It depends on what you prefer. Do you want to level fastest, easiest class in the game (Spellhowler) or level insanely slow (Phantom Summoner). Do you want to be a key class at raids (Spellhowler) or absolutely useless outside of minor heal/debuffing duties ( Phantom Summoner 56+). Do you want to pvp decently (Spellhowler) or do you want to sit and watch your friends fight (Phantom Summoner).
It depends on what you prefer. Do you want to level fastest, easiest class in the game (Spellhowler) or level insanely slow (Phantom Summoner). Do you want to be a key class at raids (Spellhowler) or absolutely useless outside of minor heal/debuffing duties ( Phantom Summoner 56+). Do you want to pvp decently (Spellhowler) or do you want to sit and watch your friends fight (Phantom Summoner).
wouldn't really listen to him, summoners lvl really well. we don't need outside buffers to solo, and its not impossible to solo yellow or light red mobs, even mobs with increased hp.
in groups summoners are irreplacable at 56+ summon friend can keep a group going for a long long LONG time.
pvp ok some problems with seiges, but in all honestly with all the classes that can preform 1 hit kills, who would do will in a seige other then those classes. summoners are still really good at low number pvp. i often go around looking for war targets solo and i generally never die unless i run into a group of 4 or more, or if they are more of those high lvl 1 hit classes.
But summoner can level really well. He can basically solo ToI 10.
SH you will want to have buffs from a shillen elder, such as empower.
A Phantom Summoner needs no other to level well, just his summon...
Also people like Phantom Summoners, especially when they become noble because they can port their friends places with them.
I myself hate the L2 pet system, including the summon system... But if you like pets/summons I would pick summoner. But you REALLY have to like them, lol.
well rumor has it NC is changing the pet system in the upcoming update, which would include the summon system since they are tied together. they are also adding a new pet type that can be used with other pets and summons out. that alone could be a decent boost for pure summoners
SHs can run without buffs. With normal weaponry (aka +3 top of your grade)... the only thing buffs (mostly empower) do for you is let you hunt in VoS at 61 instead of 52. Otherwise... you can pop acumen pots and be fine. I was.
wouldn't really listen to him, summoners lvl really well. we don't need outside buffers to solo, and its not impossible to solo yellow or light red mobs, even mobs with increased hp.
I wouldn't really listen to him. My summoner is higher than his. So are my SHs (and I assume he has one, otherwise why compare). I know what classes level well (mostly because that's all I play).... and you simply cannot compare these two. It doesn't matter what gear or buffer a PS has... an unbuffed SH will always blow it out of the water. As for a buffed SH... there is no class that does better in PVE. Sure.. my summoner is an ES instead of a PS... but all things considered.... PSs are gimped in comparison... so my opinions will remain.
in groups summoners are irreplacable at 56+ summon friend can keep a group going for a long long LONG time.
This is only a consideration for summoners with party buffing summons... aka warlocks (very high in demand) and elemental summoners (not very popular, but very appreciate them to those who know how to utilize their buff. From what I've seen.... people will always chose a healer over a PS.
As for the pet revamp... it is only a pet revamp. And having leveled both pets (strider~) and as a summoner... I fail to see how they are the same. Pet exp... skills (or lack their of), inventory, and equipment =/= summons.
A PS+Summon must kill a mob 15% faster than a SH at any given moment to be on equal terms in regards to exp/ time.
A PS+Summon must kill a mob around 30-45% faster than a SH at any given moment to be on equal terms in regards to exp/ time when comparing an SH using Shadow Flare.
An SH can two shot single HP mobs unbuffed. They can also 1 shot them with Curse Death Link.
With buffs... they can move on to deep red mobs and do the same thing. 1-2 shot single hp mobs.... or move on to multiple hp mobs and simply mow them down with cdl.
With B2m+HP pots/Corpse Drain, Herbs, Elixers, Clear Mind... there is no down for SHs. If there is... we are talking about minutes. You can change your pve strats in order to gain mp back. Yes... gain mp as you are still exping.
If you want to talk about perfect sh vs perfect ps... there is nothing to say. Wild Magic Augment + Siren Dance + Prophecy of Water/ Chant of Magus + Valakas Necklace + the rest of the mage buffs.... we are talking about a 99% magic crit rate on a nuker. And yes... it happens. I know several people who are cut like this. Valakas Necklace and WM augment are overkill... as other people have achieved consistant magic crit rates without them (according to the SS of this hero Spellsinger I've seen).
If any summoners wish to argue... plz send me replays of your pveing so I can gauge your exp rate myself. I won't take your word for it... because we obviously have different opinions on the ability to solo well.
