Well, so I'm going for a PR with my current main when I hit 40 hopefully thing weekend, and with that in mind, I'm still find it that I don't find I'm being as effective as I could be playing an archer type character in solo play. People recommend kiting for me, and I've tried that and there are a few problems with that style, at least for me. For one, most mobs I fight are pretty **** quick, so they'll either catch up to me quick, or even the slower ones will catch up eventually because of the constant stopping, shotting mechanic. Also, a second problem that comes from kiting in my experience is that in a lot of areas, there are a lot of mobs that aggro around, so in my attempt to run around kiting, I might get some unwanted attention in the form of a link, and even worst, a train.
What I do currently works alright, keeps me safe from other mobs at least, but can increase my down time quite a bit, not to mention it might be an expensive habit. Right now, I do a pull with my bow, and fire off arrows until the mob gets close. At that point, I switch to a dagger and **** away. I've been told that this style of play is more similar for a dagger user and I might be better off as a AW if that's how I like to play.
Well, so I ask you guys, what should I do to maximize my effectiveness, without going broke in the process(i.e: having to buy speed pots and teleport back and forth every 20 minutes to get buffs)? If a fellow dagger user can record himself soloing to give me a visual image of how to play the class, that'd be great!
Again, thanks for any helpful replies, and I hope to get things straighted out before I hit 40 and become a full fledged archer.
Well if your talking selfbuffed solo here, as an archer you will go for green mobbs in open areas mostely. You kite as much as possible to decrease the damage you take, if possible no dmg at all (unbuffed this is very hard even on green mobbs).
Buffed.. just target, kill, target kill rinse and repeat.
Archers are very dependent on buffs, not saying it cant solo, it probably solos pretty darn good compared to most classes anyway. Im saying get a buffer as a friend, or someone that can provide you buffs, since thats when archers shine.
Althou at C grade, id argue it would me more effective and easier to go dagger and hit mobbs with herbs. ofcourse dagger and bow in c grade is the best if your not planning on using SS. If your using SS on C grade BOW you will have to go to town all the time, and its costly.
It gets much better with b grade bow and SSB, thats when you wont even bother with dagger anymore.
Edited the RED text, misstyped... its the bow that will have you rinning to time all the time at c grade.
Ahhh, so I think I see where I'm failing here then. I'm going for yellow/white mobs all the time, which makes sense why I can't really kite anything. But, isn't green going to be very little, exp wise, even if they are faster kills? Also, you're an AW aren't you? How does that play like? Is it similar to what I'm doing now? Or not at all?
Ahhh, so I think I see where I'm failing here then. I'm going for yellow/white mobs all the time, which makes sense why I can't really kite anything. But, isn't green going to be very little, exp wise, even if they are faster kills? Also, you're an AW aren't you? How does that play like? Is it similar to what I'm doing now? Or not at all?
ACtually the AW is kinda retired also, playing a BD atm. (Took a break from l2, came back and didnt like the fact that i had to have VR to solo effectively after lvl 66 (was used with only PP buffs and herbs :) )
Well, Archer unbuffed. The point here is to kill things that doesnt hit you enought to have you sit for HP. If you can kite yellow mobbs and not rest for HP then id say its a decent place to be. Green will die faster thou.. ats all about finding the place to be, factoring in danger, randomness of dangerous situations, killspeed, downtime, amount of XP per kill and so on.
It all comes down to having 100% uptime is in 99/100 cases the best thing, also more fun. With buffs you will be killing red stuffs as an archer and still have 100% uptime especially in duo with a prophet who can heal enough and give you godly buffs that more then tripples (probably more even) your dmg and xp rate.
Just try to go for low downtime, spacy so you can run and kite if things (randomness) goes bad.
And as a AW, well... pros is it can solo well with herbs these days and it is much more welcome in random parties. As an archer the only good parties is an archer party or a small duo with archer or buffer. As an archer you rarely get to XP in dungeons and such.
Playing an AW is very different 52+ from archer. Archer its run kite /iWin crits and so on. While dagger your running towards your opponents trying to slow, debuff, get behind stab and so on.
Id argue that a dagger has more use of a bow then a archer of a dagger thou bigtime. But if your just grinding for xp, having a bow and arrows with you is the suck since you wont be able to carry SS for more like 20 mins or something..
As an AW your also like in groups since your a dagger that can use HEX between stabs. This is very popular in big groups since you increase dps alot for all DPS characters except nukers.
You will have to use alot less stabs to hex all the time thou and can basically only hex mobbs white or yellow effectivly.
Archer has advantage in fullscale PvP, and smallgroup PvE.
Dagger has advantage in olympiad (this is how i understands it, i do not guarantee this at all since i havent tried it. However i doubt im wrong.)
Dagger has advantage in dungeon groups and also playes very well in small groups.
Other aspects i can think of are pretty even, both are fantastic Damage characters, both can kill stupidly fast. Archer has advantage where range and buffs factor. Dagger has advantage where your in more narrowed space and less buffed.
