Paladin or DA?

i need to choose between paladin and dark avenger which 1 should i choose?

da
but its the obvious unoriginal choice

i really luv DA :) however you only want a tank if youre gonna RB or rift

i dont recommend a tank class

tanks->useless in l2

yup
but at least da can do more than just tank

yeah :< and DA got cool panther :) wish rules big time only suxs when you get flagged and then need 2 summon your panther cause then your 2 late :P

if you plan on tanking >DA all the way they look so cool in nightmare

pally

Depends, do you intend to grind 14 hrs a day and make level 80 by next year? In that case, go pally.

ehm, doesnt pallys also get the **** "one hit angel" spell? which should mean you will gain more freakin xp than most of the classes solo.. at lvl 70ish.

Pally gets a one hit undead spell. DA gets a one hit angel spell. Both are too expensive to truly be worth using. They do have fear effects which are nice though.

However, touch of life is much greater than touch of death. Soul of the Phoenix is just...wow. The pally endgame set and DA endgame skillset are very similar, but I really think the pally's is better.

I play a DA and love it. Don't sacrifice your hp and use top oe weapons for damage and you can level relatively easily. cat helps too. I also used my da in a pole party to pull groups in the catacombs, high p.def and hate lets you keep large groups and healer isn't overworked. not sure how well that works though now that aoe has changed.

use top oe weapons for damage and you can level relatively easily

Also buy boss jewels and +6 armor sets! LOL where's the money comin from?

I love how half the people who reply in these threads aren't even tanks.

I play a DA and love it. Don't sacrifice your hp and use top oe weapons for damage and you can level relatively easily. cat helps too. I also used my da in a pole party to pull groups in the catacombs, high p.def and hate lets you keep large groups and healer isn't overworked. not sure how well that works though now that aoe has changed.

are poles the only melee AOE wep that a DA can use?

no, no, sirrush--the DA doesn't USE the pole in the AOE group. The DA pulls the mobs TO pole-users---who kill them.

A DA is interesting. Pally's would prob say the same. They're not glitzy and they're not flashy like the archers running all over.
Solid, can take a hit, the kitty is a glass cannon. Banish Seraph is 7 soul ore--and often reduces a high hp mob to 1 hp....in the cata's it's a blast to use.

The question BEFORE you ask DA or Pally is, "do you wanna be a party support toon--sometimes tank?"
If the answer is "yes"...then you decide DA or Pally.
If you wanna see stuff die fast as a melee toon--be an orc or dagger. Some party support plus damage dealer--be a BD or Spellsinger. If you wanna grief others--go archer like all the other punks.
Nuker to watch things disintegrate. Healer/Buffer if you like to read or catch up on sleep while you play.

I don't regret the DA choice. The panther has been a good companion. Fair crowd control. Good pdef. Crappy patk solo.

Depends what you like.

no, no, sirrush--the DA doesn't USE the pole in the AOE group. The DA pulls the mobs TO pole-users---who kill them.

Exept that a destro or even a WL will need less heal if he tank because VR + destro/WL damage >>> Tank Pdef in AOE group.


Fea

End game Paladin is probably far more powerful than an end game Dark Avenger. At least I think so, with a setup to maximize your Sacrifice skill, Touch of Life etc. If I were to choose I'd go Paladin, theres also less of them, too bad tanks aren't required for most exp.

The question is what you want provide to a party and if you plan on PvP too.
Most people suggest DA because of a few PvP skills and the panther.
While the panther is some nice summon and does a lot damage later on its also not free to maintain. Beside the normal hunt ( i even rarely see DAs with panther out ) you will only use the panther in planned PvP because when you get attaked your unable to summon it.
The few debuffs and PvP skills the DA provides might help in a battle but there are better classes for PvP.

The paladin on the other hand gets some nice skills vs Undead the holy armor and holy blade alone gets him even without buffs an advantage in more pdef and more damage vs undeads and there are lots in this game.
If you want some extra damage dealer a wolf can be your friend. He surely is no panther damage and pdef wise but deal some good damage too especialy when fully buffed and its much cheaper to maintain.
For PvP Pallys got root and mass root, all direction shield block and can actually heal other party members.
While that seems not to be much a good heal at the right time can change the battle too.

If you see it PvE solo wise ( and dont expect to many partys ) the Paladin seems to be better because of the self heals and the undead bonusses. Add in a Wolf would be something you wont see to often while a DA you see every day.

