don't mind a challenge.. Having playing FFXI for 3 years I'm used to those sorts of grinds. At this point I'm just worried about finding a home. I'm being told there's a wonderful community beyond the starter zones. I'm hoping that's true... But is there a demand for high level dwarves? Do they offer anything to groups? Are they valuable in any way?

now thats a guy underestimating the L2 grind :P
as far as i know noone has ever played a WS, subbed a BH and got nobless
that right there would prolly kill me



i do ^^ 77 maestro/ 76 fortune seeker :P ya hes nuts lol
In my last clan we used a dwarf as our tank. Well, not to "tank" per se, but due to his high HP, weapon and armor choice, he could draw initial agro long enough for us to take out the mobs we were killing. He was also good at rounding up AOE mobs, and using fake death to train bots. And of course the spoils were nice too.

Dwarves still have their place in this game.

Personally, I enjoy playing my BH (only 45) from time to time, and would probably play her more if I wasn't trying so hard to get my sub up to 66.

I'm not sure how Bartz is, but on my server there are plenty of clans that would take you in and show you the ropes. If you join an academy prior to level 18, the clan will get maximum reputation points from you when you graduate at 40.


Quote:
now thats a guy underestimating the L2 grind :P
as far as i know noone has ever played a WS, subbed a BH and got nobless
that right there would prolly kill me



i do ^^ 77 maestro/ 76 fortune seeker :P ya hes nuts lol



you should prolly put that in your sig :P

EDIT: to the O.P check your forum mail

I don't mind a challenge.. Having playing FFXI for 3 years I'm used to those sorts of grinds. At this point I'm just worried about finding a home. I'm being told there's a wonderful community beyond the starter zones. I'm hoping that's true... But is there a demand for high level dwarves? Do they offer anything to groups? Are they valuable in any way?



I'm going to go out on a limb here (and risk the ire of my fellow players) and say "no".

No one yells "Party looking for dwarf". They do sometimes stay in town and yell "looking for "X crafter to craft my X" but you are not going to see parties stalling because they are looking for a spoiler. If you are in a clan or alliance that is interested in crafting some item, they might make a party with the purpose of having a spoiler "spoil" the appropriate mats.

As I stated before, you have to LOVE crafting. I know a few players like this. But if you are just making a dwarf because you want to make money to fund another character, you will most likely (though I don't really know you so this is a guess) lose interest.

So my question to you is "why". Are you always a crafter in other games or are you just looking for the best way to make money?

Also, just because you are a dwarf doesn't mean you won't be included in parties with clan members. But pickup groups don't shout for dwarves.
I'm interested in dwarves because they are centered around items. Crafting, money, finding drops easier. In FFXI I built my character around this aspect and loved him for it. I'm looking to be centered around the economy of this game. Of course I'll enjoy a bit of fighting but nothing to loose myself in. I'm hoping becoming a maestro/ collector class will allow myself to not only make a reputation as a crafter of exeptional skill but also be there to help others find items or make armor. I can understand this will take time, but it's something to work for.
On another topic, I seem to have ended up in a little town called heine... Don't ask how. I'm looking to return to the dwarves village but I can't find a newbie guide to trade my travel tokens too. Could anyone help me out?
The only way you end up there that I could think of was that you used a scroll to teleport to Giran and then walked down to Heine.

Take the road north to Giran and stick to it. Don't get out of the road or you might be killed. Once on Giran talk with Trader Galladucci on the Luxury Shop. He will give you a quest to go back to dwarf village.

Oh, and something I forgot to mention. B grade and above recipes are all 60%. That means there is 40% chance for you to fail the craft. Also you need an extra copy of the recipe each time you craft. Exception are shots and arrows.

The items you will craft will be exactly the same as the all the others people craft in terms of stats. There is also no indication of who crafted it. So making your name as an excellent crafter might prove way more harder than you are expecting.

On another topic, I seem to have ended up in a little town called heine... Don't ask how. I'm looking to return to the dwarves village but I can't find a newbie guide to trade my travel tokens too. Could anyone help me out?



My guess is that you will have to run to Gludio. It's ok... see some of the sites.

Keep in mind that when many of us started, there werent' newbie guides or travel tokens (or a Heine for that matter) so we ran everywhere. There is a lot to the game that people miss because they get too caught up in using the gatekeeper (I"m guilty of this).

