So...if you were NCSoft and were going to make a server..what would you do with it?
IE: PvE only
Enforced Roleplay
Increased experience table
Throw out your ideas here!!!
Also the L2 Vault will be holding a contest around this theme and a poll with a few of our options on it. Here's what to expect to be announced in the next few days!!
"If you could make any server at all..what server would *you* make?"
If you could walk in the developer's shoes and had the power to make a viable server what would you implement for rules? No pvp? Enforced roleplay names? We want to hear your creative ideas!
This contest (once finalized) will run for TWO weeks and more information will be coming. The winner will receive official Lineage 2 Merchandise including:
One day is too little time; you typically need about three workdays to a week to write down a design specification, and even after implementing it, need at least a week of testing for the small changes.
Give me a team and three months, and I'll make you an NPC server which supports dynamic monster migration patterns and a simulated, player-influencable "ecology".
Of course you really do start playing the game the second you log on ... relax a little and treat it as a game rather than a world grind championship and the game can actually be pretty fun.
I'm with Josch here - would need more than one day for the really good changes. And lots of testing to make it work, because no matter how good it looks on paper there's no guarantee it'll actually work.
Of course you really do start playing the game the second you log on ... relax a little and treat it as a game rather than a world grind championship and the game can actually be pretty fun.
its too late i have more 7x toons than 90% of ppl who play the game!!!
*twitch*
like i said its not for me, lots of ppl don't appreciate the grind and its prolly about time L2 caters for the casual player
i really can't think of any other alternate servers tbh
i'm not into RP at all and i don't know if they really need a dedicated RP server, surely you can RP on any server you want unless its a forced RP server where they boot anyone who breaks character ><
im gonna hope noone wants a pure PVE server cause that would just freak me right out but maybe a no PK server might work *shudder*
I'm with Josch here - would need more than one day for the really good changes. And lots of testing to make it work, because no matter how good it looks on paper there's no guarantee it'll actually work.
Sorry about the wording..I didn't mean to infer that you had one day (bad wording on my part)!!!! Fixed!!
- A server with race restricted clans might be interesting, but there's the dwarf snag in that idea.
- An "endgame" server with all characters starting at 75. Basically would be a PvP/Siege focused design, with spawns changed to replace all sub-40 mobs with 40+ mobs
- A rank and leaderboard server. Stats tracked could include (but not limited to) mobs killed, items gathered, items crafted (by grade, and not including consumables), adena owned, PKs, PvP kills, sieges won, etc. Bonuses of some kind to clans with highest totals.
Since L2 has gotten progressively easier over then last coule of years, lets start a 'Traditional Server' with:
50% less exp
less drops, less adena
No brez, no bsoe, lower clan hall rezzes (if you want a % rez, party a healer)
less events to flood the market with enchants
heck, do away with gatekeepers, gotta run everywhere
I support the removal of gatekeepers (and SoEs of any kind which doesn't take at least 5 minutes to execute), but suggest easing up the access to fast (and possibly flying) mounts in this case.
Impose a naming rule set so only letters are allowed. This would restore an RP based feel to the world.
Redo the drop tables... Make it so Adena is dropped for all players and make it so materials are only gained from dwarfs that use the spoil skill. This would make the dwarf back into the resource gatherer they should have been.
Check charecters names to make sure they're realistic (someone said no 3 vowels or consonants in a row, only allowed a single number at the end of the name, simple validation program held server side).
Hard crackdown on bots.
Hard crackdown on adena transfers (check how much adena is being transferred at a time by a player and so on).
If the server fails you still have the old servers running as normal and nothing is lost but experience and more ideas for tthe future gained.
Sure. It doesn't say is the server going to be in addition to the existing ones or a replacement.
If it's going to be an addition, then a server with high rates (exp/drop/spoil/quest/karma), "dummy" noblesse quest at 76 and reasonable server wipe terms (say, every 3 months for 10x server) won't hurt anyone.
So...if you were NCSoft and were going to make a server..what would you do with it?
IE: PvE only
Enforced Roleplay
Increased experience table
Throw out your ideas here!!!
Also the L2 Vault will be holding a contest around this theme and a poll with a few of our options on it. Here's what to expect to be announced in the next few days!!
"If you could make any server at all..what server would *you* make?"
If you could walk in the developer's shoes and had the power to make a viable server what would you implement for rules? No pvp? Enforced roleplay names? We want to hear your creative ideas!
This contest (once finalized) will run for TWO weeks and more information will be coming. The winner will receive official Lineage 2 Merchandise including:
*Poster
*T-shirt
*30 Day Time Card
*Trading Cards
*Paper Doll
So get those ideas rolling around in your head!
(edit: didn't mean for it to infer just one day to do the work :))
A Pvp server for sure.
In this terms, i would make it so that everyone started with max gear blah blah blah. You can purchase buffs in town. Now this would make it even and skill would win pvp.
I would remove monsters from certain areas, open up the forts as 24/7 pvp zones with bonus effects for "holding it" like the guards healing blah blah something cool.
Also open pvp areas like the gates between blazing swamp and goddard? or ABG and varka, would be kinda cool.
Something like that would attract alot of people to teh game, and farmers would have no reason to go there as it costs you nothing.
I would put a limit on the amount of time on the server per day like 3 hours to start with.
Why would anyone want to play on a server that was wiped every 3 months??? x.X Sure, it may curb cheating, but it would also hurt the real players.
Anyway, I would definitely say a relaxed/casual server with increased xp/sp/adena/item drops/quest drops. The rate should not be too easy though - I'd say 10x would be a good number, +/- 5x. If they went too high, you would be 78/78 in no time and would loose interest in the game. (At least I would.) And put a reasonable time limit on it. Not too low (I actually do want to play the game!) but low enough that casual players feel they can compete. I think about 5 hours a day would be reasonable, maybe increase a little on Saturday and Sunday.
Also could make sieges last one hour and have them every weekend, making it easier for casual players to participate. This might not flow with the whole Seven Signs thing, but who cares? The 7 signs doesn't work the way it should anyway. Have the first weekend siege be unaffected by 7 signs (the way it was in C1 and C2) and the second weekend siege be governed by the 7 signs the way it is now.
One thing that I'd like to see on all servers would be some sort of safe spot on teleport zones. Just that one little spot would be a safe zone. Once you move out of it, you'd be fair game. It would give you more time to load up, so there'd be no blackscreening anymore. (And if people want to camp, let them do it behind a rock so the opponent doesn't BSOE!)
im gonna hope noone wants a pure PVE server cause that would just freak me right out but maybe a no PK server might work *shudder*
Why?
It's alternate rules and there have been many threads that went on for pages with people who wanted this type of server. They already have it in Korea.
Quite frankly, if you are going to have an alternate rules server, it would either have to be one that took off some of the penalties for pvp (so promoted more pvp) or with controlled pvp (just sieges, duels, arena).
i'd like to see a server where perhaps the Rules change randomly on the server, XP/SP/Adena drop rates change through out the days, chance of drops change, PVP rules even change slightly (PVP in towns), Call it the Chaotic Server. Make something that is while unique, isn't to difficult to have fun on. People would have to agree to the terms of the specific servers rules before proceeding.
A PvP Server:
you log in, choose race etc..
lvl 80 toon made, you go to town, get free gear, learn skills, buffs, walk out of town, and start pvping other people. This would be much more fun.
And you could have staff hold tournaments on this server. IE: Say You have one top clan from X server that wants to test their luck vs X clan on other server: so they sign up through the main web site (this one). and are pitted against each other the following week.
Relaxed server is most common idea. and will be the most heard of one.
IMO lionna should be made the official RP server, and should have w/e rules that apply to RPing applied to the server.
i'd like to see a server where perhaps the Rules change randomly on the server, XP/SP/Adena drop rates change through out the days, chance of drops change, PVP rules even change slightly (PVP in towns), Call it the Chaotic Server. Make something that is while unique, isn't to difficult to have fun on. People would have to agree to the terms of the specific servers rules before proceeding.
there is no official statement saying it is, tho I know they do the "wishing well" there. thats about the only RP that happens out side of maybe a few RP clans and so on.
I'm talking full blown out RP rules. and a official statement claiming it to be the official RP server by NCsoft-NA.
I honestly don't think there are enough RPers playing L2 in order to have a server dedicated just to RP. It may draw in some new (or old) players who have been waiting for a RP server to open up, but even so, I just can't see there being enough people to make it practical.
not that i care about lionna anymore because the day server transfers come out im gone from that place, but most of the people that mean anything on lionna dont rp. and when i say most i mean all. a few people got together one day and decided that "hey this should be the official RP server lets all go to heine and rp with each other".
Yeah, 'Lionna is the server with the RPers' and 'Lionna is an RP server' are two utterly and completely different concepts.
I'd be curious about a free server with a cash shop model (cash shop containing the usual stuff - exp/drop bonus items, cosmetica etc.), because for some obscure reason even those cash shops that don't help with item acquisition seem to put a dampener on RMT.
RP server would be about the biggest mistake you could make.
Sure, LOTRO is a RP game but they don't have RP Servers (NA). If you are a RP you can use the /rp command and tag your name as RP. Also there are a chat channel only for RP.
About the topic, I think that a relaxed server would be nice (exp/drop/adena x 1.5/2), of course with the ability to transfers chars from live servers to relaxed BUT you can't transfer chars from relaxed to live.
Also a controlled economy in the live servers would be great, because the new players can't confront the inflated prices of the servers.
PS: I would appreciate events of double EXP like COH/COV.
There's no need for an RP-enforced server. Those who want to RP will, those who don't simply won't play on such a server, even if there were tens of thousands of us.
There's simply not enough content in L2 to draw a huge RP crowd. There's the grind... and there's the grind.
Anyway, I would definitely say a relaxed/casual server with increased xp/sp/adena/item drops/quest drops. The rate should not be too easy though - I'd say 10x would be a good number, +/- 5x. If they went too high, you would be 78/78 in no time and would loose interest in the game. (At least I would.) And put a reasonable time limit on it. Not too low (I actually do want to play the game!) but low enough that casual players feel they can compete. I think about 5 hours a day would be reasonable, maybe increase a little on Saturday and Sunday.
