Its actually fashinating to see some of the differences in rules and enforcement between L2 SEA and L2 NA. Its a little hard to say whats best, but I am leaning towards the SEA ruleset making a better overall experience. Since SEA is independently managed outside of NCSoft, I wonder if NCSoft have global rules that all the brances has to adhere to, while companies that buy the rights to run the game can set their own rule standard.
Its pretty fashinating to have 2 english L2's running in the world, one run by NCSoft, the other by AsianMedia.
I don't know, but it could be that NCSoft NA is handed down basic rules from NCSoft Korea that they simply go by, while AsianMedia could sit down and say "Hey, how do we want our game to work?"
But it would so be worth it to see the first guy trying to sell soulore as d-crystals get a ban, lol.
Our friendly customer support agents are standing by to assist you in your concern. Lineage 2 is happy to serve its customers. Available from 1pm - 10pm. (GMT +8)
That ain't gonna last long...
Skill abuse - Using skill to cause grief to others or present unfair advantage
You mean using skills to PK someone or PKing someone junior your level?
its no more lame than griefing lowbie clans for clan rep.
i heard of one incident where a guy ON A SIEGE FIELD started a war because he DIED. rumor had it that he wouldnt drop tags unless the guys that dropped him gave 1500 clan rep.
were talking lucky swing, great timing, perfect ambush by a few lowbies on a siege field vs a handful of higher ups that got wiped.
i call that JUST as lame as an L2 that wont even let you train people.
its no more lame than griefing lowbie clans for clan rep.
i heard of one incident where a guy ON A SIEGE FIELD started a war because he DIED. rumor had it that he wouldnt drop tags unless the guys that dropped him gave 1500 clan rep.
were talking lucky swing, great timing, perfect ambush by a few lowbies on a siege field vs a handful of higher ups that got wiped.
i call that JUST as lame as an L2 that wont even let you train people.
Lesson of the story: Dont start [censored] unless you can handle it. Even if it is a siege, it doesnt mean that you can kill whomever you want without them retaliating. Free pvp, they can war you for having the wrong set of armor if they want to.
its no more lame than griefing lowbie clans for clan rep.
i heard of one incident where a guy ON A SIEGE FIELD started a war because he DIED. rumor had it that he wouldnt drop tags unless the guys that dropped him gave 1500 clan rep.
were talking lucky swing, great timing, perfect ambush by a few lowbies on a siege field vs a handful of higher ups that got wiped.
i call that JUST as lame as an L2 that wont even let you train people.
Lesson of the story: Dont start [censored] unless you can handle it. Even if it is a siege, it doesnt mean that you can kill whomever you want without them retaliating. Free pvp, they can war you for having the wrong set of armor if they want to.
does that mean IRL i should do a drive-by, or mass murder random people for random things? no IG its not right, and OOG its not right.
they signed up to siege, both sides. now one side is -1500 clan rep? nono, thats not how it should work.
does that mean IRL i should do a drive-by, or mass murder random people for random things? no IG its not right, and OOG its not right.
they signed up to siege, both sides. now one side is -1500 clan rep? nono, thats not how it should work.
IRL has nothing to do with it. This game is FREE pvp, you can war anyone you want for whatever reason you want. Generally, if you attack someone for whatever reason, they either retaliate or cover in fear. In this case, it is retaliation. Tough luck, but they should have known the risks. Signing to a siege has nothing to do with declaring wars. Heck, some of the castle lords automatically declare war on all attackers and some attackers declare war on all defenders. Thats how it works. There's no rules concerning wether or not you can war someone for killing you at a siege field. For all I care, it could have been in the middle of WoA, person A still killed person B, who then declared war. Simple as that.
Btw, how is it okay to lose clan rep when your enemy takes the castle then? Both sides signed to siege and after the siege one is -rep. No no, thats not how it should work O.o
Conclusion: Dont attack other people if you're not ready for war.
its no more lame than griefing lowbie clans for clan rep.
i heard of one incident where a guy ON A SIEGE FIELD started a war because he DIED. rumor had it that he wouldnt drop tags unless the guys that dropped him gave 1500 clan rep.
were talking lucky swing, great timing, perfect ambush by a few lowbies on a siege field vs a handful of higher ups that got wiped.
i call that JUST as lame as an L2 that wont even let you train people.
u dont lose clan points if your 1 way wared. so i dont see the problem, if his dumb enough to declare back then his own problem.
