does anyone else miss the drops on death? i mean sure it can suck if u drop something, but if someone else drops something then its time to jump up and down!
i rly miss this because by luck was the only way i used to be able to make money, but now no one can drop anything
the risk is good too it gives the game something to watch out for
I'll pass on drop on death, I am someone who has frequent crashes, or internet interruption and exp loss is painful enough without the loss of an item.
I would say that up until B grade, I didn't like the dropping upon death but could deal with it. Heck, I even permanently lost my Karmian top when I was in C grade. Not thrilled but was an interesting session to run back to the Antharas Cave area (back then you didn't just port there) in order to not only find that it was gone but also to find that I was going to die a second time!
However, now that I have some S grade I have to say that I don't miss dropping items at all. Unlike some people in the game who think the economy is fun, I don't. The idea of having to come up with many, many, many millions to replace a +3 S ring of "Uber Protection" is not my idea of fun! :eek:
Dont really miss the felling of droping mygear but It has changed alot.
first when I die now I dont get as stressed out as a I used to and thats a bad thing btw, becuse know I just think "dying" is a "SP investment"
When I killed someone I allways hope for a drop or something and now that is gone to.
Even as I am what people might call a of carebear no droping on death toke away a piece of L2 for me, and moved the game a another step to something pink and soft
That or I don't have millions to throw away when trained/pked by botmasters.
I just finished to gather my tallum set and I'm left with 2,5kk. I now need A jewelry. I don't see how dropping would be exciting. More... game stopping...
but wouldnt u like to walk into a droped ag item someday?
w/e
im just saying i liked it is all lol
cept when i died, but all good things have a bad side
You can. There are always those people that don't want to do their sin eaters. A person on my server dropped an antharas ring because he didn't bother.. imagine gettin that drop.
i would much rather keep the one piece of +6 armor that i tried so hard to get, than i would pick up someones BW gloves
NC tried it, for whatever reasons they decided to change it and sa to say, they will just continue to do whatever they want more or less regardless of what we say anyway :P
does anyone else miss the drops on death?
i say bring it back >.<
I miss it too. Frankly the game went in the way of a carebear recently.
Some of the things that irk me in the current situation are:
No items dropped on death,
No more reason to keep a Perma-red for the fun of it
Don't like the Rifts being instanced
Easily locatable Demon weapons even though thus far I've never even touched one of em
there are a whole bunch more, but why bother to list them all at this point :eek:
I say rewind some game mechanics back to Chronicle 3 status
yeah lol and making weapons not drop-able on death with augements! wth is that. so disappointing. a grade perma reds with ++ soul bows and no armor. boy thats fun.
imo make it so that augmented items can be dropped, and when they do the aug is taken off. just make the augmentation cost a bit more to make up for the loss of the un-augment cost, because you know people would never use the NPC if you could just drop and pick up for free to un-aug.
sorry to go off topic, i personally miss the drop on death too even tho i only got 6 months of it in C2 before a long break, still made the game way more interesting.
yea, i mean u never knew what to expect. U could be lvling one day and find an sls or something
my face would always light up when i saw a weapon on the ground that i could sell for $$$ :)
Ok, but what about if you lose your S top? Or even several of your S items? That is significant money. Sure, "finding" is always fun.
But losing an item that will take quite a long time can gimp your character for a while. And losing several higher items could put you out of commission.
does anyone else miss the drops on death? i mean sure it can suck if u drop something, but if someone else drops something then its time to jump up and down!
i rly miss this because by luck was the only way i used to be able to make money, but now no one can drop anything
the risk is good too it gives the game something to watch out for
i say bring it back >.<
No i dont miss it and i did find it stupid from the beginning.
Dropping items on death was only another time sink because you had to farm the item back or had to reroll another char to make some money.
I think a lot ppl did quit the game when they did drop one of there very hard to get items they worked months for.
As you point it you only want it back because you like to steal someones equip that did just die before you to make a profit and dont give it back to the owner.
Sorry i think such anti social players dont belong to a MMORPG. Better go play a one player game and cheat your way up, because that would fit you more.
I have no problem dropping items while im red and over 5 PKs because thats my own fault.
But dropping items because the game crashes, server lags or other stuff is just plain stupid.
There was a tension in the game that seemed to make everything more important and vital--I'll grant that.
But the opportunity to drop things that could make you quit the game because of loss? No thanks.
Someone who worked months and months to get a helmet that was worth 10's or 100's of millions has so much more to lose than someone with a +3 bonebreaker.
Drop on death is a fundamentally stupid idea. It assumes that the root cause of the drop will be a mob death or PvP as a natural consequence of game play. Anyone who plays L2, and has half a brain, will understand that the game is rife with random disconnects, critical errors, and player exploits.
Most of my deaths this past year are due to players pulling antelopes onto my shop in Goddard. Thankfully I never dropped that pile of 100k A-SS I was trying to sell.
I miss it.
One of my best memories in this game was when i dropped my Dark Elven Bow in Execution Ground, and had to run all the way from Dion to this place, then look everywhere because of course i had no idea where it was precisely ! And the feeling i had when i finally found it was just awesome.