5 hours a day is way too much IF you want to make casuals feel like they will able to compete. You would have to cut the hours to 3 a day or 21-24 hours total a week.
what you would end up with in a months time is the players that max their play time (5 hours a day is hardcore btw) they will have on average 84 more hours per month than the "casual" joe who plays around 2 hours a night.
leveling at a x5 rate would have the following result if both the hardcore and casual player xp'd at the same rate. (which of course doesnt throw in the millions of other things that could go right or wrong for either player)
casual player 35th level
hardcore player 51st level
2nd month
casual 47th level
hardcore 65th
so about the time casual joe gets his C grade mr. 1337 is in A grade. By the middle of month 3 mr. 1337 is starting on his sub class and casual joe is finally getting into B grade.
At no time would a casual player feel as if they were able to compete, which would be the whole purpose for a casual player to migrate over to a relaxed server this late in the life of this game.
Alot of us dont want to devote the time we use to into Lineage2...its just not worth it.
Especially camping the Oly for 5 hours a day and other crap.
Although I think a daily time limit woudnt be very good. Weekly would work best for a casual, as typically you'd play more Fri/Sat/Sun then any other day, where as a teen could play M-S and gain a large advantage.
However with that said, pure casual would still lose. Leveling fast isnt so much about playtime as it is in knowing exactly what, when and where.
At no time would a casual player feel as if they were able to compete, which would be the whole purpose for a casual player to migrate over to a relaxed server this late in the life of this game.
Ah, that's funny... cuz I am a casual player and that setup would make me feel as if I was able to compete. I would certainly feel much more able to compete than I am now.
The time limit that people are suggesting is on xp gain and not on actual playing time, right?
There is a casual server in Korea that limits the hours per month that a player can play.
It starts counting down when you are outside a city but ceases when you are in a city.
That conditional you have on the end there was my concern, and I am glad to see it. I like that it is done that way. I can spend an hour or two shopping in Giran and I can easily spend a few hours chatting. It looks like a mechanic that does take into consideration the actual playstyle of many casual gamers.
The time limit that people are suggesting is on xp gain and not on actual playing time, right?
There is a casual server in Korea that limits the hours per month that a player can play.
It starts counting down when you are outside a city but ceases when you are in a city.
Which frankly woudnt help.
It should not count down when your in a shop (buy or sell or craft) but count down at all other times.
This would severely limit Oly camping and make it much more diverse a field who wins/loses.
Well, that seems to be the way it's done. At least as we witnessed (the timer) on one of our past PTS's. Of course it didn't actually "count down" but you would get a message indicating that you had something like 29 hours left. That would then stop when you entered the city.
However, I think everyone whos at/been at/left end game can attest...
Camping Oly is perhaps the most single boring thing you will ever do in your life, bar none, and makes you want to shoot yourself in the head repeatedly. Obviously thats only if your one of the power classes, otherwise your free to do whatever you wish.
There would be many useful quests to help you receive full pieces of armour, decent amounts of adena, full weapons
Shops essentially would be through an NPC "sale house" where you put your item for sale with an NPC, and other could go to a similar NPC in any town to purchase your item.
Raid boss drops would increase, so that everyone would benefit, exp for raids would also increase
There would be no such thing as EXP loss during PvP and no such thing as Karma
There would mage "dungeons"...we want seal stones too!
HAHA Baium would be a "peaceful zone", so if you want to defeat Baium, you all MUST work together, no more of this 50 mil for Baium crap...
EXP at higher lvls would be increased, 76-80...OMG I CAN wait...
This is all I can come up with at the top of my head...
Sure, you'd have about 50 people playing, but make it more PvP centric and you'd have at least a thousand.
Actually, what's funny is that this is entirely the opposite in a major MMO with both PVP and RP and RP/PVP. The official RP server is, by far, the most densely populated (I think it has more subscribers than all of L2NA... ), the PVP servers the least.... though the RP/PVP server has more than the other PvP server, interestingly enough.
Sure, you'd have about 50 people playing, but make it more PvP centric and you'd have at least a thousand.
Actually, what's funny is that this is entirely the opposite in a major MMO with both PVP and RP and RP/PVP. The official RP server is, by far, the most densely populated (I think it has more subscribers than all of L2NA... ), the PVP servers the least.... though the RP/PVP server has more than the other PvP server, interestingly enough.
I bet your talking about EQ.
But here, we are talking about Lineage 2.
Heck, WoW has successfull servers of all trends. RP, PvP, RP-PVP, PvE, etc. However if you've ever been on a "RP" server, you'll find it consists of goldshire's bordello and little more.
Lets look at what L2 is and what people like about L2 and strengthen those points for an american audience.
In my opinion making a server that caters to a niche audience such as roleplayers, casual gamers or PvErs will fail. I base this not only on my personal opinion about such servers but also on extensive market research, which NC NA could easly obtain free of charge by having a look at the many *sucessful* private servers out there, the most successful ones are always "mid rate" PvP servers.
Features:
-10x XP, 10x SP, 20x Adena
-Sieges every weekend
-Faster spawn for epic raid bosses
-Cat shops like on PTS up to A grade
L2 is a team PvP game, with clans at the heart of the game and competition to be the best not as an individual but as a clan being what truly matters. C5, Interlude and CT1 all took great steps to empower this aspect, the introduction of clan rep points and clan skills has certainly made the game more interesting and are steps in the right direction but we need to expand on this.
What NA need is a higher rate server, but with more PvP elements. Removing the penalty for PK isnt in the best interest of the game, that leads to complete chaos and turns the game into something its not, higher rates already encourage PK more as washing karma is easier as is the XP loss from possible death.
Castle sieges will become far more important in CT1 to clans than they are now, so a lot of what the game lacks now will be added then.
Major raids are the other clear example of clan dominance, PvP for control of those bosses is one of the key aspects of the game.
My main advise to NC soft: do some real research into the community of players that really like your game but dislike the current server rules wants, look at the alternative rules servers the community made and what made them successful.
In my opinion making a server that caters to a niche audience such as roleplayers, casual gamers or PvErs will fail.
Actually, I think "most" people are pv'ers and casual players. At least after Wow brought in so many people who never would have played an online game.
Of all the people I know in real life, not a one of them would touch a pvp game. And these are pretty much "regular guys". Beer Making, hunting, hiking, camping, no going shopping, guys.
but when they sit down for a game, suddenly their time becomes extremely important to them. A game like L2 where "anything" can happen would not be on the list. I showed them L2 and they hated the basic tenets.
However, I do think there is a large core of pvp players who are not getting what they want. There is also a very vocal group (minority, majority?) who want very hardcore rules. XP loss, looting corpses, etc.
NC would bring in quite a bit of money if they made a casual or consensual pvp server. It would be extremely full.
However, I do think that they would also win quite a lot of players if they were somehow able too cater to the pvp group who "doesn't" want to grind anything in order to actually pvp.
I say there should be two alternate rules servers. One that is for casual players or consensual pvp players (whichever) and one that has increased drops/adena/xp, no brez or bsoe, drop on death and perhaps increased reasons to actually pvp. There's got to be a reason. I'm not sure if pvp players care about managing a manor. I'm sure they like the money but I think a server with players who want more pvp will be less interested in working the manor or fishing.
Let's not forget the #1 reason that private servers are so popular:
They're free.
Some of them don't even require you to buy the game, you just download their client package, install it, and away you go. At worst, you might have to spend $10 or so registering, and your continued donation allow you get extra perks (like sleeping with the server admin?).
I think the best "alternate" server for L2 would be the one that lets players and their clans... do whatever. Something for players that don't want to go for castles and such. Maybe more raids, and more big dragons and the like... maybe more options to build stuff, maybe a Robot Arena, where you and an opponent get to drive Seige Golems around a mock-up of Aden and smash buildings like Godzilla his own bad self and beat the snot out of each other...
You know, stuff to do.
I bet your talking about EQ.
But here, we are talking about Lineage 2.
Heck, WoW has successfull servers of all trends. RP, PvP, RP-PVP, PvE, etc. However if you've ever been on a "RP" server, you'll find it consists of goldshire's bordello and little more.
Perhaps I am but, one thing I have realized between the half-dozen different MMOs I'm playing right now is... the player base is generally identical. Everyone wants pretty much the same things, with a slightly different spin on it. Reading, say EQ2's or Two Moons or Hero's PvP-Discussion boards is nearly the same thing as reading these forums, as far as talks of class, balance, skills, and "Iwanna" and "Should Bes" go.
Let's not forget the #1 reason that private servers are so popular:
They're free.
I'll completely disagree there.
It has absolutely nothing to do with them being "free".
Its that they are, in fact, BETTER then the official servers.
No Bots? Check.
GM team DAILY? Check.
Events Daily/Weekly? Check.
Enhanced XP/etc to kill the "korean" grindfest? Check.
Weekly Sieges? Check.
Custom Class Balance? Check.
Could go on..and on..and on. Hell on certain ones, you cant even *find* someone using 3rd party programs the GM's are so zealous. I could only wish.
I'm really shocked the previous poster brought it up (balls of steel!), but its completely truthful.
Until NCSoft NA really gets a grasp of what NA players NEED and WANT, the official servers will continue to be dwarfed in size by those of the private sector.
Let's not forget the #1 reason that private servers are so popular:
They're free.
I'll completely disagree there.
It has absolutely nothing to do with them being "free".
Its that they are, in fact, BETTER then the official servers.
No Bots? Check.
GM team DAILY? Check.
Events Daily/Weekly? Check.
Enhanced XP/etc to kill the "korean" grindfest? Check.
Weekly Sieges? Check.
Custom Class Balance? Check.
Could go on..and on..and on. Hell on certain ones, you cant even *find* someone using 3rd party programs the GM's are so zealous. I could only wish.
I'm really shocked the previous poster brought it up (balls of steel!), but its completely truthful.
Until NCSoft NA really gets a grasp of what NA players NEED and WANT, the official servers will continue to be dwarfed in size by those of the private sector.
LOL
youve obviously never played a private server. pretty well the only thing you got right was this: Enhanced XP/etc to kill the "korean" grindfest? Check.
youve obviously never played a private server. pretty well the only thing you got right was this: Enhanced XP/etc to kill the "korean" grindfest? Check.
the rest you can UNcheck.
