anyone notice the name of the new player that just got his thread deleted like 5 seconds ago? was gonna reply to it but, maybe ill just send him a mail.
It was forbitzz. I removed the thread because it violated one of our forum rules. The rules state, "I'm leaving" threads are removed due to the inevitable flaming that immediately ensues. They are thus no more than troll threads. We welcome constructive feedback and are always sorry when a customer is unhappy.
I've had to remove generally positive threads for the same reason. I really wish folks would read the rules. :(
While the rule seems to catch a lot of trolling threads, I've also seen a fair few really mostly constructive things removed because of a mention of someone quitting. Isn't there some way to formulate the rule to differentiate more closely?
Just a quick thought...maybe instead of deleting "I'm leaving" threads, maybe you should lock them, so people can see why others are unhappy. And maybe, NC will finally do something. Most people leaving has to do with bots, economy, grind or all of the above.
this is what i was going to mail him. hopefully he will read this, and realize that L2 isnt all that bad, his initial experience was simply bad luck.
I wish I could say I met some friendly people in my little travels but im afraid im not sure I even met more than 3-4 real people and thier second accounts.
there ARE people that play this game with only one account, though i have to admit its a bit harder to play the game like that since a lot of people have 2 accounts, and some have 20+ accounts. i wish you had met Real players, your story is exactly the reason why i hang out in newbie towns as often as i do, and i really wish more players took some responsibilty to do the same. just so you know, the lionna server is much more what i think you are looking for. lots of roleplayers there, people arent in such a rush to get to top level to compete, more people with just one account. i play on devianne server. and im sorry about the mod deleting your post. that really doesnt happen often, but i didnt have time to read all the replies before it was deleted, im sure someone replied to you with something offensive.
so, he closed his account then, 2 seconds after his thread was deleted? odd. if thats the case than meh, his loss. i wish people would give this game more of a chance. and by that i mean i wish the people who are already playing, would take more time to explain things to new players, instead of just using them to increase their PK count.
His post not only lacked any constructive comments, but was also flat out inaccurate. He said he has been raiding in WoW for three years, and that's about the only part of his post that likely contained any truth.
Good job deleting it, and if you didn't delete his user profile, you may just as well of. He was only here to stir stuff up, nothing more. He doesn't deserve being considered a "new player". If you actually read his silly post, it would be obvious what he was here for, and it was not to try L2.
Hi guys, thanks for the replies apart from the Bambam guy who seems to be having some sort of Emo crisis and not keen on new players. Not sure what constructive comments you wanted? I just gave an account of what happened to me in my first week.
I replied to the Forum mod saying I thought it very unfair to delete my first impressions thread. Alas I figured it was cause they don't want bad press on the forum.
I guess I could try another server, like the ones you mentioned, just a shame now as I made that money in the event on the euro server as im a euro player and thought it would be best if I ever got high enough to do the sieges because the times would suit me better.
Honestly though having my thread deleted pretty much summed up things for me though, they can delete my thread saying how hard a time I had in my first week, and yet they couldnt delete the bots, but then again I guess the bots are paying for a lot more accounts than me.
Don't get me wrong I did enjoy my times when there was no bots about but it was pretty lonely and felt a lot like a single player game.
Edit : I never even got to read the replies on the thread :(
This is a game ment to be hard, not like WOW. You have to actually try to level, not sleep for a day and level faster. This game is for those with a strong will, the true hardcore gamer. The weak will fall to the side as the stronger march on their dead bodies to glory.
Most can not handle Lineage 2, it is not for the weak.
Leveling is not the issue. It's the true lackluster loot drop table that is.
Well, whether it is "loot" or leveling, this game is not like other games. It takes a certain type of personality to "want" to stay and stick it out.
Has nothing to do with whether or not that personality has any greater or lesser merit as a person. It just means that certain people will like this game and certain people will hate this game.
In this game you really have to "want it". Whatever "it" is. And you have to have a thick skin. Or at least be able to take a break and come back to it with renewed purpose.
Of course the game suffers because there isn't a torrent of new players.
I have often thought that online games should have one main city so that new players can see and interact with experienced players right off the bat. otherwise, when the game gets on in years, new players find themselves in a wasteland.
