This problem on Devianne is getting way out of hand.... Accounts are being sold for hundreds to thousands of dollars/euros of RL cash, and its getting so blantant now that these certain people are bragging about it other forums.
Not for nothing but it takes a lot of mine and others desire to play this game when they see people who never played l2 before in top sgrade level 78 - 80 nobles and heros.
Tell me what you need me to get to get these accounts perma banned and Ill try to get it for you, problem is also compounded by if they do admit to it in game they speak in a foreign language (not going to say which one but most people can figure it out from devianne)
We have always accept a certain amount of ebaying botting and farmers but now its taking it to new extremes just as an example 1 person spent 1500 euros on a Chant of Victory doomcryer.
So please leave this open for HGMSpam to tell the community what we can do to get rid of these people who obviously are not here to play L2 but instead Counterstrike.
If NCSoft NA/EU has no-one in the team who speaks Russian, Greek and some other languages a lot of users of L2 speak, they should really work on getting them.
Just curious as to why it matters to you if someone would sell their account?
While I can't speak for anyone else, I can say as a legit person playing a competitive game, it is quite disconcerting when your enemies crop up with a dozen nobles out of nowhere with you in their target scope.
Just curious as to why it matters to you if someone would sell their account?
For example, it kind of spoils the fun when you try to siege somebody who has lvl 78+ bought ex-farmer buffer accounts behind every party, while on your side you struggle with only a handfull of high level buffers (since not many actually play them as a main) and cannot give everybody all the buffs you want. In other words: it is blatantly unfair when one side does not need anybody to actually lvl up key classes, but can just pull out a credit card and buy everything they want.
I normally dont agree whit slycutter on many things,but on this one he is right.This problem is getting way out of hand,and needs to be looked at from NCsoft.Alot of old players who played this game for years are leaving the game,simply because they cannot compete or refuse to resolve to these methods of buying 100+ millions of adena and 1000+ Euros of accounts.
NCsoft needs to remind themselves that these players come and go quickly because they get very bored fast,where the older player stays for very long periods.Meaning a more stabil incomme for ncsoft.
Yes of course you can just petition them,but we all know it really doesent work.Im sure NCsoft is aware of the problem,but do they care is the question.To most players it seems they dont,because nothing is done about it.So they have 2 options.To jump on the ebay/account buying train,or simply to retire from the game.
Another issue is the ussual massive invasion of bots/farmers after a free trial period.NCsoft have in the past done a massive clean after those,but this time nothing have happended.The farmers are running free,even if they are petitioned by the players.And again NCsoft shouldent expect the players to be the "police" of this game.The players pay a monthly fee to enjoy a game,that includes a staff of GM's that protect the servers.
I know that NCsoft have had a staff problem recently,not sure if they have fully recovered yet.But i do know that the servers needs some love from whatever staff there is..
In other words.Show us the game have a future NCsoft.
Well. Two points:
First: Players feed the bots
Second: Players feed NCSoft.
We can stop this if everyone work togheter.
So easy.
I dont hate bots. I hate players that feed bots.
If a lot of players suspend thay account for 1 or 2 months probaly NCSoft will liste us.
We pay for service and NCSoft is not doing his job when our game is full of bots.
This is a incredible game but bots are ruin it :(
I can acept bots at a free games but not in a game like Lineage2.
Because earning a few hundred dollars by being part of the collective of people who ruin the game for others is the smart thing to do. Who needs dignity (reputation? Not sure which is the right word)? :p
If u are trying to say that when ud ecide to quit u will leave your 78+ account to rott, then your a big ******
And can we have his account permantly banned since he just said he would sell his account? We dont need those people in our servers.... Hope you get smacked aside the head with the ban hammer mr. i want to sell my account for profit.
It's ridiculous...but, it's a part of all MMO's these days. I can name atleast 3 others who are plagued by the same problem (but with different, maybe less consequences as far as the effect on gameplay is concerned).
yup thats the point since this game is the most dependent on level class and gear for pvp it makes a bigger impact, you cannot out play people who just swipe credit cards to skip all the hard work you need to do to catch up.
Also lets not forget about the credit fraud this leaves people open to. Another bigger problem then just buying accounts. Person buys an account then they get the account ripped back from them and hey how about that all the money is gone now from their credit/checking account and nothing to show for it.
If someone is reported and they have a US home address US IPs and then after the GM checks it they have a Euro Home address Euro IP and Euro email account overnight, a giant RINGING BELL should go off that they are not the same person anymore.
If u are trying to say that when ud ecide to quit u will leave your 78+ account to rott, then your a big ******
Well, I wouldn't go that far.
I worked hard on this character and it has "my name" associated with it. I would never give it over to someone else to do or act as they chose.
If you believe in "handing over" your account so be it. I don't judge people on such things though I realize that it is against the spirit and EULA of the game.
LOL a 70+ pR, u must be a god and know alot about your chars
I have 3 noble characters and about 5bill+ in gear, not to mention a goddard clan hall, so yea the day i god forbid leave the game, id question what is the right thing to do. ^.^
And where did i say i was going to sell my stuff? i just said if u dont your a ******, i myself may be one!
i personally think you guys are way too serious about this game. imo theres nothing wrong if a player who got bored sells his account. Well, it's against the eula but go on and read the rest:
I think most of you had more than one car in your life. The old car gets more and more broken every month (b0t population increases, no support) which takes the fun to drive. It's appearance isn't really up to date anymore, there are more beautiful cars out there which cost as much insurance and taxes (gametime fees) as your old one. And then you find an "idiot" who is willing to buy your old car for almost the same ammount of money (or more) you've spend for it since the day you bought it (including the time you spend to repair it). (leveling)
Some people say a car is only an utensil, not more and not less others love their first car and drive it until it goes boom! xD
So i guess you would park the old one in your garage and keep it forever even if it doesn't drive anymore? lol And don't forget, fuel's running out one day too, so in a "few" years Shell or Aral (NC) will stop selling it.
Congrats you lost 100% because nobody will buy your car anymore :-)
Please don't get me wrong I'm against adena and account selling companies which lvl 100s of toons and sell them for a lot of money. This example only applies to normal players who started at lvl 1 and got bored.
I also believe that some of you are jealous because you invested a lot of time and money to become highlevel and others only have to use daddys american express.
Well, I`m not! It's more fun to scam or pk/pvp those noobs ^_^
And now don't ask me if i'm going to sell my accounts, because I won't. I love my Ewy and my DarkEwy, Hindemith, and my m8es there :D
yea i mean like counterstrike or wow or any other game dostn have any cheats at all right?
Complain all you want, every game has it, eq had it wow has it UO, every single game, and as much as companys say they are doing stuff, they cannot do anything anywhere near what u would like.
LOL a 70+ pR, u must be a god and know alot about your chars
I have 3 noble characters and about 5bill+ in gear, not to mention a goddard clan hall, so yea the day i god forbid leave the game, id question what is the right thing to do. ^.^
And where did i say i was going to sell my stuff? i just said if u dont your a ******, i myself may be one!
7 61+ toons in agrade 3 accounts and my main is 75 which i cannot sub because bought toons keep pking at the raid bosses. Worth over 15 billion in adena and have a Rune clan hall and passed up buying gludio one because i wasnt paying 800 mil for an alt clan clan hall.
I played this game inside and out for 3 years, grats u got three noble toons how many have you leveled yourself? 0 you say thats what I thought, so please shut your mouth about thinking you know what your talking about and I hope HGMSPAM bans you just on principle of saying its a good thing to sell accounts.
@sega having cheats, cheats are ok to play a single player game because the only person your cheating is yourself, but when sega had competitions for Sonic and other games you used a cheat you were disqualified PERIOD!
The old car thing is another bad anaology also because this doesn't break down you dont have keep up maintence you get rid of an old car when the upkeep costs more then its worth and no one is selling their accounts for 10 bucks now are they?
I'm sorry, Ewylona, but your logic is faulty in the comparison.
Instead of having an old car and selling it for more money than you paid originally despite its deteriorating quality it should be more that you have a classic car, and have put months and months of work into restoring it to pristine condition. You've upgraded the engine, given if a fresh coat of paint, and made it just the shiniest thing on the road.
The road, of course, is older. Cracked pavement, unlicensed drivers talking on their cell phones and disconnected from the rest of the world (There's your bots, since you had to have the analogy), and faded lane lines because the maintenance crew has been understaffed and unable to fill the potholes and repaint.