However, this is the perfect opportunity for you to feel what it was like in prelude and get some "excercise".

Also, I think Gludio is the nearest place with a newbie guide... I don't believe there is one in Dion.
AFAIK, Gludio is the last of the Newbie Towns, eastward of there, you find only the Gatekeepers.


Oh, and something I forgot to mention. B grade and above recipes are all 60%. That means there is 40% chance for you to fail the craft.




This part is false.
There are indeed 100% recipes for B grade items.

It is still quite possible to make money by crafting... but just crafting any old thing won't do... you have to know the market and what to make.

Any clan you doesn't help level their warsmiths is just silly... its like the people who won't help level their overlords.

Another thing.... even if you choose to pick another class later, your warsmith will still be VERY useful if only for crystalization.... many drops are completely worthless as their normal drop... but as crystals (or shots) you will sell them quickly and easily.

Let's say you quit your warsmith at 4x.... you will still craft base items by yourself and be able to crystalize D and C items yourself.

Lets say I was at the top levels. Would crafting armor and weapons be a good source for cash if I had a clan who would hunt stuff with me? Also... Do people actually get their dwarves to 80? And... Would it be possible to level my dwarf to 80 as a warsmith... Then get a subclass as a the collecting dwarf class. Then I could hunt things as a collector, go back to town and switch to warsmith and craft using the material i gained.



My WS main is 77. Throughout my time in L2 I have mostly had to obtain my own recipes (spent 180 mill for S weapon recipes). It is very rare that a recipe gets donated. Usually it is someone who needs the craft now, and has a spare to donate. This only happens when new recipes come out, and few warsmiths have them in their books.

Most of my clannies buy their equipment from farmers, to avoid the potentially high failure rates for crafting (I failed my first three A grade weapon crafts). For this reasons most players have no interest in doing quest to get recipes. And if they do get recipes, they can sell them for so much money, that giving it to the clan warsmith rarely happens.

At 77 I need to get S grade armor recipes in my book, which in my case means killing Ketra Orcs. Most people hate hunting ketras, so that means I 2 box an SE. Even then my kill rate is extremely slow. Luckily my subclass (level 71 SH) can kill Ketra just fine, and I will get my fourth recipe soon. I have been working on this quest for months. Leveling is very slow when hunting Ketra, and material drops are meager.

I am telling you this so will will understand that this late in the game a warsmith is a very bad choice. The only reason I continue is because I am probably the top unbottted maestro on my server, and I have some pride in my accomplishment.

I will also say that my alliance does not have a single active high level spoiler. Getting parts from regular drops is either extremely difficult or outright impossible. Most of the spoilers on the server are in farmer clans. I think there is an opportunity for a real player as a Bounty Hunter.

I'm interested in dwarves because they are centered around items. Crafting, money, finding drops easier. In FFXI I built my character around this aspect and loved him for it. I'm looking to be centered around the economy of this game. Of course I'll enjoy a bit of fighting but nothing to loose myself in. I'm hoping becoming a maestro/ collector class will allow myself to not only make a reputation as a crafter of exeptional skill but also be there to help others find items or make armor. I can understand this will take time, but it's something to work for.



In *theory* this is what Dwarves are all about.

In reality, some extremely bad design decisions have handicapped this to an extreme level.

Here some details regarding the two possible dwarf specializations and then we can explore why they are broken.

1)Spoiling.
This is an 'active' skill first learned at L5 by all dwarves. After L20 only the Scavenger class continues to learn higher levels of this skill. Spoil works like this:

Run up to a mob and activate the 'Spoil' skill. A short animation plays ending with a small firework looking display and your dwarf will automatically attack the mob afterwards. If the 'attack' succeeds you will recieve a systems message stating that the 'Spoil condition had been enabled.' If the spoil fails nothing else happens, although you will still automatically begin to attack. If you fail to 'land' the spoil you can try again after the skill refreshes without any penalty other than the extra MP used in the attempt and the time it takes to use the skill again.

