Hello everyone!
I've got 3 simple question to our GM's and other players.
1. Is it allowed to get into the attacking castle using the wyvern before siege and in the siege?
2. Is it allowed to summon people on the walls of the castle before siege began, and than get into the castle innerooms without breaking the castle's maindoors?
3. Is it allowed to break castle's life crystals without breaking the castle's maindoors?
Theese are 3 simple questions. Why do I ask it? Ok, I will explain.
I'm member of clan that got Aden castle. Before the siege start our enemy summon their people on the walls using summoner on the wyvern. He lands his wyvern on the roof of small room there 2 walls cross each other. Than he summon a high level warcryer with chant of gate and he summon entire party near him.
So what we've got: 10mins before siege begin, 3-4 high level archer party are already inside the castle, and after the siege start they jump into the castle and break crystalls one by one. Of course, main castle doors are still alive. they even can break into the throne room, kill the last crystall and try to read near statue.
I think such situation breaking all sieging rules.
You can say that we should use expel otsiders from castle function, but it doesn't work there.
You can say that all atacking people should be teleported then siege start, but it doesn't work too.
Of course we are trying to prevent such situation buy patrolling the castle's walls, but they can just log off and wait until there is noone there.
Our ally tryed to petition to our dear support almost 3weeks ago but we didn't get any useful information. And our enemy continue using this tactic again and again.
So I want you to answer those 3 simple questions.
Thanks for the attention.
Sincerely yours, Sca (proud member of DragonHunters clan of Teon)
I'd say it is an exploit, since the attackers are not supposed to begin the siege INSIDE the castle - and to prevent people from entering a castle any other way than during gates/walls, you cannot fly a wyvern over a castle during a siege. Obviously the castle map is buggy somehow if you can do this. Common sense says the GMs should consider it a punishable offense to do this.
Sometime back it was posted that there were known exploit with a castle not recognizing certain places as parts of siege. It was deemed that to do this exploit one had to know those places beforehand. Doing this was considered an exploit and bannable. It was posted. Petition it.
Sometime back it was posted that there were known exploit with a castle not recognizing certain places as parts of siege. It was deemed that to do this exploit one had to know those places beforehand. Doing this was considered an exploit and bannable. It was posted. Petition it.
Sounds like an exploit. You use to be able to fly a wyvern into a castle during a siege and take out all the crystals if no one was around and they changed the game so that wasn't allowed at all.
Whats funny is, that clan in the picture is one we did the very same thing too at Innadril when Wyverns first came out. (I flew in, took out all their life crystals after siege started)
Took them forever to figure out how we did it.
How hard is it to guard your castle? I think its slightly stupid for it to be a bannable offense. You have a whole nother side to sieges (Air warfare) and you want to get rid of it because its too hard to keep a party inside guarding the castle?
This, too. But it's still bannable according to NCSoft.
How hard is it to guard your castle? I think its slightly stupid for it to be a bannable offense. You have a whole nother side to sieges (Air warfare) and you want to get rid of it because its too hard to keep a party inside guarding the castle?
Bah.
"Air warfare" would be working if more than a dozen or so people on the server could have a flying mount. As it is now, it's just one more vector of attack you'd have to guard against ...
... but then, Koreans are big fans of "fairness" and such a tactic is "unfair" (like anything in war is ...). So NCSoft Korea forbid it and made it (partially, as can be seen here) impossible and NCSoft US/EU just copied this without thinking. Or maybe just without being allowed to think for themselves.
... but then, Koreans are big fans of "fairness" and such a tactic is "unfair" (like anything in war is ...). So NCSoft Korea forbid it and made it (partially, as can be seen here) impossible and NCSoft US/EU just copied this without thinking. Or maybe just without being allowed to think for themselves.
I thought it brought a whole new level to sieges myself. You'd be suprised how many hours we spent trying to get another person onto that Wyvern with me. (We actually did manage it too, but he falls off at the first terrain border loading zone)
The above people didnt even use its potential to the fullness either. I'd have used it as a clan leader then used my summons to bring my entire clan to me, then bring in everyone else using WC's.
However even one person could totally screw that up since those type of skills do have a significant casting time and woudnt be super hard to knock off.
I'd say it was good tactics IF they didn't change the game to not allow the wyverns over siege grounds during a siege, unless you owned that castle. I think that set a precedent of this to be "bad" too.
