I've noticed recently how big the impact of CP potions and quick heal potions are on pvp.
99% of fights ae about who carries more pots and it's making the game about as fun as listening to a broken record.
I've had people come back to the game and say they'd rather play WoW since all this is about is who has most pots.
Can't you fix QHP so they don't work on flagged players? Maybe give CP potions a decent delay again?
Make levels/skill actually more worthwhile than how much adena you can buy to spam pots with.
Really i guess those people want to go back to pvps lasting 2 seconds? Pots extend the length of pvp and now someone can save themselves and overcome someone else using pots and skills instead of just getting hit 2 times and dead.
With the current broken state of PvP damage, the pots are neccessary. Once NCSoft sorts themselves out and reduces all PvP damage so it can reasonably be healed (i.e. no single top DD should be able to outdamage a bishop), removing/delaying CPP makes sense again.
The problem I see with pots right now is they render many classes totally useless. Many classes can't outdamage greater cp pots (let alone QHP), so this isn't really ballancing things.
The archer will 3-shot you instead of 2-shot you if you spam pots at the right time. The tank or healer or bd/sds or summoner will 1000-hit you instead of 40hit you. Other classes like WC and OL will run out of mp before you're dead and then become totally useless.
Tanks arent meant to kill people or did you miss the memo?
DD = Kill
Tanks = soak up damage
Healers = Rez keep people alive
Support = Support the toons
Stop asking for every class to be able to do a ton of damage if thats the case I want a Bishops MDEF and DA's HP on my PR then you can have all classes do the same damage.
PS you know how to use pots right even on a low con PR i can kill Sgrade HE's because i use my pots at the right time turns me from a 2 shot into 15 shot against a HE.
Based on the Hell Knight description on lineage2.com:
"Rejecting hypocrisy and pretense, these knights of hell direct their wrath at the enemy. Devoted to vengeance and the god of darkness and unwavering in their beliefs, these formidable Dark Avengers are willing to destroy anything that gets in the way."
And here's the Dreadnought:
"Called upon by ancient powers, the most powerful Warlords are conferred the designation of Dreadnought. Adept at one-on-many combat, they are endowed with singular combat prowess, enabling them to annihilate enemies regardless of their number. Dreadnoughts prefer large weapons such as the polearm. "
Those aren't the only classes that have very violent descriptions yet can't overcome CP pot spammage.
Someone wrote this some time ago and I loved it so much I saved it.
"PvE bishop. you are hands down the BEST healer in the game!! no one can match you in your uber healingness!! unfortunately, due to the fact that the ranged/dd classes dont need healers in party (they never get hit), and the melees cant survive in a party without VR regardless of how much mp you have, you are effectively a useless xp leech. dont worry though, becasue you can always solo for that xp. in C5 we even added hp/mp/might/emp/haste/focus/ww pots, so that you can solo(with any weapon but a bow or polearm) twice as long before resting! some of these pots are even more effective than a bishop's best heals, healing 100% of lost hp! and they drop off every other mob! so what are you waiting for, go get em tiger! "
But I agree CP pots are stupid, in fact I was watching a MM try to kill a HK one day from my spot dead face down in the grass and the HK was spamming CP pots so fast I just laughed and said (in vent) dude there is NO WAY you are killing that guy just give up.
I would say that QHP are crap and should be totally removed. That is what a healer is for.
CP pots should be removed as well. Healers should be able to heal CP along with HP.
This way, healers get a boost for pvp because they are the only ones that can restore cp. You wont see single archers running into a melee group and just out cp potting their dmg since they would need a healer. It also removes the ******ed advantage that people with macro keyboards have.
Ok, you recognize there are some obvious and unjust imbalances in lineage 2. CP pots and QCP are not one of them, infact they were added because players complained that pvp fights were over in 2 hits (necro/sorc days in C3).
If you want CP spamming to be fair, CP pots should be free from a NPC. THat fixes that.
As for some of the other notoriously lame imbalances, all classes such as healers/tanks/buffers should get a multiplier for their damage in pvp so they are not such a one sided coin. People do enjoy good pvp, people do not enjoy our classsetup > your classsetup fights.
Healers have way too much importance in the fights on L2. If you wanted some interesting fights, each class should at least have battleheal (nukers already get this, which is another game mechanic flaw). Then fights would at least be about who can survive, vs who can dole our the fastest damage. Tanks would enjoy this kind of improvement as they would be able to at least toss heals ontu people that are getting focus fired, and perhaps be able to save them with some well placed hate spamming.