If his too low to handle himself on the siege field then he should go exp till he can lol
Nice rules. But anyone else note that you get a permanent ban for ebaying, but only a 30 day suspension for botting? Seems to me botting should get as harsh a penalty...no warning necessary.
The most obvious assumptions would be that either NCsoft does not have the support staff to handle the enforcement of those kinds of rules, or they do not feel it would be profitable to enforce those kinds of rules.
Also keep in mind that the Asian gaming culture stereotype is the polar opposite of the North American... ahem I mean the lolinternational stereotype.
Nice rules. But anyone else note that you get a permanent ban for ebaying, but only a 30 day suspension for botting? Seems to me botting should get as harsh a penalty...no warning necessary.
It makes sense if you think about it for a little bit. SEA seems to actually care about keeping customers instead of just pulling in new ones to replace the ones that /emoragequit. So if you make the mistake of botting, then you have to take a 30 day time out. This 30 day time out would mean nothing on our servers since we do not have constantly awsome events, but for the typical asian gamer it would mean they are out of touch with a large group of their peers and their social life would suffer >_>
If you blantantly cheat and attempt to support the third party market which encourages foriegners to infest your server and bot, then you get banned. There is no excuse for ebaying.
My only question is why is the whole site in english?
Because that area of the world has a large amounts of native languages so instead of translating the game and the site into just a few niche ones, they use english since it is taught to everybody at a very early age.
Nice rules. But anyone else note that you get a permanent ban for ebaying, but only a 30 day suspension for botting? Seems to me botting should get as harsh a penalty...no warning necessary.
It makes sense. Ebayers are generally indirectly responsible for more bots than a botter himself. ^_^; IMO between the two of them, it's the far worse offense.
Botting and ebaying are so intertwined that you cannot and should not differentiate the two. But if you must, then consider that ebaying is ancillary to botting. How do those adena sellers arrive at excesses of adena to sell? Botting. How are those high end accounts that are sold and bought achieved for the most part? Botting. Sure, there are some cases where players quit the game and decide to cash in by selling their accounts, but I make no assumptions about the legitimacy of the levels they attained. Once a cheat, always a cheat, and usually, a multi-faceted cheat.
Ebaying is actually worse than most forms of botting, they got it right.
You are referring to botting in the powerleveling sense, I take it? Some player that simply wants to use an outside program to level, correct?
How is this any different than a party of our automated friends? Sure the goals of the violators is different, but this isn't the American penal system. You don't need to establish mens rea here. The only thing that should matter is that they willfully violated the EULA and should be banned, not given an infinite number of chances to do the same thing. After all, the more chances you give, the more likely that these violaters will get better at not getting caught. Bot designers learn and adapt, too.
How is this any different than a party of our automated friends? Sure the goals of the violators is different, but this isn't the American penal system. You don't need to establish mens rea here. The only thing that should matter is that they willfully violated the EULA and should be banned, not given an infinite number of chances to do the same thing. After all, the more chances you give, the more likely that these violaters will get better at not getting caught. Bot designers learn and adapt, too.
Because the other lineage 2 services (every-single-one-but-ours) actually do something about a botter. If you try to bot and get a 30 day time out the next day, and then you do it 30 days later, you just paid for 2 months of l2 without playing it at all. Are you going to try and bot for a week on month 3? Chances are low.
People will not keep trying to bot but they will keep playing the game. L2 can be very fun after all. This is the opposite of our servers. Bots do not get punished on a regular basis. There is NO EXCUSE for level 80 hunting grounds to have bots in them. NONE. How can months of nonstop botting go unnoticed? IT CAN'T.
If dino island wasn't such a pain to get to, it would be infested as well. Once a bot group realizes they can over come this little setback by botting up a summoner, then they will take over that place too.
What you describe is true: Ebaying leads to botting, at least to the most of botting that's troublesome. Therefore, being the root of the problem, it's the part that needs to get looked at and punished severely.
