So, I've made a couple of noobie characters just to see what it would be like to start this game at this time. Here are my observations.
The few people in the starting villages, they say "hi" back if you're lucky. Ask for help, they don't even respond...and I don't mean adena help.
The first people you generally see in chat are heros...of all the heros I pmmed on the servers I made a noob on...only one answered my question and was nice. I had several just not respond (keep in mind they had just done a shout in Hero, so I know they weren't afk),and a few basically tell me to go away they were busy.
Luckily, this was just a test, I'm not a noob, but they didn't know that. The sad thing is, it still kinda made me feel bad. If I was a true noob, you can bet with treatment like this, I would have not bothered to subscribe and looked for another game.
Please, try to be kind to people. Taking a few moments of your time to answer a question just might make the difference to a true noob. Remember, we were all new at one time, and some of us were helped along...pay it forward!!! (corney I know, but you get the point)
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out - they have their own issues, just because newbies can't see their name doesn't mean they're the right people to come to with questions.
This is the right place for newbie questions (well, Player Questions, but close enough).
But I agree, the state of things is sorry - then again, newbies can be real pests. I won't respond to someone who asks for money once anymore.
I am not a hero and I probably never be 1 too.
(not that being a hero is my goal anyway)
But I can tell you this:
If a newbie ask me anything but adena I will help in ways that are of use to him/her (depending on how I feel att ofcourse).
I do not mind spending an hour of my playtime giving advice or insides into this game.
Guess that is the SE-part acting up.
But the one thing that newbie should never ask is adena.
I may go around in a-grade gear but that surely does not mean I have adena growing on trees in my backyard-garden in that nice spot in the world of Aden..
I tell them to hunt like I did. I tell them to run to a village like I did if porting gets to expensive. I tell them if needed to delevel to gather gear like I did.
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out - they have their own issues, just because newbies can't see their name doesn't mean they're the right people to come to with questions.
So, I've made a couple of noobie characters just to see what it would be like to start this game at this time. Here are my observations.
The few people in the starting villages, they say "hi" back if you're lucky. Ask for help, they don't even respond...and I don't mean adena help.
The first people you generally see in chat are heros...of all the heros I pmmed on the servers I made a noob on...only one answered my question and was nice. I had several just not respond (keep in mind they had just done a shout in Hero, so I know they weren't afk),and a few basically tell me to go away they were busy.
Luckily, this was just a test, I'm not a noob, but they didn't know that. The sad thing is, it still kinda made me feel bad. If I was a true noob, you can bet with treatment like this, I would have not bothered to subscribe and looked for another game.
Please, try to be kind to people. Taking a few moments of your time to answer a question just might make the difference to a true noob. Remember, we were all new at one time, and some of us were helped along...pay it forward!!! (corney I know, but you get the point)
Hero means "most fed" in Lineage II.
Doesn't mean they are skilled or "Heroic". A large percentage of Heros are botted up or ebayed accounts anyways.
My suggestion is not to turn on Hero Chat for new players.
I have given away a fair share of top D Grade weapons to new players. Done clan oath for them (brought the crystals myself). Even helped them level and gave them half of my drops to help them along.
But I stopped, because in a couple weeks I always see them running around buying everything up in Giran with more money than you can shake a stick at. Yes, all the new players are pro farmers and seem to jump right into their full top grade sets at C/B/A/S Grade. And how some of them outleveled me with my playtimes (when I was actually leveling :) ) is totally, seriously, beyond me.
But then one confessed. I wont' bother posting the link to the SS that I put in another thread again. Just take my word for it.
Go to any unofficial board asking for help and guess what most of the playerbase (cause more of them post there than here) is going to tell you to do without hesitation? Yea.
Fortunately, there are some IRL poor (not meant offensive) noobs out there and those are always fun to be around :P
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out - they have their own issues, just because newbies can't see their name doesn't mean they're the right people to come to with questions.
This is the right place for newbie questions (well, Player Questions, but close enough).
But I agree, the state of things is sorry - then again, newbies can be real pests. I won't respond to someone who asks for money once anymore.
I have to agree with Maline, just because someone is in the game doesn't mean they should help. You could speak about "common decency" and a variety of similiar ideas but I don't think that resonates with everybody.
