On Devianne it is out of control right now there is at least 2 heros that are sold accounts this month. In the past they been many more and more nobles then I can count. I know there is no way for you to really prove this and thats why I asking our new CM or HGMSpam to seriously consider this idea about accounts that have Nobles/Heros on them only.
If the billing information/email/mailing address/secret question is going to be changed on a hero/noble account they are informed their account will be frozen for 72 hours if they proceed to check on the legitmatcy of the actions. If you care to proceed then they 72 frozen account status starts.
In that 72 hours you pull up their chat logs and ip addresses and former email address. If they are saying goodbye to people in clan/ally chat saying that they are no longer going to own the account you got your smoking gun and they are perma banned. If they don't they you check IP logs if they are living in Texas say and their IP requesting the change is in Poland makes it quit simple to know its not the same person and banned again.
I think this will help a lot of people feel better about the game especially lessen the bought heros/nobles going around. It cannot stop the ones that have already been sold which is sad but it will stop them in the future.
PS the account selling/buying is also going into illegal terriorty with people committing fraud by stealing their accounts back after selling them. I only recommed this for hero/nobles since them being bought/sold effect the whole server and there is limited number of them.
Ideas comments suggestions welcomed but I hope the higher ups at NCSoft really take this seriously :(
Sadly i don't think you will see this happen slycutter,its a nice idea and i couldent agree more whit you.But it will take recourses i don't think NCsoft has,there are many many noble accounts out there by now.
Sadly i think NCsoft has given up on patroling this game and enforcing the UELA unless given bullet proof evidence its been broken.And so the damage has already been done to the servers,and whoever legits left will slowly leave the game or join the ranks of non legit.
I could be proven wrong here,i would hope i am.But thats up to NCsoft..
Ohh and Alyra or anyone else,don't respond whit the submit ticket or petition.We all know that ;)
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
sorry, but they cant really prove otherwise, game over, back to normal buisness of people buying accounts
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
sorry, but they cant really prove otherwise, game over, back to normal buisness of people buying accounts
Sorry to brake the news,but turning account over either by sale or given is both against the UELA..And thus subject for banning.
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
sorry, but they cant really prove otherwise, game over, back to normal buisness of people buying accounts
You cannot trade accounts either there.... you really need to reread the EULA only you can play the account you give it away it can be banned since your not the orginal owner. They do not need to prove it was bought or sold just not being played by the person who started the account, its a lot simplier then you think.
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
That is fully bannable based on the EULA. The only cases that are borderline are when it comes to family and that would be verifiable by family name.
But then again, I've lent my credit card to friends to pay for their l2 accounts for a month or two when they were in financial need, so don't see how they could differenciate that from an account bought.
PS the account selling/buying is also going into illegal terriorty with people committing fraud by stealing their accounts back after selling them.
Depending on where you are you can report this to the authorities to get your money back. The subsequent investigation might include NCSoft and if this happens that account will most likely get banned in the process.
Shoulda changed passwords, lol. Somewhere I read up on these adverts to see what is for sale might be anyone I know. If you see something that says you get password to game account only and not master account then you better bet your credit card they'll reset the password from the master account and you're SOL (and I don't mean staff of life).
But then again, I've lent my credit card to friends to pay for their l2 accounts for a month or two when they were in financial need, so don't see how they could differenciate that from an account bought.
I've done that too for other things, Kat (not L2). :) Technically, I think it does go against the EULA to share a name and password with a friend, so they should change it after something like that. I know real-life happens though, and sometimes friends need help.
I go through quite a lot of research whenever I get a name-change request (since that's all I really deal with personally) to do what I can to make sure it isn't an account that's passed hands, but there's only so much I can check. I know that the GM/CS folks do research quite a bit when someone requests a password, or if there's suspected fraud/account sale, but I'll bring up your idea to them Sly. :)
Thanks alyra it just takes the fun out of the game for people when someone busts their butt for a year or more to get in a posistion to compete in the olyimpad or end game pvp and someone who just swiped a credit card gets there from the begining :( Its one of the huge flaws with hero system people are not rewarded for dedication, also why I suggested vetern rewards too.
