Slow/Winter/poison(worthless)/Bleed(worthless) are the only real useful AOE's in that situation... mirage could be funny if you want mobs to aggro healers and everyone die.
Solo as I say to every OL I speak to... Focus dagger, +4 Str and hunt where mana pots drop with constant soulcry on, light armor or robes and OOP SE/PP (BD and SWS also nice. :P
In most of the case in melee aoe you have to seal the mobs, some time you can play as assist healer.
I often aoe on magic mobs with an OL, she use mass silence and them I can aoe them.
In fact your job depend where you AOE.
If your mate don't need heal when they AOE no need to use "Seal of winter" but you can make some grind control with Dreaming Spirit if some mobs are stack in the pull.
If your party need heal, then you can use Seal of Winter (and may be Seal of Chaos) to decrease their damage. In bad pull you can support the healer.
Later you will use Seal of Flame to help killing mobs. And use seal of silence if mobs silence/poison or are NPC Death Bomb.
Don't forget you have a nice toggle Soul Guard wich is very usefull if you stole agro on your tank while sealing.
I was thinking the same thing. The mass root is only used to get the party out of the problem. The polers want and need to control the flow of the mops.
Mass silence is a nice one, but ususally isn't needed.
Sleep is the bomb for sure. Keeps the group safe.
Heart is good, but way too much mana over the course of a buff round.
A pole is nice in AOE but only if you don't become the main target. At least with a pole you are doing some good damage.
As far as AOE parties, pickup parties are not going to happen. OL are just a drain on the party unless you are friends, clan member or alliance members.
As far as solo, focus dagger is the best along with "don't" screw with your strength. Drain, smackie, repeat. You can do ok like this but it is like chopping large trees at times.
I was thinking the same thing. The mass root is only used to get the party out of the problem. The polers want and need to control the flow of the mops.
Mass silence is a nice one, but ususally isn't needed.
Sleep is the bomb for sure. Keeps the group safe.
Heart is good, but way too much mana over the course of a buff round.
A pole is nice in AOE but only if you don't become the main target. At least with a pole you are doing some good damage.
As far as AOE parties, pickup parties are not going to happen. OL are just a drain on the party unless you are friends, clan member or alliance members.
As far as solo, focus dagger is the best along with "don't" screw with your strength. Drain, smackie, repeat. You can do ok like this but it is like chopping large trees at times.
you obviously never did the AOE sleep/aoe root nuker partys.
Works perfect just get them in a close area, aoe sleep with 3 nukers(even if its slow), and have a overlord aoe root, then just spam that aoe nukes
Yes, OL is 'decent' in an AoE melee party with seal of winter, but adding another pole or healer usually means more safety.
For AoE with mages, AoE root is sweet, since the good AoE mages need to stand pretty much right on top of their targets to hit them - and you don't want them getting hit while they do that. Only way to do that is AoE root. ^^
As far as AOE parties, pickup parties are not going to happen. OL are just a drain on the party unless you are friends, clan member or alliance members.
An OL is very usefull in AOE and in some place you can pull twice or more the numbers of mobs if you have an OL.
For exemple in FoG, I don't need any OL even if I pull 2 or 3 rooms (stakato mobs) but without OL and mass silence it become really dangerous because most of the mobs are NPC Death bombs.
An other spot where OL is a must have is Darkness Room. I m pulling all the 36 mobs of the last room. But half of them do AOE drain and believe me if you don't have an OL for mass silence, you can do it.
Sounds like large parties too.
Seems most of the stuff happening around me is "perfect parties". At most 3 to 4 people and ususally the beat down is so quick, by the time the OL fires, its over.
Perhaps too, my judgement is clouded by the size and makeup of my clan. As such, TOI floors, cats, etc., OL is just for fun there.
And I have done the AOE parites, not with mass sleep, but with the polers, etc. I get yelled at for mass root becasue they wouldn't get the proper stack on the poler. As such, I will look out for such events and try to get into one that has an OL to learn from.
