If NCSoft start sell adena/itens on its website all bots/farmers will die and NCSoft will get more money. Is a fact that a lot of players buy adena/itens at ebayers site.
NCSoft do not share your $ with this ********. Open your online store for adena atleast the bots will end.
It wont end botting at all, nor farming, aslong as there's desirable items that are rare and can get from only a select few mobs/RB's there'll always be farmers. A different game i played tried this solution too, you could even buy the rarest piece in game (was something that helped with enchanting items, increased rate of success; Trina's Piece i believe it was called) and was extremely hard to get otherwise. Still people botted, bought and sold gear, epic rings, highly OE'd gear etc over illegal sites.
You guys all need to know, that if ncsoft were to take away all the botters in the game, that sence they have already been here for quite some time the econmy of the game would crash. EX (AA would go from current (2a each) to (10a each) over night) this would happen with a number of iteams such as materials, Soul shots, weapons/armor. basicly everything. I'm sorry to say that we kinda need them at this point.
You need to realize, that if the game never had farmers in the first place, it would have been just fine and self sustaining, as it sould have been. The market would have been alot more active, not to mention a whole lotta actual real dwarfs being played and actively sought after by all clans. All the ebaybies would never have stuck around long enough to ruin the game for others either.
And even if all bots were suddenly removed from the game, the market would eventually regulate itself after some time. The only ones who would be worried about such a thing, would be the ones who cant play the market because the only way they've made it, is by passing thier CC info over to the farmers in the first place.
While i dont think the results will be as drastical or extreme i do think you're right. Last time the bot banning hammer fell upon my server the economy crashed and prices went sky high. But it take a couple of weeks until for example AA had reached 5a a piece, D shots still remained the same since thats only depending on taxes for the d grade gear in shops (dont need to be a top D to crush and sell and still be profitable) but the other shots got a nice hiccup in prices too.
You guys all need to know, that if ncsoft were to take away all the botters in the game, that sence they have already been here for quite some time the econmy of the game would crash. EX (AA would go from current (2a each) to (10a each) over night) this would happen with a number of iteams such as materials, Soul shots, weapons/armor. basicly everything. I'm sorry to say that we kinda need them at this point.
You need to understand that 95% of all adena is generated by bots.If they are rmoved prices would fall alot but since no one would be runing with billions of adena it still would be very hard to purchase rare items.
You can say the exact opposite and explain that with the crash of the economy and with the hypothesis that the player community won't be able to readjust, some ppl might leave the game (usual pro-ebay/farming excuse). Then with a huge turnover, NCNA might have more leverage toward NC Korea to tweak its own servers, thus adapting the L2 drop rate/prices to the NA economy.
In the event NC Korea refuses to give NCNA some space, with an even bigger turnover, server merge would then become more of a necessity. Resulting in fewer but more manageable servers with both more players to play the game with the Korean drop/rate and also with the same amount of GM having to moderate a smaller population..
Well guess what, you'll get less farmers and botters. So yeah.. these discussions gets old prety fast. ;)
hows that?
the "i suck in real life so i need to cheat in a video game so i feel like a man" attitude is what belongs on blah
my response to mental cripple ebayers belongs here
kthx
Dont know about the ebayer attitude, i do know about the arrogance, the incredible rudeness that that most of blahs inhabitants are dressing up in.
None of that suites any of them, it just makes me wonder if 90% of them acctually are between 8-12 years old and are compensating the fact that they are loosers irl or that they just acting so ******ed do get some attention due to the fact that they arent getting any at home.
And telling someone to die just because he/she makes a stupid post isnt normal behavior
It's normal internet behavior, anyone that gets bent about being told to "DIAF" needs to get out more.
Anyway bad idea, then everyone will HAVE to buy adena/items to get anything since it would introduce a glut of adena to the market out of thin air. At least I'm guessing that's what the OP's idea was, as I doubt they are saying to have Ncsoft put out their own bots to pull adena out of the game mechanics "properly".
I've mentioned this before but on the C3 or C4 PTS they gave everyone a ridiculous amount of adena out of nowhere (after a boost) and that just made everything 'cost' a ton, like a single spellbook was going for 5 mill, not even a rare one.