Once a mob has been 'spoiled' you must then kill it. After a spoiled mob dies there is a chance that you may obtain extra items from the mob by using the 'Sweeper' skill on the mobs body before it disappears. Just like regular drops, items that can be spoiled have their own chance of success. The game checks each possible spoil in the table for each mob that has been successfully spoiled (1-3 items specific to each mob and only base materials like varnish/thread/stem will ever have a quantity above 1.) and IF any one of those checks is a success the spoiled mob corpse will glow a dark blue. (A little hard to see on some mobs) If there is no 'blue glow' you get nothing from the mob, although the sweeper skill will still work on it. (It does not work on any unspoiled corpse.)

Most dwarves will sweep a corpse regardless, as a 'swept' mob will instantly disappear afterwards instead of laying there for a period of time. This 'recycles' the mobs to respawn faster, and sweep costs so little MP that making sweep a habit (in case you Zen out or just don't see the glow) is just good to do.

The skill spoil receives updates every few skill levels that allow you to spoil higher level mobs. If you do not update your spoil skill it will 'land' at lower rates the higher the level of the mob. Thus a Dwarven Warsmith (crafter) can still use his old low level spoil on mobs, but it may only land once every 300 attempts. A Bounty Hunter with an appropriate level of spoil will succeed on almost every attempt. There is only one level of sweep, so even a L80 Crafter can sweep mobs with the same chance of success as a Spoiler. BUT! Sweeping is level dependent just like drops. (Or more correctly, the sweeps from a successful spoil.) If the mob that was spoiled was of too low a level compared to the character who spoiled it, (Not killed it.) then the chance of the corpse turning blue and sweeping an item is greatly reduced just like drops.

Thus to spoil a mob with a reasonable chance of success at getting an extra item you need a Dwarven spoiler of an appropriate level for the mobs that you wish to spoil. (Both Dwarf character level and level of the spoil skill.) OR You need to party one. NC added 'spoil sharing' to party options some time ago. What this does is add any spoils to the loot distribution rules for a party. Thus any party with an active spoiler can receive spoils without actually having the skill. For the spoiler however, their 'benefit' from having the spoil skill will always drop to 1/x, where x is the number of people in the party. (Mobs can only be spoiled and swept once for each kill.)

2)Crafting
There are actually two skills related to dwarven crafters that are important. Crystallize and Craft. Crystallize is a 'skill' that gives you the ability to 'reduce' any Graded item to it's base value in crystals. (Crystallize is usually referred as 'Crush'ing. As it involves destroying the item to convert it to crystals.) (D, C and B grade skills are learned only upon reaching grade levels, but A and S grade Crystallize is learned before actual grade mastery is.) Since crystals are needed to craft almost all graded items and for some classes skills (Cubic/summons) and crystals are not sold or dropped (Excepting 'blown' Enchant attempts) this is a fairly important skill.

The actual craft skill is the other half of the dwarf abilities. To craft you need a few things.

A) You need to 'register' a recipe in your 'book'. This determines what you are able to craft. To register a recipe you must have learned the crafting skill up to the minimum level of any given recipe. Crafting skill levels come more frequently than Crystallize skill levels, but there are only 9 in total. (versus 5 Crystallize skill levels.) Removing a recipe from your book destroys it, and space in the book is limited although it is expandable to a point. For all consumable items only one recipe is needed. For all equipment above C grade one additional recipe is needed for each craft, being consumed in the creation process. All recipes of C grade and below have a 100% chance of success. For B grade, there are 60%, 70% and 100% recipes. For A grade and up only 60% and 70% recipes exist. (Jewelry is the only item with 70% recipes, all armor and weapons are 60%) The % of a recipe not only determines the success rate, but also affects the quantity/quality of base materials consumed in the attempt. If a craft fails all items used in the attempt are lost with no compensation.

B)Key Items. These are the item specific blades, shafts, stones or whatever that are needed to make an item. For the most part the higher level of the item being crafted the more you need, although the quantities are fairly low. (~8 for top D to ~13 for A grade.)

C)Base materials. These are items such as Animal Skin, Iron ore, Varnish or higher levels of base items such as Crafted Leather or Mold glue. Some 'intermediate' materials can be made by 'crafting' lower level materials together, while others cannot. The higher level the item being crafted the more base materials needed. For the lowest level materials used for the highest level of crafts you will need thousands. (Assuming you do not buy/aquire the intermediate level materials instead.)

