if all of us sign up for mmorpg.com(if you already arent) and rate lineage 2 10/10 for everything even if you dont think it deserves a 10, we can get it into the top seven list on mmorpg.com with this being done it will attract craploads of people to come back and create more revunue for NA lineage 2 and a funner experience for us with all the new players.
so go rate lineage 2 on mmorpg.com they have hundreds of thousands of subscribers to that website and it will attract a crapload of people if we can get it onto the top 7 list.
dont flame this post JUST DO IT!!!! it will only benefit the game.
Only problem with this is the forum troll named Sorowath or something like that, that tells everyone how bad this game is. I swear he lives to bad mouth it on every thread started.
L2 has a pretty large "hate base", since a lot of people who don't like grinding find a lot to dislike about L2. This really shows on the mmorpg.com forum where you'll typically have one guy ask what the game is like, then maybe 1-2 people giving some pretty well informed feedback, followed by dozens of pages about how L2 sucks and how X mmo is better.
it takes literally one day to get your points to 5... you just login for like 10 minutes.... then close the website and repeat a couple times and vwahlaaa 5 points.
now this is what i like to hear!! and when you rate it you can leave your review... your own piece of mind... let people know what u think of the game. tell them the good aspects!!
and even if you wanna talk about the stuff you hate dont do it there....
if even 10 good comments in a row are left that could attract alot of newbs.
just say only the things you like there and leave the complaining here. complaining there is only going to keep people from playing.
your all always complaining about how ncsoft should market lineage 2!!! well why dont YOU do it!! get on mmorpg.com and rate it 10/10 and give it a good review and i gaurantee itll bring people back. its the most visited mmorpg review website there is.
you have control over this games success... so go market this bad boy!!
The rating system on that site is ******ed. Guild wars is on there 3 times. CoV (City of Villians) is on there with CoH(City of Heroes). They are the same game listed multiple times.
yea its stupid so rate those games 0 and rate lineage 2, 10. weather u like their rating system or not its the most viewed rating website so get lineage 2 to the top or at least top 7
I would say a honest review of L2 would be better than a glowing review. We don't want ppl startin then quiting in a month after its too hard. But leave the "others" out of it as they will be seen soon enough and they bother you very little til higher lvls.
I would love people to start for a month then quit... because of the 100 who start and quit 10 might actually stay and make it high lvl. and the ones who quit still added money to the company which gives them more options for us.
I would love people to start for a month then quit... because of the 100 who start and quit 10 might actually stay and make it high lvl. and the ones who quit still added money to the company which gives them more options for us.
but if 100 came and 90 quit and 10 stayed and 90 badmouthed.... that would be the same badmouthing that goes on now anyways except we would have 10 new players... it can only help the game.
2) Even if we do this, others will see it and then immediately give it bad ratings. Has been done and will be done.
3) Sovrath bad mouthing? What are you talking about? He is probably the best speaker of Lineage 2 at mmorpg forums, he tells the truth which can be a great thing.
Sorrowho however is another story.. yet there is truth in his/her some of his/her posts as well.
Only problem with this is the forum troll named Sorowath or something like that, that tells everyone how bad this game is. I swear he lives to bad mouth it on every thread started.
Yeah, "Sorrowho" really has it in for the game. it is sometimes very hard to combat that type of vitriol. yes, he is entitled to his opinion, and if we believe in the idea that people should be allowed to express themselves within the context of the venue, then that is what he is doing.
it's up to others to rebut his arguments as best they can.
However, I don't think bumping L2 to some high score just to get players is the answer. First off, all that would be accomplished is that new players might try the game and see it for exactly what it is.
The game is the game. it isn't gong to suddenly to appeal to more players just because they try it. So many people alreayd know if this game and what it offers, both good and bad.
It really is up to the developers to create exciting and compelling content so that when new players do try the game they want to play it.
Otherwise, bumping L2's score on that site is essentially "false advertising" (if you don't 100% believe in it). Quite frankly, I couldn't with good conscience give the game 10/10 and I play the game and have done so for 3 years.
I would only want to bring in people who would appreciate this type of game and want this type of gameplay experience. Otherwise, sure, I could get several real life friends to play it just on my reccomendation alone. But I know they will hate it and I would be essentially lying.
So in the end it is up to the developers to create a great game advertise it and then for players to find like minded people to try it.
if all of us sign up for mmorpg.com(if you already arent) and rate lineage 2 10/10 for everything even if you dont think it deserves a 10, we can get it into the top seven list on mmorpg.com with this being done it will attract craploads of people to come back and create more revunue for NA lineage 2 and a funner experience for us with all the new players.
so go rate lineage 2 on mmorpg.com they have hundreds of thousands of subscribers to that website and it will attract a crapload of people if we can get it onto the top 7 list.
dont flame this post JUST DO IT!!!! it will only benefit the game.
