I, like many others before me, come to a crossroad with a difficult choice of A grade weapons. At level 60 a nuker or dagger who’s A grade is just around the corner makes the biggest mistake when acquiring their weapons. I recently did a little homework and looked at the numbers and compared all similar weapons prices and stats. I used the two most commonly used weapons and benched marked them with over-enchanted B and C grade weapons.
Weapon pattk mattk sa tprice
SoM 186 152 auc 140m
+5Wiz T. 176 153 acu 110m
+7Val 173 155 acu +110m
+10Homu 162 152 acu 89m
+7Homu 144 132 acu 30m
As u can see Sword of Miracle is the most commonly used top A grade available and the most expensive when compared to a +10 Homunculus. The difference is about 50m which should probably be used getting you’re DC robe armor. The benefit of having a SoM is later down the line u can safety enchant it to +3 down the line. And u get more pvp damage as stated on the weapon. The root of all evils is that one has to e-bay or farm for 140m smackers out front, ouch.
The most sensible and economical alternative to a SoM is an over-enchanted Homunculus. The benefits of having a +10 homu are the following: Easy Cbsps, cheaper on the adena, pretty blue glowing weapon, at lower levels faster exp. The disadvantages are as follows: More bsps ur weapon uses 3x more then a som, lower p attack then a SoM.
As for daggers, I benched marked 3 of the most commonly used daggers with focus special abilities. When matching up daggers u have to consider the following: price, p attack, and critical rate. Surprisingly, I see why bloody orchid fails as a top A grade dagger.
Bloody orchid has the lowest critical rate at 67.3 when compared to a Kris 71.9 or a dark screamer at 81.2.
A +7Kris is far superior then a top a grade for this very reason. The drawbacks are the extra 40m.
A +10DS or higher is actually the best dagger for the money. The benefits it has the highest critical rate and also the highest m attack. At +10 the price is fairly priced at 90m. Best choice for lower levels. The drawbacks are more 3x more ss, and no pvp extra damage.
In conclusion, a +10 Homu/DS or higher is the best choice. Its cheaper, practical, and in some cases far more superior then its higher grade rivals.
Of course all these are just numbers and commonly found prices found on bartz server. Each server and availably will determine the actual price of some of the weapons. So as far as values, u will not see those prices equal to that what I had stated accros the board.
Also, I know I am probably stating the obvious for veterans who have most of the weapon(s) stated. I wrote this to help those players in my situation. I hope this is helpful in persuading some of u to stick ur older C or B grade weapon(s).
I used both l 2 w h and L2p.bravehost.com for most of the statistical data and market values. So, I didn’t just pull these numbers out of thin air.
Please fill free to add any positive feedback on any compassion if u have such said weapon(s).
Bartz
6x BH
58 Soc
56 WS
55 SE
50 Bishop
4x PP
4x PR
4x OL
4x WC
4x EE
4x SK
4x Pally
4x Sws
5 more below 40
The disadvantage with the OE C weapons of course is the fact that you need to carry 3x more shots all the time so you will hunt for less time, also if you pvp a lot you get less damage.
In the other side to get the SA on a A weapon is not hard if you are in a big/medium clan, myself I got the SA on my Soul Bow for really cheap, I leveled the crystal to +10 then I got it to +12 with the ally raids, but of course not everyone is in my position.
Now in your chart which has really good information, for a mage is really hard to level up with no Acumen, and for a dagger they depend on critical damage mostly when they exp so the higher the base damage the the higher they crit so for those I will provably look for the balance and will go with the OE B weapon if I can pay it just because you can hunt for a longer time than with the C weapon.
you can +3 it for more mattk, and you got the cool factor and the price. OE'd weapons fluctuate too much
Actually I was going to factor that in but as u notice it got a bit long.
Your right +3 more on som is another 9 m attack 12 p attack and another 21mil on top of the 140m making it 160M+.
160M u can get a +12 Homu or higher. Trying to stay far below the 100m mark.
