So i was watching this group go to work with a field full of drops laying on the ground i might add.
This group was part of a high level clan with alot of members. Went up to the one leading the charge from mob to mob and sent both a PM and a Shout. Asking if they wanted the drops....
No reply.
Normally i have a set of rules i go by, to identify questionable characters. And none of them came even close other then not speaking back to me.
And i wonder. If they can't speak english....Say all they can speak is german. Shouldn't they at least say something in their native tongue?
Pick up their loot, dont report them so you can come back again an hour later or the next day and pickup more. Dont bother asking either, just doooo it :P
Even better ;)
You can safely report them, investigation takes some time so they won't disappear within an hour, not even within a week and some never so I would not worry about that.
You all have had more of a L2 social life then myself. And i wonder how many quiet nonenglish speaking people have you ran into?
Actually my roommates and i had a really nasty fued going with a french speaking clan. They pk'd us on our subs and we told them to reimburse brezzes or we're pk them. Well only 1 guy spoke english and he said F you. Turns out, after about a day of their whole clan getting killed and asking a clanmate who spoke french to talk to them, their leader was asking what needed done to solve it and the first guy who spoke english said that we were gonna PK them till they quit and nothing would make us stop.
All because none of us spoke the same language. (the original fight was also caused by the ****** mistranslating during an dispute over hunting ground).
Sounds to me there doing that to give there clan rep points. The sad part is even if you spot them at or around lvl 5 and report them. By the time the GM team gets around to looking into it they are already lvl 40 and have been deleted to start a new rep point crew. :(
The non english speaking people wouldn't it be best to speak up even if it's in their own tongue?
If i come up to someone that is greek and private message and even use the name of their clan in a shout message. They don't speak english one would think at least the name of the clan would get their attention. That they would at least try and interact with you.....
my experiece is that they will say something even if you dont know what it is...if they dont then they dont care or are the WALKING dead and it doesnt matter..thouhgh i am down with the take their drops over and over again thing...at the start of interlude i found a group that wasnt picking up life stones in EV..got 9 of them in 30 seconds ^^ and back during last Xmas i found almost 1/4 of the dwarven starter ared was covered in the present boxes from more WALKING dead..so what ev...take drops..its free adena....
This group was part of a high level clan with alot of members. Went up to the one leading the charge from mob to mob and sent both a PM and a Shout. Asking if they wanted the drops....
No reply.
Normally i have a set of rules i go by, to identify questionable characters. And none of them came even close other then not speaking back to me.
And i wonder. If they can't speak english....Say all they can speak is german. Shouldn't they at least say something in their native tongue?
Not defending the automated players, but....
Who says that they have to reply? Where is that in the EULA? You're not a GM. They are not obligated to respond.
If someone pm's me while I am hunting, I don't always reply. You may even approach me, but as long as you don't flag or pick up my drops, I won't respond to you. There is a courtesy involved here. If I'm hunting, don't bother me. My title does not say "Help Desk", or "Free SOE's" or "I Chat 4Adena."
I hate mindless witch hunts. But what I despise even more are rumor and finger pointing. Actions, not words, are all that matters. In life, and in this game.
If you have proof (as opposed to just suspicions), please take it to the GM's and let them sort it out. Or log a permared and take care of matters as you see fit.
But if you are unable to do either of these, then just walk away and say nothing about it. I'm tired of seeing posts like these without anyone doing anything to effect change.
You are hunting with ether your multi-box group or just a group in general. And i come up to you and ask " Hey, if you guys/gals dont want any of these drops. Can i have them?"
No response....
Now, why not reply? Wouldn't it be courteous to do so?
You are hunting with ether your multi-box group or just a group in general. And i come up to you and ask " Hey, if you guys/gals dont want any of these drops. Can i have them?"
No response....
Now, why not reply? Wouldn't it be courteous to do so?
In some circles, my not responding is your answer. "No."