Are you admiting you've played on them on this, a NCSoft official forum? Smooth move bud ;P
Find the right one, and heres a hint: They sure as HELL arent advertised on Top 100 or any such sort.
no, im not admitting to that. everyone knows bots infest EVERY server. private or not. instanced or not. if in fact youve found a bot-free L2 Pserv, go play it. it will be more fun than officials. but i bet you even a Darn will land you in /ban.
no, im not admitting to that. everyone knows bots infest EVERY server. private or not. instanced or not. if in fact youve found a bot-free L2 Pserv, go play it. it will be more fun than officials. but i bet you even a Darn will land you in /ban.
There is currently no quality free for all pvp game on the market. The Karma system in L2 essentially limits FFA by its very nature. Take me back to old school UO days, at least a little, please.
1) Remove Karma System
2) Increase Loot Drop Tables by 10x
3) Increase rate of XP gain by 4x
4) Random Loot & Adena drop at death
5) Random XP loss at death
6) Limit Character Creation per account to 1 Character
The last item above is extremely important on a FFA server, as it makes ones reputation among the player base, mean something. With no throw away slots, characters will have to continue to reroll if they want to avoid being held accountable for their actions, always remaining low level. In this manner it is the players who decide ones "Karma", not a coded system.
In my opinion making a server that caters to a niche audience such as roleplayers, casual gamers or PvErs will fail.
Actually, I think "most" people are pv'ers and casual players. At least after Wow brought in so many people who never would have played an online game.
Of all the people I know in real life, not a one of them would touch a pvp game. And these are pretty much "regular guys". Beer Making, hunting, hiking, camping, no going shopping, guys.
but when they sit down for a game, suddenly their time becomes extremely important to them. A game like L2 where "anything" can happen would not be on the list. I showed them L2 and they hated the basic tenets.
However, I do think there is a large core of pvp players who are not getting what they want. There is also a very vocal group (minority, majority?) who want very hardcore rules. XP loss, looting corpses, etc.
NC would bring in quite a bit of money if they made a casual or consensual pvp server. It would be extremely full.
However, I do think that they would also win quite a lot of players if they were somehow able too cater to the pvp group who "doesn't" want to grind anything in order to actually pvp.
I say there should be two alternate rules servers. One that is for casual players or consensual pvp players (whichever) and one that has increased drops/adena/xp, no brez or bsoe, drop on death and perhaps increased reasons to actually pvp. There's got to be a reason. I'm not sure if pvp players care about managing a manor. I'm sure they like the money but I think a server with players who want more pvp will be less interested in working the manor or fishing.
What you say is true from a general point of view, but it doesnt apply to L2. If you remove PvP from the equation L2 just doesnt have enough "content" to keep most casuals happy, changes to please an audience that would prefer a game like WoW go beyond the realm of small modifications that can easly be done to alternate rules. I entirely disagree that simply removing PvP would make a the sever a success.
The most important factor with raising the XP rates isnt to please PvPers that cant be bothered to level, its because of the effects it has on PvP. People will be more willing to engage in open PvP when they dont risk to lose days worth of XP, I think L2 is slowly realizing this with the changes done to death loss beyond 78 and those siege scrolls, but it still hasnt had enough effect to promote PvP.
An increase of even 2x to the XP rate would see a dramatic effect on peoples willingness to engage in PvP and make the game a lot more fun.
There's some really good ideas in this thread..I for one would look forward to a casual server :) I think it's great to see some positive input and suggestions. To keep the thread going so we can hear more...just remember not to get it locked please :)
What you say is true from a general point of view, but it doesnt apply to L2. If you remove PvP from the equation L2 just doesnt have enough "content" to keep most casuals happy, changes to please an audience that would prefer a game like WoW go beyond the realm of small modifications that can easly be done to alternate rules. I entirely disagree that simply removing PvP would make a the sever a success.
actually, this is a good point. However, we would have to assume that you weren't removing pvp but just making it "more focused and controlled".
There are a lot of pve players who only pvp during sieges, arena or duels. It's those players who would benefit from a "consensual pvp server".
However, you bring up a good point. These players would have to solely be interested in this type of pvp as a goal as there really isn't any content in this game that would appeal to a player who was looking for "fun" quests.
In my opinion making a server that caters to a niche audience such as roleplayers, casual gamers or PvErs will fail.
Actually, I think "most" people are pv'ers and casual players. At least after Wow brought in so many people who never would have played an online game.
Of all the people I know in real life, not a one of them would touch a pvp game. And these are pretty much "regular guys". Beer Making, hunting, hiking, camping, no going shopping, guys.
but when they sit down for a game, suddenly their time becomes extremely important to them. A game like L2 where "anything" can happen would not be on the list. I showed them L2 and they hated the basic tenets.
However, I do think there is a large core of pvp players who are not getting what they want. There is also a very vocal group (minority, majority?) who want very hardcore rules. XP loss, looting corpses, etc.
NC would bring in quite a bit of money if they made a casual or consensual pvp server. It would be extremely full.
However, I do think that they would also win quite a lot of players if they were somehow able too cater to the pvp group who "doesn't" want to grind anything in order to actually pvp.
I say there should be two alternate rules servers. One that is for casual players or consensual pvp players (whichever) and one that has increased drops/adena/xp, no brez or bsoe, drop on death and perhaps increased reasons to actually pvp. There's got to be a reason. I'm not sure if pvp players care about managing a manor. I'm sure they like the money but I think a server with players who want more pvp will be less interested in working the manor or fishing.
A PvP Server:
you log in, choose race etc..
lvl 80 toon made, you go to town, get free gear, learn skills, buffs, walk out of town, and start pvping other people. This would be much more fun.
And you could have staff hold tournaments on this server. IE: Say You have one top clan from X server that wants to test their luck vs X clan on other server: so they sign up through the main web site (this one). and are pitted against each other the following week.
Relaxed server is most common idea. and will be the most heard of one.
Way to copy my idea soverth.
Maybe come up with our own idea, or quote mine next time. But hey thanks for the support of my idea.
lol As I said relaxed server is the most common idea, that most every one could agree on wanting.
An "endgame" server with all characters starting at 75. Basically would be a PvP/Siege focused design, with spawns changed to replace all sub-40 mobs with 40+ mobs
and this:
In this terms, i would make it so that everyone started with max gear blah blah blah. You can purchase buffs in town. Now this would make it even and skill would win pvp.
So...if you were NCSoft and were going to make a server..what would you do with it?
i wouldnt do just one server. id do a bunch of servers, each with full support of a common language. german server, spanish server, greek server. of course anyone would be able to play any server but the character sets might be different than you are used to, and "special" characters would be allowed in names. and the GM staff for each server would be required to be able to speak the language of the server they were administering, and they would collectively be responsible for advertising (and maintaining a website) their server in the official language of the server. and everyone would be paid in alcohol.
...and then id add another server, an inter-server (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=579985) server, where all the L2 players from different servers can interact via mass slaughter. all items on the inter-server would be undropable, untradeable, etc.
At no time would a casual player feel as if they were able to compete, which would be the whole purpose for a casual player to migrate over to a relaxed server this late in the life of this game.
Ah, that's funny... cuz I am a casual player and that setup would make me feel as if I was able to compete. I would certainly feel much more able to compete than I am now.
Ah well whats funny is...... im a casual player too and that set up wouldnt coax me from leaving my current server. I don't why you think you would be able to compete, you might be able to when your fighting over gremlins after that the same old math comes into play. He who plays the most pwns the most.
Maybe come up with our own idea, or quote mine next time. But hey thanks for the support of my idea.
lol As I said relaxed server is the most common idea, that most every one could agree on wanting.
I didn't copy any idea. That is how it's done in Korea. We've also had this discussion many times over the past 3+ years. And we have discussed the relaxed/consensual server to death.
However, in the light of any contest issues, you may claim any prizes associated with it as I don't have any interest in that. Just the discussion. :p
Ah well whats funny is...... im a casual player too and that set up wouldnt coax me from leaving my current server. I don't why you think you would be able to compete, you might be able to when your fighting over gremlins after that the same old math comes into play. He who plays the most pwns the most.
OK, let me explain something for you in very layman terms so that you'll understand it. Everything that has been posted on this topic is OPINION. Opinions can't be wrong. You seem to think otherwise. My point in responding to your post that way was that you are not unilaterally correct to the point that everyone is going to agree with you. My initial post was what I thought would make a good casual server (fully aware that not everyone agrees), you responded as if your opinion were a FACT. It is not.
Furthermore, please, please explain to me where you are getting your numbers from.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately predict how much % a player is going to get a month based only on how much time they play per day. In order to do such a thing, you would have to know several factors, which you CANNOT know or even estimate for an entire group of players. Knowing how much xp it takes to increase to each level and how much xp each mob at each level gives is not enough (although, that alone would be a task to calculate for 80 levels.) You then have to factor in other things, which are impossible to generalize for every 'casual player'. This includes classes - certain classes are going to xp a lot faster than others. This includes whether a player parties or solos, whether they dualbox or spam pots. You cannot possibly say that it will take X amount of time for player A to reach level 52 only based on what I'm guessing is your recollection of how long it took YOU to reach that level, times 10.
Not to mention the fact that you are COMPLETELY forgetting that play time does not necessarily equal hardcore/casual. There are many "hardcore" players who are simply limited on the amount of time they can play, but when they play, they have a certain playstyle and they get things done. On the other hand, there are many "casual" players who have plenty of time to play, but hardly xp at all. A player who played all 5 hours may level slower than a player who plays only 2. So if for this fact alone, your little assumptions about how long it would take players to level are flawed.
Just in case you've somehow missed my point, let me repeat it:
YOUR OPINION IS NOT FACT.
I'll even rephrase my earlier response for your learning comprehension:
At no time would a casual player feel as if they were able to compete, which would be the whole purpose for a casual player to migrate over to a relaxed server this late in the life of this game.
I am a casual player, I disagree with that statement. Therefore, it is completely false to say "at no time would a casual player feel as if they were able to compete."
I only posted "5 hours a day" because a previous poster had suggested "6 hours a day" (I noticed you did not say anything to him...) which I thought (thought=opinion) was a little too much. As some other posters have since suggested a monthly number of hours, which I had not thought of before, but I believe that would be a better way for casual players to utilize their paid time.
I skimmed over most of the topics but what Sovrath said really stuck out.
I 100% agree, I have sugessted some of these things and of course they were flamed. I have agreed to others suggeting these things and most others flamed.
