i am tired of adena sellers

Hello! I am tired of receiving private message from adena sellers... it is very annoying.. I dont want to write any petitions and etc... i just want you to clean giran of those morrons. They send pms to every ppl in Giran.

[Franz server]

Well, unless you petition them how are they gonna nail those guys? Start going thru all the text logs randomly?

I dont care how, it's their job. Mine job is another. I pay money for L2 and I want receive complete service.

Well, I got alot of those in WoW aswell. So I got an addon that instantly made petition with the text, name and so forth. I figured, if I have to take the spam, then im surely going to make sure that blizzard get it everytime aswell.

Those guys create accounts just as fast as they are banned. What do you want the GMs to do about it? Instead of [censored]... use your head. It's their job to ban them. Not cater to some whiny kid who thinks he has more rights than he actually does. You pay to keep your account active. You pay to play the game. If you don't want to report... fine, but never demand anything you do not have rights to. Don't tell them to solve a problem without taking things into consideration yourself. Don't cry.

QQ

QQQQQQQQQQQQ

In WoW they banned gold seller in a 5 mins after petition... if I petition in L2 it takes 12-18 hours to ban that person.

There have been a lot of bots and a lot of these people shouting in game recently. There was a free trial period recently and the dodgy element has taken advantage. The offer has finished and the free trial period will soon run out on the last of the accounts. This should hopefully remove a lot of the new bots and some of the adena shouters.

ok.. but of ncsoft gives trial accounts they could have some GMs reading petitions and ban such ppl... Last time person who was selling adena and was shouting in giran for every 1-2 seconds was banned after 12 hours of spamming... Blizzard do such job in 5 mins!!!!!!

QQ

Apples and oranges. Blizzard obviously has a great deal more money involved here in the US for support.

12 hours isn't that long unless you are playing that entire time just watching the spam.

Go to Blizzard then. If this is so big a thing for you I bet you dont have what it takes to grind.

In WoW theres a lot of Gm ppl and Blizzard is recruiting more atm to solve the Bots and Gold sellers...

Would be a nice think to see appen in L2, yesterday i take one hour to do a quest i usually did before in 15 minutes...

Really it has been pretty bad lately. Maybe it is cause of the trial accs. Anyhow.. you petition 1 shouter.. 4 hours later you notice there are another 3 shouters.. Even though i got a reply that the first name i petitioned could not be found so i petitioned it again, this time with a correct name.
Makes me wonder why didn't they remove it? :O

Giran should have it's own live Gm during day/evening.
This GM could keep an eye open for this kind of stuff. and have a look at shops that stand up and sit down in a new full shop in a split second after they sold out.

It is because of the trial accounts.

What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

Yeah! seems pretty dumb that they don't do that already.

It's like showing water out of a sinking boat instead of fixing the leak.

It is because of the trial accounts.

What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

and what about:

1) dynamic IPs
2) city-wide WANs

Don't know if in your nation you have static IPs and one IP per internet connection only, but here in Italy we're used to dynamic IPs and our most powerful broadband fiber optics connection provider uses a WAN distribution covering entire cities with a single IP...

Hmm.. That's right. Just ban Aisa then. They banned us.

Petition them !
Its as you say, if you have to live with the spam, make sure they do too :D
You cant expect them to act on tells you recieve from adena sellers though, its called private message for a reason

QQ

you come across as an arrogant [censored] in every single post you make

at first some honesty was refreshing, but reading irrelevant arrogance in almost every single thread on these forums...

"qq", "learn 2 play", and similar phrases reminds me of the kiddies from WoW, you know, the kind that doesnt have much going for them in real life and need to belittle everyone they meet in the game and thinks they are tough when they can talk down on someone on a forum

It is because of the trial accounts.

What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

Been saying that for ages, would reduce bots so much. I don't know the legal side of things tho, but if they don't do it soon there only be kdjfkdfhjks left on the servers.

On a side note, if real players didnt ebay gold bots wouldn't be here.

