Hi all. I surrender to dualbox and i am will try it.
It is a break of ULA?
Any tip how do it?
I am thinking about run 2 clients in window mode at 800x600 with low resolution.
Is a Athlon XP 2000 with 1Gb enought?
Should i copy the game directory or i can run both clients from same directory?
Can i make shortcuts setting the screen resolution 800x600?
Hi all. I surrender to dualbox and i am will try it.
It is a break of ULA? - No
Any tip how do it? - Just run 2 clients. Best way is to log one in, then log the other.
I am thinking about run 2 clients in window mode at 800x600 with low resolution.
Is a Athlon XP 2000 with 1Gb enought? - Yes, I used to do it on my old machine of the same spec
Should i copy the game directory or i can run both clients from same directory? - just use the same shortcut, no need to make a new one
Can i make shortcuts setting the screen resolution 800x600? - No, but when you close the last client it saves the changes anyway
No, it is in line with the EULA.
If you have two machines, use macros for everything. If you have one machine, use macros only for buffs.
I find it better to run the clients side by side than overlapping, but I don't know many others who play like this.
You can two-box on almost anything that can run L2 - 1.3 Ghz CPU, cheap-brand graphics card and 512 MB ram were enough (but it wasn't pretty).
You can run both from the same directory.
The screen resolution you last closed the window at is the one that will be used.
Wow. Thks for the info.
My computer runs very well with 2 window clients at 1024x768 and i can switch clientes very fast (around 2 seconds)
My video card is a ATI Radeon 9600XT (a old one)
It is amazing. Lol. I wast a lot of time playing only one account :0
Look like a new game :)
Was so funny trade with myself :)
I triple box in one pc so dual box is a bit easyer.
unless ur war tagged and u need max range to see ur enemys use windows mode and crop ur screen so u can seel both boxs.
I got a 20in ws flat screen so i do 800x600 on two boxe one above the other and then i crop the 3rd main to fill up the other half of my monitor i get less then 1 sec delay clicking boxes. I been accused of being a bot just the fact i can 3 box so well even in raids.
when ur running u will have a lot of problems with lag as well as porting. make sure to leave 1 or both of ur boxes at low res alt-p so u lag less.
Use this macro to follow ur main it so helpfull and easy to make.
follow macro
/target [main char name]
/target [main char name]
this macro will target ur main toon then when it does it x2 it will follow ur main toon. Use it religously when u get stuck around a corner or ur running far distances.
Another trick is to make ur similar hot keys in the same location so when clicking ur 2nd boxes u can easly pick up stand attack etc...
The trick is to use ur hot keys always and ur mouse as little as possible when boxing. the only time u should have to use ur mouse on ur 2nd box is to target and activate the 2nd box.
I used to quad-box a fair bit, though it's more common for me to just triple-box nowadays. That said, one (usually the prophet) would be a use-once-every-twenty-minutes toon so I'd sit it somewhere safe. I use 4 PCs and usually play the most complicated toon. BDs can involve a fair amount of work when dancing and hexing. A BD/Tyrant duo can be a right pain when trying to box because both require a fair amount of "activity" to get the best DPS.
It can be done but boxing many more than that is gonna get tricky unless you can get a single input device to feed multiple PCs and set the macros up accordingly. I still doubt you could play the toons at a level that made this an effective option.
I dual box, two l2 sessions on one computer and window and overlap the screens. P4 3 gig with 2 gigs of ram. It's been laggy as heck as of lately though, not sure why.
I dual box, two l2 sessions on one computer and window and overlap the screens. P4 3 gig with 2 gigs of ram. It's been laggy as heck as of lately though, not sure why.
It's stupid. Very stupid. And ******ed.
And laggy.
Im down from a grand total of 5 clients on this PC running, meh rather well, to a whopping 3 clients that lag like crazy.
Ummm similar setup to you, probably better video card i dunno, 7800 gtx geforce.
But yeah its really lame so ive just been chilling in giran making money. =/ =/
geforce 6800 gt here. I went from running both with no problems to lagging every 5-10 seconds :/
I'm willing to believe that the lag problems people are having is related to the audio system changes that were made in interlude. Curiously, what audio chip/card are you using?
Personally I have an Audigy 2 and have not had any lag problems like people have been reporting. One way to check is for someone who has the lag problems to disable their sound as a test and see if the lag is still there.
Not so unrelated, I DID have a 'lag type' problem a while back. Turns out that it was a (ATI) Catalyst driver and MS .NET issue that only affected win 2K as far as I ever determined. When I finally changed over to XP the problem disappeared, even though all the rest of the hardware stayed the same.
I'm suffering from major lag also (only in the last week or so) to the extent that I can press a key for my toon to do something, there's no response for a second or two then she'll do it. The annoying thing is that the mobs are still running at normal speed :mad:
I'm suffering from major lag also (only in the last week or so) to the extent that I can press a key for my toon to do something, there's no response for a second or two then she'll do it. The annoying thing is that the mobs are still running at normal speed :mad:
This occur because mob moviment is predictible by the server but play movimento no. Then server can calculate and render mob but cant do the same with players.
I'm suffering from major lag also (only in the last week or so) to the extent that I can press a key for my toon to do something, there's no response for a second or two then she'll do it. The annoying thing is that the mobs are still running at normal speed :mad:
I've been getting that.
I have found that the "sit/stand" icon works immediately and clears the delay. You can then carry on as normal.
Your room is way too neat and tidy !
You should see mine.
I have 2 pcs, one on top, the other slung under my desk. A 19" and 17" panel. If I dual box or dual pc then I control each pc with a mouse in each hand.
Your room is way too neat and tidy !
You should see mine.
I have 2 pcs, one on top, the other slung under my desk. A 19" and 17" panel. If I dual box or dual pc then I control each pc with a mouse in each hand.
I would do that, but my left hand is soo ******ed that I am better off using my right hand and switching between mice.
Your room is way too neat and tidy !
You should see mine.
I have 2 pcs, one on top, the other slung under my desk. A 19" and 17" panel. If I dual box or dual pc then I control each pc with a mouse in each hand.
I'm terrible when it comes to ergonomics.
Three PC's and a lounge chair (4, if you count the notebook) are what I use. That's right, I said a lounge chair, no desk, no office chair. Only a leather recliner with a high back will do for those long grinds!