No. SHs are better for what I do... but I have no idea as to how you wish to play. Again... it depends on what you want to do. I am only in it for the exp since these classes are merely festival/raid/ally function alts. You might like to rely on partying more.... to play a hybrid dd/healer/debuffer... and whatever else a PS does.
What would be a better class to be? A Shillien Howler, or a Phantom Summoner?
Adding to everything else said so far...
Spellhowler is very 'boring' to play. Click a mob and 1-2 nukes and it's dead. Rinse & Repeat. No real need to even pickup herbs if you have buffs/gear. (Hence all the 'adena fields' around FOTM nukers when they level.) And the standard cast speed setup makes it oh-so mindnumbing.
Phantom Summoner plays more like melee buff/healer with a strong pet. Except the summons tanks for the PS instead of a PP/SE tanking for a wolf/hatchling. It takes a little longer to kill things, but your always 'active' and watching what is going on.
Both are about the same in gear costs up to B grade with the SH being slightly more expensive afterwards. The PS can spend less on their gear, but Beast SS and normal SS will definately cost more for the PS over time. Otherwise the extra costs for crystals (to summon with and for cubics if you party) is largely a non-cost for normal grinding. (Although you can honestly spend a bundle to have everything going full bore all the time....overkill, but you can do it if you want.)
SH are largely 'solo' characters. They do so well at grinding without a party that very few actually do that. (It's not unpossible, but it does seem quite infrequent these days...plus you need to 'restrain' your normal DPS if you party with melee.)
PS can do either solo or party equally well. Switching between the two doesn't require any major play style differences either. PS is slightly rare as well.
As far as pvp that I've seen, SH seems to be better at the 'gank party' than a PS. For siege, it's closer to even. Maybe a slight advantage to the PS if it's busy enough that all the mages/archers are all running low on MP. The PS is a bit limited by the slow speed/reaction speed of his summon, but support is usually boxed instead of live, so worrying about being 'erased' isn't nearly the issue it could be.
Such a hard decision. I first went through a human nuker and killed it, then a sps,(it was even worse) so i killed it, now im on a dark wizard... and it's woking pretty good... never sat not once. EVER. except that one time I was overweight with too many arrows(drops) & bsps. but im going to fix that with -4str +4con, -4str +4 dex.
Yes the demon set is great, I'm still using mine @ level 75 SH. But go for the +4 int and +4 wit tats. They will greatly help. The minus 4 more to men isn't that bad either.
I don't know 'cause the -8 will affect an already low mp just to burn it off faster... And can't rely on herbs all the time either becuase there are many times where one won't drop for a very long time and when it does it's just a small one.
Pick one... because ever mage needs +4 int and +4 wit.
The 3rd slot is debatable.... but I doubt you'd find someone opting for +4 dex over +4 int or +4 wit.
CON is good for Dark Elf for a number of reasons:
Stunned Less
More CP/HP
Better CDL Damage
Dark Elves really don't need +DEX.
Worrying about -8 MEN is kinda funny. What tats do you think every other SH has on the server. You get Clear Mind in addition to High[er] levels of Body to Mind. Also, as an SH you should be able to hunt in areas where you can one shot mobs from 40-46[-48'ish].
You don't lose that much MP from -8 MEN, and even if you did, it would be worth the awesome gains from the INT and WIT tatoos.
People refer to it as a "standard" tat setup for a reason.
Yeah but that would kill my men and Sh has the lowest men in all the mage classes.
This means nothing. SHs are the most mana efficient class in the game. Not only do they have higher levels of body to mind..... but they have clear mind too. This alone is overpowered.... but now you have herbs and emergency elixers too. When leveling my SH I didn't even need my SE for recharges. She sat down in Giran selling stuff while I soloed in Vos.
That would also mean lot's of down time.
Wrong again.
I don't know 'cause the -8 will affect an already low mp just to burn it off faster... And can't rely on herbs all the time either becuase there are many times where one won't drop for a very long time and when it does it's just a small one.
Wrong yet again. -8 means nothing. It means so little.. that my chars use +4-5 dyes. Only worry about men in regards to pvp.... where every little bit of m def helps (and I do mean little bit. At top levels I am only gimped by 20 m def because of the dyes I chose)
I looked on L2 calc it seems that -8 men will take only about less than 100 mp
I guess it isn't really bad then
L2calc doesn't replace good ol fashioned experiance.... so try asking people who know their class before you assume anything else.
SHs level fast and easy. But Summoners, when soloing, can go places SHs would not go, if they so desire. (Including, they can farm their own AA in the Cats.