At that point you may escalate to the next series of options --pick up my drops, try to pk/train me, report me as an automatic player, or walk away.
Let's cut to the chase: my guess is that you want to end the plague of automated players on your server, and not simply discredit a disfavorable clan. (The beauty of this is that you could have done both and rid yourself of two evils in one fell swoop!) Which of the above options truly addresses the issue at hand?
Let's give the GM's some credit. They DO ban accounts. It may take them awhile, but it happens. However coming to the forums to complain about it accomplishes nothing, other than to deconstruct the integrity of this game.
Really, let's at least TRY to do something about the problems in this game whenever we encounter them.
Just wondering how many people encounter others that don't speak english. Would a non english speaking person just keep on playing or would they try to communicate?
I have encountered just a few on Seigehart, maybe less than 5. One was a small group that was part of a notorious clan of farmers, who are since banned. They could, with several seconds pause, reply something simple, like "No", or "So?". The other was a couple of European players who spoke what seemed to be German or a smilar language. They accidentally trained me in Branded, then apologized profusely, and gave me some buffs from their prophet. In my experience players who speak little or no English will still respond in some way.
Also, like the others said, if in doubt, crowd their territory a little bit, pick up a few drops, steall a kill, etc. I have done this a very few times where the other player then responded, and I was always able to apologize and back out in those few cases. Most of the time, the players turned out to be just what they appeared to be.
All leveling bots I know pick up their drops, all of them.
And I've seen many, and killed many, and have had high level clan members come to kill me in retaliation.
In fact, I can XP along side of them, leaev my drops on the ground, and they won't even pick mine up.
So if they are botting they most probably will not be leaving their drops on the ground. They will be getting XP 24*7 anyways so who if they slow it down 10% while they make alot of adena from adena drops/mats/full drops/etc.
And if you want your own drops, kill mobs and make you own field :) Touch mine and it's another PK. Sin Eater FTW!
This group was part of a high level clan with alot of members. Went up to the one leading the charge from mob to mob and sent both a PM and a Shout. Asking if they wanted the drops....
No reply.
Normally i have a set of rules i go by, to identify questionable characters. And none of them came even close other then not speaking back to me.
And i wonder. If they can't speak english....Say all they can speak is german. Shouldn't they at least say something in their native tongue?
Not defending the automated players, but....
Who says that they have to reply? Where is that in the EULA? You're not a GM. They are not obligated to respond.
If someone pm's me while I am hunting, I don't always reply. You may even approach me, but as long as you don't flag or pick up my drops, I won't respond to you. There is a courtesy involved here. If I'm hunting, don't bother me. My title does not say "Help Desk", or "Free SOE's" or "I Chat 4Adena."
I hate mindless witch hunts. But what I despise even more are rumor and finger pointing. Actions, not words, are all that matters. In life, and in this game.
If you have proof (as opposed to just suspicions), please take it to the GM's and let them sort it out. Or log a permared and take care of matters as you see fit.
But if you are unable to do either of these, then just walk away and say nothing about it. I'm tired of seeing posts like these without anyone doing anything to effect change.
Oh, I have met people who didn't respond until I nuked them :p
Then they were like "WTH are you doing?!"
Sometimes Clan/Alliance chat is busy :)
I've taken to ignoring people lately, and respond in french if they are persistent (no joke).
The gist of the OP is that he wants the drops so he figures that he has rights to drops if they are on the ground. The L2 world works similar to the RL world. You make your friends, you make your enemies. You make good or bad decisions. You can choose to not GaF because you are in XXX clan/XXX alliance or have X amount of levels over the person; but, nothing in the game makes it more enjoyable to play than players who have good manners and good play etiquette.
Personally, I don't steal anyone's drops - and I have no had problems with other people stealing my drops (as they will get a quick PK if they do, I ask First - Shoot seocnd). Coming here and complaining about wanting someone else's drops becasue you suspect they are botting makes me happy you don't play on my server and are in my level range. I'd probably be killing you on a daily basis and people would be yelling "loot thieves otw" everytime they saw you log into VoS (like they do for all known loot thieves).