That's exactly why MMORPG.com's votes aren't worth a 923. I saw the exact same behaviour on Ryzom to get "awards". However CM of Ryzom got grounded because she wrote a news incitating Ryzom players to go vote for it and it 923ed the results while Ryzom was an unfinished dying game.
So stop the fanboyism, if you're registred, give them your opinion whether it's good or bad and don't make a crusade to teach the crowds how Lineage 2 is superior. :)
So stop the fanboyism, if you're registred, give them your opinion whether it's good or bad and don't make a crusade to teach the crowds how Lineage 2 is superior.
I'll have to agree. L2 can't use people who came here hoping to find the perfect game and will leave bitter.
They're saying don't paint it with a rose-colored brush, because the game is far from perfect. There really is no perfect game out there.
What they are saying is that if you are going to advertise it, don't shy away from the bad things. Let people know what to expect. Yes, you rarely see truth in advertising, so this is a little different. What you want to do is not focus on those things, but don't try to hide them either.
Show that it is possible to enjoy the game despite those things, and you've got one hell of an advertising statement ready to bring in people that would like it.
the best advertising is an advertisement that only shows the good things and doesnt tell the bad things.
you never see a commercial on TV that shows the bad things because it will help people decide not buy the product rather than buy it.
advertising only highlights good points and its not lieing in any way shape or form. its just showing off what it has to offer.
you people need to realize no newcomers are gunna come if your like wellll theres a lot of ebayers and farmers and the economy is out of wack... and massive clans control alot of things like whos a hero
BUT HEY its a great game with great pvp and u can still have fun...
the reader is gunna go..... HMMMMM no thanks.
but if you vote 10/10-9/10 and say hey the pvp is awesome.. challenging game... good graphics... good gameplay... good grouping environments where everyone plays a role... take over your own castle if you are a great leader...
people will come and they will find out the bad things on their own and be like MEH not really a big deal.
but if they read the bad things it sounds worse.
i cant imagine how quickly a company would fall like nike for example if they put out an advertisement that said our shoes dont last as long as reebok's and are made for 10 cents each by chinese kids
BUT THEY LOOK NICE!!!
and thats why lineage is falling... cuz everyone reviews it and says stupid [censored] like great game lots of farmers and ebayers.
so yea give an honest answer if you dont want people to try it. just dont complain when your server is empty and they abandon lineage 3 for north america.
YOU ARE IN CONTROL of advertising NOT lineage 2. so if you dont advertise well dont expect your friends/strangers to come play.
The difference between advertising and a rating is that advertising never implies it's a full view of a product - but a rating does imply a certain objective reliability.
If I were to say something about L2, then it's definitely true that I've not been in a second game with such great and close clans, that the economy is a lot of fun, and that there's the pretty much total freedom of PvP (if you leave political insinuations aside).
Even if there is a bot problem, if one doesn't get too hung up about their presence, they needn't be too bad a bother.
If you vote 10/10 despite knowing the game's flaws, you are not advertising, but lying. This game doesn't deserve a 10/10, and neither do any of the other MMORPGs that are touting about their high rankings.
Experience has shown time and again that people will come, see the bots, turn on their heel and proceed to badmouth the hell out of L2 at any opportunity they find, although it's not nearly as bad as it's made out to be.
PS: "Farmers and bots, yeah, but still a fantastic experience" sounds a lot more positive than any of what you say above. You don't have to lie to make something sound nicer than it is.
See, you're focusing on the bad things. Let's try it a little differently, shall we?
Lineage 2 is a stand-alone game in the North American Market, simply because it is a game that requires a significant commitment to ensure your success. This is not a game in which you can reach top level in a month, and once you do there are still countless opportunities for you to attempt other things.
Not only is it a PVP-centric game, each server has its own unique politics and economy, giving you a chance to play the market, or play people against others.
With an in-depth storyline, you can track the development of the world and the events that occur within it, both through the official releases and the player-organized events (Point of clarity: server history in sieges / wars / etc).
Of course, not every game is perfect, and there are a few detractions to Lineage 2. Like every other MMO on the market, there are those unscrupulous players that manage bot trains or utilize real-money trade, but they are not impossible to work around. Despite these bad apples, there are still many wonderful players that can be either friend or foe. The decision is up to you.
Now keep in mind I just wrote that as it came to me. Notice the focus on the positive, while still admitting "Yeah, there are some problems, but they don't kill the game for the average player."
the categories are:
Graphics : I think the graphics are very nice for their time. It would be unfair to judge against games that are about to come out or have come out in the last year. so in 2003 i would give this a 10/10
Fun: the game has alot of things to do besides grind. there is fishing, pvping, dueling, sieging, lvl up pets, crafting, socializing, and more... some can be as tedious at times as grinding but the outcome if crafting or lvling a pet is always satisfying when your done. i would give it a 7/10
Sound: made with a real chorus. 10/10
community: alot of helpful clans and alliances, despite the few ********s. 9/10
Role-playing 1/10 no explanation needed.
performance-lag: 10/10 besides the few random lag spikes here and there i never lag.
value 15$ a month for free expansions and unlimited gameplay hours. 10/10 in my book.
service: they do answer..... eventually 7/10.
thats a pretty good review i would say... it would give an overall 8/10. so go do it up!!