The problem with the attitude "If you don't like it go play WoW" is, well, people are doing just that. Our legitimate community is shrinking while our non-legit community is increasing, or at least it seems that way.
Here's another thing...my friends that have seen Lineage and that I have talked to, won't go near this game. I wasn't suprised to find out that they ended up playing WoW...there's some food for thought.
The set up of WoW is really quite well done. Whether or not you like the game itself, you have to agree that it has some good elements to it. Eg: you can see your average xp/hr, you can see your approx time to next lvl, you actually get an ex bonus if you have not been logged in for a while!! OMG, blizzard devs are genius's...either that or they just listened to their players base...
I skimmed over most of the topics but what Sovrath said really stuck out.
I 100% agree, I have sugessted some of these things and of course they were flamed. I have agreed to others suggeting these things and most others flamed.
The problem with the attitude "If you don't like it go play WoW" is, well, people are doing just that. Our legitimate community is shrinking while our non-legit community is increasing, or at least it seems that way.
Here's another thing...my friends that have seen Lineage and that I have talked to, won't go near this game. I wasn't suprised to find out that they ended up playing WoW...there's some food for thought.
The set up of WoW is really quite well done. Whether or not you like the game itself, you have to agree that it has some good elements to it. Eg: you can see your average xp/hr, you can see your approx time to next lvl, you actually get an ex bonus if you have not been logged in for a while!! OMG, blizzard devs are genius's...either that or they just listened to their players base...
I advise you ask your friends why they didnt like L2, and go beyond the surface level. If you do this you will quickly find out consentual PvP or lack of therof has little to do with, TBH I cant remember last time I got PKed while leveling an academy alt so while this may have been a problem back in C1/C2 people dont just go to starting villages to grief noobs any more.
The leveling courve isnt that terrible now, you get noob buffs, free SS noob tokens to go to different towns, free potions, etc; I know many of us would have killed to have even half of these back in prelude :P
The point Im trying to make, and this was not to flame sovrath at all, was that the reasons L2 is losing people to WoW is lack of content and gameplay.
The hardcore PvPers like the end game RvR content, the fact you are rewarded for PvP, the casuals like questing, crafting or the million other little things you can do in WoW.
The differences in gameplay and content arent going to go away because your reduce the grind and throw a pointless time limit on the ammount people can play. Stop trying to make L2 into WoW or sell L2 to WoW players, it appeals to a different market and it should stay that way. Improve the games strengths, fix the key customer support areas that need to be fixed, do some realistic research on what people want which I could give a few ideas on how it could be done besides just asking the forums.
Who is trying to sell WoW to anyone? I do ask my friends, and I know why most of them quit. I have had many discussions with people who were thinking about quitting and did quit and those who ended up not quitting. No one is trying to make this game WoW...there is nothing wrong with pointing out some of the good aspects of another game and hope for implementation here. The best research comes from talking to people...or didn't you know that? This is what I have noticed from talking to people. Not on the forums, in game, out of game, people who play other games, people who play lineage etc...
There are several reasons people quit, why not try to eliminate some of those reasons? Or do you like the shrinking community? Maybe you like to play with more bots than real players...I dunno, personally, I'm for whatever would bring more people.
I skimmed over most of the topics but what Sovrath said really stuck out.
I 100% agree, I have sugessted some of these things and of course they were flamed. I have agreed to others suggeting these things and most others flamed.
The problem with the attitude "If you don't like it go play WoW" is, well, people are doing just that. Our legitimate community is shrinking while our non-legit community is increasing, or at least it seems that way.
Here's another thing...my friends that have seen Lineage and that I have talked to, won't go near this game. I wasn't suprised to find out that they ended up playing WoW...there's some food for thought.
The set up of WoW is really quite well done. Whether or not you like the game itself, you have to agree that it has some good elements to it. Eg: you can see your average xp/hr, you can see your approx time to next lvl, you actually get an ex bonus if you have not been logged in for a while!! OMG, blizzard devs are genius's...either that or they just listened to their players base...
I advise you ask your friends why they didnt like L2, and go beyond the surface level. If you do this you will quickly find out consentual PvP or lack of therof has little to do with, TBH I cant remember last time I got PKed while leveling an academy alt so while this may have been a problem back in C1/C2 people dont just go to starting villages to grief noobs any more.
The leveling courve isnt that terrible now, you get noob buffs, free SS noob tokens to go to different towns, free potions, etc; I know many of us would have killed to have even half of these back in prelude :P
The point Im trying to make, and this was not to flame sovrath at all, was that the reasons L2 is losing people to WoW is lack of content and gameplay.
The hardcore PvPers like the end game RvR content, the fact you are rewarded for PvP, the casuals like questing, crafting or the million other little things you can do in WoW.
The differences in gameplay and content arent going to go away because your reduce the grind and throw a pointless time limit on the ammount people can play. Stop trying to make L2 into WoW or sell L2 to WoW players, it appeals to a different market and it should stay that way. Improve the games strengths, fix the key customer support areas that need to be fixed, do some realistic research on what people want which I could give a few ideas on how it could be done besides just asking the forums.
Well, you are right in that you can't make L2 into WoW. Heck, even Spam knows this so I bet it's something that they have heard or discussed amongst themselves.
My friends didn't like the idea of:
grinding
getting ganked and losing xp/possible item (granted this has changed slightly)
the crafting system
the economy
yes... lack of quests
A long time ago I made a post on the game being boring and nothing really to do other than grind or go find pvp. I can see that NC has made some steps to alleviate that in adding things like "fishing".
the new fortresses will hopefully be a nice addition.
However, what we all need to realize is that there are different types of people out there who want different things. Sure, noob gettng ganked is at an all time low especially because of this "blessing".
But there are people out there who want a more focused gameplay experience. They want to log in and do what they want to do at any given time.
Sometimes they want to grind, do quests, craft, or pvp. But they want to do it on their terms.
Of course, the obvious thing is "well go to another game that allows them to do that". And that makes sense.
However, if you are talking "alternate rules" you will see many people who want this more controlled experience.
Not everyone wants to have war declared on them or be a target while they are soloing. Not everyone "gets off" on the adrenaline rush of pvp.
So if L2 is to stay the same without any alternate rules server then yes, it has to be made with more pvp in mind. Possibly get rid of the blessing above lvl 20, no bsoe, possible drop on death etc.
However, if one is to be added (as many people were screaming for at the start of the game) then a consensual pvp system would be desired by many people.
And again, I think you are 100% correct. L2 can't be made into WoW, doing so would wreck the game significantly and alienate the die hard fan base, there is lack of things to do.
*also, as a point of note, I had shown my friends the game back in C2 so the game was a bit more "hard core". Still any type of grinding seemed stupid to them and getting attacked at any time was not what they were interested in.
Slightly increased rates (2 x XP, 2 x SP, 3 x Adena, 4 x Spoils)
10 - 15 hours / week max play time, limit total time online to 50-60 hours
PVP as it is
No "prime time" drop rate adjustements (Events, drops etc)
(EULA enforced harder and faster, 1 account / user allowed to log in at a time = no buff boxes, these are tricky though)
About the insta 80 PVP servers, they might be fun for a while but I personally would get bored after a while as there's nothing else to do than gank Gank GANK.
Here's an event idea I'd like to test out someday, although not likely to get ever.
Have one server set up as Prelude and give players one week to play on it. Record highest level toons / class, most adena, best gear etc.
Roll C1 to the server, reset toons to lvl 1 and 0 adena and repeat
Roll C2, C3 etc until current
Summarize the winners of each Chronicle to get overall winners.
Of course this type of event would require a great deal from the GM's in monitoring and banning/flaging botters.
There is currently no quality free for all pvp game on the market. The Karma system in L2 essentially limits FFA by its very nature. Take me back to old school UO days, at least a little, please.
1) Remove Karma System
2) Increase Loot Drop Tables by 10x
3) Increase rate of XP gain by 4x
4) Random Loot & Adena drop at death
5) Random XP loss at death
6) Limit Character Creation per account to 1 Character
The last item above is extremely important on a FFA server, as it makes ones reputation among the player base, mean something. With no throw away slots, characters will have to continue to reroll if they want to avoid being held accountable for their actions, always remaining low level. In this manner it is the players who decide ones "Karma", not a coded system.
Personally I hate when I lose XP because I had a lag spike!
Change the rules to:
-If you are killed by a mob, you don't lose exp.
-If you are a dwarf and wanna spoil mobs that are under your level, you can buy potions like the fishing potions.
-If you are RED and die, you lose XP.
-If you die in PVP, you lose XP.
-If you die during a siege (in or out siege zone), you don't lose XP (without using scrolls).
Another rule:
-If you are RED and die, you don't lose XP but you have to buy the scrolls to cure the die penalties (always).
-If you die in PVP, you don't lose XP but you have to buy the scrolls to cure the die penalties (random).
I consider myself a casual player. I play the game for around 15 months and my main is still below 70. (my top alt is 40). Honestly, although I would like to go to end game, I don't think I have the heart to grind all the way to 3rd proffession change. It scares me. Maybe I will fool myself by rerolling or simply quit. As it is, I have no intrest on spending money on a second account (to level faster) or any kind of illegal activity (botting/RMT). What might have made a difference for me? I would have to say a higher rates server. Maybe 2-3x, not more. And I would like the quests to be really better. Most of them are very long and hardly make any sense in rewards. I wouldn't change any other aspect of the game (PvP, PK rules). I love L2 for what it is. The fact that I am a casual player doesn't mean that I don't like PvP or I am scared of PK's. I am just not willing to put more time or money than I already do, in order to compete others that do so.
PS. I wouldn't have any problem if such a server had time limit on a weekly basis as other people suggested (I don't play a lot anyway). But that time should count when a PC is in exp zones. Siege grounds, cities, boats, olympiad, etc. should be left out of timer.
PS. I wouldn't have any problem if such a server had time limit on a weekly basis as other people suggested (I don't play a lot anyway). But that time should count when a PC is in exp zones. Siege grounds, cities, boats, olympiad, etc. should be left out of timer.
I can so see powerlevelling services operating in Goddard, with the people getting powerlevelled just kinda sitting there 24/7 inside the town. :)
grinding
getting ganked and losing xp/possible item (granted this has changed slightly)
the crafting system
the economy
yes... lack of quests...
