it's got to the stage where affter a couple of hours grind I don't feel like XPing anymore. Every 2 minutes I gotta open my inventory to delete this junk, my clannies get the same too and theres absolutely no fun to it at all.
I vote this event stops now, it's useless, not fun and makes levelling hell. :mad:
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
Well said, MrT. It doesn't matter WHAT the event is, people complain about it. Then, a few months later, they refer back to that event as the 'good one' and wish the current event was like the one they complained about!
My theory is that people just like to complain sometimes, perhaps they think that it makes them look wise or something. Good heavens, taking a few seconds to delete items you don't want is trivial, it takes less time to delete the items than it does to complain about it on the forum!
Well said, MrT. It doesn't matter WHAT the event is, people complain about it. Then, a few months later, they refer back to that event as the 'good one' and wish the current event was like the one they complained about!
WTB Whines from the Letter event or the Heart event.
Oh wait, there werent any. Why? Cuz they didnt suck.
Plain and simple the "event" sucks. We want actual events not stupid crap like this. It's an annoyance more than an event.
To whoever chose to run this one, please quit and spare us anymore of your bright ideas.
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec. You guys all sound like little kids. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH QQ
WTB Whines from the Letter event or the Heart event.
Oh wait, there werent any. Why? Cuz they didnt suck.
/The End.
This takes up too much inventory space!
There's a rare part that makes completing a word/heart impossible!
Waaaah! Waaaah!
Pay up.
Yep... I heard those same complaints.
OH OH I got it. Lets have an event that just drops all top S grade weapons and boss jewels. AND.... lets make it so that these items automatically go into our warehouse...AND lets make it so that our warehouse has unlimited space....
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Some people are just born complainers. Nothing will satisfy them. :cool:
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Some people are just born complainers. Nothing will satisfy them. :cool:
Its like when a kid asks you for a snickers bar and you say no, but you can have my butterfinger bar. They eat the butterfinger and then cry because they cant have the snickers bar as well.
Wow gotta love the people who can be fed crap and be pleased with it.
I'm sorry to hear that your expectations are so low. I'd love to feel the same way.
Please tell us why the event is good. What was the marketing scheme for the event? How does the event make players want to log in and join in the fun? Would this event pull me back in from another game I am playing? In general what is the purpose and goal of this event?
I look forward to reading your answers instead of your whining about people who feel the event blows. Offer something constructive?
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Some people are just born complainers. Nothing will satisfy them. :cool:
Its like when a kid asks you for a snickers bar and you say no, but you can have my butterfinger bar. They eat the butterfinger and then cry because they cant have the snickers bar as well.
No, it's more like when you have paid $15 a month for 3+ years, and the customer support says, "In exchange for your monthly fee, we are changeing the product you have purchased so that it is harder for you to enjoy your product." Well thanks for that.
The event HURTS gameplay expierence.
This is not crying but a legitimate complaint. When you learn the difference, maybe people wont just think of you as a dumb -_-. Then again looking at your avatar/name there is little chance of that.
I thought the Golem raid boss one was good, my clan cleaned up a few of the golems which was cool
Also I ran into some weird mobs at the end of talking island where are the golems are. My fiancee was fooling around with my character and I left the room for a few. I came back as saw that he had picked up a few scrolls and 50 SoP's along with some other crafting stuff. I took over and looked up near the cliff and there was a load of golems surrounding the raid boss that is usually in the ruins 0_o.
I took out a few and got about 4 drops all together. I am quite pleased. Passed it all over to my scavy for the time being.
I have a screeny of all the golems but the chat window didn't pop up so you can't see the drops. It was made of awesomeness though.
This event is pretty yawn factor. I'll probably store the stacking potions just incase I'm ever bored. Non stacking will go in the garbage. I grinded last night with my SR in the same spot at pavel ruins and picked up around 20 when my session was done lol.
Well in my option there are many types of events. This is a very nice event because its is a fun event. A lot of players dont play for fun, then they dont like this type of events :)
Thks NCSoft.
A tip: dont delete the item just dont pickup it :)
Or if you pickup it, use it maybe you get fun :)
Wow gotta love the people who can be fed crap and be pleased with it.
I'm sorry to hear that your expectations are so low. I'd love to feel the same way.
Please tell us why the event is good. What was the marketing scheme for the event? How does the event make players want to log in and join in the fun? Would this event pull me back in from another game I am playing? In general what is the purpose and goal of this event?
I look forward to reading your answers instead of your whining about people who feel the event blows. Offer something constructive?
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't care for this event. I posted constructive criticism about why in another thread. I'm sure you can find if it you look hard enough.
What bothers me is that people complain because they didn't get what they wanted. They don't give constructive criticism to change the events in the future, they just whine and moan because "zomg! the event suxx0rs llama [censored]s!"
To me, it looks like people remove their ability to think the moment they click that [post reply] or [new post] button.
Wow gotta love the people who can be fed crap and be pleased with it.
I'm sorry to hear that your expectations are so low. I'd love to feel the same way.
Please tell us why the event is good. What was the marketing scheme for the event? How does the event make players want to log in and join in the fun? Would this event pull me back in from another game I am playing? In general what is the purpose and goal of this event?
I look forward to reading your answers instead of your whining about people who feel the event blows. Offer something constructive?
Well atleast for me is fun change my apparence for free :)
Aside from the usual wacky people I don't think anyone is expecting uber drops out of an event. Just something useful that takes your mind away from the drudgery of levelling in this game. We all know S grade enchants popping out left to right would be overkill and all, but the pots are bad. They have weight. There is no reason to collect them so have to waste 5-6 slots in inventory to store crap in between purges is annoying. They sell to the store for 0 adena. They are readily buyable from the dawn/dusk priest. Their sadly not fun if you have been in the game and levelled past a newb town.
Better to just kill the event, fire the person who implemented and go back to the drawing board.
Here, too, is something to consider. On Lionna, there is an excess of AA on the market, such that conversion rates are down to 2:1 or less.
This event causes you to buy hair / face potions from the Dawn Priest, using (you guessed it) AA. What that does is to help provide an AA sink, that may (I don't know yet if it will) help raise the conversion rate again.
This, in turn, drives the Top D / Enchant Scrolls / Greater Potion market higher (as you can use AA for all of these items).
So... maybe, just maybe the event IS designed to have an economic impact, it's just not readily visible to those who don't know where to look.
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Some people are just born complainers. Nothing will satisfy them. :cool:
Its like when a kid asks you for a snickers bar and you say no, but you can have my butterfinger bar. They eat the butterfinger and then cry because they cant have the snickers bar as well.
No, it's more like when you have paid $15 a month for 3+ years, and the customer support says, "In exchange for your monthly fee, we are changeing the product you have purchased so that it is harder for you to enjoy your product." Well thanks for that.
I didnt realize it was soo difficult to get rid of the pots. Im so sorry you have trouble deleting them.
This is not crying but a legitimate complaint. When you learn the difference, maybe people wont just think of you as a dumb -_-. Then again looking at your avatar/name there is little chance of that.
saying "THIS EVENT SUXORS" "NC NEVER LISTENS TO US" are not legit complaints. That is called whining. Take a look at what Jkoster said in the feedback about this event post. That is a legit complaint. Now, about my forum name and avatar... LOL. Look at your own.
Here, too, is something to consider. On Lionna, there is an excess of AA on the market, such that conversion rates are down to 2:1 or less.
This event causes you to buy hair / face potions from the Dawn Priest, using (you guessed it) AA. What that does is to help provide an AA sink, that may (I don't know yet if it will) help raise the conversion rate again.
This, in turn, drives the Top D / Enchant Scrolls / Greater Potion market higher (as you can use AA for all of these items).
So... maybe, just maybe the event IS designed to have an economic impact, it's just not readily visible to those who don't know where to look.
Accept there are so many pots you just randomly use them until you get your look back. I haven't tried this, but somebody said if u put them on your hotbar you know what hair/face u will get by useing the pots...
Also it will stop people from using AA to buy hair/face/big head pots. This will mean that the value of AA wil go even lower.
Even if the obove is all 100% false, the cost to buy hair/face pots is not large enoguh to have any kind of impact on the market.
Well said, MrT. It doesn't matter WHAT the event is, people complain about it. Then, a few months later, they refer back to that event as the 'good one' and wish the current event was like the one they complained about!
My theory is that people just like to complain sometimes, perhaps they think that it makes them look wise or something. Good heavens, taking a few seconds to delete items you don't want is trivial, it takes less time to delete the items than it does to complain about it on the forum!
You can rate an event based on how many people complain, or you can rate the event based on what % of people praise vs complain about it.
I've seen 0 praise, 0 thank yous for this event, so I'm guessing the general concesus is either 1) they don't like it, or 2) are totally indifferent about it, or 3) feels the event had potential but fell short in some ways. In either case, the amount of dissatisfieds far surpasses the satisfieds.
I believe there are some redeamable qualities to this event, but there's missing a little something to be worthwhile.
Events can be tailored to the roleplayers: something cute (as in accessories), or can be tailored to power the power gamers: something they can use or sell to finance their gear (l2day scrolls, SAs, lifestones, etc).
By offering only items that can be bought for dirt cheap at the priest/priestess of dawn, you don't satisfy either crowd. If you could turn in the potions to buy other stuff, it'd make sense for roleplaying reasons (dwarves tend to want back what they lost) and you could add either accessories or powerup items in the list of items you can either randomly receive or directly buy with your event points.