Graphics: Although the game is old and made with simple means, it still looks superior to many titles appearing today, especially western ones. 9/10
Fun: Although it's quite possible to play the game by 'just doing the motions', there is definitely a lot to do, and it can be quite fun if done with full focus. 8/10
Sound: Great music - so great that it's best not to rely on the ingame replay (which is unfortunately sporadic) but to put it in a playlist while playing. The voice effects are pretty well done as well. 8/10
Roleplaying: The open PvP and seamless world as well as lack of obstrusive quests or instances make this a great platform, missing only props and more emotes to make the experience perfect. 7/10 only because so few people realise the awesome that is L2 RP.
Value: As all MMORPGs, pretty much 10/10. There aren't many cheaper hobbies.
Service: Of very varying quality. 5/10
That's just IMHO. But I do like what j wrote, although I'd still put the negatives in the middle or at the front.
You're not giving a 10/10 rating to just overexaggerate the game, but to compensate for the lowest ratings from people that are ill informed or misjudging the game.
Roleplaying: The open PvP and seamless world as well as lack of obstrusive quests or instances make this a great platform, missing only props and more emotes to make the experience perfect. 7/10 only because so few people realise the awesome that is L2 RP.
7/10 :eek:
I like to role-play. But the mechanics of this game actually work against immersing into it. For example, there's a lot of nice landscape detail like ruined houses and farms and whatnot ... and it's all not only static (WTB a house I can claim and rebuild ...), but also non-interactive (... and some wooden logs or stones I can sit down on). I can't do even the simplest things which would help role-playing so much:
- The above-mentioned sitting down on stones, benches, logs, tree stumps, whatever. The animations are there (see: castle thrones), they just need to be enabled.
- Making a "gathering point" like a camp fire (I don't care if it consumes a stem or two ...) or setting up a tent.
- Climbing, jumping ... we can already fly, it's not like we'd reach any typically unreachable place that way.
- Having some social-only skills. Even "silly" stuff like getting my mechanic golem to reach into his insides, only to take a bouquet (or, alternatively, a cool beer) out of it and give it to a character told him to. Or, say, firing off fireworks for the mages.
- Using some items without any mechanical benefit, but with the corresponding animation, purely for the social aspect of it. Yes, I have my "beer corner" on the Monster Race Track. It would be all the better if I could actually sit on one of the benches there, take out a beer mug and start drinking.
- Simple things like gathering local flowers to make a bouquet, or a (temporary) hair ornament, or something like that.
Don't get me started on the fact you have to ignore most of the PvE aspect of the game for the purposes of role-playing. I actually have an idea how the "manor" stuff would work on some (living) creatures, but I think detailing that would earn my post an NC17 rating. :)
the categories are:
Graphics : I think the graphics are very nice for their time. It would be unfair to judge against games that are about to come out or have come out in the last year. so in 2003 i would give this a 10/10
Fun: the game has alot of things to do besides grind. there is fishing, pvping, dueling, sieging, lvl up pets, crafting, socializing, and more... some can be as tedious at times as grinding but the outcome if crafting or lvling a pet is always satisfying when your done. i would give it a 7/10
Sound: made with a real chorus. 10/10
community: alot of helpful clans and alliances, despite the few ********s. 9/10
Role-playing 1/10 no explanation needed.
performance-lag: 10/10 besides the few random lag spikes here and there i never lag.
value 15$ a month for free expansions and unlimited gameplay hours. 10/10 in my book.
service: they do answer..... eventually 7/10.
thats a pretty good review i would say... it would give an overall 8/10. so go do it up!!
Those were my scores and I pretty much stick with that.
Now, before the roleplayers crucify me, please let me say that I gave it a low score because there really aren't a "whole lot" of role players in this game. Or, more to the point, it seems that they are a very small minority. And though I believe you can role play in any game, this game doesn't seem to have captured many.
I feel I would be remiss if I said "10 for roleplaying" to then have all these roleplayers come to the game and not find what they are looking for.
As far as advertising, we need to remember that bad advertising is extremely damaging.
So I would say to the OP that everyone wants to have the game advertised, but they want it to be advertised to the correct people.
It's like those fliers you get in the mail every day. They usually just mail those to "everyone" even though they try to make the attempt to be a bit more pointed in their marketing efforts. However, usually we just throw them out. They are not for us and only a small amount of people are ever reached.
But in us making L2 10/10 what we are doing is inviting everyone in to see our "great game". Except, instead of just realizing that the game is not for them and leaving, they are going to badmouth the game even more!