From my experience remove the whole getting ganked part and add horrid customer service and evident presence of unmentionables and the rest stands from people I have asked that question.
One thing I dont really see about this "focused PvP" vision you have is how it would work with many of the core L2 mechanics.
L2 is by nature an aggressive, competitive game where might makes right, the competition at clan level is not only done through wars but through elements like controlling raid boss spawns or the best XP spots via PvP, if you remove this element from the game you pretty much remove anything but consentual clan warfare and castle sieges.
In the end game this would in my opinion leave players with very little to do as there would be 0 conflict. I personally love the L2 PvP system as it is, I like that I can take a XP spot from someone "because I can" and I also like that I will have to watch my back while XPing because they may show up better prepared/in better numbers.
L2 as a pure PvE game with some consentual PvP would simply lack content in the end game that other MMOs have to keep max level people entertained, without the conflict L2 has nothing left to offer :/
I also dont see how many of the proposed changed for the carebear L2 version would address many of your friends concerns:
Grinding: would be slightly lessened at the lower levels by the increase on XP rates, however the core mechanic of having to farm the same spot for hours to obtain some % will remain there, and trust me at high levels it will still feel grindy even if its as high as 10x.
Lack of quests and more important lack of good quest rewards is likely to blame for the game feeling grindy to a majority of people.
Getting ganked: yes this would be nullified, however I never heard of anyone losing gear to getting ganked o.O unless they were unlucky enough to get last hit by a mob which is rare.
Crafting: remains largely the same, sure, base mats will be more largely available if spoil rates are set as 10x, however 10x wont likely do much to help the drought on many very rare recipes that are what most often bottleneck the crafting market in the live servers. The L2 crafting system needs to be completely re written to be any fun or at the very least completely rethink the drop/spoil tables and how recipes are obtained.
Economy: From experience in PTS and pure logic I can tell you, the economy on a higher rate server would intially be worse than that on live as players will gain XP faster than adena at symetrical rates initially, this wont be balanced until your 6x levels when the XP courve would finally slow down enough for adena earning to become a reality. A great majority of people will struggle to get appropiate gear for their levels even more so on a higher rate server than they do in retail, the levels 20-60 will be particularly frustrating for those not used to surviving in such environments, experienced L2 players would find a way, but I think it would be too much for newcomers.
Bottomline of the economy is that is mostly player driven after C grade, and unless they do something to address the beforementioned crafting issues the economy would remain unfriendly.
Lack of quests: Is here to stay. Making quests is quite complicated, the best we could hope from a "NA dev team" could be customize the quest rewards, and I still think thats a little more than NC is willing to do. My experience with higher rates on PTS is also that quest tokens number or drop rate are not scaled up with server rates, so the quest would even be more unrewarding under a higher rate server.
We could discuss what L2 needs from a design point of view forever, but most of that has nothing to do with alternate rules servers, alternate rules usually is limited to very small changes such as server rates/PvP rules/etc. This is why I believe alternate rules should focus on pleasing the crowd that already likes L2 for what it is but has minor, easly manageable issues with the game and maybe win back some of those people who play private servers. We can win that crowd back with alternate rules servers, we can bring back those who liked L2 but got spooked by the 76+ grind; the ones that dont like the game for the reasons you listed? those are a lost cause for this game without major game design changes im afraid. L2 can be made very appealing to the PvPers, not the carebear crowd.
Lack of quests and more important lack of good quest rewards is likely to blame for the game feeling grindy to a majority of people.
Actually, check out the gameplay. Compare it to, say, Guildwars or Lunia, and you'll realise: Even if you farm the same area a hundred times in either of those games, you're not going 'target mob' 'attack' 'have a sip of tea' 'target mob' 'attack'... (or worse yet, 'assist' 'assist' 'assist').
Lineage 2 has flat gameplay and is built to be played in masses. In the chaos of giant raids or mass PvP everything more than two or three buttons to push would be too much - and that's what it's built for. Some more pick-up friendly mass PvE might bring more people tot he table, and maybe get them hooked on the game long enough.
On a whole, I think the game has some core issues to fix before looking at alternate rules, namely:
- Buff/exp system
- PvP pace
- Class balance
- Spoil tables
24/7 TEAM based PVP olympiad style which at the end of the month ended with REP points etc, that would be fun as hell and even if u cant find pvp like on kain u hardly can, u could do this
One thing I dont really see about this "focused PvP" vision you have is how it would work with many of the core L2 mechanics.
L2 is by nature an aggressive, competitive game where might makes right, the competition at clan level is not only done through wars but through elements like controlling raid boss spawns or the best XP spots via PvP, if you remove this element from the game you pretty much remove anything but consensual clan warfare and castle sieges.
In the end game this would in my opinion leave players with very little to do as there would be 0 conflict. I personally love the L2 PvP system as it is, I like that I can take a XP spot from someone "because I can" and I also like that I will have to watch my back while XPing because they may show up better prepared/in better numbers.
Yes, but remember there are people who "don't" like watching their back and who would be more than happy to have everything consensual. They would pretty much be playing for pve game (I know many people who play the pve game solely and who really like it) or for the castle sieges and consensual clan wars (there would have to be some sort of reward for that to actually make them desire to clan war)
As we are talking "alternate rules" we are talking of a different take on the L2 game. Of course, you wouldn't be playing on it because it doesn't offer the random excitement of the L2 game. But we are talking about people (many early players who are not around anymore most likely) that demanded such a server.
L2 as a pure PvE game with some consentual PvP would simply lack content in the end game that other MMOs have to keep max level people entertained, without the conflict L2 has nothing left to offer :
You would have fortresses, castel sieges, Arena. Granted one would hope they would buff up the actual quests but you can't really count on that.
I also dont see how many of the proposed changed for the carebear L2 version would address many of your friends concerns:
It would only deal with the being attacked when one did not want to be attacked. Remember, there are people who just don't like this type of play. However, you are right, it would not take care of the other issues.
Getting back to the ganking, I have to say that I'm not thrilled about it but more to my feelings, I don't like ganking people. The few times I saw an enemy we were at war with leveling (and not knowing I was there) I essentially had to roll my eyes and proceed to take him out. Wasn't fun for me at all. I know people like this but to me it's a waste of time.
Please keep in mind I "get" why people like the clan war thing (the way it is). I was in a clan that loved pvp and I have to say that it was some of the best play time I've ever had in this game. The problem for me was that at times I just wanted to mellow and lvl a bit, I would realize that the group we took out yesterday would be looking for us. Since I wasn't in the mood for that type of play at that day, I just didn't log in.
Then again I have never hid the fact that I'm only here for sieges and am not interested in any other part of the game. But that's just me.
As far as your other points they are more than valid. However, we do know that such a consensual pvp server already exists in Korea. Whether it has a lot of people or not, I don't know.
I sort of think of a consensual pvp server as being more like guild wars. You work on your character and then when you want, you engage in the pvp. I also happen to really like Guild Wars and the pvp setup so that is another reason why it intrigues me.
And as I said before (or as Matsumoto said) if you make two servers, one with some of the barriers to pvp taken away and one consensual you will draw in two different types of crowds.
...somewhere far away on a Lineage2 server in which you cant flag or go red...
playerA: i challenge you to a duel for this spot!
playerB: no thanks im XPing
playerA(in herochat): my xp spot you leave now.
playerA(in herochat): my xp spot you leave now.
playerA(in herochat): my xp spot you leave now.
playerA(in herochat): my xp spot you leave now.
playerB: okay i will duel you for it.
*PlayerA wins duel*
playerA: okay you leave now.
playerB: whatever, get lost.
*playerA proceeds to train playerA with mobs, and puts playerB on KOS list for training later*
*PlayerB makes a complaint to GM, "playerA is being mean, omg make him stop, i pay 15$ for this game if you dont ban him i quit."
*PlayerA also makes a complaint to GM, "playerB is being mean, omg make him stop, i pay 15$ for this game if you dont ban him i quit."
there are 243589345 petitions pending.
...this pretty much sums up everything i hate about the idea of an MMO that doesnt allow you to go red. although PvPvE is pretty cool, its only one of the options we have now. i prefer my options to be distributed in bulk.
If they added additional servers with different types of gameplay and limitations with a brief description of what you're signing on for in the Server selection list then I don't see why anyone would have a problem. If you don't like the alternate servers..simply don't move to them or create a toon on them.
I personally don't enjoy PvP either, I simply don't want to kill anyone, except bots...I always want to kill bots, but that's just me. My clan has people who think like me, and I know several others in game who have the same feelings.
There is another game I won't mention that has different tupes of servers (PvP and non-PvP) that I won't mention, and there are millions of people who play it, because they can get what they want out of it. If they don't want to pvp they don't have to, if they like the excitement, well, they have a server or like 50 for that...
At the very least, create a consentual PvP server, those who don't like it don't have to play, but I bet a lot of people would play on that server. It would probably bring people to the game who have quit.
EULA enforced harder and faster, 1 account / user allowed to log in at a time = no buff boxes, these are tricky though
this idea gets my vote. id reroll to any official server that only allowed one account per player. in a heartbeat.
edit: heres one way to do it. each player registers their ip address via the PlayNC website. for dynamic addresses this might have to be done every couple of days, but its done playerside and only takes about 5 minutes, as opposed to GMside. if they get two people that register for the game using the same ip, they investigate. investigation, in this case, consists of making sure that each person at that ip has a different credit card. if one credit card is being used to pay for more than one account (same ip or no), ban the credit card (that card cannot be used to purchase a new account). obviously, you can use a time card, but if you have the same ip as some other player that has a timecard or a credit card, you will be banned.
if i want to pay NC 2x more than anyone else so i can play the game leisurely maybe 4 hrs per week, let me. i pose no advantage over anyone as i can STILL only control one toon at a time.
you wont get past 53. if that.
try making an SE main on any official server already.
does EE count? serriously though, i have a friend in L2 which had been in the same clans as me since we were level 5. he only had one account and played SE to 77. he NEVER had a problem finding a party in any of the clans we were in. he quit because of some bug he had with his pet hatchling that caused him to lose the hatchling's gear. of course the gear for a pet is pretty cheap and he had no problems replacing it but it was the LACK OF SUPPORT that he recieved, when he tried petitioning for the first time. at least from what he tells me, they didnt respond, at all. they didnt tell him how it was possible that it happened or what he could do to prevent it happening again. ive personally never had a problem with support in L2 but a ++support staff might just make a good "alternative rules" server.
