Hi all,
Im looking for some feedback on the Dark Avenger and Paladin classes. First off, I know about all the "tanks suck" stuff and so on, so no need for those :)
I would like to hear the positive things about the classes if possible.
Also, the DA panther, how much does it costs to exp with. How often does it consume a crystal? How does it compare to a equal level wolf pet is top store armor?
How are the paladin heals? What about the extra dmg vs. undead? Is it mostly just fluff or does it actually make a difference?
1) "Normal" Heals (Holy Blessing)
Costs Mana and time to Heal
This spell heals for a reasonable amount and is comparable to heals from healers 5-6ish levels lower than the paladin only the spell heals all the damage at once. Most people are impressed with how much it actually does, but then see how long it takes to cast...
These heals have two downsides:
-They are expensive... paladins do not have a lot of mana and they cannot maintain these heals long.
-They are SLOW. Paladin cast speed is not high to begin with, but these spells are slow as molasses.
2) Sacrifice
Sacrifice takes HP from the Paladin and give it to the target.
This is the single most underestimated skill in the game IMHO.
The amount healed is amazing... a level 6x paladin will heal for over 1000pts of damage extremely quickly. Note this will cost 1200+ of ther paladin's HP.
There are no other costs.... ZERO mana is consumed for the spell... just HP and a tiny amount of cast time and a reasonable cooldown.
A smart party gets VR somehow anyway and a non-tanking paladin with VR provides fast 1000pt+ heals quite often for something he is regenerating through melee anyway.
Extra damage vs undead comes from holy weapon (holy attribute to melee) and undead nukes.
The nukes aren't bad at all being both quite efficient and fast... I use it to pull in undead-filled areas and it deals 1000-1200 damage very quickly using a melee (non-mage) weapon and a bsps.
Holy weapon is massively underestimated as well being a free 10-30% damage increase against anything listed as "weak to holy". Note that some mobs are weaker than others to this attack. The best part is you can turn it on or off at will as some mobs are resilient to holy.
go for Paladin, over all its a better tank, and who can forget paladins get an aoe root. and of course Angelic Icon which increase your pdef and attack speed when your under 30% hp, and there is also their lethal strike skill against undead mobs, and they get an aoe skills that lowers patk of surrounding undead mobs.
there really isnt much to say about a DA, their skills are mostly useless, the panther is nice in pve except for the fact that it takes away xp to use it, but its like having a 2nd dd in party with out losing a 2nd person worth of xp. (but of course they're expensive to use c crystals & beast soulshot)
other then that they dont really stand out much compared to a paladin, DA's skills are mostly useless (i.e. - drain health is slow to cast and doesnt really have any use.) they do get hamstring, hamstring isnt really all that great, might aswell root the person to stop them from running at all.
i loved my panther ^^ they do some crazy damage w/ shots. and 5 c crystals cost about 15K for 20 minutes i believe, they're also a great asset in PvP as a second target for your enemy which means more survivability for you.
I always thought Dark Avenger was a pretty decent class. But I have noticed that none in my clan is currently playing one. There is a few Shilien knights tho.
As paladin, would it be doable to exp with 2hander to speed it up abit? Or will that just slow me down (rest/hp)?
Truthfully, shield block is a LOT more useful than most give it credit for...
I was originally going to use a 2H weapon, but the reality was that the 1H does almost as much damage and the shield helps a LOT when you don't have VR.
You can set up a macro to switch shield up to get a stun in (I do this often for pole parties) if you go this path, but frankly, I think you will find yourself better off using a 1H sword.
The only way I could see a 2H sword taking over my 1H+shield combo is if I could enchant/buy a 2H weapon of +6 or more so that the bonus overenchant patk would actually place the 2H weapon that much higher over the 1H.
C grade, you can try it for yourself as you can swap a berz blade for an SLS.
B grade, you are gonna have a hard time beating a damascus/focus+shield. The greatsword/focus is a low B weapon and it just doesn't outpace the damascus unless it is massively overenchanted. (don't forget 1H weapons are faster swinging)
A grade, the Infernal Master/focus is actually quite tempting as there is nothing really in its league unless you get a +8 or higher damascus... (good luck)
Honestly, the Dark Legion Edge just looks and feels so right... too bad it doesn't have focus SA.