If I was a Hero and was in the middle of something, the last thing I would want to see is a pm asking me about how to use shots.
Now, this is not to say that I haven't helped new players. I've given away millions in equipment and money. Heck, I once took a new player on a tour of all the high lvl areas of the game.
If a player has questions then they could ask someone in the game, not a hero because I see no reason a hero would have to answer this, and if they don't get an answer then they should just come to these boards.
It think people are forgetting that this is a competitive pvp game and it attracts many sorts of players, some more hardcore than others.
It is completely within the scope of things to have that new player pked from here to eternity.
Heck, I was once answering a new players questions and realized that all they really wanted to do was to whine about how the game's mechanics were annoying and they were only signing in to waste a bit of time and how bad everything was, etc.
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out
Ohhh :eek:
I disagree in so many ways with that Maline. They are Hero's it is the responsibility of a hero to aid assistance. If they don't then they are not Hero's
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out
Ohhh :eek:
I disagree in so many ways with that Maline. They are Hero's it is the responsibility of a hero to aid assistance. If they don't then they are not Hero's
Sorry Splatter, I don't agree with that.
They are battle Heroes. Gladiators of sorts. It's not about helping at all.
Especially in a game where you can do whatever you want. Just becuase you win Hero and don a golden glow, doesn't mean you are all of a sudden "good and pure".
By that thinking you would be saying that Heroes shouldn't be pking people. And that is not L2.
Or of that is what we are saying then we might as well just go all out and create an alternate rules server and be done with it.
I didn't ask for adena. I'm wearing what I picked up, using the manor system and questing for $$...I'm not rude, I didn't complain about anything, it was suprisingly enough a genuine question each time. I have been playing for years but I don't know everything.
I realise as hero's they are not obligated to help anyone, but the questions I asked were simple enough. I assume hero chat is automatically turned on when you start, I didn't change any settings.
The point is, if they (since they are the first chars seen in chat) were a little nicer, or could point someone in the right direction for the information they seek, the gaming community would be a little nicer...that is all I'm trying to say. No one said they had to, but it sure would be nice. the people who were in the village with me didn't bother to respond when I asked a simple question. I have found three nice people so far, and one hero who answered a question.
What some people fail to remember is, not everyone who starts L2 knows what it's all about. The "if you don't like it leave" attitude is becoming the norm especially in these boards...well, that's exactly what people are doing...they are leaving, because they don't like it.
So, lets just try to be a little nicer. We've had potential L2 players quit before they start thanks to some of the feedback they got here, and the little help they received in game...again, I am not talking about adena help.
LOL. Yeah it totally babysits you. "Congratulations, you killed a gremlin, now, talk to the newbie helper for a quest"
"Conratulations, you lvl up" "be careful, be sure to watch your hp as when it hits 0 you will die, it's helpful to sit down when your hp is low for faster hp regen"
"congratulations, you are now lvl 5, go speak with npc so and so to receive your new skills"
I was like, wow, this different, I don't remember it being this informative before lol.
I'll support Tedwards's general idea--I think most players could be more positive and helpful.
I know it gets hard...I've had many nights where 2 or even 3 newbies were trying to talk to me at the same time, sometimes when I was trying to tank! (eeep!)
Still, crudeness and l33t-speak isn't intelligent and it isn't helpful.
The new player asking where the kasha bears are only needs 10 seconds of someone's time.
When I started I felt a LOT of people were generally helpful and were, overall, "nice" (even when killing me).
Today the general treatment of others seems more crass and crude.
I don't at all think that's related to hero's though. I think that is a definition of the player base as a whole--at least to some degree.
I don't mind personally though--the more other people on my server act like general *******, the more my being 'nice' makes an impact.
~D~
Well, I don't remember any information about how to PM people - that's on the back of the box/on the website depending on how you get into the game.
As for the heroes: A more accurate word would have been 'champion'.
But hey, be honest with yourself: Do you expect anyone who has 'wise man' written over their head to be well learned, about life or the game? Do you expect 'knight's to act chivalrous, vagabonds to be shady figures and noblesse to act in any way, shape or form noble? What makes hero so very different?
Here's the thing, every time i talk in hero i get at LEAST 3-4 pm's asking questions or asking for shouts and whatnot. It's ridiculous honestly after looking at it all day you do get short tempered.