I love how half the people who reply in these threads aren't even tanks.

And i'm amazed at how not a single person talked about the "philosophy" of the two !
I mean, ok, i'm probably a worthless carebear RPer, but am i the only one to see just a small tiny difference between a Dark Avenger and a Paladin ??? To me, this game is still a MMORPG, so i would choose a Paladin if i want a "good" character and a Dark Avenger if i want an "evil" one...

I love how half the people who reply in these threads aren't even tanks.

And i'm amazed at how not a single person talked about the "philosophy" of the two !
I mean, ok, i'm probably a worthless carebear RPer, but am i the only one to see just a small tiny difference between a Dark Avenger and a Paladin ??? To me, this game is still a MMORPG, so i would choose a Paladin if i want a "good" character and a Dark Avenger if i want an "evil" one...



LoL yes i usually play Paladin in D&D games always the good hero like guy. Actually i made my paladin char in prelude but only lvld him to knight because i need the BH for equip and money. I always wanted to be paladin.
Im glad i lvld the Bountyhunter instead and later on the Paladin. Anyway booth are fun to play.

Except that a destro or even a WL will need less heal if he tank because VR + destro/WL damage >>> Tank Pdef in AOE group.

As a healer, my favourite puller is definitely a WL. They come in either with greater quantity of mobs than a tank can or more HP left, and then need less heals. ^^ If there has to be a tank there, I'd much prefer if that tank stayed in the corner to hate things that weren't getting hit enough off the healer and back into the polers' arc.

As a summoner, I feel that having a tank there is quite helpful, but due to their lack of shield def from behind, I can not honestly say I'd prefer a DA.

WL > all in tanking a huge train of mobs, provoke has longer range then hate aura, and not to mention how they can pull hp outta their *** when they're about to die (revival, battle roar) ive pulled huge trains on my WL with out a healer, with no other DD's and lived to collect my drops.

anyway on topic, DA is great if your going to be soloing all the way through the game, the panther is like an extra dd with out that much xp loss, Paladin has great crowd control (aoe shackle), can save other party members when you have a ******ed bishop/ee who screams lag after your dead, also they kick *** against undead mobs. angelic icon is pretty sweet too ... between the two Paladin is a much better tank then a DA.

I love how half the people who reply in these threads aren't even tanks.

/sigh
xlance, given what you do not know about tanks, Its really hard to believe you play one.

Why don't you post something useful for the new guy if you are so all-knowing...
Either that or you might try actually earning your way up this time and learn for yourself.


For the OP, Paladin and DA are very similar with a few flavor points... one is more defensive and the other offensive.
Remember that both classes are based on a defensive design.

-DA has a little better offensive flavor in his pet and offensive spells which hit everything. This allows him to deal damage a little better than a paladin, but does not make him anywhere close to a real damage dealing class. DA has some special skills against angelic opponents, and some very nice PvP skills as well. Do not forget that DA can still heal himself out of combat using his 35- heal spell...


-Paladin has a little more defensive flavor, having heals which hit other targets and the ability to sacrifice his own HP to give to others. Paladins have very little offense, but a paladin in angelic icon (30%HP or under skill) is reasonably impressive. Against undead, Paladins can nuke and hit much more solidly thanks to Holy Blade. Paladins may moonlight as spot healers in parties and thus have a secondary role. Paladins not tanking will be throwing Sacrifice to needy party members and using their melee and VR to regen it back. It actually works out very well.

Both human knights are powerful PvE tanks... I have reasonably tanked mobs 20+ levels higher than me and not only survived, but proved to be more effective than non-tank classes 15+ levels higher than me and thus tanked the entire night. (note that this would not work with the highest damage output parties)

Note that most parties do not need tanks 99% of the time unless the mobs they are facing hit particularly hard (raid bosses, dino island) for your early levels you will be recruited for raid bosses and then you wil spend the midrange levels being entirely ignored as a bladedancer or swordsinger is more than enough tank for most XP groups and also provides massively powerful buffs. High end groups don't usually use tanks as mobs die in a hail of arrows as they spawn.

In PvP, you will be ignored... which is sometimes a good thing. The problem is, you are ignored because you have a fraction of a percentage point to actually kill anything that isn't afk or massively incompetent. Thankfully enough there are plenty of completely incompetent level 78+ people. (Hi, you have boss jewels so my root doesn't land.... why didn't you run?)