You turn around and sell that beautiful car for thousands of dollars so you can go drive something else, thereby giving the advantage and prestige of owning that car to someone who just happened to have the money for it and hasn't put any amount of work into it at all.
as much as companys say they are doing stuff, they cannot do anything anywhere near what u would like.
Deal with it.
I think there is truth in this.
People complain that game companies aren't doing enough or are even ignoring the issue.
I think more to the point, they just don't have the resources to fully combat this and still remain profitable.
I know people say "just go to X Cata and you will see for yourself". But it seems that there is more that has to be done in order to protect them legally.
Someone gets banned and all of a sudden they start bringing lawsuits.
What's more, I can even see people who should be banned, getting banned and then deciding to see if they can bring a lawsuit.
Too many scummy people out there.
Players just have to do what they can do and develop a thick skin. Or not play online games anymore.
If you actually let it drive you into a "tizzy" you are just going to ruin your life.
I don't think that means you have to be passive but to let it wind you into a knot is just a waste of energy. Becuase, in the end, it's only a game.
The really sad truth of the matter is that no matter how many times we complain it will never really be possible to stop people buying and selling Adena or buying and selling accounts. The logistics of trying to do so are huge and really not feasible for a company to undertake.
Time and again I have seen people who I thought were part of the 'play it as it's meant to be' crowd get frustrated or bored with not being able to compete with the 'here's my plastic how much is that hero' crowd and sadly join them. They in turn lose the respect of the ones they originally teamed up with but by that same token they now feel they can 'compete' with the higher levels and get more involved in the end game.
At the end of the day, the best we can hope for is those that prefer to play the game as it's meant to be and would in no way taint their character by undertaking anything against the EULA stick around. The ones that don't care and prefer to use plastic to achieve their aims will unfortunately be a part of Lineage for as long as it exists :(
yea i knew the car example wasn't very good but it was the first thing that came to my mind ^^
i agree with you but i think my example might fit partially for those who sell their account. they don't like old cars they want servo-assisted steering, air conditioning and 300PS. And not an old an old ford phaeton ^_°
so they get a new one (Lord of the rings online for example)
Well, it's not like you sell the car to get a new one - players usually take the money to do something else altogether with (I don't know anyone personally who sells accounts and then continues to pour the money into L2 - although I've no doubt those people exist).
You could say it's like someone selling off their ancient comic book collection to buy a car. :p
ETA: Sly, the same reason people cheat at any sport - it's the way some people think.
yea i knew the car example wasn't very good but it was the first thing that came to my mind ^^
i agree with you but i think my example might fit partially for those who sell their account. they don't like old cars they want servo-assisted steering, air conditioning and 300PS. And not an old an old ford phaeton ^_°
I think that people who sell their accounts just attribute a different type of value to the account.
As I would never do it (or even give it away) because I don't want my character running into old friends and scamming them or mistreating them etc, people who sell their accounts look at it as "it's just a game".
To them, they are finished and want to move on. Because they can get some cash to recoup costs of subscribing they figure "why not".
It falls to how you assess value.
For instance, when my grandfather died he left quite a few old tools.
And I mean "old". wood handles, shapes that you don't find anymore... that type of thing.
My Uncle decided to sell all of his old stuff because my Uncle is sort of a "Frasier" type character and really has no use for any of these tools. So he put them in the garage for part of a Tag sale.
However, to me, these were not only important rememberences of my Grandfather, they were also very unique items that you could not find anywhere.
So I told my Uncle I was taking them and "just did".
They held great sentimental and "artistic" (for lack of a better word) value to me.
If its only a game why do people spend thousands of dollars just to say they can beat other people?
The same reason people spend 50k on a car when 20k will get you the same thing(just less shiny, and in this world less shiny means you suck).
Ego.
All this game is anymore is a competition for the biggest [censored].
IE: Hero Shout~ LOL BSOE; [censored]. What the hell do you expect people to do when they're grinding and 3 heroes with stacked buffs roll up? bend over and take it?
But the shout, means they have a bigger [censored]. So they do it.
But you know when Private servers were Wiped. All those people who paid 1k~ to have edited stats, +20 weapons & +10 armor/jewels. Then the servers shut down. Makes me fuzzy inside.
Then they go to official servers and spend the same if not more to get a Botted char and ebay gear. It doesn't matter where they go, they will still do it. People will still sell them, because people will still buy them. It may be immoral but they have the right idea, They spent their time playing this game why not get something from it? Personally I don't agree with it, but I see where they're coming from.
But really, what is banning that account gonna do? if they spent upwards of 500$ for that, why wouldn't they just do it again? They're spending Real life cash on a virtual item. Obviously they don't care. (but I say ban'em anyway, cause it's Funneh.)
No, I won't do it. When I quit my Name goes with me.
Every time we sign in we click 'Agree' to the EULA.
Therefore, everyone who transfers accounts, bots, ebays and otherwise cheats is a Liar. They said they 'Agree' and they broke their word.
All their excuses are just justifications for their cheating. They explain it away to themselves, honest people see right through the excuses.
People who break the EULA have no Honor. They are liars, they are cheaters, they delude themselves about the kind of people they really are.
Lineage2 is truely about good versus evil...not defined in game terms like dark elves versus light elves...but definded by the real people playing. Those who cheat are the bad people. Those who play honestly are the ones with Honor, and are the Good.
Just like in the 'real world' it is a fight between good and evil, and there are usually a lot more bad people than good people. So all of you reading this, if you are honorable, fight the the good fight and realize it will be a long one. If you have erred and been disnonorable...change. What you are in Lineage2 is what you really are, your actions reflect your soul.
Every time we sign in we click 'Agree' to the EULA.
Therefore, everyone who transfers accounts, bots, ebays and otherwise cheats is a Liar. They said they 'Agree' and they broke their word.
All their excuses are just justifications for their cheating. They explain it away to themselves, honest people see right through the excuses.
People who break the EULA have no Honor. They are liars, they are cheaters, they delude themselves about the kind of people they really are.
Lineage2 is truely about good versus evil...not defined in game terms like dark elves versus light elves...but definded by the real people playing. Those who cheat are the bad people. Those who play honestly are the ones with Honor, and are the Good.
Just like in the 'real world' it is a fight between good and evil, and there are usually a lot more bad people than good people. So all of you reading this, if you are honorable, fight the the good fight and realize it will be a long one. If you have erred and been disnonorable...change. What you are in Lineage2 is what you really are, your actions reflect your soul.
sorry man .... but
ROFL!!!! what's wrong with you?
Turn off your comp and enjoy the summer or take a l2 break ^_°
But really, what is banning that account gonna do? if they spent upwards of 500$ for that, why wouldn't they just do it again? They're spending Real life cash on a virtual item. Obviously they don't care. (but I say ban'em anyway, cause it's Funneh.)
Eventually they will stop. Could you imagine having 3+ accounts banned within a month. Thats like $1500+ for like 2 weeks of play (since it would take time to buy / transfer the account info / etc.).
hey guys i would be more specific myself but i dont want the mods to lock this thread before spam responds so please leave the specifics out till spam tell us how to help them help us.
Well, if they can ban ppl with chat logs, they can also check your chat log and tadaa, sudden change from Portuguese to Russian in your everyday speak is a nice hint that the toon has changed hands. Couple that with IP checks and checking where the monthly fee comes from(the payment changing from NA to Russia for example) could all be used.
hey guys i would be more specific myself but i dont want the mods to lock this thread before spam responds so please leave the specifics out till spam tell us how to help them help us.
Spam is going to tell us what he has always told us:
Continually report any behavior that we feel breaks the EULA. That they check every one and that they have to follow certain "strict" methods before they do any bans.
There isn't going to be a "oh wait... you know... if you would do 'this' then that would help a ton" type post.
And besides, I think they have been doing more bannings in the last few months then they did in the first year as the servers are many times "light" status.
I hate to say this here but I've been thinking this for some time now. The silly answers by 1st tier GMs to petitions leads me to believe that the 1st tier are outsourced. If so it's possible that the people running the 1st tier GM service could also be running the bot service. If this is true then NCNA better check bot reports at 1st tier and see how many actually got forwarded to 2nd level for investigation. I would think each time a petition is made some kind of counter goes up for statistical purposes. Just my 2 red cents.
LOL a 70+ pR, u must be a god and know alot about your chars
I have 3 noble characters and about 5bill+ in gear, not to mention a goddard clan hall, so yea the day i god forbid leave the game, id question what is the right thing to do. ^.^
And where did i say i was going to sell my stuff? i just said if u dont your a ******, i myself may be one!