I'd say it was good tactics IF they didn't change the game to not allow the wyverns over siege grounds during a siege, unless you owned that castle. I think that set a precedent of this to be "bad" too.
And no one complained about THAT when it happened?
What the hell is the point of a Wyvern, a already gimp *** mont, if you cant even take it onto a siege zone?
Here, I've got a better idea... lets make it so that you cant summon a Siege Golem/Cannon/etc unless you own the castle. That'll be funny.
Perhaps people just didnt "get" what to use those Wyverns for, but it sure as sh*t isnt in open PvP, its doing strategic things on a whole nother level that most people dont even realize you could do.
Perhaps people just didnt "get" what to use those Wyverns for, but it sure as sh*t isnt in open PvP, its doing strategic things on a whole nother level that most people dont even realize you could do.
And I hope people will re-allow the use of them on the siege field again, but with some extensions.
Imagine that: Wyvern riders duking it in the sky with Kamael fliers while whole parties are getting ready to do an airborne assault from the board of some Dwarven flying machines, all the while nukers and archers try to destroy them in-flight and some ship shells the attacker's positions from the shore with long-range on-board artillery.
The problem here is that it was deemed an exploit and bannable and posted as such when it was known to only a few people. It was even posted in the ingame message when you logged in. Now you've stuck your foot in and claimed to have done it also. Good luck.
The problem here is that it was deemed an exploit and bannable and posted as such when it was known to only a few people. It was even posted in the ingame message when you logged in. Now you've stuck your foot in and claimed to have done it also. Good luck.
Yep, I'll freely admit I did it. In fact, I'll even post screenshots and fraps if I still have em.
Diffrence? I did it before scrubs even dreamed it could be done. I did it the *week* Wyverns came out.
The key is:
Atacking force is in the castle's territory not in the pvp zone, and all functions connected with castle management dont work in this place. They cannot be expelled by CL. They didn't teleported to town after siege began as it supposed to be.
Flying on the wyvern in the siege is OK. But getting into the castle without breaking a gates/walls and without flying on wyvern is wrong.
There was only 1 man with wyvern who summoned other people. If all that men have their own wyvern it will be usual game situation but they dont.
Also there is a ability of clan leader that own castle - summon clan... He can summon whole clan in that position. Just imagine that - 120 people of atacking force inside the castle just after the siege began.
It is not ok to take the wyvern from say, Oren castle, and fly it to another castle in siege such as Gludio, drop off and destroy the crystals. You use to be able to do that, then in an update they made it so if you try that, when you hit the siege field I believe you get blown off and thrown back to town.
From what people have been saying, that is not ok and is a bannable offense.
No, it's just impossible (see the C4 patch notes here (http://www.lineage2.com/news/chronicle4_17.html): "The inside of the castle has been set up as a non-flying zone during a castle siege. However, a clan leader in possession of the castle can mount a wyvern to fly inside the castle."). If you manage to find a way around this limitation, though, it would be bannable I guess.
(Does anyone have a link to that by chance? I cant see that as being right honestly.. must have been in C4/C5 since we werent here then)
This is another issue, which I don't find on this [censored] forum right now. For a while, the entry message during the game stated something to the effect that there are areas in (some) castle siege zones which aren't recognised by the engine as such, and using them during a siege is considered a bannable exploit.
You could read that two entirely diffrent ways depending upon your perception.
Has anyone even tried to fly a Wyvern over a castle?
Reason I ask is because of the 2nd sentence. You mount the Wyvern from the inside of the castle (go up out of the throne room, into another "open" room and mount it)..notice the 2nd sentence.
It almost sounds as if its perfectly fine to fly the Wyvern on the Siege Grounds and over the first set of walls, however you cannot actually get *into* the castle... as that would allow you to cast on the relic immediately without doing anything in effect.
That also makes sense since in C4 is when they gave the ability for NON castle holding clan leaders to ride Wyverns. (Meaning before that, it didnt matter if a Wyvern owner got into the relic room.. you coudnt cast since you already owned a castle..)
Guys it's hard to see how this is wrong. If the Wyvern is allowed to be raided on a siege and can be used to pass walls without break the doors, then obviously if the guy that is raiding it can summon people well, it's hard to belive it's illegal.
I trully think this will make the siege a lot harder than it is.
But NC need to fix the expell function of the CL. Just that will end up with the guys being in the castle before the siege begins.
It's also not the point. The actual offence doesn't have anything to do with the wyverns.