Well, I was thinking that if I go paladin, I would try and level a wolf up with me. Since it has great P.Atk and cheap foodwise, it would be nice to help kill mobs faster.. but it comes with 30% exp loss when I checked. That alot more then the 10% panther. But leveling a wolf is a pain the in bum and I would prolly go broke on b. res pet scrolls lol
just grab yourself a polearm, and use that to level with, a tank should beable to tank a train of mobs pretty good, and you can always use UD & an elixir to save ya.
as for using a 2-handed sword, not really a good ideal, what makes a tank, a tank is shield blocking, its like evasion to a dagger.
If you've ever been as an EE (seek them out: They're a tank's best friend), you'll never want to even think about ditching your shield again. I find VR tanking with a shield easier, because tanking with VR is after all a mixture of taking little damage and doing a lot - and the positive effect that shields have on your defense far outweighs the bit of offense you might gain by equipping a two-hander.
Wolves take xp depending on how much damage it does to the mob. You should be able to keep mobs off it with hate, but it's true it's tricky in places with a lot of aggro mobs. And then there's the matter of getting gear for it. It's not cheap for a new player.
Aggro isnt really the problem i've faced so far. Its more wierd "bugs" or features if you will. Like, when you exp on Ol Manhum and they "run away". The mobs that spawn will not stop until the wolf is dead, no matter what you do.
You should go places that are a bit more safe, where the mobs don't run away, though the xp may be lower. I have never had unexpected problems with my wolf. I always go to places where mobs don't pull annoying stunts that gets it killed. But I let it kill stuff on its own, so my focus is always on the wolf and keeping it alive.
Hehe, i level my wolfy with my EE and my EE only.
Buff it, send it and hit those heals at the correct time.
It was hard to get that timing down at first, but if it dies, hell i got an 80% rez, who cares.
Also, to the OP. You must understand a wolf may take 30% XP from you, or whatever % it takes depending on damage dealt. But that wolf levels with you. You panther will just become better when you get a new skill for it.
IMO which prof you chose depends on a few factors. First, how often will you be in a group, and will you have prophet buffs. If you have buffs all the time, i would chose the DA. Buffing you and the panther makes for faster lvling than the paladin. The higher lvl panther does alot of damage with shots. The shots are not that expensive in comparison to what you will earn while xp'ing. I like playing my DA becasue the panther keeps things from getting boring while soling.
I play a Paladin with wolf too. I can say the wolf helps a lot if you solo. When herbs drop too you can hunt almost nonstop with a wolf without using ss on you or wolf when facing undead.
The wolf does less damage then a panther and also have less pdef but he will cost less and is tradeable.
You will also get holy armor and all direction shield block else i agree what other ppl already said about paladins.
By the way i use blunts on my paladin they dont crit to much but give also extra damage to bone undeads that will add up with holy blade selfbuff.
My 52 setup was BW and aoba with haste sa. I had not much problems to lvl. My A setup is tallum and meteorshower with focus sa.
Dont go for 2 handed sword you will love the shield block.
Go Paladin, when you are high lvl (76+) you can advance your Paladin to Phoenix Knight and you will get better heal,better defense and self rez skill which restores 100% exp,hp,cp and mp when you die ^ ^ this is the only class that has that skill, other class dont.....
wow stop sending this guy down the path of oblivion.
DA is what its all about for a human tank.
The Panther >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wolf any day of the week.
Seriously, go da and be happy.
Yes because everyone says so......
I think there are a lot posts why ppl think DA is better the most argument is because of the panther. Take away his panther and what u got ?
Its no secret that tanks play alone most of the time. With just one acc without getting buffs the Paladin is a little better suited for solo play because of the undead skills add in a wolf and you dont really need to use ss.
Also spoilers will love you in serveral aerias like fields of massacre while you kill undeads fast and heal if needed they spoil a lot nice stuff and they wont be able to hunt alone there that good and fast.
With buffs its a different story and sure without a wolf Paladin can be slow.
Paladins don't level faster, but they are still the vastly better tanks. ;) I guess if you want to play as a heavy-armoured sorta-DD the DA is the choice, but if you want to tank, go Paladin.
DA dmg out put is minimal keep that in mind its better in pve pvp and just a lil worse 2 tank BUT you will only tank in rift and RB so WHO CARES :P DA looks cooler +cooler name +cooler skills+ panther ++++ DA ftw ^^
I'll try not to be biased as I had a DA and am currently making another on a different server.