I don't know 'cause the -8 will affect an already low mp just to burn it off faster... And can't rely on herbs all the time either becuase there are many times where one won't drop for a very long time and when it does it's just a small one.
A few things to consider as a mage.
elixirs (5 min pots). Herb drops (low chance). Boxed SE.
SH gets higher lvls of BtM (lvl 6?), SH gets clear mind so while walking and siting your MP regens faster.
SH has the highest DMG of the nukers, but the slowest cast speed. Being that your in Demon set you have to have Acumen SA at all times to make up for it.
Acumen(cast speed) is whats based for your skills cool down time.
Wit is whats based for your chance to crt, while also boosting your cast speed.
But there is a quote.... and you responded directly to me.
Don't worry about it though. I realize that an inferiority complex can manifest itself in many ways... so I will simply revel in your stupidity as I await your next cop out. Really. You try to hard for someone who says they don't care.
I'm going to use a demon set with a +4 [censored] with SA acumen, and i might try out that +4 wit you were talking bout and +con but the dex/int I have to give this some good thought cause dex give you more run speed and evasion ww pot can get you out of some situtations to be able to drain and nuke when caught with a pop up crowd and int gives you a little more m attk which is good cause you hit a whole lot harder. Though I guess a reasonable choice would be int over dex...
No.... it wouldn't. This isn't a fighter class. There are no options. These things are standard issue for a reason. Mage tats are extremely overpowered in the way they work. It's a free for all. A similar comparison would be upping Dex and Str without nerfing con. in fact... it's liking upping Dex, Str, and Con if you so chose. You do miss out on men and str.. but the -str does nothing, and the -men lowers your regen, m def, and mp by such a low degree that it simply does not matter.
You can also chose +1 wit over +4 con for pve.... but that is completely up to you. I changed +1 wit to +4 con at 61.
As for using demon set... why are you pushing for it? Why are you are intentionally nerfing yourself? You are going to hit harder... but much MUCH slower. A duplicate mage with a cast speed set will always out damage... out exp a mage with demon. Your goal is to find the best dyes you can afford (if you can't get +4-4,get +4-5).... then strongest acumen weapon you can afford... and then the highest cast speed set... and from there you go out and start nuking. Demon Set shouldn't be considered. Although it has it's uses... every mage should eventually carry both demon sets and cast speed sets. I do. I'm just saying... for the bulk of your work... you want cast speed. No... as an SH... you NEED CAST SPEED. There is no other way around it. Getting m atk weapons and sets are not the way to go with this class. It's good for Spellsingers.... but not Spellhowlers.
If you can kill a mob with 1 spell (without using the CDL-style of hunting) in Demon, but not Karmian, then go with Demon, but increase your cast speed as much as possible with Acumen SA weapon, +WIT dyes and casting speed pots.
If you cannot kill a mob with 1 spell in Demon (again, not including CDLing), then choose a robe set that offers at least +15% castspeed bonus and don't look back.
Important to note here is that the early levels of C grade are misleading. You will bump into quite a few mobs that you can 1 shot at those levels. However once you progress in levels and Grades, you'll find the mobs are usually of the 2-shot variety...at least. When it gets to that point, don't bother with Demon, or Zubei or even Nightmare. (Don't get me wrong: there are some EXTREME builds out there that can work effectively, if not efficiently... where some combination of Demon or Nightmare + highly OE weapons + endgame buffs + spell choice, etc., etc., are involved. If you've got it like that, then hey, more power to you. But that is the exception, not the rule.)
Finally, seriously consider adding +4 CON -STR dye. Buy the cheap dyes from the NPC. Adding +1 more to either WIT or INT won't benefit you nearly as much as +4 CON in the long run.
As a lvl 77 Storm Screamer I can reassure you that what the previous posters have told you is quite accurate. There is a standard tatt set up for mages for a reason: its what works best. Demon set is a nice set, I was one of those stubborn people who leveled through B grade with a zubei set because I wasn't PvPing much and I hated the old look of avadon. Once I got into dark crystal robes I never looked back from the cast speed set up.
don't bother with divine, its a healer set. Karmian and demon are both good sets. You'll cast faster with karmian and hit harder with demon. Depending on the mobs you're hunting you'll favor one or the other. If you decide to PvP cast speed is always the way to go.
Exactly. If you have the luxury of being able to choose between teh two depending on the circumstance more power to you. I'm from the same generation as Sovrath: no SA on weapons at the time so casting without a cast speed bonus in robes was incredibly painful.
Yeah I remebered that... it was hard back then but atleast the amount of people around and the constant challenges made things more interesting, plus the constant look out for pkers and scammers made it kindof fun especially if they're noobs nd picking fights while being way below your level and not even knowing it.