Also a definition. (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=hero) NC chose to use 1 c or a and lets not forget that most mythic or legendary heroes were not great people. Robinhood was famous for disfiguring Guy of Gisbourne so badly his own mother couldn't recognize him. Gilgamesh was a monstrosity to his subject for much of his life.
The point is people obsess about the meaning of hero and impose all these ideas about what it should be without caring what it is. It is a reward for being acomplished in the game. As simple as that. I try to help folk when i can but that's my choice and i'll be ****ed if i'll agree with people trying to force their ideas of what our heroes should be doing on others.
LOL. Yeah it totally babysits you. "Congratulations, you killed a gremlin, now, talk to the newbie helper for a quest"
"Conratulations, you lvl up" "be careful, be sure to watch your hp as when it hits 0 you will die, it's helpful to sit down when your hp is low for faster hp regen"
"congratulations, you are now lvl 5, go speak with npc so and so to receive your new skills"
I was like, wow, this different, I don't remember it being this informative before lol.
It wasn't. They used to just throw a can at you and yell "get the [censored] out" :o
Splatter, there are several definitions to Hero. Here are the definitions that I feel fit:
4.Classical Mythology.
a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence (edit: ignore beneficence) who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
That is how the L2 hero is in my eyes.
Expecting the higher lvl players on the server, even the heroes, to be anything or anyone than "who they are" is like expecting the Seniors in High School to be leagues of maturity above the Freshman and therefore helpful and informative.
We all know that doesn't work.
I'm all for being as civil as one can but I think it's much to expect people who don't hold those values to suddenly change.
My thought is if you want to play L2, read as much about it as possible, look at the boards and then if you think it is for you, try it.
edit: I think the word "Champion" or "Exemplar" might be more suited.
It's not about "being good". It's about being the paragon of the class in battle.
My main is no hero, but I have taken plenty of moments to help noobs. It's not that hard...poor heros, all those pmms they get lol. It must be soooo hard to have fun in the game, being noble, generally in game rich, people looking up to you...OH THE PAIN!!
Anyway, there are some very nice people in the game, but they are hard to come by on chance. It's not our obligation, but if we were all a little nicer and we all took a little more time to help out someone else, more real noobs might stay.
The fact remains, often the firts impression we get of the community would be from heros...since it is the first "chat" we are likely to see. Especially, if no one is around.
I don't think people 'look up' to people for being rich - they probably get a lot of trashtalk for ebaying (even if they happen to be legit), botting, etc. etc. They have a right to help when they want (Physics4Ever has helped me plenty, thanks again for some of the money-making tips :)), and ignore the nubs and play their game in peace when they want.
The hero is not a public service institution. Since it's the newbie that wants something, it's only sensible that they should make the effort (of registering and posting here). I don't feel sorry for people who don't read FAQs and don't ask their newbie questions in the right place.
My main is no hero, but I have taken plenty of moments to help noobs. It's not that hard...poor heros, all those pmms they get lol. It must be soooo hard to have fun in the game, being noble, generally in game rich, people looking up to you...OH THE PAIN!!
Ok well I'm not a hero either but imagine getting several pm's, if not more every time you talk in hero, and I do mean EVERY TIME. I bet that gets old really fast. In fact I've seen heros say something, then comment that they got so many pm's the first pm's scrolled right off their immediate chat screen.
If you think it's fun being spam-pm'd, good for you, that's great. Doesn't mean they have to. Especially not in an open PVP game. You could say I'm a helpful person in game but that doesn't mean I have to do it constantly.
I guess it's attitudes like that that keep the noobs flooding in on lineage2. They're just dying to log into play a game where no one helps. Good thing I'm not a noob and know what I'm doing. And when I started, I had lots of help. Thanks to all those who helped me...or I'd have just been another trial account that never subscribed. You don't have to feel sorry for anyone, noone said "take pity on the noobs". I'm suggesting, to help the noobs. Not everyone does, not everyone has to. But for the sake of the game itself (since we seem to have very little "new" players), why not be a little nicer. Become known for a great community and make noobs WANT to play lineage. I didn't know about the message boards...no I never looked into it, I used this site for everything else, but never looked at the message boards. My questions were answered by nice people I met in game, most of which have since quit. FAQ's don't always answer your question. Even pointing someone in the right direction would be useful. I can't believe this has turned into an arguement lol...over being nice to noobs lol. OK OK, so lets just keep doing what we're doing, watching the lineage population die off, that's a great idea. Heaven forbid we should practice common curtousy I know how difficult that really is. How dare I ask such a horrible thing of people.