The 22" LCD (main) monitor is in front of me on a small stone nesting table-like column, the 19" LCD (secondary) is on top of one of the PC's and the smaller 17" LCD is on the floor. (I get the upgrade bug often. My plan is to buy a second plasma, albeit 55", and use my current 42" as my main monitor. No, not really concerned about burn in at that point. No doubt, this will be the final straw that gets me sent to a nice padded cell indefinitely.)
Input devices? Two of the mice sit on my right arm rest, while the third is either on top of one of the computers or in my lap, depending on whether or not I'm buffing in town exclusively, or in the field.
As for keyboards, the main and secondary are both wireless. The main is my lap, and the secondary is perched to my left on a stone nesting table similar to the aforementioned column. The 3rd keyboard I typically lean up against the side of the lounge chair.
And for those that are curious, yes, my studio has it's own unique magnetic field. I sometimes even glow in the dark when the lights go out. A small price to pay, don't you think?
I never did get into the whole two computers deal even though we've got 4 computers in the computer room.
I just quad box on my one, its just as fast and with macro's you really dont have to pay too much attention. (Alt tab, F1 buff, alt tab twice, F1 buff, alt tab three times, etc)
Well, I just got myself a 2nd account and tried to play with 2 l2 clients on the same pc.
My setup is AMD Athlon 4400 Dual-Core
1 Giga memory
ATI 850 256 card
Well, was I dissapointed or what?
I alt+enter to place both client windows next to each other, things were getting SO SLOW it was frightening.
And then crit error after crit error. So I ditched one clent and played as usual with the other. :-(
Do you think that with a newer and much stronger card (something like GTX8800 768) things would improve? Or do I need to run other client from seperate pc?
I box BD, dwarves and TH to support my SE, and earn some adena myself respectively.
But I got tired of SE, really ... not that I could not get party - there is always somebody wanting SE in ally, but I just cannot stand the fact I am helpless most of the time, can't do anything but buff, recharge and sometimes heal if none better healer is around ... actually DOING something is very hard being SE. Oh yeah, I can collect drops while recharging mages and roting mobs for archers, yeah, GG.
Dual (or more) boxing depends a LOT on your computer stats. For windows XP, I recommend 750mb ram for 1 l2 and then 256mb ram per extra l2 you want to run.
For vista I think I'd go with 1gb ram for 1 l2 and then 256 per extra.
But those are really the minimum requirements to even consider using it. If you want to run it smoothly, get at least a good 500mb ram extra to run stuff like msn, internet explorer, notepad, etc.
Your video card will have a lot to do with it also. My old geforce 6600GT has a few secs lag when I alt-tab, but my laptop's Go7300 is pretty much instant. So I run pp + se on laptop and then whatever dd I play on my desktop.
For CPU, I think my p4 2.5g desktop uses something like 10% cpu if it had a second l2 running. If you put them side-by-side, you'll notice the second window is running at like 0.5fps and uses very minimal cpu + gpu. Alt-tabbing gives a huge spike to both your cpu and gpu though.
PP doesn't use any skills "actively" (I just alt-tab to it every 20 mins for buffs and rest of time it follows doing nothing). My se is targeted on my dd. F1 is attack (I use it for follow), F2 is heal, f5 is recharge. So F5+F1 is a recharge + follow, so I don't really have to look at the laptop to recharge myself.
I Love the game. I hate the players that make the excuse that they have to bot a buffpet to play the game.
You act as if anyone really wants to play support.
Oh I'm sorry, there are like the 15 die hards on these forums who actually play them... thats enough for all the servers I'm sure.
But hey, you can do the end game dungeons without buffs right? Who needs em.
Accept the game for what it is, or move on. Buffs are critical. Hardly anyone wants to play Buffers. Both are facts, dont be bitter, dont whine, dont complain, accept it.
I Love the game. I hate the players that make the excuse that they have to bot a buffpet to play the game.
I've always viewed buffpets as a convenience, not a necessity. We don't NEED them to play the game. It's like everything else in life, you do certain things to make circumstances more amenable to your whim, as opposed to being at the mercy of circumstance. Buffpets are enabling.
I say hate the game, and not the player, because the devs could have easily made it possible to purchase buffs from NPC's. They want to drain excess adena from the game, well that would do it. But NCSoft wouldn't reap the rewards from having gamers fill their coffers with multiple subscription fees, now would they? Seems like everyone knows how to turn virtual fair into actual, realized profits. Hate the game.
Let's put it this way then, I hate NA players. Because from the many Japanese and Korean players I have met here in Japan, none of them think that the servers they play on have anywhere near the same attitude that the NA servers do.
If the NA servers are supposed to be the afterthought of the devs, then how is it that the forefront of the game plays it differently.
No one CAN play support, this is why there are only "15" die-hards support class players left. An entire playstyle has been eliminated by NA players choices, not because NC forced them upon anyone.
No one CAN play support, this is why there are only "15" die-hards support class players left.
Let's be clear, there is a big difference between "CAN" and "WANT." While I can play any of my buffers/healers very effectively, my enjoyment is playing one of the other classes under my umbrella.
And maybe there is something to the cultural phenomenon that you allude to. Most NA people that I know aren't willing to play an ancillary role to the greater good, as where other cultures espouse the value of the "tiniest pebble" theory.
But we are also taught to maximize our enjoyment and experiences, and be innovative wherever possible. Like it or not, that's all that dual boxing is... an innovation that has now become a trend.
Show me someone who closely follows parameters, and I'll show you someone who lacks ingenuity and has a very limited breadth of imagination.
Let's put it this way then, I hate NA players. Because from the many Japanese and Korean players I have met here in Japan, none of them think that the servers they play on have anywhere near the same attitude that the NA servers do.
If the NA servers are supposed to be the afterthought of the devs, then how is it that the forefront of the game plays it differently.
No one CAN play support, this is why there are only "15" die-hards support class players left. An entire playstyle has been eliminated by NA players choices, not because NC forced them upon anyone.
You know, back when there weren't 20 kinds of cheap potions and brezzes and "omg healers are such leaches I'd rather use a pot".
VR did more to negate healers then any kind of potion ever invented.
No one goes out hunting using exclusively GHP's, they'll drag a VR buffer behind them.
True.
The other thing that really screwed healers over were the mass of ******ed people playing the healer classes. People who didnt take any time to learn their class and really were Leaches. I dont know how many times I have been burned by healers that randomly go afk or dont pay attention to hp or get aggro and start running around like idiots and pull much more aggro.