Folks who complain about getting PKd picking other people's drops up, wanting hunting spots other nonresponsive players are hunting in, etc. are funny.
What makes you think you are even worth the time/effort to type a message to, anyways? There are too many other things to worry about than someone runnign around askin you for the 50th time if you are a bot or a human. You are not a GM, and cannot come to the final conclusion.
Like I've said, I've seen some bots (and have replays of them, not just recollection), and their behavior was very different. They never left fields of drops behind. They picked up everything. Maybe people bot differently on different server, Lol.
The gist of the OP is that he wants the drops so he figures that he has rights to drops if they are on the ground.
I'm sure Splatter can defend himself, however I'd like to point out how quick you are to assume the character of an individual. The way I read it, is merely about non-responders and whether they can be falsely identified as bots or not.
Now while I understand your position, one could also argue that a field full of drops is fair game for anyone. Not to say that the "owner" of the drops couldn't retaliate if he felt wronged. I'd say this is the nature of the game, you make friend and you make enemies. There is no Moral compass in L2 within the rules of the server.
The gist of the OP is that he wants the drops so he figures that he has rights to drops if they are on the ground.
And he is right. Your programmed right to pick your loot ends 15 seconds after it drops. Everything else is about morale. It is polite to ask if you can pick the drops - but not mandatory. If somebody decides to pick drops, s/he can and you cannot do a ****, except PK that person. If you do not respond to anything when I try to interact and then just PK me - OK, my fault, but those drops are mine and there is no way you can get them out of my inventory.
Don't rely on people's morale. It won't work. Or do you put all your money somewhere around you in the middle of town square and assume everyone is honest and ask you if they can take them? No, they'll steal it ASAP from behind your back. Game is just like real life as you said.
BTW why do you blame Splatter for being loot thief? You have never picked after botted nukers, or seed some botted groups? I do it regularly, take a look in Cruma swamps or Neutral zone lately after trial accounts were introduced.
If there are tons of drops from someone I don't know leveling somewhere I pick it up. Most of the time I either get "stop" or "I don't need drops."
If they say "stop," I say "why." And if I am having a good day I stop. If not, well they better hurry and pick up more stuff than me. If they say they don't need the drops, I say "thx" and continue picking up.
If they don't talk to you, then who cares. Just pick up the drops. The best part, if you like pvp, is sometimes it gives you more than drops, but a really fun pvp night. Because obviously if you are spending time picking up someone else's drops it is a bit of a slow night. :p
Because obviously if you are spending time picking up someone else's drops it is a bit of a slow night. :p
This part made me giggle. I, personally, am compelled by the shineys. I see the flitter of gold in the sun/moon light and I become posessed. Well put either way.
Just wondering how many people encounter others that don't speak english. Would a non english speaking person just keep on playing or would they try to communicate?
That's a silly question, because people are different. There is no universal law like "non english speaking players will respond when you say something", it depends on the player.
That said, I would usually expect a player to respond in some way when you stand next to him and talk. Even if it is only with non-english gibberish.
If the player does not answer at all, I would start picking up some drops. Then he either will respond in some way - talk to you, or flag on you, or whatever - or do nothing at all. If he does not react, I'd just pick up everything, since the player obviously either does not care about the drops because he already has enough adena, or because it is a badly configured automated player.
Most of the time if some random person pm's me while I'm hunting, either solo or in party, I don't respond. By random I mean some untagged player or someone from a clan I don't recognize. If I don't know the person, or the clan he is in, I don't have any need to communicate with him.