But then again, I've lent my credit card to friends to pay for their l2 accounts for a month or two when they were in financial need, so don't see how they could differenciate that from an account bought.
I've done that too for other things, Kat (not L2). :) Technically, I think it does go against the EULA to share a name and password with a friend, so they should change it after something like that. I know real-life happens though, and sometimes friends need help.
I go through quite a lot of research whenever I get a name-change request (since that's all I really deal with personally) to do what I can to make sure it isn't an account that's passed hands, but there's only so much I can check. I know that the GM/CS folks do research quite a bit when someone requests a password, or if there's suspected fraud/account sale, but I'll bring up your idea to them Sly. :)
I think its pretty lame and imo, its the worst kind of rulebreaking, much worse than regular ebaying, botting, farming or whatever.
Even bots take a high risk of getting banned at every turn and can only make so and so much headway each day (especially played ones) and at least they put some sort of effort out there, here its just a swipe with the credit card and viola, with no risk you got yourself a level 75+/75+/+ character.
Well, you don't own your account, so you can't sell it.
You pay NCsoft to use the account on their servers, but you don't own it.
I do, however, own the serial code used to create the account. And I'm not only allowed (-> First Sale Doctrine), but also required (because the game is useless without it) to sell this serial code when I sell the game.
Since NCSoft doesn't (as far as I'm aware) allow me to close the account opened up with that particular serial number and re-use it to open a new, pristine account - thus, permanently linked the serial number and the account - the same law says it's my right to sell such a permanently linked account (but not any characters on it!) along with the game.
If NCSoft, on the other hand, simply allowed to use a serial number to open a new account after the previous one was closed permanently (not by banning it, of course), the situation about accounts would look differently.
------------------------------------
In any case, I don't see any problems with selling clear, pristine accounts without any characters on them. I don't think anyone at NCSoft does, either.
If there is any Account sharing at all, all the information for that account is considered moot, while the account can still be used, if anything is lost on it, nothing will be reinbursted at all reguardless of the situation. I beleive i can find the quote from HGMSpam for that one.
Account selling is just plain not right, hardcore evidence would be required to do anything of the sort for that one, otherwise it would just fall under the "shared" domain.
Wow nice response from Alyra. It's always good to hear from someone in the company.
Hrm looks like the updater updated something. Is login server up yet? Trying to get my stores in before I run out.
Hehehe. Stores == profit == more adena to spend on overenchanting. :D
Wow nice response from Alyra. It's always good to hear from someone in the company.
Hrm looks like the updater updated something. Is login server up yet? Trying to get my stores in before I run out.
Hehehe. Stores == profit == more adena to spend on overenchanting. :D
Wow nice response from Alyra. It's always good to hear from someone in the company.
Hrm looks like the updater updated something. Is login server up yet? Trying to get my stores in before I run out.
Hehehe. Stores == profit == more adena to spend on overenchanting. :D
We've had to extend the maintenance period by a little bit today. We've locked the server guys in their room until they finish--the servers will be back up in 30-60 minutes. ;)
But Akjosch you are right in all MMORPG you can sell a blank account with nothing on it, since the serial code is yours hence why I said only accounts with heros/nobles on it meaning your selling access to property you do not own.
I think that clarfies the point we are not talking about blank accounts here we are talking about game breaking accounts of the people that everyone knows 1 or 2 heros can turn a whole castle siege or pvp around very quickly.
this willl never work. What if i move from texas to polland. How will ncsoft prove this. What if i travel a lot for business/leisure throughout the world. My IP address will also change frequently. NCSOFT will never implement anything like this unless they want to make themselfs vulnerable to law suits.
I quit every 3-6 months since c2. Every time i say goodbye to all friends and stuff in pms ect. I always come back. Sometimes when i am away at college (different state), sometimes when i am home for the summer (different state), or if i traveled to Australia like i did for the entire last summer (different country).
/end of topic
this willl never work. What if i move from texas to polland. How will ncsoft prove this. What if i travel a lot for business/leisure throughout the world. My IP address will also change frequently. NCSOFT will never implement anything like this unless they want to make themselfs vulnerable to law suits.