Ok, you recognize there are some obvious and unjust imbalances in lineage 2. CP pots and QCP are not one of them, infact they were added because players complained that pvp fights were over in 2 hits (necro/sorc days in C3).
It was a bad idea then and it is a bad idea now. I remember when they put in QHP... a mage could tank a small group because they would spam QHP. Wow thats real cool.
If you want CP spamming to be fair, CP pots should be free from a NPC. THat fixes that.
No it doesnt. Have you thought about weight limits. Here is why cp pots make no sense at all. Classes that cannot hold very many cp pots are also the classes that have the lowest con / hp / cp to begin with. So... Lets take the classes the drop the fastest and give them no ability to take out the classes that are already harder to take down (higher con / hp / cp / weight capacity). Free or not makes no difference at all.
As for some of the other notoriously lame imbalances, all classes such as healers/tanks/buffers should get a multiplier for their damage in pvp so they are not such a one sided coin. People do enjoy good pvp, people do not enjoy our classsetup > your classsetup fights.
Actually, setting up parties is one of the things that sets L2 apart from other mmos. I would hate to see thrown together party 1 be able to easily defeat well thought out party 2. Lets not take away the thinking aspect of this game.
Healers have way too much importance in the fights on L2. If you wanted some interesting fights, each class should at least have battleheal (nukers already get this, which is another game mechanic flaw). Then fights would at least be about who can survive, vs who can dole our the fastest damage. Tanks would enjoy this kind of improvement as they would be able to at least toss heals ontu people that are getting focus fired, and perhaps be able to save them with some well placed hate spamming.
OMG... healers have too much importance? Are you kidding me? Healers need MORE importance in pvp. Being able to heal into cp would be HUGE. Tanks can toss heals on people.... its called a PALADIN.
I will have to agree that cp pot/qhp favor the strong players. Cp/qhp spam basicly gives elite damage groups no downtime. Hell, they don't even use healers in pvp groups anymore. Not saying we should remove them from the game but adjust the delay to a much longer reuse timer and that should balance things a bit.
While we are at this; why isn't bsps allowed for olympiad? We all can see mages are completely useless in olympiad. But if we allow mages to use bsps maybe the matches might turn more interesting.
I agree that these items removed from the game (and I'm what many players call a carebear). And if they don't, they should at least change it so that players cannot carry them into declared PvP, such as castle seiges.
Hell, they don't even use healers in pvp groups anymore.
Yep. :sigh: I have a siege video of myself actually with two SH's and a SPS and thanks to cp pots and qhp's (oh and BSOE's) I was basically completely unneeded.
Well, the pots don't bother me much, albeit QHP's get a tad annoying after awhile(they need a longer delay).
besides, it doesn't matter how many Pots I can carry. IE: 500 GCP, 250 CP, 200 QHP.
It still doesn't stop the 7.4k Crits I always seem to get hit by. I'm 77 with 1666 cp & 4.2k HP(archmage) I can't stop 7.4k dmg in one shot. Hell; I don't even crit for that much, and I'm a nuker.
A 7x boss jeweled toon can port anywhere with only a few arrows and shots on them and take on whole groups by spamming QHP and CP pots... CP arent too bad because of the slight delay.
Damage dealing classes are menat to be that, not damage dealing and damage soaking at same time. A TH, Hawkeye, even nukers can take most damage thrown at them by spamming qhp and CP pots to covver 750 damage every second. Especially where a single player ganks a paarty that's stocked up for hunting and not pvp.
imo the problem isnt the cp pots themselves but their effect on a player weight guage... currently a number of classes can hold hundreds of cpp and still have enuff shots to kill a army... and most of the high dps classes end up being able to hold extra cpp
try somthing like each class can hold 25 cpp and thats it... they have nothing to do w/ weight etc.
Another thing is the accseeibility of QHP.........
This totally overpowered pots come from one pplace only... castles.
The strongest allies get the castles and become even stronger by farming hell ouuta these things and outspamming anyones damage.
CP pots heal faster and for more over time than a selfbuffed cast speed setup overlord (unless OL has conc dance/blessing of seraphim and 78 sword muse song).