Or, another way around that would be to make it viable and a desired thing to actullly go back to new player areas. That could either be accomplished with desirable higher lvl hunting areas, adding sub areas in some of the new player dungeons that are for high lvls, or even put clan halls in the new player areas that allow for porting to higher lvl areas.
Most can not handle Lineage 2, it is not for the weak.
Um...Lineage is just a game. Few enjoy it's current set up in every aspect. I think a better statement is, "Lineage 2 is not for those who have real lives, it's impossible to compete with cheaters"
The most important thing is if you decide to give the game another chance, firstly have a read on some of the server forums here, it will give you a feel for what the people are like that play there.
Once you make your choice, introduce yourself on that forum. There's always someone kind enough to help you out with general tips, showing you the ropes etc as a newbie :)
Most can not handle Lineage 2, it is not for the weak.
Um...Lineage is just a game. Few enjoy it's current set up in every aspect. I think a better statement is, "Lineage 2 is not for those who have real lives, it's impossible to compete with cheaters"
If you do not enjoy how hard the game is or your real life prevents you from being competitive, go find a game that allows you to be happy.
Posting about how hard Lineage2 is and how your real life makes it “impossible to compete with cheaters" will not change the fact that you would only be successful or happy in a game less challenging.
Most can not handle Lineage 2, it is not for the weak.
Um...Lineage is just a game. Few enjoy it's current set up in every aspect. I think a better statement is, "Lineage 2 is not for those who have real lives, it's impossible to compete with cheaters"
If you do not enjoy how hard the game is or your real life prevents you from being competitive, go find a game that allows you to be happy.
Posting about how hard Lineage2 is and how your real life makes it “impossible to compete with cheaters" will not change the fact that you would only be successful or happy in a game less challenging.
And yet RL doesn't state if you can or can't be competitive in a game like LII ;)
More then 3 years happy player so far and RL hasn't been compromised...The secret? Give up trying to compete with those who need back doors :)
LOL ok, whatever you say. I've been at this game for a while. I am tired of bots, I am tired of seeing a new hero who I KNOW cheated their way up. It has nothing to do with how challenging lineage is, it has everything to do with the fact that there are a lot of cheaters in this game who are ruining it for the legit players.
This was a reply to the comment stating that I need to find a new game...
Not sure what all this talk about the game being hard, or comparing it to wow. I never once mentioned about it being hard, or compared it to wow, in fact the reason I decided to try it out is I have played other eastern games and enjoy the grind. The problems I had without having to redo my post that was deleted was the bots and there was no mobs to fight, and the fact there was noone to play with as people seemed to be self sufficient with thier other accounts buffing and healing them.
As per the advice I got here will try the other euro server as the one I chose may have had more bots and less new players than the other servers. I dont think there is much of a point trying a US server as I wont be able to partake in sieges etc if I ever get high enough.
Wow, people are still calling Lineage II a "hard' game.
One of the easiest games I've ever played in all aspects of it.
Farming money for gear/supplies can be monotanous, but it's not difficult.
The fun is ruined by various entities that make it almost impossible for many people to play the game legitimately.
Manor but keep you crops for weeks because you can't beat the farmers to turn them in.
Can't play a dwarf because agro Farmer clans perma-farm the good spoil areas and mudflate the economy with gear that is sold at incredibly low prices - and they COMPETE in a way that locks you out of the market.
Botters and Powerlevelers taht are 5 levels under you one week and 10 levels higher than you a week later.
Lineage II isn't a difficult game, it's just a broken game.
Sticking with a monotony is very difficult for some people - I certainly have an easier time doing something more complex than grinding away in the same room on a single character (therefore the two-boxing to keep me entertained).
Just look at all the ebayers and botters: Prove that the sheer length of the game definitely poses an obstacle to people that they can't get past.
Otherwise, I'll agree whole-heartedly with Leynaire. Anyone who pushes the ebay/bot button is not worth competing with.
Hi guys, thanks for the replies apart from the Bambam guy who seems to be having some sort of Emo crisis and not keen on new players. Not sure what constructive comments you wanted? I just gave an account of what happened to me in my first week.