Actually, my economic theory was just that: a theory. It was one view on the event that most likely was incorrect.
It was just food for discussion, and you took a great big bite.
Personally, I see people not bothering to use more of the oils and going to the dawn priest to get their hair / face potions, so even there it does take one room's worth of AA out of the market.
Not a major impact for one person, but start multiplying that buy masses. It's a small dent, right? Enough to raise the AA conversion rate? I don't know. Enough to make an impact? Not noticeably, I'm sure. But hey, that was 4800aa that would have otherwise just sat there (if not more) per person.
Here, too, is something to consider. On Lionna, there is an excess of AA on the market, such that conversion rates are down to 2:1 or less.
This event causes you to buy hair / face potions from the Dawn Priest, using (you guessed it) AA. What that does is to help provide an AA sink, that may (I don't know yet if it will) help raise the conversion rate again.
This, in turn, drives the Top D / Enchant Scrolls / Greater Potion market higher (as you can use AA for all of these items).
So... maybe, just maybe the event IS designed to have an economic impact, it's just not readily visible to those who don't know where to look.
Yes because soooooooo many people buy face/hair change pots that its going to make a difference!
When I read that article, I shook my head...because it misses the point completely.
The most succint reply I can give to that article is just a reworking of it's title to match the actual feelings of the people who are complaining. Thus it's not "Biting that hand that feeds you.", it's more like:
The point of the article, Pain, was not to portray it from the feelings of those complaining. A point, unfortunately, I think you missed.
It was best summed up by MrTeedOff:
This is hilarious.
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
What I don't understand is why we don't get a useful event like double XP. As has been mentioned Korea is having a double XP week this week I believe. I quit for 2 chronicles so I may have been gone then but I don't ever recall NA having double XP event ever. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
It would be nice to have double XP. People would be on more because they know they'd get more advancement. It could lead to new friends or enemies depending on hunting grounds. My real question is why do Asian servers get nice events and us North Americans/Euros/Aussies/CNBots get stuck with such a mediocre event.
I however will say nice job for trying. It was close to the other event time frame wise so I wasn't really expecting to much to start with. As I mentioned I enjoyed the Golem event :P. Those that didn't were probably to busy stuck in the catas/necro or friendless.
I think that the whole point of that article is that people just whine instead of giving constructive criticism. Saying "THIS SUCKS MAKE IT BETTER" doesnt help the event team. There are very very few people actually giving suggestions about how this event could have been better.
When Mistryl was still our CM, she posted on this by saying that the developers did not feel a double-XP/SP weekend would fit within the spirit of the game.
I'll try to find the actual post, but that about sums it up.
When I read that article, I shook my head...because it misses the point completely.
The most succint reply I can give to that article is just a reworking of it's title to match the actual feelings of the people who are complaining. Thus it's not "Biting that hand that feeds you.", it's more like:
Biting the hand that BEATS you!
well imo it's ncsoft that is biteing the hand that feeds them. The customer's are paying ncsoft. NCsoft is SUPPOSE to try and make the customers satified. By createing poor events the customers are dissatified. Never forget that people are paying a lot of money to play this game.
1 account for 3 years: $540
1 account for 1.5 years: $270
Purchaseing 2 accounts: $80
Total spent on L2: $890
L2 is an expensive hobby. Customers have a right to expect quality and not crap.
What I don't understand is why we don't get a useful event like double XP. As has been mentioned Korea is having a double XP week this week I believe. I quit for 2 chronicles so I may have been gone then but I don't ever recall NA having double XP event ever. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
The double xp event has been going on since c2 started. I think this idea has been discussed many times and it has always come to the conclusion that this event doesnt fit L2 NA.
paintball gun: 300$
FREAK paintball barrel kit: 260$
OPSGEAR shroud and stock:300$
CO2 20 OZ tank 50-80$
Paint per 2000 raounds 60-150$
Camo fatigues and Viewloader pod-pack 100-300$
thats a low end paintball gun owner. the high end gun owners are 12 000 $ guns with 4000$ accessories. anyone jumping into Paintball will spend 5x PER WEEK what a lineage2 player will spend per 60 days.
lineage2 is a cheap way to play Paintball without getting welted. lineage2 is cheap. fixing cars is expensive. owning a home is expensive.
btw, lineage2 cards and accounts are among the LEAST expensive on the black market.
Im not a complainer, I've never compalined about events before.
This one is more of a tedious annoyance than an event though.
The things that are dropping are simply hair/face/colour change pots with the name changed.... they are exactly the same weight, colour and stackability as the ones from dawn. Theres 20 orso pots to pick up and they easily fill your inventory or make you overweight within minutes and are hard to avoid picking up. They don't even posess any value apart from a slightly amusing change that you probably already saw on the charechter creation screen and didn't like.
I like events and encourage them, but this is no event it's utter trash that makes gameplay horrible as you're constantly deleting things that impede your stats (hp/mp regeneration) and stop quests/fill warehouses.
You obviously haven't left town and gone lvling if you can't see why there are complaints about this junk. It's impractical beyond belief and not fun at all.
When I read that article, I shook my head...because it misses the point completely.
The most succint reply I can give to that article is just a reworking of it's title to match the actual feelings of the people who are complaining. Thus it's not "Biting that hand that feeds you.", it's more like:
Biting the hand that BEATS you!
well imo it's ncsoft that is biteing the hand that feeds them. The customer's are paying ncsoft. NCsoft is SUPPOSE to try and make the customers satified. By createing poor events the customers are dissatified. Never forget that people are paying a lot of money to play this game.
1 account for 3 years: $540
1 account for 1.5 years: $270
Purchaseing 2 accounts: $80
Total spent on L2: $890
L2 is an expensive hobby. Customers have a right to expect quality and not crap.
Let me give you a little senario:
You go into a coffee shop and order a mocha. They give you a mocha. You take a sip and throw the mocha at the server and demand another one. They make you another one. You take a sip and throw it at them again. You then demand that they make you another one and that you want your money back. Now, the only reason you didnt like the mocha to begin with was because it was made with 1% milk instead of whole milk. Since you didnt give them the information to fix it, they had no clue what you were expecting. This is how the L2 community acts.
Guess what... NCsoft doesnt have mind reading machines.
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec.
Oddly enough, your point underlines my argument. In the "5 seconds" (longer actually) that it takes to dump the pots, I could have killed (depending on the toon) MULTIPLE mobs. Dumping the pots are unnecessary clicks and not actions which enhance grind efficiency or increase XP rate.
This event is imposing a negative cost to me, which is the issue. It's like suffering the externalities, without the benefits of production. If the pots had value, I wouldn't complain. At least with the letters events, you could sell the letters. Good luck trying to unload the oils.
Events like this one should have been moderated through an NPC. Sign up and participate at your leisure. Or cancel if you do not wish to participate.
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec.
Oddly enough, your point underlines my argument. In the "5 seconds" (longer actually) that it takes to dump the pots, I could have killed (depending on the toon) MULTIPLE mobs. Dumping the pots are unnecessary clicks and not actions which enhance grind efficiency or increase XP rate.
This event is imposing a negative cost to me, which is the issue. It's like suffering the externalities, without the benefits of production. If the pots had value, I wouldn't complain. At least with the letters events, you could sell the letters. Good luck trying to unload the oils.
Events like this one should have been moderated through an NPC. Sign up and participate at your leisure. Or cancel if you do not wish to participate.
then try the method i employ to regularly pass the time...
I think that the whole point of that article is that people just whine instead of giving constructive criticism. Saying "THIS SUCKS MAKE IT BETTER" doesnt help the event team. There are very very few people actually giving suggestions about how this event could have been better.
If they really need constructive criticism about why this event sucks, they are dumb as bricks.
Take a look at the initial thread the CM posted. Thats what people wanted. (Obviously we knew it woudnt happen but..)
Sex change pots, hair styles from diffrent races, faces from diffrent races, perhaps a temp potion to change you into another race, all that has been suggested.
I mean, you dont need to buy a clue to figure out that this event likely wont please anyone.
Actually dont think that I have ever complained about an event, but I have to agree on this one. The first thing I thought when I found out what the event was all about I was thinking... what Nc thinking about.
Well we can all look on the bright side, with this feedback we wont see this again, this almost make me fell like, when you made bots pick up LOADS of woooden arrows. So they woulld not to be able to pick up there dropes anymore back in the start of L2-
- perhasps that is what NC is doing, trying to steel my loot :D
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec.
Oddly enough, your point underlines my argument. In the "5 seconds" (longer actually) that it takes to dump the pots, I could have killed (depending on the toon) MULTIPLE mobs. Dumping the pots are unnecessary clicks and not actions which enhance grind efficiency or increase XP rate.
This event is imposing a negative cost to me, which is the issue. It's like suffering the externalities, without the benefits of production. If the pots had value, I wouldn't complain. At least with the letters events, you could sell the letters. Good luck trying to unload the oils.
Events like this one should have been moderated through an NPC. Sign up and participate at your leisure. Or cancel if you do not wish to participate.
This is a good argument, Palabras. This is what I like to see. Pointing out specifically what is wrong with the event, rather than just crying and whining about it.
then try the method i employ to regularly pass the time...
STOP EXPING.