The problem with trying to enforce 1 account per person is that many people have others in their household who play L2, whether spouse, child or roommate. Long ago Mystrl (I think) already answered this question by saying that it would be too difficult to differentiate between one person with two accounts and two or more people living in the same household.
...hence the different credit cards. even in situations where people are married, having two different credit cards clears up any dispute over the account, in the case of a joint account. and if you want people who are under 18 to play, maybe you could set up a "kiddie account" or something, with play hours that can be limited by the "parent" account. but both use the same credit card and ip. obviously special attention would have to be given to make sure a "child" account is not really an automated farmer. but the users would have already identified themselves. you could even, omg, easily Count the number of "child" accounts and keep track of it.
This is true...both me and my bf play, but we have only one computer, so we have to take turns.
theres nothing wrong with this, it doesnt violate any of the rules i suggested. there is still only one credit card playing from one account at any given time. in the case of a roommate, you could still have 2 seperate aco***** (2 credit cards) and the same ip, and it still doesnt violate the rules i suggested.
Same credit card for both :) I think it's too late to implement the one account idea anyway. I actually have three, I like PP buffs and I hate waiting to find them (very little live PP's). So if they were going to implement it, then I'd expect a refund for that third account. I'm sure most others who have the same would like one too.
well, this is an idea that would only apply to one server. so you could be fairly sure, in logging in, that each player had only one account on this server, it would give some players peace of mind to think they are on a equal playing field. but it wouldnt have an effect on any other servers.
there are a lot of greeks on devianne that only play with one toon (not a main and 6 alts) and only one account. they do it because its the "hardcore" thing to do, and assuming they dont get involved in RMT, these players have my utmost respect. but its completely different for one player to play that way by choice, and for every player to be required to do so. personally, i like having alts.
Actually I'd rather see a weekly limit, say 20 hours per week. Definitley a relaxed server, easier leveling, less grind, more roleplay. Perhaps there would be NPC clans on this server that one could join? Would definitely work in a more relaxed setting.
Actually I'd rather see a weekly limit, say 20 hours per week. Definitley a relaxed server, easier leveling, less grind, more roleplay. Perhaps there would be NPC clans on this server that one could join? Would definitely work in a more relaxed setting.
Relaxed or not will not significantly change the amount of RP in the game. People who want to RP will do so, regardless of the hours of play they're allowed or any server rule-set. Those who do not, won't.
...somewhere far away on a Lineage2 server in which you cant flag or go red...
Increcibly accurate, funny and true post, loved it, that describes exactly how I felt in every game where PvP was consentual.
Maline also brings some interesting points about the nature of combat in L2, I have heard those same points from friends that prefer WoW, though I never felt that way myself about L2. I think there are classes that are highly strightforwards in L2, particularly in PvE where things are often relaxed, others are more complex to play particularly at the top levels.
Two servers would be ideal Sovrath, the more the better, though I would be very interested to see which attracts the bigger numbers, PvP L2 or carebear L2.
...hence the different credit cards. even in situations where people are married, having two different credit cards clears up any dispute over the account, in the case of a joint account.
That doesn't change the fact that it would still be difficult to tell whether it was one person or two. I have 3 credit cards myself and I know there are other people who have more than I do. Plus, you have the matter of college students who may have a credit/check card in for their parents' address and one for their school address. And running name checks doesn't work because you can't say "Oh, we already have a John Smith who has an account - you can't play!" to someone.
Also, what about the couples that would like to pay for their L2 accounts on a single shared credit card?
If this were a country like Korea or the Philippines, they could have us put in our SSN as verification, but I don't think most players would appreciate that. Plus, we cover more than just the US, we basically cover the whole non-Asian world (NA, SA, EU, AUS).
IMO, there are just too many "what ifs" to make it feasible.
The problem with trying to enforce 1 account per person is that many people have others in their household who play L2, whether spouse, child or roommate. Long ago Mystrl (I think) already answered this question by saying that it would be too difficult to differentiate between one person with two accounts and two or more people living in the same household.
The oposite is also true, many people would have family in their household that do not play L2, thus are able to use their CC info to use more than 1 account.
There are also several ways to bypass any form of "1 IP per account" restrictions.
...somewhere far away on a Lineage2 server in which you cant flag or go red...
Increcibly accurate, funny and true post, loved it, that describes exactly how I felt in every game where PvP was consentual.
Maline also brings some interesting points about the nature of combat in L2, I have heard those same points from friends that prefer WoW, though I never felt that way myself about L2. I think there are classes that are highly strightforwards in L2, particularly in PvE where things are often relaxed, others are more complex to play particularly at the top levels.
Two servers would be ideal Sovrath, the more the better, though I would be very interested to see which attracts the bigger numbers, PvP L2 or carebear L2.
Actually, Maline's posts are very spot on. Quite frankly, I never thought about that until she mentioned them. Good job Maline.
As far as the servers go, whatever will help the community or just make it grow, would be the best. However that manifests.
Believe me, I think a server that promoted pvp as opposed to "well, I 'could' go red but if I do then I have to do 'this'" would be great.
I think that that is why PTS is so full when it comes to the new chronicles. I highly doubt people are looking for bugs (well, some are). It's a chance to check out the new content but also a chance to really go all out.
Ok i didn't really bother reading what everyone else said.
But here is what i would like to see:
I'm just mentioning rates here. Game play wize i want it like the others.
4x XP, 5x SP, 5x adena, 2x Spoil, 2x manor (not reward), 4x drop, 2x goods, 4x quest items, 2x quest reward.
This is a forula the formula that i've found most successive so far. (with increased rates that is).
And i would love to see a server like that. No other restrictions. same as the others, just different rates.
The problem with trying to enforce 1 account per person is that many people have others in their household who play L2, whether spouse, child or roommate. Long ago Mystrl (I think) already answered this question by saying that it would be too difficult to differentiate between one person with two accounts and two or more people living in the same household.
The oposite is also true, many people would have family in their household that do not play L2, thus are able to use their CC info to use more than 1 account.
There are also several ways to bypass any form of "1 IP per account" restrictions.
i have actually thought about this, and it is a loophole in the system. person A and B live at the same address and both have credit cards. person B doesnt play L2 and person A has two credit cards under their name. the chances of 2 "John Smiths" living at the same residence, is pretty low. and if they falsify credit card information or are using someone else's idenity, thats an issue for powers higher than GMs, like the bank or the law enforcement agencies of the country they are in. so while it might be a loophole, its not a loophole that requires a lot of GM effort, at that point its out of their hands. this means the GM staff has more time to do, GM stuff. and the players, to some extent, can police their own servers. if 90% of the server consists of live healers, live dwarves, live archers and daggers and nukers, o my! then the other 10% might find it a bit more complicated to do things they are used to doing on other servers.
PlayerA: boofs plx ^^
PlayerB: omg you killed my healer! *flags*
PlayerA: *++PvP* your healer was on autofollow :p
There are also several ways to bypass any form of "1 IP per account" restrictions.
true but it helps to block all traffic from IPs that did not already go through the out-of-game IP registration process, as i mentioned earlier.
It wouldnt be Identity theft if the person in your household consents to lending you the credit card to pay for an extra account.
Keep in mind the GMs can harly police their server from bots, the ammount of extra staff needed to deal with "sneaky 2 boxers" just wouldnt make things cost effective, not to mention the millions of plausible excuses one could come out for why a second client was on autofollow on them.
i understand what you are saying and you are absolutely right. its not completely foolproof. maybe some person who is smarter than me can think of some better way to do it. but, on the flipside! if you managed to convince three people in your family to allow you to use thier credit card information, thats three more people that have heard of lineage2 ^^
marketing ++
This has probably been mentioned already, but I'm putting in my vote for an alternate server that is more geared towards casual players. PvP only in certain areas, and equipment easier to get. Perhaps also increased XP/SP/drop rates.
FYI, my motivation for posting this is talking to somebody in my alliance. It got me to thinking, there is probably a good size population that would appreciate this kind of server. However, I suspect for it to work, NC would have to find a way to keep bots from the server.
This has probably been mentioned already, but I'm putting in my vote for an alternate server that is more geared towards casual players. PvP only in certain areas, and equipment easier to get. Perhaps also increased XP/SP/drop rates.
Seconded. I know several friends who would play the game for its visual/concept style were it not for the fact that they're working professionals who don't have 12 hours a day to put into it. Limiting PvP would also prevent griefers from picking the server just to gank casuals.
Equipment being easier to get would be very nice, but it would probably be tricky to balance that with the value of dwarven characters.
Notice I didn't say how the euipment would be easier to get. Just easier to get. There are several ways to do this, including just making everything spoilable, making all mobs spoil, increasing spoil rates, making key mats and recs spoil at maybe 10 - 15 levels lower than they do now, etc.
Non-dwarf possibilities include just making everything purchasable at NPC stores, and upping the adena drop rates like 2 - 3 times higher than whatever rates the XP is multiplied by.
Howver, solutions like the last one would pretty much nerf dwarfs. Personally, I would prefer something like the first approach, but this needs input from a lot of players, not just a few of us.
I would add, just making shots or crystals purchasable from NPC stores would probably be a really good idea for a casual-player server.
Well, the end result would have to be somewhere between giving dwarven characters a huge advantage and making them obsolete - you'd want dwarves to have value (since their economic advantage is supposed to make up for their lack of combat ability) but not so that in order to play a non-dwarf you need to also level a dwarf alt.
Plain market competition would probably take care of some of that, assuming that the market is evenly spread so that there aren't huge spikes at certain thresholds. I'm in favor of a one-time server transfer to this theoretical casual server; obviously transferring off it would be ridiculous, but to get an initial spread of different leveled characters/available gear etc, possibly limiting how much adena/items you can transfer with the character to prevent immediate inflation.
Having shots/crystals be buyable from NPCs might be a little hard for dwarves, since consumables are in constant demand and at a fairly constant price; however, if the math works out that it is cheaper to buy shots compared to NPC prices while still allowing dwarves to make a reasonable profit, that might work to let the server grow even if there aren't enough crafters initially.
