I realize there are numerous threads on this subject, but couldn't find a simple answer using search that would bring me up to date to current thinking, so thought I'd just ask. Please try not to flame ;p
Situation: You see player(s) that are obviously using a third party program, have tried sending them tells, and have observed it for days on end, no matter when you log in.
Do you?
1) Ignore it. If so, why.
2) Report it. If so, how exactly is the most effective way.
3) Kill them by training mobs. If so, what is the most effective character(s) class to do this?
4) Kill them with a dedicated Red character. If so, what class and level would you suggest?
There is really no point to killing bots anymore. A well managed and setup train is impossible to stop. They don't lose anything, and can be back up in 5 minutes.
Reporting them will achieve nothing. Nc might chime in this thread and say something about it helping them identify possible botters but that does not matter one bit. If a bot is in a place you want, you will have to kill them and pray to god they do not have someone closely watching their bots... otherwise they will kill you :)
Any reporting you do will get the same canned response from a gm. The EXACT same response.
I report it when I see it and have petitions left - it honestly doesn't take away from my levelling speed, and who knows what it's good for. Some of them have disappeared, others have stayed around for ridiculously long times.
Any reporting you do will get the same canned response from a gm. The EXACT same response.
Of course you get the same response, what would the point be if the GMs did nothing but sit there and type out handwritten messages to the players? Nothing would get done.
I report them. Sometimes through petition, usually through the support site. I always attach screenshots when I report them through website. Only once in recent memory have they been slow to remove the bots. I play on Seigehardt. I am apparently getting better reactions from NC than many others. Either it's the server, or my approach in reporting them, or they just like people who play Orcs. (j/k on that last one)
Edit: On the one they were slow on, I got so fed up I killed 4 of the bots. I left one BD standing, and he just kept doing the dances for his dead party for the next hour or 2.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
What do you use all of your petitions on lol. I probably petition once a month at most (non-3rdparty reasons).
I report it when I see it and have petitions left - it honestly doesn't take away from my levelling speed, and who knows what it's good for. Some of them have disappeared, others have stayed around for ridiculously long times.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
That is a horrible fallacy. Yes bots do get banned, but not often enough to matter. Bots should never make it to level 78+ WITH NOBLESSE. NEVER.
There are many reasons why people do not report bots. One reason is that it is NOT OUR JOB to do so. Another big one is that the active player base is too discouraged to do so. A live player reporting a bot has no incentive to report. What good does it do you to sit down, type down a list of names, and then get an auto response from a gm? The problem is not solved! The player has no idea if the situation will get better!
Paging a bot group is almost as unproductive as posting on these forums. So original poster, kill them. Train them. Pk them. By the time the bots do get banned, you will have already moved on to other hunting grounds.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
That is a horrible fallacy. Yes bots do get banned, but not often enough to matter. Bots should never make it to level 78+ WITH NOBLESSE. NEVER.
There are many reasons why people do not report bots. One reason is that it is NOT OUR JOB to do so. Another big one is that the active player base is too discouraged to do so. A live player reporting a bot has no incentive to report. What good does it do you to sit down, type down a list of names, and then get an auto response from a gm? The problem is not solved! The player has no idea if the situation will get better!
Paging a bot group is almost as unproductive as posting on these forums. So original poster, kill them. Train them. Pk them. By the time the bots do get banned, you will have already moved on to other hunting grounds.
Although I totally agree with the reason players are not petitionning, I disagree with the conclusion that you'd better pk or train them.
When I can, I petition. I can't pk or train them anyway. It's really annoying to see them months after in a higher level area when you thought they were banned. But for some, gms are very quick, so I wonder what they need to speed up the process. Clues? Specific proofs?
I ignore it because after reporting bots continuously for the first year that I played L2, and after playing L2 for 3 years I simply stopped caring. Yeah it's bad, but unless a bot is in my way I really don't even notice it anymore.