Hmm.. That's right. Just ban Asia then. They banned us.

fix & QFT.

most players hate not being able to play this game directly from the source so why we just don't block the problem?.

you come across as an arrogant [censored] in every single post you make

careface

Really. I don't have to justify my actions here. I do not like the guy... so I will say to him what I like. Not only does this guy hassle me in Giran... on Blah, where I am a mod at.. he is a self proclaimed "botter by hobbie". Already having reasons to not like the guy... he goes off on other botters while being stuck up about it~

Hmm.. That's right. Just ban Asia then. They banned us.

fix & QFT.

most players hate not being able to play this game directly from the source so why we just don't block the problem?.



Only problem here is that normal players from Asia also play on US servers. They would get banned as well.

It is because of the trial accounts.
What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

What they need to do is start banning adena buyers.

Hmm.. That's right. Just ban Asia then. They banned us.

fix & QFT.

most players hate not being able to play this game directly from the source so why we just don't block the problem?.



Only problem here is that normal players from Asia also play on US servers. They would get banned as well.



Well. They can play on Korean can't they?

Why get all worked up about it? I was here on release day. Within two weeks, there were adena farmers (rang rang, you go!) in all the decent places. I played for a year, then left. Now I'm back playing again to see what is the same and what is changed. There are still adena farmers.

You know what? Even if NCSoft devoted 50% of its revenue stream to fighting adena farmers and the buying and selling of adena, there would still be adena farmers. They are a fact of playing.

It's not just LII. Go into any other MMO and they are there. Maybe not as visible; maybe more so; but they'll be there, none the less.

So, why bicker about it. Who cares? Really. Bots are killing themselves on guards? Eh, I ignore them. Plat sellers sending whispers? Eh, I ignore them too. They are beneath my notice. If the game were real life, they'd be the homeless beggers ... an annoyance, but that's about all.

If you feel it worth your time and effort, send in a petition about them, then forget em and move on.

You pay to play the game - play the game. If the adena farmers are really ruining it for you that much, well, then I find myself wondering, why do you pay to play this game?

(Why did I post this? Because I'm b@w and have nothing better to do.) :)

It is because of the trial accounts.
What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

What they need to do is start banning adena buyers.



Yes offcourse. But is there any possible way to see if someone ebayed? I mean they can see logs if they know what to look for. but can you prove that you have payed real world money for the money someone in game gave you :x
I think problem would be solved long ago if it was possible.

I don't know how to quote 2 ppl in same post so i make 2 :|

I propose that everyone who says that there should be more GMs also volunteers to up their personal monthly fee to $150 to help fund this. This higher fee would also apply to everyone who fails to report cheaters to the GMs because they are making the GMs job harder.

I also agree that people who buy adena/toons/anything should be banned, since they are the cause of the selling/botting.

He is still shouting in giran!
NCSOFT WHAT THE **** I PAY YOU?

Hmm.. That's right. Just ban Asia then. They banned us.

fix & QFT.

most players hate not being able to play this game directly from the source so why we just don't block the problem?.



Only problem here is that normal players from Asia also play on US servers. They would get banned as well.



Well. They can play on Korean can't they?



I have a few players from Asia in my clan. They all have 78 / 78 toons. Making those useless is kinda harsh.

banning the BUYERS ?

who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?

The reason selling adena is illegal is because a 3rd party is profiting off NCSofts product, not because they do it to be nice to us. The sole reason they give it a second thought is because someone is making money off their product without them getting a share of it

Also, this game (and all other korean MMOs) are made for ebaying, its a status symbol the same as a fancy car is in europe/usa or being overweight is in africa. If you have the money to ebay it means you are well off

I propose that everyone who says that there should be more GMs also volunteers to up their personal monthly fee to $150 to help fund this. This higher fee would also apply to everyone who fails to report cheaters to the GMs because they are making the GMs job harder.

I also agree that people who buy adena/toons/anything should be banned, since they are the cause of the selling/botting.

I disagree with the first part of your message.

Finding bots in this game is so incredibly easy it's not even funny. This is not EQ, where someone can have MacroQuest running and actually make the bots have a conversation with the GM while they are away form the computer, or **** through GM invisibility and have their computer shout "GM in Zone/on Server" when a GM logs on. It also isn't other MMOs, where there are less than 5 bots in a certain zone/area, and the bots are not in the best/most saught after spots in the zone.