No, no, no, I can't stop. My girlfriend comes back to town on Monday and I have to get my Warlock as highly leveled as possible before she returns. No more L2 for awhile when Epic Raid Boss "Queen Bee" returns. ;)
look past the end of your rather short nose, Ashane. those potions would be a drop for what 4 days? after that, there would be no further supply of these items. this makes them LIMITED QTY and VERY RARE when the event is over. not like EAA which can be obtained ad infinitum.
limited qty items in 2 years time could unbalance the economy. just as Chrono weapons are already doing. Chronos are being sold for 30-100m for Citharas. less for c2 and onwards.
wtb permanent face change? get yourself 100m and il sell you mine.
no, this is encouraging bad behaviour and should not occur. so to save aggravation from future posters goin "WTH!! HAIR CHANGES ARE EXPENSIVE!!" they have dumbed the event to the regularly obtainable potions available from dawn.
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec.
Oddly enough, your point underlines my argument. In the "5 seconds" (longer actually) that it takes to dump the pots, I could have killed (depending on the toon) MULTIPLE mobs. Dumping the pots are unnecessary clicks and not actions which enhance grind efficiency or increase XP rate.
This event is imposing a negative cost to me, which is the issue. It's like suffering the externalities, without the benefits of production. If the pots had value, I wouldn't complain. At least with the letters events, you could sell the letters. Good luck trying to unload the oils.
Events like this one should have been moderated through an NPC. Sign up and participate at your leisure. Or cancel if you do not wish to participate.
This is a good argument, Palabras. This is what I like to see. Pointing out specifically what is wrong with the event, rather than just crying and whining about it.
look past the end of your rather short nose, Ashane. those potions would be a drop for what 4 days? after that, there would be no further supply of these items. this makes them LIMITED QTY and VERY RARE when the event is over. not like EAA which can be obtained ad infinitum.
limited qty items in 2 years time could unbalance the economy. just as Chrono weapons are already doing. Chronos are being sold for 30-100m for Citharas. less for c2 and onwards.
wtb permanent face change? get yourself 100m and il sell you mine.
no, this is encouraging bad behaviour and should not occur. so to save aggravation from future posters goin "WTH!! HAIR CHANGES ARE EXPENSIVE!!" they have dumbed the event to the regularly obtainable potions available from dawn.
look past the end of your rather short nose, Ashane. those potions would be a drop for what 4 days? after that, there would be no further supply of these items. this makes them LIMITED QTY and VERY RARE when the event is over. not like EAA which can be obtained ad infinitum.
limited qty items in 2 years time could unbalance the economy. just as Chrono weapons are already doing. Chronos are being sold for 30-100m for Citharas. less for c2 and onwards.
wtb permanent face change? get yourself 100m and il sell you mine.
no, this is encouraging bad behaviour and should not occur. so to save aggravation from future posters goin "WTH!! HAIR CHANGES ARE EXPENSIVE!!" they have dumbed the event to the regularly obtainable potions available from dawn.
i thought those are what you buy from the dawn priest? o,O
When I read that article, I shook my head...because it misses the point completely.
The most succint reply I can give to that article is just a reworking of it's title to match the actual feelings of the people who are complaining. Thus it's not "Biting that hand that feeds you.", it's more like:
Biting the hand that BEATS you!
well imo it's ncsoft that is biteing the hand that feeds them. The customer's are paying ncsoft. NCsoft is SUPPOSE to try and make the customers satified. By createing poor events the customers are dissatified. Never forget that people are paying a lot of money to play this game.
1 account for 3 years: $540
1 account for 1.5 years: $270
Purchaseing 2 accounts: $80
Total spent on L2: $890
L2 is an expensive hobby. Customers have a right to expect quality and not crap.
Let me give you a little senario:
You go into a coffee shop and order a mocha. They give you a mocha. You take a sip and throw the mocha at the server and demand another one. They make you another one. You take a sip and throw it at them again. You then demand that they make you another one and that you want your money back. Now, the only reason you didnt like the mocha to begin with was because it was made with 1% milk instead of whole milk. Since you didnt give them the information to fix it, they had no clue what you were expecting. This is how the L2 community acts.
Guess what... NCsoft doesnt have mind reading machines.
Your analogy is flawed...
It's more like you have been going to the same coffee shop for 3 years and ordering the exact same thing. Then one day you buy the same thing. They make it the same. You are quietly enjoying your cup of coffee when some staff decides to walk over to you while you are drinking your coffee and add cream to your coffee.
Of course you are going to be upset, and there is no reason y you should have to explain why. It doesn't take a genious to figure it out.
So you're saying they shouldn't try to give us events then, HIeverybody?
They should not give us events that hinder the gameplay expierence while adding nothing.
Or else they should ask, "Would you like to try cream in your coffee?"
I mean come on... people were talking about how crappy the event was before it came out. Everybody knew that it would just be hair/face pots, but the new CM was like, "I won't tell it is going to be a suprise!" It wasn't a suprise. It was predicted. What wasn't predicted was the weight of the pots. The frequency of the drops. Or how little they stacked.
I mean all they had to do was make the event like the toi quest. Just get 1 item that weighs zero, and you can open them to see what they are at your convienence. If they would have put ANY thought into the event, there would not be a problem.
So you're saying they shouldn't try to give us events then, HIeverybody?
I think hes saying that maybe they should give us a cookie instead of screwing with our mocha, but hell I dont know, I'm going to the coffee shop now :/
I still cant beleive we are talking about this. Even the people arguing in favor of NCSoft think the event sucks.
Take my monthly fee, go buy someone who isnt a complete moron please.
Yes... its absolutely terrible that you get these items that you can delete in 5 sec. I mean... you can kill a mob in those 5 sec.
Oddly enough, your point underlines my argument. In the "5 seconds" (longer actually) that it takes to dump the pots, I could have killed (depending on the toon) MULTIPLE mobs. Dumping the pots are unnecessary clicks and not actions which enhance grind efficiency or increase XP rate.
This event is imposing a negative cost to me, which is the issue. It's like suffering the externalities, without the benefits of production. If the pots had value, I wouldn't complain. At least with the letters events, you could sell the letters. Good luck trying to unload the oils.
Events like this one should have been moderated through an NPC. Sign up and participate at your leisure. Or cancel if you do not wish to participate.
This is a good argument, Palabras. This is what I like to see. Pointing out specifically what is wrong with the event, rather than just crying and whining about it.
Thank you.
Very true Jkoster I will refrase.
First I think the potions that drop are pretty useless, As stated before we pick the way we wanna have out hair in the start and if we ever wanna change it its easy to go to the Priest.
droping countless of a item that is way overweight and not stackable makes it enoying and not even fun any more.
If they added that it dropes some in my mind usefull stuff like GSAP , Healing pots, ww pots it would make it a nice litle benefit when hunting. And still not a market breaker.
Or as someone suggested made a diffrent hair color for a while. like turning your hair in to pink and you nose red etc. for a period of 2 weeks that would be fun and could bring a laugh or two.
As I said before I still ask my self, what were they thinking.
When I read that article, I shook my head...because it misses the point completely.
The most succint reply I can give to that article is just a reworking of it's title to match the actual feelings of the people who are complaining. Thus it's not "Biting that hand that feeds you.", it's more like:
Biting the hand that BEATS you!
well imo it's ncsoft that is biteing the hand that feeds them. The customer's are paying ncsoft. NCsoft is SUPPOSE to try and make the customers satified. By createing poor events the customers are dissatified. Never forget that people are paying a lot of money to play this game.
1 account for 3 years: $540
1 account for 1.5 years: $270
Purchaseing 2 accounts: $80
Total spent on L2: $890
L2 is an expensive hobby. Customers have a right to expect quality and not crap.
Let me give you a little senario:
You go into a coffee shop and order a mocha. They give you a mocha. You take a sip and throw the mocha at the server and demand another one. They make you another one. You take a sip and throw it at them again. You then demand that they make you another one and that you want your money back. Now, the only reason you didnt like the mocha to begin with was because it was made with 1% milk instead of whole milk. Since you didnt give them the information to fix it, they had no clue what you were expecting. This is how the L2 community acts.
Guess what... NCsoft doesnt have mind reading machines.
Your analogy is flawed...
It's more like you have been going to the same coffee shop for 3 years and ordering the exact same thing. Then one day you buy the same thing. They make it the same. You are quietly enjoying your cup of coffee when some staff decides to walk over to you while you are drinking your coffee and add cream to your coffee.
Of course you are going to be upset, and there is no reason y you should have to explain why. It doesn't take a genious to figure it out.
your analogy is flawed.
You (the L2 community) asked for the cream (the events). They add the cream, and now you decide you dont want it. Maybe they gave you the non-dairy creamer and you wanted half and half or heavy whipping cream or name some other kind of cream.
The point is, you (the L2 community) asked for it. You got it. You threw it in their face and said get me a new one with cream. They do. You take a sip and throw it in their face again, without telling them WHAT is wrong.
Yes this event is pure trash I agree.... But I have to say so far from hearing her thoughts and her background I really have high hopes for our new CM Alyra :)
Quote from our new CM from the L2 Vault interview:
Alyra
"As a community manager, my biggest pet peeve is when a company doesn't listen to its community. I've seen some pretty major blunders made in other MMOs through the years when the game designers decide to go completely against the community's wishes or feedback."
Well we have been pretty ignored and pushed aside for years now, hopefully something, even minor changes now.
It's not 99% something apart form a nuisance though.
Fireworks for instance... a couple of tiems that weigh nothing and DON'T clog your inventory, if they do you can simply spam to use them. If you use these pots the chances are you end up changing the appearence of your toon which in most cases ais unwanted, so you gotta change back. no to mention theres tons of different poots that don't stack with each other and weigh 5 a tme making you heavy!