Well thats a big rant about how i feel about the archer vs dagger. Played both 60+ so should count for atleast my 2 cents :)
Well, that's a lot of useful there, thanks a lot! But yeah, today when I get off of work I'm going to try and hunt somewhere that I'm fighting greens for an hour, and then I'm going to compare it to a zone where I'm fighting yellows, see what works best. From your description, it does seem like AW is a more useful overall class, especially if it's more welcome in dungeons and such. Also, I'm not quite understanding one this: which class do you mean needs a lot of SS? The archer or dagger? Or a dagger that also uses bow? Bows spend more per shot, but it's also very slow(slower then dagger anyways). But yeah, my morale right now is changing, and I might go for AW instead of PR.
Ahhh, so I think I see where I'm failing here then. I'm going for yellow/white mobs all the time, which makes sense why I can't really kite anything. But, isn't green going to be very little, exp wise, even if they are faster kills? Also, you're an AW aren't you? How does that play like? Is it similar to what I'm doing now? Or not at all?
Quick answer as I didnt see it.
There is no exp penalty for green mobs.
You get the same exp off of green mobs as you do white mobs.
Well, I figured as much, it's that I assumed that if it was yellow, it would be a higher level mob, thus giving more exp just for being a stronger mob, not that a green one would necessarily get a penalty.
Try to secure a source of buffs as soon as possible, no matter what class you play.
Either from a party member or another player in your area, a clanhall with teleports to your hunting location, or make your own to play on a 2nd account.
Progress will become unbearably slow if you don't play with buffs.
a dagger + green mobs that drop pots = fastest, most efficient leveling
The other alternative: bow + mobs weak to arrow that also drop pots (not as many of these at C grade as there are at D grade)
If you are set on using the bow at these levels, you can still kite effectively. Just plan out your retreat pattern in advance. Turn your camera angle 180 degrees if you have to after you attack just to make sure that you see what's behind you.
Also keep in mind that the point of kiting is simply to evade enemy attack. If PR's are like other archers, they should get some sort of passive skill that increases evasion when they are running.
With my HE (at lower levels) I didn't kite in a straight line, but ran in a tight circle around the mob while still firing arrows. The mob AI is such that it has to target you, follow you, stop, try to attack you, and then pursue again. By the time it's done all of that, it's usually dead. They move slowly enough that they almost never hit you.
The difference between an HE and a PR here is that I have enough CON that I don' t have to worry about damage taken, stuns/shock/paralysis, etc., as much as a PR would. Since PR have higher DEX and STR, my guess is once you make the class change, get your +4 dyes, and better patk weapons, you'll probably not need to kite either.
(aside: I'm very tempted to roll a PR just to compare/contrast it with the HE.)
What's the best way to tell which mobs are weak against bows? Also, every mob in the game that is not in a catacomb drop pots don't they?
You can view the mob's attributes on the target window by selecting the down arrow ("drill down"). There are also websites like Stratics ( i think it was Stratics) that list mob attributes, including weaknesses.
Not every field mob drops pots. In fact, in some places, like Alligator Island, you can literally go from one pond where mobs drop pots, to the next pond where they don't. There isn't always a clear demarcation. (It's possible that was just a glitch that has since been patched.)
When I was lvl 40+ I used a Eminence Bow with cheapshot. Alot of people at that time told me I was better off with a dagger until 52, but I disagree. For me, I didn't use many soulshots until lvl 50 on my mad dash to B grade. I'd carry minimal amount of shots for emergencies or once in a while to help along with the damage. Mainly I focused on carrying alot of arrows so I could stay out longer. With Cheapshot I could hunt with nearly no downtime, and solo without a healer/buffer.
As far as kiting, I tend to run around in a circle so that when a mob is going to hit me, I have a better chance to evade. Chances are you're gonna get hit, but the Idea, is to sort of slinkie the mob around so he has to work to hit you.
Wait, I use and abuse SS' simply because I was lead on by pretty much everyone that you NEED SS' to solo with any amount of effectiveness. But this has also led me to being pretty much broke and having trouble buying things like pots and the like. What were you fighting that allowed you to solo effectively while saving up on the SS'? Greens? I'm at level 38 still since I haven't had the chance to play for a few days but today I'm goingto get cracking again.
By the way, thanks a lot for all these replies, truly helpful.
at 38 I believe I was killing the Breka Orcs NorthEast of Giran. I avoided the Shamans and Overlords though. With the Herbs they drop you will have an easier time though. Once I hit 40 and got My C grade, I moved to Leto Lizardmen Soldiers and Archers. The archer mobs give a nice bonus to XP, but you gotta be careful. What I do with them is Use SS for the first couple hits.
Otherwise If I was feeling impatient, I'd conserve my SS and space them out every couple arrows so at least you're not spamming them. I'm not gonna lie though, it will take slightly longer to level, but you can save alot of money. For me that was worth the extra time it took to level.
Well, I figured as much, it's that I assumed that if it was yellow, it would be a higher level mob, thus giving more exp just for being a stronger mob, not that a green one would necessarily get a penalty.
Hunt greens.
You will get less xp but the work and resources that you put in to kill a yellow will be much less.