It was maybe one year and a half ago and i still remember it ! (and i cannot say that about a lot of things in this game, RP aside of course)
Now, of course, we're talking about a very low-grade item, now that i'm approaching B-Grade i wouldnt consider it fun anymore because the price and/or investment is out of control, but maybe something could be tweaked so that we still drop stuff, but not very important stuff ?
Most of my deaths this past year are due to players pulling antelopes onto my shop in Goddard.
IIRC turning a monster onto a player shop in town is a punishable offense - there was a discussion about this in the context of Erica's server police (or what tehy were called) exploiting their siege mercenary. Might want to bring it up in a seperate subject to get official confirmation though.
ETA: The standard answer to "drop stuff but not the important ones" is 'then only drop from inventory', the problem there obviously being that many people run around with equipment in their inventory (for example most active prophets have one armor and one robe set on them, often one acumen and a melee weapon too; let's not even get into dwarves who probably have a blunt, a pole, a bow, a bladed single-target weapon and one or two armor sets...). Then there's the idea of securing all equippable item might be an option, but some people still feel that putting stacks of consumables at stake would be too much... and now that I've had several hundred BSoEs in my inventory a few times, I must say I agree.
As a two-boxer I'm not really in much risk of losing items (->pickup->return 2/BSoE does wonders), and the death penalties are hella annoying and are certainly bothering me more than item drops ever did. But I must say, the removal of item drops was a good step, considering the value some items can take.
Dropping items makes perfect sense in the context of Prelude, where everything you had could be replaced from the store. It no longer made sense with the introduction of items that take tens of thousands of mats to make, or those that are worth billions.
Hey ! Oh !! Hey !
I just thought of something i never ever thought i would say one day, but it's now or never :p
"You dont like drop on death ? Go play WOW you carebear" :D :D :D
Hey ! Oh !! Hey !
I just thought of something i never ever thought i would say one day, but it's now or never :p
"You dont like drop on death ? Go play WOW you carebear" :D :D :D
Even a Angry post by a carebear is filled with smiles and and sillyness.
As I am a carebear It should sound like this Grazzt.
"Go and play wow you dame carebears.. Grrrr!"
PS: Grazzt a note its the Grrr! that is importent, guess you should trie it again and this time with a litle more fell to it.
IIRC turning a monster onto a player shop in town is a punishable offense - there was a discussion about this in the context of Erica's server police (or what they were called) exploiting their siege mercenary. Might want to bring it up in a seperate subject to get official confirmation though.
Wasn't exploiting. Just the merc followed wherever the castle lord went. And kill everyone in the area NOT in the defending alliance. Twas an unintended game feature. No one was banned, no items were repossessed. It was however patched 2 days later. Only time the Koreans gave Na immediate service ^^
Farmer took massive losses(As did real players, but that was the point.)
I do miss item drop on death though. Used to be the only way to hurt farmers/botters. Now all you can do is annoy them. And yes, I have dropped A gear. Isn't war grand?
Actually it was exploiting because ncsoft declared it exploiting. Whether or not anyone got banned is besides the point. But they have said if it gets done again, you can be banned.
Like that raid boss exploit... it was one but those that did it never got in trouble.
Most of my deaths this past year are due to players pulling antelopes onto my shop in Goddard. Thankfully I never dropped that pile of 100k A-SS I was trying to sell.
Erm, your talking about the 1/2 hp Antelopes? I never ever recall them being Aggro. Social, yes, but not Aggro.
So in this case, I'd like to quote a line from movie fugitive: "Sir, Do you wanna Change your Bull**** story?"
Hey ! Oh !! Hey !
I just thought of something i never ever thought i would say one day, but it's now or never :p
"You dont like drop on death ? Go play WOW you carebear" :D :D :D
LOL, my thoughts exactly.. do you know of people who quit becuase of it? They probably went to WoW so they can be carebear..
I love the idea of drops on death.. this is a game right?? I've lost many equipment to death, had clan wars over lost items.. Seems like a NON-CAREBEAR kinda world.
L2 is designed to cover a wide player base, from role-players to PvP freaks. So, assuming that players who do not wish to lose their hard-acquired gear over a death to a mob or a pker means they are carebears --who can be accomodated only by WoW-- is equal to plain stupidity.
The days of making money taking advantage of players' drops upon death are over. So now you have either to get your brains to work and see how you will make adena or e-bay. Lazy [bacon] will do the last, while the rest will do what many of us have been doing all this time: work hard.
if they asked for it back nicely and said please and [censored] id give it back, then making a new friend that can trust me
Except it wouldn't be asked nicely.