I've never complained about an event before this one and seriously, are the ones saying this event is good because it's something actually trying to level?
It's prohibiting enjoyable gameplay by clogging things up....
oh great I just criical errored because theres 100+ stupid junk pots lying around me and probably some adena/good drops that I missed because I can't just hit pickup. And that ain't sarcasm it's actually just happened.
You (the L2 community) asked for the cream (the events). They add the cream, and now you decide you dont want it. Maybe they gave you the non-dairy creamer and you wanted half and half or heavy whipping cream or name some other kind of cream.
Nope, we asked for cow cream and we got soy milk. Nobody's particularly happy and those who are allergic to soy milk complain a lot.
You (the L2 community) asked for the cream (the events). They add the cream, and now you decide you dont want it. Maybe they gave you the non-dairy creamer and you wanted half and half or heavy whipping cream or name some other kind of cream.
Nope, we asked for cow cream and we got soy milk. Nobody's particularly happy and those who are allergic to soy milk complain a lot.
And what about those that are alergic to cow cream? Should they always get the shaft?
You (the L2 community) asked for the cream (the events). They add the cream, and now you decide you dont want it. Maybe they gave you the non-dairy creamer and you wanted half and half or heavy whipping cream or name some other kind of cream.
Nope, we asked for cow cream and we got soy milk. Nobody's particularly happy and those who are allergic to soy milk complain a lot.
And what about those that are alergic to cow cream? Should they always get the shaft?
Yes. Because soy cream goes against God. God intended that cream should come from cows, and not from soy or even goats.
This cream is sour, thus spoiling the coffe for all.
As has been explained countless times this 'event' is hindering gameplay with no reward.
If the pots stacked even just in colour to give random syles and weighed nothing, sure it would still be a sucky event, but not hinder gameplay. The way it has been made does and REALLY drags.
I'm still asssuming you're sat in town on a dorf or somethng and not trying to level, if you did you'd understand why people are complaining.
Ppl are moaning cause they cant get rich quick. All ill say about the event is items should be stackabale and maybe have weight reduced to 0. Its event, you can't plz every 1 all of the time. If they are that crap dont pick them up....
Read the posts, chosing what to pick up takes time from levelling and is an extreme hinderence to gameplay. It also makes you lag and critical error when theres a ton of the **** things lying about.
If they are allergic to cow cream and have been going to the same coffee shop getting soy cream every time until now when there is a sudden change which they weren't told about, yes. Or rather, the coffee shop should (and would) have to pay for the doctor's bill. We've already told NC what we want for events. They refused to give it to us.
Across the board most people really want a double xp/sp/drop weekend. Since it is the player's who are saying this, and since we can assume it is the player's who know what they want most, we can safely say that what they want most is a way to reduce the stupidly large experience tables. Who cares what some desginer thinks is the spirit of the game. What ultimately determines the true spirit of aged game's like this are not the designer's, but the actual players who have been with the game for years, actually playing it. The only thing that is truly relevent now is how the player's play the game and why they play the game the way they do. If there are a large number of player's who maintain a second account specifically to buff another character out of party so that they can either level faster or level at all, this is a pretty indication that your experience tables are not what the player's want, and that your mobs take too long to kill for the percent of experience and physical rewards they offer.
In conclusion, NC has 3 year's worth of feedback on all events they've offered under their belt. If they still can't figure out what we want, then something is drastically wrong. If they still continue ot propagate the same problem in each event, again something is wrong. Right now, the error being repeated again and again relates to our very limited inventory space, which thanks to C2 I believe, became even smaller, from 80 to 64 slots. The best quick fix they could add which would make this event less of a hassle, would be to introduce and event inventory to hold event items without taking up important inventory space which already is near bursting when you consider that the 64 item count includes all quest items, shots, potions, armor, weapon, jewelery and all the drops one picks up while hunting.
If these pots did unique things not already possible through the priests, it would have been really fun. Dark hair on elves, light hair on human mystics, etc. Turning in a mob? COOL.
But since it's exactly like mobs dropping priest face/hair/color/big head pots it's gotta be the all time most lame event ever.
In fact if you use the big head pot, when it fades it actually says Mystery Pot wore off or whatever, so its just the same exact thing but a different inv tag name and image. (yes, I stated the obvious right there)
Valentine rings were at least unique. Fireworks were unique and didn't clog up inv. They were still lame.
So saying shut up you bunch of whiners isn't exactly fair, out of all the events ever done, you can easily say hey THIS one was so much fun! Then look at another and say, man this was horrible in comparison.
Across the board most people really want a double xp/sp/drop weekend. Since it is the player's who are saying this, and since we can assume it is the player's who know what they want most, we can safely say that what they want most is a way to reduce the stupidly large experience tables. Who cares what some desginer thinks is the spirit of the game. What ultimately determines the true spirit of aged game's like this are not the designer's, but the actual players who have been with the game for years, actually playing it. The only thing that is truly relevent now is how the player's play the game and why they play the game the way they do. If there are a large number of player's who maintain a second account specifically to buff another character out of party so that they can either level faster or level at all, this is a pretty indication that your experience tables are not what the player's want, and that your mobs take too long to kill for the percent of experience and physical rewards they offer.
BS. I would HATE a double xp event. It IS against the spirit of the game. Would you like to see 2x the number of lvl 76+ coming out of the woodwork when you spent alot of time getting to where you were?
In conclusion, NC has 3 year's worth of feedback on all events they've offered under their belt. If they still can't figure out what we want, then something is drastically wrong. If they still continue ot propagate the same problem in each event, again something is wrong. Right now, the error being repeated again and again relates to our very limited inventory space, which thanks to C2 I believe, became even smaller, from 80 to 64 slots. The best quick fix they could add which would make this event less of a hassle, would be to introduce and event inventory to hold event items without taking up important inventory space which already is near bursting when you consider that the 64 item count includes all quest items, shots, potions, armor, weapon, jewelery and all the drops one picks up while hunting.
64? mine is 80.
3 years of "THIS EVENT SUXORS" is not really considered feedback. I would say that they have like 2 months worth of feedback on events.
Ellis is referring to the god awful implementation of the full inventory quest bug workaround, where you can't do ANYTHING just about unless you are less than 80% of inventory. *well that's my guess anyway*
ie: You cannot change subclass, you cannot continue quests, you cannot port to the rift, can't port in to a festival, etc.
Ellie is right! Those events she listed are great. Also I liked the letter event.
The point is, there is always going to be people who complain, thats because we each like different things. One person thinks an event sucks, the other thinks it is great.
For me, this event if anything, seems really cheap! If they did do something awesome like change my light elf's hair black, and not pink (>.<) a color already available threw normal priest pots, hey that would be cool. If the big head potions were just not normal big head potions, maybe half of them being those huge head things that I seen in pictures, if that picture was real. If the potion would give a sweet effect such as silent step for 2 minutes, or give you a temporary skill for 24 hours. That would be awesome. If there were really rare potions that allowed you to over enchant without the ability to fail your weapon enchant. Or even if you could change into a mob for like 20 minutes or something. THAT WOULD BE A FUN EVENT!!! Something that we players actually would hope to get, who cares if you get something from a drop that you can just buy from a priest. I think the event team needs to get a bit more creative, and if that creativity isn't allowed, whoever oversees you needs to be fired. (harsh I know, but come on!)
Only thing I got from this event is a bad haircut and some pink dye to go with it. The only thing that is keeping me going is the hope that I can get rid of it!!! :mad:
And I guarantee there were people that whined about each one of those events.
So saying shut up you bunch of whiners isn't exactly fair, out of all the events ever done, you can easily say hey THIS one was so much fun! Then look at another and say, man this was horrible in comparison.
Saying "where are our events" "I'm going to quit because we havent had an event" and then saying "this event sucks" "ncsoft sucks" isnt fair either. The people I am telling to stop crying are the ones that are well.... crying. Those giving actual feedback (I dont like this event because...) I dont mind at all. How is saying "THIS SUCKS" helpful to the event team?
Is it me, or is there an insanely simple solution for the whole silly thing?
Make events quest. Want to get the event item, you have to take the quest. Automated players won't be able to simply stock up on whatever the event items are simply by doing nothing out of the ordinary, and players who care can also get the event items. For the rest of us, absolutely nothing changes.
stop this event , and make an event like a one day event where people can "pk" w/o getting karma/pk and no exp loose for who is pked , this would still be better .
Is it me, or is there an insanely simple solution for the whole silly thing?
Make events quest. Want to get the event item, you have to take the quest. Automated players won't be able to simply stock up on whatever the event items are simply by doing nothing out of the ordinary, and players who care can also get the event items. For the rest of us, absolutely nothing changes.
Can we stop with the bad cream posts now?
Actually... you just gave me an idea. I will have to find a bot group when I get home. hehehe free mats for me.
Right, saying "this event sucks" and leaving it at that isn't very helpful. But at least NCsoft knows that maybe they shouldn't recycle the event at a later time.
It is good we whine! We want NCsoft to know what we like and don't like. It is our right as a customer, and NCsoft should be grateful that we actually do it so that they can create a better game.
Obviously people should explain why they don't like the event, or what could be changed about it but I think almost any feed back is better than none, but constructive feedback is the most effective.
See the thing I don't understand is, people really wanted more customizable appearances. This event could have really done something about it, if it gave us new hair colors, styles, faces! And if you didn't like your new face, well restore your old one with the priest. Sure that would require the developers to create the new colors and faces and write them into code, but at least it would seem like they care enough to do so. If they can make christmas trees, santa hats, and faerie antenna, they can do that!!!