QHP heals faster than SE and outheals bishop/ee over time as bishop/ee can run out of mana within seconds.
What is this pos game? Pots here to support the suport classes, or the support classes here as a nice addition to pots?
Well all they have to do is longer the reuse on CP pots.
QHP is RARE and EXPENSIVE to use. That is a true benefit for a castle keeping clan.If the opponent's wallet can afford a $ everytime we fight I really wouldn't mind losing.
And to the guy that said to make them free big no. Those potions /delete adena out of the game very efficiently.
I prefered when there was no reuse delay on QHP's.
If you guys enjoy pvp that ends in 30 seconds, well whatever.
QHP's aren't that expensive.
They are expensive when you are still trying to afford A-grade gear :p, It feels that without pots maybe there is some chance that A-grade will actually do something to help as support against those S-grade heroes, not saying a whole lot but atleast put a dent in their cp/hp.
the players that spam them dont have to worry about adena or gear for that matter. Just shows another benefit of 11011001ing or RMT and how you can make your char more powerful without having to actually play it.
there is no defensive pvp classes in this game anymore.
Every single pvp I go to it's a case of standing there spamming pots and hoping that a stun/para lands for long enough so that you can kill he enemy before they can spam more potions.
Its absolutely dumb.
I've seen saggittariouses take well over 80k damage and win by wiping out the mana of a dagger/mystic muse by spamming more pots than they can do damage with their MP.
Wheres the skill or fun when all you have to do is have a buttload of adena to be able to spam more pots, compared to the other way where it is just people using it for good gear.
This game is a group game, pvp should benefit from healers/overlords, not simply put them behind potions as an extra addition.
Also, I forgot to mention how hese pots give totally unfair advantages to the gankers versus the XP parties.
People can simply carry bare minimum supplies and stock up till ovverweight on pots and go out safe in the knowledge that they can probably take out a good XP group because they can outspam ther damage.
The XP group goes out with the intention of hunting for a while, therefore stocks up on shots and consumables for PvE, not pots. This puts them in a really bad situation when all the pvp in this game is based on who has the most pots.
Elixirs can stay, with reduced reuse timer (1-2 mins).
To balance the lack of being able to spam pots, is to of course reduce damage in PVP and make it last longer and more dependent on a good party setup and team play. Expand on the RPS system. Entire buff system needs to be changed, along with various adjustments.
In addition to this, armor set bonuses and boss jewelry should be SEVERLY nerfed. I'm talking change for example Majestic bonus from 50% to 20-25% resist stun (and remove stun dmg decrease). DC robes nerfed down to something more suitable like 10-15% cast speed. No boss jewel should have more than a 10% bonus resist to any kind of curse/debuff, and no more than 5% increase in any kind of DPS increasing stat.
Reason: Many debuffs are completely useless at end game. Just TRY to root an archer with Baium+QA, or bleed or poison someone, not to mention stun or sleep them.
DoT's (bleed, poison etc.) duration should be shortened to say 7-15 seconds, but the effect remain the same. Who cares if you get poisoned now? LOL Remember how bad bleed was at level 30? Yeah, it could actually be annoying..
reduce the AoE times. Do you know how expensive those spells are. If they worked as advertised, the time would be just about right since it is impossibe to spam those kinds of spells. If the time was reduced, the MP cost for those spells would have to be reduced by over 75% . Hell they don't even land now, their time should be increaded OR their effect during their time increased, which I think is better anyways.
If you get Flamed or posioned or bled, then it shouldn't be the killer blow, but it should make the player work harder instead of just ignoring it.
BSOE is an exceptable PvP skill. maybe if there were not so many gank squads or when you get trained by a dwarf that can play dead, then remove them, but at this point, if you are not a Damage Dealer or Meat Tank type, that is the only way to keep from being killed over and over again.
Besides, they cost alot. You are not going to go thru those like you do the pots, that is for sure.
If you are not 3 shotting someone in pvp as an archer (ofc if their a tank then little more or if they ud'ed) then you should not be pvping because you dont have the right buffs and little gear at all :>
Cp pots/qhp dont do much if you actually KNOW how to pvp.
Funny, when I watch the gank videos, what do I see, massive pots being used.
When we are on the receiving end of a war, PvP is brought out to you. And being a PvP game, you are there full time. Funny how the developers gave the prophets their own BSOE spell. Obvoiusly, they felt at least for this toon, one was needed.