It is sometimes also a good way to get free pvp points if some ****** decides to flag ^^
i had a wierd moment the other night, i was in the DE vil just after leaving Devo's and i see a bunch of NG stuff on the ground, i acted on impulse and started picking it up. there were 2 people right next to me that were trading it nonetheless and i was like "whoa! why am i so greedy to steal someone else's NG?" so i dropped it again and said sry :p
i do the same thing as those guy i dont pick up my drops cuz its a waste of time when im done with the spot ill pick it up
i had a guy do the same thing but i didnt care to talk to him cuz will i dont give a sh it so he start to pick up my drops so i flaged he flaged back i killed him
he pm me saying what the hell and i pm him back saying just cuz i dont talk doesnt mean a i bot u picking up my drops is a no no he didnt even come back out after that
Very much so, besides, leaving all that crap laying on the ground helps to add to server lag. Now everyone hates lag, so pick your drops up, or someone else will....even if you kill them for it. Unless you kill them quick (and they might just kill you) they still get some of your drops, course if they kill you they get ALL your drops. So stop every so often and vacuum up the area...no problem.
Its easy for a fighter to pick up drops as you are right on top of them. A player with long range attack has to then go to the kill and pick the drop up. This can be a pain but thats part of levelling such a class.
If I see a field of gold I'll always look to see who's around. I'll try and ask if they want the drops and zero response will mean I start picking it up. If they then respond with abuse or action, then I'll stop.
If you drop £10 on the ground you pick it up. You do it straight away because you know someone else certainly will !
Anyone who leaves drops all over the place can't moan if someone picks it all up. I pick mine up, but then I don't bot.
Nothing to do with me at all because it's not my server but I do hope Splatter picked up the drops. Even if they respond by sttacking you, they can't get back what you have picked up - if they are 'botters' (again not my server don't know the clan) then they should be treated as such.
If people dont respond, jus tkill them... Its a good chance they are bots, or if not then they are just mean. If they leave drops, quickly grab them. If they dont say anything great. If they do, explain that after the x amount of seconds pass, drops are open to anyone who wanta pick them up, which mean its rightfully the picker-uppers adena/drops. So, if they want there drops, they have time to safely pick them up without the drops becoming open game for anyone who wants them. Hell, if i see drops ill just yell WEEEEEE and run around picking it all up.. even if someone is yelling that its belong to them. Cause then you can blam them for you fake lag, and says its you replayment.
Drops have a "claim timer" (I really dont know what its called so I made up a name). If you dont pick it up in that time then it becomes public property.
Good way to make money is to go to VoS on a low lvl alt. Just find one of those mages that doesnt pick anything up and start spamming pick up. They now have 2 choices.
1) pk you
2) pick their crap up
If they choose #1 then you just come back and do it again. When the counter hits 6 then you come on your main and kill them. This time the drops will be even better.
If they choose #2 then you will only get half the drops you would have gotten. Move on to mage #2 and repeat.
The archer or nuker could also "hire" themselves a lowbie from Gludio/Dion/Gluden to duo with. Let the lowbie run around picking up stuff and scroll rez them when they get killed. They are not going to effect the high level players Xp and they will be getting pretty good xp for themselves. Sure you are splitting the drops, but you don't have to run around to pick them up yourself either, which I agree is a pain on a nuker/archer.
You're the second person that said they don't talk to others.
Wouldn't you call that being anti-social?
No, but I call your generalization ******ed.
When you get to 6x leveling suddenly doesn't become fast, and a buffround starts to become more and more important. When I had 5 mobs around me that need to be drop, and one is popping up everytime another one dies - my XP is much more important than talking to you, him, her, or anyone else atm.
Also, I get more XP when I wait until I'm ready to leave to pick up my drops. I don't have time to run 900ft to every mob I one shot/crit or 600ft to every two shot mob's corpse to pick up the drops.
I have clan/alliance chat to socialize. Everything else is non-factor.
If you want to socialize, join a party and socialize - don't expect me to talk to you just because you want my drops on the ground.