7 61+ toons in agrade 3 accounts and my main is 75 which i cannot sub because bought toons keep pking at the raid bosses. Worth over 15 billion in adena and have a Rune clan hall and passed up buying gludio one because i wasnt paying 800 mil for an alt clan clan hall.
I played this game inside and out for 3 years, grats u got three noble toons how many have you leveled yourself? 0 you say thats what I thought, so please shut your mouth about thinking you know what your talking about and I hope HGMSPAM bans you just on principle of saying its a good thing to sell accounts.
@sega having cheats, cheats are ok to play a single player game because the only person your cheating is yourself, but when sega had competitions for Sonic and other games you used a cheat you were disqualified PERIOD!
The old car thing is another bad anaology also because this doesn't break down you dont have keep up maintence you get rid of an old car when the upkeep costs more then its worth and no one is selling their accounts for 10 bucks now are they?
i was for the first legit Noble spellsinger on kain and was hero for the first 4-5 months i think? so suck me :>, was 1 more buy he got banned soon after he got hero for not so legit things
Looks like you proved me right, you are a nub if u cant even get baium done lol
Well, if they can ban ppl with chat logs, they can also check your chat log and tadaa, sudden change from Portuguese to Russian in your everyday speak is a nice hint that the toon has changed hands. Couple that with IP checks and checking where the monthly fee comes from(the payment changing from NA to Russia for example) could all be used.
See that wont work, i sometimes pay my friends accounts with my credit card , ingame friends, because they are short on cash, never used their accounts but ive paid for them.
I know people who know more than 1 language who can speak many, and depends on clan they join on what they speak but yes obviously they cant speak english and were fluent then it is obvious.
People do change IP address cos they MOVE, also change names, such as chinese names etc when u move change blah blah but yea its impossible for them to do [censored]
not to mention why would they ban 1000 accounts at $15 per account a month.... when only about 10-15 of u are complaining.
There is such a gap between a 76 vs an 80 as a 40 vs a 75, hero is just stupid…..someone should be shot……..I came to the realization I will never be a hero… then I decided I’ll never be 80
Their comes a point where you go what the hell I’ve played for 3 + years and here is someone who payed $2000 and is kicking ....... **** with $2000 I can go to spain…. I know a guy on my server who says he has 10,000 dollars in his account (80/79 +7 all skills, +16 duels, boss yada) My car is worth $1000 bucks a 1998 kia I cant compete with that…..
It’s a society issue l2 is not going to solve! those who have money spend it the rest of us just grind away.
LOL a 70+ pR, u must be a god and know alot about your chars
I have 3 noble characters and about 5bill+ in gear, not to mention a goddard clan hall, so yea the day i god forbid leave the game, id question what is the right thing to do. ^.^
And where did i say i was going to sell my stuff? i just said if u dont your a ******, i myself may be one!
7 61+ toons in agrade 3 accounts and my main is 75 which i cannot sub because bought toons keep pking at the raid bosses. Worth over 15 billion in adena and have a Rune clan hall and passed up buying gludio one because i wasnt paying 800 mil for an alt clan clan hall.
I played this game inside and out for 3 years, grats u got three noble toons how many have you leveled yourself? 0 you say thats what I thought, so please shut your mouth about thinking you know what your talking about and I hope HGMSPAM bans you just on principle of saying its a good thing to sell accounts.
@sega having cheats, cheats are ok to play a single player game because the only person your cheating is yourself, but when sega had competitions for Sonic and other games you used a cheat you were disqualified PERIOD!
The old car thing is another bad anaology also because this doesn't break down you dont have keep up maintence you get rid of an old car when the upkeep costs more then its worth and no one is selling their accounts for 10 bucks now are they?
i was for the first legit Noble spellsinger on kain and was hero for the first 4-5 months i think? so suck me :>, was 1 more buy he got banned soon after he got hero for not so legit things
Looks like you proved me right, you are a nub if u cant even get baium done lol
learn to get those knee pads out!
Subclass takes no skill what so ever thats been beaten to death. All it involves is luck and a lot of free time on your hands i do not have the free time to sit around waiting 24/7 for a **** raid to spawn so if i get i get it if dont oh well thats how it goes NCSoft was stupid to put such a dead ending quest into the game, Subclasses help keep casual players in the game not hardcore gamers but they make the quest for hardcore gamers not casual gamers go figure.
And legit and kain in the same sentence is a good one lol
But i dont really care what you think about me because to be honest i have accomplished more then you could ever dream in this game but this is about people who are cheating and exactly what needs to be reported to get them banned.
This is not like botting when its right out there and gms can see it eventually, there has to be some course of action NCSoft can do to stop the blantant buying and selling of accounts that honestly is killing the game quicker then farmers ever could.
There is such a gap between a 76 vs an 80 as a 40 vs a 75, hero is just stupid…..someone should be shot……..I came to the realization I will never be a hero… then I decided I’ll never be 80
Their comes a point where you go what the hell I’ve played for 3 + years and here is someone who payed $2000 and is kicking my *****....... **** with $2000 I can go to spain…. I know a guy on my server who says he has 10,000 dollars in his account (80/79 +7 all skills, +16 duels, boss yada) My car is worth $1000 bucks a 1998 kia I cant compete with that…..
It’s a society issue l2 is not going to solve! those who have money spend it the rest of us just grind away.
I play for my addiction now
Whos fault is it if you decided you are not going to go all the way to 80 and be hero, you..
You blame a guy who buys an account for your lack of attention to this game?. The fact is if the account sold or played by the original guy is still only 1 account in the game, nothing has changed but the owner. So if you give up because you lose all the time maybe you are just bad or not playing the game right, stop blaming others and change something about how you play or quit.
Dont get me wrong I know selling accounts is against the EULA but really some of you really got your panties in a wad over some really stupid stuff. The game has been like this from the start and will always be like this, all games are. If you are goign to sit around all reporting everything you see and making posts like this then you need to go outside and give up on games all together. In every game there is always someone trying to cheat the system, in here or in RL. Find your nitch here and live with it cuz nothing is gonna drastically change and the sooner you can get used to that idea the more fun you will have.
See that wont work, i sometimes pay my friends accounts with my credit card , ingame friends, because they are short on cash, never used their accounts but ive paid for them.
I know people who know more than 1 language who can speak many, and depends on clan they join on what they speak but yes obviously they cant speak english and were fluent then it is obvious.
People do change IP address cos they MOVE, also change names, such as chinese names etc when u move change blah blah but yea its impossible for them to do [censored]
not to mention why would they ban 1000 accounts at $15 per account a month.... when only about 10-15 of u are complaining.
You pay _sometimes_ for their accs. Now then, if the billing has totally shifted, you can either assume they've moved or sold the acc.
I personally speak 3 languages fluently, but it doesnt change the language I use the most. It also doesnt change the fact that I speak those languages and dont just suddenly start speaking another, that I've never used before.
Yea, ppl do move. But if you wanna say that all of them suddenly moved, then there's a nice influx of foreigners moving to Russia ;)
Yea, why would they ban anything, they havent banned the bots either :) I wasnt ranting about banning, I just suggested a few ways of proving it.
Wait a minute, what if I give my account to my cousin who lives in the US, I am not selling my account, I just gave the password to my cousin; completely different IPs, different payment origin, will this be breakage of EULA? What if my favorite in game friend who is from France decides to cut off the costs of the 5-6 accounts he has and gives me one of them, I will not be speaking french, thats for sure :p , is this breaking the EULA also? I will not have bought anything...
My point is that you cannot track these cases this way, what you can do is follow a report made by a user, investigate the above things (changes in payment, IP, language), maybe ask some questions that only the original user would now and then ban. There was a guy yesterday with title advertising that he was selling his BD, Slycutter said that there was a guy bragging he bought his char... These are the ones that should get banned that instant, firstly because they admit it, secondly because they advertise it...
Wait a minute, what if I give my account to my cousin who lives in the US, I am not selling my account, I just gave the password to my cousin; completely different IPs, different payment origin, will this be breakage of EULA? What if my favorite in game friend who is from France decides to cut off the costs of the 5-6 accounts he has and gives me one of them, I will not be speaking french, thats for sure :p , is this breaking the EULA also? I will not have bought anything...
