We were on vent last night discussing different skills and none of us know the answers to these questions. Why do sorcerers get surrender to wind but no wind spells? And why do Mystic Muse get Light Vortex and Ice Vortex
Storm Screamer get Dark Vortex and Wind Vortex
and Archmystic only get Fire Vortex? If anyone knows the answers or has some idea we would love to know. Thanks.
According to the history of the Humans, the Elves and the Dark Elves it is ok for the DE to have Dark and Wind vortex (since they also have relevant skills: Hurricane (wind)/Shadow Flare (dark)) and LE to have Light and Ice (since they also have relevant skills (Solar Flare (short of sacred)/Ice dagger (ice))
I dont remember if Solar Flare comes for sorcs also but the humans are not Dark like the DEs nor Divine like the LEs, they are the mix of all races made from Gran Kain, so they should either have it all (completely unbalanced) or just each of their class have one element...
I still don't understand why the game calls a sorcerer a "master of the elements" and makes you visit ALL the elemental spirits during the class transfer quest (wind/water/fire/earth), but then later on sorcs only get fire attacks >.<
Seriously, the whole "dark elves are 'evil' and so they get dark vortex plus wind vortex, and light elves are 'good', so they get light vortex plus ice vortex" thing might be justifiable via game background, but giving sorcs only ONE vortex is simply unbalanced and bad game design. Introduce something new, an "earth vortex" and an "earth flare" or whatever, and give it to sorcs. All true nuker classes should have two vortex skills and an overhit skill pre-76. There is absolutely nothing among the sorc skills which balances out the lack of nukes the class suffers from.
It has crossed my mind in the past that the reason for this, is that at some point it was intended that the 3 mage classes should be working together. Either all the time or a lot of the time. If you look at the skills, it appears that all 3 of them together can take on whatever they come against. Each of them having skills that can enhance the others. Almost, because it also appears that the idea was executed poorly, since the SH does not get Surrender to water or the SPS Surrender to Fire. lol
Also you will see that in the higher levels they acquire skills that require them to work together in order to work. The elemental attacks. Although these attacks are not as powerful as everyone hoped they would be, still they are quite strong and require all 3 of the mage classes on order to cast them. I believe this supports my theory.
So in the end? It looks like a good idea that got started and then they never went back and finished it.
It has crossed my mind in the past that the reason for this, is that at some point it was intended that the 3 mage classes should be working together. Either all the time or a lot of the time. If you look at the skills, it appears that all 3 of them together can take on whatever they come against.
Also you will see that in the higher levels they acquire skills that require them to work together in order to work. The elemental attacks. Although these attacks are not as powerful as everyone hoped they would be, still they are quite strong and require all 3 of the mage classes on order to cast them. I believe this supports my theory.
I like your answer but the problem now is that they broke their own lore, namely that dark elves and elves should be enemies and that humans are despised by all.
Actually I think the love for sps's is THERE but not just implemented well. We get two AOE spells unfortunately one needs to be cast nose to nose to mobs, we get ice dagger which is nice in theory, freezing shackle which is another nice one in theory, aura flare which was zomg nerfed, aura bolt which is handy and low cost, and then of course surrender to earth which does absolutely nothing.
Ok, your points are well taken, the SPS does have a nice skill set. When you speak on implementation though, well it was good at one time, then they nerfed the living daylights out of our AOE skills (everyone elses too), then they did the some thing to the main skills we had to get us (and SS) invited to parties, Sleep and Sleeping Cloud. Effectively making the SS and SPS, persona non-grata, in parties with the exception of clan/ally parties and even then we are sometimes made to feel like leeches that the others would prefer to be non-present.
Now, I don't know about you, but I don't call that love.
"Hey, that dark elf has half of my skills... at least I have more debuffs BUT no overhit skill! And I have to be on 1/3 HP or have lots of money to be able to do anything!".
Every class has it's ups and it's downs. It's learning how to use them which makes them good. People put the paladins down, but how many other classes can res themselves?
We were on vent last night discussing different skills and none of us know the answers to these questions. Why do sorcerers get surrender to wind but no wind spells? And why do Mystic Muse get Light Vortex and Ice Vortex
Storm Screamer get Dark Vortex and Wind Vortex
and Archmystic only get Fire Vortex? If anyone knows the answers or has some idea we would love to know. Thanks.
ok....I know the answer to the second one.