I replied to the Forum mod saying I thought it very unfair to delete my first impressions thread. Alas I figured it was cause they don't want bad press on the forum.
I guess I could try another server, like the ones you mentioned, just a shame now as I made that money in the event on the euro server as im a euro player and thought it would be best if I ever got high enough to do the sieges because the times would suit me better.
Honestly though having my thread deleted pretty much summed up things for me though, they can delete my thread saying how hard a time I had in my first week, and yet they couldnt delete the bots, but then again I guess the bots are paying for a lot more accounts than me.
Don't get me wrong I did enjoy my times when there was no bots about but it was pretty lonely and felt a lot like a single player game.
Edit : I never even got to read the replies on the thread :(
forbitzz,
I don't know how many of those in this thread read your original post that was deleted, but I did, and replied.
Your first gripe was how difficult it was to find pigs to kill due to bots. I replied that while that was true, more so in the newbie area, it wasn't a server wide problem. You should of used your newbie transport tolkens and found a better spot, but there is more you could of done, as I will explain. By the way, if you were on Sieghardt, I was able to kill the bots in Dark Elf newbie area and have the place to myself. Those bots didn't have the high level protectors other areas did, and when my perma red character killed them, they remained dead on the ground for hours on end.
You also complained about how few legit players you met, leading to a solo experience. Your original post was the first post you made on this forum. I explained that knowing you are entering a game 3.5 years old, would lead most people to post on the server board they joined to find a clan to join. That would of changed your experience dramatically, as even high level players roll alts often and have Academies you can join for clan benefits and companionship.
You then went on to conclude that given the number of bots, and state of the economy, you believed this game "required" one to purchase items from a third party to be competitive. To this I responded that having played this game for 1.5 years, and returned 2 months ago, I have never felt a need to do that, or ever would. Granted, my highest levels are 58, but I am enjoying the game very much, and just don't see every buying 3rd party stuff; it's not in my make-up as a player, and I am certainly not alone.
So given all that, your post appeared to be a troll post. My apologies if I am wrong, but what I suggested above seems like common sense, and your post came off like just a cheap shot, lacking merit.
I am glad to hear you are going to give it another try. It's a great game, and if you take a few of my suggestions, would be interested to learn if it helps.
You mentioned you raided in WoW for three years. I lasted six months in that game and couldn't stand the end game and thought the pvp lame in code provided sides. Hopefully you may find the aspects that make this a better game to out-weigh some of the negatives you experience along the way.
Not sure what all this talk about the game being hard, or comparing it to wow. I never once mentioned about it being hard, or compared it to wow, in fact the reason I decided to try it out is I have played other eastern games and enjoy the grind. The problems I had without having to redo my post that was deleted was the bots and there was no mobs to fight, and the fact there was noone to play with as people seemed to be self sufficient with thier other accounts buffing and healing them.
As per the advice I got here will try the other euro server as the one I chose may have had more bots and less new players than the other servers. I dont think there is much of a point trying a US server as I wont be able to partake in sieges etc if I ever get high enough.
don't bother playing man
it won't get any better as you lvl and you won't be having anymore fun then you are at lvl 1
the rest of you ppl need to look past the need for new players and realize this guy has seen the flaws with the game and has chosen not to play based on what he has seen
a fair decision to make if you ask me
Lineage II isn't a difficult game, it's just a broken game.
This seemed to me to be one of the best statements I've read in a long time. I enjoy many aspects of the game, but, in some ways it is broken.
I read the OP's original post. In some cases, his statements were exaggerated, but only a little. For example, players are not required to have a second account, in the literal sense. But there is a reason so very many players do in fact have second account, including myself, and it's not just because we like the game so much that we want to throw extra money at the company who provides the game.
A 2nd account is great if you play the market. One toon can buy while the other sells. If you are in the right markets *cough Top D grade weapons cough* then you can make more than *cough buy/sell crystals cough* what you pay for that account. Having a buffer/recharger is convenient if you have a crafter. Also you are not limited to freight/dropping stuff to move things between characters. There are more advantages but I'll stop there.