Well, the end result would have to be somewhere between giving dwarven characters a huge advantage and making them obsolete - you'd want dwarves to have value (since their economic advantage is supposed to make up for their lack of combat ability) but not so that in order to play a non-dwarf you need to also level a dwarf alt.
Yes, I didn't think about that particular aspect of the balance. And that is exactly the situation we ended up with for buffers and healers, so we don't want that to be repeated.
So...if you were NCSoft and were going to make a server..what would you do with it?
IE: PvE only
Enforced Roleplay
Increased experience table
Throw out your ideas here!!!
Also the L2 Vault will be holding a contest around this theme and a poll with a few of our options on it. Here's what to expect to be announced in the next few days!!
"If you could make any server at all..what server would *you* make?"
If you could walk in the developer's shoes and had the power to make a viable server what would you implement for rules? No pvp? Enforced roleplay names? We want to hear your creative ideas!
This contest (once finalized) will run for TWO weeks and more information will be coming. The winner will receive official Lineage 2 Merchandise including:
I'd like to see a server, that is set up to reduce a gap between players, that comes from differences in time spent in game.
Either be it by limiting online time or by implementing such a cool idea that I've seen in LOTRO:
For every hour spent offline, until reaching certain limit, you gain bonus to exp. For instance: You log off for a couple of hours, so you fill your "bonus bar" and after you log in, you get few hours of double XP. When you spend more hours in game, and deplete all bonus gained for beeing offline, you get lower XP - and that's it :P .
I'd like to see a server, that is set up to reduce a gap between players, that comes from differences in time spent in game.
Either be it by limiting online time or by implementing such a cool idea that I've seen in LOTRO:
For every hour spent offline, until reaching certain limit, you gain bonus to exp. For instance: You log off for a couple of hours, so you fill your "bonus bar" and after you log in, you get few hours of double XP. When you spend more hours in game, and deplete all bonus gained for beeing offline, you get lower XP - and that's it :P .
Hehehe, yes I love this in LOTRO xD
If its implemented in L2 is a great help for the casual player,
10+ for this idea!
horrible idea. it would be the end of L2 if they copy LoTR's game play.
it's like how GW's has instance on all PvE, but you have to do quest. and you die in that quest you get a horrible pen that screws your chr for the rest of the time your out there. much less trying to find someone willing to help you get through the quest.
While L2 needs more Quest for lvls 20-60. I don't think a We need a relaxed server, we just need a few less servers, and higher XP rates accross the boards.
Hosestly, and I've discoursed this with a member of TD (top ally on bartz). Every one that post on official is more focused on PvE, and those that post on blah are more focused on PvP.
If seridove posted this on Blah there would be alot more people that say they want a PvP server! the dinamic is different on different things.
Agents what I'm saying. I've read a post on "tech news world" that was saying that alot more women are getting into playing online casual games. their aim was saying it's more of the 30-40 range females. ones that just want to go online relax and have fun.
something like a casual server is fine, would really aim right at that market. But this being a niche game, applying a server to what this game is ballenced for would set alot of things off. As my friend from TD said, they want to move off Bartz so they could test them selfs versus other top clans.
So end up losing players, or get more players. What do you want? Me personally I want more players!
So, what you say Matsumoto is that the bigger difference between players level and gear leads to better pvp experience?
No. I'm saying that people need to stop asking for more and more PvE crap and start playing L2 for what it's designed for...PvP. Every class (supposedly) is balanced for PvP.
All A/g, S/g is designed for PvP, why else is there more dmg in pvp when you have a sA on your weapons? non of the other grades do that.
The problem is that NCsoft refuses to change what needs to be changed. And thats the XP/SP, drop, and spoil rates. You can't tell me it benefits the players to go 30+ lvls and never get a full drop. Much less have to ebay or scam people in order to afford their next grade of gear, it's ludicrous!
Every body here on official wants another **** server dedicated to more PvE, relaxed server so casual players can play like hardcore players. So every one is on the same playing field. I mean come on. Wake up, no one is going to be on the same playing field as someone else, every one is different. I might be good at the market while you suck at it, vice versa, if I have more money then you getting gear will be alot easier, and I'll lvl faster. If Ncsoft boosted XP rates then people that play casually could catch up.
If people had acc's set up as a casual acc instead of just an acc then they could get a bonus XP rate while they play less, but pay same fee as every one else.
I'm just saying there is more to L2 then just trying to apse the 15% that wants casual play, versus the 70% that wants hardcore pvp. Look at PTS for the last 3 Chronicles; see how many people complain about the hardcore pvp, while they are trying to test....It's cause PTS is the only time when 1 server can meet another server and duke it out!!
Ballence comes in many forms...not just PvE, but also with PvP, the market, and class ballence.
So, what you say Matsumoto is that the bigger difference between players level and gear leads to better pvp experience?
No. I'm saying that people need to stop asking for more and more PvE crap and start playing L2 for what it's designed for...PvP. Every class (supposedly) is balanced for PvP.
All A/g, S/g is designed for PvP, why else is there more dmg in pvp when you have a sA on your weapons? non of the other grades do that.
The problem is that NCsoft refuses to change what needs to be changed. And thats the XP/SP, drop, and spoil rates. You can't tell me it benefits the players to go 30+ lvls and never get a full drop. Much less have to ebay or scam people in order to afford their next grade of gear, it's ludicrous!
Every body here on official wants another **** server dedicated to more PvE, relaxed server so casual players can play like hardcore players. So every one is on the same playing field. I mean come on. Wake up, no one is going to be on the same playing field as someone else, every one is different. I might be good at the market while you suck at it, vice versa, if I have more money then you getting gear will be alot easier, and I'll lvl faster. If Ncsoft boosted XP rates then people that play casually could catch up.
If people had acc's set up as a casual acc instead of just an acc then they could get a bonus XP rate while they play less, but pay same fee as every one else.
I'm just saying there is more to L2 then just trying to apse the 15% that wants casual play, versus the 70% that wants hardcore pvp. Look at PTS for the last 3 Chronicles; see how many people complain about the hardcore pvp, while they are trying to test....It's cause PTS is the only time when 1 server can meet another server and duke it out!!
Ballence comes in many forms...not just PvE, but also with PvP, the market, and class ballence.
not at all true. ppl want relaxed servers to get AWAY from pvp.
also, if the game WASNT designed for pve, plz tell us, oh great and wise matsumoto, how to gain levels by pvp? clearly levels matter. clearly so does gear. CLEARLY PVE MATTERS.
relaxed servers give the 9-5 blue collared worker something to compete in. as it is, 20 hrs a month playing gets you exactly nowhere, fast. clearly to relax this grind for the casual player would mean a difference in how enjoyable the game is for these people.
dont kid yourself, with each server as it is now being barren for the most part and dying for new players a player merge onto server X would mean fun but ONLY for the high levels.
you see, the high levels dont have to work so hard to recoup a war loss, pve death, or OE gear failure. just because your weapon gives +++dmg in pvp does not make it 100% pvp use only. otherwise attacking a mob would yield "invalid Target".
this is why most pplz turn to OTHER games for pvp experience. games like GW where you can start at max level for pvp including all the skills you unlocked on your pve characters.
because levels count means everyone under the S grade threshold is nonfactors. rightly so. clearly S gear is the Ubarest, and the 3rd class skills are the best, right?
this game is 99% pve. the odd time you might get pk'd, might get warred, and generally dont perticipate in the oly which many consider a waste of time anyway.
also, if the game WASNT designed for pve, plz tell us, oh great and wise matsumoto, how to gain levels by pvp? clearly levels matter. clearly so does gear. CLEARLY PVE MATTERS.
The grind is so redundant that it doesn't even matter. Same thing over and over again: target mob, atk, dies, target next mob, repeat...it's not even hard, just takes time.
PvE only matters to get to top lvls to compete in PvP. It's not even worth mentioning it. cause there is no reason to, PvE isn't hard!! Sitting at the PC is harder then grinding.
The point is: I'd rather see a server dedicated to pure PvP, then to pure PvE. It would draw more people to this game, and would circumvent that crap that GW's has for it's PvP.
Open your mind Sud and stop being a troll for once!
so youd rather pvp other lvl 1's with your own lvl1 and possibly your lvl1 buffslave?
pure pvp in the strictest sense of the word means converting L2 to some sort of warrock/rakion pvp-to-lvl game. if levels matter (and they do) why are you telling me pve doesnt matter?
clearly we agree that it takes too log to get S for a casual grinder.
clearly you state you would far rather pvp than pve.
but please, for your own sake, stop contradicting yourself by saying things like pve is not worth mentioning. the investment of 5hrs in pve means the difference between keeping your level when you fudged a pve, or died to a wartag +1 level higher than you.
you only call me a troll because i have more posts. stop being ignorant of the content.
if youve found time to grind out your losses, good for you. a lot of casual players cannot take more than 2 war deaths per day even if they did somehow manage to make it to legit 8x.
and despite what youre going to say, yes players CAN make mistakes. its part of the human factor of everyday life. just because youre 80 doesnt mean youre the master of anything. in fact much the opposite. losses at that level are extreme, so mistakes matter. i know many people that would far rather play the stress-free way and play at a level where recouping losses does not mean pveing for a month. before the next pvp attempt (i.e. bsoe, brez)
you would rather a server for pure pvp? then there was no such thing as exp loss on death, and everyone started at lvl 80, with all skills, and top gear? makes no sense. just as the PTS was anarchy, this dream server would as well.
Well ive read a part of all responses and ive been playing for nearly a year now, i made boxed buffers or slave buffers cus i dont wanna depend from geting a party to be able to lvl at the speed i chose to. Personally i give as many parties as i can to ppl without buffers so i dont see how this is an incovinience for any1, on the contrary, but i am aware a lot of ppl dont even buff others. I do know ppl that are a buffer and are already on their subclass or 2nd subclass.
Yes the grinding is hard, no i dont know how it was b4 i started playing. But for the lil time i have been playing grinding at lower lvls has become easier, great improvements on that area, not being able to get pked by 10 lvl diff at least u have some fighting chance.
pve pvp wise i dont run away but enjoy my peace when xping, i didnt exactly chose a fast lvling class, i wont bsoe but u wont take me down easily. I have geting pked, a lot at lower lvls, about a dozen times b4 lvl 20. Sometimes at higher lvl, ppl will always be ppl this game is good for releasing frustration or feeling better than u r, ppl in general do that.