What you have then done is just fueled the naysayers. You've done more than that, you've allowed them to multiply.
The better thing is for the game to be advertised to people who want this type of game.
Part of this is being honest. I feel that I am a good example of this as I was fully educated as to all the bad parts of the game. I knew there was a hard economy (and this was back in Prelude), I knew it was open pvp and I knew there were issues with RMT.
And I came to "just check it out". Now, if I was told different info I might have been angry. But being prepared for the worst allowed me to see the best and allowed me to deal with the downfalls that much better.
Now, if NC wants to spend the money and make the game for "everyone" by creating alternate rules servers and concentrating on the PvP of the game then you can attract a greater customer base.
You will get the pvp'ers and you will get people who might not want open pvp but want a non pvp server, or a server with 10x rates (but limited game time per month) or "whatever".
Then people can look for their niche and approach the game based on the option they choose.
But this game is not a "one size fits all game". And I feel that advertising it like would cause more harm than good.
Will countering a dishonesty with a dishonesty somehow make things better?
Yes, it can. You shouldn't just make your decisions in a void, but based on the reality of the situation.
I don't think we need a number somewhere - we need more well informed accurate reviews, that are neither wholly fanboy/girlish nor haterish.
Numbers are very important, they insure further reviews, they get high on the lists that players reads, many players will make assumptions purely based on the number, etc.
People badmouth every game, in the end its getting out to all the general public and making it stick to a certain percentage.
The "honesty" should come in reviews (with more focus on the positive sides), numbers are there to attract people to actually bothering to read the reviews in the first place, giving the game a proper chance and actually seeing the game listed.
Being honest in the numbers aren't going to help anything, quite the contrary.
People badmouth every game, in the end its getting out to all the general public and making it stick to a certain percentage.
The "honesty" should come in reviews (with more focus on the positive sides), numbers are there to attract people to actually bothering to read the reviews in the first place, giving the game a proper chance and actually seeing the game listed.
Being honest in the numbers aren't going to help anything, quite the contrary.
Well if being honest won't help it I don't think how being dishonest will help it either.
And I'm not really arguing that "being dishonest is wrong" (even though I do think it is)
The problem is that just getting people to try the game by telling them it is "x" is not a good way to get people in the game. If anything it will piss them off more. And I'm surprised that anyone would make a decision based on those numbers.
What really is the difference between a 7 and an 8? Who knows.
What I find to be the better advertisement is what people have to say about the game. Both good and bad.
Because essentially what you would be doing by giving the game 10/10 is saying "hey, let's tell people that this game has it all and see if they believe us"
Good marketing would be to focus on the positive, and drive that home to the players who are interested in those "positives".
Listen, plain and simple it's like this: you don't lie on your resume. Some of you might have done this but I can tell you that many companies do check. Not only do they check but it has actually happened that a lie done 20 years prior can easily come back to haunt you. What you do on a resume is to play up your positives.
So if you ever have a chance to rate or review the game and you are not interested in full disclosure, just focus on the positives. But to say that the game has everything at the highest means that people are going to come looking for that. And when they don't find it their experience will be all the more bitter.
And remember, part of this is NC's responsibility. Shame that they seem to do a part time job of it. At least in this country.
What really is the difference between a 7 and an 8? Who knows.
It can be the difference between someone reviewing the game and someone chosing not to. It can mean the difference between being listed high up or not, it can mean the difference between few people checking out reviews compared to many, etc. etc.
Good marketing would be to focus on the positive, and drive that home to the players who are interested in those "positives".
Yes, but as in any advertisement you only have a short time to get peoples attention, numbers get attention.
Listen, plain and simple it's like this: you don't lie on your resume. Some of you might have done this but I can tell you that many companies do check. Not only do they check but it has actually happened that a lie done 20 years prior can easily come back to haunt you. What you do on a resume is to play up your positives.
What you're talking about is somewhat comparable to reviews, which is a total different matter than ratings, which is absolutely not comparable with a resume.
And remember, part of this is NC's responsibility.
NCSoft cannot make ratings on sites such as mmorpg.com, which is what we were origionally talking about.
What really is the difference between a 7 and an 8? Who knows.
It can be the difference between someone reviewing the game and someone chosing not to. It can mean the difference between being listed high up or not, it can mean the difference between few people checking out reviews compared to many, etc. etc.
Good marketing would be to focus on the positive, and drive that home to the players who are interested in those "positives".
Yes, but as in any advertisement you only have a short time to get peoples attention, numbers get attention.
Listen, plain and simple it's like this: you don't lie on your resume. Some of you might have done this but I can tell you that many companies do check. Not only do they check but it has actually happened that a lie done 20 years prior can easily come back to haunt you. What you do on a resume is to play up your positives.
What you're talking about is somewhat comparable to reviews, which is a total different matter than ratings, which is absolutely not comparable with a resume.
And remember, part of this is NC's responsibility.