My point is that you cannot track these cases this way, what you can do is follow a report made by a user, investigate the above things (changes in payment, IP, language), maybe ask some questions that only the original user would now and then ban. There was a guy yesterday with title advertising that he was selling his BD, Slycutter said that there was a guy bragging he bought his char... These are the ones that should get banned that instant, firstly because they admit it, secondly because they advertise it...
If you do this you are breaking the EULA and your accont should be banned.
Let me break it down for you guys.
L2 is known throughout the gaming community to be the counterstrike of MMO's. It has the reputation that cheating is allowed, encouraged, and even required. L2 is talked about just like counterstrike used to be, as a kiddie game with nothing but a bunch of cheats.
NCSoft's refusal to police the game from day 1 and enforce it's own rules has ruined the reputation of L2, and for me has ruined the reputation of NCSoft itself. I personally will never play another NCSoft game. Had they taken action from day 1, and set the standard that cheating would be dealt with swiftly and harshly, then we would not be where we are today. The game might actually be mostly real players fighting for control of castles and PvPing to prove who is top dog. Instead, it's just about who configures their 3rd party proggie the best, and/or has the most money to spend on powerleveling, adena, and new FOTM overpowered accounts.
Hate to say it,but i agree.Once i finally give up against all this $$$,i will most likely never play an NCsoft game again.Unless they turn around and start doing something..
Im aware there is only so much they can do,but thats better than the current situation at least ><...
In every game there is always someone trying to cheat the system, in here or in RL. Find your nitch here and live with it cuz nothing is gonna drastically change and the sooner you can get used to that idea the more fun you will have.
QFT. Some things you have no control over, you'll be happier accepting that and working around it. Both here and in IRL.
And I say that seriously considering what you'd need to do to BAN an account for being sold/given away/whatever. That's a slippery slope.
So what the IP changes? My IP just changed for the first time in 2 years, should I get banned?
I change my credit card to my husbands, do I get banned? How about if my IP changes AND my billing changes, is that a good enough reason for a ban? Or does it have to be an IP change, billing change, and I speak in another language in game. That's a ban? Come on, relax.
Wait a minute, what if I give my account to my cousin who lives in the US, I am not selling my account, I just gave the password to my cousin; completely different IPs, different payment origin, will this be breakage of EULA? What if my favorite in game friend who is from France decides to cut off the costs of the 5-6 accounts he has and gives me one of them, I will not be speaking french, thats for sure :p , is this breaking the EULA also? I will not have bought anything...
Yes, all of those would be breaking of the EULA, and bannable. Even if you would delete all characters before giving the account away.
Ellie i see what your getting at but there has to be something we can do because if the trend continues people get sick of fighting bought accounts that never earned their exp and dont care about dying when legit players earn their xp and everytime they die it sets them back.
I hate leveling at 75 because i wind up getting 2% which is like an hour's of xp by some bought account or botter and if i kill them they just turn walker on for the night :(
There is nothing we can do about accounts being sold unless they admit to it in game. Then I would say SS it and send it in that is all we can do if that are dumb enough to admit it in game they deserve to be banned. Admitting on a forum is harder to prove caues I think everyone here knows how easy it is to photoshop SS's.
I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that NC only went after the adena sellers and not the buyers. That in itself should change also seeing as you are only targeting the symptoms and not the problems. At this point I do not think the game would survive the cleaning that is needed. Could the community survive yes but how long would people play when they would be required to farm for there own stuff. Or would there even be enough accounts remaining to keep the game alive.
As it stands now alot of people play because of friends and habit but what if alot of friends leave because the populations are drasticly redused? I would like nothing more then to have a Lineage pure and fun and even but that is nothing more then a pipe dream. I play this game to relax and have fun with a few friends and my GF after that is gone so am I. In all honesty it is just a few friends keeping me here and some aspects of the game that I like.
Ellie i see what your getting at but there has to be something we can do because if the trend continues people get sick of fighting bought accounts that never earned their exp and dont care about dying when legit players earn their xp and everytime they die it sets them back.
I hate leveling at 75 because i wind up getting 2% which is like an hour's of xp by some bought account or botter and if i kill them they just turn walker on for the night :(
this is how some people deal with the hardcoreness of the 7x grind. a lot of people cannot sit there for hours on end to gain lost exp. its by no means ethical or legal, but thats what some folks will resort to to play the end game.
ive said it before and i will say it again (knowing it will be flamed and ignored and eventually deleted)
IF THE GAME WASNT SO HARDCORE AT 7X+ THERE WOULD BE LESS REASON TO BOT.
in an already dwindling population of gamers, do we really want LESS high level players? keep in mind that banning all the bots means 75% or more of the high levels go byebye and the casual legit players that dont get to play 9 hours a day are left to their own devices as the kings of nowhere.
bottom line: what would you rather? botinfested cheating scum at high end, or 14 yer old masochistic braindead basementdwellers at high level? both are equally tardsational and ******istic.
in an already dwindling population of gamers, do we really want LESS high level players? keep in mind that banning all the bots means 75% or more of the high levels go byebye
Yes, if they cheated, ban them. Ban them with extreme prejudice. To those cheaters I say, Bon voyage, arrivederci, adios, hasta, c ya, later gator, kick rocks, take a flying leap, get lost, get ghost, eat dust, go choke on a sword, take a long walk off of a short pier, sayonara, buh-BYE, you ain't gotta go home, but you gotta get the hell outta here!, etc., etc., etc. I don't care what level they are, or their perceived impact on the game. By right, they shouldn't be in a position to impact the game at all, if they were adhering to the rules.
LOL. I would pay $25 a month to get rid of the scum in this game. Do you realize how many more PEOPLE would play if they would clean everything up. Do you realize how many legit players have already quit because of the cheaters? Sure you loose money on the scum, but you gain money on the legit players that are now willing to show the game off to their friends. Most people are probably embarassed to show this game off to anyone because of the blatant cheating that you see everywhere. Who wants to play a game where everyone cheats?
LOL. I would pay $25 a month to get rid of the scum in this game. Do you realize how many more PEOPLE would play if they would clean everything up. Do you realize how many legit players have already quit because of the cheaters? Sure you loose money on the scum, but you gain money on the legit players that are now willing to show the game off to their friends. Most people are probably embarassed to show this game off to anyone because of the blatant cheating that you see everywhere. Who wants to play a game where everyone cheats?
QFT!!!!
I said it 3 yrs ago.. now it's way to late.
IF the game is clean, and competitive then they are more likely to keep the long term players, who have worked their [censored] off for a long time to establish their position.
Instead, you get some ******* who buys a toon, buys a few hundred mil to equip, plays for 2 months and then quits.
2 types of players.. one will keep the game going indefinitely, the other will not. The proof is in the pudding now, just take a look around next time you log in.
15 a month is 15 a month whether it's 3 consecutive years or for 2 months then quit, then another person 2 months and quit, etc.
Until the people who play for 2 months then quit are not replaced fast enough.. and the people who play for 3 yrs get sick of the cheating and leave forever.
Can anyone name me a game out there that is PvP and is completley clean?
If there is one I've never heard mention of it.
This doesn't mean that you should give up on trying. The whole, "its impossible to stop them, so just live with it" attitude is how this game got to be as bad as it is.
The best way to clean this game up is to start with bots. Some are soooooo easy to spot. They all look like syncronized swimmers.
Reducing bots means that there will be less adena to sell to players. Less adena means the prices go up. Prices going up means less players can afford it. Less players affording it means Less adena is sold. This cuts into profits of Adena companies. Less profits means less companies. Less companies means less bots. The same goes for accounts being sold.
Can anyone name me a game out there that is PvP and is completley clean?
If there is one I've never heard mention of it.
So that's a good reason not to make any effort whatsoever in making this one clean?
I didn't say that, nor did I say one should not try. The question can be taken exactly at face value. I am not aware of any pvp game that is considered clean.
I am wondering if there are games where they are clean which would mean that NC would have indeed dropped the ball. If there aren't any then it could very well mean that "no one" is making an effort (or the correct effort, and if so "why") or that it just isn't possible no matter what one does.
No one is asking for a game totally clean but sovrath they dont even make an effort lately to keep this place clean.
Oh, I don't think that's entirely fair. It has been very clear that many of our servers are now light after an obvious banning. Not only that but there have been a few updates that have left all servers light and only franz normal.
The difference in server population is extremely noticable after various updates.
Of course, that doesn't explain why they are light. That seems to mean that they ban enough people to make them light and that means that there isn't enough left over population to even bring it to normal (except for Franz and Bartz... sometimes Teon.