If I come across a healer that knows what they are doing, they will always be welcome in my party. The ones who are stupid will get no sympathy from me. I WILL use a boxed buffer / healer over having a stupid one in my party.
Yes, I'm well aware of VR, I just didn't need the SE's plotting my death again ;) C3, to me, was age of VR, where for melee VR + heals almost as good as a bishops meant no room for bishops and EE's.
I'm sorry, but I think the language barrier is griefing you. You don't seem to understand anything the players are telling you. Support classes in the game are so simplistic and mundane that no one wants to play them. NA players don't play video games like a job. We don't like hunting without BSpS in lower level zones taking years to farm the adena to buy our equipment. Buffs are a quick fix to any combat-related situation, it's the game's design.
Because buffer/healer classes offer little to no excitement to a playstyle that is all about "fun and excitement" and not mundane redundancy, many NA players choose to box their buffers. This is not limited to Lineage 2. Players in WoW/EverQuest/EverQuest 2 also do the same thing.
There was an entire guild of 6 boxers in EverQuest (each person = 1 group). They had less than 10 active members (all with 6 accounts) and used to clear high end raid zones with their boxes. They weren't even farmers, I met a few of them at a FanFair in New Orleans a couple of years ago...
Fair? That's your opinion. But it sure as hell is funner to be able to advance in the game and not be totally dependent on 5, 6, 10, 20, 30 other people - isn't it. Lineage 2 has made it difficult to enjoy playing a buffer class because most of them are so passive in the end-game PvP play. Most people want to kill people, not buff or heal them.
Your ignorance is what causes you to make such baseless complaints and prejudiced statements. Enjoy you Japanese Server, if you choose to go that route. The Asian playstyle is very un-fun for 85+% of NA players, who are really competitive by comparison.
Yes, I'm well aware of VR, I just didn't need the SE's plotting my death again ;) C3, to me, was age of VR, where for melee VR + heals almost as good as a bishops meant no room for bishops and EE's.
Up until A Grade, that is still the case. I can eat a VR nerf if they give SEs Major Heal. But I like playing my SE actively too much to have it anyother way, IMO.
I Love the game. I hate the players that make the excuse that they have to bot a buffpet to play the game.
You know what I hated the most?
Waiting for a buffer to log in. Cause there's are the whole 3 US time zones, European time zones, etc. I also hated when the live buffer had to break party about 30 minutes after. I hated having to remind the buffer to do their job (on a few rare occasions). Then I also hated when the buffer buffed and went afk for 19 minutes, I'd appreciate him/her to at least pick up the bloody adena drops, but even that is too much for some people.
You know what though, my buff bot does not ask for gear, does not whyne about partying for several hours at a time, and it sure as heck does not cry when it dies to random aggro, and at the end of the day, I get double the mats/adena since all drops go to me. =)
See how all my problems have been solved by adding a buffbot? :p
When I'm red, she tries to kill me.
Forgets buffs, or buff all together.
Loses AF so I HAVE TO KILL HER! She makes my karma go bad :'( (seriously :p)
Heals herself instead of me when I'm in trouble!
Gets stuck!
Forgets to sign for 7 signs! >.<
Steals my Tallum helmet!
...
When I'm red, she tries to kill me.
Forgets buffs, or buff all together.
Loses AF so I HAVE TO KILL HER! She makes my karma go bad :'( (seriously :p)
Heals herself instead of me when I'm in trouble!
Gets stuck!
Forgets to sign for 7 signs! >.<
Steals my Tallum helmet!
...
ROFL that is awesome :p
PS: Pirotesa, by the way, notice how I didn't say I'll never party a live Buffer again, however, I no longer depend on them for exping. So if you're on Bartz and can't get a party, you can look me up. ;)
The game is not only competition at pvp.
be happy to talk to your boxed chars,and play a role with this.
maybe a single player game is better for you.
if you need to boxed, you are to weak to play this hardcore game.
if you dont find a real support,it is on yours....you not able to play it right.
i'll never party boxed user....we only play with real players.
that is why we play a mmorpg,..to play with others not with myself.
if you box, dont talk to me,tell this your boxed chars....
The game is not only competition at pvp.
be happy to talk to your boxed chars,and play a role with this.
maybe a single player game is better for you.
if you need to boxed, you are to weak to play this hardcore game.
if you dont find a real support,it is on yours....you not able to play it right.
i'll never party boxed user....we only play with real players.
that is why we play a mmorpg,..to play with others not with myself.
if you box, dont talk to me,tell this your boxed chars....
Sticks and Stones Love, Sticks and Stones.
By the way, I'm soo bloody sorry that NC made your class Useless by design. I promise, I had nothing to do with that it's faster to duo/solo than group. I had nothing to do with the fact that on a lvl 70+ raid group, you'll get 6k xp (provided you don't die during the raid). I had nothing to do with the fact that you have the Worst and the most boring class to play and it seems like Buffers and Healers were meant to be Boxed from the Conception of this game. It sure is not my fault that most people who started out as a support char have eventually either 2 boxed, or rerolled, so that now reliably finding a support toon to group with is next to impossible at times.
You know how they could have made it a necessity to have LIVE buffers/healers? How about actually having a group party giving good xp, or how about having buffs with a time difference, ie: some buffs last for 5 min, some 10, 15, 19, 30. You know why there's such a demand for Bladedancers/Swordsingers? Because unless everyone walks, they need live people to play those 2 classes. Every other class such as Bishop, EE, SE, WC, OL, buff for 19 minutes, then they are free to surf the net till the next buff cycle.
It has nothing to do with a failure to play an MMO. In every MMO except Final Fantasy, you can solo with relative ease. It's a game with time boundaries, Real Life complications, etc, etc, etc. So I can play the game however I choose as long as I pay for it, mmkay?
So how about before attacking people in Real Life ideologies, use the power of your lil' noggin and think about the bigger picture for a change?
;)
Indeed.. In essence L2 is just another glorfied chatting program. Might as well play Solitare while chatting on MSN or something.. you COULD make that argument, but my Prophets *** is hot in combination with my human fighter's ***, kick *** combo!