And as far as it goes, BSOEs were used with great effect in Lin1. Didn't see the old school complain about them. It just meant you needed to hit and hit hard.
The old, live to fight another day comes to mind.
Anyone ever play Pong, back then we didn’t have all these problems. You either hit the little dot or you didn’t, there was no special potion you could take to get the dot back in front of your little pad! Oops, I digress and reminisce of the early years of video gaming… is it still called video gaming?
The developers came up with potions and scrolls because of all the complaining that one race had “unique skills” and this race don’t. Now we are complaining because everyone can do those “unique skills” and get away from being ganked. We will never be satisfied with what they develop or remove from this or any game. It is our lot in life.
BSOE is an exceptable PvP skill. maybe if there were not so many gank squads or when you get trained by a dwarf that can play dead, then remove them, but at this point, if you are not a Damage Dealer or Meat Tank type, that is the only way to keep from being killed over and over again.
Besides, they cost alot. You are not going to go thru those like you do the pots, that is for sure.
*puke*
Cut me a break. BSOE is not a skill, it is the ultimate carebear (or gank) accessory.
Used as it is today, the players that can afford them - i.e. anyone who plays with their mastercard number on-hand or has a clan hall (CHBSOEs are quite cheap) - roll up on you, can pvp the piss out of you and the minute they start taking damage simply disappear.
Taking CP pots and QHPs means that at least you are still there in the fight (and I'm not arguing that those haven't further eroded pvp in l2). When you are able to flag and the moment things don't look so hot, BSOE, that's ruining the game.
It then boils down to who can afford to keep BSOEing over and over and over and over and over... believe me, I see it every day.
That's not pvp. Why bother risking flagging knowing that your enemy will continue to fight you till you die OR simply disappear with no penalty if you so much as dip into their health?
Sorry, I never realized giving a pvp point to someone as winning. I thought the whole idea was to force them to lose adena or at least more adena than I do. I never said I lead the gank party. I am mostly the receiver of those parties.
And while we are on it, when was the last time a gank party was even close to the level of the party they were hunting. uhhh, never. When you have a hero roll up your behind in the cats with a train, you want me to stand there and die. Ha. Your idea of pvp and mine are completely different. Never weill they meet me in an even battle, and I certainly will not loose that kind of time to level to some kid who has hours and hours to play vs. my limited play time.
Hey, part of being PvP IS getting the kill. If you are not fast enough, well, sucks to be you - eh.
Very rarely do I ever see a nice 9v9 or a pure trash talk decend into PvP. More often than not, it is a hero / > 75 going out and killing sub 70's. That is the reality of the server (Bartz). Either you can take the big dirt nap or you can BSOE out.
If you are one of the small clans, lower levels or just plain support toon, you do what you can or must. How many times do we see the Bishop go down first? How about the OL? Next, the EE and SE. Then they go after the DD's Nukers and tanks.
lol.. you only see that sub 70 ganking because you're still a lowbie (lvl 68 is still lowbie, yes)! Either that or Bartz is more carebear than Lionna where the norm is to gank ALL places, just with a bunch of heroes and at least twice the number of people :p
Sorry, I never realized giving a pvp point to someone as winning. I thought the whole idea was to force them to lose adena or at least more adena than I do. I never said I lead the gank party. I am mostly the receiver of those parties.
LOL!!!!!!!!! I keep hearing this... nag nag whine whine yadi yadi adena adena.. did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maaayyyybeee those that have reached end-game don't care about anything else than getting some pvp? They have millions to spend on pots, scrolls and what not, they already have good enough gear, so why on earth should they care about adena?
It's only a victory if you kill/interrupt the other person. If you get killed, you lost.
Example of a victory: I was about to end my grind session on my lowbie sub, i see an enemy, kill him and both his buffpets. I log off, but leave my buffer behind while I go make some food, I come back and they threaten to PK my buffer but don't dare do it (wuss). He's back on his 75+ main WITH a healer and says he will stop me from XP'ing, which I'm done with for that evening! Now I call my clannie that comes and 2-shoot his ***. He was pretty ****** off in addition to losing an hour for nothing, THAT is a victory :) +3 for me ^^
Larger scale victory, that actually counts for something else than your EGO, like my example above, is winning Baium, a castle, a hunting area or any other raid or epic boss fight and getting as many heroes as possible.