The amount of bannings seems to be "more" than earlier in the game's history.
The question is "Is it too little too late" or "has the damage been done"?
MrTeedOff:
The best way to clean this game up is to start with bots. Some are soooooo easy to spot. They all look like syncronized swimmers.
But what players are not remembering is that the gm's do know this. Spam has said (I believe it was Spam) that he keeps a notebook next to his computer and when he sees a bot train he writes it down.
So ok, the Head GM knows this. So the answer is, why doesn't the ban hammer come down immediately?
Well, because of a few things. It seems that they have to go through a variety of procedures before they can actually ban. This very well might be for legal reasons. It also might imply that it is easier time wise to make lists of the accounts and then ban all in one fell swoop.
I also wonder how much it would cost them to actually have one person on each server just patrol it? or do they rely entirely on automated methods?
Could they hire someone (internship?) to patrol each of the servers? It would have to be an entry level job or an internship in order to make it cost effective. And in the end do they even have enough in their payroll budget to do that?
There is nothing more that players can do except to report. The rest lies with NC.
I also think part of the problem is that they are running with a light staff. It certainly seems that way.
Part of the problem for this is that they are a publicly traded company and they have to be "so profitable" each quarter. If they don't do everything it takes to bring back an acceptable return, the stockholders can actually take them to court. So, they do things like lay people off and cut down the Jiffy Pop in the kitchen.
The problem is that the GMs spend hrs of back end research doing what a player can do in 1 min of frond end research. I am not saying that they dont ban people. I know for a fact that they do. Just think that they dont use the tools they have to the best of their ability. I cant tell you how many times I have spent hours researching a data issue on the back end, and then find out that it would have taken me 10 min on the front end.
If I were NCSoft, I would be sueing the crap out of the creator of [censored]. The digital millenium copyright act gives them the right to do so. DMCA (http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf)
The light, normal, moderate thing is not necessarily a reflection of the population on the server comparing say this month to last month. Nor is it a reflection of the amount of cheating being done on a server.
We have in the past had noticeable mass bannings. But we haven't had one in quite some time... actually for Gustin, we had 3 or 4 close together at the beginning of C5.. but haven't had anything noticeable since.
The bottom line. L2 has a reputation as a cheaters game.. much the same as Counterstrike was considered in the FPS world.
It's not that there are a few cheaters who sneak through the cracks in L2, it's more like it is creeping dangerously close to just being the norm.
Just think that they dont use the tools they have to the best of their ability. I cant tell you how many times I have spent hours researching a data issue on the back end, and then find out that it would have taken me 10 min on the front end.
Well you might be right about that. by back end are you saying automated methods? Or seeing trends in account behavior?
Becuase I bet that is a huge part of it. (see my edit in my post regarding hiring an intern to patrol servers)
BigHands:
The bottom line. L2 has a reputation as a cheaters game.. much the same as Counterstrike was considered in the FPS world.
It's not that there are a few cheaters who sneak through the cracks in L2, it's more like it is creeping dangerously close to just being the norm.
Well, because of a few things. It seems that they have to go through a variety of procedures before they can actually ban.
If they do then they need to simplify the procedure. Create programs that do some research for them. Create programs the fill in paper work for them. In my field of work, I often times have to modify data on the back end of our database. I have alot of research I have to do before I make a change. When I come across something that happens fairly often, I will create a program / script to do research for me.
This very well might be for legal reasons.
NC has the right to refuse service to anyone they feel like for any reason they feel like.
It also might imply that it is easier time wise to make lists of the accounts and then ban all in one fell swoop.
Sure, once a week should be good. Once every 3 months is not enough.
Just think that they dont use the tools they have to the best of their ability. I cant tell you how many times I have spent hours researching a data issue on the back end, and then find out that it would have taken me 10 min on the front end.
Well you might be right about that. by back end are you saying automated methods? Or seeing trends in account behavior?
Becuase I bet that is a huge part of it. (see my edit in my post regarding hiring an intern to patrol servers)
By back end, I mean looking through logs and other data that appears in a "raw" format rather than the "completed" format you would see on the front end (your L2 client).
I think that the intern idea would be great. They would just log in as a normal player (no gm rights) walk around and spot bots. Maybe make a run through each catacomb once a day. These findings would then be leads for the GMs to take a look on the front end. If they are convinced the players are botting then make a few checks on the back end. If it all points to botting then BAN HAMMER++. Obviously this will be alot of work for the GMs at the beginning, but after they weed out alot of the bots then it will become easier and easier.
The question is "Is it too little too late" or "has the damage been done"?
I just wanted to give an answer to this question.
Yes damage has been done. If you think about it, NOW is the best timing to ban anyone who bots. There is a new race being implemented soon. This means that you will see new players joining the game. You will also see some of the older players that have quit coming back. IF they spend the time to clean up the servers and really promote this next expansion, we might see a new beginning to this game.
once asked one of these people how long it takes them to get back to 78 after a banning they told me 5 weeks tops. It was an english speaking operator. So to make bannings effecting it has to be monthly not quarterly or less because if it is monthly then they will lose too much time releveling new toons every month to beat the timing of the bannings IE loss is greater then profit you go broke.
Good way to stop the PMs on the boards is 2 simple things, trial accounts cannot send PM's and you need 10 or more posts before you can send PM's through boards.
They are not going to spend the time to do either of those over and over again hence they pms at least the offical l2 boards cease.
Why are some these things so difficult to think of ? I could implement that on any board in less then 10 minutes.
Good way to stop the PMs on the boards is 2 simple things, trial accounts cannot send PM's and you need 10 or more posts before you can send PM's through boards.
They are not going to spend the time to do either of those over and over again hence they pms at least the offical l2 boards cease.
Why are some these things so difficult to think of ? I could implement that on any board in less then 10 minutes.
Or add a code that you have to type in before sending a pm. This would stop mass automated pming.
But that's annoying as hell, god I hate those codes. We just did that at my job for some inconceivable reason as well, ticked a lot of people off.
How many pms do you send on these boards? If you send more than 10, you should probably be using something like msn messenger. Honestly, I would opt for the slight inconvenience to avoid adena seller spam.
Not many, but seeing that I've been on these boards since the beginning of time, and before the first board wipe, and these are the first adena pm's in all that time... well. I'd rather not see those awful security boxes.
Not many, but seeing that I've been on these boards since the beginning of time, and before the first board wipe, and these are the first adena pm's in all that time... well. I'd rather not see those awful security boxes.
We regged the same day. They only take like 2 sec to fill in and help prevent automated messages. You can't seriously be in such a rush that 2 sec isnt worth the spam prevention.
I been playing for 3 years so has my wife between us we have a Noble 76/76 and 2 77’s How should I change my play style? To keep up with a guy who pays +$2000 dollars and has played for 1 day and is beating me at the game?
If a person is running around with
80/79
+16S weap
Zaken Earring
Ant Ring
Core
Orfen
Baium
And I have never seen this person in 3 years of play??? Till boom he is here???
someday someone will draw a line in the sand............
I think there is only one person at NCsoft who has the balls that’s Lord British aka Richard Garriott or a Guy named Q from M59. They said this in a panel way back.
Want to stop farmers easy, hire a person give them a $5000 a month budget. Go look to buy gold or accounts buy it and ban every account that person owns. Track large money transfers to and from that account and ban those accounts also.
You hit IGE this way and we would see the folks who buy and sell acounts dry up also no lewt gear for their accounts....
No I'm not in a rush, but the annoyance factor for me is a huge consideration. Ever fill out those security boxes and get the code wrong, even once? Not worth the irritating factor, IMO. But that's just me. Easier to delete spam, lord knows I do it daily on my email accounts at home and work.
I have to say that I am quite enjoying reading this thread. A lot of good things come up in here, and we're talking about things that need to be discussed.
I have to say that I am quite enjoying reading this thread. A lot of good things come up in here, and we're talking about things that need to be discussed.
after 120 posts, threads get too large and get locked.
lol dont jinx it spudnik this is a great thread and since most NCSoft are ghosts around here most likely this will be going on awhile anytime a thread is made.
So please leave this open for HGMSpam to tell the community what we can do to get rid of these people who obviously are not here to play L2 but instead Counterstrike.
Thanks in advance :)
That's like waiting for the great pumpkin to appear.
They can only do what they can do... And if Spam did post chances are it would be to say. Yeah i know, and lock the thread.
