The big question is, which wld have solved the cat and
necro problem, the lack of space,why didnt they make them instanced, or semi instanced, ie they go over a certain number of players, a new instance is created. This alone would have increased the player base at least double or triple on bartz alone, yes most of them would be farmers, but lineage has the same amount of farmers as any other game, wow etc. nothing new...
btw in case anyones forgotten, once the farmers go its a sure
sign the games on the way down...
Anyone else notice the light status everytime 3rd party tools
cease to function? This game wld be over without em as far as
im concerned, in the long run more farmers = more players.
Its up to ncsoft to realise how to accomodate the farmers
without disturbing the players, ncsoft DROPPED the ball when
it didnt instance places like toi and lost the plot completely
when it didnt at least create instances for the main and high
end levelling spots.
Instances & intelligent handling of farmer levelling spots =
more appealing to farmers = more cash = bigger population =
higher populations attract higher amount of players - this is the MAIN thing wow got RIGHT - instances mean easier to farm, less running around looking for places to level - and MOST IMPORTANTLY you can EASILY handle a LARGER player base...
The MAIN reason is the lack of instances to accomodate farmers away from players and the lack of the need of PURE buffers <- a stupid idea if there ever was one, dont make lineage an appealing prospect for up & coming players AND farmers alike. We need to accomodate both.
The Situation ATM -
Lack of places to farm for farmers = stagnating farmer population, yes the cats and necro's brought more farmers, but not by much, they actually might have reduced the farmer population as the older guys probably jus migrated to the tombs.
Lack of places to level for players = This is a HUGE problem imo, as it is nukers are stuck to levelling in fields, they CANT do cats or necro's as they dont drop herbs and even if you do use BTM its a huge risk, nukers ideally need large fields like fields of silence. Melee's need more interesting dungeons like cruma and elven ruins, my fave dungeon lol. The library in elven ruins looks awesome!
To attract more players nsoft needs to add instances to accomodate a large player base AND an even larger farmer base, which it does POORLY atm for the reasons above..., MORE epic bosses for end game, hell make the class change bosses NONE pvp zones :p and none campable, and the obvious hero changes everyone on the euro servers've been pointing out, no ones listened as usual = say goodbye to your userbase.... are you listening NCSOFT????
Its so obvious the lack of farming space and lack of levelling space is limiting the player base - lack of farming space i'd argue is the REAL killer of this game, as the farmers seem to make up the bulk of this game, hell id guess if they took the above suggestions Bartz, Teon and Franz wld explode with players - as higher populations attract more players - full servers attract more newbies AND even more newer farmers, like it or not thats a GOOD thing, and again like it or nor not cant have one without the other.... as it is this games going to stay more or less the same, farmers need a decent amount of places to farm apart from switching servers, you cant really accomodate several farmer companies on one server, the same thing goes for players everyone wants to play on the heavy servers - low player base - attracts less farmers - attracts lower new players - the main problem on the rest of the servers...
This game needs to create the NEED for overspill, more space = farmers more likely to add new account to new servers = more newer players WILLING to invest their time in a growing server
As it is there is an overspill coming , and its not going to come out of new opportunities for players to create newer communities, and for farmers to make cash, but out of stagnation and overcrowding = dissatisfaction - increasing the amount of players leaving as the newer servers are populated,
Overspills have a tendency to be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the games ability to balance the need for it in the first place, new players and old farmers migrate to new servers out of growing communities and the search for higher prospects, or through dissatisfaction with the games inability to cope with a growing population. NCSOFT needs to make the necessary adjustments or loose their player base to farmers and overcrowding...
Why can't mmo's just be mmo's and not have farmers? Why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only reason 90% of people buy adena is so they don't get left in the dust by the rest of the people buying adena. Honestly everything your saying this post is "How can we accomodate farmers" Its like everyones finally decided theres no way to get rid of them so now everyone talks about ways to fit them in without annoying the hell out of regular players.
This is just sad... man why does everyone have to cheat.
Didn't bother read more then to the the world 'instanced'
I'm just gonna say this, Instances is a CURSE to MMO's In fact Instances makes them NOT being MMO's anymore if you ask me, but hell boring stupid games.
I for one don't ant any instanced game, it's boring, a free open world is sooo much more fun and better.