You need to realize, that if the game never had farmers in the first place, it would have been just fine and self sustaining, as it sould have been. The market would have been alot more active, not to mention a whole lotta actual real dwarfs being played and actively sought after by all clans. All the ebaybies would never have stuck around long enough to ruin the game for others either.
And even if all bots were suddenly removed from the game, the market would eventually regulate itself after some time. The only ones who would be worried about such a thing, would be the ones who cant play the market because the only way they've made it, is by passing thier CC info over to the farmers in the first place.
+1 bl
They are currently extremly profitable, sadly they LET IT GET THIS WAY, it was fine back in c2/c3 but even then alot of farmers but many afk bots got banned, not anymore but neway
If they banned all botters/farmers etc now, they would lose too many profits.
And telling someone to die just because he/she makes a stupid post isnt normal behavior
well if it makes you feel any better i'm not a 8-12 year old and i don't post on the [censored] hole of the internet known as blah
telling someone to die might be a harsh statement to make but this suggestion pops up every couple of weeks and while the title might be "Final solution to end Bots/Fammers forever"
i interpret it more as:
"hey guys i love to ebay, but the problem is every time i whip out my credit card i create another army of bots to support me
and while i love getting adena the easy way - because i'm a stupid brain dead tool, the bots that i create are really starting to bug me.
i would prefer if NC just sold me the adena and items i need for cheaper so i can save a bit of cash to buy so booze and drugs so i can drown my sorrows and forget about my miserable existence"
Exactly. I just did not feel like typing all that over again since last time this topic was on.
This would make things worse, as it would be legal to buy things. You think it is out of hand now...wait until you see prices when it is legal to buy adena.
Ever wonder why not a single one of the many, many free cash shop games sells in game currency generated out of nowhere? That's right, because unlike farmers, an NPC generating the money out of nowhere would bring no countervalue into the academy: No materials, no recipes, no anything.
Even if you leave aside the fact that people who want to ebay should play cash shop games (and would probably fail at them because generally, you can only buy a specific item range there and not replace in game moneymaking completely :p ), this wouldn't stop the farmers, it would just make them switch their schemes.
If people are afraid to buy adena then bots will dry up since they cannot sell their product and make money on it.
Not 1 company has done this because they are scared to kill their game because most people do not want to earn anything hence why FPS are so much more popular then mmorpg's people want instant gratification.
Like i said jkoster, no game company has dare ban buyers yet.
They afraid of the backlash.
Ever Played EverQuest?
They mass ban by looking through logs and banning buyers and sellers.
They will also investigate and ban any players you report for ebaying platinum.
NCSoft can't afford to do this though, since the majority of the player base is corrupt and they benefit too much from the ebayers (who wouldn't play if they couldn't ebay) and the farmers (who wouldn't play if they had no one to sell to). Eliminate those two from the situation and the loss of revenue wouldn't justify keeping the NA servers up.
No, new players will not flourish into Lineage II the way people seem to think. The game has already made a reputation for itself and I don't think NCSoft can really "bounce back" from that.
My experience with playing MMOs for the past 6+ years says that once players form an opinion against a game they hardly if ever reconsider it. Especially not the "hardcore" bunch (busy being hardcore in some other game - and never the time of day to play two games hardcore at the same time, plus, L2 sucks for casuals).
Players looking for a bottless L2 are looking for another game IMO.
These threads bore me sideways yet, for some reason, I feel compelled to read them.
jkoster is about the only one thats got it right.
The only people that benefit from bots are the bot operators. Don't feel sorry for them, they are just leeching of the genuine game players.
What's all this rubbish about the market will crash, prices will rise. That's a contradiction in terms.
Try selling some rare to the shop for its true value based on taxes etc.
Supply and demand creates a price over and above ( or below) the actual price. If a rare item was available but the seller sets its price as too high then he'll reduce his price to sell it if it doesn't sell at his original rate. What's this got to do with bots ?
How often do we read that people can't hunt in catas and necros because of bots ? If bots weren't there then in these places real people would get the drops and sell them on. In this situation, bots are destroying the genuine economy.
If bots suddenly disappeared and everyone wanted animal bones, the price goes to 1200a. Well, if its too high for you, don't buy. Then if no-one bought, the rip off sellers would bring their prices down or just maybe, you'll have to hunt the item yourself.