They are running around wiping zones out and keeping them clear, shouting and selling/advertising in Giran, etc.

The only reason why these people feel confident enough to do such things is becasue NCSoft is slow/inefficient at responding to it. If they are lacking of funds, up the subscription cost by about buck and with their "over 14 million subscribers" they should be able to deal with the problem (like SOE did by upping the subscription by 2 USD and not many people complained about it at all).

It really isn't the fault of the players for not petitioning, they should have had a system in place to counter it at least on a low-grade type of scale. SOE has scripts that alarm them when people use warp hacks/etc. NCSoft should have had an easy system to see who a certain toon was trading with, that way they know who purchased gold from a seller. That, or had more active GMs. Asians don't demand high salaries like US workers in this type of job, so money is not an excuse. Look at all the US companies outsourcing the INdia for the same reason - it's cheaper and they actually make money doing it. Eliminating the botters would actually bring more Legit players to L2 - I'm sure the botters have their fair share of trial keys to use to farm adena/PL toons, anyways...

Report the seller, and the log has all his customers in it:

Trade: xSellerx xBuyerx xAmountOfAdenax

Then ban both parties... It's a log, so you can see if it's just a normal player giving something to someone else or it's a toon being used exclusively for trading adena to other players...

During SOE's last mass banning, everyone who traded plat with a plat seller's toon was banned, down multiple levels - and rightfully so, IMO. And no, these weren't small quantities of platinum...

And they can have their GMs looking ar this every tuesday when they bring the servers down for maintenance. Ban them during downtime so they can't log back into the game.

12 hours is an exageration, I'm still looking at the same bots running around VoS. It's been over a week, and whenever I kill or train them someone from a "special clan" on the server comes to PK me with a bot army at his or her command, daring you to stop them from taking your drops and your XP spot. So whatever...

you come across as an arrogant [censored] in every single post you make

careface

Really. I don't have to justify my actions here. I do not like the guy... so I will say to him what I like. Not only does this guy hassle me in Giran... on Blah, where I am a mod at.. he is a self proclaimed "botter by hobbie". Already having reasons to not like the guy... he goes off on other botters while being stuck up about it~



well, personal attacks and such is perhaps better suited for blah, its nice to have a forum (this) that isnt littered with flames and unfriendlyness

It is because of the trial accounts.
What they need to do is start banning IP addresses.

What they need to do is start banning adena buyers.



Yes offcourse. But is there any possible way to see if someone ebayed? I mean they can see logs if they know what to look for. but can you prove that you have payed real world money for the money someone in game gave you :x
I think problem would be solved long ago if it was possible.

I don't know how to quote 2 ppl in same post so i make 2 :|



actually , this would be very easy to tell
simply have a log set up for all adena trades.
use a sorting program like vedit to sort the logs alphabetically which will allow you to see patterns of trades for LARGE quantities of adena. now if a toon pops up with so many trades for lets say between 20-100 mil with no items being traded to them.. you found yourself an adena seller and their list of customers. bust out the ban hammer and your good to go.

its actually disgustingly easy to catch people exploiting on servers but only if you have your logs set up to do so and people with a clue checking them.

its as easy as dl the log from the server, sort and scroll thru looking for patterns.

banning the BUYERS ?

who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?

The reason selling adena is illegal is because a 3rd party is profiting off NCSofts product, not because they do it to be nice to us. The sole reason they give it a second thought is because someone is making money off their product without them getting a share of it

Also, this game (and all other korean MMOs) are made for ebaying, its a status symbol the same as a fancy car is in europe/usa or being overweight is in africa. If you have the
money to ebay it means you are well off

i havent heard something this ******ed in a long time (1 week)