...it would show us that there is actually someone alive reading these things? Or at least pretending to.
It has gotten so far out of hand that I'd like to say it's the worst state yet. At least on Hinde it has never been as bad as it is now and there is not a single life-sign from NC whatsoever. It's just sad.
People chatting about their EULA breaking actions in open chat/shout, automaton groups everywhere, in S grade even... It's really making me feel less like playing more and more, because it's hard to enjoy yourself in an enviroment like this.
I been playing for 3 years so has my wife between us we have a Noble 76/76 and 2 77’s How should I change my play style? To keep up with a guy who pays +$2000 dollars and has played for 1 day and is beating me at the game?
If a person is running around with
80/79
+16S weap
Zaken Earring
Ant Ring
Core
Orfen
Baium
And I have never seen this person in 3 years of play??? Till boom he is here???
someday someone will draw a line in the sand............
I think there is only one person at NCsoft who has the balls that’s Lord British aka Richard Garriott or a Guy named Q from M59. They said this in a panel way back.
Want to stop farmers easy, hire a person give them a $5000 a month budget. Go look to buy gold or accounts buy it and ban every account that person owns. Track large money transfers to and from that account and ban those accounts also.
You hit IGE this way and we would see the folks who buy and sell acounts dry up also no lewt gear for their accounts....
But who am I =o) counting the days to Tabula Rasa
What you suggested is againest the law to invade the privacy and setting up people like that, 1995 i think bill clinton put that in if im right.
Ps if u been playing that long and only 77 u fail lol
All official news flows through the CM and only the CM.
Let me give you an example: A storm blows into the area and knocks over a massive tree that lands and smashes the database server. Because of the companies job structure even thou at present a hand full of people are on hand that could inform the players. They wait till the CM comes into work because that is their duties so they can post about what happened.
A good way to make it not profitable for the undesirable elments in the game is to have bannings once a month as suggested preveiously (sp). Then either increase the game cost or make it where you need to purchase the game plus an additional month of game time. That way it costs more to replace each account.
They could also stop the ease at being able to obtain trial accounts or only do them through magezines with demo disks. I would also make the trial accounts not able to buy or sell to another toon, only trade with npc's. Keep it like this till they purchase additional game time either a month or 2. Though I for one know that this would never be done.
I can also tell you without a doubt that Spam and his group are reading this thread. He's remaining quiet likely to see where it goes.
As I mentioned before, it brings up a lot of good points and issues, and I believe (and this is just my opinion) that he wants to see what we have to say without interrupting just yet.
Too optimistic imo. This thread will soon turn to a repetitive flame fest and then get locked and forgotten. Like every thread that is even remotely close to the point does.
The amount of players selling accounts, buying adena, bots (No way, bots IN Lineage 2?) hasnt changed in THREE YEARS.
How can there be this much discussion lol. They will "Do what they can", you can report ingame, but thats it.
Cheats in every game... even in RL... but lets not get into that ;) Lets just compare games?
In WoW: You can get powerlvled to 70, powerlvl your honor to 100k or w/e you want, powerlvl your pvps, get farmers to farm all the best epic bosses ( They can run their own 20/40 man instances with EASE.)
It's because some kiddies believe that the GMS are responsible for it. That these people are never banned... despite the fact that there have been more banned accounts then there are accounts currently active (over 100,000). The only problem is how little it takes to log back in with new accounts and how little it takes to bot up.
you should be required to use SSN to make account, so you cant come back if u are banned, might stop account selling if you sell to someone that would get you banned
The biggest problem I see is not being accountable as a person.. Banning is not helpful if anyone who got banned on (a) previous account(s) is still able to re-register on a new account.
Some could argue that accounts paid by Credit Cards only could be a solution. That would however mean the end of game-cards a step I expect will not be taken by any MMORPG-publiser.
The MMORPG-industry and the law of the various countries the game is sold in should have methods in place to permanently prevent people from repeating the same crime.
That being written down there are study groups (at least I know within my country) discussing which future steps could / should be taken on both online-games and the local law when it comes to in-game assets.
Ideally this would at some point become a global set of rules on how on-line games fit in today's world (economically and law-wise).
The biggest problem I see is not being accountable as a person.. Banning is not helpful if anyone who got banned on (a) previous account(s) is still able to re-register on a new account.
Some could argue that accounts paid by Credit Cards only could be a solution. That would however mean the end of game-cards a step I expect will not be taken by any MMORPG-publiser.
The MMORPG-industry and the law of the various countries the game is sold in should have methods in place to permanently prevent people from repeating the same crime.
That being written down there are study groups (at least I know within my country) discussing which future steps could / should be taken on both online-games and the local law when it comes to in-game assets.
Ideally this would at some point become a global set of rules on how on-line games fit in today's world (economically and law-wise).
I agree, these games are all about the money. Limiting it to just credit cards wont stop the problem entirely, and its just not realistic.
The big companies are not going to willingly sacrifice their profits just to eliminate the growing chinese farmer problems on well.... every MMO that can make money.
The worst part is the farmers pay... so its like win/win for the big guys. Don't expect a change soon!
If i ran ncsoft and lineage2, i would not be banning them, they fund a good 50% of their profits im sure.
This is why your not running it..If they left the farmers to do what they wanted,whit out banning them...Pretty soon there wont be any game left..Thats a fact !!
If i ran ncsoft and lineage2, i would not be banning them, they fund a good 50% of their profits im sure.
This is why your not running it..If they left the farmers to do what they wanted,whit out banning them...Pretty soon there wont be any game left..Thats a fact !!
U mean they do something different now? As far as i see, they are doing exactly what i would do.
Ban every 4-5 months, make them make new chars people get less ****** for 2-3 weeks and grow used to it again.
I been playing for 3 years so has my wife between us we have a Noble 76/76 and 2 77’s How should I change my play style? To keep up with a guy who pays +$2000 dollars and has played for 1 day and is beating me at the game?
If a person is running around with
80/79
+16S weap
Zaken Earring
Ant Ring
Core
Orfen
Baium
And I have never seen this person in 3 years of play??? Till boom he is here???
someday someone will draw a line in the sand............
I think there is only one person at NCsoft who has the balls that’s Lord British aka Richard Garriott or a Guy named Q from M59. They said this in a panel way back.
Want to stop farmers easy, hire a person give them a $5000 a month budget. Go look to buy gold or accounts buy it and ban every account that person owns. Track large money transfers to and from that account and ban those accounts also.
You hit IGE this way and we would see the folks who buy and sell acounts dry up also no lewt gear for their accounts....
But who am I =o) counting the days to Tabula Rasa
What you suggested is againest the law to invade the privacy and setting up people like that, 1995 i think bill clinton put that in if im right.
Your not invading anyones privacy, and it would only be setting someone up if you asked them to sell you the adena. If they offer to sell it via a web site then they are not being setup.
Btw i wonder how many would be able to retrieve their accounts should they reset the passwords,like they had to do 1 time :p
do u know how many REAL players lost their accts when that happened? half my old clan went POOF
then they must have been ******s, you could guess the birthdate lol, cos it didnt have the restrictions like now so people sat there for 4-5 hours till finally they hit it, yes 1 day at a time, 1 month at a time 1 year at a time. Generally most knew the range like 1975-1988.
I been playing for 3 years so has my wife between us we have a Noble 76/76 and 2 77’s How should I change my play style? To keep up with a guy who pays +$2000 dollars and has played for 1 day and is beating me at the game?
If a person is running around with
80/79
+16S weap
Zaken Earring
Ant Ring
Core
Orfen
Baium
And I have never seen this person in 3 years of play??? Till boom he is here???
someday someone will draw a line in the sand............
I think there is only one person at NCsoft who has the balls that’s Lord British aka Richard Garriott or a Guy named Q from M59. They said this in a panel way back.
Want to stop farmers easy, hire a person give them a $5000 a month budget. Go look to buy gold or accounts buy it and ban every account that person owns. Track large money transfers to and from that account and ban those accounts also.
You hit IGE this way and we would see the folks who buy and sell acounts dry up also no lewt gear for their accounts....
But who am I =o) counting the days to Tabula Rasa
What you suggested is againest the law to invade the privacy and setting up people like that, 1995 i think bill clinton put that in if im right.
Your not invading anyones privacy, and it would only be setting someone up if you asked them to sell you the adena. If they offer to sell it via a web site then they are not being setup.
sorry there are laws againest that.