One of the things that Mistryl used to do, and something I hope Alyra picks up, is the Event closing polls.
That actually allowed the event team to see the feedback quantified. So, if you want to make sure your voice is heard, give them something to listen to.
The louder you whine, the more they tune out. Speak calmly, speak clearly, and with reason and you will be listened to. That's the point I've been trying to make this whole time.
Right, saying "this event sucks" and leaving it at that isn't very helpful.
Your post sucked.
Now that you know that it sucked, you can examine the post and determine why it sucked. It's not my job to examine your posts and point out all of the suckyness. If you don't want your posts to suck, you will examine them. If you don't care, just keep letting them suck.
anyone on Erica wanna buy the chrono stuff from cithra to whatever the last one was in c4? ^^ 200mil for the bunch!
Why doesn't double XP/SP work for the NA crowd? I don't understand....Lineage 1 NA has double exp sometimes. If there's a good reason it wouldn't work for us I'd really like to hear it...
Why doesn't double XP/SP work for the NA crowd? I don't understand....Lineage 1 NA has double exp sometimes. If there's a good reason it wouldn't work for us I'd really like to hear it...
Lets say you are 80/80/80. Its not likely, but possible. Then you give a double xp week and all of a sudden there are 5 more people who are 80/80/80. New chronicle (throne) comes out. lvl cap is now increased to lvl 84. That lead that you had on those other 5 people has now totally been destroyed.
People who started before c2 will probably understand this alot more than those who started in c2 or after. C1 xp was probably less than half that of c2.
It's fine to disagree with a decision made by the publisher, it's fine to want to express that passionately, but some of you have all the tact and intelligence of a seven year old when expressing it. I mean, I know internet anonymity makes it easy to be as rude as possible, that doesn't mean people should take advantage of it at every opportunity.
Let's pretend we're adults. This event, on the scale of events that have no real economic impact, leaves much to be desired. There are plenty of items that could have been offered instead, if I wanted to change my hairstyle I could easily buy or craft the necessary potion. I still have most of my hair/face potions that were given to us in C2, and they're just not changes that are needed frequently once players settle on a look for their character. Korea has had plenty of Interlude events with rewards that are beneficial/interesting, which would make excellent blueprints for future events on our servers.
This event would at least be slightly more interesting if it contained whatever item (a potion?) enlarges the heads of the game's monsters. That's new to us, so it would at least be a neat little distraction. Couple that with a sex change potion that we heard about however long ago, and you've got at least two interesting rewards.
Look at that, feedback and a suggestion. And I didn't have to act like a pre-pubescent ****** to express it.
Lets say you are 80/80/80. Its not likely, but possible. Then you give a double xp week and all of a sudden there are 5 more people who are 80/80/80. New chronicle (throne) comes out. lvl cap is now increased to lvl 84. That lead that you had on those other 5 people has now totally been destroyed.
People who started before c2 will probably understand this alot more than those who started in c2 or after. C1 xp was probably less than half that of c2.
If you started in Prelude/etc, you've already lost all lead anyway.
Remember the grind in DVC? Hell that was the ONLY place we could go! An now? The exp is light years better there. (Yes its more exp per mob, I still got some old DVC SS's heh)
Should we all whine, moan, and complain to reduce the exp? Of course not.
Every chronicle it gets easier and easier to level up, for others to catch up to the old blood. Otherwise there woudnt be new blood.
If Korea and China (so far) have had X2 XP Events, I fail to see why we cant in the NA. Of course, heaven forbid we actually get what we ask for, apparently thats not reserved for us.
If Korea and China (so far) have had X2 XP Events, I fail to see why we cant in the NA. Of course, heaven forbid we actually get what we ask for, apparently thats not reserved for us.
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt there. When have we ever had events that run simultaneously alongside Korea's? If by the time the first Throne rolls around and we still haven't had one, then I'll be disappointed.
I can't think of any good reason to deprive us of such an event though, if Korea is getting one.
LOL. Your whole post was worth reading just for those 2 sentences.
North America does not have a team that has the capability to do these things. NA does not create textures, meshes or objects. I don't know how many times we've gone over this on these boards.
NCSoft-NA DOES NOT CREATE CONTENT!
... unless our new CM brought her own Dev Team with her. We've repeatedly been told that content is created in Korea. I'm pretty sure that no Korean hands touched this event, and Here's why:
Truly new hairstyles and faces... ie, black hair on an Elf, a pink afro on your orc, a mohawk in 5 colours on your dwarf, etc. etc. etc... require the work of the dev team in Korea to create that content, test it, and then send it to the NetOps Team to upload to the servers, we all patch it to the client, and it appears in the game.
This event requires a mere fraction of that work. The potions are already in the game, they have their ItemID code already implemented. The drop tables are already implemented, it's very easy for some DBA to add a range of values to drop tables across the board to put these potions on it.
Using previously-released content in a new way is Event Implementation 101.
Additionally, don't forget that there is another hand involved in bringing L2 to NA/Europe:E&G, or Endeavour & Guts. Who they are and what role they take in the distribution of our L2 client I am not certain... but they are the ones who have stated that a X2 XP/SP/Drops event is "inappropriate" for the NA market.
Yeah, I know that NA doesn't do the meshes, and Korea does. The point is, maybe Korea should implement it.
I can figure that NCSoft NA does the best they can do with their given resources. And I am sure that they do talk to Korea about what we want. That is why I am talking about it here. If I could go post on the Korean forum I would.
I would like to keep the conversations civil, but I will grill ******s.
Grill? Plz
If players played in NA played this game, NAMED L2, made for Koreans and for their culture, maybe there wouldn't be so much Whining/Bytching!
Grill? Plz
If players played in NA played this game, NAMED L2, made for Koreans and for their culture, maybe there wouldn't be so much Whining/Bytching!
Got Rice?
You already live over there, play over there. Good riddance to the trash.
Grill? Yes... And no, it is more fun to see peoples reactions. LOL, better than pink hair anyway.
I am pretty sure NCsoft's vision is to become an international business that supplies games to people all over the world. I suspect they have not abandoned that vision. I suppose it is because of internal difficulties on tieing these different world regions together to make a 'universal' game concept. If it was made for Koreans, we shouldn't have our own servers.
Could be wrong, but I am almost positive that is something that a worker at NCsoft said in an interview.
I enjoy criticism, it makes things better. Only a few can't handle it, and then they don't deserve to be the best. The best things in life have suffered the greatest criticisms. So far, in "almost" all my posts I feel I have added constructive criticism, although not always nice, it is how I feel and is true for me. If you don't like it tough...then block my posts.
Grill? Yes... And no, it is more fun to see peoples reactions. LOL, better than pink hair anyway.
I am pretty sure NCsoft's vision is to become an international business that supplies games to people all over the world. I suspect they have not abandoned that vision. I suppose it is because of internal difficulties on tieing these different world regions together to make a 'universal' game concept. If it was made for Koreans, we shouldn't have our own servers.
Could be wrong, but I am almost positive that is something that a worker at NCsoft said in an interview.
I enjoy criticism, it makes things better. Only a few can't handle it, and then they don't deserve to be the best. The best things in life have suffered the greatest criticisms. So far, in "almost" all myposts I feel I have added constructive criticism, although not always nice, it is how I feel and is true for me. If you don't like it tough...
Yeah, tough... enjoy it... You know what the hell is coming... If not oh well...
f you started in Prelude/etc, you've already lost all lead anyway.
Remember the grind in DVC? Hell that was the ONLY place we could go! An now? The exp is light years better there. (Yes its more exp per mob, I still got some old DVC SS's heh)
Does every one of your post have to be about prelude, or what happened 2 years ago?
Besides, I know this event could of been better, but I'm happy to get something I could sell in a few weeks and make some doe.
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Maybe I was just dreaming, but according to this forum, the last event was really appreciated. But maybe saying an event is great is whining too...
No idea what you're talking about. But yeah, Expressing an opinion is whining. They whine, you whine about them whining, I whine about you whining about them... blah blah blah...
Then you admit the current event is useless and you stop posting your theory "just for the principle".
1) everyone whines about not having events.
2) NC gives us events.
3) everyone whines because they dont like what they get.
4) event ends.
5) everyone whines.
6) NC gives us another event.
7) everyone whines again.
waaah waaaah boohoo QQ
Maybe I was just dreaming, but according to this forum, the last event was really appreciated. But maybe saying an event is great is whining too...
No idea what you're talking about. But yeah, Expressing an opinion is whining. They whine, you whine about them whining, I whine about you whining about them... blah blah blah...
Then you admit the current event is useless and you stop posting your theory "just for the principle".
Ty, that hits on the main problem. People are being severly general in here. Yes, there will always be someone complaining. When you have a game with thousands upon thousands of players. Chances are what pleases some, will not please others.
But some players in here thing that just because there is any complaint at all, it makes all of us undeserving of NCs "charity".
Or they think that there is one coherent group of people who complain consistantly. This is not the case. There is no group of whiners. Every single one of us (excluding perhaps MrTeed and others) at some point feel the need to complain about the service we get from NC. Be it an event, and update, or general managing of the game. And although I would agree we could often be more constructive, we all whine, or we just whine about the people who whine, as Washtak pointed out.
Why doesn't double XP/SP work for the NA crowd? I don't understand....Lineage 1 NA has double exp sometimes. If there's a good reason it wouldn't work for us I'd really like to hear it...