You'd get a PM from someone "Give it back, or we war your entire alliance until you quit"... and even after you give it back (when 15 of your clanmates suddenly get PK'd by S-level archer parties), they kill you off a few more times, maybe taking some of your gear, until they leave you alone.
if they asked for it back nicely and said please and [censored] id give it back, then making a new friend that can trust me
and you realize that a lot of times you never know who's item it is, seeing as how once they release to town, its not like their name is still sitting over the item.
regardless, they olbviously changed it to no drops on death for a reason, just gonna hafta deal with it.
if u cant replace gear/or just to dumb to make cash... l2 isnt the first choice to play...
drop on death is the only way to get the scum out of catas or clean hunting spots...
it was 1 of the best parts of the game and make BH's at least "usefull"... (or powerfull with tons of qhp/ghp they can carry)
if u cant replace gear/or just to dumb to make cash... l2 isnt the first choice to play...
drop on death is the only way to get the scum out of catas or clean hunting spots...
it was 1 of the best parts of the game and make BH's at least "usefull"... (or powerfull with tons of qhp/ghp they can carry)
ya because its so easy to replace a baium ring, ant queen, zaken and frintezza.
Ok, having no drop on death allows bots to have high grade sets, that's kinda new. But the best way to get rid of bots is not to train them, pk them or whatever takes your playtime and just postpones their farming/pexing session a bit. Just /petition.
I have a Tallum set and I don't want to have to reroll a TH to train bots to get random stuff to sell to get my set back after I was pked/trained by a nice guy that enjoys the drop on death too and want to share his fun with me. Sure it adds some adrenaline pumping, but the frustration of losing a part of my gear would be greater than the dim joy of getting a trinket from a bot.
I'm -4% pked by botmasters who want the monopoly of Dark Omens to make effective poles in order to PL members of the biggest allies of my server (when money is at stake, they don't laugh, they aren't nice). That's disgusting enough thank you. If I lose some parts of my gear I would just vomit on my keyboard, cancel my account and switch off the computer.
if u cant replace gear/or just to dumb to make cash... l2 isnt the first choice to play...
drop on death is the only way to get the scum out of catas or clean hunting spots...
it was 1 of the best parts of the game and make BH's at least "usefull"... (or powerfull with tons of qhp/ghp they can carry)
Well, no, you can't make gameplay decisions based on our "unmentionables".
Player base has to be thought of first. If it is a good idea and would make the game more fun then sure, have drop on death.
And I still say that making money isn't a problem but making the amount of cash that one would have to have in order to consistantly replace A and S grade items would require quite a bit of dedication.
I tend to wonder if the majority of the playerbase is interested in that amount of "dedication". There is a difference between having an easy game, a hard core game, and masochistic game.
At some point, someone has to say "is this fun, will this make players 'want' to play this game".
if they asked for it back nicely and said please and [censored] id give it back, then making a new friend that can trust me
Except it wouldn't be asked nicely.
You'd get a PM from someone "Give it back, or we war your entire alliance until you quit"... and even after you give it back (when 15 of your clanmates suddenly get PK'd by S-level archer parties), they kill you off a few more times, maybe taking some of your gear, until they leave you alone.
What does it even matter what you drop, dropping mithril stockings when I was 35 hurt as much then (c1) as a DC robe would hurt now. Sure I have alternate armor replacements but it would still hurt.
And yeah yeah I know I'm sure in that case the clan would help but that's besides the point. I don't like losing stuff.
Nobody likes losing stuff. I seriously doubt out there, in a basement some sweaty guy is cheering that he dropped his epic jewels set. With the mob trainers, farmer dwarves, or the raid zergs running around. Who would want item drop?
*Raises hand*
Item drop always hurt unmanned parties more then it ever did live ones. Death is preventive in every case. Losing that you have empowered bot accounts and farmer characters.
The one time you do lose something, it blows. But lets be real. Unless its a drac bow or a boss jewel you can probably replace it in a few days. If it IS a drac bow or a boss jewel your clan/alliance can help you out.
I realize this is rhetoric that has been said a thousand times before, but the fear of losing items is really unfounded. Making money, like exp in L2. Isn't as bad as it used to be.
But, obviously the koreans do not share my views. >.>
Nobody likes losing stuff. I seriously doubt out there, in a basement some sweaty guy is cheering that he dropped his epic jewels set. With the mob trainers, farmer dwarves, or the raid zergs running around. Who would want item drop?
*Raises hand*
Item drop always hurt unmanned parties more then it ever did live ones. Death is preventive in every case. Losing that you have empowered bot accounts and farmer characters.
The one time you do lose something, it blows. But lets be real. Unless its a drac bow or a boss jewel you can probably replace it in a few days. If it IS a drac bow or a boss jewel your clan/alliance can help you out.
I realize this is rhetoric that has been said a thousand times before, but the fear of losing items is really unfounded. Making money, like exp in L2. Isn't as bad as it used to be.
But, obviously the koreans do not share my views. >.>
What makes you think that a farmer losing the B grade armor they have hurts them... Do you think that a party that does nothing but make money for a living by not even being at the comp will hurt more than an active player losing something that hes/she has saved up for months?
I remember when i used to train them in the past, id make nothing more than a few B grade pieces of armor a day. And with most of these cheaters running multiple parties... replacing these items must be a piece of cake.
Death is not preventable in every case... remember back when we HAD drops on death how many people lost items due to reasons totally out of their control, namely LAG. Even in the case of a mage crit from mobs when you're not at full HP.