Not to mention how many parties I've saved/created by always having an option ^^ Though I hate bringing her into parties, she gets so ****** :<
nothing to say?!
you can make the game design like you want,it dosent help.
the dev's tried it,take a look at other games.
if there are no support classes the ppl will box fighters.
take a step further...
its only about what people choose and how they choose to act
whan sm choose boxed buffer, healer over real one, i would not be suprised to find tham back in town some time later coz they died of bad spawn, war, lag, dc, or whatever, yes that could happen with live healer/buffer also but you can reduce the chances of that with good real healer/buffer and you will help also to lv up that real healer/buffer, make friend with him, make more partys with him, so he doesnt need to quit the game coz he cant find partys or he feels that his class is usless...
its only about the way how you choose to play the game, all others are just a excuses for your lazyness and selfishness
nothing to say?!
you can make the game design like you want,it dosent help.
the dev's tried it,take a look at other games.
if there are no support classes the ppl will box fighters.
take a step further...
No offence to ya, but explain what you are talking about as I'm not sure what you mean.
Well, I decided to dual box but not to play with myself (sic) and exp my main faster.
I just have the other account to sell drops 24/7
If I wanted to play all alone vs the pc, I wouldn't go for an online game anyway.
What attracts me to l2 are mainly the ppl that I play with.
The fact that most of the ppl in l2 are not taking any time to joke, share thoughts, and interact in all sorts of ways, but instead prefer to fight in silence, then fight some more, then go "pawn" and "noob"... it's just sad.
My attitude in life is always the same. Don't believe absolute truths.
"Buffer classes are useless" "Healers are useless" "DD are Gods", etc.
Well, I love playing a necro. Recently though I started a SE, and I equally love taking care of my mates, buffing and healing them.
Duels with the Necro offer HUGE excitement, but I also get excited every time I save my party while in the brink of death.
Hey, I think you can have fun with all the characters. Now if you are attracted to one style, fine. Just don't get the idea of playing 2-3 roles by myself, just to exp faster. Where's the socializing that online gaming should offer?
Fishing rod! Acumen isn't more important than your live.
As for the reason buffers get boxed? They are freaking, bloody overpowered. That is, the buffs, not the buffers. Think for a moment just how much a buffer adds to someone's hunting - just by clicking a few buttons every few minutes. Take the time to play with l2calc (http://www.l2guru.com/l2calc) a bit and consider the difference that the buffs make.
The presence of a prophet alone can more than double the damage output of a group - try making a DD do that ... maybe a low HP orc could. But then, think of a low HP orc with buffs.
You don't need a buffer to hunt, but you do need a buffer to hunt at any even remotely decent pace.
What we need? An across-the-board boost to experience, a harsh nerf to all buffs including self-buffs, dances and songs, and a boost for the base classes that do use buffs so they are not completely crippled without them.
Buffers getting 100% benefit of their own buffs while casting those buffs on others will result in a 50% benefit for those others you mean? (example there)
I could live with that. The buffer classes only would need a passive skill that would do that, hell maybe call it "Optimize".
How about we just leave it the way it is, and people stop whining about something thats standard in every MMORPG on the freaking market? :X
Buffers have always been boxed, its just the way it is. To Shadowbane, to WoW, etc. We all know the reason (profit) and we all know that it isnt going to change.
I'm still stumped why people are even arguing over it and treating the players like the bad guys for doing it. Take your little finger, point it at your beloved Lineage 2 game, and point it right there.
How about we just leave it the way it is, and people stop whining about something thats standard in every MMORPG on the freaking market? :X
Buffers have always been boxed, its just the way it is. To Shadowbane, to WoW, etc. We all know the reason (profit) and we all know that it isnt going to change.
I'm still stumped why people are even arguing over it and treating the players like the bad guys for doing it. Take your little finger, point it at your beloved Lineage 2 game, and point it right there.
How about I disagree to what you see as the better idea, k?
The game is not only competition at pvp.
be happy to talk to your boxed chars,and play a role with this.
maybe a single player game is better for you.
if you need to boxed, you are to weak to play this hardcore game.
if you dont find a real support,it is on yours....you not able to play it right.
i'll never party boxed user....we only play with real players.
that is why we play a mmorpg,..to play with others not with myself.
if you box, dont talk to me,tell this your boxed chars....
Well, I decided to dual box but not to play with myself (sic) and exp my main faster.
I just have the other account to sell drops 24/7
If I wanted to play all alone vs the pc, I wouldn't go for an online game anyway.
What attracts me to l2 are mainly the ppl that I play with.
The fact that most of the ppl in l2 are not taking any time to joke, share thoughts, and interact in all sorts of ways, but instead prefer to fight in silence, then fight some more, then go "pawn" and "noob"... it's just sad.
:)
Well, here's where you and I differ. I don't really care about an ingame party, especially with strangers. Since I'm not in Europe, the chances of me finding someone who lives anywhere close to me are pretty **** low, so trying to transpose an online friendship into an RL frienship if youre in USA is hard. Europe on the other hand is easy, take a train, drive your car, etc.
On occasion I'll party with a clannie or a friend, but almost never with people I don't know, because you know what, I don't log in to L2 to interract with people. I log in to L2 to get away from my Real Life issues, concerns, troubles, etc. So when I'm in L2, my goal is to get to 75 1st, everything else 2nd. At the same time, people in the clan/ally are usually talking, so that counts as "player to player" interraction.
When I want to interract with people, I'd go to a club, friends, you know, out of the game places that have real live human interraction. But that's just my perspective on that. ;)
I 5 box on one computer, and I can 3 box on the second. I havent tried to box more than 5 on my main because I Dont need to, but it runs so flawlessly im sure I can (although im already short on monitor space at 4 boxes. . .)
specs:
2.40 gigahertz Intel Core 2 Duo
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
4096 kilobyte secondary memory cache
320.06 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
267.83 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5NSLI 1.XX
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD ASUS P5NSLI ACPI BIOS Revision 1104 03/12/2007
1536 Megabytes Installed Memory (Gunna upgrade to 4 gigs or so when I get the time)
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT [Display adapter]
And, of course
Nostromo n52 HID SpeedPad 2.0 :)
Now, it seems people have better computers than me and yet are having problems two boxing, if thats you try reformatting and then tweaking your computer for performance. I have no lag whatsoever, so if you have anything near this you shouldnt either. . .
Few tips
If you're having the problem where your box is right behind you on your screen, but 56 miles away in the game, just move it one step when you're done using it, they wont try to follow you and thus wont get the bug, you can also target them as they follow you and it will tell you the real position.