Some parts of the siege zone (like the parts of the castle in the screen shots) aren't recognised as such. Abusing it during a siege is a bannable offence. Doesn't matter if you use a wavern for that or just mountain-jump your way up there.
I haven't but I know someone that owned a castle that did it in c3 and in c4. In c4 when the changes were made, if he got on his Oren wyvern and tried to fly across another siege field (say Aden), he would get punted back to the nearest town. It wasn't that he could fly over the castle and not land, he would get ported OUT for even trying at the edge of the siege field.
So if you aren't allowed to land anywhere on the entire siege field on a wyvern and then summon your enemy clan DURING a siege, I don't see why they would think it's cool to do it PRE siege.
And Celebrity, you can still fly again say, the Oren Wyvern over Oren castle all you want during a siege, you just can't go to someone elses castle and do it.
I haven't but I know someone that owned a castle that did it in c3 and in c4. In c4 when the changes were made, if he got on his Oren wyvern and tried to fly across another siege field (say Aden), he would get punted back to the nearest town. It wasn't that he could fly over the castle and not land, he would get ported OUT for even trying at the edge of the siege field.
I'd say thats a bug then, because the C4 notes specifically say thats not whats spose to happen. (Either that, or he was fibbing a bit and flew directly over the castle) It mentions Castle, not Siege Field.
Anyway, I guess it is besides the point, but in the end, nothing will happen to those that did this and it will continue to be done more then likely. (Especially as some of the slower people get on to what happened.. expect a clan leader summoning his entire clan soon..)
It'll change the way Sieges happen and there aint nothin wrong with that.
I'm not talking about flying wyvern in the siege, I'm talking about using wyvern before siege begin, and this is OK. But summoning people in the castle's territory, and staying there after siege begin - that's illegal...
I've tried petitioning to our dear support and didn't get any usefull information...
Not to mention it makes a good part of castle defenses completely useless (upgrading doors, walls, guards around these areas, etc).
Those have been useless since C5...
No castle defense has any sort of impact on sieges anymore. Not guards, not doors or walls. Most Sieges are decided not on the siege field but on the rush to the siege field, after that they are in the inner castle before you can even teleport back out usually. (Unless we are talking newbie sieges here)
I haven't but I know someone that owned a castle that did it in c3 and in c4. In c4 when the changes were made, if he got on his Oren wyvern and tried to fly across another siege field (say Aden), he would get punted back to the nearest town. It wasn't that he could fly over the castle and not land, he would get ported OUT for even trying at the edge of the siege field.
So if you aren't allowed to land anywhere on the entire siege field on a wyvern and then summon your enemy clan DURING a siege, I don't see why they would think it's cool to do it PRE siege.
And Celebrity, you can still fly again say, the Oren Wyvern over Oren castle all you want during a siege, you just can't go to someone elses castle and do it.
So it's IS a bug. Please guys if anyone has a image of this happening submit it into the bugs section of the forum.
Bug nothing! Ok, maybe it's a bug in the siege field design but.....This is (one of) THE specific exploit that HGMSpam himself posted about in this forum. As I recall he stated in his post that not only was use of this exploit a bannable offense, but that if you won the castle and had used this exploit, the castle would be taken from you by force. He stated at the time that this exploit was not one that could used by accident, and reading this post I now understand what he meant. You can't do this by accident, only by intent. Sure, tactically it's a great idea, but it is also an unfair advantage for the attacking force, and gets around the siege restrictions on gate's and summons.
So my question is......Why haven't the players that used this exploit been given the golden boot?
edit: I found the post by HGMSpam, well sort of. The post was titled Castle Siege Warning on 11/3/2006, but for some reason I get access denied when I try to open it. I wanted to be able to quote Spam correctly, but I guess I won't be able to.
Castle defenders care I bet, especially with the 2k rep point hit they take (well, if they don't have a holder clan holding it).
And ok yeah, door/wall and guard upgrades are fairly useless but it's still a barrier you SHOULD have to go through, that they aren't having to go through.
I agree about the Spam thing too, I bet this is what they meant, though at the time I could not for the life of me think people would do this.
So here is a completely nub question for ya.
You say that WarCryers get "Chant of Gate" and that it summons the entire party?
I just started playing my WC, and it is a fun class so i would like some info on this skill. what level you get it, what it costs, who is summons etc...
Also, i agree with FB that when he did it, it was OK and that it added something different. However now that they specifically said that it cant be done and to do so is bannable.
Ban their cheatin bums.