And nothing is worse than losing a very valuable piece of equipment to an enemy...
What makes you think that a farmer losing the B grade armor they have hurts them... Do you think that a party that does nothing but make money for a living by not even being at the comp will hurt more than an active player losing something that hes/she has saved up for months?
I remember when i used to train them in the past, id make nothing more than a few B grade pieces of armor a day. And with most of these cheaters running multiple parties... replacing these items must be a piece of cake.
Death is not preventable in every case... remember back when we HAD drops on death how many people lost items due to reasons totally out of their control, namely LAG. Even in the case of a mage crit from mobs when you're not at full HP.
And nothing is worse than losing a very valuable piece of equipment to an enemy...
You say that but you support drops on death... do you ever want to get out of B grade?
yea...a big way i made momney was by people or bots dropping stuff
if u let urself die that just shows how weak u r
if this would affect u greatly then u must suck cause u die alot
dont wanna drop? dont die
I made lots of money that way too, don't get me wrong, but i also caused a lot of people grief when i trained real people in catacombs and took their hard earned gear. I was the guy running through catacombs training everybody i could, i'm a griefer.
Imagine how a person would feel if they dropped one of thier items that they have worked for months to get... to lag, then somebody, maybe even a farmer comes up and picks it up.
Imagine if you're fighting mobs in a catacomb, get trained and stunned and drop it to somebody.
Imagine if you were fighting 2 mobs at a high level spot and somebody comes along and stuns you until the mob kills you. Or he stuns you out of your last bsoe and you cant run away.
Imagine yourself fighting an enemy and you run into a mob, you keep fighting the enemy but the mob gets the last hit and you drop a expensive gift for them.
Each of these situations are very possible and many times hard to avoid.
If you want to make money, you now have to do it the way every other game makes you do it. We were lucky that we had a system like that where we could make money off of other peoples grief, be it farmers or real people.
Whether or not it can be replaced is not an issue. Its that if you keep replacing the gear you lose you'll never move forward. The point is that this affects end game players greatly, especially those not in huge alliances that try to succeed with a smaller crowd and have a harder time obtaining things.
What i mean by all this is this affects real players a lot more than farmers.
so why dont u use healing potions? why dont u bsoe? why dont u bring friends to help? why dont u lvl up so simple mobs cant kill u when ur chasing after someone?
each one could be avoided, you just want it to be incredibly easy
whats the fun in that?
it makes the game so...weak and easy. No challenge, no risks...nothing
and what if ur chasing someone, and they run into mobs (usualyu its because their in front of u being a [censored]) and then they drop something for u...thats more likely to happen then the mobs ignoring him and going 4 u
Bsoes you dont always have and dont always save you either.
Friends cant always get there fast enough.
Ok so somebody else runs into mobs and die, so THEY lose something they have worked hard to get, harder than any farmers to get thier [censored] gear... I don't see your argument.
And I didnt mean somebody else running into mobs, i mean in many cases while you're chasing somebody a mob moves and aggros you. There are many situations possible... gimme a break.
Or you're peacefully exping and somebody sneaks up on you to gank you. You're in the middle of fighting a mob, do you sit there and finish killing the mob and let the person kill you? Or do you switch to the person and try to kill him first? What if the mob crits you while you're fighting... Should i bsoe because i have a mob on me and i risk losing hundreds of millions of adena to the enemy if i were to be unlucky?
i almost never die because i know how to prevent it
You never crash, you never lag, you never drop your connection at an inopportune moment? Those are the chief causes of PvE death among most players. o.0
u wont lose gear if someone kills u while u are hitting a mob, theyll go red
All provided that they get last hit - which many can easily prevent by using a client modification or third party software.
What makes you think that a farmer losing the B grade armor they have hurts them... Do you think that a party that does nothing but make money for a living by not even being at the comp will hurt more than an active player losing something that hes/she has saved up for months?
I remember when i used to train them in the past, id make nothing more than a few B grade pieces of armor a day. And with most of these cheaters running multiple parties... replacing these items must be a piece of cake.
Death is not preventable in every case... remember back when we HAD drops on death how many people lost items due to reasons totally out of their control, namely LAG. Even in the case of a mage crit from mobs when you're not at full HP.
And nothing is worse than losing a very valuable piece of equipment to an enemy...
Are farmers in Bgrade anymore? Where are you grinding? Do you even hunt in IT? Do exp in Hotsprings? Do you raid? No my friend. Farmers now raid, bot, and powerlevel with S grade and high enchanted gear without fear. They used to be in Bgrade, was all they could afford to replace if they lost it. It kept them in check and gave legit players a slight gear advantage. Replacing gear is easy for them, but they hate it. They hate it when they have to spend 200mil of their revenue on re-equipping trains. Thats 200 dollars lost for them, the one thing that hurts and deters them. Profit loss. Its the only way you can push them out of an area, the only way you gain leverage on them.
The lag issue is understandable. Even I am currently experiencing god awful spikes on Bartz right now. I will concede there.
Magic crits and poor jewels are no excuse. You're either hunting out of your level, or hunting without resist buffs. Both of which are under your control.