NCSoft cannot make ratings on sites such as mmorpg.com, which is what we were origionally talking about.
Well, I'm just not biting. I'm not convinced. If people want to go and rate L2 10/10 then of course, go do it.
But I don't think it deserves 10/10 in its current state and am not inclined to make others believe that. I'll continue to post on mmorpg.com and give my opinion of the game (which is usually a "good review" but honest) to anyone who wants to listen.
Noone's really going to see your individual rating, what really matters is the overall rating, which the more positive the individual numbers are, the higher it will be. Its going to be what attracts players, make them notice it and get the industry more interested.
Noone's really going to see your individual rating, what really matters is the overall rating, which the more positive the individual numbers are, the higher it will be. Its going to be what attracts players, make them notice it and get the industry more interested.
As I mentioned before, it is NC Soft's responsibility. Not for posting ratings. But for creating compelling gameplay, interesting events and actually advertising the game.
if people are going to really be compelled to try the game, it will be from the "wow!" (not the game) factor.
It will be from NC soft creating a game that will truly be desired.
Those can only tops give good ratings from other players. More people will feel compelled to explore the game (in the sense of reviews, etc.) if it has high rating than if it has low.
Now, before the roleplayers crucify me, please let me say that I gave it a low score because there really aren't a "whole lot" of role players in this game. Or, more to the point, it seems that they are a very small minority. And though I believe you can role play in any game, this game doesn't seem to have captured many.
I feel I would be remiss if I said "10 for roleplaying" to then have all these roleplayers come to the game and not find what they are looking for.
No crucifixion from me, you're fairly spot-on... and this is so for many of the reasons that Akjosch listed. L2 is not an immersive game from an RP stand-point, generally because of things that would be fairly simple to fix. There's a tavern in Gludin... why can't I buy "potions" from it that actually reduce my stats (aka, booze!)? Hells, I can't even walk into the door. There are many things we simply cannot do in L2 that are built-in from the get-go in many other games, things which wouldn't change the gameplay for the "hard-core" in any way.
It wasn't until I started playing other MMOs, going back to games by companies I'd sworn to never touch another product of, that I realized just how big a divide there is in the content of a Western game and a Korean grinder.
And, let's face it, that's exactly what L2 is. A simplistic, pretty, Korean grinder. "Open PvP" my butt, it's about ganking, washing karma/Sin Eatering, and Seiging. The "Open PvP" is as open as the guy who wants to see you go red makes it. Sure, you *can* attack anyone you want, whenever you want... but, generally, it's not a good idea.
Seiging is where the PvP happens... and you have to grind (and grind and grind) to get there. I don't care what anyone says about the D and C graders at the seige... they're nothing but fodder for A and S graders.
Once you've won the castle? Better hope people are grinding your region, and your manor, to make it worthwhile.
Getting to those uber skills and end-game levels? Yep.. more grind. Add a rather harsh death-penalty on top of that, broken class mechanics, some obviously obsolete or inferior race/class combos... and you have L2.
Does it have its good points? Sure. As I mentioned, it's a beautiful game. It's open-ended nature allows the player to chart their own course, join whatever sort of clan suits them, and do kinda whatever it is they like (which is either grind, or socialize).
Oh, let's not forget that, unlike the MMO they're leaving to come to L2, you'll actually need to play 2 different "games" here to keep yourself in gear. There's the XP grind, then there's the Adena grind. Both of these grinds don't really go hand in hand... not on the same account at the same time, at any rate. You're either grinding XP in the field, or you're grinding adena in money quests, the marketplaces, or in some other fashion. Normal gameplay alone shall not sustain you.
Here's the issue I see with making L2 out to be more than it is:
If you're honest about it, people will check it out. Some will stay. Some will not and will tell their friends, "Well, I tried it out, but it wasn't for me. It did have A, B and C... but X and Y kept me from really getting into it. You might like it, though."
If you make it out to be the bee's knees, some people will try it out, find that its not to their liking, and not at all what you said it was, and tell their friends: "Ugh, L2. Don't even go there. I read the reviews, heard that it was all that and a bag of chips. Man, I was wrong. It sucked."
In the first case, we have viral marketing. In the second, we have viral hate-mongering.
Again, the origional poster was talking about ratings, not reviews, those are totally different things. Of course you can't outright make things up in reviews (though by god, alot of reviewers have little problem concentrating on the most negative sides), thats not going to go anywhere.
But again, its two totally different animals. And as I told Sovrath, people aren't goint to see the individual ratings, they're going to just see the overall one.
Again, the origional poster was talking about ratings, not reviews, those are totally different things. Of course you can't outright make things up in reviews (though by god, alot of reviewers have little problem concentrating on the most negative sides), thats not going to go anywhere.
But again, its two totally different animals. And as I told Sovrath, people aren't goint to see the individual ratings, they're going to just see the overall one.
I agree with the above completely.
