So, a few friends of mine and I have a theory on Over-Enchanting, specifically:
* At item (weapon/armor/jewelry) creation, the maximum enchantment value possible is assigned to the item.
We have started testing this theory a little, using Blessed enchants (in this case, on armor) to determine when the item enchantment fails, then retrying again to see if we got the same result.
In this case, the item was originally able to hit +5 (using Blessed Enchants after +3), but not past it. On 5 separate re-attempts to enchant the same item (again using Blessed Enchants), again we consistantly hit +5, but never above it.
Further testing needs to be done, but me and my friends are all poor.
Since we know that the server tracks details about weapons (for example, when you add an Augmentation), it is quite possible that, in the case of equipment, some meta-data is stored that says what the max enchant value is.
Just our theory thus far, but so far... it seems to hold.
Wanted to see if anyone had data that further collaborated or dismisses this theory?
Dismissed, people have always had crazy ideas regarding OE..but it all comes down to the 66.666666% chance (or 1/3) chance of failure. I used to think this was wrong, but recently I OE 4 weapons (C grade, lol) to +9 and all blew going to +10. It is random and you can;t do anything to change it in my opinion. OE should not be in the game; I've lost so much money doing it x.x Woot +11! I feel lucky! *apply enchant* !WTS B crystals pm me! This has happened to me and many more a LOT, just change the numbers and crystal grade around a bit and it is for everyone =P
I think that it is random too.... at item creation time.
When the equipment is made, I suspect that the server does its little random rolls at that moment, determines the failure number, and assigns it to the item.
So basically, it pre-random rolls at item creation, rather than on-the-fly random rolls at scroll use.
More testing needs to be done, to determine if this is the case or not.
Anyone have any actually tested information to back up this theory or not, rather than just a belief?
I've used plenty of blessed enchants on boss jewels, and the same jewel will sometimes blow up going +5, then on +4 the next time, then go +5 without breaking.
Even then, you can bend your theory by saying that the pre-determined roll is done when it's sent back to +0. There's no way to test it really.
Dismissed, people have always had crazy ideas regarding OE..but it all comes down to the 66.666666% chance (or 1/3) chance of failure. I used to think this was wrong, but recently I OE 4 weapons (C grade, lol) to +9 and all blew going to +10. It is random and you can;t do anything to change it in my opinion. OE should not be in the game; I've lost so much money doing it x.x Woot +11! I feel lucky! *apply enchant* !WTS B crystals pm me! This has happened to me and many more a LOT, just change the numbers and crystal grade around a bit and it is for everyone =P
Although technically possible, I doubt they implemented the system in this way. To get an observed ~66% enchant success rate using that system would be very difficult, if not impossible.
I would challenge anybody to come up with the math behind this type of system. You'll quickly run into some issues (e.g., what happens if everybody only tries for +4, will you still achieve 66% rate?). The results will be skewed, as you're relying on the enchanter to always take the weapon to its max.
ok this is how it goes u have a 2/3 chance of getting it that all 66.6666666..... thats all they is no way of changing its all random and on lucky they only reason people have +16 weapons is because of this they are really really lucky or that have sooo much adena they do stack at a time to get it that all 66.66665 chance this theory it doesnt work its all luck i have gotting many weapon to +10 or +8 or sven +4 and then have it blow put the same onces and different we just need to stop with this stuip OE theory u have a 66.6666% chance and that all im sorry to say but that all
Ok, here is some complex math to come up with... :)
Random number generator that generates numbers from 1 to 6. If the number generated is a 5 or a 6 the weapon blows up.
Do you have any IT work that needs to be done? I can sit down with you and go over contract details.... :)
I was referring to the math it would take to achieve a 66% success rate using a system that the original poster alluded to. A dice roll isn't going to cut it. Unless you can fill me in on how a number from 1 to 6 is going to set the pre-determined safe level of an arbitrary weapon? Please, pay attention to the thread!
Ok, here is some complex math to come up with... :)
Random number generator that generates numbers from 1 to 6. If the number generated is a 5 or a 6 the weapon blows up.
Do you have any IT work that needs to be done? I can sit down with you and go over contract details.... :)
I was referring to the math it would take to achieve a 66% success rate using a system that the original poster alluded to. A dice roll isn't going to cut it. Unless you can fill me in on how a number from 1 to 6 is going to set the pre-determined safe level of an arbitrary weapon? Please, pay attention to the thread!