Yes, I know. Read up on Bloodsoul on Bartz. 24/7 foreign raid farmers. They never war us when we raid so we have to go red when they come up to steal our boss. I've lost jewels and armor because they don't care about exp. As they bot in their offhours. They just keep coming racking up karma going for our reds. Lesigh.
Are farmers in Bgrade anymore? Where are you grinding? Do you even hunt in IT? Do exp in Hotsprings? Do you raid? No my friend. Farmers now raid, bot, and powerlevel with S grade and high enchanted gear without fear. They used to be in Bgrade, was all they could afford to replace if they lost it. It kept them in check and gave legit players a slight gear advantage. Replacing gear is easy for them, but they hate it. They hate it when they have to spend 200mil of their revenue on re-equipping trains. Thats 200 dollars lost for them, the one thing that hurts and deters them. Profit loss. Its the only way you can push them out of an area, the only way you gain leverage on them.
Thats is true, but remember that this is because of the no drop rule. Remove the no drop rule and farmers will go back to their old gear to minimize their losses.
And honestly on Kain we barely have raid farmers. And our bots are mostly in B/A grade...
Magic crits and poor jewels are no excuse. You're either hunting out of your level, or hunting without resist buffs. Both of which are under your control.
But you cant expect everybody in the game to have the best jewels they can get at any time. You are correct that it is under your control. Although in some cases you find yourself with 2 mobs on your, and aren't full HP but they still land a nice crit and kill you. I see it as stupid to have to worry about getting the best jewels you can get just so you dont drop an item when you get that random unlucky mage crit.
Yes, I know. Read up on Bloodsoul on Bartz. 24/7 foreign raid farmers. They never war us when we raid so we have to go red when they come up to steal our boss. I've lost jewels and armor because they don't care about exp. As they bot in their offhours. They just keep coming racking up karma going for our reds. Lesigh.
Very little would change if drops on death were implemented again. Depending on what gear they are in they can just go back to Avadon and an augmented SOES like the old days, no big loss to them.
Very little would change if drops on death were implemented again. Depending on what gear they are in they can just go back to Avadon and an augmented SOES like the old days, no big loss to them.
Much would change. I wouldn't have to worry about a farmer necro Deathspike me for 2k with his +5 Arcana mace. Bot enforcers would be dealt with easier. Like I said, gives legit players a slight advantage.
But I digress. With Augments and soon armor enchantments in in Ct1 I think the game has moved too far for item drop anymore.
"if ur lvling, and IF a player that hates u comes, and IF you cant finish the mob ur killing, and IF u happen to be low hp and mp, and IF u happen to be slower, and IF he has ranged attacks, and IF he estimated when u have 10 hp left (so the mob that u kill hundreds of that u couldnt even finish which normaly takes seconds to kill one), and then IF the mob is fast enough to kill u, and then IF u happen to drop at all, and IF it happens to be the most valuable item out of everything in ur inventory, and then IF he doesnt give it back depending who he is or w/e"
u put it under the harshest conditions and use that as ur response
"if ur lvling, and IF a player that hates u comes, and IF you cant finish the mob ur killing, and IF u happen to be low hp and mp, and IF u happen to be slower, and IF he has ranged attacks, and IF he estimated when u have 10 hp left (so the mob that u kill hundreds of that u couldnt even finish which normaly takes seconds to kill one), and then IF the mob is fast enough to kill u, and then IF u happen to drop at all, and IF it happens to be the most valuable item out of everything in ur inventory, and then IF he doesnt give it back depending who he is or w/e"
u put it under the harshest conditions and use that as ur response
and IF you realize you're a (censored) and need to stop posting.
"if ur lvling, and IF a player that hates u comes, and IF you cant finish the mob ur killing, and IF u happen to be low hp and mp, and IF u happen to be slower, and IF he has ranged attacks, and IF he estimated when u have 10 hp left (so the mob that u kill hundreds of that u couldnt even finish which normaly takes seconds to kill one), and then IF the mob is fast enough to kill u, and then IF u happen to drop at all, and IF it happens to be the most valuable item out of everything in ur inventory, and then IF he doesnt give it back depending who he is or w/e"
u put it under the harshest conditions and use that as ur response
Better be silent and let people think you are a [Censored] than speak and remove all doubt.
And honestly on Kain we barely have raid farmers. And our bots are mostly in B/A grade...
On Gustin we had a clan [actually an alliance] of raid boss farmers back in C4, when the drop upon death system still worked. Well, the farmers were in A grade and with glowing weapons. Which makes me think they didn't care about dropping back then either.
Dropping on death was cool. It added to the challenge and made things fun. Who hunts alone anyways? You always have your buffbox or friends with you same as I do.
This game lost a large portion of what made it hardcore as we've gone along. We are not far from no longer losing XP on death. They've made seiging easier, they've removed drop on death, you get 5 free PKs. Its just dumb and should go back to what it was.
But everyone is so worried about losing time and time is valuable or somesuch. I have full A grade(a few days of grinding away from S so eat me) and carry anywhere from 1-3 extra weapons. I've never ebayed adena and dont care to but I am much in favor of returning to the old days.