Ebaying is also effortless and fast. At least someone botting will have to put in a serious effort, maintain their bots, equip, manage, get to spots, avoid detection, avoid players/trains, etc. etc. and even with that it takes a long long time to get anywhere and its rarely all that profitable considering you have to pay monthly for not only each account, but also the bot program on each.
Ebayers just instantly get ahead with a swipe of their creditcard, they can get any item in the game that a botter wouldn't be able to and fund their character without effort.
Also as a note, most of the money available on money seller sites comes from people quitting, money server transfer (you transfer 2 billion from Erica to Bartz, you get 1,5 billion on barts, adena company makes 500 million effortlessly) and high level players making adena off castles, highlevel raids, etc. which is then sold on ebay.
TBH I hope they speed up the process of getting credit cards worked out and all that.
Having played RF:O in the Phillipines, I can say that the average gamers over there are rather nice people, who do love to PvP but its alot less ..well.. personal then the American counterparts.
Would be a nice server to play on if you could get the same start or "about" the same start as everyone else.
Also they really do enforce those rules very, very strictly. RFO had a weekly list of suspensions, and banned accounts, listing all character names, and the reason they were suspended/banned... thus leading to peer pressure on the individual.
I agree with SinPalabras that ebaying and botting are really intertwined. RMT sellers make money in two ways: selling adena to it's customers and providing in-game things to buy with that adena. That's why they try so hard to farm the epic RBs, so they always have epic jewelry for sale so their RMT customers can buy them.
We would probably be really surprised at how little total adena is needed to run a RMT company, since a big part of the adena they sell comes back to them by players buying their items in-game.
RMT sellers also usually offer power-leveling services and the selling of already leveled accounts. All of those areas can benefit greatly from having bots. Since there are so many bots running that participate in RMT, they provide invaluable income to the companies that make bot programs. And since the RMT sellers make good money, they don't mind so much paying the bot programmers instead of finding ways to buypass the bot-program-cards like most players do.
Think of RMT sellers and bot programmers as the two supporting pilars of the same building. If you take one out, the building will come out of balance and come crashing down, effectively taking out the other pilar on it's way down.
It is really tempting to move there. I was gonna sign up for beta, but then I saw that you have to live in those 3 countries to play :(
Though some of the rules are kinda lame, their stance towards botting and ebaying is redeeming.
CommentAuthorSulisRaine CommentTimeJun 22nd 2007
We have heard your concerns and we have already raised this issue with NC Soft.
Right now, discussions have started so that hopefully you can join Singapore, Malaysia and Philippines in the SEA Server.
Unfortunately, these things do take time and it might take a while before any final decisions are made.
In the meantime, please continue sending in your request as it would help validate our case, and we would make it a point to update you on any developments on the matter.
Afaik they'll be restricting access to only people from those 3 countries, in accordance with NCSoft.
As was just posted, as well as a few other tidbits, they are currently in discussion with NCSoft to bring it to other markets....
Most notable being Australia & New Zealand. If that occurs, you'll be able to access the servers. (Although you can access them now just fine.. if you know the tricks ;P Few got into the closed beta)
That means, when you come back to the game after your ban, you've got *nothing*. No gear, no mats, no banked adena.
Welcome to being level 73 without an item to your name... hope you made some friends! Oh, wait... you were botting, you probably don't have a clan, or friends...
Now, why ban the ebayers? Because L2 is a competitive game, and it's meant to have as level a playing field as the designers could code. Getting one over on the devs by ebaying your gear from 1-80 is, well, highly destructive to that competitive spirit of the game. Since you're destroying the game... NC-SEA would rather not have you playing at all.
That means, when you come back to the game after your ban, you've got *nothing*. No gear, no mats, no banked adena.
Welcome to being level 73 without an item to your name... hope you made some friends! Oh, wait... you were botting, you probably don't have a clan, or friends...
Now, why ban the ebayers? Because L2 is a competitive game, and it's meant to have as level a playing field as the designers could code. Getting one over on the devs by ebaying your gear from 1-80 is, well, highly destructive to that competitive spirit of the game. Since you're destroying the game... NC-SEA would rather not have you playing at all.