I didn't say anyting about looking up to them because they are "rich", generally, people below look up to the people "on top". I do not, because I know what jerks a lot of them are. Some are super nice, and some are just, well, "a ***** with a crown"
If they don't like the PM's, then don't shout in HERO shout for all to see...pm the people you want to trash talk...
I don't feel sorry for people getting a ton of pmms after trash talking in hero chat because they're upset they got owned by war tags...or to brag that they killed like 500 people all by themselves...
I know heros too, at least the ones I know and used to know are nice. They don't have to help everytime, but maybe taking a moment from "I pwned your 10 man group ALL BY MYSELF" to say to someone, I'm sorry, I'm busy, or I don't know, or why don't you try looking it up under FAQ's? Don't like spam? Don't shout in hero...it's all over the world of lineage2...but they already knew that.
You can turn hero chat off though, there's a difference. You can also turn off all PMs but that is super inconvenient as you won't get anything from anyone, or you max out your block list and still get bothered.
Some of us are happy to answer questions or help the noobs but saying people should have to well.. you're going to be disappointed.
Quite frankly, there are some heros that you don't mind hearing. They don't spam hero shout, and they only talk when they have somthing to say that's worth reading. But there are others that are just not worth listening to. There are 20+ heroes and why should I block them all out just because of 1-3.
/block xXHeroXx
xXHeroXx: OMG I've been blocked pls say it ain't so!!!?
Trensharo: /socialslashwrist
lol, I can't believe this is suddenly a debate. No one said they have to or should have to. I SUGGESTED that PEOPLE be MORE HELPFUL. This is not debate worthy...people should be more helpful to encourage a positive community, yes it's pvp free for all...but seriously..,would it hurt to be nicer? Probably not.
If the noobs "need" help then they are playing the wrong game. Learn to be self sufficient.
lol, didn't we have a huge debate about this game being designed to work with eachother and help others to help yourself in the economy post??? So which is it, be self sufficient or work with others?
As I said - I'll always gladly take the time to talk to or help a newbie. But 'you should' is idiotic - especially addressing the heroes.
Yes, this game is all about cooperating... with the people you like. A newbie can not enter that sphere by being a pest and asking for teleport money/gear.
A newbie who is only looking for someone to answer a question and doesn't start it off with 'help plzzzz' will probably get an answer. I haven't seen it happen any other way, but of course I'm always with myself, so my experience might be tilted.
Sometimes when I'm bored, I create toons on servers to specifically annoy and make Heros mad. I get Some really funny retorts I recieve from them, and when they chat block me, I might PM another Hero so he can "pass" on my message to the 'bad' hero :p
I say you guys should try this and befriend a random hero and ask him for a few billion adenas or something else ludicrious. :p
back when i was hero i would try and help noobs when posible
it did get to the point when i would have to tell someone to gtho after telling them to check stratics or the forums and having them ask me stupid questions making it obvious they thought my time was worth less than theirs so it would be better to ask me then to do some reading :(
I agree about the part about people not reading basic info or FAQ first... When I get asked for help or advice, I try to explain if it's short, otherwise I just reply with the websites that contain the info. If the player is really newbie, that's all they need to "educate" themselves. And maybe learn few things that are yet to come...
To me self sufficient means at least making an effort to be well.. self sufficient.
For example there's a difference between whining endlessly in ally chat for a group, or going out and trying to solo or grab even an undesirable partner for some exp. Or forming up for Antharas and then lacking shots, scrolls, porting cash, arrows, etc. You know the type.
Hero, is a badly translated term. What it basically equates to is Champion. Like the King's Champion (best fighter in th kingdom etc.) The heros are suypposedly the best fighters in their particular class, although that idea is a bit flawed in the current system. maybe one day there will be enough of every class to do class specific fights in the olympiad.