The absolute answer is remove all bots and punish those that buy outside of game. The game would still work and be playable if nothing dodgy existed.
Like i said jkoster, no game company has dare ban buyers yet.
They afraid of the backlash.
Ever Played EverQuest?
They mass ban by looking through logs and banning buyers and sellers.
They will also investigate and ban any players you report for ebaying platinum.
NCSoft can't afford to do this though, since the majority of the player base is corrupt and they benefit too much from the ebayers (who wouldn't play if they couldn't ebay) and the farmers (who wouldn't play if they had no one to sell to). Eliminate those two from the situation and the loss of revenue wouldn't justify keeping the NA servers up.
No, new players will not flourish into Lineage II the way people seem to think. The game has already made a reputation for itself and I don't think NCSoft can really "bounce back" from that.
My experience with playing MMOs for the past 6+ years says that once players form an opinion against a game they hardly if ever reconsider it. Especially not the "hardcore" bunch (busy being hardcore in some other game - and never the time of day to play two games hardcore at the same time, plus, L2 sucks for casuals).
Players looking for a bottless L2 are looking for another game IMO.
Thank you! Thank you so much for explaining that. I needed to hear that from someone else. That's exactly the impression I've been getting of L2... the bots are obviously very simple to detect, yet nothing gets done about it. I've started threads with suggestions to better the game and attract new players, even a method to easily mass detect and ban botters, but only end-game players reply, telling me it will never happen. Where is the input from new players? Go figure, there are none. L2 simply doesnt implement the features that make other MMORPGs so successful, and it started to seem clear that to implement these features, they would have to lose their bot playerbase, which would endanger them financially. Thank goodness I only played trial and never subscribed. The veteran players who have played for years will stick around, but there is really no reason for legit newbies to be here. The way that NCSoft fails to take care of L2 is the reason that infantile players flock to it... it gives off all the signs of being a lush breeding ground for their kind. Lol...
A shame, because the game is gorgeous and had the potential to be on top.
Thank you so much Trensharo. I will not be subscribing to this game.
It wont end botting at all, nor farming, aslong as there's desirable items that are rare and can get from only a select few mobs/RB's there'll always be farmers. A different game i played tried this solution too, you could even buy the rarest piece in game (was something that helped with enchanting items, increased rate of success; Trina's Piece i believe it was called) and was extremely hard to get otherwise. Still people botted, bought and sold gear, epic rings, highly OE'd gear etc over illegal sites.
-1
People might still buy from other places but this would certainly increase NCSoft's revenues. Also it would make them want to crack down on other sellers to increase their own profit margins. It could also put a price cap on items sold. For example, if NC sold a Baium ring for $100 then that caps out to roughly 100 mil? What's the price of adena now in RMT? So if some ingame store/farmer sells it for higher than that then players will buy direct from NC instead.
And in this way (selling epics) NC would remove last reasons for mass pvp.Why camp Baium for 10 hours and fight enemy alliances to get the boss if you can just buy it and then just gank exp groups withour Texas ranger radar without stupid distractions like ally raids.
problem is that when you start selling you very soon start do things that encourages selling.In many private servers you cant get noble/3rd class quests done without items that can only be bought from administration.You cant get S gr items because mammons dont sell S gr cry/gems.You cant unseal for AA because sealstones drop rate is set to 1/500 compared to retail and need to buy AA from administration.
Also you think NC support and attitude towards its customers is bad now?Wait till the bisness model changes to "[censored] customers when they bought from our item shop already".
This is by no means a final solution and I will take the time to explain why.
First, this has in some form or another been done by many games in east asia which use a "cash shop" as their business model but this has not stopped bots at all.
The farmers will always try to compete in price with the cash shop or simply provide different services.
Second, you are ignoring the fact that farming for adena is not the sole purpouse of botting, many players bot to gain levels, many farmers bot to sell powerleveled chars, many farmers offer powerlevel services.
No game has ever and I hope will ever sell levels for real cash as a business model, the closest thing is some scrolls that double the XP you get while you hunt which is sold by some.