I will agree with that. But his observation was really related to seeing a lot of buff boxes. Others that I recall from the deleted post were the sheer number of bots in the game and the lack of live players. That last one, we all know the reason for that, but many of his other observations and conclusions after just a short time of play were pretty much on the mark.
I don't know how many of those in this thread read your original post that was deleted, but I did, and replied.
Your first gripe was how difficult it was to find pigs to kill due to bots. I replied that while that was true, more so in the newbie area, it wasn't a server wide problem. You should of used your newbie transport tolkens and found a better spot, but there is more you could of done, as I will explain. By the way, if you were on Sieghardt, I was able to kill the bots in Dark Elf newbie area and have the place to myself. Those bots didn't have the high level protectors other areas did, and when my perma red character killed them, they remained dead on the ground for hours on end.
You also complained about how few legit players you met, leading to a solo experience. Your original post was the first post you made on this forum. I explained that knowing you are entering a game 3.5 years old, would lead most people to post on the server board they joined to find a clan to join. That would of changed your experience dramatically, as even high level players roll alts often and have Academies you can join for clan benefits and companionship.
You then went on to conclude that given the number of bots, and state of the economy, you believed this game "required" one to purchase items from a third party to be competitive. To this I responded that having played this game for 1.5 years, and returned 2 months ago, I have never felt a need to do that, or ever would. Granted, my highest levels are 58, but I am enjoying the game very much, and just don't see every buying 3rd party stuff; it's not in my make-up as a player, and I am certainly not alone.
So given all that, your post appeared to be a troll post. My apologies if I am wrong, but what I suggested above seems like common sense, and your post came off like just a cheap shot, lacking merit.
I am glad to hear you are going to give it another try. It's a great game, and if you take a few of my suggestions, would be interested to learn if it helps.
You mentioned you raided in WoW for three years. I lasted six months in that game and couldn't stand the end game and thought the pvp lame in code provided sides. Hopefully you may find the aspects that make this a better game to out-weigh some of the negatives you experience along the way.
Good luck.
-Bambam
Thanks, the only reason I came to the conclusion everyone must buy gold is that I figure these bots wouldnt be so many if people were not buying gold. Personally I wouldnt buy either, as it would take away the whole reward of putting in hard work and I would get very bored very quick.
I was going to try the newbie travel token, but I figured its hard enough trying to work out where to go in one area so I will just stay put. I guess I should have looking back.
I can appreciate the game has been going years, but I still expected to find at least a few new people I could group with, but some people pointed out here that doesnt really happen till a bit later on.
As for WoW, I do enjoy the large scale raiding and team work (I also agree the pvp aspect is terrible), but it only takes up a certain amount of time each week and I do not intend to level another character there so there is nothing for me to do in it when not raiding. Which is why I ended up here.
No, people buy gold because they want to get 'up there' within a few months to compete with the people who have been playing (and quite possibly cheating) for years - so they buy adena (and bot) in order to skip the 'annoying' PvE and rather large money-making part of the game, and can be independant from a clan for making money.
If you enjoy money-making in an online game and coordinated clan efforts, you can easily play this game without cheating, although you won't be able to avoid having money that has gone through farmer hands in your pocket (whenever you sell something and aren't completely ripping yourself off, chances are that it's a cheater buying it - there are that many of them).
Try to find a good clan, and groups should be plentiful - check out Gustin, Hindemith and maybe Bartz (although the 'big' servers' bot problems seem even worse than elsewhere). If you're unsure where to find a clan, try to make an elven alt and run it down to Dion to look for a recruiting academy (or look for postings on various Lineage II message boards of clans looking for academy members).
Yes, the game has very many drawbacks, but all in all I don't think the clan experience is quite as close and the drama quite as funny anywhere else. ;p
I would agree here too. There are many clans who would welcome you into their academy and all of a sudden you will there are a lot of people on.
This game can be anything you want to make of it. Fun evening or a serious grind, but you have to decide on how you are going to play it.
We see all kinds in our clan too. We have new mothers who get on maybe a few hours a week once the baby is in bed and we have others people who grind 12 hours a day. Each person has a very different ideal about what they want out of the game.