Furthermore, with the issues L2 has, every MMO has its own issues; every single one of them. The reviews should flesh out those details, but on the enjoyment spectrum, I can honestly give L2 a 10/10 for "me". Of course it has issues and changes I'd like to see, but it so far out performs the dumb downed other games out there, it isn't even a comparison.
There are fellow MMO fans stuck in the cute game of LoTRO, running into the brick wall of nothing to do, and what few classes there are, all looking like identical twins with no significant skill sets.
There are WoW addicts who are still chasing their tails in what is really Diablo On-Line with nothing a PvPr would consider great PvP.
There are millions of players who have no clue how cool L2 is, and we owe it to them to get their attention, at the chance of saving a few =)
...There are fellow MMO fans stuck in the cute game of LoTRO, running into the brick wall of nothing to do, and what few classes there are, all looking like identical twins with no significant skill sets...
I love L2 because it's my first MMO and L2 is a great game but... Turbine is a company that knows how make a MMO in the western market. They bring new updates every month and the devs are around all the forum answering questions or resolving issues.
We have never got a dev here, only the CM or HGM.
Why I said this? Because the game can be excellent, 10/10, but if there isn't a sense of consideration of the community it can turn easily in a failure.
...There are fellow MMO fans stuck in the cute game of LoTRO, running into the brick wall of nothing to do, and what few classes there are, all looking like identical twins with no significant skill sets...
I love L2 because it's my first MMO and L2 is a great game but... Turbine is a company that knows how make a MMO in the western market. They bring new updates every month and the devs are around all the forum answering questions or resolving issues.
We have never got a dev here, only the CM or HGM.
Why I said this? Because the game can be excellent, 10/10, but if there isn't a sense of consideration of the community it can turn easily in a failure.
Turbine is not adding new content each month. There was one content update for LoTRO so far, and if they average one a quarter I'll be surprised.
LoTRO is a nice game, a pretty game that takes place in the LoTR world, and it's extremely casual & quest friendly. Of all the other MMO's out today, I still find EQII to be the best of the lot for my personal tastes, however, the PvP is executed poorly there, and pvp is important to me.
There is little to no competition for a challenging game, and certainly no games with Clan vs Clan and Siege Warefare.
One mans grind is another mans journey. ok, obviously L2 has the grind factor, but all games do to varying degrees, and players get bored when they are too easy, and complain when they are too hard. I enjoy the L2 world, its art work, and the combat animations enough to not experience it as a grind, but then again, my highest lvl is 56 so I know it's vastly different at later levels.
By the same token (pun intended) you have players in LoTRO as an example, maxing out after a few months with little to nothing to do. Pick your poison.
All I'm saying is that L2 offers a lot that other MMO's do not at this moment in time, and what many wrote off 3.5 years ago, is a great game today, and one a good deal of gamers may subscribe to if they are given the motivation and chance to try it.
Your point about lack of development involvement in the community is valid, and the game would likely be far better if there was direct communication and response to our market. I agree with you there.
I'm not comparing, we can't compare LOTRO / L2, because one is a Casual Game and the other is a Hardcore Game. But I emphasize the regularity of the updates in LOTRO and the devs presence.
Let me check, the game begin on 03/24 and the first update was 06/13, ok I was wrong : 50 days (1 Month and 20 Days).
In 50 days they added 3 pages of content update. Yesterday in a Dev Chat (Stratics HoC) they said that the next update arrive in August. (it will balance the PvM, add new skills to some profesions, and more... more... more...).
And again, I'm not comparing the games.
If NCSoft starts doing this kind of updates we always have fresh content to enjoy every month. It generate a sense of update and refresh in the community. Saw this site! the last update was in C4 and the database is of C5.
We (L2 Community) are doing a lot of things to bring new blood to the game (look the general forum) but if NCSoft don't update the site the new customers get a bad first look.
It's the present, but in the future new competence will arrive, Connan, WAR and AION. These games can be compared to L2.
At the moment I am playing LOTRO and L2 (reactivating tomorrow). I play LOTRO when I have not time to play L2 and I play L2 when I have time, to have a sense of "progress". I can play both games thank to the Lifetime subscription of LOTRO. L2 is my place for the PVP and LOTRO is my place for the "lore".
Turbine is not adding new content each month. There was one content update for LoTRO so far, and if they average one a quarter I'll be surprised.
Well, they just announced their next update at least. Don't know when it will be released though.
I would rather have more updates than one "so/so" update every six months.
And besides, you can't compare the games as there are people who just don't want pvp.
People are under the impression that the more people who try L2 then the more people we will get. That is not exactly true. The more people who try L2 who "want" pvp then then more people you will get.
l2 is a niche game.
Of the people I know who play and like video games, only a very small portion would consider playing an online game. And of those not one will touch L2 with a 10' pole.