Upgrading a mage weapon isn't that big of a deal honestly. Not only does getting a better weapon not raise your M.Atk. that much, but M.Atk. doesn't make as big of a damage difference in spells as P.Atk. does for fighters. I know this isn't what your post was getting at, but kind of an add on to what you had to say! :)
The only advantage of an A grade weapon over B grade is the PvP damage bonus you can get with an SA on it. Both A and B grade are better than C grade weapons due to shot usage and amounts you can carry. C grade weapons tend to have the highest enchants though and the best Matk since they are cheap and EWC has reached "mass" quantity due to how frequently they are used as event items.
Forget the Numbers and ask yourself these simple questions.
1)Do I PvP and need the A grade weapon with SA?
2)If you do not PvP, is it worth the money to get an A grade weapon that I really do not need?
3)Do I care about needing to go back and get shots often?
You can go all the way to 75 with a clean Ghoul Staff, but it's not efficient. If money is not an issue in determining your choice of weapon, get the A grade weapon just for the looks, A grade shot prices will also fluctuate often and can be hard to come by at times. If money is an issue, I would say go with B grade as B grade crystal prices are always stable and shots are easy to find. A C grade weapon will cost you about the same as an A grade with SA usually if it is plussed up to A grade matk and the shots are generally cheap and plentiful, but you'll be buying a LOT of them.
all i can say is that css/cbps is such a pain to deal with. you have to consider the weight of shots as well. you cant grind more than a few hours with a c grade weapon unless you make frequent trips to town or have a mule following you. css + c bsps is the devil!!
p.s. any c grade archer will tell you how much they love an emi bow and ss use.
Yes, C Grade shot use is a pita. I'm very happy with B Grade though - and I don't think for PvE the slight additional damage output of an A Grade weapon outweighs not only the higher weapon cost but also the higher shot cost, when SSA isn't even lighter than SSB.
However, B > C for reasons outlined above. The only classes that should seriously consider sticking it out with C Grade weaponry are probably summoners and healers... although as a summoner, I'd want B just for the shot weight. ;p
Can anyone varify is it 20% or +5% pvp damage thats a huge diffence.
Never really considered weight for after 2 hours of grinding unless ur a bot running walker why wouldnt u take a break.
I can understand if u got a good room in the temple or 4specular that u want to stay there longer. Then again u never running solo and u always have a mule or buffer carry ur extra supplys. Theres always compress ss I use it quite often on my archers its a bit more but it keeps my weight down and allows me to stay for hours with out running back to town. I cant really see the argument that weight should be a huge factor.
If weight does hinder hours of non stop grinding then B grade should be a viable solution.
One last note a summoner who wants both high p attk and high m attack for heals an OE DS is most invaualbe.
unless ur a bot running walker why wouldnt u take a break.
Without a mule, I could go a whole fourty minutes in C Grade. Two hours of hunting and you take a break? Yes, certainly. Buta trip back to town, when it might have taken you half an hour to actually run to your current spot? Nuhuh.
You already use higher grade shots I think (I assume you don't carry a ton of SSC around with you). The weight difference between C and B Grade is immense, so go ahead and try hunting with a C Grade bow (or a C Grade dagger) for some time. You'll feel reliefed next time you re-equip B Grade.
As a nuker, it's not too relevant, but it still hurts.
DS is an absolutely idiotic weapon for a summoner trying to do damage. As I said - 40 minutes of hunting without any -CON tats or armour, and that's with a low shot consumption servitor, and using a sword. Enjoy your 20 minute hunting trips with a dagger...
You already use higher grade shots I think (I assume you don't carry a ton of SSC around with you). The weight difference between C and B Grade is immense, so go ahead and try hunting with a C Grade bow (or a C Grade dagger) for some time. You'll feel reliefed next time you re-equip B Grade.
Yes, cannot stress enough how BAD C grade shots are. On my alt SR, I could go about 2 rounds with an emi bow before shots and arrows ran out. You simply cannot carry more - I even started overweight. And it's the same with a C grade dagger.
A bit of maths:
B grade Kris with 9k BSS = 9k swings which hit (that's about what I can carry on my TH). 6k CSS weigh the same, and a Dark Screamer needs 3CSS compared to the 1BSS the Kris needs - so you get 2k swings which hit out of the same carrying capacity. So you can hunt 4.5 times longer with a B grade dagger than with a C grade one...