Have fun getting your level 1 Noob to my spot in VoS - BTW (unless have high level toons escorting it). I will PK any noob for my drops before I allows them to even get close to them. I see D grade running through VoS - I PK them just becuase I assume they are a loot theif. People !Loot Thieves OTW when a Lvl 1 toon ports into that area. I have no problem PKing people for drops. Sin Eater levels fast and I'm currently at 0 PKs - which means that every PK until I get to 5 will take < 3 minutes to work the Karma off.
Or I can just get a clannie to come kill me and rez me with their Bishop or EE.
People acting like red is such a bad thing. OMG I'm gonna go red if I windstrike this level 1 noob stealing drops. Lol. There is only 1 choice. People in VoS at least on my server rarely attack a red toons because people go red often for these reasons - just like bot killers in catacombs.
And no, I will not hire myself a lowbie in Gludio or Dion, wasting money porting to and fro - getting the lowbie to and fro. Scroll Rezzing it. Split half my drops with it when it's already costly enough to level up a somewhat high level toon (by comparison). They can buy top DG with the cash they got with me at the end of the day - I can't even buy one session-wort of supplies. That's a sad excuse for poor manners of fellow players. Makes me not give a **** about the bots they all complain about, now. Now I see why the botters don't care - can't blame them.
I think I'll level a perma-red archer and camp it as my grind spot just for this reason, thanks for the idea.
If they don't talk to you, then who cares. Just pick up the drops. The best part, if you like pvp, is sometimes it gives you more than drops, but a really fun pvp night.
PK 6 noobs for my drops. Pick them up. Goto floran and get clannie to kill the karma off rezzing me with Bishop/EE. Go back to VoS and spend a buffround or two leveling Sin Eater.
Cold day in hell before you get drops off someone. Gotta have Down's Syndrome to go red and die with 6+ PKs. Noobs comes in the area, and the next copse pops a Cursed/Corrupted Man.
Well this topic has sort of transitioned from identification of bots to how to handle drops, but several good points are made about rights and ownership.
I've experienced pretty much every scenario when it comes to drops.
When I hunt with my nuker, I don't bother to pick up drops right away, and I don't usually respond to solicitations from passing strangers. I'm not antisocial, but when I'm hunting, I'm hunting. I don't want to waste time with a conversation with some stranger who is obviously there to get something undeserved.
You don't have to speak to get your point across. Just walk right up to them and look at them. Or nuke a mob standing near them. That break in the hunting pattern is sufficient for them to know that there is a sentient being at the controls. If at that point they decide to pick up your drops anyway, then as said before, one escalation deserves another.
As for dealing with low level drop stealers, well that is why it's always good to have at least one chaotic player on your account. I have no qualms about rolling out the 7x red bow to deal with most annoyances.
And if the low level wants to log his main, well even better. At this point in the game's existence, doesn't everyone have a higher level main or have connections to a powerful alliance? The only people who are truly being victimized here are the outsiders. To that end, whatever happens, happens.
What it comes down to is whether or not a few tens of thousands of adena and maybe a few choice mats are worth the trouble of potentially having Hell rained down on you on sight. For some I'm sure the answer will be yes. Simple minds have simple pleasures.
But in terms of an unwritten social compact, it is probably best to leave the drops alone unless you know for sure it's an automated player, or someone who has given you permission. I've heard a great deal about morality, but not one mention of the word "respect." In a land without respect, distrust reigns and dire consequences lurk behind every corner.
EDIT: I just encountered some unquestionably questionable characters in VoS (pun intended, they are far from questionable). After traning the group with mobs and casting "Forget" on them to switch agro to the tank/healer, I then proceeded to rez the tank over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. I rezzed him like 30 times with my SE, not counting the 100+ rez scrolls a friend of mine burnt on him. If he doesn't come back soon, I think I might just pull an all-nighter chain rezzing him and letting him kill himself on mobs. He's already down 4 - 5 levels.