Get a nostromo! They help SO much with boxing, you can bind all your buff macros to a single key, easily use macros without having to move your hand around and it saves a lot of time when switching clients.
It's kind of sad to play a MMORPG and solo with boxes though. Anti-social much? I used to box to further my in-game goals; but then I realized (after getting a real life), it doesn't mean [censored] in a few years, why bother...just make friends and have fun.
You're a prophet, it comes with a certain bias. :P
I played through almost 100% of this game with a friend who joined with me, if boxing a few extra characters helps us achieve our goals faster. . I dont see a problem with it. It doesnt make you anti-social, either. Just because you're not in a party with others doesnt mean you're not talking to others in chat or vent.
People still assume that the primary point of boxing is soloing.
Here's some food for thought: I started out on Lionna boxing a prophte and an EE - which is the only way I could invite people into party beyond the prophet's normal MP capacity (and no, getting another SE/EE/Prophet wasn't always an option).
No offense, but playing a DD/boxing the buffer, and soloing (only grouping the buffer when it needs to level up i.e. rechargers - PP can stay at 56/58) is the best way to play the game IMO.
I'm sorry, but Lineage 2 was seemingly designed for solo play. In other games, EQ1 for example (since I've played it for > 5 years) even the best soloing classes looked for groups often, because there were BENEFITS to grouping outside of "it's the only way to get XP". Support classes actually can level faster than some DDs because people want them in groups. You can actually camp named mobs and *OMGZ!* get a full drop regularly. Mobs for the most part weren't soloable (in the best XP zones), but group XP was balanced and you could actually see your XP bar move at a consistent rate.
Lineage 2 is made for solo playstyle, however. The only reason why the healer and buffer classes are in the game are to provide the little utility needed for DD classes to solo (buffs, recharges) and to provide support during PvP events like group PvP and Seiges. Outside of that, they are worthless and, for the most part, useless.
If you don't agree, then you haven't played many other MMOs where support classes are the most wanted classes in the game. It's not cause their overpowered, it's cause there's always something for them to do. Lineage 2 support classes are best left AFK on the spare computer.
But that's just IMO.
If I actually felt like raiding hardcore, I'd prolly not bother to play it. But I have to admit, the game is so "designed for solo play" that once you get into it, you cannot give it up that quickly. It makes 5 minutes of "LFG" in EverQuest seem like an eternity.
Also, I don't have to raid for gear. I can just buy it with the money I earned soloing mobs with nice adena/mat drops and quests! Yay! I believe buff classes were designed to be easily boxxed for this purpose - Only the Bishop is a bit different in that it require more active play comparatively - but who boxes a Bishop for buffs anyways (D Grade Buffs?)?
No offense, but playing a DD/boxing the buffer, and soloing (only grouping the buffer when it needs to level up i.e. rechargers - PP can stay at 56/58) is the best way to play the game IMO.
I'm sorry, but Lineage 2 was seemingly designed for solo play. In other games, EQ1 for example (since I've played it for > 5 years) even the best soloing classes looked for groups often, because there were BENEFITS to grouping outside of "it's the only way to get XP". Support classes actually can level faster than some DDs because people want them in groups. You can actually camp named mobs and *OMGZ!* get a full drop regularly. Mobs for the most part weren't soloable (in the best XP zones), but group XP was balanced and you could actually see your XP bar move at a consistent rate.
Lineage 2 is made for solo playstyle, however. The only reason why the healer and buffer classes are in the game are to provide the little utility needed for DD classes to solo (buffs, recharges) and to provide support during PvP events like group PvP and Seiges. Outside of that, they are worthless and, for the most part, useless.
If you don't agree, then you haven't played many other MMOs where support classes are the most wanted classes in the game. It's not cause their overpowered, it's cause there's always something for them to do. Lineage 2 support classes are best left AFK on the spare computer.
But that's just IMO.
If I actually felt like raiding hardcore, I'd prolly not bother to play it. But I have to admit, the game is so "designed for solo play" that once you get into it, you cannot give it up that quickly. It makes 5 minutes of "LFG" in EverQuest seem like an eternity.
Also, I don't have to raid for gear. I can just buy it with the money I earned soloing mobs with nice adena/mat drops and quests! Yay!
If all you're basement-dwelling rhetoric is true, then you're assuming if everyone solo'd there'd be spots for everyone? Not likely. Why are there many non-solo areas if the game was meant to solo? Why is a party in Pagans on my bladedancer better exp than soloing w/ SE off party if your comments are true? Why can a Heirophant ravage most classes in Olympiad if they're better off AFK? If I'm better off AFK, why can I hit for about 65% the DPS of an equally geared/buffed DD (hence weapon masteries, noob)? Lv 56/58 PP? Lol, noob, PoF is worth 78. If everyone played one account, the game would look more like EQ (your example). I knew people who boxed healers in EQ btw. BTW multi-boxers (ones like you, of course) are many, many times more likely (I'd say 1x per extra account) to illegally purchase gear becuase they're willing to do anything to get ahead, including scorning real buffers/healers; what's stopping them from doing other sad things such as buying adena? Nothing.
Perhaps on one hand NCSoft designed this game for maximum profit (boxes, adena-buying, power-lvling), or maybe, just maybe they didn't expect people box full parties and tell others to [censored] themselves. I've played FFXI, EQ, EQ2, WoW, GW- so I know exactly what I'm talking about, guy.
I'm afraid, and "sorry", but you're wrong in all aspects. I know people who box but will let a real player in it's stead any time and they're good people. You're not playing Lineage II, your comments make that clear that you've never experienced end-game. Have fun with all these "adena/mat drops and quests" you're getting with your mom's credit card.
multi-boxers (ones like you, of course) are many, many times more likely (I'd say 1x per extra account) to illegally purchase gear becuase they're willing to do anything to get ahead, including scorning real buffers/healers; what's stopping them from doing other sad things such as buying adena? Nothing.
Perhaps on one hand NCSoft designed this game for maximum profit (boxes, adena-buying, power-lvling), or maybe, just maybe they didn't expect people box full parties and tell others to [censored] themselves. I've played FFXI, EQ, EQ2, WoW, GW- so I know exactly what I'm talking about, guy.
