Currently using an augmented +6 GS w/Focus (+8.9 critical on augment). Was wondering if getting an Infernal Master with Haste is a worthy investment. Swinging hard and fast, will that be good for a Destroyer.
My setup is:
Tallum, +4 str, +4 dex. With GSAP, atk speed is sitting at 513.
Infernal master is a C5 2H sword.
Perfect for a destroyer.
(can also put focus on the infernal master)
The reason destroyers want haste is to refresh their skills faster... The more often you are under the effects of your timered skills, the more damage theoretically...
However, focus is a powerful SA...
Haste is actually not a bad SA in comparison to focus now with crit buffs nerfed and active skills buffed, but it really does matter on how often you have death whisper and how much more often that 8% is going to help you stay in your timered specials.
well if its a top A 2 handed sword then yes its the way to go
the reason i would advise against haste sa vs focus however is that if you want the haste for faster skill refresh well you should really be useing a risk haste dagger instead
im just a dumb blunt user so i dont know much about these crits you guys speak of but i do know that if you have the choice between focus and anything else you always pick focus
haste vs focus is more regular hits over time vs more crits over time. while DW may have been nerfed, the primary way to maintain your HP as a melee is to crit while using VR. crits are where you get most of your hp back (frenzy aside). and as nameless said, using a rsk haste dagger (cursed or dark elven) offer a better % increase (8 from IF vs 13 from cursed/dark elven) for skill refresh rate.
Keep in mind that without death whisper (or some other crit mod on) 8% haste is actually MORE dps (and thus VR regen) than 68/71 critical. (7% more crits at x2 multiplier is 7% more damage)
With a crit damage multiplier applied, focus becomes more and more powerful... and indeed the destroyer can up his own crit power with viscious stance... however...
8% Haste stacks with GSAP and all other haste abilties and if it is up 100% of the time, helps regen skills 100% of the time (opposed to the risk haste on which only works at 60% or less health and only which you use that dagger)
I'd say haste isn't a bad option... its just looking at things a bit different.
It would indeed be interesting to see a parsed comparison between haste and focus with the Infernal master on a destroyer. (even if the focus destroyer was using that risk haste dagger)
Even better would be an unbuffed session (say 2 hours) and a buffed session (2 more)
Odds are the unbuffed destroyer would do more DPS and XP with the haste SA.
Odds are the buffed destroyer is better off with focus.
Note the Haste SA is less micromanagement as well.
To be fair, haste SA is also more expensive than focus will ever be.
For the OP, if your funds are limited, likely your +6 GS (especially given that you got a decent augment) is better for some time.... that is until you will be actively PvPing.
hmmm i do use a cursed dagger w/Rsk.Haste to get a better recharge time on rage/frenzy/etc. also i always have an SE (64) when partying, i guess i'll stick with the GS for now. even though the slight bump in atk.speed with Haste is always fun.
There are a lot of misunderstandings about triggering frenzy and guts about, so I'll clear up which speeds and factors matter where while we're at it.
1. Your attack speed when you trigger the skill. The attack speed at any other given time has no impact on the reuse timer.
2. Your weapon equipped while the skill is cooling down will have an impact on the length of the reuse timer (as opposed to how fast it counts down).
Risk focus dagger and then a swap back to a focused (or hasted) sword are indeed the best combination A) because risk SA is active anyway when you trigger guts or frenzy (30% HP to trigger the skill, only 60% needed to activate risk SA), and B) because the dagger has a higher base attack speed. : )
That said, I personally prefer focus, especially if you often hunt with buffs. ^^
Woo... learned something today... Thanks maline...
Guess I'll need to grab something with risk haste on it for some skill reuse manipulation... odds are I can throw AI and UD faster that way.
Still... haste is indeed more useful than it used to be in comparison... and skills that you would use in combat (that cannot be used without a sword/2H sword) also refresh faster.
Note that you wil always (even ironman solo) have haste2 due to GSAP.
Even with the pocket buffer... I bet most people would be surprised at how close haste is to focus now for damage - even buffed with a pocket buffer.
quick L2calc numbers
(not adjusted for interlude crit damage nerfs)
62 Destroyer
Tallum plate
Majestic jewels
Everything safely enchanted
+3 Infernal Master
DPS VS test mob
(Buffers are considered to be equal level or around there)
Unbuffed except GSAP
SA = haste -> 296.9
SA = focus -> 295.9
(think we can agree that this difference is marginal, but haste does win by a slight margin)
SE buffed + GSAP
SA = haste -> 387.4
SA = focus -> 402.1
(haste = 96% of the damage of focus)
SE and BD dances + GSAP
SA = haste -> 557.7
SA = focus -> 607.1
(haste does around 92% of the damage that focus does)
SE, BD, BoQueen + GSAP
SA = haste -> 645.2
SA = focus -> 712.6
(even with three stacking crit buffs haste SA is 90% of the damage of focus SA)
SE, BD, BoQueen, Hunter + GSAP
SA = haste -> 802.6
SA = focus -> 861.1
(adding hunter closes the distance to haste being 93% of the damage of focus SA!)
Please keep in mind this is BEFORE the crit damage nerf.
The actual numbers will be closer now due to those changes.
Important to note that focus is still better.... but not as much as most people think, and only noticeably better when buffed.