Notice he doesn't leave drops behind, he picks them up otw to die :) Bots don't litter...
maybe to solve this drops problem, NCsoft should do some changes in the next update. like make the drops only last for 10 to 20 seconds and if it is not picked up then they are just vanished ...^ ^....that will encourage players to at least pick their drops on the ground....
maybe to solve this drops problem, NCsoft should do some changes in the next update. like make the drops only last for 10 to 20 seconds and if it is not picked up then they are just vanished ...^ ^....that will encourage players to at least pick their drops on the ground....
Then they should weaken the agro radius of mobs, make them not split, and make them not port on top of you head.
All these thinks can turn a 10 second kill + run into a 20 second frenzy. It's like u see a herb of recovery drop, kill the adds, and then the herb poofs before you get to it.
Maybe someone with a good computer background can explain this to me, but how exactaly does having drops on the ground make the entire server lag? Wouldn't it only be in areas where the drops can be seen?
Maybe someone with a good computer background can explain this to me, but how exactaly does having drops on the ground make the entire server lag? Wouldn't it only be in areas where the drops can be seen?
Depends on how the game is programmed...but from what I've seen, the game is divided up into 'zones'. For each character in that zone all the game data has to be either 1 or 1+2:
1)Checked to see if character is in range of the (objects). For L2 I assume object range is a zone....think the 'squares' on the map each defining a 'zone'.)
2)The data for objects in range must be sent to the client.
From my experience, the range on each zone is pretty big. You will after all, "see" a field of adena/drops from quite a far distance away. Thus I would assume that each zone loads *all* the data for that area when you enter it, instead of checking all the time. (Takes too much CPU server side to check it constantly there.)
Thus if you are in a place like VOS, not only will the server send you the data for the drops in your sight, but ALL the data for all the drops on the ground in the entire area and it is up to the client to decide if you 'see' them or not.
This means that if you are in a 'not picked up' zone you will have more data sent to your pc, and your pc has to take up the slack in rendering/placing/ignoring the drops. (This is why turning 'show drops' off may speed things up a bit.)
Server side, every drop not picked up is held somewhere in memory until it is either picked up or lost when the sever has downtime. This essentially creates the same effect as a 'memory leak'. Each drop will take a bit more memory until a point is reached that the server's function is impared. (It either crashes or runs slower and slower over time.) In this manner, *everyone* on that server is affected by what happens in another zone.
This is in addition to having to send all that item data to each person in that zone, taking up more bandwidth from all the people who are playing.
I think that the EULA says that the primary language of Lineage 2 NA is English. (it might be another game, I'm not sure)
Nevertheless, I agree with Splatter. It is normal courtesy to reply. How hard can it be to write "NO!"
You don't have to write a novel: "No you may not. They are my drops because I have killed the monstrosity that dropped it. Furtermore... Bla... blablabla.... AND YOU bla bla BUT bla bla. SO the conclusion is that you shall hunt your own monsters or fall to my blade"
Just say "no" (or use a macro with the above in ^^)
FTW! This is a game... an english language game (all the in-game text is in english (and some orcish, dwarven, Sylvan(elvish) and drowish)) ;)
I believe that after 15 sec's (IF the area ISNT marked off, or there is a nuker) that the drop is no-mans. Still I ask if I see the hunter, nomatter what.
maybe to solve this drops problem, NCsoft should do some changes in the next update. like make the drops only last for 10 to 20 seconds and if it is not picked up then they are just vanished ...^ ^....that will encourage players to at least pick their drops on the ground....
What they should do is sell a special tote bag or a token that enables all drops to automatically appear in your inventory. We all know the only reason why you have to pick up drops is because it slows down your XP rate. Yet another annoying time sink.
How hard can it be for them not to ask? To mind their own business? To go hunt (in other words "WORK") for their own drops? Let's not coddle the lazy or encourage a worker class slave mentality. :D :D :D
But if it's an automated type, collect the drops and THEN report them. Please, please, please, please!
Personally, I pick up drops because I'm mystically compelled by the glitter of gold. However I must say, picking up someone else's drops is NOT lazy. It takes more effort to pick it up than to not.
For me however, to resist the temptation is nearly impossible.