If I am on my destroyer subclass I train bot trains like crazy because I need the rooms. I do this by pulling tons of mobs, staying there and letting them beat threw my HP, hit guts, stand there longer, and tada, the train has 20-30 mobs on them. Don't care how efficient it is, they will die. If they seem to be having troubles dieing I constantly stun their healer(s). If the log out, oh well I pull the mobs like normal and if they come back I continue to do it, REALLY annoying but better than not getting the rooms I need. Sometimes the leader will come back and try to train me, and it's great because the worst part of poleing on a destroyer is actually gathering the mobs.
Mainly 1 or 2, depending on whether I can be bothered to waste 5 minutes deciphering their names only to see them still there and still obviously abusing the EULA two/three months later.
I used to train them but now I just can't be bothered because they don't drop stuff. When I did I'd use a FD toon or make sure that I waited until the offending toons had a few mobs on them so I knew that they'd still be hitting when I returned with the train.
If using an FD toon then you can't do much better than making sure that you have some Lilim Knights in that train. AOE stun and a party goes down very quickly. ;)
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
What do you use all of your petitions on lol. I probably petition once a month at most (non-3rdparty reasons).
While looking for a set of rooms to pole in, it can happen that I petition more trains than I have petitions for the day. I also use them to get people moved off the freaking stairs/passageway/ontopofeachother, which always yields a pleasantly fast GM response.
While that's a bit off topic, I really do wish everyone would report people blocking passageways - they get moved to the outskirts of the selling crowd, where nobody will see or check their shops, and if it happened frequently enough, maybe people would stop sitting down on the freaking stairs. ^^
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
That is a horrible fallacy. Yes bots do get banned, but not often enough to matter. Bots should never make it to level 78+ WITH NOBLESSE. NEVER.
There are many reasons why people do not report bots. One reason is that it is NOT OUR JOB to do so. Another big one is that the active player base is too discouraged to do so. A live player reporting a bot has no incentive to report. What good does it do you to sit down, type down a list of names, and then get an auto response from a gm? The problem is not solved! The player has no idea if the situation will get better!
Paging a bot group is almost as unproductive as posting on these forums. So original poster, kill them. Train them. Pk them. By the time the bots do get banned, you will have already moved on to other hunting grounds.
Maybe if more ppl reported them and made an effort more would get banned? I agree they never should get to lvl 70+
No its not our job, but lets face it why do they bot? To sell accounts/adena to who? Oh yeah to US other players, so we can either moan and groan bot this bot that, or actually help reduce the problem? There will allways be bots FACT, but the number of them can be down to players as much as NC Soft. I hate bots as much as the nxt person, but id rather report ever single 1 i see and get them banned cause it does annoy them. A Clan member told me about a friend that botted and got banned and lost over 500m worth of gear. Altho im not saying ever bot has that kinda adena, it all adds up.
As for killing them, i wouldnt bother pking um waste of karma. Train them were u can, if they return train them again. Ive killed over 500 bots and im yet to see a protecter come save them, hope they do cause they get free SOE to town :)
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
Most times bots annoy me when I want to grind in Necro/Cata's with Clanmates/friends etc.
Sometimes there are ALL rooms blocked by bots with mobs in your LvL range in Necro & Cata! Or bots avoid stunmob rooms and block really all rooms without stun 24/7/365.... oO
Best way: TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.
My PW is buffed in DoomLA fast enough to pull one/a lot rooms full of mobs without really loosing any HP. Runspeed FTW!
Fakedeath in the target room does the rest, and the execution show begins :)
If they return, I train again.
Some bot trains are really really overpowered... 2-3 rooms are no problem for them, cuz they use SS when they get trained.... oO -> Solution: there are always rooms with mobs, that bots avoid cuz of STUN :cool:
only pull stun mobs and enjoy the massacre.
If u have luck, u can grind in the "fresh cleaned" room.
If u don't have luck, big papa bot-owner will come and PK u/train u. It is really fascinating sometimes to see, how much toons (higher and higher and higher) the bot-owner will log to, just to get you out of the room again....