This is a bad idea, it wouldnt work and it would remove the fun from the game legally, all everyone worked for would be rendered meaningless, if you want to play that sort of game I suggest you look elsewhere, there are games like that already when cash makes might.
NCsoft actually attempted to create a game that worked this way. do a search on eXteel. i think its in closed beta now. better graphics, more intense play, and a less steep learning curve than L2. if you want to play a game desinged to allow you to be top dog Because you have lotsa money, please get out of L2. not because i personally dont like you, but becasue you will not be happy playing this game. make the finnancial decision to save your money for eXteel.
sidenote: NCSoft is playing with fire here. which, for them, is nothing new.
+1 IBTL
-1 to that idea.
I know it's going to be future of all MMOGs and blahblah insert any PR here, but I would like to stay at least this one to be as it is :p
As long as these posts come up, I'll keep saying it. The best way to remove the perceived need to bot and buy adena is to increase the fun factor and playability of the game at lower levels. And this is completely within the reach of the players to do this without NCSoft. Mass bannings would end the game, selling adena would only precipitate the problem.
NCsoft actually attempted to create a game that worked this way. do a search on eXteel. i think its in closed beta now. better graphics, more intense play, and a less steep learning curve than L2. if you want to play a game desinged to allow you to be top dog Because you have lotsa money, please get out of L2. not because i personally dont like you, but becasue you will not be happy playing this game. make the finnancial decision to save your money for eXteel.
sidenote: NCSoft is playing with fire here. which, for them, is nothing new.
These threads bore me sideways yet, for some reason, I feel compelled to read them.
jkoster is about the only one thats got it right.
The only people that benefit from bots are the bot operators. Don't feel sorry for them, they are just leeching of the genuine game players.
What's all this rubbish about the market will crash, prices will rise. That's a contradiction in terms.
Try selling some rare to the shop for its true value based on taxes etc.
Supply and demand creates a price over and above ( or below) the actual price. If a rare item was available but the seller sets its price as too high then he'll reduce his price to sell it if it doesn't sell at his original rate. What's this got to do with bots ?
How often do we read that people can't hunt in catas and necros because of bots ? If bots weren't there then in these places real people would get the drops and sell them on. In this situation, bots are destroying the genuine economy.
If bots suddenly disappeared and everyone wanted animal bones, the price goes to 1200a. Well, if its too high for you, don't buy. Then if no-one bought, the rip off sellers would bring their prices down or just maybe, you'll have to hunt the item yourself.
The absolute answer is remove all bots and punish those that buy outside of game. The game would still work and be playable if nothing dodgy existed.
The only people that benefit from the bots are bot operators?
The only people that benefit from the bots are bot operators?
I stopped reading right there.
/Disappointed
Who benefits from wasting money? This is all things they can do THEMSELVES, but no, they have to let someone's 101001 do it for them.
Hell, they don't even have the balls to 101001 themself. They just pull out the plastic and waste a few hundred dollars so they can say "No! I don't bot!"
No, it's just cheaper and faster to buy the adena directly than to waste days 1010101ing to get the adena themselves not to mention a banning of a 1010101ing group can cause them to lose millions of adena in an instant.
Ebayers directly benefit from the farmers, in game.
What does "wasting money" had to do with Lineage 2. If they could buy things with USD in the game they would just go up to a vendor and buy their gear, right?
Buy 4-9 accounts for 20'ish bucks each (if get a deal from gamestop or something) to farm cash for 2 weeks or so to afford you a grade.
Or spend less cash than you spent for those accounts to just ebay the adena to buy the gear form giran?
Cheaper + Faster.
Where do you fail to see this logic?
And I don't kill anyone two grades lower than me unless it attacks me, not even if they're red.
It's cheaper and faster to get adena via ebaying than farming it yourself unless you are a farmer (who sells ebay/items/etc.) and less risky also.
You might pay for all those accounts and get them banned the first night you start running the bot train for all you know, and you have to gear them up too.
It's not the destination but the journey that drives us.
I had to somewhat laugh at this. Sounds very nice and philosophical.
But tell that to all the people that ebayed accounts and adena so they can join the end game without fiddling with L2's pretty worthless grind (cause you don't get much from it IMO - insomnia maybe?). I can name no less than 10 ebayed/farmer toons in top alliances on my server - I'm pretty sure everyone else can do the same.