So you are referring to achieving a 66% success rate on a weapon that is pre-set to safely enchant to a certain level?
I want to be clear so as not to misinterpret your meaning.
Do you mean achieving the 66% success rate after the safe level of each individual weapon?
Do you mean having 66% of the weapons not blow up even though they all have a pre-set level at which they will?
The OP has a theory that weapons are created with a certain safe enchant level. So a weapon is made to be safe at, say, +8. It won't blow up unless the user tries to take it to +9. This is proposed by the OP.
Now, we know from a certain site that the observed success rate for enchanting weapons past +3 is hovering at around 66% (slightly higher actually, but insignificantly).
I want to know how it would be possible to observe a 66% success rate by using a system described by the OP. It would be too easy to skew the numbers. For example, if the system creates a bunch of weapons but nobody dares enchant past +4, it would be highly unlikely that you're going to see a 66% success rate. All the weapons that were pre-set to +5 and higher never had a chance to blow up; your success rate will be higher than 66%.
There is a variable in the OP's theory that the system can't control, and that is the number of enchants a person is going to try on the weapon. All I'm asking for is how the system is going to maintain a 66% success rate on enchant attempts when it doesn't have control over all aspects of the enchanting process.
A simple random dice roll makes sense and fits well with the observed results. This is how I think it's done. I just want somebody to explain how it could work using the OP's theory.
The OP has a theory that weapons are created with a certain safe enchant level. So a weapon is made to be safe at, say, +8. It won't blow up unless the user tries to take it to +9. This is proposed by the OP.
Now, we know from a certain site that the observed success rate for enchanting weapons past +3 is hovering at around 66% (slightly higher actually, but insignificantly).
I want to know how it would be possible to observe a 66% success rate by using a system described by the OP. It would be too easy to skew the numbers. For example, if the system creates a bunch of weapons but nobody dares enchant past +4, it would be highly unlikely that you're going to see a 66% success rate. All the weapons that were pre-set to +5 and higher never had a chance to blow up; your success rate will be higher than 66%.
There is a variable in the OP's theory that the system can't control, and that is the number of enchants a person is going to try on the weapon. All I'm asking for is how the system is going to maintain a 66% success rate on enchant attempts when it doesn't have control over all aspects of the enchanting process.
A simple random dice roll makes sense and fits well with the observed results. This is how I think it's done. I just want somebody to explain how it could work using the OP's theory.
if you were allowed to enchant 20 times per weapon regardless of blow or not.
as you said, if i stop at +4, i havent observed the whole set of enchants that might be possible.
since not many try for +17 or +20, it is highly unlikely that a system that generated a number from 4-20 would still control the players who do the enchanting.
btw+6 A grade weaponry sells for 400m and costs about 1/2 of that to craft and enchant on a good day. let us please get over the "try for +20" as likely you will not succeed at anything but a priest mace.
if, instead, we take enchants to be 1/100th of their drop rate currently, and unobtainable by mammon (so, back to C2 rules - no BE scrolls and no hero pointfarming for scrolls) then enchanting would be far rarer, and only the lucky (or bloody rich) could afford to go safely to the enchant limit for their item (assuming you could see the limit)
Ok, here is some complex math to come up with... :)
Random number generator that generates numbers from 1 to 6. If the number generated is a 5 or a 6 the weapon blows up.
Do you have any IT work that needs to be done? I can sit down with you and go over contract details.... :)
I was referring to the math it would take to achieve a 66% success rate using a system that the original poster alluded to. A dice roll isn't going to cut it. Unless you can fill me in on how a number from 1 to 6 is going to set the pre-determined safe level of an arbitrary weapon? Please, pay attention to the thread!
First of all, I have no idea whether the system the OP referred to is indeed the system that is operational inside L2. That being said, in response to your question, it is not difficult at all to generate the 2/3rds outcome in game using the OP system. The math would look something like this (I'll write it out in lazy generic programming language).
// TotalEnchant variable is how many times all items created in game have been safely enchanted after 3.
// FailedEnchant variable is how many times all items created in game have blown up upon enchantment attempt beyond 3.
// DesiredProbability is the probability of enchantment NCSoft desires.
// ActualProbability is the actual probability of enchantment ingame.
// NewDesiredProbabily is the probability needed to pull the ingame probability towards NCSoft's desired probability.