The suggestion about going down to the server forums is good too. You can see who is looking for people or at the very least, get some in-game names to pm and introduce yourself.
I know we will at least come down to a noobie village and give some starting adena and a bit of advice if we feel that it is a new person trying and not just another re-roll.
Ditto on the latter by the way - if you need a bit of help as a new player on Lionna, PM Elies and I'll be glad to pop on and try to help out with a few tips, buffs and maybe even gear. ;p
gotta tell ya friend, these boards are full of supposed "new players" posting their first note about bots. In your case, perhaps the event was a bit of a shock since it brought bots out of the woodwork.
For 'most' of the supposed new players posting about bots--it's just tired and silly. I'll bet I've seen 50 posts in the past 6 months that all say essentially the following:
"Hi, I'm new. I've been playing WoW. This game sure sucks cause of all the bots. Did I mention I hate bots? There are no bots in WoW. Too many bots. God I hate bots. If L2 cared they'd ban bots. Obviously this game sucks cause of bots. WoW is better. Too bad--I loved L2 the 24 hours I've been playing.....did I mention WoW is better?...."
New players (when there aren't events as in your case) don't have issues with bots. Zero problems. There haven't been enough bots in lowbie areas to matter for a long time. No problem finding mobs, no problem with lowbie cata rooms, no problem with quests....
So for those of us who've been here awhile, it sure looks like a regular smattering of WoW players jump on these forums to pretend to be new players ****** off about the "bot problem"---a problem that hasn't legitimately affected new people for over a year.
Obviously there are exceptions to all of this. Some servers, like Botz...er...i mean Bartz...have significantly more bots than others. Last time I was on Franz it reminded me of Lionna 1.5 years ago--lots more bots.
And of course 'some' new players really are new players and just mistakenly think they should complain about bots cause they see others doing it or have read that about L2.
Fact is, bots don't interfere with lowbies (outside of events like this pig one). They don't.
If you're new and you can't level--it's cause you're doing something wrong. It's not because 10 toons named 'fdfdfdg' in a couple groups are killing goblins or mushrooms.
There haven't been enough bots in lowbie areas to matter for a long time.
Having rerolled frequently, I have to say that 'long time' must have started after I had my last alt (not too long ago). The bronze army has been active regularly, and it has been annoying up to the point of making quests unfulfillable.
I don't know how often you reroll (or where you do so), but if you try to play in orc/dwarf/le/de lands, there is a problem affecting new players a lot more than old ones (I, for one, don't have to worry about racking up a few PKs to clear out my hunting spot because I know I can get rid of the karma fast).
don't bother playing man
it won't get any better as you lvl and you won't be having anymore fun then you are at lvl 1
the rest of you ppl need to look past the need for new players and realize this guy has seen the flaws with the game and has chosen not to play based on what he has seen
a fair decision to make if you ask me
reposting what i said earlier
leave the guy alone, fanboi status is fine but don't delude yourselves or others please
If you're new and can't level--it's cause you're doing something wrong. It is not because of fake toons.
I reroll as often as anyone who posts here. I currently have something like 9 d-grade toons on 4 servers. 7 of those probably in the past 2 months.
I'm not arguing there are no bots. I'm saying there aren't enough to be more than an eyesore.
My point stands. WoW players get a free game card and post here again and again with fake posts. Surely you've seen the dozens of them!
Bots aren't the problem with L2. CHEATERS are the problem with L2....those would be players of REAL toons.
These 'new guys' who'v been in game for 1 day just don't sound legit to me anymore, complaining of bots as if somehow the game is unplayable. Please.....
The main problems (need to cheat and inability to hunt due to bots) are not as extreme as he makes them out to be.
The game, as pointed out, is certainly not for eveyrone - if you can't bear not competing with everyone on the server, if you don't like making money, if you don't want to deal with the presence of cheaters, then the game is not for you.
Despite that, it might offer him something. <shrug> You never know... if he could play WoW, playing L2 shouldn't be that much worse. :p
Yes, there is never any "need" to cheat. It is always a choice. A choice that weak people make who are unable or unwilling to succeed in accordance with the rules. People cheat at basketball, checkers, poker and most any other game.
