NCSoft's answer to the "Bot" problem?

I had planed on sending this letter to NCSoft and then posting a copy of it on the message boards but for the life in me I can not find any link on the official site on to whom it should be sent to. If anyone has a link on support or an e-mail for someone in the company in a position to receive it please post it here.
I would also like your feedback to this and any suggestions and please please keep the thread relevant to the issue at hand. If I do get a link on whom to send it to I will be posting NCSofts answer if any on this thread.

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To the staff of NCSoft

Dear Friends,
I would like to present you with an ongoing problem on Lineage 2, a problem which I am sure you are well aware of.
I have been a subscriber of “L2” since open beta and even a subscriber of “Lineage” for 3 years prior to that. I am a holder of three accounts, one for my son, one for my main character and one for a couple of buffers which seems to be necessary in the game when I can not find a party. I guess I am to be commended for in all that time I have never used a 3rd party program and I have tried very hard not to “e-bay” for adena, which would explain the fact of why my main character has taken so long to reach lvl 76 and finally finish the quest of SoulTaker.
Having grinded my way up in Hot Springs, and having earned a lot of recipes for S grade jewelry by doing the quest there, I decided to make the Tat. Jewelry set for my main. Alas though since 4/5 attempts on crafting were unsuccessful I found myself depleted of material and adena and had to pull out my 63 Bounty Hunter to gather bone and other material I would need in order to finish the set. It seems I would also need a lot of Anchent Adena in order to unseal this set once I was successful in creating it therefore the most logical hunting ground would be the dungeons of Witch or Devotion.

Which brings me to my dilemma.
Having spent hours in those dungeons looking for an empty room I’ve come to realize that they’re full of “Bots”. I had been driven away and pk’ed from every spot in the catacombs and necropolis’ until eventually I found a room, a remote spot, where a group of “Bots” had been laying on the floor dead. There I hunted for two hours until as it seems the operator either woke up or it was time for the next shift and one by one the bots started reloging and buffing. After a meaningless monolog I was told “rang rang” a couple of times and since I would not give up the room I was pk’ed ones again. That’s when I took out my SoulTaker and having my summons kill all mobs and even using corps drain I depleted them of both drops and spoils. It took a good part of two hours to drive them out of the room and left me with less spirit shots, cursed bones, beast sole shots, and c crystals. Not to mention 2 hours of stress and “Not a fun environment” wasted for nothing. The funny part of all this is that before the operator logged off his bots I was pm’ed by a macro giving me information on where I could buy adena cheap. I have enclosed the snapshot I took of that “funny part”.

This is only one of many short stories I could tell you through out my long history on L2 and in fact, at some point, I switched servers from Erica to Teon because of the “Bots” problem. Having petitioned a number of times has brought no results in resolving this problem and in fact one time I was even asked by a G.M. “how do you know that they are bots?” as if to imply that it takes one to know one. These little “adena selling firms” have become so organized now that they even declare war on clans and take over the high lvl areas in the game. The result of that is that they can have their bots hunt unbothered in those areas and if a player comes by wanting to experience in that spot they would just log in their high lvl characters and take you down as part of the in game war. How is that for a “fun environment”?
NCSoft has taken a strong stand on anyone using 3rd party program, it‘s a violation of the service agreement and punishable by banning the account. I read this on the footnotes often as I log into the game. Yet nothing changes. If anything the “Bot” problem is getting worse. Legitimate players are forced to hunt for experience in order to level in areas that are “not appealing” to these “adena selling firms” with low level drops. A player reaches a point in the game that he or she is forced to buy adena for real money in order to keep some kind of balanced ration between his/her level and equipment. It seems to me that your “Stand” on 3rd party programs “Stands” for legitimate players only and one could theorize a number of things regarding the relationship between NCSoft and these “adena selling firms” do to the lack of action taken towards them.
I love the game and would hate to be driven out of it by forces other then my own free will but I do so fear that soon a time will come that the “fun” will be outweighed by the stress of all these highly valued NCSoft clients who hold 50-100 accounts each or even their clients who, being in the game for 2-3 months, are lvl 77 with a +10 Daconian bow defending their “Bots”.