There are Elemental and dark/light attacks....each class gets their own doses of these skills. Elves and dark elves are either nukers or healers. SH get dark/wind skills and Elves get light/water skills. Humans on the other hand are more specific. They split their elemental Class (sorc: fire) and dark class (necromancer) apart. Dark/light vortexes are at lvl 76 and elemental vortexes are at lvl 77.....with this in mind...you can now see that sorc is not the only gimped nuker...necro is not a complete nuker either. Necro+sorc combined makes a complete nuker. (although I will not argue that necro is way better at many things)
I hope that cleared everything up.
P.S. I do not know if anyone clarified earlier in the thread as I didnt bother to read.
Now there's a question that I think people have been asking ever since the very beginning. It really doesn't make any since at all. That goes right along with, why don't we have a buff that give unholy attribute to our attacks? Would be perfect buff for SE only, espcially now that we have places like MOS.
It has crossed my mind in the past that the reason for this, is that at some point it was intended that the 3 mage classes should be working together. Either all the time or a lot of the time. If you look at the skills, it appears that all 3 of them together can take on whatever they come against. Each of them having skills that can enhance the others. Almost, because it also appears that the idea was executed poorly, since the SH does not get Surrender to water or the SPS Surrender to Fire. lol
Also you will see that in the higher levels they acquire skills that require them to work together in order to work. The elemental attacks. Although these attacks are not as powerful as everyone hoped they would be, still they are quite strong and require all 3 of the mage classes on order to cast them. I believe this supports my theory.
So in the end? It looks like a good idea that got started and then they never went back and finished it.
This is entirely wrong. None of the mage classes actually helps a different mage class. Sure there are mage fusion spells, but they are so mp and time inefficient that there is absolutely no reason to ever sue them, and I am not going to even talk about the 20 minute reuse timer on the seed spells needed to use these.
What is left then, the level 80 aoe spells? The forces which must be collected for those can come from any class which originated from a mystic class. A healer could fill in for a mage, you could do it with only mystic muses or only archmages, it just doesn't matter.
The sorceror and spellsinger classes are mirror images of each other, with slight variations, but in no way does one complement the other, the same with the spellhowler. No mage class complements another mage class, every mage is a suppliment for another mage. though a sorceror is probably the bottom of the barrel due to no overhit spell. A spellsinger isn't too far off because of a lack of any real mp regeneration ability on the scale of body to mind or death spike or curse death link or vampiric claw or corpse life drain.
It has crossed my mind in the past that the reason for this, is that at some point it was intended that the 3 mage classes should be working together. Either all the time or a lot of the time. If you look at the skills, it appears that all 3 of them together can take on whatever they come against. Each of them having skills that can enhance the others. Almost, because it also appears that the idea was executed poorly, since the SH does not get Surrender to water or the SPS Surrender to Fire. lol
Also you will see that in the higher levels they acquire skills that require them to work together in order to work. The elemental attacks. Although these attacks are not as powerful as everyone hoped they would be, still they are quite strong and require all 3 of the mage classes on order to cast them. I believe this supports my theory.
So in the end? It looks like a good idea that got started and then they never went back and finished it.
No mage class complements another mage class, every mage is a suppliment for another mage. though a sorceror is probably the bottom of the barrel due to no overhit spell. A spellsinger isn't too far off because of a lack of any real mp regeneration ability on the scale of body to mind or death spike or curse death link or vampiric claw or corpse life drain.
if any mage DOES support others it would be a necro because gloom stacks with surrenders...other than that, every mage is independent =P
"Hey, that dark elf has half of my skills... at least I have more debuffs BUT no overhit skill! And I have to be on 1/3 HP or have lots of money to be able to do anything!".
Every class has it's ups and it's downs. It's learning how to use them which makes them good. People put the paladins down, but how many other classes can res themselves?
Human nukers do not get OH nukes pre 3rd class (Sorc Get one later on?). This is why Elf and DEF nukers get D grade overhit but Human Wizards get nothing. Having no OH nuke as a Necro is not a detriment, it's just part of the racial categorization of the class. It's a human class and thus gets no overhit by nature. Hardly anything to scoff at.