A little advice to the "newbs" : read community websites. There are plenty. Never it came to my mind I could pm a hero to get help.
Sure Beckham could teach me a few tricks to learn football, he's elite and should be nice. After all he can speak to the whole world through magazines! But if I want to learn football, I learn the basis in a football club, not stalking the world champions or whatever elite I place on a pedestal.
Nice heroes will help you shouting for you a few things, but they are not tutorial guides. There's a difference between copying a line to shout and going back to xp, pvp, etc, and explaining a newb how manors work. Not everybody is a teacher. If I don't know what you already know, I will spend lots of time trying to figure what information you miss and how to explain.
So... instead of doing stupid tests as a fake newbie, go help them by yourself. When you'll have lost too many IQ points, you'll send them to a website, because if elite is not necessarily polite, newbies aren't either and some of them are really hopeless.
I agree that heroes and experienced players don't HAVE to help any new player.
I also think a little consideration for the truly new player wouldn't kill anyone.
We tend to forget how complicated this game can be! I started in Jan 06. I had never played any mmorpg before. I came to the forums and read some helpful info...but the folks who took 15 seconds to answer my question (while I was TRYING to accomplish things on my own but maybe hit a snag) were priceless!
Being helpful or thoughtful or extending 15 seconds of kindness isn't the job of heroes. It should be something most of the player base in engaged in.
There is a significant change in, let's call it "helpfulness" in this game over the past year or so. Even reasonable questions are treated poorly.
I just heard last night some new player asking where the pet manager was in Dion....in the time it took me to type "by the north gate" he was told "there isn't one", "he's outside of town toward Floran", and "try looking around NoOB!".
Funny? I suppose. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone to give him the right answer. There was a first time all of us visited each town and had trouble locating an NPC.
I agree that heroes and experienced players don't HAVE to help any new player.
I also think a little consideration for the truly new player wouldn't kill anyone.
We tend to forget how complicated this game can be! I started in Jan 06. I had never played any mmorpg before. I came to the forums and read some helpful info...but the folks who took 15 seconds to answer my question (while I was TRYING to accomplish things on my own but maybe hit a snag) were priceless!
Being helpful or thoughtful or extending 15 seconds of kindness isn't the job of heroes. It should be something most of the player base in engaged in.
There is a significant change in, let's call it "helpfulness" in this game over the past year or so. Even reasonable questions are treated poorly.
I just heard last night some new player asking where the pet manager was in Dion....in the time it took me to type "by the north gate" he was told "there isn't one", "he's outside of town toward Floran", and "try looking around NoOB!".
Funny? I suppose. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone to give him the right answer. There was a first time all of us visited each town and had trouble locating an NPC.
I think that's just indicative of online games. There are a few games that are notable for having really helpful communities (Ryzom for example).
However, I've seen similiar reactions in LOTRO and EQ II.
What it comes down to is that the people you meet are going to be like people you meet in real life. There are going to be helpful people and indifferent people.
To say that players should be more helpful is like saying "people in general should be more helpful".
Ok, great. Works for me.
But we know that in practice that just doesn't happen.
Quite frankly, I don't think Heroes should be held to some higher lvl as they are not Heroes because of "good deeds" or being perfect members of the community. They are heroes because they won in battle.
Within the context of the game they have "earned" their place. No more no less. So just because they are more noticeable doesn't mean that they are going to want to be any more helpful than they would had they not become heroes.
Players just need to be directed to places where they can get answers.
I see no reason why the splash screen doesn't have a link to the forums for new players. At least to some of the new player threads that are stickied on these forums.
The sad fact is I wouldnt send any new player to these forums. I read them several times a week but I never go away with a good feeling about the game or the people in it. The amount of negativity about this game that is posted in these forums can be apauling and its no wonder that L2 gets very few new players. This is the official forums and most likely the first place anyone gets info about the game.... try posting good things about the game instead of the bad and the community just might grow a little. I've been here as long as anyone and maybe longer than most that still play and I can still find good things to say about the game. Try being positive instead of negative all the time. Might do us al some good.
It's the tone, the demand. Anyone who's known me in game can confirm that I am, as far as newbies go, a person who tries to be helpful.