My question to you is.. What if anything are you doing to address this situation?

Support -> Support Center ?

lol, have you tried getting in touch with them that way? seems to be an enless loop

age old question, given an age old answer.

+1

Nc's answer to the bot problem is this: Do not talk about tos violations on these boards! Do not talk about tos violations in game! If we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the suspected players are using a third party program, they will be dealt with accordingly! We have always been at war with Eastasia!

I had planed on sending this letter to NCSoft and then posting a copy of it on the message boards but for the life in me I can not find any link on the official site on to whom it should be sent to. If anyone has a link on support or an e-mail for someone in the company in a position to receive it please post it here.

NCsoft (http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/nccontact/company.asp) ;)

TY Paulino. The letter is off now , lets see what they come back with. Ill be posting any replies here but... dont expect much :eek:

Excellent letter.

Like you, I too hold three accounts, will not use third party programs, or purchase Adena. My highest levels are only 56. Should I reach the same wall you have, I would have no choice but to terminate my subscriptions. Being forced to purchase Adena to continue playing a "game", is utterly rediculous.

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

-Bam

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

what game are YOU playing? Seriously.

i can tell you why we don't. Not worth the waste of time anymore.

You have to own the areas they hunt for more than a day. The karma system here hurts too since without the sineater, you have a good chance to drop.

With the bots no longer dropping anything, training doesn't happen much and you killing the group only leads to them coming back.

It would take at least a month of total dedication to cause even a dent in this from the players side and even then, you can't keep this up.

When you geta response (cough) not gonna happen (cough)!!

Be sure to create a new thread. This one will not be avaiable.

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

what game are YOU playing? Seriously.



If the original poster was in your clan/alliance, would you say "sorry, nothing we can do to help. What game are you playing, seriously"? Would that be your response?

-Bam

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

what game are YOU playing? Seriously.



If the original poster was in your clan/alliance, would you say "sorry, nothing we can do to help. What game are you playing, seriously"? Would that be your response?

-Bam



yes....

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

what game are YOU playing? Seriously.



If the original poster was in your clan/alliance, would you say "sorry, nothing we can do to help. What game are you playing, seriously"? Would that be your response?

-Bam



I was not responding to that to the op, I was responding with it to you. I can not speak for the other servers, but no alliance of legit players could even dream of doing what you have described. Putting personal problems aside, sure we could do that, but 'cleansing' areas of bots? HELLO? How long have you been playing? What server? We have tried that on bartz multiple times during many different chronicles. Some tries were more genuine than others of course, but the fact remains that human beings can not compete against 24/7 automations, not unless they have the help of some out side force working with them (IE GM'S, NCSOFT SUPPORT).

The last grand crusade from the bartz server to get rid of bots was the /signed petition... and it was crushed not by the bots but by ncsoft itself. I've noticed over and over, especially in event threads, that the general forum population seem to have it in their head that they are the only ones that think they have the energy to post and therefore they must surely represent the majority of the player base that cares. That is so far from the truth. A huge amount of posters were banned, some on multiple accounts, during the /signed movement.

We have gone over this many times, in many many threads. The bot problem is well beyond being something we, the player base, can do. Not even alliance of level 80 players decked out in boss jewels could 'cleanse' or 'fix' the current bot situation.

The best the player base can do is occasionally kill or train to death a group in an area they wish to hunt in. You are trying to use real life logic here. Set aside our differences and fight the greater evil implies that the good guys can actually KILL the bad guys. Sure we can kill their characters but that doesn't do anything in the grand scheme of things.

If we could permanently kill off a farmer/botter/whatever, then the problem would be so easy to solve. But since they can keep coming back over and over with very very little loss to themselves (and of course huge risks of exp and gear and time to the -real- players trying to stop them).

We need your help ncsoft, and we need it now. Stop wasting your time banning people from the forums, and start banning botters en mass from the game!

So is the entire issue with bots is that they take up space in the Catas and Necros??

and any other place that has:

Drops that sell well
Semi rare stuff
and lots and lots of spawns that are in a safe area.

yes.

and any other place that has:

Drops that sell well
Semi rare stuff
and lots and lots of spawns that are in a safe area.

yes.