Here's what you can do, every time you die you just roll a dice, if you roll a 5 or a 6 you have to give me one of your gear pieces, that should give you an extra challenge.
This game has become carebear, everything is easily obtained. I dont know how clans survive now with all these whiners.
Everything easily obtained? What game are you playing and how can I get in on it?!?!?!
How about throwing a Sword of Damascus (or two!) my way and then tell me how 'easy' it is to get 'everything' in this game. (last time I checked the recipe was drop only at 1/4K chance at *best*.
i am guessing alll the highest armor you have is D grade huh?
you have no idea what the consequences are if this drop-on-death system is brought back.
I can just make a toon jsut for pking and collecting items from lower lvl toon . Would you want that ?? N
If your PK count in higher than 5 you still drop. A couple of weeks back a guy got a Majestic earring from a red farmer he killed.
@CantoScav:
Who hunts alone anyways?
I do.
You always have your buffbox or friends with you same as I do.
Not quite. Many players do as you do, but not all of them. For everyone who hunts with a "box", there is another who hunts alone (because friends are not online or most of them have quitted, or there is not a second account, etc. )
I started playing the day I registered on the boards. Around lvl 29 I met a guy in-game who saved me from some mobs in Dion, a high lvl Destroyer. Despite the upgrade system, I was still in NG with a Forest bow, simply because I couldn't afford anything else. The Destroyer guy, who later became a good friend of mine, gave me adena to help me out.
So. I go to Giran to buy new armour and bow. Unfortunatelly, I couldn't buy the best, as I thought it to be back then, and got myself a Composition bow. I go back to Dion and start hunting again. A day later an Orc Shaman crits, I'm killed and drop my new bow. I go to Dion and then back to get my bow. Guess what? No bow around.
If it was fun? Yeah. I laughed so much that couldn't play for the next ten days or so.
Does this very fact alone make me a carebear? Think again.
Most of my deaths this past year are due to players pulling antelopes onto my shop in Goddard. Thankfully I never dropped that pile of 100k A-SS I was trying to sell.
Erm, your talking about the 1/2 hp Antelopes? I never ever recall them being Aggro. Social, yes, but not Aggro.
So in this case, I'd like to quote a line from movie fugitive: "Sir, Do you wanna Change your Bull**** story?"
Three times in the past year I have woken up to find my shop dead in Goddard. The shop is an unarmored level 20ish dwarf with 50k-100k A-SS for sale. It is set up near the GK, just before I go to bed.
When I do find my shop dead, it always seems to be from an antelope (I check the chat, about 750 damage), from what I assume is an AOE attack on someone nearby. I assume someone whacks the antelop, then runs into town. I don't see what being agro, or social, has to do with it.
As far as reporting this problem, I have. The GMs always ask for the name of the person that trained the mob. Since I was asleep, I don't have that info. So the crime goes unpunished.
If we still had access to the old forums and the deleted threads, the hundreds of "I'm Done" threads that used to fill the server boards would show you why the No Drop rule was put in.
When farmers lose their hard-earned gear, they replace it.
When players lose their hard-earned gear, a few get help from their clan, a few turn to Ebay.... most quit playing. The frustration isn't worth it for a crappy video game.
No need to bump that stupid thread. People saying this game is for pvp/pk/hardcore/dunnowhat have obviously skipped the most important part of the game : a long PvE grind.
And use drop on death against players that shouldn't even be there (breaking the ToS), yeah great next time suggest that every character must cut off their legs so bots can't go xp.
As always, real players would be cleared off by cheaters who think they play the game right.
L2 is a game for carebears... yeah whatever. Play Team Fortress 2, it's the same and you don't need to buy your character.
They should have left drop on death
Never had bsoes in game
never had bres in game
never had no red drop with less than 5 pks
never had sin eater in game (well maybe this one is fair)
you can't even train people anymore to make them droptheir gear
...
baaah
and now weapon augments so yuo can't drop your weapon even when red...
like what is goign on here? there really is no point in hunting a red, he is just going to bsoe the second you get close enough
Haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I never liked the new "death penalty" system myself.
Okay, it's not fun dropping items on death, but it added that edge-of-seat aspect to hunting. It made for some fun adventures and a sense of interdependency when you had to help a clannie get his maj helmet back before anyone else came along. Sometimes when roaming around you could come across a piece of armor or jewelry, or a nice stack of mats. It was an incentive to leave your good stuff at home, and hunt with only what you needed.
Above all, it was a way to hurt bots. I'm not going to get too much into it, I could rant all day about forcelogging and how a "death penalty" doesn't phase them, but I'll leave it at that.
It's an acceptable change though, but personally I felt it was for the worse. Maybe I'm biased having no boss jewelry, but that goes under "leave the good stuff at home for pve if you don't need it or accept the risk" imo.
If it was up to me (tm), I'd make it only apply to characters level 60 and below, with 61 and up being under the old rules.
I completely miss the old death penalty of dropping items, it was one of the feature that made the game hard-core and got the adreniline going. The new death penalty, although it is convient, has sacrified alot of the fear/ excitment of PvP. Fear of dying and losing yer equip, excitment of killing an gaining something.