OK banning IP's is a seriously bad idea because if your on a dynamic ip system from your isp chances are you might end up with one of the ip's that are banned and then where does that leave you ? also banning asia is another bad idea because 1) it stops us playing with peeps from half the planets peoples 2) it lowers the revenue of the NA servers which in turn would end up with the subscription costs going up or even in the most drastic case the NA servers being closed due to not being profitable i mean remember ncsoft is a company first gamers second .
upping subscription costs would only end up with same situation many peeps are already ****** at the game for one reason or another if you up the cost they will leave to go find another game at lower costing now dont get me wrong i hate botting i think its stupid to pay for a game then allow a computer to play it for you BUT if they cant seem to erase the bots problem one possible fix would be to allow all players to bot which would quickly put the players in direct competition with the true botters who caused the mess in the first place and as for asia banning us from their servers its not because we have bots or adena sellers that they banned us imo its because they are scared of us and our love of the pvp system we would destroy them and take over the asia servers within a year easy rofl

RampantLiones
A GOOD WAR SMITH IS AN HONOURABLE ONE :)

In WoW they banned gold seller in a 5 mins after petition... if I petition in L2 it takes 12-18 hours to ban that person.

Lies. Seriously I played WoW since beta, and when the bots started appreaing upon the release or someone advertising gold, it does not take 5 minutes. Just becuase they send you an e-mail telling you the matter has been taken care of, does not mean they followed through. They got smart and realized that if they did that they would keep people like you off the boards spamming threads about how you want it stopped. It takes just as long on L2 then it does on WoW. Trust me.

I am not sure if I am more tired of adena sellers or the adena buyers.

The guy who cryed out:
"banning the BUYERS ?
who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?"
Is the reason for all this $%& :mad:

People who do not care about others in a social environment because of their egocentric should play single games no MMORPGs.
People who can not play a parlour game without breaking the rules of the game are at the wrong place, especially If they say like a little 5 year old child: "who are you to say what I have to do, I do what I want!"

banning the BUYERS ?

who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?

The reason selling adena is illegal is because a 3rd party is profiting off NCSofts product, not because they do it to be nice to us. The sole reason they give it a second thought is because someone is making money off their product without them getting a share of it

Also, this game (and all other korean MMOs) are made for ebaying, its a status symbol the same as a fancy car is in europe/usa or being overweight is in africa. If you have the money to ebay it means you are well off

Jesus.. Are you serious? Most ppl who play Lineage 2 arent exactly from poor places. It's just that.. WHY would i pay for in game assests with real world money? It would be admitting i suck at the game so i have to get my gear by other means.
It's just plain wrong. nothing to do with being able to afford it or not. Dumbest post i've seen in a long time. Hope you get caught.

RampantLiones, in response to the dynamic ip issue, I am sure that if they wanted to, NC Soft would be able to contact their ISP, (doing something, I have no clue what) to keep them from coming back~

banning the BUYERS ?

who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?

The reason selling adena is illegal is because a 3rd party is profiting off NCSofts product, not because they do it to be nice to us. The sole reason they give it a second thought is because someone is making money off their product without them getting a share of it

Also, this game (and all other korean MMOs) are made for ebaying, its a status symbol the same as a fancy car is in europe/usa or being overweight is in africa. If you have the money to ebay it means you are well off

Jesus.. Are you serious? Most ppl who play Lineage 2 arent exactly from poor places. It's just that.. WHY would i pay for in game assests with real world money? It would be admitting i suck at the game so i have to get my gear by other means.
It's just plain wrong. nothing to do with being able to afford it or not. Dumbest post i've seen in a long time. Hope you get caught.



But there is some merit to the post, even if it is not an acceptable idea.

People don't sit there and say "god, i really suck at this, I guess the only way to play is to spend real world money. hate to do this but there is no other way".

What most likely happens is that there are aspects of the game they love and aspects of the game they despise. By spending some of their own real life currency (which I certainly hope is not taking away from rent!) they are mitigating the parts of the game that they dislike AND in some cases giving them an advantage.

And remember, not everyone views the spending of money the same way.

Case in point. I would have absolutely no problem in hiring a cleaning person for my apartment. I don't like stopping to clean and it would be so much easier to just pay someone a nominal fee to wash the kitchen floor. Or if there was a porch where I had to shovel the snow, I would be the first person to give some neighborhood kid a good chunk of money to do this.