If you think the seals are actually helpful, you're wrong. You cant be the main CC because your land rate is so low, so you must always have support CC (thats why it works in mos, you have a sleep cloud backup) you cant attack with a pole because your accuracy cant get much lower. You cant afford a pole anyway, because you have to always solo and dont make any money.
There are only two places I know of that you are actually useful to the party at.
Darkness room: You silence. Thats it. Very helpful though.
Nuker AoE in mos: you buff and root.
In a pole party you can use winter or chaos.
All other seals are 100% useless in pve, to the point where they shouldnt even be on your (pve) bar. Overlords suck at leveling, you have to be leeched to level fast, you're not useful to most any party.
The seals have a LOW land rate, pull a LOT of aggro, have very little effect (same as single target vers, when was the last time you saw a pp spaming wind shackle and it actually helping? or a sps using curse chaos?) and cost WAY too much mp. The only way to legitly level an ol fast is to have a lot of support from friends/clan.
And maybe some summoners use it, but you cant tell me its actually helpful. :p And if you do, cut the land rate in half and then make it cost 10x the mp and tell me how helpful it is. :(
just winter and the odd heal (if you can spare the buff slot)
if your party considers you a leech i suggest pulling 20-30% more mobs then they can usually handle and show them how effectively seal of winter lowers mob dps
also ol is a much better puller than the average dorf is
even wearing robes you can have more pdef and ranged skills and drains really help for pulls
If you think the seals are actually helpful, you're wrong. You cant be the main CC because your land rate is so low, so you must always have support CC (thats why it works in mos, you have a sleep cloud backup) you cant attack with a pole because your accuracy cant get much lower. You cant afford a pole anyway, because you have to always solo and dont make any money.
There are only two places I know of that you are actually useful to the party at.
Darkness room: You silence. Thats it. Very helpful though.
Nuker AoE in mos: you buff and root.
In a pole party you can use winter or chaos.
All other seals are 100% useless in pve, to the point where they shouldnt even be on your (pve) bar. Overlords suck at leveling, you have to be leeched to level fast, you're not useful to most any party.
The seals have a LOW land rate, pull a LOT of aggro, have very little effect (same as single target vers, when was the last time you saw a pp spaming wind shackle and it actually helping? or a sps using curse chaos?) and cost WAY too much mp. The only way to legitly level an ol fast is to have a lot of support from friends/clan.
Seal have bad land rate on mobs ? Oo
You are joking right ?
I helped my wife starting an OL when I was 70+ and when she was around 10 level lower than the mobs she allready landed her seal quite often.
With cov & empower, her seal have a very good land rate on yellow/pink mobs, so how can you say OL have bad land rate on seal ??
just winter and the odd heal (if you can spare the buff slot)
if your party considers you a leech i suggest pulling 20-30% more mobs then they can usually handle and show them how effectively seal of winter lowers mob dps
also ol is a much better puller than the average dorf is
even wearing robes you can have more pdef and ranged skills and drains really help for pulls
rofl, I think you need to test what your are saying, an OL will never able to pull the train I do on my dwarf that s a fact. 25+ mobs in cata, all the mobs of darkness room ... no way an OL can pull that even with soul guard on.
First they don't have as many HP as a dwarf, and second this will totally mess up the agro and the stack of mobs.
Well I have not noticed a better landing rate yet. I generally solo against two or three mops when I get in a bad place. Hit my sleep, 90% of the time, they slept. Now I hit anything else, one of the three it may land on, two out of the three, maybe one in 5 times, three out of three, 1 out of 10. Now look at the mana I just used. Better to sleep/drain/whack. I can go a full buff round with a bit of mana for bad times and still get some decent level.
Get into deeper places w/ clan, I use winter, but the mops still dead in 1 to 2 minutes and clan woudl rather me use that for heal sleep. So there too, while it may land, the MP costs kill it.