So what would you do if every room was full of players that weren't botting?

I left L2 years ago when I decided that I was simply unwilling to swipe the Visa anymore to try to keep up(different account, years ago). I hated farmers. I hated myself for giving them a dime. I hated NCSoft for coddling them. I hated this game because it was so fun, but I simply couldn't get around the fact that the natural evolution of events would lead me to a place I did not want to go: giving in and ponying up for adena to "keep up with the Jones'".

I left. I played WoW for almost two years and I am back to play with a friend of mine. How is this time different? I no longer care about advancement. I play for fun and let those who care about end-game, worry about the end-game.

The long and the short of it is this: if NCSoft ever wanted L2 to have a chance against other MMO offerings they needed to create and maintain an environment where the average gaming felt like they could suceed. No, not dominate. The hardcore players will always dominate, but the average Joe and Jane should be able to get ahead without feeling like they need to clean up NCSoft's messes.

NCSoft has countered for years by saying that they ban tons of accounts, etc. but the simple fact is that whatever they have done, it was never enough. Bot trains are pretty much rampant in any area that is worth exp'ing/farming in and no played out response from NCSoft NA has ever changed that. They either can't squash them fast enough or won't. Either way the result is the same as it was two years ago...the legit player has a harder climb and the bot trains just keep trucking.

It's been like this forever. Accept it or move on because NCSoft played their hand years ago, were found to be impotent, and absolutely nothing has changed.

I still do not understand why each server doesn't put their clan and alliance differences aside to periodically clear areas out. It is a pvp game, and these bots actually provide a great opportunity to do just that.

what game are YOU playing? Seriously.



If the original poster was in your clan/alliance, would you say "sorry, nothing we can do to help. What game are you playing, seriously"? Would that be your response?

-Bam



I was not responding to that to the op, I was responding with it to you. I can not speak for the other servers, but no alliance of legit players could even dream of doing what you have described. Putting personal problems aside, sure we could do that, but 'cleansing' areas of bots? HELLO? How long have you been playing? What server? We have tried that on bartz multiple times during many different chronicles. Some tries were more genuine than others of course, but the fact remains that human beings can not compete against 24/7 automations, not unless they have the help of some out side force working with them (IE GM'S, NCSOFT SUPPORT).

The last grand crusade from the bartz server to get rid of bots was the /signed petition... and it was crushed not by the bots but by ncsoft itself. I've noticed over and over, especially in event threads, that the general forum population seem to have it in their head that they are the only ones that think they have the energy to post and therefore they must surely represent the majority of the player base that cares. That is so far from the truth. A huge amount of posters were banned, some on multiple accounts, during the /signed movement.

We have gone over this many times, in many many threads. The bot problem is well beyond being something we, the player base, can do. Not even alliance of level 80 players decked out in boss jewels could 'cleanse' or 'fix' the current bot situation.

The best the player base can do is occasionally kill or train to death a group in an area they wish to hunt in. You are trying to use real life logic here. Set aside our differences and fight the greater evil implies that the good guys can actually KILL the bad guys. Sure we can kill their characters but that doesn't do anything in the grand scheme of things.

If we could permanently kill off a farmer/botter/whatever, then the problem would be so easy to solve. But since they can keep coming back over and over with very very little loss to themselves (and of course huge risks of exp and gear and time to the -real- players trying to stop them).

We need your help ncsoft, and we need it now. Stop wasting your time banning people from the forums, and start banning botters en mass from the game!



First of all, I am not fighting with you. I understand what you are saying, and understand you were responding to me.

With all you said understood, I want to ask you the same question. If a member of your clan, or alliance, needed, or wanted, to hunt in an area bots were preventing him/her from doing so, what would your response to them be?

I am not trying to be manipulative, or pretend to suggest the players can ultimately solve this problem, but I do believe the players can do more.

Perhaps have rotating weeks with a change of hunting area each week that forces the bots to leave so legit players can level.

I'm not an idiot, and agree the issue can only effectively be dealt with by NCsoft, but I refuse to believe "we" can't do more. If I get banned for pvping in a pvp game, then something is seriously wrong ;p

Thanks -Bam