Lets say you are 80/80/80. Its not likely, but possible. Then you give a double xp week and all of a sudden there are 5 more people who are 80/80/80. New chronicle (throne) comes out. lvl cap is now increased to lvl 84. That lead that you had on those other 5 people has now totally been destroyed.
People who started before c2 will probably understand this alot more than those who started in c2 or after. C1 xp was probably less than half that of c2.
You are using some very flawed logic. Unless you are actually level 80/80/80, you will only gain by having a double epxerience event, no matter who you are. How is this you might ask? It is rather easy. Because everyone during this time will have the same doubled rate, the rate of progression of one character in comparison to another will increase or decrease in the same proportion regardless of the rate. If someone levels faster than you at 2x, they will still level faster than you at 1x in the same proportion. 100/50=2=200/100
An easier example. Suppose the government decides to change from dollars to red dollars, at a rate of 1 dollar per 2 red dollars. You gather up all your dollars, bring them down to the bank and receive two red dollars for each of your dollars. Are you now two times richer? Of course not.
Looking at just the statistics published by NC, there are exactly 33 characters who reached level 80 worldwide. That is a very very small number when you consider the total number of player's and accounts. The likelihood that a double exp weekend negatively effects any given player is very small, and even when it does, they still earn exp. If you have been playing since Prelude, you would know that even when a character reaches the level cap, they still earn experience (albeit at a reduced rate but when we are talking about needing more than 3 billion experience to reach that next level at 20,000 experience per kill, 48 hours of double experience isn't going to be making a large dent in there, especially coupled with the miniscule number of characters who are level 80) which they see after the level cap is raised. And if the idea of only getting a smaller percentage of hidden experience into your next level is too daunting for you a level 80 at 100%, the devs could revert the system to giving you full hidden experience for the duration of the event.
Therefore I can rest assured that a double experience event will in no size shape or form have actual effect on level gaps which time would not have changed itself. The number of people at level 80 and 100% is a tiny proportion of the total playerbase (33 out of several million worldwide) and equally changing a leveling rate for all player's prevents the rates at which one player levels in comparision to another from changing. So long as they each face the same rate, they each maintain the same proportion.
Teed and Ash's arguments against a double experience event are both false, since they both failed to take into the underlying math and mechanics. All a double exp event does is allow you to earn two day's of your own experience in one day.
A doulbe experience day would have the same exact result as a weekend. When someone ends up higher in level than you after one double exp day, they would have ended up higher in level than you after two normal days by exactly as much in either situation.
I'm 100% certain there is no 80/80/80. And even if there were, I'm even more certain none of them are at 100% within their 80. So anyone would benefit from a double exp event, or at least those who are able to participate and not away on vacation or what not those few days.
That's not to say I'd personally be for a double exp event, but if it did happen, nobody'd be losing anything.
I have made a suggestion a while back, I suppose I could repost it.
-----------
Suggestion: Please make a toggle option to whether participate in an event or not.
Suggestion: Please change the PickUP Botton so you can selectively decide what items to pick or not.
-----------
There, is that 'constructive' enough for you?
Heck, I'll even repost it in the Suggestion forums again.
actually, given the unpredictable nature of the non-hardcore gamer, a Double experience event would require such a player to actually play and not sit in giran selling DSS.
but even double exp wouldnt motivate me to get out out of giran.
That's ok Spudnik, you're hopefully not the clientèle that NCSoft will be aiming to please when it comes to event. You are not an active player, you pay 15$/month to post in the forums and that's it. So unless there's a FORUM EVENT, that counts you out.
If you're too lazy to leave town anyways this should automatically disqualify your opinion on anything that goes on outside of town. Leave out of town event planning to people who, well, leave town.
To NCsoft: Thank you for taking the time to provide an event for us.
lol, you'll take any junk you get fed won't you.
Thanks for the 5 minutes you took to 'organise' this 'event' that you announced about a day or two before it happened, with so much effort (re-labelling potions) and consideration.
/sarcasm off.
How about you get your 5 minutes work back to do something usefull and take the 5 minutes per buffround I spend deleting this junk from me and my buffer back while you're at it.
I think they went for a 2x XP event, but got it wrong and made this one... a 3/4 XP event through all the time spent deeleting worthless junk.
Oh and not to mention a - adena event when people have to spend adena to change their toons back how they like them from dawn priests.
Suggestion: Please make a toggle option to whether participate in an event or not.
Suggestion: Please change the PickUP Botton so you can selectively decide what items to pick or not.
The latter would be cool... with options for adena, drops (mats/full items), event items and herbs. :p
PS: I had fun changing my orcy's hair around. It's not a fantastic event, but as I said elsewhere - have no hope and you won't be disappointed. It's nice the same way seeing a funny cloud is nice, except maybe that the funny cloud is less predictable.
At least it doesn't [censored] anyone over, that's always a plus. If you don't want to store them, just use them.
At least it doesn't [censored] anyone over, that's always a plus. If you don't want to store them, just use them.
it does [censored] people over though, 80/80 inv and overweight in not so much time isn't nice. I suppose I could carry less supplies and run to town every 5 mins.... or just simply no go out soloing.
Or you could use them until the end of the event and then buy the reset ones from the priests - that's 100k adena tops, and that's only if you don't want to figure out which ones are the ones you need to reset and keep a set of those.
On the other hand, many regular events cost manorers millions in potential revenue as they generally make the market keel over hard - same for people who make their money dealing with scrolls.
Oh noes, mats prices might go lower for a week orso and 1/120th of the population lose out because they can't extort people for money from the manor for a short period of time.
and as for people who deal with scrolls....... they gotta come from somewhere.....
I played a lot the scrolls market and scroll events are the best thing that can happen. While you're for a few weeks that you can't sell scrolls at ridiculously high prices, it means you can restock on scrolls at cheap prices. So if emp scrolls drop to like 200-300k, you stock up on a ton so you can resell them at 1.5m-3m on the long run.
Scrolls mostly come from Mammon - except they don't during events, because they generally drive the price down so low that buying with AA becomes unworthwhile.
And nobody can "extort" money from people for mats - everyone can easily manor themselves if they so choose.
The prices also usually take two to three months to recover after a 'big' event rather than 'a week'.
Scrolls on which real money can be made only come from events (i.e. empower scrolls and other buff scrolls that aren't covered by pots and are wanted by fotm classes).
And a week is all it takes for the market to become "normal". Not overpriced and not underpriced. So if you stock up very early after the event when scrolls are insanely cheap, you can sell them next week and doubble or tripple what you invested. At least on erica, I can guarantee that any emp scroll that is being sold for less than 1m will be bought within the first week by speculators who will later sell them for 1.5-3m. If your server doesn't have any speculators and the prices stay low for months, that means it'd be even easier to make a quick buck on your server, so get to work and buy out all the cheap scrolls :)
Those who make money off haste/ww/brez/bsoe scrolls and pots will definitely make less money for a little while - on the other hand they can get supplies for much cheaper themselves, so it kind of balances out for them.
That's ok Spudnik, you're hopefully not the clientèle that NCSoft will be aiming to please when it comes to event. You are not an active player, you pay 15$/month to post in the forums and that's it. So unless there's a FORUM EVENT, that counts you out.
If you're too lazy to leave town anyways this should automatically disqualify your opinion on anything that goes on outside of town. Leave out of town event planning to people who, well, leave town.
another noob with a nose too short.
WAKE UP!
I - NOT YOU - am the people going out to tell people about lineage2 and bring them to play this game. casual, yes. useless, no.
unless you want a TOTALLY stagnant game i suggest you get your own **** butt out there and find people. or were you happy siegeing the same people over and over. teaching NOBODY the ways of your toon? griping and whining and BSOEing from the same people over and over.
tell you what - next time theres an event, or an update, ill sit on my butt and play the game instead of go find people in other circles and walks of life to play the game. perhaps youll see how much *I* do for this game on my own time, without pay nor compensation. and for what? i come here to be flamed for my low level?
ignorance sure must be bliss. go pickle yourself in S shots, ******. CASUAL PLAYERS PROVEIDE GREATER WORD OF MOUTH THAN YOU DO!
So, uhm, Spudnik, what's your big marketing scheme and how many 100s of players should we be thankful that you brought to the game? (And how many of those actually stayed?)
Do you go along saying how great the towns in the game looks and welcome them to come do some town-sitting with ya?
But seriously, if you're not gonna leave town, what you think about an event that goes out of town is irrelevent, because it doesn't apply to you. Just as much as I should have no say on what goes on in (insert any random competing MMO here) since I don't play that MMO.
If you really bring people to the game, Kudos on that, but us people that do actually leave town create a reason for players to enjoy the game. We make sieges happen, we make raids happen, we mentor people and answer their zillions of questions on skills, game mechanics, quests and what not.
I have no idea where that holier-than-thou attitude of your's comes from, but town-sitters get as much respect from me as bots. Carebears that actually play the game are fine, though. I have some 77+ friends who play good pvp classes and have less than 5 pvp points and that's quite allright. At least they play the game.
ive never once heard of l2 doing "marketing" outside the "free account trials" and 1 advertisement on the back of a pcgaming magazine or something in the past year and a half, and even before that they really only used hype and word of mouth for marketing.
You going for a job at ncsoft defending them in every single respect even their "brilliant events"
I would rather see what their aggressive and efficient ad campaigns involve, instead of hearing someone say that, just ive hardly ever seen advertisements apart from the ones they advertise with trial accounts, which bring in very few real players compared to the amount of... non players
And just based on some things I've seen I think we'll be seeing some of those marketing decisions soon. I can't go into too much detail, as I don't have too much detail to go into, but I think we'll see something soon.