Try to get some LvL 76+ friends on ur server, who can/will help u to kill bot-protectors :D
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
Used to report it a lot but gave up on it, week after week the same chars is still in the same area, not ot mention half hte time you get an response back like ' we need more info ' LOL how about actually accept the freaking petition and [CENSORED] ASK WHAT MORE YOU WANT.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
That is a horrible fallacy. Yes bots do get banned, but not often enough to matter. Bots should never make it to level 78+ WITH NOBLESSE. NEVER.
There are many reasons why people do not report bots. One reason is that it is NOT OUR JOB to do so. Another big one is that the active player base is too discouraged to do so. A live player reporting a bot has no incentive to report. What good does it do you to sit down, type down a list of names, and then get an auto response from a gm? The problem is not solved! The player has no idea if the situation will get better!
Paging a bot group is almost as unproductive as posting on these forums. So original poster, kill them. Train them. Pk them. By the time the bots do get banned, you will have already moved on to other hunting grounds.
Maybe if more ppl reported them and made an effort more would get banned? I agree they never should get to lvl 70+
No its not our job, but lets face it why do they bot? To sell accounts/adena to who? Oh yeah to US other players, so we can either moan and groan bot this bot that, or actually help reduce the problem? There will allways be bots FACT, but the number of them can be down to players as much as NC Soft. I hate bots as much as the nxt person, but id rather report ever single 1 i see and get them banned cause it does annoy them. A Clan member told me about a friend that botted and got banned and lost over 500m worth of gear. Altho im not saying ever bot has that kinda adena, it all adds up.
As for killing them, i wouldnt bother pking um waste of karma. Train them were u can, if they return train them again. Ive killed over 500 bots and im yet to see a protecter come save them, hope they do cause they get free SOE to town :)
Well Kain isn't the most popular server TBH, come to Bartz and kill a bot group in VoS/Apostate/etc. and you won't live long. Farmer Clan X will gather so fast you'd assume Ant Queen just farmed in that area, but they will be there for you. They run in packs of 9-18+, just in case you bring friends (one group stays at zonein to PK anyone with you clan/alliance tag that ports in). I actually like sitting at the zonein watching the action because these clans/alliances have somewhat impeccable organization. It's fun as hell, Lmao. They'll even log their toons into your area with their 3rd party program and have a couple nukers sitting there daring you to flag on them (always have EE with them for PR and Prophecy of Water/Trance). One time I tried to kill one of their toons and the EE had +11 Trance and the SH 2-shot me (1.7k, 4.5k crit). They then offered me a non-blessed Scroll Rez and told me "ur so lovely".
Also, me and a friend reported another player botting in VoS and even deleveled him from A Grad eot D Grade because he had his gladiator set to auto-accept rez. We spent about 4 Mil deleveling him. Guess what? His SPS (also reported) is still there afk-leveling.
There is a new archer in + PP duo in VoS. Sometimes he's there with his PP afk buffing/healing/pickup loot and sometimes he's totally afk, but leveling. If he's there he'll ask you why you're hunting in his [two] fields and if he isn't he just kills mobs, but the PP is set to pickup everything on the ground so she'll run to every mob you kill and spam pickup. Friend of mine even flagged on him once earlier and he just carried on killing mobs without replying, as usual. I'm 110% certain the PP is a botted up/sold account, and these toons just turned up in VoS within the past 3 days in Majestic Light/BW Robes - cause I've been leveling there since level 48 and pretty much know everyone else who levels there.
The reason why I cease to report them is because farmers/botters are just as smart as we are. Farmer clans will have someone playing the lead of a bot group, and real players will just level half the day with their buffers on afk duty and bot the other half of the day while they surf the web. NCSoft seems so lenient about it that it doesn't take much for them to give the accused the benefit of the doubt than whip out the ban hammer.