I'm gonna call BS on that one bun, just b/c people box means nothing about how susceptable they are to taking an illegal route. I play 3 accounts, I must have ebayed all my stuff? yeah....right. your forgeting another of the the reasons people box: playtime (or lack thereof). I'm lucky to get in more than 2-3 hours at a time and I have no desire to spend half that time looking for a party (or more) and then have to leave just as the party gets going. this way I can make my own parties and party whatever friends need a party for the time I am on (and I agree w/ you on the lvl 78 prophecy thing which is why my WC and bishop are staying in party the whole time :P)
Well, he is a Necro, prolly never tested AoE. I box SE and soon PP too, but that doesnt mean I dont invite other people into the same party, it just means that even if there is no live SE or PP around, we're still good to go. For AoE ofcourse, the healers need to be live ;)
Soloing isnt really antisocial behaviour if you're active in clan/ally chat or have a huge friendlist and constant pm's going. Party chat is just one way of talking in the game, and really, some classes in some places are better off solo.
If all you're basement-dwelling rhetoric is true, then you're assuming if everyone solo'd there'd be spots for everyone? Not likely. Why are there many non-solo areas if the game was meant to solo?
Why are so many groups so dependent on certain classes that it still leaves other out in the dust. I don't see Bishops in Archer groups, and I don't see prophets in Nuker groups. I'm sure your Pagan's groups always have similar setups. Would they even go without a Bladedancer? It's not basement-dwellin rhetoric, it's a fact and I'm sorry you're too dumb to see it. Excuse me for using that term, but your post seems only written to insult.
Why is a party in Pagans on my bladedancer better exp than soloing w/ SE off party if your comments are true? Why can a Heirophant ravage most classes in Olympiad if they're better off AFK
Again, a nuker will still XP faster than you solo, and archers may also do it. Archers can do Archer groups (which require specific group setups not friendly to many other classes) and XP just as fast. Olympiad is a joke, don't mention that shiit to me - LMAO. Olympiad doesn't have jack to do with PvE usefullness.
If I'm better off AFK, why can I hit for about 65% the DPS of an equally geared/buffed DD (hence weapon masteries, noob)? Lv 56/58 PP? Lol, noob, PoF is worth 78.
Because you can only hit for *about* 65% of an equally buffed/geared DD (hence weapon masteries, noob) - get an OOP BD Box and bring a dagger, invite BD only for songs (it works fine) the same way we invite OOP PPs for Zerk. Leveling a PP from 58-75 is long, and 75-78 takes about as long as that also - PoF may be worth it, but there are WC who can give comparable buffs. I level my SE actively in clan/alliance groups, do you?
If everyone played one account, the game would look more like EQ (your example). I knew people who boxed healers in EQ btw. BTW multi-boxers (ones like you, of course) are many, many times more likely (I'd say 1x per extra account) to illegally purchase gear becuase they're willing to do anything to get ahead, including scorning real buffers/healers; what's stopping them from doing other sad things such as buying adena? Nothing.
Probably because you don't read all my posts. The gear on my 56 SE is C grade, Divine Set/Mysterious Sword SA Acumen/no helm. I have absolutely no problem gimping my way through levels gearwise on any of my toons. I also have no problem selling everything I have to buy what I need. Ask Foxie, she seen me selling my soul in Giran to afford an A Grade weapon. I don't need to purchase gear.
You cannot compare EQ to L2 as far as boxing goes, so your argument fails. Ask any level 70-75 tank if they solo Riftseeker or any high level zone with a cleric box without downtime. Maybe the #1-5 tanks serverwide, but that is a rare occurence. The cleric will be out of mana from "battlehealing". You could use a Shaman for slow, but their heals suck compared to Clerics, and you'd be in the same situation.
You cannot level from 1 to 75 with just a Cleric/Shaman/Druid/Enchanter box and expect to be in the equivalent of DC/Majestic/Draconic/etc. in that game. That's why you can clearly see that the game is designed for solo playstyles. In L2, even without a box (nuker/archer/etc.) you can solo to 80 just fine, equip yourself, and be on your way. I stopped leveling at 56 to level up my buffer, btw (why she's lagging in levels behind me still), and I got there fast without buffs, ask anyone I know.
Perhaps on one hand NCSoft designed this game for maximum profit (boxes, adena-buying, power-lvling), or maybe, just maybe they didn't expect people box full parties and tell others to [censored] themselves. I've played FFXI, EQ, EQ2, WoW, GW- so I know exactly what I'm talking about, guy.
Lineage 2 isn't the only MMO on the market (EverQuest 4 years older?), so they cannot actually come here and say "we don't expect people to box buffers in our [overpowered] buff-dependent game of unbalanced PvP". It just won't roll over. Buffers were made for one purpose, and that is to buff. You have to be very clueless to not see that. Olympiad is no substitute for lack of PvE prowess, they suck - plain, and simple - and are worthless outside of their niche abilities (overtaken by buff boxes).
I'm afraid, and "sorry", but you're wrong in all aspects. I know people who box but will let a real player in it's stead any time and they're good people. You're not playing Lineage II, your comments make that clear that you've never experienced end-game. Have fun with all these "adena/mat drops and quests" you're getting with your mom's credit card.
I'm very sorry also, but you obviously haven't played other games enough to know wth you're talking about. In GW, they give you henchmen to let you solo with a full party of automated characters (i.e. not real people). Healers are wanted HIGHLY in that game, you always have two in level 20/high level mission parties. But, every mission is completable with henchmen. NCSoft created that game, and it is designed for soloers (more casual soloers, but soloers nonetheless).
You have to have really nice gear and lots of AAs to solo effectively at high levels in EverQuest. WoW and EQ aren't even that similar, like some people make it out to be. The fastest way to solo 65-70 in EverQuest required you to have many flags to have access to Plane of Fire tables, and if you weren't a class with snare there you were most probably in a group there (where buff classes were MORE than welcome).
Lineage 2 = create 2 level one toons (1 DD, 1 Buffer) and enjoy the road to level 80.
Just because you have opinions on what is worth what (like getting a PP to 78) is rather non-factor, and only you opinion. Thanks for letting me know, enjoy leveling up another toon to 78.
And LOL at you calling me an eBayer.
That's just icing on the cake you [censored] dummy.
Well, he is a Necro, prolly never tested AoE. I box SE and soon PP too, but that doesnt mean I dont invite other people into the same party, it just means that even if there is no live SE or PP around, we're still good to go. For AoE ofcourse, the healers need to be live ;)
Soloing isnt really antisocial behaviour if you're active in clan/ally chat or have a huge friendlist and constant pm's going. Party chat is just one way of talking in the game, and really, some classes in some places are better off solo.