I quit every 3-6 months since c2. Every time i say goodbye to all friends and stuff in pms ect. I always come back. Sometimes when i am away at college (different state), sometimes when i am home for the summer (different state), or if i traveled to Australia like i did for the entire last summer (different country).
/end of topic
Just because you move/switch bank/retire for a period, doesn't mean your SECRET Q/A and PASSWORD changes too. Does it???
I have a bad feeling about what ever your intentions was with trying to kill the post.
this willl never work. What if i move from texas to polland. How will ncsoft prove this. What if i travel a lot for business/leisure throughout the world. My IP address will also change frequently. NCSOFT will never implement anything like this unless they want to make themselfs vulnerable to law suits.
I quit every 3-6 months since c2. Every time i say goodbye to all friends and stuff in pms ect. I always come back. Sometimes when i am away at college (different state), sometimes when i am home for the summer (different state), or if i traveled to Australia like i did for the entire last summer (different country).
/end of topic
Your really not serious with this post are you?
Im certain if you move from Texas to Poland it will take you more then 5 hours to get then and get settled. See you just missed the whole thing you cannot be in two places at the same time so if your IP comes from Texas at 11 am and they get a request to change billing info at 3pm from an IP in Poland how did you take an 11 hour flight in less then 4 hours you superman or something? lol
Please think this through all you are trying to do is protect people ruining the game and why merge servers they are not losing anyone since people sell their accounts the amount of people in game stay the same they just don't have any new people and that won't change if they merge servers they need to fix this problem before moving on to the servers as a whole.
PS If you quit every 3 - 6 months then it obvious no one is going to playing your account the same/next day now isn't it? I love how people think this would effect anyone but account buyers because it will not if at best its a minor inconvience for 72 hours.
I would love to see accounts being bound to people by means of including one's passport ID number/social security number or equivalent.
Selling your social security number is a crime last I checked. Same for giving passport detail to 3rd parties. A passport/social security number is not your as it is issued to you by your country. This ties nicely into any local law system. Also lovely for any future inconsistent behavior which could reflect back on your citizenship. Even if a minor (child) is not yet issued a passport the passport of the parent(s) or guardian can be used. Again any wrong doing would reflect back on them. Keep in mind that you have to be of a certain age to be able to play this game without supervision of a guardian or parent(s). Most likely the same implies for social security numbers.
If you pretend you lost your passport a new one will be issued. The old one gets void. If you forget your social security number you can access that info by requesting them personally at city hale etc. So changing your name/billing info number without reinstating them via the passport ID number/social security number directly bans the account. And then it's bye bye toons etc on the account.
If you give the passport details to change for instance the billing information you are basically giving the other party the option to be you according to your country. Any crime that may happen is then done by you and you alone. Of course you could try to prove otherwise in court.
But I know this will not happen anytime soon as NCsoft should have to be able to ask for details like passport ID numbers in accordance and with approval of all parties involved.
Bottomline is as I stated before in another post. Any account needs to be verifiable to official country/citizenship records.
Actually they do that in Korea and in the new SAE region opening you need a Korean SS to play on the korean servers.
So that might not be a bad idea to stem this in the future and you have to be 13+ to play this game because its rated teen (or is that 14 i forget) in the US any citizen born here is issued a SS at birth now. If you go to school here you need to apply for a SS number if you work here you need a SS so almost 99% of population who would play this game would have a SS number not sure about other countries though.
I don't know about southern europe but up here in the north alot of ppl don't even have a passport. It's not needed anymore for traveling inside the european union. Drivers license is enough.
And social security number. I think that's only in america.
I think the original idea sounds like enough to control the buying of characters. Can't make everyone go pay for a passport just to play the game.
I moved from England to Sweden whilst playing a different game. Was my own account, I never cheated on it in any way. Never gave out my password, never went into anyone elses account, nothing. A few months after I moved I got banned and they refused to even talk to me about it to allow me to prove that I had moved. I emailed offering all sorts of proof, including a copy of my passport along with the stamp when I entered the country. No joy.
I can see why you are suggesting this but I'm against it. Why? Cos I will at some point be moving back to England, and I may visit the US, I may end up anywhere in the world. No I can't move faster than sound to get there but then I don't think NCSoft traces IP's on a minute by minute basis....if they trace them at all.