That statement is false for the most part. Maybe it's what drives you and me and someone else, but that hardly applies to hardcore endgame players. They don't care about this worthless journey. All they care about is being at and conquering end-game. That is the destination, if I'm not mistaken?
The only people that benefit from the bots are bot operators?
I stopped reading right there.
/Disappointed
Ok, the people behind them then, is what I meant. The people that receive the real money for the adena and items that are sold. I don't regard players' access to items from bots as a benefit. The pure money benefit in the current situation is going to the adena/item/account selling organisations.
Ok so there are many bot subscriptions that NCSoft get but statements like "L2 is a bot free game" would bring in many subsrciptions too.
If NCSoft went down the route to sell items then the real challenge of the game has gone. They would then have to create more and more challenging aspects to the game for it to hold players longer than a few months. I don't think I'd continue to have 3 accounts and I'm sure many others would move on too.
I believe Cabal has just gone down this route. It will be interesting to see how it plays and lasts.
I've heard that a game was in the making that was supposed to have something similar but no monthly fees. In other words the revenue would be from selling items and money officially.
On the other hand Eve Online supports trading online currency for time cards. And no one seems to complain.
I don't regard players' access to items from bots as a benefit.
Which is a too restricted way of looking at things - where do you think most of the "legit" people get their recipes?
It is an important factor.
Of course, it's as easy to fix as making all these recipes spoil at a reasonable rate (1/xxx) and fixing it so that rare spoils always go to BH inventory and BH only generates random mats for party... but you know, NCSoft fixing the dwarf class is about as likely as hearts raining from the sky and making all the major alliances dance around a fire holding hands.
Changing spoil rate or any drop rate wouldn't change anything. If everyone could afford an S grade weapon people would be e-baying OE +10 weapons.
Up to B grade everything isaffordable even for new players which if they play smart can actually earn a lot from selling basic materials which are overpriced even over 10 times its base value.
Changing spoil rate or any drop rate wouldn't change anything. If everyone could afford an S grade weapon people would be e-baying OE +10 weapons.
Up to B grade everything isaffordable even for new players which if they play smart can actually earn a lot from selling basic materials which are overpriced even over 10 times its base value.
Quick solution to L2 botters: Come play LOTRO with me. Downloading game content right now and have been told on the forums that Landroval is the unofficial RP server, which I will probably join. I had to buy the game today when I found out that you can play musical instruments live in game, note for note, and that people play duets and also in bands in the pubs. I'm in love.
Best soliution - fully instanced content.Everyone gest what they want :
Game company - large profits from legit and unlegit accounts.
Farmers - can farm/bot and sell what they want.
Ebuyers - can buy items gold accounts.
Legit players (and some idiots) - dont see farmers/bot trains all over the place and can have game company announcements like "in our victorious struggle with bots we have banned another bazillion accounts!" or "no no there is no bots or farmers in our game!".
Everyone happy altho instances sucks [censored] imo.
Sorry, played LotR and there are bots there too. There is no game right now that doesn't have them except for those that you have to get the drops yourself and even there, you can get someone to power level you so it is all the same thing.
Quick solution to L2 botters: Come play LOTRO with me. Downloading game content right now and have been told on the forums that Landroval is the unofficial RP server,
Hope the RP community has improved since Beta. I thought L2 was full of elitist pricks... boy, was I proven wrong.
Funny story about Landroval during LOTRO Beta... I'm levelling my minstrel and get into an IC conversation with a guy... and about 90 people jump down our throats for RPing in "that" channel, I think it was the "Advice" channel... so we go to the map-wide... and get yelled at by even more people... and so on and so forth until we'd exhausted every possible chat-channel in the game... so I went back to the Advice channel and asked "So what channel is for RPing?" and no one had an answer.
Logged off, deleted the client, never looked back.
So, let us say we are trying to get an expensive clan home. Everyone is moving mass amounts of adena towards the leader or the warehouse. All alts are feeding the primary and the primary's are feeding a leader and the leaders the head fearless leader. The tripwires would be ringing off the hook.
Just my idea after the read over.
I could also see mass movements of stuff after a sucessful raid or the distribution of unique items with in a clan.