Many people don't want grind, lackluster quests, open pvp. That is why this is not a casual game. Quite frankly, after all this talk, I feel like lowering my MMORPG score a bit as I don't think this game has grown into its potential one bit. And After 3 years no less!
On an intellectual level I understand the comment about L2 being a niche game, but on an emotional level I find that so strange in many ways.
For years I've read how "PvP" is a niche market, and watched EQII release with no PvP. Pretty depressing. At the same time WoW released, but with its flavor of PvP, and it attracted more subscribers than any MMO previously and likely single handedly increased the market of MMO players by 5-10 fold.
Now, I'm not suggesting WoW is a "PvP" game, but the fact PvP is one of the mechanics within it, that is fair to say at least half of the 8-million subscribers play, perhaps "PvP" isn't such a niche market any more. In fact, perhaps PvP was never a niche market, but what was needed was a different approach to it.
UO pre-trammel, and Darktide in AC1 were the best early PvP games for my taste, but most prefer a more controlled pvp environment, hence why Realm vs Realm in DAoC and other games followed.
Although I'd prefer a L2 server with no karma system, given what we do have, Clan vs Clan and Siege is actually far superior to Realm vs Realm, because the "players" get to pick their friends & enemies, not the code of the game.
What really turned people off from L2 was the following:
1 -Point & Click
2 -Rare Drops
3 -Time required to Level
4 -Adena Farmers & Bots
Each player is effected by these things in varying ways. For me, the only one that really bothers me is #4, but I see the same stuff to different degrees in each and every MMO. Welcome to the 21st century, where immediate gratification has replaced the enjoyment of simply playing a game.
What am I rambling about now, not sure =) Guess I've also thought L2 was the most under-rated PvP game in NA, and still feel that way. I also won't accept PvP as being a niche market, I accept "Free for All" as being a niche market, but L2 is only FFA in theory, not in actuality.
Perhaps because I took a break for a few years and tried all these other MMO's do I make these comments. I return to L2 after a 2 year break only to have my original feelings confirmed about the game and am surpised the large numbers of players that enjoy PvP don't return. There is no PvP game out there today that is better, period!
I also won't accept PvP as being a niche market, I accept "Free for All" as being a niche market, but L2 is only FFA in theory, not in actuality.
I think this might be more the truth. Still, I'm not convinced that most people want pvp in games. However, I think it's FFA that usually scares people away as they don't get a choice.
Still, this is a FFA pvp game. It does have penalties that "hinder" pvp and I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not. My first thought is that "it is" good. But then there are so many instances where you need to get rid of someone and you have to deal with the whole penalty issue.
Plus, say you pk several people, you can seriously "gimp" your character as the penalties can be a huge issue to deal with.
PvP is definitely niche, especially among MMO players. Yes, WoW has PvP, but it has very little consequence and very little impact. I'd wager that most players don't actually go out seeking it, it simply happens to them (judging from what the WoW players here say).
Even in EQ2, the PvP server has its fans and has its playerbase, but its one of the least popular servers. (Ironically, the heaviest-population server is the RP server.). Does PvP have to be niche? Absolutely not. The problems in L2, though, are legion. On the one hand, we have a grind so tedious (some may say harsh), classes so imbalanced, and gameplay so devoid of content that few really want to engage in mass PvP where they run the risk of serious loss.
Were the L2 world a little more forgiving, or engaging, or rewarding, or *something*, then perhaps it would attract, and retain, more players than it does.
the unbalanced classes, have been for over 3 years!!! and the lack of content is a real killer... why the hell dont ncsoft jus fix archers?? every other class is fine up to a point, archers are SO glaringly obvious, as it is i DONT wanna play an archer just for the end game, archers KILL the endgame experience as they are, who the hell wants to play some idiot shooting bits of wood at people??
Theres the reason why myself and others will probably leave the game, im hoping the zerg of archers isnt as bad as i think it is in the end game in this game.
One thing - if I saw devs all over the forum, I must admit I'd ask myself why they were trolling rather than doing their job. The fact aside that the devs are clearly not in NA and probably don't care too much about our input (if at all), even if they were, it's not their job to make their presence known on the forums.
That's one of the many things the CM is supposed to be doing.
It's not the Dev's job to even read the forums (although they very well may in their spare time), it's not their job to know about (or heaven forbid listen to) every player whine there is.
PS: No, all other classes are not "fine up to a point". The problem is not with archers (as elaborated at LENGTH elsewhere) or with bows for that matter. The problem is in the basic movement mechancis, it's in the lack of any sort of melee lock-in for ranged classes, it's in the way the buffs and item bonuses stack, it's in the odds of OEing a weapon vs the odds of OEing an armor, etc.
L2 was my first on line game and I quit after about 8 months. Issues with grinding, bots, farmers, and lack of quests drove me out. Moved to EQ2 when it was released and played for a very long time and got bored. Played WOW for a few months, but hated the graphics. SWG was not very interesting. With nothing to do I reactivated my account on L2. I started a new character and I am enjoying the graphics, but I will only stay until Warhammer On line comes out. I could not play L2 for a long time do to the lack of interesting quests and ridiculous prices on gear, but for a time killer it is not that bad.