I already lost out on playing 1 game thanks to a badly thought out and poorly implemented banning system. After all the time and effort and the friends I have made in this game I'd really rather it not happen again.
I moved from England to Sweden whilst playing a different game. Was my own account, I never cheated on it in any way. Never gave out my password, never went into anyone elses account, nothing. A few months after I moved I got banned and they refused to even talk to me about it to allow me to prove that I had moved. I emailed offering all sorts of proof, including a copy of my passport along with the stamp when I entered the country. No joy.
I can see why you are suggesting this but I'm against it. Why? Cos I will at some point be moving back to England, and I may visit the US, I may end up anywhere in the world. No I can't move faster than sound to get there but then I don't think NCSoft traces IP's on a minute by minute basis....if they trace them at all.
I already lost out on playing 1 game thanks to a badly thought out and poorly implemented banning system. After all the time and effort and the friends I have made in this game I'd really rather it not happen again.
Then again Kiraliaa you wouldn't be changing your secret question and email address everytime you moved would you? And its only a 72 hour hold. If you notify NCsoft im moving from place a to place b in a reasonable time I am sure nothing will happen but if you move from sweden to england in 90 minutes well the red lights would be going off now wouldn't it?
Actually my wife and I share our accounts and sometimes we are in two different countries so our accounts would switch quickly from one country to another.
But of course our secret question, password and stuff wouldn't change.
I moved from England to Sweden whilst playing a different game. Was my own account, I never cheated on it in any way. Never gave out my password, never went into anyone elses account, nothing. A few months after I moved I got banned and they refused to even talk to me about it to allow me to prove that I had moved. I emailed offering all sorts of proof, including a copy of my passport along with the stamp when I entered the country. No joy.
I can see why you are suggesting this but I'm against it. Why? Cos I will at some point be moving back to England, and I may visit the US, I may end up anywhere in the world. No I can't move faster than sound to get there but then I don't think NCSoft traces IP's on a minute by minute basis....if they trace them at all.
I already lost out on playing 1 game thanks to a badly thought out and poorly implemented banning system. After all the time and effort and the friends I have made in this game I'd really rather it not happen again.
Then again Kiraliaa you wouldn't be changing your secret question and email address everytime you moved would you? And its only a 72 hour hold. If you notify NCsoft im moving from place a to place b in a reasonable time I am sure nothing will happen but if you move from sweden to england in 90 minutes well the red lights would be going off now wouldn't it?
No I wouldn't be changing all that but your suggestion states billing information/email/mailing address/secret question. I read that to mean any not all of these conditions. That to me is the difference between the / and & symbols.
And again I point to the fact that ncsoft probably don't track past ip addresses like that. Repeating your point about taking 90 mins to change ip addresses doesn't really mean anything without ncsoft confirming what they track, something I doubt they would be happy to do.
And again I point to the fact that ncsoft probably don't track past ip addresses like that. Repeating your point about taking 90 mins to change ip addresses doesn't really mean anything without ncsoft confirming what they track, something I doubt they would be happy to do.
everytime you log into l2 they receive your new IP how you think they track people who **** accounts etc?
Its standard pratice they have a running log of every IP address you have used on your account not sure how far back they keep it but im betting at least a year.
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
sorry, but they cant really prove otherwise, game over, back to normal buisness of people buying accounts
Sorry to brake the news,but turning account over either by sale or given is both against the UELA..And thus subject for banning.
I'm pretty sure there is some passage in the EULA which says you can be banned just for logging in. But I never actually read the thing. Seeing as I bought it already, and no store allows returns of opened online games I would have lost the initial 50 bucks by not clicking agree. Personally if there is some agreement like a sneaky EULA, it should be on the box cover so you know whether you are going ot agree to it before you make a nonreturnable purchase.
First Sale Doctrine is murky when it comes to software. Some courts say yes, it applies, others say no, it doesn't, because you are simply licensing the software's application.
So if I create an L2 account for someone in my family on my master account is that also against the EULA or is that only for the game accounts (L2 account)?
this willl never work. What if i move from texas to polland. How will ncsoft prove this. What if i travel a lot for business/leisure throughout the world. My IP address will also change frequently. NCSOFT will never implement anything like this unless they want to make themselfs vulnerable to law suits.