// ChanceOfFail[number] is the chance that an item will fail when it is attempted to be enchanted as many times as are in the [number].
// Seed is the random seed.
// MaxEnchant variable is how many times an item can be safely echanted after 3.
So, a few friends of mine and I have a theory on Over-Enchanting, specifically:
* At item (weapon/armor/jewelry) creation, the maximum enchantment value possible is assigned to the item.
We have started testing this theory a little, using Blessed enchants (in this case, on armor) to determine when the item enchantment fails, then retrying again to see if we got the same result.
In this case, the item was originally able to hit +5 (using Blessed Enchants after +3), but not past it. On 5 separate re-attempts to enchant the same item (again using Blessed Enchants), again we consistantly hit +5, but never above it.
Further testing needs to be done, but me and my friends are all poor.
Since we know that the server tracks details about weapons (for example, when you add an Augmentation), it is quite possible that, in the case of equipment, some meta-data is stored that says what the max enchant value is.
Just our theory thus far, but so far... it seems to hold.
Wanted to see if anyone had data that further collaborated or dismisses this theory?
Thanks!
-SweetKnight
Did you try to get it to +5 using simple enchants after applying the Blessed ones? That would make a good sample of what is really going on.
Cmon.. if max OE value exist on each weapon, it should be saved somwhere in database. And we know for sure, it isnt in database. So, such thing like max item OE value doesnt exist at all.
About weapon/armor/jewelery thing.
1) Ppl tend OE weapons first. Much more tries - mora accurate results. Check l2 wh. Ppl tried OE weapons more than armors+jew. And person need 1 weapon and 10 pieces of armor!!! Off > def in L2
2) One person need only 1 weapon, and 5 armor pieces + 5 jewels. So if u want all set +6, u need 15 succesfull enchats. It takes much more money and time, then to make weapon +8 for example. And its not so profitable. No profit = no OE armor/jew in market.
3) Armor/jew enchat has no visual efect. Ppl want +16 not becouse it much better than +12 or +15. Its becouse of visual efect. Anyone played MU online? OE armors was very popular.
are u idiots ignoring the fact that its been proven time and time again that it is NOT 66% chance on every single item, [censored] i even had a GM friend tell me certain weapons have better chances.
We can simply compare a dagger and a mage weapon. The difference is obvious. Same with armor going frm +5 to +6 compared to weapons.
are u idiots ignoring the fact that its been proven time and time again that it is NOT 66% chance on every single item, [censored] i even had a GM friend tell me certain weapons have better chances.
We can simply compare a dagger and a mage weapon. The difference is obvious. Same with armor going frm +5 to +6 compared to weapons.
a good fool believes his friend is a GM and is telling the truth.
Spudnik, i guess you dont know my enchant history, over 30-50 items over +10, need i say more, i quite well KNOW about enchant rates, oh yea failing 15 armor items from +5 to +6 but pretty much never failing dark screamers from +5 to +6? yea comon thers a different rate.
Its simply a system built around the Skill enchants, higher it goes, lower the probability of success
are u idiots ignoring the fact that its been proven time and time again that it is NOT 66% chance on every single item, [censored] i even had a GM friend tell me certain weapons have better chances.
We can simply compare a dagger and a mage weapon. The difference is obvious. Same with armor going frm +5 to +6 compared to weapons.
GM friend where? In retail server? Imho most players know about game more than GM's.
In private servers? If it was L2 java server - sure, they can do 75% rate, or 33%. Or 1%. Not everything what in privates servers is true here.
would i be stupid enough to even mention a P server here like u did?
No he worked for ncsoft until he end of C3.
He did though tell me that he believed items did spawn with a certain enchant level.
Now that dosnt mean it will get there every time. It still has a percentage each enchant, it more means it can only ever reach that number, which my guess would mean between 10-20 cos 4 would be stupid :>
There is a durability setting for every item in game that can be enchanted (and even those that cant, like NG). Weapons have higher durabilty then armor, which has higher durability then jewerly. Hence my post before about Weapons > Armor > Jewels. Weapons can be more readily enchancted higher then armor, which is more readily enchanted higher then jewels (not by much though).
Its true that a few items have higher durability then like items, so it appears that a certain item can be safely enchanted more easily then other like items. But the probabilty is still there. You still have the same 66.6% chance.
As others have said, it either works, or it doesnt. Just because you have "good luck" doesnt mean that the item was destined to reach a certain enchant level. It just did.