My apartment mate is the opposite. To him it is beyond unthinkable to pay anyone to do your cleaning and shoveling. He would view it as an insult to who he is.

But I personally don't care, I hate shoveling.

So to carry it over. The person who is saying "why should I be told what to spend my money on" is just saying that he has earned his money, he supposedly (and hopefully) has paid all of his bills, attended to his responsibilities, and if he sees a place where applying his real life money will enhance his enjoyment of the game play then he will use it. (and I'm not suggesting that he ACTUALLY does this, I think he is saying that if he wanted to do this he would do this because of the freedom to use his resources how he wants).

The fly in the ointment though is that this is not socially acceptable in MMOs. I don't really know if it is considered acceptable in Korea. I hear all sorts of things. I hear that this is no big deal, that it is common etc. But then I see NC saying that they work hard to stop this practice everywhere their games are played. this then indicates that it isn't considered part of their game play plan.

Look, there are obviously people who are ready and willing to spend real world money on games. Many think it stupid, cheating, worse than ****** (to listen to some people go on about it), or just a waste of real world money.

Obviously enough people do it to keep adena sellers in business. There is a demand for it. And there is a segment (and considerable segment) of the population who does this.

Apparently it is not easy to catch and ban these players/sellers. If it were you would not see these sellers on the net. Game makers would just flip the switch and they would be gone. But they are in every popular game out there. From WoW to L2 to LOTRO to Eve.

Game makers speak at length and argue at length as to how to handle this.

So in the end, until game makers decide not to have the free economies, or not to use money or design their game where items and currency are of no real value, this will continue.

You can either go nuts about the whole thing or tacitly accept it until you see a chance to make a difference. Believe me, the hawkers in Giran are beyond intrusive. I've reported them every time I've seen them and have been in shock as to why it takes an entire weekend to stop them.

But in the end I have but two choices. I either play or not play. And I can't subscribe to the "out of sight out of mind" theory where it is ok to play in a game with instances and that those games are better with bots because you don't see them whereas if you do see them then the company is not doing anything.

Is that what needs to happen? Does NC need to add some heavy instances where people could grind all day and night without being seen? Because if they did you probably wouldn't see any bots in game anymore. They would all be doing their own thing. Doesn't solve the problem though.

So I choose to play and to report when I can. I don't go nuts and scream and yell because for me that is no way to live. I report and continue to play. If it ever does end up being impossible to continue I'll just stop playing. No big deal. there are plenty of other things to do.

Yeah. I'm not going nuts over other ppl ebaying cause i play my game and they play theirs.
Allthough I do get a bit upset when ppl like him go on and almost proclaim ebaying on the official forums.

Yeah. I'm not going nuts over other ppl ebaying cause i play my game and they play theirs.
Allthough I do get a bit upset when ppl like him go on and almost proclaim ebaying on the official forums.

Yeah, that's the thing, you just have to put things in perspective.

I mean, look at all the horrible things going on in the world. Any good human being should be going nuts at that stuff. But you have to do what you can and then live your life.

Otherwise it will drive you mad.

Case in point. I would have absolutely no problem in hiring a cleaning person for my apartment. I don't like stopping to clean and it would be so much easier to just pay someone a nominal fee to wash the kitchen floor. Or if there was a porch where I had to shovel the snow, I would be the first person to give some neighborhood kid a good chunk of money to do this.

My apartment mate is the opposite. To him it is beyond unthinkable to pay anyone to do your cleaning and shoveling. He would view it as an insult to who he is.

But I personally don't care, I hate shoveling.

It's ok that you buy yourself commodities for your life.

It's NOT ok that you buy yourself a few more queens when playing chess 'cause you are not very good at chess.

That's the main difference between real life and a game.

If we chose to play a game in which rules state you cannot buy advantages with real-life money, we have to obey to that rule.

i havent heard something this ******ed in a long time (1 week)

Nice reply, with well thought out arguments commenting on points i made :)

Jesus.. Are you serious? Most ppl who play Lineage 2 arent exactly from poor places.