Didn't bother read more then to the the world 'instanced'
I'm just gonna say this, Instances is a CURSE to MMO's In fact Instances makes them NOT being MMO's anymore if you ask me, but hell boring stupid games.
I for one don't ant any instanced game, it's boring, a free open world is sooo much more fun and better.
100% agree. Instances = Bad. Seamless MMO = Good
Myaswell go play Diablo 2 if you want instances. Because it results in basically the same type of gameplay.
BTW PleChan... Sick Siege Videos. Seriously those are awesome your good at making them. I love the music
I'm just gonna say this, Instances is a CURSE to MMO's In fact Instances makes them NOT being MMO's anymore if you ask me, but hell boring stupid games.
EQ2 makes heavy use of instances, and it actually lends itself well to the epic feel of the game. The overland world is open, you run across other players all the time, form pick-up groups, kill them, whatever, depends on the server you play on, but a lot of the dungeons are instanced.
In 95% of these instances, there's no respawn. Once a mob dies, it stays dead. There's a definite goal to these places, all depending on the specific dungeon you've entered, much like the Rifts or Festival of Blood are now. You and your party go in, do your thing, get your treasured item/Named, Raid, Epic, whatever Kill/quest update... or die trying. If you leave the zone, especially the ones designed around a raid mob, you're subject to an 18 hour lock out. Mind you, if you die, you respawn at the entrance to the area, not back in town.
Instanced content, especially when designed correctly, can actually provide a *lot* of atmosphere, accomplishment and reward to both hard-core and casual players. An example of this was the Lost Dungeons of Norrath for EQ1. In these instances, of which there were many, scattered over the world and each keyed to a specific thing, you earned something akin to our Raid Points, which you could then use to buy gear and upgrades (like Augments or SAs) for gear.
Seamless has its place, but a blend of the two works out incredibly well, too.
There are plenty of places to go level up where you will hardly every see anyone else. The only problem with them is they are so far out or not accessible via teleport that no one wants to run 15 minutes to get to them. Especialy when you can just go to a Cat or a Necro and level faster and get stones.
It's not like the drops in these areas are better then anywhere else, they drop the same stems and thread as any mobs. There is no reason to go to these new areas, they offer nothing new in the way of making Adena or leveling.
Face it, this is a totally Adena based game. Why spend extra money to port far away when all you need to do is go to the closest Cat or Necro? From Dion it's 88k Adena to port to Schuttgart (or however it's spelled). Why? That is a HUGE waste of Adena. The proof of that - go to that town - it's empty on my Server and the mobs around it are blue to a lvl 57 toon.
As for the bots; they will never go away so stop crying in vain to get NCSoft to make them go away. Each bot is $15 a month in their bank account. Each 8 toon bot group is $120 a month they make. How many bots are there you think? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Per server? Do the math. If the bots go, the NA servers start losing money for NCSoft and L2NA gets scrapped becuase it's in the red.
Try exploring, there are plenty of bot free areas in the game. They just aren't anything special at all.
I don't even care about the farmers anymore because there are way too many of them. I do care about the main playerbase that does cheat and that do participate in PvP. That makes me
mad :mad: .
I fine instances to be boring. Lineage 2 is a grindfest and if I had to be in a room all alone without ever seeing anyone, well that just isn't good :D .
This is just sad... man why does everyone have to cheat.
Because you can't have the good without the evil, it's just the beast that is the MMO.
***EDIT*** Had to fix that statment, it made no sense.
Everywhere you let a stupid repetitive task in a MMORPG, it will be automated.
Now cheating to beat someone else... that's impotence.
IMO, MMORPGs shouldn't be about grinding. L2 is not hard, just long. NCsoft shouldn't be proud of that. No way it's hardcore in a good manner. It's hardcore stupidity.
All that to be able to PvP at the end... at least when you are with friends it can be fun.
The grind is exactly what makes an MMORPG fun as an MMORPG though - the false feeling of progress and success that grind evokes do funny things to the mind - some feel cheated after they look up, and some are relaxed enough to know about it and enjoy themselves.
But yes, people will cheat, and they shouldn't - because the PvP is a gauging of PvE progress and loses meaning in the face of botting and ebaying.