I hope it's a greater storefront display presence, personally.
I know that they had fairly wide-spread banner ads on all kinds of websites at the launch of C3 - that's what brought me back to the game at the time (I'd forgotten about it as an option).
As for the whole "who matters more" debate? Usually that's easy to answer - the existance of casuals matters more to casuals, who could care less about what the 'big' guys do, and the existance of big clans is either a hindrance or an incentive for those who want to play competitively. Both are certainly required.
Hopefully they'll run more ad campaigns with the arrival of kameal. It'd make alot of sence... new race, lots of people making noob kamael, others making academy toons, improvements to starter bonuses....
Might actually help to get some new people involved in the game instead of pronouncing it dead and giving it a good burial.
So, uhm, Spudnik, what's your big marketing scheme and how many 100s of players should we be thankful that you brought to the game? (And how many of those actually stayed?)
Do you go along saying how great the towns in the game looks and welcome them to come do some town-sitting with ya?
But seriously, if you're not gonna leave town, what you think about an event that goes out of town is irrelevent, because it doesn't apply to you. Just as much as I should have no say on what goes on in (insert any random competing MMO here) since I don't play that MMO.
If you really bring people to the game, Kudos on that, but us people that do actually leave town create a reason for players to enjoy the game. We make sieges happen, we make raids happen, we mentor people and answer their zillions of questions on skills, game mechanics, quests and what not.
I have no idea where that holier-than-thou attitude of your's comes from, but town-sitters get as much respect from me as bots. Carebears that actually play the game are fine, though. I have some 77+ friends who play good pvp classes and have less than 5 pvp points and that's quite allright. At least they play the game.
heh, i thought sieges happened with or without players.
strange how that works.
youre a participant in a siege. you do not make the sioege, nor do you "Create" "Fun" anywhere. you are a participant. heres your ribbon.
i have some Under 40 friends (more than one) that have been playing longer than you and your whole clan have been.
if it werent for the people like myself, youd have nobody to "Create" "Fun" for. so get out of my town, and participate in whatever siege you happen to think is fun. i personally dont find sieging fun so i am going to sit in town on my duff, which i find more fun.
"PLAYING THE GAME" is not restricted to being out of town and PVE/PVPing.
let me put it this way, i havnt ever seen it for sale in australia ever which is just crap, their not even offering coverage for NA market etc =/ i get guild wars, coh, cov, everquest, eq2... everything, but no l2 at eb games and stuff ive been to
I always see a copy or two of L2 in a shelf spot with the other MMORPGs here in Germany - although not in game stores, but rather in large places like Mega Company, Saturn and Media Markt (i.e. those who also carry washing machines, tellies, etc.).
heh, i thought sieges happened with or without players.
They only happen if players register for them, else they're cancelled. And if players who get out of town hadn't done what we did in the past, you'd still need a pretty big army to take the castles away from NPCs.
youre a participant in a siege. you do not make the sioege, nor do you "Create" "Fun" anywhere. you are a participant. heres your ribbon.
I create fun by showing up at sieges, encouraging people to raid and making fun parties that aren't always optimal. I may not have created the game, but I give the opportunity to people to fully explore what the game has to offer.
i have some Under 40 friends (more than one) that have been playing longer than you and your whole clan have been.
Roflmao. I mean seriously. I've been playing on Erica since the day it was created. I've been playing l2 since about 2-3 days after open beta started. AT BEST your level 40 friends have MAYBE a week more of playtime.
if it werent for the people like myself, youd have nobody to "Create" "Fun" for. so get out of my town, and participate in whatever siege you happen to think is fun. i personally dont find sieging fun so i am going to sit in town on my duff, which i find more fun.
I don't create siege/raid/pve events for people who don't get out of town, so your presence on my server, unless I happen to buy something from your shop, is irrelevant. You're about as important to 95% of the l2 community as a NPC shop.
Same goes with the hide & seek events I host on PTS. You'd probably have like 1% chance of finding me because the hints I give are mostly a "if you'd been here, you'd know" and you haven't been to most places I went.
"PLAYING THE GAME" is not restricted to being out of town and PVE/PVPing.
I'll grant that there is a RP dimension to L2 and I'm the first to participate when a server I'm on has such an event. I've been to all the PTS wishing wells and the very few non-pvp/pve events of erica. I also was clan leader of a RP clan which had 15 active players at one point.
What annoys me about you is you explore a very tiny portion of L2 and expect everything to be taylored for your kind of playstyle. L2 is a hardcore game, not a lets sit in town and be merry game. Let the rest of us have our hardcore game like it was designed to be, but if you can't fit in well in such a game, there's no point writing about 10-15 flames a day and bashing every two suggestions with "it will help farmers and botters more than town-sitters".
Can we get over the idea that L2 is hardcore? It's not, and hasn't been for a very long time, if it ever was.... well, OK, Open Beta was hard core because the bots didn't have the adena stockpile to sell anymore, so everyone who had cool stuff back then got it on their own.
Hardcore? No one drops anything. Hardcore? It gets easier and easier to level. Hardcore? Almost every PvP engagement is over in seconds. You can all but guarantee who will win and who will die before the first shot is fired. Hardcore? It's almost always been useless to be a perma-red character. Hardcore? Mobs behave in bland, predictable patterns. with zombie-like AI, and raid bosses are formulaic. You can, literally, sleep your way to endgame.
This game is about as hardcore as a Go tournament.
i dont mind being a 1%, but what i do mind is when the 99 others decide i am irrelevant.
sit in town for a day, katastrophe. youll be a non-factor for the day too.
/agree with wardancer. i am just as hardcore as any other player in this game. i dont drop gear, i value my level, and ill pvp the hell out of whoever calls me out.
buy you nor any other high level clan CANNOT dictate to me what is fun, nor can you ever pretend to know the major population deems fun. PVP is 1% of the game, just like town sitting.
i dont care if you own rune castle goddard castle, hotsprings CH and aden castle. YOU do not matter to ME. this puts YOU in the 1%.
*sigh* I should've remembered this golden rule before: Never argue with a fool, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
IF you learn how logic works, Spudnik, I'll be glad to continue discussing with you, but I won't waste more time thinking of logical arguments that are just gonna get lost on you anyways.
because logically, you just being at the siege makes it fun.
logically, because I CHOSE to sit on my rear for the duration of the event, i have no opinion worth discussing.
your logic is lunacy.
and no, the foolish run when they are not being pursued. the simple pass on and are punished.
what we are discussing is not merely "is an event with hair potions better than a medal event?", what it has snowballed into is "are the low level giran sitting people that choose to sit the event out worth listening to?"
apparently, you seem to think that only the 7x gotta-play-everyday-play-the-events-and-nab-a-billion-adena players are the only ones with valid opinions.
around here EVERYONE's opinion matters and counts. regardless if you are level 1 or level 80 thrice over. YOUR OPINION MATTERS.
so logically (if you understand that sort of thing) this argument has turned into a Tomato/Tomato argument. a half-full/half-empty secnario. our opinions are weighted the same. just because you are 75 and i am barely 40 it doesnt mean you get 90% of the voice, and i get 10. hardly the other way around either.
LEVELS DO NOT MATTER.
let me give you an apt argument that a good friend gave me.
i pay taxes, just as you do. well my taxes are among the top 20% of the US who pay over the 1m$ per year. should i get to decide who becomes the president more than you? far from it. my vote gets as much weight as yours.
get off your high horse and realise you are not the one dictating what is good and what is not. your level has no voice. your power of speech and control of word does.
some people like the event, some do not. the sound of mind having seen the stories of others, have decided before the event that they would sit it out in giran. this includes most of my clan, and 3/4 of my server. today, those that find sieging fun regardless of who is there and who is not, will siege instead of pve.
and i do imagine that without you, the opposing side might have more fun. please remember who you are NOT fooling. when you siege and you win, your side had fun. when you siege and loose, you whine and complain (HAX BOTS LAWL BSOE BREZ!). dont even pretend this is a wrong view.
A level 1 who left town and killed 10 elpies does have a worthy opinion. Someone who claims they aren't going to leave town event or not is as irrelevant as someone who doesn't play the game. I don't care at what rate people play the game, so long as they regularly leave town and take advantage of either the PvE or the PvP component of the game.
And most of the things you accuse me of I don't do, which is what I find most ridiculous and why I call you a fool. I am gracious in winning and gracious in defeat. When I lose a castle, I WILL say gf to my opponents. When I get pked, I say gf. When my anchor lands, I say "yay, lucky anchor! ^^" and actually mean it. I BSoE, I BREZ and I'm not an hypocrit who'll call out people because they do it. I'll call out an hypocrit who BSoEs often when he laughs at someone BSoEing, but that's about it. I'm part of an underdog alliance, I'm not s-grade, we don't own a castle, we don't own a CH, we PvP daily with full 4% loss, raid every few days, go to sieges and have a great time together.
pve is prob 30% of the game, pvp is 50% and 20% is making money/gear/clan stuff.
for me atm 90% of pvp, 8% clan, 2% pve (thats killing mobs while looking for people in pvp areas) being 78 on my hawkeye is all i need why would i continue to exp lol
It's like a cyclist complaining about traffic wardens boking cars he sees in the sreet.
To earn respect from giving opinions on something you have to use that system and have knowledge of it.
If a part of the game affects you (IE you actually leave town and get event drops) then you havemore than a fair right to comment on it.