The game is just so static without the chance to drop items, it kind of bores me. With the new agument system in place to protect weapons, I don't think it would be horrible at all to bring back the old death penalty.
I also miss gaining equipment from training the numerous unmentionables clogging up all the grinding spots in catas. :(
There are already people use the difficulty of making money in L2 as their justification (at least to themselves) of buying it instead, claiming it's "impossible", when in truth, they're just lazy. Because it is very do-able. However, dropping an S grade item that took who-knows-how-long to acquire would certainly give them a legit gripe (though not a good reason to eBay)
I think the drop on death would be fine (and a bit more exciting) if:
A. Gear wasn't so difficult to obtain, either monetarily or via questing/crafting.
B. The economy wasn't so wildly inflated
Drop on Death by itself, I think, is fine. I think higher quality gear being difficult and/or expensive, by itself, is fine.
The two combined, though - especially A-grade and up - is pushing it well into the realm of absurdity and could easily result in people leaving the game in disgust.
The risk of drop-on-death really works only into C grade. After that gear is simply too expensive or hard to come by. Not everyone has the time or resources to make a mint.
Admittedly, there is a certain satisfaction gained from taking some item or another from a wartag, but such scenarios are the minority. Usually, most such scenarios are a group of PVEing players getting specifically trained by TH or BH two grades above them, who's just looking to take gear from people.
They should have left drop on death
Never had bsoes in game
never had bres in game
never had no red drop with less than 5 pks
never had sin eater in game (well maybe this one is fair)
you can't even train people anymore to make them droptheir gear
...
baaah
and now weapon augments so yuo can't drop your weapon even when red...
like what is goign on here? there really is no point in hunting a red, he is just going to bsoe the second you get close enough
ok, hunting reds was always a waste of time anyway, fun? maybe, but a waste(except for the jolly fun the red guy has with you).
and i dont think i was the only person to get trained in a cata by a high lvl griefer and lost a piece of gear from death by mob, therefor i am glad drops are gone.
as for a red not dropping his weapon with the new augments, i think thats a good thing personally. if they run around with only their weapon and no other gear or items in thier inv, they only loose xp when they die(unless they have a bishop friend). of coarse if they do have +5 PK then theres a chance that you will get whatever they drop (if they are unlucky and drop something) it wont be thier weapon but a drop is a drop.
brez. i have mixxed fealings about that one, but i see it as an improvement. If i skill rez someone they will get all thier XP back -1% thats pretty freaking awesome i think. but when I(the bishop) die i loose alot more because often times there arent 2 bishops in a party that mean i get a 20% or scroll rez (bishops realy need the SP anyway but it takes time to get the XP back) so even though my feelings are mixxed i still say hooray for Brez!
Bsoe? if i have one (and can find it in time) i will use one in a pinch depending on the situation of coarse. but id rather take the death or sell the scroll personally. thats just me.
sin eaters are neat-o (I pretty much like all the pets), and they have been around for a long long time (i hear rumors that they can actually attack raid bosses, but have never seen it befor) i think all the adena/item drop farmers should get one (like when you are still hunting that one item you need and the mobs are dangerously close to becoming blue) as the sin eater sucks up 100% of the XP/SP you earn while hunting with them. you loose out on SP/XP but you can increase your chance of getting that item you need from mob drop.
finally because the reds "will bsoe befor you get close", you should ambush the reds instead of the other way around :P its also interesting that reds cannot soe into town (does that hold true for clan hall and castle soe as well? i dont know) so if they bsoe wont they appear outside the closest town somewhere? have someone waiting for him when he spawns (ambushes sometimes take teamwork).
but yeah still a waste of time chasing them about, but it's your time do whatever you want. :cool:
(does that hold true for clan hall and castle soe as well? i dont know)
It does not. You can be red in your castle or hall.
You can also, if the correct class(es), Silent Walk past guards while red.
As for ambushing the red... towns are fairly large. Unless you have a dozen people or so, it's unlikely that the Red will appear anywhere near the spot outside town you happen to be standing.
But, yeah.... red hunting is generally only a moral victory. Most times, you spend more doing it than you'll make.
(does that hold true for clan hall and castle soe as well? i dont know)
It does not. You can be red in your castle or hall.
You can also, if the correct class(es), Silent Walk past guards while red.
As for ambushing the red... towns are fairly large. Unless you have a dozen people or so, it's unlikely that the Red will appear anywhere near the spot outside town you happen to be standing.
But, yeah.... red hunting is generally only a moral victory. Most times, you spend more doing it than you'll make.
If the red has a summoner friend, then forget ever finding him again until he is white. Summon friend ftw!
However, dropping an S grade item that took who-knows-how-long to acquire would certainly give them a legit gripe
I rather hate that argument.
If your 76+ then you should have 2 sets of the same gear. why not, crafting is easy. All S grade comes from questing.
I think they need to reinstate drops on deaths, and lower death pen chance. death pen don't hurt bots, only normal players. 100k+ for S grade, 80k+ for A grade. what a waste of money.
but being able to train a bunch of bots = priceless!