Similar problem with bows - 6k CSS translate into only 600 shots with an Eminence Bow (and you have to carry arrows, too! My SR had -con tattoos, so I could only carry about 5.5k CSS plus arrows...). C grade bow to B grade bow is the difference between having to restock every 2 rounds or every 2-3 hours.
If it's only 5% PvP damage then I can see myself sticking with +10 homu for a long time and not upgrading to A Grade (I upgraded armor to B, but not Weapon due to M'Atk/Price differences). The SE bot that I'm going to start leveling Monday will carry my extra shots/bones.
You will only be doubling your time if you load up your SE with shots/bones. If you can wear B grade on your necro, you are better off trying to level with CDL instead of DeathSpike if you do not have war tags.
Lets recap.
A grade is worth the money if you PvP
B grade is better than C grade for the amount of shots you can carry.
C grade is easy to find at +10 or better, but shot usage will drive you nuts.
I personally use C grade, I'm not willing to give up the power it adds to my nukes over B grade due to its enchanted status just to hunt longer. I have war tags on my head, so the shot usage is not as much of an issue. It is rare that I can get through 4k shots without being ganked or having to PvP. I carry the bare minimum of extra things on my subclass. No CP pots, 100 greater healing potions, 20 acu3 pots and 4k shots. This puts me at 48% or so when I am fully loaded with shots. 4k shots will earn me about 30% of a level right now. As I get closer to 61, I will be a whiny little jerk about the shot consumption.
Yes, C Grade shot use is a pita. I'm very happy with B Grade though - and I don't think for PvE the slight additional damage output of an A Grade weapon outweighs not only the higher weapon cost but also the higher shot cost, when SSA isn't even lighter than SSB.
However, B > C for reasons outlined above. The only classes that should seriously consider sticking it out with C Grade weaponry are probably summoners and healers... although as a summoner, I'd want B just for the shot weight. ;p
The difference between A and B is almost the same. In Bgrade my duels used 2 bss/bbsps per hit. In Agrade it’s only 1 per hit. And if you OE you’re a grade weapon there really is no comparison for exaple my +10 Dama*Dama has a higher Matk than a +3 SoM and Patk the same a Sgrade duels. I’ll post a pic after work on this thread.
I have a pretty good example for B grade armor being better than A grade armor.
A grade doesn't really have a "dagger" armor set. The closes would probably be DC Light (for the attack speed hence skill reset), or maybe majestic to lower the chance of being stunned.
I ended up +6ing my Doom light set. I now have almost the same p.def as I do with a DC set AND I have +8 DEX which is simply crazy as a Dagger.
You will only be doubling your time if you load up your SE with shots/bones. If you can wear B grade on your necro, you are better off trying to level with CDL instead of DeathSpike if you do not have war tags.
Lets recap.
A grade is worth the money if you PvP
B grade is better than C grade for the amount of shots you can carry.
C grade is easy to find at +10 or better, but shot usage will drive you nuts.
I personally use C grade, I'm not willing to give up the power it adds to my nukes over B grade due to its enchanted status just to hunt longer. I have war tags on my head, so the shot usage is not as much of an issue. It is rare that I can get through 4k shots without being ganked or having to PvP. I carry the bare minimum of extra things on my subclass. No CP pots, 100 greater healing potions, 20 acu3 pots and 4k shots. This puts me at 48% or so when I am fully loaded with shots. 4k shots will earn me about 30% of a level right now. As I get closer to 61, I will be a whiny little jerk about the shot consumption.
Don't know any places to CDL at level 52 (no agro/social mobs and mobs that don't cast 500dmg nukes). I started a thread but I don't think it got any replies (I'll check again).
DS is an absolutely idiotic weapon for a summoner trying to do damage. As I said - 40 minutes of hunting without any -CON tats or armour, and that's with a low shot consumption servitor, and using a sword. Enjoy your 20 minute hunting trips with a dagger...
why would you spam SS as a summoner? anything you personally could do would be piddle compared to what your summon can do. just load up on summon SS, and keep a few bsps for your weapon around just for resummoning, healing, etc.
only reason i could see for even swinging your weapon at a mob would be to activate a debuff cubic. for that, the increased attack speed of the dagger *might* be helpful, but that's doubtful.