Huh ?
If you meant "people dont need such status symbols in L2NA" then yes, you are right
However, this game isnt made for us, its made for an asian audience, it fits asian culture, its gameplay changes are done for their asian audience. L2NA is just a way to make a bit more money, but the amount of players we have here is a very small amount compared to the amount of people playing L2 in asia (particulary korea)

Allthough I do get a bit upset when ppl like him go on and almost proclaim ebaying on the official forums.

I looked over my post again, i cant see where it said i buy adena
Talking about realities (that you refuse to admit exists, from the looks of it) doesnt mean advocating, endorcing, or admitting to, buying adena

I have played the game for 2 years and have never owned an A grade item, and the only B i have had was a zubei robe set and a BW heavy set. However, MANY players purchase their assets, or run bot trains to fund their "main". I did an experiment once, i leveled a character to 50 without spending a single adena (replaced money used for SoE, teleports, soulshots etc from another character) and i had 7 million adena when i hit 50
At that rate i wouldnt even have top c armor when id hit B grade, much less actually any b grade items. A S grade weapon costs 300 million, do you actually think anyone made 300 million leveling to 76, using soulshots ? (ss takes 50-100% of your adena drops, depending on your class, crits, strength, etc)

"Play the market they say", playing the market by buying low selling high only helps driving prices up, the reason you can do this is because people is careless with their assets => gee i wonder why

I don't buy Adena but that being said I am also not super against it. I kinda look at it this way. When I travel IRL and I go to a different country I have to BUY the local currency. Being that I get paid in a different currency for my work. When I buy currency I also pay a fee...to the bank to the currency exchange guy or whomever I am buying the currency from. For example: I travel often from the US to say Uzbekistan. When I go there I buy the X amount of CYM's for X amount of dollars. I don't have time or the inclination to work within Uzbekistan to gather the required number of CYM's to buy things with…all I have is dollars. So I trade dollars for CYM's. No problem.

Now insert Lineage II. It is a different place for me, uses a different currency and has a different economy. I "travel" there by paying my Monthly fee and work but I am only paid in the local currency. I have plenty of real life dollars to spend on my hobby and want to have a leg up so I might buy some of the local currency for my own use. Why is that a problem? I don't have the time it takes to gather the local stuff so I get some from whoever by using the currency I do have to buy it. Buying it makes the game more fun because I am able to compete better and it is well within my means to expend. This is my business. Not anyone else's.

Soo…IMHO the challenge here is not to ban the "buyers" but make and/or regulate the "selling". If you want to stop the buying/sell of adena in game its really simple. Drive the cost of the transaction past the means of the buyers. To do that you have to regulate the ability of those that sell adena to gather it. This mean to activity BAN those folks who gather it by whatever means they do so.

Period. Remove the supply and the buying will either go away or become so very expensive that RL players will be unwilling to execute a trade for it.

So it's a vicious cycle and one that NcSoft has demonstrated it’s vast inability to deal with. After 3+ years of playing we still have this problem. And now it's on a bigger scale not a reduced one. That is the crux of the issue and that is where the fix needs to happen. If the procedures that NcSoft uses (and apparently continue to use) are insufficient for the action required then they need to implement a NEW processes to handle the problem. They need a faster way to investigate to those who gather it for sale and a faster way to ban them for breaking the EULA. (The assumption here is that the people are using auto hunting programs..which I think about 99.9% are…). There could be another set of process to ban those that don't use auto programs but sell it anyway...

Unfortunately does anyone really think that this is going to happen any time soon? If so I got a bridge for sale you might be interested in…

Oh in case you missed it I will state it again: I Don't BUY Adena. Period.

Out!

It is a problem because it unbalances the market. It furthers the divide between the haves and the have nots. Yes, that divide exists both in real life and in the game.

Classism is a very real issue: If you can afford to RMT 100,000,000 adena, to buy whatever your heart desires, how is that fair for me, who legitimately has been scraping and saving and working to earn that next 100,000 adena, just to get me that much closer to my goal?

Why should I have to resort to spending my hard earned $USD on keeping up with you? All RMT does is make the playing field that much more uneven.