Case in point, I can go to Forge of the Gods and solo the mobs there. But so what? The xp will be great per mob but it will take a while and I will have to rest all the time.
Well, I figured as much, it's that I assumed that if it was yellow, it would be a higher level mob, thus giving more exp just for being a stronger mob, not that a green one would necessarily get a penalty.
Hunt greens.
You will get less xp but the work and resources that you put in to kill a yellow will be much less.
Case in point, I can go to Forge of the Gods and solo the mobs there. But so what? The xp will be great per mob but it will take a while and I will have to rest all the time.
Fast xp is the name of the game.
**** I would like to see how you deal with a respawn of 6 Aramanes of Destruction :)
For me, I didn't use many soulshots until lvl 50 on my mad dash to B grade.
I applaud anyone who can manage to do that.
I just didn't have the patience for it. I spammed SS like it grew on trees. Plus I only had SE buffs back then, so it made sense to grab a focus dagger, add VR, and slash & dash to and beyond the early levels of B grade.
Much has changed. I've since leveled a PP to replace the SE (although I still use the SE for recharges, since I use a QR bow), but I'm still spamming pots trying to get to S grade before the summer. Dying to get my hands on a Draconic/Focus bow.
Have a look in Sea of Spores when you reach 40. Apart from Wyrms and eyes at the top, and tarantulas, the mob in there are all passive, even if you hit one adjacent to another. You get some good mats and adena. Do the warehouse medal quest too from Oren and hunters. You get loads of medals in there. Just steer clear of Orfen or she'll kill you in a couple of hits. She looks like a raid boss but is actually aggro with a long range.
Teleport from Oren direct to Sea of Spores.
Second time I've recommended this place today lol.
Talking of SoulShots elsewhere in this thread, I use them all the time on my Glad, Warsmith and Scav. I judge the expense of shots used against the adena that drops from the kill. It should balance out. If the adena is too low then I'll move on.
i play pr since Prelude, got a lvl 78 one. The thing about kiting is (it wasnt always like this, it changed after c2), that most mobs will catch up to you anyways.
But the point is taking less hits when you shoot, run a bit, then shoot again. Since melee damage hits much faster, kiting will cause that the melee mob loses the advantage of hitting faster than an archer can shoot. Because you will only get hit every time you stop to shoot the mob.
Thus you will take less damage. thats the whole idea of kiting. It is almost impossible not to get hit at all especially if you only have self buffs.
Now if you are wondering if you should go AW or PR. a High level Pr is probably one of the fastest and most deadly killers in this game (IF you have the proper buffs, rather full buffs). As All archers, PR is weak without buffs, but almost untouchable with full buffs.
And dont forget the PR skill "Dead Eye", people still underestimate its power. It adds more damage and crit damage than an Queen Ant Ring or Baium ring (Epic jewelry).
At later levels, let's say, in sieges, I'm assuming that there is always a buffer around to keep you "deadly" right? Also, I asked this already, but I wanna see what you think: Do you use daggers for anything at all, as a PR? Did you ever use it?
Now if you are wondering if you should go AW or PR. a High level Pr is probably one of the fastest and most deadly killers in this game (IF you have the proper buffs, rather full buffs). As All archers, PR is weak without buffs, but almost untouchable with full buffs.
And dont forget the PR skill "Dead Eye", people still underestimate its power. It adds more damage and crit damage than an Queen Ant Ring or Baium ring (Epic jewelry).
Ok, that settles it. Let me roll a PR to see what I'm missing. Just hope they don't change anything by the time that I level him up.
Umm, anyone want to donate a Baium ring to a worthy cause?
At later levels, let's say, in sieges, I'm assuming that there is always a buffer around to keep you "deadly" right? Also, I asked this already, but I wanna see what you think: Do you use daggers for anything at all, as a PR? Did you ever use it?
high level players (after 60s and 70s) rarely ever hunt without proper buffs. you will hardly find anyone xping or pvping with self buffs at all.
and its good to have a dagger as PR, i used one before, but its not a must like it is for a SR since we have BTM giving us MP. but if you can get a dagger, get one coz it can help.
there is no play style and there is no skill in being an archer imo....
Every class has a play style, and some, including archers, have more than one, depending on equipment, buffs, mob, etc.
I'm not saying that an archer's playstyle is the most profound topic, because it's not. Like you said, it could be as simple as "target - shoot - run away - rinse - repeat."
Sometimes, but not always.
Evidently this particular style wasn't working for the OP as well as he would like. I'm glad that lots of folks stepped up with helpful ideas.
Hello,
i am PR and i used a dagger (at catas) till i reached lvl 52 and B Grade.
Since then i am stucked at my Bow Of Peril and never used a dagger again.
As for the kitting....hmmm.. after lvl 52 with a properly party and buffs, you will not have to kite anymore.
With PP bufs, BD dances and my skill, i have attack speed 600!!! 5 more than BDs attack speed:) ;)
Until you reach lvl 52 my opinion is to shoot with bow until the target come close to you and then switch to dagger to finish him.
In which server you are? Maybe i can help you if we are at the same server. (TEON)