Don't know any places to CDL at level 52 (no agro/social mobs and mobs that don't cast 500dmg nukes). I started a thread but I don't think it got any replies (I'll check again).
If you know any let me know! :)
about midway through dragon valley, there's a spot with just a spawn of dustwind gargoyles. they're level 53, non agro, non social.
but if you think that non-social, non-agro spawns are the only place you can CDL, you need to learn how to play the game better. north of ivory tower there's also a spot that has some agros, but it's also good xp for the sheer volume of mobs.
Spiritual Eye
It is a low A, 143Matk Mage Blunt that you can put Acumen on.
Can find em for 30mil (bare) on my server due to number of people subclassing...
Takes an Level 11 SA crystal (cheaper than 12) and you can put acumen on it. (either make the level 11 youself or beg and plead or just pay for it... figure 30 mil for crystal and SA costs.
30mil + 30mil = 60mil for an A-grade 143Matk weapon with the A grade PvP bonus and Acumen.
For 6-7mil per enchant you can make it 152Matk at +3 safely.
81mil for +3Spritual Eye with Acumen and PvP bonus.
It probably will resell for 80-90mil on most servers (mage subclasses are common)
Superior damage, realtively cheap (even compared to your overenchanted ones), it A grade so you get the PvP bonus... It uses A grade shots so 1x...
It's even blunt if you are of the orcish persuasion.
why would you spam SS as a summoner? anything you personally could do would be piddle compared to what your summon can do. just load up on summon SS, and keep a few bsps for your weapon around just for resummoning, healing, etc.
If you are both buffed, it can actually make a fair amount of difference... I'll be glad to capture my current percentage later if I play my summoner instead of my BH (but dwarves are so cute x_X).
There is of course also absolutely NO point wearing a DD weapon if you're not going to spam shots with it. :p
After reading this, I won't be in a rush to get an A grade weapon for my SH alt, when I get it that high. But what about a Destroyer with a GS and Lance, who does mostly PVE? Are they better off to just stick with B grade for while? (Say maybe lvl 70, for sake of argument.)
Nice to see that a post I wrote actually helpful to sway some to stick to there C grade or B grades weapons.
I guess I should of mentioned I am an l2 addict running 3 boxes on my system.
My name is OG; I am a victim suffering from toon dragging.
Also, it helps to swap out weapons a +10 homu or DS is most invaluable to my nest of toons.
When using multiple accounts and toons, keeping ur older C grade is another important factor to consider.
I can’t ever imagine leaving town with out my healers and buffers.
So, in my assumptions to ss consumption has and will probability never been a factor in weapon selection.
But I assuming this is not the case for those that do the one toon w/out oop buffer healers support.
I do overweight my archer with double the ss and arrows and drop the arrows when I hunt. And on occasion, when running low, I pick them up now then as needed. This trick almost doubles my ss and arrows. Don’t know if its feasible method to all especially if ur tagged for war and have to constantly look over ones shoulder.
I suppose ur fight or flight instincts keep ur inventory more geared for pvp excursions. Making A grade essential if not direly vital for survival. So the extra cp bless soe’s elixirs etc… will take a huge toll in the way ur inventory load plan works.
But if ur in a small clan with no real opposable enemy other then the random pker don’t need the extra 5 percent, don’t need to dish out the extra 40-60mil for the a grade.
I do find on occasion the spiritual eye, which I agree, a good solid alternative. But then again I see them slightly overpriced and it’s easily not found. That’s why I didn’t include any of the newer A grade weapons for that very same reason of availability.
Consider how high you'd have to enchant a BOP to match the p.atk of a Soul Bow or the new Shyeed. Then try enchanting one that high and get back to me. :D
Mage weapons, bah, a 143 matk weapon will get you through most of A grade if you have a pocket SE or demon set. At least for an SH.
And put me in the camp with everyone else who hates C grade spiritshots. I'd rather carry more B-blsps or A-blsps and cursed bones than have to reload every other buff round. Especially since the best XP spots are still a good distance from the port location.