If you've never been affected by something you don't have any right to comment on it as you don't know it personally and can only talk from assumptions.
"Drugs make everyone want to steal, I know this because I saw it on TV!!!!"
It's like a cyclist complaining about traffic wardens boking cars he sees in the sreet.
To earn respect from giving opinions on something you have to use that system and have knowledge of it.
If a part of the game affects you (IE you actually leave town and get event drops) then you havemore than a fair right to comment on it.
If you've never been affected by something you don't have any right to comment on it as you don't know it personally and can only talk from assumptions.
"Drugs make everyone want to steal, I know this because I saw it on TV!!!!"
if that was in any way true, nobody would have the freedom to say whatever they pleased, however they wanted and to whomever is present at the time.
nobody could debate the president of any country.
i have the right to say as much as you have the right to say. not based on anything more than you and i are a customer of the same company. you happen to play more than i do.
This event is great! Just use the first pots you get, and then spend the rest of the event trying to get back to normal!
But seriously, events like piece of Heart are fun, and productive. Also, i like the idea of towns / castles getting taken over by an invading army someone mentioned recently, that would be a blast.
My Scav had a frown and a green/yellow dye streak down the middle of his hair. Now he's all grey/white and has a blank expression !
As has been said, its just some light hearted fun. It's quite tempting to click another pot to see what it does. I've had 3 fat heads so far :P
You have the right to debate about any president in which you bothered to show up at the voting booth. If you didn't vote, you failed to your civic duty and are lucky not to get deported, let alone have any of your rights respected. Just as bad as people who go hide when they get drafted, those who shoot back at police officers, etc.
You have the right to debate about any president in which you bothered to show up at the voting booth. If you didn't vote, you failed to your civic duty and are lucky not to get deported, let alone have any of your rights respected. Just as bad as people who go hide when they get drafted, those who shoot back at police officers, etc.
exactly. the voters just happen to come here and voice the voice of negativity. we know this isnt the true representation of the populus of the game.
this is a pvp game, if u want pve or to sit in town or make money go play everquest or second life.
PVP is a feature of the game. If it was just pvp then there would be no quests designed around PVE, there would be no pets for leveling, no levels, and no gears that have to be crafted. If it was purely pvp then you just login, choose your gear, and go start killing like in some other games. Also not all of us are farmers and afk levelers.
If you didn't vote, you failed to your civic duty and are lucky not to get deported, let alone have any of your rights respected. Just as bad as people who go hide when they get drafted, those who shoot back at police officers,
You're not seriously comparing participation in a video game to voluntary (or not) involvement in national politics, are you?
You have the right to debate about any president in which you bothered to show up at the voting booth. If you didn't vote, you failed to your civic duty and are lucky not to get deported, let alone have any of your rights respected. Just as bad as people who go hide when they get drafted, those who shoot back at police officers, etc.
If we followed your flawed logic, you could only debate about the presidential candidates after one was already elected and in office, by then it would be too late.
Just because something does not effect someone, does not mean they don't have any relevant information to share with someone who is making a decision that will affect them. I didn't vote last election because I hated both candidates equally and felt neither should be president, believing both would do an equally bad job if elected. Am I now disallowed from saying Bush is a president after he is elected because I didn't vote, even though I said he was a bad president and hence did not vote for him earlier?
The draft thing is another hot topic. There is a difference between Vietnam and World War 2, both of scale and reason. A World War 2 draft dodger is one thing, and a vietname draft dodger another, in the former case you were dodging a draft for a war that would eventually have reached US shores, but in the latter was an exclusive foreign war with no threat to US soil. I have no problem with someone dodging the Vietname draft on moral or cowardly grounds, they didn't want to die for a war that wouldn't have come to harm the US even if it didn't participate, there is nothing wrong with that.
For those of you who don't know how the modern democracy works, the voting citizens vote for what they believe is the best course of action for their state/country. While they vote, they also become obligated to follow what their fellow state/country citizens voted for.
If your country decides to go to war, and decides to draft it's citizens to wage that war, tough nougies. If your number comes up, depending how "open" your country is, you may have the option to exile yourself to dodge the draft or become an illegal alien and try to hide.
In some cases, after the war, some presidents decided to give a pardon to everyone who dodged the draft, but if he really wanted to, he'd be entitled to send every draft dodger to jail or deport them.
If your country passes a law such as the draft that you don't agree at all with, your two recourses are to either have the law changed or leave the country.
So no, strictly speaking, there is no difference to dodging the draft for vietnam and WW2. You can object to the legitimity of the war, but if it has been voted that your country goes to war, then your country goes to war. And if it has been voted that you are to assist in the war efforts, too bad for you, pack your stuff and get ready to go wherever your country sends you, because it's the people of the country who are sending you there.
If you are willing to break that agreement that was made the day your country became a democracy, your word is not to be trusted.
I will end this debate here, because there is really no way this debate can end in friendly terms - and is the reason so many revolutions and revolts took place over the globe over the years.
the low levels vs the high levels and the power of the voice.
there are low levels who choose this path, there are low levels who cannot legitimatly gain high levels, and there are low levels that have high level alts.
there are high levels that cheat, and there are high levels who are *******. there are high levels who play fair at sieges, and others who would sooner be red than have anyone on the siege field except them.
the war between high and low levels clearly cannot be fought with arms. so the low levels that can, often run. (draft dodge etc).
if youre telling me that the only way to fight the ubers is by becoming one, well, youre bottlenecking most of the low levels into illegitimate conduct.
in essence, become the president to avoid the draft.
For those of you who don't know how the modern democracy works, the voting citizens vote for what they believe is the best course of action for their state/country. While they vote, they also become obligated to follow what their fellow state/country citizens voted for.
Probably best you stopped right there, because what follows indicates that you don't understand the simplest of Realpolitik.
Actually Kata you are wrong in terms of the draft. If you can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that you find any type of violence morally appalling in a dangerous way, you can avoid being sent to war, though you cannot avoid the actual drafting process, just the going to war part. Yet this too has changed.
Initially, at least within the US, the first such collective government under the Articles of Confederation had no power to raise an army, only to order states to do so. The later constitution eventually did have a provision for drafting soldiers, but this provision allowed one to pay a fee to avoid going to war. If we dig earlier to the Roman era, we see a semi-similar situation in terms of being able to not have to go to war; though the Roman system was more similar to Israel than the United States.
Your idea of democracy is the Greek democracy, not of the representative government we have now. I would consider anyone who doesn't get the person they choose to represent them elected to office to be unrepresented. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't become obiligated to obey their state's laws, as the purpose or reason for the laws does not correlate with representation or voting. The need and purpose of obeying the laws set by your state remains regardless of whether you are living under a monarchy, oligarchy, theocracy, democracy or representational democracy.
The difference between creating a law prohibiting stealing verse one which sends unwilling citizens to die in a war whose outcome would never effect the state is night and day. A representative government who only acts to better the lives of the members of the state who it governs, could never do the latter.
As far as, "If you are willing to break that agreement that was made the day your country became a democracy, your word is not to be trusted," did you really believe someone would just accept such silly flimflam at face value? The US certainly was created in opposition to your idea of government so tyrannical as to throw it's citizens lives away on a whim. The very second paragraph of The Declaration of Independance, a document outlying the founding principles and reasons of the soon to be minted new state, which states what the purpose of a state should be, what the purpose of their founding state (the state which has become the United States) should be, and why it was necessary to found a state when their current political body ceased to act in regards towards the best interest of the people who it governed:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government ... for their future security.--
WHile this is not the body of laws of my state, these are the principles which should have underlined and outlined the laws which were to be created for my state. The laws themselves are transient, something each new generation adds to and subtracts from. The very nature and purpose of a law, in light of this transient nature becomes questionable. How does one view the laws created by one government branch when there exists another branch of nonelected members created out of neccessity to appeal excessively unjust laws created by the congress?
There are very serious questions concering the nature of law and government which you are floundering under and which I myself am unable to answer; though I consider an understanding of them to be vital to a discussion of this type.
Thanks for the clarifications, I'll try to be less general about this and apply it more in the context you're familiar with.
I think what you quoted explains what I meant pretty well:
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
It doesn't say anywhere that you can decide to skip one law and keep the rest, it's an all-or-nothing package. You either accept all the current government comes up with, or you do a revolution to put a government in place that will be listen to the spirit of it's people.
If a war is trully unwanted by the population, that means their government doesn't represent them anymore and there is one remedy to that - a revolution. Getting rid of that government who forgot who put them in charge and for what purpose.
A democracy is usually founded on a social contract (which usually takes the form of a constitution) and part of becoming part of that democracy is in giving many of your powers away to a governing body in agreement that everyone else does the same thing. In some forms of the social contract, which I'm guessing the US adopted, the "remedy" to a government abusing it's powers is a revolution.
Most of the population being against a war and dodging the draft is kinda hypocritical, when what they should really be doing is threatening with a revolution if their country doesn't resolve the war they declared.
If there's a law that allows draft dodging under certain circumstances, then that's very different - so long as you are truthful about it and don't call it as an excuse. Kinda like in some wars where you weren't sent if you were married and people who got drafted paid huge sums of money to get married so they didn't have to go and then divorced after the war. That's breaking the trust that was put in you by your fellow countrymen when you entered the agreement.
(and while I know that contract was made/signed many years before you were born, whatever state you become an adult in presumes that you agree in following it's contract - which is why adults and kids don't get the same treatments from the courtroom.)