Oh, and time training bots could be time leveling if NCSoft had the initiative to log onto the servers and do what they are paid to do. ONE DAY of active GM'ing by NCSoft per week would be a HUGE BOON to the quality of play most people get playing this game.
If u dont report bots, ure accepting them being around. Bots do get banned FACT. The only ppl who dont want to report them are the ones that either run there own bots or buy adena for r/l cash.
Also for future refernece use this post for advice/disccussion cause this post will be locked for sure.
I realize there are numerous threads on this subject, but couldn't find a simple answer using search that would bring me up to date to current thinking, so thought I'd just ask. Please try not to flame ;p
Situation: You see player(s) that are obviously using a third party program, have tried sending them tells, and have observed it for days on end, no matter when you log in.
Do you?
1) Ignore it. If so, why.
2) Report it. If so, how exactly is the most effective way.
3) Kill them by training mobs. If so, what is the most effective character(s) class to do this?
4) Kill them with a dedicated Red character. If so, what class and level would you suggest?
Thank you.
-Bambam
1) Nope, I deffently don't ignore them.
2) Report them via the ingame system and by sending an e-mail to support. Some bots do take longer for them to ban for one reasion or another.
3) Killing them by trainning is the only way to go, going red on them is just a waste of a good PK imo. Dwarf with fake death is the best to train them with, but my Tyrant or WC'er and do a good job at trainning them also.
PS: Just as a side note, if I find someone in the clan or alliance that I am in, doing that bad thing. I do not feel sorry for them at all when I drop trains of mobs on top of them over and over.
but the PP is set to pickup everything on the ground so she'll run to every mob you kill and spam pickup.
Oh I love these, I keep a dwarf totally full of waking scrolls and lvl 0 crys just to fill up there inventory. Try that and see if they still hunting, if so sweep through there ever 15 mins or so to pick up the stuff they can't cause of there full inventory. ;)
For training them use a dwarf :) My WS can give any # of mobs to any # of botters, and they always go down, and when that bot protector shows up, theres not much he can do to me, CP pots FTW! I've chased off so many TH's in drac it's not even funny, they just stop attacking and run off cause i got over 10k hp ^^
I ignore them mostly if they're not in the area I want to level in. If they are I hit them or train them 'till they leave. If its someone I am in a two-way war with I kill them and try and rezz them. You'd be surprised how many people set up that way. :)
Thank you all for the responses. It's been helpful and very sobering.
It seems we have a another PvP opportunity which some take advantage of on an Ad Hoc basis, but may deserve more focus.
Imagine an alliance of clans who work to make it impossible for the bots to function. It is not as structured as Sieges, not as easily adopted as Clan vs Clan, but could be highly effective.
One problem, is many of our own NA players actually have adopted cheats, and accept the purchase of virtual items as fine, so this alliance against cheaters could be like a civil war, in not just placing legit players vs farmers, but legit players vs their own friends.
It just seems to me that we rely too much upon the game developer, or in many cases, have just given up, when in fact, we the players have far more power over this than we have accepted.
To those that accept the farmers/botters as needed for the economy, I say BS. The economy is insanely inflated because of them and would be far better in the absence of cheaters. If I'm wrong, a server could always stop its campaign and they will be back again, so don't fret; but I'm not wrong.
When this game transitioned from beta to retail, it was very difficult for legit players. The farmers/botters were far more powerful than us in levels and gear. That is no longer the case. If a server ever decided to unite against this, it could shut down the farmers in a heart beat.
In summary, I would just like to say that when L2 began, we were victims of the cheaters, and could do little about it. Many, many, players left over this reason alone. The players are now in a vastly different position. We can either support them, which we seem to do by buying their wares, or we can exterminate them, which is totally within our power and mechanics of the game to do. Just my two cents.
Imagine an alliance of clans who work to make it impossible for the bots to function. It is not as structured as Sieges, not as easily adopted as Clan vs Clan, but could be highly effective.