One thing - if I saw devs all over the forum, I must admit I'd ask myself why they were trolling rather than doing their job. The fact aside that the devs are clearly not in NA and probably don't care too much about our input (if at all), even if they were, it's not their job to make their presence known on the forums.
That's one of the many things the CM is supposed to be doing.
It's not the Dev's job to even read the forums (although they very well may in their spare time), it's not their job to know about (or heaven forbid listen to) every player whine there is.
PS: No, all other classes are not "fine up to a point". The problem is not with archers (as elaborated at LENGTH elsewhere) or with bows for that matter. The problem is in the basic movement mechancis, it's in the lack of any sort of melee lock-in for ranged classes, it's in the way the buffs and item bonuses stack, it's in the odds of OEing a weapon vs the odds of OEing an armor, etc.
But you know what?
On the SOE EQ2 Official boards, we have an Art Team Dev that regularly posts, letting us know what Sony's Art Team has in store for us for EQ2.
We have a Lore Dev that posts regularly that answers questions about in-game Lore.
We have a Tradeskill Dev that posts regularly to tell us about ideas and upcoming changes to the tradeskill system.
Posting on the forums, taking feedback from players... it *is* part of their job!
Do they post every day? No.
Do they have huge post counts? No, they say what they need to say, when they need to say it. They field a few questions, make some comments and updates, and that's it.
I can say one thing, SOE learned a lot between EQ1, SWG and now in how to treat with, and deal with, their player community.
While I'm sure its simply smoke and mirrors and marketing technique and all that sort of stuff, the EQ2 Devs actually make me feel like I'm a customer of theirs, and that they care about their product.
One thing - if I saw devs all over the forum, I must admit I'd ask myself why they were trolling rather than doing their job. The fact aside that the devs are clearly not in NA and probably don't care too much about our input (if at all), even if they were, it's not their job to make their presence known on the forums.
That's one of the many things the CM is supposed to be doing.
It's not the Dev's job to even read the forums (although they very well may in their spare time), it's not their job to know about (or heaven forbid listen to) every player whine there is.
PS: No, all other classes are not "fine up to a point". The problem is not with archers (as elaborated at LENGTH elsewhere) or with bows for that matter. The problem is in the basic movement mechancis, it's in the lack of any sort of melee lock-in for ranged classes, it's in the way the buffs and item bonuses stack, it's in the odds of OEing a weapon vs the odds of OEing an armor, etc.
But you know what?
On the SOE EQ2 Official boards, we have an Art Team Dev that regularly posts, letting us know what Sony's Art Team has in store for us for EQ2.
We have a Lore Dev that posts regularly that answers questions about in-game Lore.
We have a Tradeskill Dev that posts regularly to tell us about ideas and upcoming changes to the tradeskill system.
Posting on the forums, taking feedback from players... it *is* part of their job!
Do they post every day? No.
Do they have huge post counts? No, they say what they need to say, when they need to say it. They field a few questions, make some comments and updates, and that's it.
I can say one thing, SOE learned a lot between EQ1, SWG and now in how to treat with, and deal with, their player community.
While I'm sure its simply smoke and mirrors and marketing technique and all that sort of stuff, the EQ2 Devs actually make me feel like I'm a customer of theirs, and that they care about their product.
I have to agree with this. Even in the "Lord of the Rings" game, the devs seem to talk to the players about what is coming up, any issues that they are having, etc.
It's kind of nice to feel like you are part of a larger community in which the devs are keeping you informed of what to look for in "the future".
I wonder if they do this on the Korean site though.
I wonder if there is interaction between the L2 team and fan base on the Korean boards. Given the language difference, comparing SOE on a NA board, isn't exactly fair to a Korean company on a NA board. I don't disagree with your point, just saying.
EQII is a great game. Too bad they don't take PvP very seriously, as the same exact issues discussed in PvP beta exist today. PvE is its focus, but what else is new.
EQII is a great game. Too bad they don't take PvP very seriously, as the same exact issues discussed in PvP beta exist today. PvE is its focus, but what else is new.
True... I played on one of the Zek servers as a part-time thing in EQ1, but, reading the boards then and reading them now, and also having played other PvP games since then, I realize that balancing classes for PvE *and* PvP (especially a game with more classes than this one, not to mention the ability to select a race in addition to a class) is a monumental task.
SOE does make some no-brainer mistakes with their PvP set-up, and the dependence (or prevalence) of gear is something of a detraction... but, often, tactics and planning can make up for those sorts of disparities.
Then again, at the end of the day, EQ/EQ2 was built with the old table-top RPGs in mind, basically a social event where you and some friends get together to defeat evil and gain fame and fortune. It was never really meant to be competitive.