You can be poor and still level faster than a Sorc (who has low level of B2M). You only have to be at ~1/2 HP (I posted screenshot not long ago) to use a nuke that has an equal MP cost to Prominence and 2 shot mobs for the same amount of XP as using Death Spike. On top of that equal mana cost you have much higher levels of Body to Mind and Corpse Life Drain. Infinite HP/MP regen capabilities is the result of this.
Apparently no thought went into the Sorceror or SPS classes, because after they nerfed Sleep and Aura Flare most of them were sitting around wondering what the purpose of their class was. It was just too easy to nerf Sorcerors into uselessness - it shouldn't be like that. Take away Tx Pain from Necros and they'll still be one the most powerful nuker in the game, due to their secondary abilities (Silence, Anchor, Fear, Slow, Drains, Nukes, CDL, etc.). Alot of fallbacks are built into the Necro and SH classes, but there was never anything to prefer Sorc and SPS other than their then IMBA spells - besides SPS fast cast speed.
I actually don't think things like Body to Mind and CLD should separate the Mage classes. It should be their spells/elements/and secondary abilities. Core features that affect general PvE prowess of mage classes should have been shared by all of them (B2M, CLD, Clear Mind, Mana Regeneration, etc.).
Spell Powers should have been adjusted based on what classes got them, for example:
Hydroblase Lv X - Power 74
Death Spike Lv X - Power 77
Prominence Lv X - Power 80
Hurricane Lv X - Power 83
With Cast speeds adjusted accordingly to offset the insane benefit of INT/WIT tats and keep the 4 mage classes in balance.
It has crossed my mind in the past that the reason for this, is that at some point it was intended that the 3 mage classes should be working together. Either all the time or a lot of the time. If you look at the skills, it appears that all 3 of them together can take on whatever they come against. Each of them having skills that can enhance the others. Almost, because it also appears that the idea was executed poorly, since the SH does not get Surrender to water or the SPS Surrender to Fire. lol
Also you will see that in the higher levels they acquire skills that require them to work together in order to work. The elemental attacks. Although these attacks are not as powerful as everyone hoped they would be, still they are quite strong and require all 3 of the mage classes on order to cast them. I believe this supports my theory.
So in the end? It looks like a good idea that got started and then they never went back and finished it.
No mage class complements another mage class, every mage is a suppliment for another mage. though a sorceror is probably the bottom of the barrel due to no overhit spell. A spellsinger isn't too far off because of a lack of any real mp regeneration ability on the scale of body to mind or death spike or curse death link or vampiric claw or corpse life drain.
if any mage DOES support others it would be a necro because gloom stacks with surrenders...other than that, every mage is independent =P
Surrender to Fire = Nerf to Water
Surrender to Water = Nerf to Fire
Wind is Cool (Who uses Earth), Gloom is Good (Stacks nicely).
Lol. There's no surrender to dark, so Sorceror is the only class that gets nerfed on high M.Def mobs when an SPS is in the party (since they will surrender often to up their MP-efficiency due to lower M.Atk and horrible MP regen).
I used to hate doing rifts with friends because one of them was an Elven Wizard and I was a Human Wizard - he would always be surrendering the mobs and my damage would get nerfed alot.
Good thing Sorc is rare, they would get frustrated and log out in our nuker groups (usually 2 SPS come), Lmao!
We were on vent last night discussing different skills and none of us know the answers to these questions. Why do sorcerers get surrender to wind but no wind spells? And why do Mystic Muse get Light Vortex and Ice Vortex
Storm Screamer get Dark Vortex and Wind Vortex
and Archmystic only get Fire Vortex? If anyone knows the answers or has some idea we would love to know. Thanks.
I don't know the answer, but I wonder if l2 is trying to adhere to the source mythology of magic in general... namely that elves and dark elves are magical creatures and as such, can create eldritch effects by using the magic that exists within themselves (Light or Dark), as well as tap the ambient magic that exists around them (i.e., the elements). Humans, on the other hand, are not magical creatures and do not create magic within, but simply tap into and manipulate the ambient magic that exists around them.
Trensharo is right. Any time I am in a mage group, each mage should pick a target, surrender it, vortex it, and kill it. Anything else takes more time, and is less efficient.
Sadly, this is why the best mage group in the game, usually only has one mage :(