Note that the whole point of a knight is to absorb damage and frankly dying to a hail of 3738392836282 arrows is strategically preferable to being completely ignored...

Both knight classes are a LOT better at solo than most people give them credit for... with HP herbs dropping as they do you are nearly invulnerable wherever they drop and you can kill with reasonable frequency.

Both knight classes should indeed carry a polearm.
(this isn't expensive now... go get a shadowed one if you know its a pole party) You have no bonuses with it, but you also have no penalties with it and the life you drain from VR makes up for the loss of a shield and it aids your aggro generation as well. Knights should not be afraid to use non-blunt/sword weapons as frankly your masteries are not really that impressive anyway.

but a paladin in angelic icon (30%HP or under skill) is reasonably impressive.

Hmm it is ? So far i only did see increase of atk speed and pdef when getting it on. What else does it add to make it impressive ? BTW i use a blunt so if it adds focus also it might just not be apply much to get noticed.

I agree on the solo part with wolf i can hunt almost nonstop because of the HP and MP herbs and i also take advantage from all other herbs.

At final level (74)

Atk Spd +30%
Critical +100
Accuracy +6
Speed(move) +30
Pdef +50%
Mdef +50%
Healing -80%

Earlier ranks provide less, but are still decent boosts.

For instance I think the crit bonus scales from +33 to +66 then +100

I also remember reading that the crit bonus does not apply to non-paladinesque weapons.

Oddly enough it sounds just about right that they would forget paladins can use blunts.

Both knight classes should indeed carry a polearm.
(this isn't expensive now... go get a shadowed one if you know its a pole party) You have no bonuses with it, but you also have no penalties with it and the life you drain from VR makes up for the loss of a shield and it aids your aggro generation as well. Knights should not be afraid to use non-blunt/sword weapons as frankly your masteries are not really that impressive anyway.

yah this is what i was thinking of considering DA dose not ge 360 block. Might as well help kill faster and use the AOE to help with hate controle. But i still am figuring out the best way for me to play( only been playing for 4 days or so)

My knight is a paladin...
Even with 360-degree shield blocking I generaly bring a polearm.
I have a macro to ready sword/shield with one button press and then hit the toggle to make my shield block 360-degrees while I pull... then when I get them aligned (and I am in front of my healer) I switch weapons to the polearm.

Losing that shield does indeed hurt... but the VR income from hitting 4 or so mobs helps quite a bit.

Note that paladins have a slight edge for AoE groups...

AoE Shackle is also another AoE hate in addition to rooting them at a pretty generous rate for an AoE.

Hmmm would reflect damage work well for this sort of thing? or dose that require a shield( more damage taken= more damge reflected back)

I don't think reflect damage requires a shield, but we'd have to ask a DA about that... pretty sure it works just like my spellsinger's freezing skin... (which it does not stack with)

Will it help in an AoE situation? Sure... but in a much more minor way than having the mobs stay on the tank and rooted.

I was never impressed with the damage reflected back by such skills...

it isnt alot but it helps if you get pounded by a tyrant glad bd

Yah, btw I hope you don't think I am picking on DAs...

Much respect for my darker brethren... tough buggers... and that pet is very potent as long as something doesn't focus damage on it. (hits hard, but doesn't last long under fire)

Reflect damage just sends damage back to mobs. Doesn't matter what direction they hit you from.

As for blocking--a really good tank I know was with me tanking one day as I pulled mobs to a corner...and reminded me to TURN AROUND in that corner and not leave my back to the mobs! Pretty simple fix at least when you're pulling--u usually can reorient before they all pile on.

The main problem isn't the damage you take in the corner (it is a given that any tank turns while in the corner) but the damage you take while pulling. In essence, there is NO point in a tank pulling if the tank can not come back having taken less damage than another heavy armoured class would have (i.e. one of the polers), and if you can't block from the back, that will be difficult.

Except that a destro or even a WL will need less heal if he tank because VR + destro/WL damage >>> Tank Pdef in AOE group.

As a healer, my favourite puller is definitely a WL. They come in either with greater quantity of mobs than a tank can or more HP left, and then need less heals. ^^ If there has to be a tank there, I'd much prefer if that tank stayed in the corner to hate things that weren't getting hit enough off the healer and back into the polers' arc.




Not a Paladin puller eh? Shield fortress and majesty while you run, aoe root and hate, 15 seconds to aoe the group while I grab a snack >.>

But I don't aoe with anything but nukers :p