I can't afford 100,000 CP Potions, or a BSOE every 10 seconds. I can't afford a b.Rez, let alone the 10-15 I would need whenever I go hunting.

I still can't afford an A-Grade helmet, though it's arguably low on my priority list right now, even though I'm 65.

I play this game to relax, to not have to stress over finances like I do in real life. So why should I have to bring those real life finances into the game?

Oh, and last but certainly not least: It's against the EULA. That's why it's wrong. Plain and simple. It is against the rules.

Case in point. I would have absolutely no problem in hiring a cleaning person for my apartment. I don't like stopping to clean and it would be so much easier to just pay someone a nominal fee to wash the kitchen floor. Or if there was a porch where I had to shovel the snow, I would be the first person to give some neighborhood kid a good chunk of money to do this.

My apartment mate is the opposite. To him it is beyond unthinkable to pay anyone to do your cleaning and shoveling. He would view it as an insult to who he is.

But I personally don't care, I hate shoveling.

It's ok that you buy yourself commodities for your life.

It's NOT ok that you buy yourself a few more queens when playing chess 'cause you are not very good at chess.

That's the main difference between real life and a game.

If we chose to play a game in which rules state you cannot buy advantages with real-life money, we have to obey to that rule.



I'm not disagreeing.

However, because of the breadth of the game, I can see where others would say that the "rule" is "stupid" and that they will do what they want to do to play the way they want. Especially since there is more to the game than chess has. Though, as an avid chess player I'm not saying more complexity or better game play.

What I am saying is that there are elements of the game that draw a certain crowd but also different elements that repel the same crowd. That part is the economy. there are a lot of people who want to play the pvp part but have no interest in the economy whatsoever.

So one would say, "well, the game is not for you". But since people CAN purchase adena, items, characters, suddenly they make it "for" them.

Sure, we think it's cheating but they might look at it differently. You could argue that we're "right" but that is still not going to change other people's minds.

...I did an experiment once, i leveled a character to 50 without spending a single adena (replaced money used for SoE, teleports, soulshots etc from another character) and i had 7 million adena when i hit 50
At that rate i wouldnt even have top c armor when id hit B grade, much less actually any b grade items. A S grade weapon costs 300 million, do you actually think anyone made 300 million leveling to 76, using soulshots ? (ss takes 50-100% of your adena drops, depending on your class, crits, strength, etc)

"Play the market they say", playing the market by buying low selling high only helps driving prices up, the reason you can do this is because people is careless with their assets => gee i wonder why

Craft, do quests? Heck, with the coin drops going from 40-50 back in the day you could get more than 7mil EASY.

If you expect to get all your money from exping with SS spam on, then no wonder you havent owned a single A-grade item.

What I am saying is that there are elements of the game that draw a certain crowd but also different elements that repel the same crowd. That part is the economy. there are a lot of people who want to play the pvp part but have no interest in the economy whatsoever.

So one would say, "well, the game is not for you". But since people CAN purchase adena, items, characters, suddenly they make it "for" them.

Sure, we think it's cheating but they might look at it differently. You could argue that we're "right" but that is still not going to change other people's minds.

Actually there are thousands of games where players are put at the same level from beginning that there's little sense in trying to do pvp only in such a vast (well, not THAT vast but it's ok) game...

But i understand there's people that want to play one part only and are ready to "cheat" on the other parts... they could simply choose another game though!

But i understand there's people that want to play one part only and are ready to "cheat" on the other parts... they could simply choose another game though!

That's true, they could. But many don't and here we are.

I just received one of these pm's today. Character named something like "ffrfffpf." Unbelievable.

I wish there was some way to sabotage these "businesses" the same way that they are interfering with my in-game enjoyment.

I can't wait for Aion to arrive. No more of this crap...! :mad:

I can't wait for Aion to arrive. No more of this crap...! :mad:

You sure? I plan on Playing that, don't get me wrong. But I don't see any reason why that game won't have some of the same challenges.

I can't wait for Aion to arrive. No more of this crap...! :mad:

You sure? I plan on Playing that, don't get me wrong. But I don't see any reason why that game won't have some of the same challenges.