BUT, there is not laws againest attempting to shut down the websites, that is perfectly legal :>
What you suggested is againest the law to invade the privacy and setting up people like that, 1995 i think bill clinton put that in if im right.
I am calling BS on this one. How is that against the law? Buying adena online is not ILLEGAL, it is against the EULA. Tracking transactions on YOUR OWN server is not ILLEGAL. How is this breaking the law? Please post a link to the legal document that says either one of these is illegal.
Not necessarily, some of us, myself included, signed up with bogus everything, address, birthday etc (obviously not bogus CC) because we figured a) it's none of their business and 2) when will it ever come up again?
Fortunately for me I corrected my data way before that reset.
They wait till the CM comes into work because that is their duties so they can post about what happened.
- and if there is none it's perfectly fine and usual good business behaviour to leave your customers completely in the dark...
MMOs are a unique venture in that way, because it seems to work. The customers are silly enough to go with whatever guano the companies serve them. If this was a business with a more tangible product they'd be out of it already.
yeah.. cheating has no impact on the game whatsoever, just look at how the population has exploded and how many new servers they've had to add over the last 3 yrs since the game went live. LOLOLOLL
L2 has had a rep as a cheaters game since day1, when we all [censored] and complained about the army of chinese farmers who were locking down areas and kicking players out since they didn't care about XP loss, and we did.
What you see now is the simple progression from those days until now.
L2 would make a good study as to the effects of rampant unchecked cheating on a competitive MMO. Most people stop playing a game if the other guy is cheating, and they are interested in playing by the rules. Some of us are gluttons for punishment.
It would be interesting to know if the game would have more real players had the rules been enforced from day 1, unfortunately, we will never know.
Alright so here goes Law that applies to this situation, I’m a little out of my element I usually focus on educational law but here goes.
What Clinton did with internet law on this situation. We are not trafficking in information or selling goods that would affect national security. One could say selling goods is taking place but to prove large scale money laundering by IGE or foreign nationals would be a huge stretch. Which no Judge is going to hear without mountains of proof.
2 Laws are focused here
1. Copyright and trademark
2. The US Privacy Act of 1974
With many Copyright and Trademark cases in the books this hinges on simply control of the assets namely intellectual property.
On the copyright and trademark claims. No copying of the works/marks is ever done, and since NCSoft retains control of the assets (they are in its database after all) they have a weak claim on the primary infringement side.
On the secondary infringement side they would win every time because you click yes to the EULA. IF you have ever read one you know you’re lucky they don’t come after your first born for 10 min of great gaming.
On the US Privacy Act of 1974 this came up with everquest I don’t know in 199?. And actually made it to a hearing faze but never made it into court.
2 issues here
1 a case where people’s names are also their e-mails and you can be prosecuted by your e-mail.
2 you subscribe to their game. They are not sharing the information with outside sources you gave them the information.
As long as the information does not come from a 3rd party AKA E-bay giving them information on X account that was sold. NcSoft could buy an account or adena, they own the intellectual property look in the database they have and close the account without the 3rd party ever being notified. As well as track data they own in their own system to close other accounts that account has engaged with.
Sony has been down this road fought the battle won, but decided to go over to the Dark Side and sell there own intellectual property to under cut the farmers and make more money for themselves. AC2 allowed 3rd party programs and they went belly up.
It’s up to every company to decide what to do that is right for them. A post like this helps them feel how their customers feel.
The larger issue is we are the secondary market for L2. I have yet to see much come of policy or player input from these board make it into game. I’d challenge Spam to list American influences on L2 from these boards. That is different than policy in Korea. But that is a different thread.
If I remember correctly, the DMCA (digital millenium copyright act) includes reverse engineering of software. This means that programs like walker, that have been created by reverse engineering the client, are ILLEGAL. They do not just break the EULA, they also break the DMCA.
If I want to live in a delusion, that's my choice. But you asked, and it was something that was suggested and now implemented.
Prove to me Korea had it months ago and that it wasn't a direct response to the idea I suggested.
I'll wait.
Good, be done in a few minutes ;) I've got to go through about 100 patch notes since Korea gets them alot more then us. (Although I can tell you what we will be getting...heh)
//Edit// Looks like 2/13 they got it. Currently they are testing Fotresses out.
I been playing for 3 years so has my wife between us we have a Noble 76/76 and 2 77’s How should I change my play style? To keep up with a guy who pays +$2000 dollars and has played for 1 day and is beating me at the game?
If a person is running around with
80/79
+16S weap
Zaken Earring
Ant Ring
Core
Orfen
Baium
And I have never seen this person in 3 years of play??? Till boom he is here???
someday someone will draw a line in the sand............
I think there is only one person at NCsoft who has the balls that’s Lord British aka Richard Garriott or a Guy named Q from M59. They said this in a panel way back.
Want to stop farmers easy, hire a person give them a $5000 a month budget. Go look to buy gold or accounts buy it and ban every account that person owns. Track large money transfers to and from that account and ban those accounts also.
You hit IGE this way and we would see the folks who buy and sell acounts dry up also no lewt gear for their accounts....
But who am I =o) counting the days to Tabula Rasa
The topic at hand is people buying accounts, not people botting up. If the account is sold or played by the original owner you still going to get owned, not matter who is playing it. My original point is how does someone buying an account effect you, not how does someone who bots effect you there is a difference. If they were duping accounts I can see a major problem and agree with your original statement, but thats not the case.
My suggestion to you and others is stop worrying so much about how others play and what they do and concentrate on how you can better yourself to be competitive. Possible changes would be to change guilds, concentrate on getting one character up to competitive status in lvls and gear. From what you said above you like to lvl new characters and move on to the next one. I would bet if you consolidated your items from your many 70+ characters you could afford some boss jewels, if not join a clan that can farm them. I also find it hard to see you are not competitive with the lvl of characters you have unless you rolled up some crap classes, maybe choose better next time.
Don't get me wrong, I am about as legit as most of you and I am sure people that have played with me can vouch for that. Just some people seem to think that teh daily posting about things like this will actually accomplish something when in fact it wont. The GMs are well aware of the problems and are doing what they can with the tools and guidelines they are given. They need to be very careful in how they handle each situation so they do not make a single mistake. I know people are getting banned daily and a mass ban IMO is probably due and coming.
The "stop trying" attitude is why this game is how it is. If we all just look the other way then NC sees it as being all good.
There's not a lot one can do.
The only tools at your disposal are "report offenders", complain on the forums/to customer service.
That's pretty much it.
There is nothing more one can do.
Interesting enough, the makers of EVE have been having some issues. So, they decided to have elections and bring in a small group of players to audit what they do several times per year.
Whether one actually thinks this will work or is even a good thing is another topic.
But short of getting that type of player involvement, what is one to do that you are not already doing?
Because, after you do your reporting, you still have to go in game and "deal". If going in game is no longer enjoyable then that pretty much establishes your decision.
The "stop trying" attitude is why this game is how it is. If we all just look the other way then NC sees it as being all good.
NCSoft is trying to draw a fine line between making money, keeping the game a float and keeping it as clean as possible. That is a fact I am sure you can agree on. We all have our opinions on this topic and for one Id like to see a cleaner game but I have come to realize they will do what they can with what they are told they can do. So I have adjusted my game play and have learned to live with it.
There have been /alot/ of fixes that we (NA market) dont get... until we notice, then its heres your fix!
For example, take a guess how many updates you have between chronicles in Korea, and take a guess how many are here. You think those numbers are the same? Not even close.
Why? Because they are just "rolled into" our major release. (Be it C5, Interlude, whatever) Unless of course you notice it and its a game breaking issue. (Lux shop springs to mind way back when, when that was fixed in Korea first but just..never done here)
Almost as if people are hired to do the translation just for update time (outsourced) then released of contract after its done, and hiring them would cost more money on a out of contract time or something.
Hell got me, just saying its a little fishy when you glance at korea's patch notes and notice that they have at least 2/3 a month and we are lucky if we get one a month.
lol we are dicussing for 17 pages now and no official comment yet.
this topic will be closed by moderator08 or one of his friends because it's too unconfortable for nc too read what we are thinking
^_^
4 pages actually, you can change the amount of posts per page. But I think they will let it go on as long as it is flame free, or until it turns to too much repetition. Otherwise they would have locked it already.
NCSoft is trying to draw a fine line between making money, keeping the game a float and keeping it as clean as possible. That is a fact I am sure you can agree on.