Tried that a few times on bartz. It doesn't work. They fight back(some are better at this than others), or simply log off until you have to go to sleep. If you get a crew together to go 'cleanse' areas, they simply go back to farming when you move on to another area to clean. You can't leave people behind to watch them because they end up getting ganked. If you leave large groups behind to watch them then you spread yourself too thinly and end up being able to only cover certain areas. Either way, the bots are still farming somewhere and you are left with a bunch of legitimate players not exping or gaining adena but with a lot of pk counts.
The bot problem is beyond being solved by the player base. NCSOFT is responsible for it getting out of hand, they are the only ones that can fix it.
Imagine an alliance of clans who work to make it impossible for the bots to function. It is not as structured as Sieges, not as easily adopted as Clan vs Clan, but could be highly effective.
Tried that a few times on bartz. It doesn't work. They fight back(some are better at this than others), or simply log off until you have to go to sleep. If you get a crew together to go 'cleanse' areas, they simply go back to farming when you move on to another area to clean. You can't leave people behind to watch them because they end up getting ganked. If you leave large groups behind to watch them then you spread yourself too thinly and end up being able to only cover certain areas. Either way, the bots are still farming somewhere and you are left with a bunch of legitimate players not exping or gaining adena but with a lot of pk counts.
The bot problem is beyond being solved by the player base. NCSOFT is responsible for it getting out of hand, they are the only ones that can fix it.
QFT.
And today on TOI 7th Floor there were 2 full bot groups form one clan keeping the room clean. I even seen an SE bot that I reported when I was leveling in Ivory Tower Crater at least 10 times there.
Reporting Bots = Useless.
NCSoft says they investigate, but I don't believe them.
It'e been at least 4 months since I've reported that bot.
Kinda disheartening, but there is absolutely nothing you can do about it but deal with it. I honestly can't encourage anyone to waste their time reporting bots in this game in good conscience. I used to be really **** about them and report them when I seen them, but not one bot that I've reported has been banned, whatsoever.
Good Luck.
War a farmer clan if you like:
- Fighting SGrade Toons with Boss Jewels/Top Gear/OE Sets/etc.
- Fighting Noblesse Toons with high OE skills (+9 Silence, +11 Trance, +10 Stunshot are some that I've been hit with)
- Losing more XP than they lose when you have to LEGITimately grind it back
- Wasting hundreds of million of Adena on BRezzes (probably buying them from their toons) cause they seem to NEVER sleep
- Being ganked everywhere and anywhere you go (they will be there)
You have to be a really strong alliance if you want to fight a farmer clan, cause they are very possessive about their leveling areas and exceptionally geared and leveled.
They will become even stronger in CT1 because it will allow them to max their skill enchants and bot the XP back without troubles. They don't mind letting you flag first (or go red, noblesse ports let them get to you faster than the "average" player).
And with that situation UR said they had nothing left to do in game? :P Hehe.
It might be worth speaking to some old-timers on Devianne who were around for the war with Dragon. They did manage to get rid of them somehow - some combination of war and mass petitioning I believe, but it'll be easier to ask about it on Blah.
I petition bots if I can, but often the problem is, I can't report enough of them. For instance, ToI. On some floors of ToI, every room has a bot group, that's 9 toons per room to petition. I can't fit them all in 1 petition and I can't send in another petition until the GM's see the first one. And, of course, I'm too lazy to use the website while playing the game.
But its hard to have faith in the system when there are so many botted up noblesse's. One group that plays on Franz bots up toons to noblesse in about a month regularly. Its depressing, so while I want to petition bots, I'm often not motivated enough to do so.
Imagine an alliance of clans who work to make it impossible for the bots to function. It is not as structured as Sieges, not as easily adopted as Clan vs Clan, but could be highly effective.
Players fighting bots en masse doesnt work because , players also have to fight other players... and you can be sure your real enemies will turn up to get in the way.