That said, I'd much rather play an actual MMO (i.e. not guildwars) with either invisible levels or none at all.
If there was an MMOPGRGPRPG or whatever it is called, where there was a lockdown on cheating, it would be extremely popular with those who are disgusted with cheating. this is my first online game of this sort. and i think it will prolly be my last, as i figure there is always going to be cheating and getting into a E-******* match is not my idea of a good time.
Ebayers in this game crack me up. why are you buying adena? because you can't make enough for yourself. and then you play and compete against the same people you buy the adena from. you will never be able to keep up with toons running 24/7. and then eventually you end up fighting the same people you buy adena from.
essentially paying someone to whip [Censored] for you.
This is just sad... man why does everyone have to cheat.
I dont think that everyone has to cheat, you can enjoy the game perfectly well without cheating, but you'll just lv up slower so you'll have to find other ways of entertaining yourself in the meantime (yes i mean RP :p)
If only Quests were fun and rewarding :eek:
As for the endgame though, i'm sure there's some who have gone there without cheating, but i'm also pretty sure that the majority of them have at one point or another not strictly respected the EULA, to put it mildly :)
The few high-level friends i had all left the game because they couldnt compete with the ebayers, and that's kinda sad, but like i said on another post this game was designed from the start to encourage ebayers, so...
What a load of guff.
No-one wants fields or necros full of bots and they definitely aren't a reason why someone chooses to play a game. I know many people that would play if there were less bots on the Euro servers.
It seems there's a band of players that want everything for nothing and buying level, adena and items is an easy way to go about it. All this does is create the demand for the bots.
Maybe the solution is for another server with a pay as you go facility and NCSoft themselves sell the items. All the "I want it now" brigade go and play this new server and let the rest of us get on with it. The trouble is, it would rip the heart out of the game.
It's possible to make rather simple system of chasing people in instanced dungeons.
For example, you come to teleporter NPC and ask him for the list of parties in instances. Then you can either port to new place or port to one already occupied by some party. In the latter case you don't get drops or xp from mobs, but you can gank the party staying inside.
It would be good to give that party a warning though.
It would be good to not allow chased party to leave the place instantly. That is, no soe zone inside instance.
Also it's possible to make starting place of instance to be peaceful zone so ported party won't be killed in black screen. Well, may be the peaceful property should have some sort of time-out, so you have like 30 seconds for port in.
Im not talking bout absolute instances, but limited instances, with viewable players like the one above, minus the list, l2 farmer problem solved, as the server load increases more instances are opened up for players = an economy less controllable by farmers, giving larger clans the ability to compete and even possibly out compete farmers, not to mention this'l bring more drops and cash for legit players.
PLAYERS HAD THE SOLUTION!!!! EVERRED!!! WHERE IS OUR BELOVED EVERRED!! SLAY THE FARMERS!!!
seriously though... it free'd up all the rooms in cruma. we need a group to do something like everred did and go around from catacomb to catacomb necro to necro and just kill all the farmers all day.
I'm sorry all those die-hard players who wants easy gank-spots cannot see it. When the game design makes it extremely hard for some players and some classes to level (polers, support classes that are useless in fields FTMP, dwarves, etc.) you really need to give them a way to separate them from those automated players. ATM they can't and slaying farmers is just a very inefficient way to handle the situation.
What if you go red on a farmer and another legit player runs through, sees you, kills you, and picks up an item you drop (since they are usually groups of 9 in catas). I bet you'll be back here crying foul because you were a "bot killer" and got ganked by someone else. Red = murder in this game, remember? Some people would rather not have to go around commiting a crime and risking the penalties of it just to have fun in a video game.
Instancing will help that alot, as would more events like Four Sepulcher, just for lower level players. Events that take skill and coordination and teach group play to L2 players - cause most of the playerbase sucks at group play.
This is the first game where 50-75% of groups would rather tank 4 mobs at a time instead of bringing along a crowd control class - and no, my SE is not going to rift to be you "Healer". Find a Bishop.
If this is such an MMO, why do players keep saying that but then **** every single suggestion that would make it more "group-dependent" even when they complain about the lack of live buffers and lack of variety in leveling spots for classes like warlords nad dwarves to pole, etc.? PvE is required to level up in this game (you don't get XP from ganking people, or I'd be level 80 from ganking WeDontPlay) and until NCSoft can make PvE enjoyable on a consistent basis for all level ranges in this game people will continue to quit and farmers will continue to dominate the market.