Nope. They never really appeared to take their own rules too serious, the effort they put into the clean part always appeared half hearted at best. There were some bursts now and then but those mostly coincided with holiday sales coming up or really big updates.
Lately they seem to have abandoned the clean part of the game so blatantly that I feel like they have given up on the afloat part as well.
You can't keep a game's community, however masochistic it may be, forever when you only concentrate on the bottom line...
That's simply a matter of opinion though, unless you work there. It's easy to say, man they are being lazy and not doing anything. Appearances are deceiving. :/
But I get that all the time from customers where I work too, when they have absolutely no idea what goes on in the background or how things just have to "work".
The "stop trying" attitude is why this game is how it is. If we all just look the other way then NC sees it as being all good.
NCSoft is trying to draw a fine line between making money, keeping the game a float and keeping it as clean as possible. That is a fact I am sure you can agree on. We all have our opinions on this topic and for one Id like to see a cleaner game but I have come to realize they will do what they can with what they are told they can do. So I have adjusted my game play and have learned to live with it.
This is why I am saying that NOW is the best time to do the massive clean up and become very strict on the rules. T1 could easily be a new beginning for the game. You will have 3 new classes that will have NO upper lvl competition. This means that if a brand new player starts as a Kamael, they will be on parr (lvl wise) with anyone who rerolls.
T1 is a chance for NC to relight the fire under L2. If they do some marketing, get the game into stores, publish some articles in magazines, etc. they will have a very good chance of getting new players into this game. Not only will you see new players starting up, but you will see long time players coming back.
The "stop trying" attitude is why this game is how it is. If we all just look the other way then NC sees it as being all good.
NCSoft is trying to draw a fine line between making money, keeping the game a float and keeping it as clean as possible. That is a fact I am sure you can agree on. We all have our opinions on this topic and for one Id like to see a cleaner game but I have come to realize they will do what they can with what they are told they can do. So I have adjusted my game play and have learned to live with it.
This is why I am saying that NOW is the best time to do the massive clean up and become very strict on the rules. T1 could easily be a new beginning for the game. You will have 3 new classes that will have NO upper lvl competition. This means that if a brand new player starts as a Kamael, they will be on parr (lvl wise) with anyone who rerolls.
T1 is a chance for NC to relight the fire under L2. If they do some marketing, get the game into stores, publish some articles in magazines, etc. they will have a very good chance of getting new players into this game. Not only will you see new players starting up, but you will see long time players coming back.
I agree. If they do a lot of marketing, some more bans and really make T1 appealing they could really get a huge amount of players.
But, this is NC and they are lackluster at advertising. At least over here.
That's what I think Blizzard does very well. They really believe in their product and won't hesitate to take advantage of every opportunity to tell you about it. Whether you like them, hate them, like their product/hate their product, you will see advertising for their product.
The "stop trying" attitude is why this game is how it is. If we all just look the other way then NC sees it as being all good.
NCSoft is trying to draw a fine line between making money, keeping the game a float and keeping it as clean as possible. That is a fact I am sure you can agree on. We all have our opinions on this topic and for one Id like to see a cleaner game but I have come to realize they will do what they can with what they are told they can do. So I have adjusted my game play and have learned to live with it.
This is why I am saying that NOW is the best time to do the massive clean up and become very strict on the rules. T1 could easily be a new beginning for the game. You will have 3 new classes that will have NO upper lvl competition. This means that if a brand new player starts as a Kamael, they will be on parr (lvl wise) with anyone who rerolls.
T1 is a chance for NC to relight the fire under L2. If they do some marketing, get the game into stores, publish some articles in magazines, etc. they will have a very good chance of getting new players into this game. Not only will you see new players starting up, but you will see long time players coming back.
I agree. If they do a lot of marketing, some more bans and really make T1 appealing they could really get a huge amount of players.
But, this is NC and they are lackluster at advertising. At least over here.
That's what I think Blizzard does very well. They really believe in their product and won't hesitate to take advantage of every opportunity to tell you about it. Whether you like them, hate them, like their product/hate their product, you will see advertising for their product.
True. I have never once seen advertising for L2. I had heard about it from my brother, who had seen a preview of the game on what used to be tech tv. This was when the game was in open beta, so they didnt have a review for it yet.
I would really like to see NC take a hint and advertise the crap out of T1. If they can clean up before T1, then they wont have to worry as much about the free trial adena seller site spammers. Here are the steps I would take:
1.) start doing weekly bannings of farmers / botters.
2.) have a weekly patch that makes it so walker / other proggys need to be updated in order to work.
3.) make all these efforts well known to the gaming community (not just the L2 community).
4.) advertise T1 like there is no tomorrow.
5.) reap the benefits as new and old players join the game once again.
That's simply a matter of opinion though, unless you work there. It's easy to say, man they are being lazy and not doing anything. Appearances are deceiving. :/
But I get that all the time from customers where I work too, when they have absolutely no idea what goes on in the background or how things just have to "work".
I know what you mean Ellie, I got enough years of work behind me to realize that this is usually true. If I compare NC's actions to other companies though; some don't even have it half as bad but are actually working on those problems. Then look back as at L2 which is drowning in things that go against their own ToS/A & EULA and lately nothing has been done...
I like giving companies the benefit of the doubt just as I do with people. There is a max of that though and NC is way beyond that. Appearances can be deceiving but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... =P
I'm not really talking against people like our CMs (whome we burn bloody fast, sadly) or HGM Spam and his guys. They are actually more or less in the same boat. The people I really despise and come to loathe are those above them. Those that are actually responsible for making this mess neigh unsalvagable.
Namárië
Badger[49]
PS: I'd love to give some constructive criticism but the problems are so bleeding obvious and all of them have been mentioned in this thread (and boards, repeatedly) as well. So where're the people who deceive us with their appearances, or lack thereof? <_<
EDIT:
1.) start doing weekly bannings of farmers / botters.
2.) have a weekly patch that makes it so walker / other proggys need to be updated in order to work.
These things have been asked for since even before GG was introduced. After it was introduced #2 was asked for even more, since 99% of automatons use the hobbler and it would de facto kill all of those off.
It would cost money though (like, one guy more who's dedicated to it...) and we can't have that... it'd also cost the revenue of all those hobblers so that's another reason why it won't ever happen.
Prove me wrong NC, I dare you.
The feeling that I get with regards to NCSoft is that someone has been cutting heavily at the support in an effort to lower overhead and increase profit. Why? Well let's see - Mistryl has been gone for over a month, and no new CM. Events have suddenly become few and far between. Cheating is raging possibly worse than ever, unchecked. We had word of layoffs at NCSoft - when was that a year ago?
To all appearances, it seemd they have cut staffing to the bone. We've known from day1 that all of the website developers, and front end support staff are shared among all of NCSoft's titles.
There's no doubt that to run a profitable company, costs must be kept in check. But at the same time, we all know, you have to spend money ot make money.
In the customer service world, which is what an MMO is all about, customer service, if you cut to deep it doesn't take long before your product starts to hurt.
I guess we can debate all day about which would make more money - a clean game with a bit more overhead to keep it that way, or a filthy cesspool of a game with no rule enforcement whatsoever.
Hey - ya know maybe Sovrath was on to something when he asked if anyone had ever heard of a PVP game where cheating was actively and heavily put in check. Might be a genre all it's own - Cheat Free PvP MMO!!
If NCSoft NA was allowed to run L2 as an independent project I think it would probably very much more successful, I think your right badger the problem stems from NCSoft Korea having complete say over what NCSoft NA does even if the management here does not agree with it. Might be part of the reason some of the top people have gone elsewhere because of the lack of freedom that Korea allows NA to do with this game.
I do not believe (Spam could correct if im wrong) that NA actually rights their own policies or guidelines for bannings or bot reporting etc. They go on the policies given to them by the head hanchos in Korea and their hands are effectily tied. Im sure from just my interactions with the staff from NCSoft here most are very intelligent and capable but they do not have much wiggle room on what they can and can't do.
the minute any GM or NC personality actually does come out and tell what the rules are point for point, guaranteed we will know why people bot and arent seemingly caught. it will also give the average cheater room to find loopholes and exploit them without NC being able to do thing 1 about it.
it will also give the average cheater room to find loopholes and exploit them without NC being able to do thing 1 about it.
The ToS/A & EULA gives NC a free hand to do whatever they want with whatever account whenever they like. They do not need to fix loopholes. They just need to start enforcing their own bloody rules.
As it were, there are rules but all the cops are off eating donuts...