And there is a huge difference between healers (Bishop, EE) and buffer (Prophet, SE, WC, OL).
One can be boxxed to *near* maximum effectiveness, the other cannot.
I box because I liek being able to do things myself - botting or ebaying would destroy the point.
But then, what Buns says holds true for many. However, while it is true for most, it is not always true - just as the "scorn" for real buffers or healers. Maybe I'm scorning real DDs because I always want a DD ready to take me out to exp?
ETA: I don't see many boxed buffers attacking (although I'm one myself, and I do), pulling, CCing etc. The only thing that can be boxed to "near" maximum efficiency is a DD... just get the assist macro ready. ;p
I wanna see you box OL to near maximum effectiveness.
Btw, Destro/WL/Dwarf will exp faster in a party than your necro solo, boo hoo. Party exp > solo exp.
That depends entirely on your specific server.
Sure if you could go into a cat and grab 4-5 rooms, you betcha.
However, when you go into a cat and you can barely get *1* room let alone 2, I'd love to see how you would exp faster then a Necro who can hit up dozens of potential area's, where as you are limited to a select few area's. (Unless you intend to poll 1X mobs)
You can pole outside catacombs (GoE, Pavel's, DVC etc.).
And necros are MORE limited in spots - after all, they are competing for spots with all the FotM archers and nukers. Have you tried to find a good spot in VoS or FotD? x.x
You can pole outside catacombs (GoE, Pavel's, DVC etc.).
And necros are MORE limited in spots - after all, they are competing for spots with all the FotM archers and nukers. Have you tried to find a good spot in VoS or FotD? x.x
I'd completely disagree.
Having to hunt up about 13 million in AA (ugh..) I had the worst time of my life in the Cats. Every room had a bot train in it, to the point I ended up just buying it all. (Buh bye 26 mil!)
Compared to VoS or FotD where I can get a spot instantly with myself and my PP. If (and it never has been but IF!) VoS & FotD is full, I've got at least 4 other potential area's I can go too and get the exact same exp, with diffrent quests to boot! (Red gems is only in VoS, not FotD which sucks frankly)
GoE poling is for lowbies frankly, as is Pavel. (Unless you mean going inside to the Lab)
DVC aint bad really, but its nothing compared to the Cats and you know that.
I'm not exactly sure which server your on for VoS to be full though. Bartz it for sure isnt. Teon was a bit bad, but still, nothing near full.
GoE, Pavel Ruins, GC, DVC, Skyshadow Meadow, Ancient Battlegrounds, Silent Valley. All good non cata/necro pole places. I dont get it why ppl always think that poling has to be done in catas. Heck, you can get more money doing it in other places, and the exp can be better also.
Also, wanna see a necro competing with 2 Destros Frenzy cycling ^^
GoE and Pavel are obviously lowbie areas - being ... lowbie areas. There's also GC (the upper layers are nice, lower require single-targeters to take out the scouts, which is a PiTA).
And no, DVC is not worse exp than catas in my experience. ^_^
You can pole outside catacombs (GoE, Pavel's, DVC etc.).
And necros are MORE limited in spots - after all, they are competing for spots with all the FotM archers and nukers. Have you tried to find a good spot in VoS or FotD? x.x
Yes, VoS and FoTD have many good spots free all the time. Only a few "choice" spots are botted in by a known farmer clan. Other than that, you can XP 24/7 and never have to worry about grind-spot disputes. Even leave to restock and you spot will be there (or the peson will say np and give it back to you, cause there are like 20 other spots to XP in).
We do Nuker groups in DVC, Lol. I have honestly never seen a poler in there, ever. The XP is nice in the nuker groups, though (everyone has their own SE/EE Lmao) and it's fun as hell.
Boxing buffers and grouping with DD + Buffbox = the best way to group in L2, IMHO. All the DDs seem to be hardcore, all the buffers seem to have infants sitting on their lap - a common occurence IME.
You can pole outside catacombs (GoE, Pavel's, DVC etc.).
And necros are MORE limited in spots - after all, they are competing for spots with all the FotM archers and nukers. Have you tried to find a good spot in VoS or FotD? x.x
Yes, VoS and FoTD have many good spots free all the time. Only a few "choice" spots are botted in by a known farmer clan. Other than that, you can XP 24/7 and never have to worry about grind-spot disputes. Even leave to restock and you spot will be there (or the peson will say np and give it back to you, cause there are like 20 other spots to XP in).
We do Nuker groups in DVC, Lol. I have honestly never seen a poler in there, ever. The XP is nice in the nuker groups, though (everyone has their own SE/EE Lmao) and it's fun as hell.
Boxing buffers and grouping with DD + Buffbox = the best way to group in L2, IMHO. All the DDs seem to be hardcore, all the buffers seem to have infants sitting on their lap - a common occurence IME.
Yeah, having a real life sucks sometimes, not. Sorry not everyone can play 24/7 like you basement-boy. How is this your experience if you only use boxed buffers? Inconsistent arguments. Least I stick to my opinions.
Went there with some friends. It's really funny, though.
Mob: Get Trensharo!
Mob: Get Trensharo First!
Are you talking about the clan with blue tags? Hrm, seen them there yesterday but they actually spoke to me.
I'll make my rounds there and show them some appreciation later.
Have to level my Sin Eater, first.
Nah its a no tag thing. All chinese, the leader is um.. a female SR. God cant remember her name but its funny in a "god she cant speak engrish" type of way.
You can pole outside catacombs (GoE, Pavel's, DVC etc.).
And necros are MORE limited in spots - after all, they are competing for spots with all the FotM archers and nukers. Have you tried to find a good spot in VoS or FotD? x.x
Yes, VoS and FoTD have many good spots free all the time. Only a few "choice" spots are botted in by a known farmer clan. Other than that, you can XP 24/7 and never have to worry about grind-spot disputes. Even leave to restock and you spot will be there (or the peson will say np and give it back to you, cause there are like 20 other spots to XP in).
We do Nuker groups in DVC, Lol. I have honestly never seen a poler in there, ever. The XP is nice in the nuker groups, though (everyone has their own SE/EE Lmao) and it's fun as hell.
Boxing buffers and grouping with DD + Buffbox = the best way to group in L2, IMHO. All the DDs seem to be hardcore, all the buffers seem to have infants sitting on their lap - a common occurence IME.