But nobody wants to be told what to do - if you take out time to help a newbie, the chances are extremely high that you will (as far as you are concerned) waste a few hours answering questions and giving help only to have the newbie either quit or never speak to you again.
So trying to encourage people to be nice to newbies because it will somehow help is ... well.
at what point did I demand? It was an observation, the tone became undesirable because that is where the replies took it. Suggesting is not demanding. Apparently, like most posts on here, it's taken completely out of context and flamed.
Since when is being nice supposed to be rewarded...it's not being nice if you expect a reward...
I had several just not respond (keep in mind they had just done a shout in Hero, so I know they weren't afk),and a few basically tell me to go away they were busy.
Luckily, this was just a test, I'm not a noob, but they didn't know that. The sad thing is, it still kinda made me feel bad. If I was a true noob, you can bet with treatment like this, I would have not bothered to subscribe and looked for another game.
I don't know about you - but this looks like an 'omg be nice to noobs or they will quit and it will be YOUR fault' to me. You overdramatise the situation, and try to make out benefits that for the most part don't exist - as I said, I try to keep track of those newbies that I help (there are always one or two if I'm in Gludio on a newbie), and in all of my alts (the list in my signature is not complete), there has been *one* who stuck around or ever spoke to me again. And that one quit two weeks later because it 'couldn't make money' despite having been taught how to manor (and taught how to hand in the seeds to beat bots and other players).
NO newbie I've known would start by PMing a hero (except if they said something the newbie felt compelled to reply to) - they talk to the first people they meet or register here on the boards and ask for help, which they usually receive.
Yes, Mom*, the game has many downsides, and people aren't afraid to speak about them. Lying about them here on the boards and then sending people into the game where they bump into them doesn't seem like a good promotional strategy to me.
If you want more positive talk, start a few subjects about good things yourself - don't ask others to do it for you.
* This reminds me of the very freaky line "Husband(friend) has logged in." I get to see occasionally
Huh...if I was saying OMG be nice to noobs or they'll quit, that's what i would have said.
Don't read into what I wrote. This is the first game I've ever played online. I would have quit if my first impression was not so nice. No where did I write you have to. It was a simple suggestion.
For the record, lots of noobs start by pmming heros...I know this because after they don't get help and can't figure simple stuff out, I get the question.
Suggesting people be nicer is positive. Don't try to read my mind, you don't know what I am thinking. Read what I write and take it for what it is. I didn't ask anyone to do anything for me.
This post was not posted directly at you maline...it was a general observation, and a general suggestion. I never said you weren't helpful.
Please, try to be kind to people. Taking a few moments of your time to answer a question just might make the difference to a true noob. Remember, we were all new at one time, and some of us were helped along...pay it forward!!! (corney I know, but you get the point)
What a horrible thing to suggest. How dare I. Stone me to death, I apparently deserve it (how's that for over dramatising the situation)
I still don't know how suggesting people be more helpful turned into this...
I think Maline has the right of it. Though it's not so much that it feels like a demand but more of a "hey, if we don't change our ways and be more friendly then players are going to be turned away.
I think part of that just feels weird because it is a competitive game and the very nature of the players who would want to play would drive them to succeed no matter what.
However, that really is an over simplification of the situation as there are many players who play for their own reasons. So I can see where you are coming from in that some of these players are going to need more guidance.
However, the reality is that the players who are disposed to help other players (and I inlclude myself in that group) are already doing their part.
I just don't feel that by saying "yes we need to be more helpful" is going to yield any better results and in fact I wonder if a number of players might take it upon themselves to be spiteful and just do the opposite (just finding new players and pk'ing them).
Explaining to them that this isn't good for the long term health of the game is just not goinig to work.
I really like where you are coming from and wish more people would approach this as "a game" and actually be more accomodating.
However, having seen parts of the community, I can tell you that the people who would help are helping and those that are not inclined to are not.
Then again, perhaps there is a contingent of players who are really considering being more helpful because of this thread. Who knows?
That was directed at Mom, not at yourself, sorry for the inclarity.
A positive spin on this would have been to speak of the people who were nice to you when you were a noob - I know there are lots of people who were helped at one point or another (in all honesty I'd be very surprised if anyone was around who didn't have a story of an older, more experienced player helping them - thanks physics! XD )... or maybe a discussion on how to best help a newb, what helps keep them in game etc. (This would be interesting - it seems joining an active academy mostly does the trick...).