Crafting base materials into higher level materials can be time and MP consuming, but crafting all final items is a one-click deal. Also, all dwarves can setup a 'craft shop' which allows any person to 'buy' a single craft 'click' from the dwarf for a price set by the dwarf. In case of a craft shop all the dwarf needs is a recipe registered, the person using the shop just needs the materials for the craft itself. (Including any recipes that will be consumed by the attempt.)


Whew! Got all that? Good. Here's where things break down.


1)Spoil tables.
A huge majority of key materials and recipes do NOT spoil. They are drop only. And of the ones that do spoil, their chance of being swept is ridiculously low. So low that you are almost guaranteed to outlevel the mob and the resulting gear you can craft from it before you get enough to make ONE. Also, most crafting key items only spoil from mobs well above the levels at which you would want the gear for. Also, many recipes, key materials or full items are usually much easier to get by raid boss drops or quests than they are from spoils, although some of these will require a party or more to accomplish. Also of those items that do spoil, they usually only spoil from 1-2 mobs at most. Only jewelry parts or shield parts seem to spoil with any frequency at all levels. So if you want a spoilable weapon recipe often only 1-2 mobs will have it, but there may be ~30 mobs that spoil jewelry parts. (not counting the mobs that drop those!)

In addition, 'base material' spoils are quite low. Not only in quantity compared to crafting amounts, but also in terms of mobs which actually spoil them at a reasonable rate! There are NO mobs that spoil animal bone (or Coarse Bone Powder) above level 54 AT ALL. Despite needing thousands of this component for all crafts above the level.

Enter the Manor. This is a way of aquiring base materials in mass quantities, which is open to all characters. (not just spoilers) It is in fact the only 'real' way to aquire enough items to craft just about anything. It is however both level restricted and quantity restricted. (Seeds levels/rewards as well as buyback limits per castle.) It also can be completely non-functioning if castle owning clans don't want to run their manor...

Thus the despite the class designed to aquire crafting items spoilers barely have any potential spoils worth the price they pay in choosing a class with almost no combat ability skills. (or skills in general.) And of the spoils that could be worth it, you'll probably need a group to kill the mobs that has it...which of course means 'sharing' those potential spoils with the group your in.

So what about crafters then? Well, crafters get beat with the same stick as the spoilers...just the other end of it. After all, if there are no materials/recipes coming in, you can't craft anything. Also, both are affected by NPC shops, the Giran Luxury shop and the Blacksmith of Mammon.

NPC Shops, because it's usually MUCH easier to buy a complete item from a store (even at max tax rates) than it is to try and aquire all the items needed to craft it. The same goes for the Luxury shop. For Mammon, it's just far easier to upgrade a weapon with Ancient Adena you bought from the Luxury shop than it is to gather/buy the materials you need to craft one. Combined these can take a non-dwarf up to B grade easily enough without crafting/spoiling or interacting with a dwarf at all. For B/A/S grades there are a *few* items that are easier to get via spoil, although most will need to be crafted regardless . (Outside the small % of full mob drops or possible raid boss drops.)

Add all this together, and it means spoilers need to be within specific level ranges to be of a specific spoil to make much money at all with their skill and they need to either do it solo, or hope the loot distribution is in their favor. For crafters, this means that their is a minimum level (~52/B grade) before they can learn the crafts people 'need'. At which point they will be competing with every other dwarf in town who has that recipe in their craft book and a craft shop up. They could just make 'shots' most of the time to compensate, but often the profit margin on those is minimal compared to the time needed to craft enough for one person to use if they spam them constantly.

In short, play a dwarf as an alt before your even think of playing one as a main. It can save you a lot of grief if you find the pain of leveling one too much.
well, since were on the topic of noobs, i think Ill stand up, being a relative noob myself.I know how ya feel Pompous, this game takes alot of hard work, when i started it was alot of devotion towards leveling, now im lv. 41 abyss walker :), but one thing i dunno..how in %$#$@* do u cast Offensive spells on people? i have a Mystic Rec [censored] who i use jus to rec my main, and i wanna muck around and Pvp, but I dunno how to blast people, do u hold cntrl and click or what? Gaaaaah!! (explodes)

but I dunno how to blast people, do u hold cntrl and click or what? Gaaaaah!! (explodes)



Yes. For the spells that are allowable as opening attacks.