Yeah, having a real life sucks sometimes, not. Sorry not everyone can play 24/7 like you basement-boy. How is this your experience if you only use boxed buffers? Inconsistent arguments. Least I stick to my opinions.
Are you ******ed?
I said you can XP there 24/7 as a way to express to you that the VoS and FoD areas are not overcamped on my server. I didn't say that I grinded for 24/7. Actually, I can grind for about 10 hours a day if I want, but I don't. It's not like everyone on this forum doesn't know I live in L2 anyways, Lol. NG to Ag in about 3 weeks [LEGIT]. Yes, I get the job done. I'll be 7x in about 3 weeks or less, depending on how slack I am (leveling alts, running toons through academy, PLing clan members, etc.). My roomate is = level to my SE so she levels with him now (gets more XP than with me). I get all the XP - I don't really need her either (more below).
You sure have a funny way of twisting other peoples' words and then jumping to idiotic conclusions.
Are you telling me that the Frenzied Destroyers are not using boxxed buffers poling in high level XP spots? Can they do this for 5-10 hours with no downtime, whatsoever? I can solo without my buffer for 10-14 hours without any downtime (done it 20+ times, I leveled to 56 without her or any consistent buffs outside of herb drops). Don't hate because my my playtime > your playtime.
Fraps or it didn't happen.
BTW. I can now two shot close to every mob in VoS without Greater Empower 3 (CDL Half-Life to save cash, or Death Spike), so I'm more than sure I can XP just as fast without the buffer... Herbs Drop so Recharges are not needed.... In fact, the only time I ever NEEDED Recharges was when I was CDLing in Cemetary (no herb drops) and the buffs weren't required cause everything was a 1 shot without them... Next level is a skill leevl = entire area 2 shot unbuffed. The mobs won't even morph anymore due to spell power...
My opinion has not changed.
The game is made for solo play, which is why buffer classes are so easy to manage. And yea, Healers and buffers are different, EE makes a much better healer than buffer, last time I checked; and, Bishop has mostly D Grade buffs.
Also, just because I say I do nuker groups doesn't make me a liar. I have a Euro friend on my friendlist who logs in every morning and if she is doing a nuker group and there is room, me and my SE are going - buffboxes need XP too. And there's nothing wrong with getting misc recs and mats, my Roommate likes crafting with this dwarf. He think it's fun O.o
I didn't say DVC Nuker Group XP > All. I said it was nice (and it is). It still pales in comparison to what I can do solo in VoS or FoTD (Or even CDL'ing high level mobs in Hot Springs, 3 shot DUO with BD Friend and my SE i.e. 2 buffers), anyways.
Heh, a 78 prophet most certainly isn't useless - but that's something people don't understand if they only ever play with boxes. Good luck killing someone who's been handled by live in party buffers - can be pretty rough on a necromancer.
Or, if your perspective is ever so slightly different, how live support and boxed support are not mutually exclusive, and boxing support (or a DD) doesn't make you hate people who do play that route.
Ok; this is my last post in this topic. And ask anyone of my full friendlist, I'm a very nice person in-game, but no one in my friend list would tell me to [censored] off and use a 2-box (otherwise, /frienddel).
No one seems to get the only true point I'm trying to make, I talk about a lot of things, but the only point to it all is this.
There is nothing wrong with multi-boxing if you don't deny parties to real players in the process.
I get bitter at people such as Trensharo who constantly find it a point to attempt to make players such as I and all other buffers/healers believe we're useless and should re-roll. I will continue to play my class and enjoy every second of it; but I will also never have respect for people with opinions such as Trensharo's or anyone who believes Exp > People.
Actually Trensharo is right with the point that this game is somewhat less efficiwent being played in parties. At least for some classes - I would say majority: any archer, nuker, dagger, and most other fighters are better when soloing either in or OOP buffer. Be it box or live.
There are some nice places designed to be played in party - Stakato nest, Swamp of Screams, Primeval Island - just nobody goes there. Why? You cannot handle it there solo/duo and XP in party awfuly sux (and not being new SBs and charms, even top-level clans would forget about that PI...). Party bonus <<< time and resources spent.
Organizing group for Pagan's takes ages, getting there and wiping enemy clan too, hence, it's better to grab a box and use those 2-3 hours you got before you go to bed to hunt a bit in FOTD or Hotsprings or W/E.
Actually Trensharo is right with the point that this game is somewhat less efficiwent being played in parties. At least for some classes - I would say majority: any archer, nuker, dagger, and most other fighters are better when soloing either in or OOP buffer. Be it box or live.
There are some nice places designed to be played in party - Stakato nest, Swamp of Screams, Primeval Island - just nobody goes there. Why? You cannot handle it there solo/duo and XP in party awfuly sux (and not being new SBs and charms, even top-level clans would forget about that PI...). Party bonus <<< time and resources spent.
Organizing group for Pagan's takes ages, getting there and wiping enemy clan too, hence, it's better to grab a box and use those 2-3 hours you got before you go to bed to hunt a bit in FOTD or Hotsprings or W/E.
Exactly my point.
I respect TheBun's opinion and I have said more than once that I respect live buffers and think they have more grit and determination than the average player because they took the [rought, rocky] road least traveled.
But looking for live buffers, live dancers, etc. is not worth the headache when you can box them and still have similar (or higher) group DPS output.
When I'm trying to level fast and someone wants me to group, yes - I will tell them "Sorry, but grouping is too slow for me, and I'm trying to level." There is nothing wrong with that.
If you think that is wrong, maybe you should write to NCSoft developers and urge them to not make the game so level/buff/gear dependent, and introduce more player-skill involvement. ATM it doesn't matter how much skill I have, cause a player 10 levels higher will still own me 8/10 times.
When this changes, I will be more group-friendly - as I was in other MMOs.
Lineage 2 is my Roomate's first MMO, and he refuses to group because he gets 1/4 the XP gain for the same amout of time (even when killing mobs that give him 2x the XP he gets solo). He doesn't even use my buffer, at all (does it all unbuffed/herbs and makes insane amounts of trips to town for supplies cause he's poorer and buys his SpS/Cursed bones in < amounts). He hunts in Forsaken Plains at 55 (1/2 the XP of VoS from those mobs).
It's just a clear fact.
Your perspective may differ because you cannot kill an 8-13kXP mob in < 5 seconds.