I know I've had my share of help, from my first free (and admittedly so-addicting-that-I-quit-over-not-being-able-to-pay-them) soul shots to the people who put up with all my BS bad times in game, but that's a differnet story for a different subject.
In any case, being nice isn't a responsibility - and being nice just because you think you should is not worth much either. Be nice because you feel like it (I'm not bitter about the noobs who don't talk to me afterwards, even if it may sound like it), and you won't be disappointed later.
To me self sufficient means at least making an effort to be well.. self sufficient.
For example there's a difference between whining endlessly in ally chat for a group, or going out and trying to solo or grab even an undesirable partner for some exp. Or forming up for Antharas and then lacking shots, scrolls, porting cash, arrows, etc. You know the type.
Exactly. I am saying that if you cant make it 1 week without some help then get out now. Don't waste your time lvling up if you can't figure a few things out for yourself.
As was said before, the newbie guide babysits you. RTM and stop trying to pm heroes asking them questions.
Depending on the question, I can actually understand the sentiment.
For example: I understand why someone doesn't know where to buy higher-end weapons or which class is right for them, I don't understand why someone has to ask where to change class, how to join a party etc.
Were you lost on the quest or on where to hand them in? There are like ... four or five NPCs (end of first class change, enquiry abou the class you're going, and of course the end NPC for each of your quests) that tell you where to change the class...
The game doesnt really involve rocket science so whats the big deal? Anyone with a bit of common sense and good enough english should be able to garner all necessary info from ingame sources and from all the fansites/official boards.
If someone is too lazy to read it, then its their own **** fault. First research, if that yields no satisfactory answers, then go asking around.
And yes, I do help new players, but I will not babysit them nor will I leave my own stuff to help some random newb shouting for help regarding an issue they could easily solve within a few minutes of doing some research.
Academy members and alliance members are another thing ;)
It's not at all the heroes' responsibility to help new players out - they have their own issues, just because newbies can't see their name doesn't mean they're the right people to come to with questions.
This is the right place for newbie questions (well, Player Questions, but close enough).
But I agree, the state of things is sorry - then again, newbies can be real pests. I won't respond to someone who asks for money once anymore.
Right, then let's not call the prophets prophets because most of them (at least until 78) don't prophesise not much of anything, let's not call Elders played by people who are over ninety elders, let's not ...
It's an in game designation. It means that to the people of Elmoraden, these people are heroes because of their superb prowess in battle (or point-shifting), not that they are in any way responsible to act like heroes, any more than being a baron entitles you to receiving some osrt of taxes, or being a knight requires you to act on any code of honour.
I don't think it's a mistake ... as pointed out twice now: There is simply no other in game title that reflects anyone's in game behaviour at all, why on earth should hero? Why do people get so hung up over that one word when there are at least fourty others?
I think "grinder" or "botter" (depending on the person) is a more accurate definition than "noblesse" as well, but that doesn't make me think it should be changed...
Off topic but positive..after doing as many quests as possible and manoring, at lvl 12 I am able to upgrade my armour, not top, butmuch better than the low light that I had picked up...off to quest further to get a better weapon than this squires sword...
I think "grinder" or "botter" (depending on the person) is a more accurate definition than "noblesse" as well, but that doesn't make me think it should be changed...
yeah I'm waiting on academy invite, and, the shadow weapons go to your highest lvl char apparently...my highest char is on Kain, this noob is on bartz, I tried the shadow weapon thing already...
I haven't done class change yet, only lvl 12...but when I talk to the event manager it told me to look in my wh for orders (shadow weapon and armour coupons)
Zhanig: Well, grinding and botting are the only two ways to get noblesse as far as I'm aware ... let me know if you find one that doesn't involve a lot of grinding or cheating... x_x
tedwerd: My bad, I thought you wrote 21 not 12, haha! You'll get the coupons for a mid-D Grade weapon at your class change. As far as no grade weapons go... just use your quested weapon from your hometown, it will serve you well until 20 and not cost you money that you're never getting back.