If you think the seals are actually helpful, you're wrong. You cant be the main CC because your land rate is so low, so you must always have support CC (thats why it works in mos, you have a sleep cloud backup) you cant attack with a pole because your accuracy cant get much lower. You cant afford a pole anyway, because you have to always solo and dont make any money.
There are only two places I know of that you are actually useful to the party at.
Darkness room: You silence. Thats it. Very helpful though.
Nuker AoE in mos: you buff and root.
In a pole party you can use winter or chaos.
All other seals are 100% useless in pve, to the point where they shouldnt even be on your (pve) bar. Overlords suck at leveling, you have to be leeched to level fast, you're not useful to most any party.
The seals have a LOW land rate, pull a LOT of aggro, have very little effect (same as single target vers, when was the last time you saw a pp spaming wind shackle and it actually helping? or a sps using curse chaos?) and cost WAY too much mp. The only way to legitly level an ol fast is to have a lot of support from friends/clan.
Seal have bad land rate on mobs ? Oo
You are joking right ?
I helped my wife starting an OL when I was 70+ and when she was around 10 level lower than the mobs she allready landed her seal quite often.
With cov & empower, her seal have a very good land rate on yellow/pink mobs, so how can you say OL have bad land rate on seal ??
If I read this right, you're talking about a level 60 overlord with cov. . . I thought I had a good buffer setup of oop sd,pp,se,ee . . .
The land rate is bad, very bad. Use winter and your screen is filled with failed messages. If I remember right (I should, I was pretty excited) only a few seals had their land rate raised, not all of them, and they were all the useless ones like seal of gloom. =/
Krissa: Ok, but thats the only place. And I assure you, it would take 10-15 tries to land winter on one. :(
Winter/Silence if there are mobs who nuke
Couple of hearts
Root i cwazy in aoe and i wouldn't use it
Sleep can be usefull in some situations
If there are stunnin mobs maybe scourage ?
GL
If I read this right, you're talking about a level 60 overlord with cov. . . I thought I had a good buffer setup of oop sd,pp,se,ee . . .
The land rate is bad, very bad. Use winter and your screen is filled with failed messages. If I remember right (I should, I was pretty excited) only a few seals had their land rate raised, not all of them, and they were all the useless ones like seal of gloom. =/
Krissa: Ok, but thats the only place. And I assure you, it would take 10-15 tries to land winter on one. :(
No at level 60 with zerk/empower, she had good landing rate on mobs 70.
At level 70 with zerk/cov/empower (not allways cov btw) she had a good landing rate on mobs 80+
Off course you can't ask for 100% succes rate but when half the mobs are sealed and you are 10 level lower than the mobs I think it s a good land rate.
Do you think my spoil festival +8 or my spoil +9 have 100% succes rate on mobs from my level ? off course not. Same for my stun wich don't have 100% succes.
I m playing with OL since 1 year on every spot I can find and allways the seal have a good rate on mobs higher level than the OL.
If I read this right, you're talking about a level 60 overlord with cov. . . I thought I had a good buffer setup of oop sd,pp,se,ee . . .
The land rate is bad, very bad. Use winter and your screen is filled with failed messages. If I remember right (I should, I was pretty excited) only a few seals had their land rate raised, not all of them, and they were all the useless ones like seal of gloom. =/
Krissa: Ok, but thats the only place. And I assure you, it would take 10-15 tries to land winter on one. :(
No at level 60 with zerk/empower, she had good landing rate on mobs 70.
At level 70 with zerk/cov/empower (not allways cov btw) she had a good landing rate on mobs 80+
Off course you can't ask for 100% succes rate but when half the mobs are sealed and you are 10 level lower than the mobs I think it s a good land rate.
Do you think my spoil festival +8 or my spoil +9 have 100% succes rate on mobs from my level ? off course not. Same for my stun wich don't have 100% succes.
I m playing with OL since 1 year on every spot I can find and allways the seal have a good rate on mobs higher level than the OL.