Pally's are THE BEST TANK for undead. Ever. However I've found that people playing them are constantly on alts because, lets face it, without a party and XPing/questing outside of an undead area is slow. Unbelievably slow.
DA is expensive. C crystals, pet SS are needed for soloing and the cost will knock you back if you're not prepared for it. And how can we forget how much hate Reflect Damage builds on Raid mobs, seriously, a raid hitting you for 1k damage will have 150-300 reflected back... plus your attack.... plus your agression/hate.
In PvP, Sieges and non-undead Raids it's hard to beat a skilled DA. Just back yourself against a wall and the pally's 360 shield block is null and void. You have the same health as a Pally, but equipped with a HP armor and a Haste/Crit Drain/focus wep, or a HP wep and +STR armor, and you're a force to be reckoned with in Pvp.
I once saw a castle siege on Sieghardt where the entire clan defending had left 20 DA's and a couple of healer/buffers as a tank wall and swanned off to attack another castle. It took an hour to break down the walls with 50 or so attackers, and even then the DA's held he castle to the end.
But seriously... it depends on what YOU want, what YOUR mindset about tanking is.
You want to be killing in Pvp, keeping agro and being active all the time? Go DA.
Want to tank AND heal, save lives in Pvp and generally be the nice guy who pulls for the lowbies? Go Pally.
Well, I got 28 and put the toon on hold for now and started a SE. Not cause I want to box really, but more because I think im just not cut out for the tank class. Im a support player at heart and the human knight heals is just terrible. Think im better of playing a real support toon hehe.
But great discussion guys and thanks for all the inputs.
And mmo law states that if a class has heals, it must level slow and do less damage. I was already prepared for that with the paladin.
DA dmg out put is minimal keep that in mind its better in pve pvp and just a lil worse 2 tank BUT you will only tank in rift and RB so WHO CARES :P DA looks cooler +cooler name +cooler skills+ panther ++++ DA ftw ^^
and rolf you lv with SS doh only bots dont
DA is cool, yeah I know but their panther is just a crap, most nuker or archer fully buffed can two shots that cat, and thats it....its just a waste of crystal to summon it....
Sigge why not try a Blade Dancer? Get to have some fun killing stuff and you get to be a support class that everyone wants in a group :-)
I have a 62 bladedancer on bartz... but seriously, pressing the same 3 buttons every 3 or was it 5minutes get so anoying after a while. Then throw in Swordsinger you have to time your dances with and it... :confused:
I have 52 SE which I stoped playing cause the clan didnt want active ones, **** boxing hehe. So I made a bladedancer and dancing was fun in the beginning but when exp sessions started to reach 3-4 hours plus, I really started hating it hehe. And I would rather play the SE, thought and still do, that its a super cool class. I solo'd mine from 40 to 52.. that's solo not boxing or what ever, hehe. Great class =)
Pather takes less xp away, hits harder, has more p.def.
Funny that what i said before.....
DA has more DD skills.
Oh really ? tell me what he got more ? The life drain ? Thats what the paladin traded for holy blessing and sacrifice. Holy strike works on undead only but its also a nuke.
Corpse plage ? works if u have more then one mob on you how often you use it really ?
Just shut up with your paladin lvls faster with a wolf and WITHOUT SS? LOL
Never said he lvls faster go reread. But the wolf helps lvl the paladin in solo play a lot. You dont need to use ss on Paladin and wolf. If booth attack its like if the Paladin plays alone while using shots. Maintain the wolf with food is cheaper then spam ss.
who lvls without ss in todays l2, seriously.
I often do depending on mobs and if im in party or not.
Fo example i party with a clanmates Bounty hunter in fields of massacre. Really good spoils there. We need to hunt without ss else he runs out of mp to fast. He uses all mp pots but still runs out.
Also why spam ss if you dont need to ? Making a little extra sounds ok to me.
Dont listen to the scrubs out there and do yourself a favor, go DA
Nope i lvl also without ss on my Paladin and Bounty hunter.
I cant afford spamming ss all time. I dont make that kind of cash to afford ss only by hunting.
If you need to "play the market" to afford you will also need time to do so. That time i can still lvl so in the end it might be the same time invested or maybe not.
So according to your logic if someone spams ss all time and dont play the market he must be a Adena buyer.
Well, I have a 40 something overlord which was the last thing I did before quitting last time. What I don't like about orc casters is the fact that you run so fast out of mana. Basically as warcryer you buff, then just autoattack for the next 20minutes.