Eventually, inevitably, if the game is successful, Aion will probably have the same challenges. But whenever a game first starts, as in the early days of L2, these issues aren't nearly as prevalent.

Even if I only have 6 months without any of these issues ruining the game, I'd be happy. 6 months of pristine, ebayless, virgin territory is all I ask.

You sure? I plan on Playing that, don't get me wrong. But I don't see any reason why that game won't have some of the same challenges.

Eventually, inevitably, if the game is successful, Aion will probably have the same challenges. But whenever a game first starts, as in the early days of L2, these issues aren't nearly as prevalent.

Even if I only have 6 months without any of these issues ruining the game, I'd be happy. 6 months of pristine, ebayless, virgin territory is all I ask.



6 Months? Think something more like 6 minutes....RMT is *big* business these days. You can bet your posterior that someone, somewhere is lining up their farmers and botters for each and every new game coming out. (Ones that aren't 'free to play&sell extras' and have any sort of 'grind' anyway.)


When RMT trading first (EQ1 days) started up, you can bet that it was pretty much done by amatuers with 'a bit too much time on their hands'. This was step 1-New Market.

Next some of those same people and those who saw how much money could be made and all the while the potential market grew as MMO's got bigger and they started to see dollar signs and organize. This was step 2-Market Growth.

And now, we are at the point where 'amateurs' no longer have a large niche. The 'professionals' have a pretty much monopolized the market. This is step 3-Market Maturity.

What will the future bring? The (MMO) 'market' still has room to 'grow' but look beyond that. Will RMT sellers become like Vegas (SOE) and legalize, regulate and attempt to legitimize the practice? Will the Goverment step in and lay a tax smackdown with laws and definitions of 'criminal behaviour'. (Arbanes Soxley etc...) Or will things exist in a 'Shadowrun' style manner where the biggest Corps run the RMT trade and players either pay protection or are run over by those who control the currencies?

I'm not much of a person for gambling...but I'm betting that <insert name of new MMO not out of Beta here> won't last more than a day before you can tell who the players are and who the 'pros' are.

I can't wait for Aion to arrive. No more of this crap...! :mad:

You sure? I plan on Playing that, don't get me wrong. But I don't see any reason why that game won't have some of the same challenges.



Eventually, inevitably, if the game is successful, Aion will probably have the same challenges. But whenever a game first starts, as in the early days of L2, these issues aren't nearly as prevalent.

Even if I only have 6 months without any of these issues ruining the game, I'd be happy. 6 months of pristine, ebayless, virgin territory is all I ask.



It won't happen.

Look at the Lord of the Rings Online. Just came out and you can already purchase money.

Unless developers take equipment and money out of the equation (which will make many players scream their heads off) we will have to always contend with this issue.

Even more to the point, since it is such big business, anything that game companies do to get rid of bots/farmers will be met by an equal effort to bypass that effort.

They will hire the best programmers, best thinkers, out of work programmers who have talent up the whazoo, even computer security experts because they have the money to do it.

Shadowrun

I use to love that game. [censored] microsoft for turning that into a shooter. :(

The dificulties to prevent botting/ebaying is the #1 reason ppl flee to private servers. Players just had enough. Allthough atm there is an increase of players coming back here cause 'ps' are 2 chronicles behind official.

So they would make alot more money if this problem was dealt with and the results of it were more visible.
Myself i still can't understand ppl who are so stupid that they buy virtual items. [Censored] that important?

banning the BUYERS ?

Yes. Taking out the weakest part of this illegit activity.

who are you to say what people should spend their money on ?

It's not us, it's NC Interactive (http://www.lineage2.com/legal/rules.html).

The reason selling adena is illegal

The rules prohibit buying adena as well.

Also, this game (and all other korean MMOs) are made for ebaying, its a status symbol the same as a fancy car is in europe/usa or being overweight is in africa. If you have the money to ebay it means you are well off

I have no idea why you think that a clan-based game could be made for personal status symbols. But it's not the point anyway. When lawful people get penalized for their lawfulness, it hurts the game.