A dedicated vs-Bot alliance , would have to forgoe all real wars in order to function successfully, and very few players would be interested in giving up the main aspect of L2, just to provide bot-free exp spots for the other players.
Report the name of just someone in the party, any single bot will do, and add "and his/her party members" to your petition.
This has worked for me in the past with a turn-around of 48 hours or so. One thing about bots is they don't change locations very quickly, especially when they're still in the NG stage farming the Elven Forest... ****ed dwarves and their bronze automatons...
Fighting bots, at this point, may not work overall, but a dedicated group could keep a single area clear of them, at least until another company moves in to farm it.
Thing is, bots aren't like an enemy clan or ally. There's not some single, over-arching "Adena, Inc" (as we called it in the past) that controls every bot. These are mostly run by small, private concerns. One guy here, a net-cafe owner there... a college student, a junior programmer, some bored high school teenybopper... so killing off one bot-party, or even a dozen, a hundred, isn't really applying a permanent solution to the problem.
For awhile I had stopped reporting bots but one day I noticed those I reported were gone.
Just send petition but don't be obnoxious about it. Be informative especially good names. If names are hard then manually type /target hardname till your target lights up. Add that name to the petition. The unregistered version of fraps has a limited time of 30 seconds but keep frapsing till you get a good one especially when they're killing, buffing, dancing, all at once. That's usually good enough.
Send a ticket and attach your movie. I usually don't bother with this tactic unless some bot crew tries to move in on my spot.
I also will typically just include the names of 1 or 2 players in a group of bots, if I am petitioning a GM. For some odd reason, I've also had to start spelling out a name or 2 when I report through the support website and attach screenshots. But, it seems to work.
It all depends on how much time I have. If I only have 10 - 20 minutes to XP, I ignore. But if I have more time than that, I report.
If the bots are still there the next day, I become more directly involved in eliminating them, either by 3 or 4, or some other creative method. I've heard stories of farmers logging higher level toons to deal with "nuisances" such as myself, but that hasn't happened to me yet.
I have found another way to fight the adena farmers, well the sellers anyway. But it's not really fighting them, more like making it hard for them to sell there stuff.
From what I understand, most adean sellers get contacted via an e-mail address. After you figure out what there contact e-mail is you share it with about 20 or 30 friends. There is a load of web sites out there that have lil areas "Tell a Friend" (input e-mail address), or where you can put in an e-mail address to get more info on what ever that site is selling. So you and your friends go around putting that adena seller address in those sites. That site sells there contacts to other sites and in days that adena seller is getting so many junk e-mails per day that they have to change there address and advertise all over again.
Since these guys are in other countries, they can't be touched by the law. So I say fight fire with fire....if they want to spam PM's over the servers, we sure as hell can spam there e-mails. ;)
While I would love to spam those adena sellers with garbage mails I know that I will the one getting sued/banned whatever in the end as you like me most likely live in a country where spamming might be considered a criminal offense.
Ahh...good point....but remember, they want to be your friend :). So all your doing is being friendly and sharing some good sites with them. Also I really dought that someone from China will call the cops and tell them that there in China getting spam mail from xxx and make the cops find out how that web site got there e-mail address. :p
And your not really spamming, just adding there name to say 5 sites. As are 20 or 30 other ppl, after about a weeks time that info has been sold to so many other sites there not able to go through all there e-mails just to find that one person that wants to buy from them.
Well....there's also another REALLY funny way of messing with bots....(that's what I do when I'm bored)
Make a healer....when u see a bot,start healling the mob it's attacking....u go purple,but it's only for a small ammount of time....and u make the bot use as many hp pots as it can to stay alive
It's fun as hell for me when I go out on my SE alt and buff/heal the mobs bots are attacking....and so far,no protector came to attack me,coz they simply don't even know I'm there :)
What I'd really be curious about is ... making the bots rest with method of choice (probably training or hitting and giving them time to heal) ... and then when they're down on the floor and don't have a target, using attract cubic to get them to flag. ^^: Should be funny enough.