That means, when you come back to the game after your ban, you've got *nothing*. No gear, no mats, no banked adena.
You assume that all of the items and equipment are contained under one account. I know several players for whom that simply is not true. Even legit players have dual and triple box, with multiple WH's and CHW's spread across different accounts/characters. So even if one account got wiped for botting, they'd still be up and running after the suspension was lifted, with resources pooled from one of the other accounts.
Like I said in an earlier post...suspending accounts only allows the violators a chance to get better at testing and breaking the system, and sa***uarding against reprisals. If the current mass adena marketing pm's aren't proof that they are getting better at what they are doing, I don't know what is.
That's why I say ban the botters AND the eBayers. Let's not split hairs over "good" botters and "bad" botters.
I fully agree with RMT, botting and such, mostly out of game rules.
But rules like "Use of ASCII to illustrate lewd graphics" is a bit thin ice. "Mob-trailing" "skill abuse" and "Scamming" ... nono that would not be L2
Oh yeah, and perma ban for all pathblockers in Giran :p
Those rules suck. Do you really think they will do a better job of enforcing their rules than NCNA does? I bet they will have the same issues. It seems like they have alot more loop holes that botters / farmers can use to keep players from doing anything about them. On our servers, we can train the bots and take their room. Over there, you just have to petition them and hope the GMs do something.
Grass is always greener on the other side I guess.
Instructions
Download all 5 parts of the ZIP version in the same folder. Extract the contents on a temporary folder and click 'setup.exe' to install the Lineage II South-East Asia game client.
they have a direct download of the game on their website. no fileplanet middleman.
am i the only one who realized this?
ebaying is just as bad as botting.
difference is the money the game-company makes
1 ebayer pays 1 monthly fee
but it takes more than 1 bot account to supply him with adena to buy, and thus the botters pay the game company more than the ebayer does, or worded differently they make more money form the botter than the ebayer, if i was running a game company i would want them to pay me, and i'd ban a few once in a while to keep the community convinced i was doing something about it.
at least thats how i see it.
also chances are the ebayer has loads of money and can afford to lose 1 account. he might buy a new one, you never know
I hope they will open up the servers for anyone. Their site look sweat and the rules looks ok.
If they open up the servers I will be re rolling to their servers without even thinking about returning to L2 NA.
Edit:
Looks like they have just done copy&paste of this site. None of the new weapons or armor are there, skills are missing and dwarf link shows info about the orcs.
I hope they will open up the servers for anyone. Their site look sweat and the rules looks ok.
If they open up the servers I will be re rolling to their servers without even thinking about returning to L2 NA.
Edit:
Looks like they have just done copy&paste of this site. None of the new weapons or armor are there, skills are missing and dwarf link shows info about the orcs.
ASIAN MEDIA DEVELOPMENT GROUP was granted by NCsoft Corporation the right to publish, distribute, and transmit Lineage II™ The Chaotic Throne in the Philippines, Singapore, and Malaysia.
Looks like they aren't granted permission to let anyone outside of those three countries play their servers.
And yeah, their site looks like a total copy&paste from this site, all the info and images are the same. In fact, I think this site is built much better (even ignoring all the errors/things that don't work right on the l2SEA site).
well look at the possibilities
here you do some botting and you either make it to 78+ and are safe or you get banned (pretty rare you actually get banned)
here you ebay a few billion adena with absolutely zero risk of being banned
if they actually enforce their system it should work well
How do you know there are actually risks to be banned for ebaying or botting on SEA servers?
Because the rules are written on paper doesn't mean they'll be applied efficiently.
How do you know there are actually risks to be banned for ebaying or botting on SEA servers?
Because the rules are written on paper doesn't mean they'll be applied efficiently.
1. Asian gamers take gaming very seriously. So do their support teams.
2. They actually bothered to take the time to explain the rules, in the public. They went out of their way to tell the player base how things are going to be. Our support staff will basically tell you to shut up and stop emailing/calling them because what happens to other accounts are not your business, and that anyone found without a reasonable doubt (what the heck is that suppose to mean?) with be dealt with accordingly (again, more intentionally vague nonsense)