Adding Aguments on top of not being able to drop was over kill on NCsofts part.
They should add augments for Armor, and jewelry to. Hell consumables also.
As I've stated in earlier in this thread. All catas, Pagans, MoS, Silenos/Ketra, HS, WoA being completely overrun with bots is a direct consequence of no drop policy.
AFK trains lost 100x more then any actively player character. Remove that, and watch the bots get bold.
As I've stated in earlier in this thread. All catas, Pagans, MoS, Silenos/Ketra, HS, WoA being completely overrun with bots is a direct consequence of no drop policy.
LoL, what?
So, bots weren't in these areas before.... because they could drop?
Funny, I remember seeing plenty of bot-trains with half-dressed or naked toons.
No, what brought the bots to these areas is the ever-increasing demand for Adena online. They bot here because the money is more efficient, they provide their PL services here (again, a commodity other players were willing to purchase), they farm here for whatever drops are available and hot on the market.
Most important reason? Because its easy. Everyone knows where the catas are, they don't need to go roaming for 45 minutes overland to get to their hunting spot, any idiot can set the program up, log the toons in and press the "on" button.
It was a real $%^& to hunt in Branded or Apostate back when we had drops -- really just about anywhere it was train after train. People would *claim* they're training bots, but they were training anyone they could find.
Death penalty doesn't really apply to normal players. Seriously, how often do you die in pve? But it costs profarmers a lot, whether they delevel or just get trained in our current system. I've yet to find a bot train that didn't auto-accept rez. ;D
I like a game system where death has consequences, but dropping gear for griefers was a dumb design. Specifically, it was pvp action without pvp consequences (they didn't flag, didn't go red, just ran up and fake death). I personally never dropped anything, and almost never died, but it was a source of unpleasantness.
As it is currently, death has a small chance at costing you adena and once you level up, costs you valuable exp. That's incentive enough to play well, imo.
Justifying drops on the basis of bots is bad logic - Devs should Break the bots (if they cared).
As I've stated in earlier in this thread. All catas, Pagans, MoS, Silenos/Ketra, HS, WoA being completely overrun with bots is a direct consequence of no drop policy.
LoL, what?
So, bots weren't in these areas before.... because they could drop?
Funny, I remember seeing plenty of bot-trains with half-dressed or naked toons.
No, what brought the bots to these areas is the ever-increasing demand for Adena online. They bot here because the money is more efficient, they provide their PL services here (again, a commodity other players were willing to purchase), they farm here for whatever drops are available and hot on the market.
Most important reason? Because its easy. Everyone knows where the catas are, they don't need to go roaming for 45 minutes overland to get to their hunting spot, any idiot can set the program up, log the toons in and press the "on" button.
Yes they were there, but they were hampered by constant trains of players hated farmers, and those simply looking for free gear. If the losses got too great, they left. It was simple as that.
With the policy as it is, the only thing they lose is time. And guess what? People who are paid to be on 24/7 have more of it then you do. Whos pushing bots out of now? Whos going perma red to shut down their operations? Yea, you may waste an hour or two of their time. But they're not going anywhere.
Any idiot can bot in a room. But it takes constant managing and enforcement to keep real players out of your hair.
Hell my buddies went into patriots last night, found a single empty room. And were trained out just for BEING in the cata. We killed a few, but they just kept ressing and coming. They know we're not going to waste time with what little play time we have while they have all day.
With no risk to their operations or gear. The days of a single player terrorizing a whole cata are gone. Who want to train bots and lose exp(Which trainers do, death happens frequently with 25-50 mobs on your butt)
As for adena having an ever increasing demand. You need to look up the prices on the stuff. Been falling flat for quite some time.
I'm not saying bots would disappear should drops come back. But at least we would have a way to deter them again.
Yes they were there, but they were hampered by constant trains of players hated farmers, and those simply looking for free gear. If the losses got too great, they left. It was simple as that.
With the policy as it is, the only thing they lose is time. And guess what? People who are paid to be on 24/7 have more of it then you do. Whos pushing bots out of now? Whos going perma red to shut down their operations? Yea, you may waste an hour or two of their time. But they're not going anywhere.
Any idiot can bot in a room. But it takes constant managing and enforcement to keep real players out of your hair.
Hell my buddies went into patriots last night, found a single empty room. And were trained out just for BEING in the cata. We killed a few, but they just kept ressing and coming. They know we're not going to waste time with what little play time we have while they have all day.
With no risk to their operations or gear. The days of a single player terrorizing a whole cata are gone. Who want to train bots and lose exp(Which trainers do, death happens frequently with 25-50 mobs on your butt)
As for adena having an ever increasing demand. You need to look up the prices on the stuff. Been falling flat for quite some time.
I'm not saying bots would disappear should drops come back. But at least we would have a way to deter them again.
So... given the above example, what would stop a naked TH or BH from simply training you out of the cata, again, if DoD was re-introduced?
It's not an anti-botting tactic, exclusively, it's simply an effective griefing tool. It harmed players far more than it did bots.