I quit every 3-6 months since c2. Every time i say goodbye to all friends and stuff in pms ect. I always come back. Sometimes when i am away at college (different state), sometimes when i am home for the summer (different state), or if i traveled to Australia like i did for the entire last summer (different country).
/end of topic
Your really not serious with this post are you?
Im certain if you move from Texas to Poland it will take you more then 5 hours to get then and get settled. See you just missed the whole thing you cannot be in two places at the same time so if your IP comes from Texas at 11 am and they get a request to change billing info at 3pm from an IP in Poland how did you take an 11 hour flight in less then 4 hours you superman or something? lol
Please think this through all you are trying to do is protect people ruining the game and why merge servers they are not losing anyone since people sell their accounts the amount of people in game stay the same they just don't have any new people and that won't change if they merge servers they need to fix this problem before moving on to the servers as a whole.
PS If you quit every 3 - 6 months then it obvious no one is going to playing your account the same/next day now isn't it? I love how people think this would effect anyone but account buyers because it will not if at best its a minor inconvience for 72 hours.
LOL so basically your saying in the 2-3% of cases where the seller logs into the account 5hours or less time between when the buyer does....it should be banned? LOL if they ever implemented this it would be simple....dont sell an account until 1 day after you last logged in. Most sellers have the accounts stripped and ready to sell for days if not weeks before the final sale.
Next point....Your saying that it should be against the EULA to change your secret question consecutive times on an hourly/daily basis. I have changed my secret question 5 x in one day before because i discovered someone could easily guess what my favorite color is or my first car color. Plz give up this ******ed idea you are creating 10x the amount of work for ncsoft and really all your ideas are easily by passed. And the day ncsoft says to a customer sorry we only investigate noble/hero accounts, your lol 80 heir wasn't worth our time to do an investigation for is the day you will see everyone leaving for a different game
i am not gonna even respond to your last point because it doesn't even make sense. Hmmm i am in one state now, in 4 hours im leaving for another state...i should have my account 72 banned because i am going home for the weekend?
Obviously your clueless to anything that been written so there is no sense in responding to you, but go ahead justify selling accounts, IMO the people have a problem with my idea are the cheaters.
So if I create an L2 account for someone in my family on my master account is that also against the EULA or is that only for the game accounts (L2 account)?
That is not against the EULA, as long as the game account info is not shared. Of course, I wouldn't recommend doing that unless it's someone you really trust. :)
ok and here is how we defeat that entire ban immediately
"my best friend quit the game and gave me his account"
sorry, but they cant really prove otherwise, game over, back to normal buisness of people buying accounts
Sorry to brake the news,but turning account over either by sale or given is both against the UELA..And thus subject for banning.
I am his brother,
Done, ncsoft have it in their EULA that your family can play etc.
People just use gamecards neway when they buy [censored] so goodluck proving it.
Sure ip address changes, how can u prove hte person didnt move
Cant remember what post it was but I am sure that Nc made a reply on the forums saying.
"Bying other accounts is against the EULA, but we do NOT enfors it, but dont come crying to us when the person reclaims the account"
Yes because people should stop crying it happens in every [censored] game and SO many people get them recalled, your just dumb if u buy one and put alot of gear on it, your asking for it. So yes people are dumb for buying them :)
And yes they wont enforce it, want to know why?
LARGE majority of characters in the past 2 years, there would be a good 5-10% at least that have crossed hands. Your simply going into their revenue.
Maby people should complain more about getting stuff into the game we actually want so these people dont get bored and quit? u know like server transfer? :)
finally a good idea can we drop this moronic idea already. In 6 pages all thats been said over and over again is there isn't a way in MMO to prove ownership that the company can stand by. Yes they can do investigations but in 98.5% of cases it is impossible to prove (key word prove) that the account was sold. The company has the right to ban whatever accounts they want, however it is not good business practice to ban/temp ban accounts just on whims. Gms have stated they do lots of research b4 they ban an account, they dont just walk up to him and say hmmm looks like a train....botting. For better or worse i perfer them leave 100000 bots, then ban 10 innocent people.