Do you have like a +16 weapon or something? What mobs are you fighting that are 80+?
I generally solo against two or three mops when I get in a bad place. Hit my sleep, 90% of the time, they slept. Now I hit anything else, one of the three it may land on, two out of the three, maybe one in 5 times, three out of three, 1 out of 10.
This is as perfect an example as can be put into words. I dont understand how that is high land rate.
A lot of pple love this game because of the sieges. OL will still pawn at sieges.
Siege of course! After more than one year of play, I did 0 siege. But yes I heard Bishops were useful there too.
OL without ally buffs will have to find a big clan to level. It was no sinecure for them already, now it will be rather obnoxious.
and an OL is/will be a clan-wide buffer so yes ... they're a must for pvp in any pvp-clan - and pve-wise well ... good luck getting a group often, but hopefully you've gotten an idea of how well they pve through this thread ;) (or a summary of: good for melee, aoe, and mages when high enough level). Note that if you get in a good enough clan, they'll want you a higher level so may try to ensure you get groups ...
Do you have like a +16 weapon or something? What mobs are you fighting that are 80+?
The OL was 70 at C5 and mobs 80+ were in FoG and Pagans for example.
She was using Spiritual Eye [Acumen] +3 (A)
Now she is 76 with +0 Arcana Mace on 80 mobs.
I generally solo against two or three mops when I get in a bad place. Hit my sleep, 90% of the time, they slept. Now I hit anything else, one of the three it may land on, two out of the three, maybe one in 5 times, three out of three, 1 out of 10.
This is as perfect an example as can be put into words. I dont understand how that is high land rate.
30% land rate unbuffed is good imo.
Try with empower, zerk.
At higher level add PoWater or CoV.
Do you think I cry 'cause unbuffed I hit for 100 and full buffed for 300 ?
OL have very good skill and imo they land quite well with correct buff from their level. Don't forget it's AOE skill so of course they have lower land rate than single target skill.
My character is the same, with the same buffs. I land (at most) 40% on those same mobs. More realistically 20-30%. I think our ideas of "good" just differ. When Im forced to push my "OH [censored]!" button and it has a 30% chance to land. . . chances are im not going to be happy. especially when the single target versions have a 99% land rate with said buffs.
btw, she wasnt talking about unbuffed.
ransul: "a summary of: good for melee, aoe, and mages when high enough level"
90% of the time less effective than others in the same roles*
My character is the same, with the same buffs. I land (at most) 40% on those same mobs. More realistically 20-30%. I think our ideas of "good" just differ. When Im forced to push my "OH [censored]!" button and it has a 30% chance to land. . . chances are im not going to be happy.
Don't consder mass-debuffs as "oh [censored]" buttons. For PvE, they are here only to save healer's MP.
and an OL is/will be a clan-wide buffer so yes ... they're a must for pvp in any pvp-clan - and pve-wise well ... good luck getting a group often, but hopefully you've gotten an idea of how well they pve through this thread ;) (or a summary of: good for melee, aoe, and mages when high enough level). Note that if you get in a good enough clan, they'll want you a higher level so may try to ensure you get groups ...
My character is the same, with the same buffs. I land (at most) 40% on those same mobs. More realistically 20-30%. I think our ideas of "good" just differ. When Im forced to push my "OH [censored]!" button and it has a 30% chance to land. . . chances are im not going to be happy.
Don't consder mass-debuffs as "oh [censored]" buttons. For PvE, they are here only to save healer's MP.
. . . Yeah, because you really NEED an overlord in a party with a healer. Ive already said the ONLY two ways an overlord is useful to a party. Saving healers mp isnt one of them. And no, using seal of winter/chaos does not lower the dps enough to save the healers any meaningful amount of mp, because any mobs worth poling arent going to be effected by the -23% aspd anyway. (23%?!? oh noses! You can even throw in Accuracy -8 [censored]! On your heavy armor wearing pole class that gets no use out of it whatsoever. )