But the fact remains that those who choose to cheat are losers, they cannot win on their own. They are lame compared to honest players, Real players. There are plenty of honest players but birds of a feather flock together..cheaters run with cheaters and think that there are only cheaters.
Personally I wish that all adena buyers would be banned, we can do without their kind. I volunteer to pay double the current monthly fee if adena buyers are banned.
The main problems (need to cheat and inability to hunt due to bots) are not as extreme as he makes them out to be.
no they are not
the "i need to cheat to compete" started getting old about the 100th time some lamewad ebayer/botter used it on me
you don't need to cheat to play the game and you can still manage to kill a mob most of the time without a bot getting in your way, although quite often you may need to either pk/train/ask them to leave/move elsewhere if you want an area that may be a bit on the infested side
fact is the guy has had enough in the few (1?) days he played and it's not like it's gonna get any better so he should just leave and everyone else should just respect his decision instead of trying to show him some silver lining that he may never be able to appreciate
Granted but surely it is better to at least try and present L2 as worthwhile even with all it's faults than just be defeatist and say 'Yes all your points are right, it is best to leave now."
If we always did that then noone would ever change their mind and try again. We have too few new players as it is, we really should try and fight to keep the ones that do arrive.
Only my opinion of course, I'm sure many will disagree :)
Having rerolled frequently, I have to say that 'long time' must have started after I had my last alt (not too long ago). The bronze army has been active regularly, and it has been annoying up to the point of making quests unfulfillable.
I don't know how often you reroll (or where you do so), but if you try to play in orc/dwarf/le/de lands, there is a problem affecting new players a lot more than old ones (I, for one, don't have to worry about racking up a few PKs to clear out my hunting spot because I know I can get rid of the karma fast).
I really don't have any problems with bots on Hinde O.o And I have few academy level toons: elf & 2 de.
I rather fought with real players (and their dualbox) for spot not with bots. This is last 1,5 month.
Also, I had no problem with competing for pigs. If there were too much players/bots in one place, why not look for better spot, if you don't want to compete? there were so many places with pigs. And few days ago, pigs in DE were all for me, nobody in sight :P
Granted but surely it is better to at least try and present L2 as worthwhile even with all it's faults than just be defeatist and say 'Yes all your points are right, it is best to leave now."
If we always did that then noone would ever change their mind and try again. We have too few new players as it is, we really should try and fight to keep the ones that do arrive.
Only my opinion of course, I'm sure many will disagree
i see it differently
either the guy quits now or he does it a month or two
worse yet he decides the game is only playable while earning frequent flier miles with 5 buffers "walking" behind him acting "super"
it should not be our job to conjure the guy back into the game with arguments which are verging on self delusional, the game design should do that itself
if he is not happy then the game may not be for him
It's a bit difficult to make up your mind whether you are 'happy' or not with a game after just one day, if he even managed that much hence most people will try and point out the good stuff rather than the bad, which we all know exists.
i see it differently
either the guy quits now or he does it a month or two
worse yet he decides the game is only playable while earning frequent flier miles with 5 buffers "walking" behind him acting "super"
it should not be our job to conjure the guy back into the game with arguments which are verging on self delusional, the game design should do that itself
if he is not happy then the game may not be for him
As I see it differently. It is up to us to try to help them see the good here. Without us, this game is nothing at all to anyone.
People may come here as their first game, or may come here from a pure carebear game, or maybe on their xxx game. We are the ones that can help to show this is a viable and great game. Granted, it is not for everyone, but no game is.
You may agree with them that there are certain issues that don't work as well as they could or are broken, but in the same breath, what is wrong with pointing out what really makes this game that much better than anything out there right now.
The main good thing about this game, which I believe is enjoyed universally by all that have stuck around for a long time, the clans, is not something you can usually experience after a day, even if you do join an academy. Finding a clan that fits you like a latex paint-on suit is a pretty difficult task, but even one that is 'sorta like what I'm thinking about' can often turn the game from 'wth am I wasting my time with this' to 'hey, let's see who's on and get a party going'.
By contrast, when I'm doing my game hopping, I usually eventually find myself returning to L2 in order to enjoy a good proper clan after time away.