Also, I feel locking players out of a certain leveling spot is griefing, not normal game play (competition, PvP). We did it for almost 2 weeks, it is not fun for either side, TBH.
ATM there is NO even ground between farmers AND players, the present system, the lack of space punishes BOTH farmers AND players, AND drives off subscribers. There is no way for players to compete with farmers, and there is NO WAY for farmers to allow players to compete with them, its a question of ever decreasing circles atm, which needs to be fixed asap, if this game wants to survive.
FOR the person who asked WHY WE NEED FARMERS?? FARMERS are the equivelant to WHOLESALERS in an mmo, is a normal player going to buy wholesale multiple accounts? NO, is a normal player going to pay a guaranteed hundreds of dollars a month for those multiple accounts? NO - This is why farmers are ESSENTIAL for ANY MMO, ANY company not accomodating farmers is going to get hit where it hurts, in their player base, - low populations attract less players AND their bottom line, ALL mmo's need to learn HOW to balance farmers AND players, something wow HAS done, and is the MAIN reason its so successful, even tho it looks gawd awful and plays jus as bad.
Sure vast open fields and huge dungeons SOUND good on paper, but will they actually consolidate players to PRIME levelling spots, you seem to FORGET the system ATM ENCOURAGES communities of players to CONVERGE on central points, CREATING the environment a mmo is SUPPOSED to give, without creating a vast and confusing mess. Id RATHER have instances then getting LOST in large and labyrinthean dungeons, same goes for those explorable vast fields, the playerbase wld get spread TOO thin, you'd never see anyone, they would ALSO add IMMENSELY to the download times for new players, and patches etc, wld GROW in size, instances provide a cheap and easy way to balance the needs of farmers AND players without dedicating hordes of developers to these new areas. Healthy competition is great, forced competition is pointless, which is the situation atm, it needs to be fixed
A game the relies on farmers to survive needs to be modified. Think about what you are saying. If you 100% get rid of farmers (not like its that easy) NCSoft will see some problems with supply. I would assume that 1 of 2 things would happen.
1. drop rates for basic mats would increase.
2. the number of mats required to craft would drop.
Either way, we would have zero change to supply vs demand. You might actually see dwarfs being rich again.
OK dude, I'm sorry but the Caps Lock key is NOT the "pay attention to me, I'm so awesome" key.
If anything, you'll put the seed of hate in people even before they read your post.
OK dude, I'm sorry but the Caps Lock key is NOT the "pay attention to me, I'm so awesome" key.
If anything, you'll put the seed of hate in people even before they read your post.
IMHO the main problem is that farmers decide the prices. If NC Soft would give a certain item a maximum the player can get for it the whole problem with adena buyers would dissapear (in most ways)... but we only get a warning message like "caution! this price differs ..." Players don't even read that message anymore, because it's like "uh, what else is new?"
IMHO the main problem is that farmers decide the prices. If NC Soft would give a certain item a maximum the player can get for it the whole problem with adena buyers would dissapear (in most ways)... but we only get a warning message like "caution! this price differs ..." Players don't even read that message anymore, because it's like "uh, what else is new?"
Setting a max screws up the market. If you were the only player on the server to have an epic jewel, you should have the right to charge 12301292389243892302439802304a for it.
IMHO the main problem is that farmers decide the prices. If NC Soft would give a certain item a maximum the player can get for it the whole problem with adena buyers would dissapear (in most ways)... but we only get a warning message like "caution! this price differs ..." Players don't even read that message anymore, because it's like "uh, what else is new?"
Setting a max screws up the market. If you were the only player on the server to have an epic jewel, you should have the right to charge 12301292389243892302439802304a for it.
Well in this case they can do a system that determines the offer and demand.
sell L2 at walmart and spam some comercials or link from anime/sci-fi sites if you want more players.
WoW is on the shelves there, and that game sucks donkey balls compared to L2. but everyone thinks its so great cause its all over the TV (some of the commercials are hilarious.)
ha i remember you from C2 killingmackroony you had 3box back then.