Zhanig: Well, grinding and botting are the only two ways to get noblesse as far as I'm aware ... let me know if you find one that doesn't involve a lot of grinding or cheating... x_x
There are easy ways to level up character quickly with minimum grinding and zero botting. However in NCsoft fashion its being nerfed in the next content pack so much for that idea.
RTFM? This post had a rather positive ending until...
/delete post by mr.teedoff
Never worked a support type job eh? Here is how it works. Newbie user asks an innocent question. Support guy answers the question. Newbie user asks another question. Support guy answers it and shows them that there is a manual with all the answers to these questions. Newbie user flips through the pages of the manual and continues to ask questions.
The more you answer their questions, the more dependant they become on you telling them rather than them learning by themselves. Next thing you know, they are coming to you a year later with the same questions they asked when they first started.
<--- credit card customer service...I've had my share of STUPID questions asked repeatedly...
As far as power lvling is concerned...we've had it a few times on Kain too...it's called, put legit player in bot group and keep them lvling all day every day for 3 days...
RTM? This post had a rather positive ending until...
/delete post by mr.teedoff
Never worked a support type job eh? Here is how it works. Newbie user asks an innocent question. Support guy answers the question. Newbie user asks another question. Support guy answers it and shows them that there is a manual with all the answers to these questions. Newbie user flips through the pages of the manual and continues to ask questions.
The more you answer their questions, the more dependant they become on you telling them rather than them learning by themselves. Next thing you know, they are coming to you a year later with the same questions they asked when they first started.
There's something to be said about this.
I've helped people who would then continually ask more questions. No harm in that I suppose. But then they start pming me and chatting. This is not bad per se but suddenly I have a "new" best friend when all I wanted to do was help a bit.
Sort of like, if anyone ever played Oblivion, the "Super fan" you meet at the arena who will either follow you around for the entire game or get offended because you just wanted to answer a question but didn't want a new best friend.
However, I can see the need for new players to have some sort of outreach done for them.
That is why I thought it would be a good idea to have an in game bulletin board for clans that are recruiting. I've seen this in other games and thought it was a great idea.
Gives some info on clan, who the officers are and when they are on, etc.
So a new player can get hooked into the clan/alliance/academy scene painlessly.
not even then...you might be able to get 40-70...maybe, but the xp slows down quite a bit past that point. I'd be skeptical even for 70-75, that's a huge chunk of time needed to complete those lvls...I can't remember the xp requirements, but I did see it on a site before, the xp jumps are huge in those lvls, and even higher yet to get 76,77,78 etc.
I Haven't see a good Hero In Bart yet. There a new Hero call aleena i think..at 1st was good but now is juts like the other. they r not Heroes..there [censored] if u tell me..change the name to big [censored]....
They're definitely not using the Marvel definition of a Hero, yeah. No Hero vs Villain. Not only Hero has nothing to do with "the Good" in European culture (and neither in Asian AFAIK), but as far as I remember, Fable from Peter Molyneux has the same definition of Hero than Lineage 2.
As this is a MMORPG, Hero can't mean protagonist.
BTW Fable is great to have a good laugh about "Heroes", with the guard of the Arena making the best quote of the game :p
Now that being said, the thread seems adressed to Heroes (title...), but tedwerd tell us that's for everybody. Ok tedwerd, let's not be paranoid and explain the reaction of "the board". Those who don't help... they don't care about your thread. Those who already help... they may feel hurt because it may sound as a reproach that they don't help enough, or as a proof of their failure because they didn't find you.
Anyway... this advice is useless or very badly worded. Or maybe you're taking too seriously the fact that nobody answers. The cause may be elsewhere... lack of low level characters maybe?
All those who like to help are doing their possible to help, don't worry. Don't blame those who don't answer, you don't know what they went through. Those who say things like "shush noob!"... are not worth mentionning.
Its a niche game, dont tell newplayers otherwise. You have a more credible insight as elite informants, and they can draw their own conclusions. If someone chose not to play L2 right away, they could come back later, and if never you really cant blame them.
my only request to the "elite" please remember that not all folks at lower levels are newcomers. some, like myself, like to take our time at our chosen work. and, i am always willing to answer player questions, if i can. i can NOT abide beggars - they get my standard response - kill mobs for your gold.
i am not a 'hero' nor am i ever likely to become a hero. that follows a different path than i have chosen.