I do not agree classes r lvled (equivalent) for pvp when ur playing a tank and can be one shoted by a magic crit, how many tanks can one shot any other class? how many dwarfs can? how many bd's can? range with range, close mele with close melee probably more, but how many times is that the case?
Well bots is one thing i would change in servers in general, not so hard to see whos botting tbh.
Mandatory manor working for all castles or u lose the castle to npc control which puts up manor automatically.
More seeds for more mats at more lvl ranges.
Improve spoiling rate, prolly, my bh would like it.
Dont have recs concentrated in one area (beast farm).
Allow some a and s blades to be droped by other means that RB's (or lvl 80 mobs :s)
Ganing xp and sp by killing other players would need to implement a certain lvl diff to allow this, s graders can kill all grades all day long to reach 80, lot easier than pve and u dont die unless ganked.
More mats quests, for all types of mats, not necesarily new quests. Not necesarily huge amounts of mats.
Well thats it for today, gota get back to work.
They should allow server wars (I thought they were doing that anyway) for all those hardcore PvPers who want to see how good they really are.
From what I've heard Blah is not censored...maybe that is why the "hardcore pvpers" post there...the "hardcore pvpers" that I know are also Hardcore trash talkers.
If you don't like an alternate server for people who want to play casual, then don't play on it. All of the other servers are the same thing across the board (with exception to the time zone based olympiad) on two servers for the Europeans.
All of the existing servers are dedicated to PvP. The problem is most of it happens at higher lvls.
To the existing servers, to make PvP actual PvP and not who can pop the pots faster...they should remove CP pots, CP Elixir, Quick Heal pots. Then PvP will be about how well you play your toon.
I hate to say it but the bonus xp is actually a really good idea. More people than you think play this game for PvE enjoyment...I had a clan full of them, with other ally clans full of them and other neutral clans that we knew and partied with. A lot of those people have quit too, not because they get ganked, but because they can't see any high lvl in their future...even if they get there they don't see how they're supposed to afford their A gear anyway.
I get the game was designed to be hard. Thanks to bots, the tireless grind and the horrible condition of the economy, we are losing more players than anything else. People are signing up for lineage, ebaying their adena and using third party help to get to these top lvls at a resonable pace.
How many people do you know would sign up for lineage if you told them it takes years to obtain top lvl and gear? At the very least, get people to play lineage with a "casual server".
I do agree that they should make a few alternate servers though...one casual, and one hardcore pvp. Start out at lvl 80 with top gear, the whole purpose would be to log in and PvP. ALL PVP ALL THE TIME. BUt have some type of stipulation where in order to access the PvP server you essentially have to "unlock" it by lvling at least one char to 61. Or something like that. Or instead, have the alternate pvp server allow temp player moves. So when you want to hardcore PvP you can just "move" to that server for a duration of time and PvP against real toons from other servers. Add some whacked rules though
*no xp loss on alternate pvp server
*boss jewels don't transfer
*no karma, no red, no drops
*castles, fortresses owned by NPC's and make the NPC's EPIC bosses that must be defeated in order to take the castle/fortress
*no adena drops or item drops of any kind off any mobs OR any drops not transferable ( could be auto placed in PvP server WH )
*have dusk and dawn armies, to determine "sides"
*dusk cannot kill dusk, dawn cnnot kill dawn
No. I'm saying that people need to stop asking for more and more PvE crap and start playing L2 for what it's designed for...PvP. Every class (supposedly) is balanced for PvP.
Don't mistake the Olympiad for PvP. The current RPS system that states "all classes are balanced" was designed and implemented with the Olympiad in mind. The Olypiad, of course, having a "special" (in every sense of the word) ruleset that has no bearing on PvP in any other venue.
A "relaxed" server, or higher reward/faster levelling whatever you want to call it type server has a secondary benefit of fostering more PVP.
The simplest fix to this would be to remove death penalty and XP loss to PvP deaths, on the Live servers. With nothing to risk, no time wasted and nothing but your consumables to lose, there's no real reason not to PvP.
The simplest fix to this would be to remove death penalty and XP loss to PvP deaths, on the Live servers. With nothing to risk, no time wasted and nothing but your consumables to lose, there's no real reason not to PvP.
The simplest fix to this would be to remove death penalty and XP loss to PvP deaths, on the Live servers. With nothing to risk, no time wasted and nothing but your consumables to lose, there's no real reason not to PvP.
/Agree.
But then you will get people who feel that there is no purpose to pvp if there is no tangible loss to their opponent.
If there is going to be a server that fosters "more" pvp it has to offer something significantly different but not something that makes all other servers empty.
One concern is that if you have a server that fosters more pvp but does so in a way where it matters less if you die (low xp penalty/no xp penalty), and it is easier to obtain resources (increased drops/adena drop, increased xp) then you then run the risk of completely emptying the other servers.
Therefore something else would have to change.
Either there is a play time limit, or a level cap (maybe that is why they mentioned a cap at 40?) but something where there is significant difference between both server types.
Otherwise who would want to go to the regular servers when they can just log into the altnate server and bypass any of the leveling, resource issues that the regular servers have.
The simplest fix to this would be to remove death penalty and XP loss to PvP deaths, on the Live servers. With nothing to risk, no time wasted and nothing but your consumables to lose, there's no real reason not to PvP.
/Agree.
But then you will get people who feel that there is no purpose to pvp if there is no tangible loss to their opponent.
yeah man this is kind of what I was getting at. if you remove Death XP lose then whats the point of pvping? no reward, only reward we have now is hurting our enemy's XP.
There is always a up and down to everything in L2.
I wasn't mentioning ballence in the sense of Olympiad (did I even once mention olym?).
And I was talking live server passively.
To have a alternitive server(s) to not hurt live servers then NCsoft needed to lesion to the players for once. There is no reason for them to spend more money on newer servers just merge the two lowest pop. server with one other one, and use those two merged servers as Casual and PvP.
So a casual and PvP based Server wont hurt live servers: Live servers receive a boost. XP/SP and adena are bumped to 3X the current rate: starting at lvl 61. Spoil, and drop rates are bumped to 6X: over all lvls (to try and fix the economy's).
Casual Server
Which has a limited time of play would allow players to play on more even playing ground (agree?).
Would have 10X normal rates (improved rates due to live rates change). And limited weekly rates, monthly rates, with boost to XP if your time = less of average server play time.
IE: average server play time = 10 hours 1 week, 9 the next, and 10 the following. while your play time that week was 2, 5, 10, your play time is less then the average so the next week your XP gets a healthy boost so you catch up.
The problem with that is some how they need to keep track of peoples play times and monitor how would get a boost cause of lack of play times.
PvP Server
Now as of a PvP server, it would appeal to alot of people that just want to test a class, could be a chance for GM to interact with the players, or for some people that just want to have a high lvl toon for the sake of testing them selfs versus other players.
PvP server could offer rules such as:
no XP loss on death, or double XP loss.
no death pen (should just remove it from the game).
no PvE environment: so you can run around playing capture the flag all day VS enemys.
GM's interact with players.
high lvl toons pitted against other high lvl toons.
Other idea's, my brain is fried atm....
I mostly agree with what Tedward and Spudnick are saying. The game is supposed to be a PvP game. But, in reality, there are players who find much to like about the game aside from PvP. That said, I see no reason to not have some servers that allow for more PvP action, and that allow battles between clans from different servers. I just would like to see something for the casual player. The only thing I don't like for the casual server is a time limit, unless it's pretty high (I dunno, maybe 20 hrs/week?).
i would be pvping more if i could compete. currently my main is 55 and i started on Lionna (having played Devianne since OB) in January 07. i simply havent had the time to play. a server with 4x exp rates would be beneficial to me, as i WANT to pvp, but find myself incapable at the present.
that said, a server with 4x exp rates would benefit someone that plays 12 hrs a day far more than I. so i suggest the limit that levelling be capped at 4 lvls per week. that would help me by restricting those of greater time allowances than i, and would keep them in the same level range as myself. i can pvp like that.
Well, a 4 level cap would be ridiculous for, say, a level 1 - 20 toon, and a limit of no consequence for, say, 70+. So the basic idea is OK, but it needs some fine-tuning.
i dunno, oldfart. still takes me over a month to 1-20.
Well, let's say that they did cap the lvls at 40. Slightly higher xp rates and drops than the main servers.
This way it doesn't take the same amount of time to get to 40 (for some it will take longer than others going from 1-40) and it allows for one to make up xp loss at a reasonable rate.
However, you just don't experience higher lvl content such as epic raids or B Grade and Above.
In the end, if it is just about the pvp, then it really doesn't matter if you are wearing A grade or no grade. As long as there is a point to the pvp that players can get behind.
Higher lvl castles would have altered levels for guards as well as the mobs around them.
Personally, I wouldn't want a level cap of 40. But a cap on either hours played or level gained per week, if it is reasonable, is not a bad idea.
For a cap on levels per week, maybe something like:
Level Level increase per week
1 - 10 10
11 - 20 5
21 - 40 4
41 - 50 3
50 - 60 2
55 - 70 1
70+ A max of say 20 hours per week, instead of a level increase cap.
Lots of ideas here guys..so don't forget to enter the contest!!
Lineage II Server Contest!!
The contest will run for TWO Weeks. The contest will be starting on Monday, September 3, 2007 (Noon PST) and closed on Monday, September 17, 2007 (Noon PST). Contest winners will be announced on Friday, September 24, 2007 on the Lineage 2 Vault.
(quickreply)
one thing that occurs to me, if people want to play on a server with increased drop rates, why not use the PTS server durring non-PTS times? all they need to do is make a database backup of the characters there, before the PTS, and restore the backup after the new update comes out, then patch it for the new chronicle just like the other servers.
increased rates is not the only thing people want from a new server. as it is, the increased rates are only during the times when a new update is being tested.
increased rates is not the only thing people want from a new server. as it is, the increased rates are only during the times when a new update is being tested.
The increased rates stay regardless of if anything new is tested.
..example it is currently increased rates on the PTS right now.
But then you will get people who feel that there is no purpose to pvp if there is no tangible loss to their opponent.
yeah man this is kind of what I was getting at. if you remove Death XP lose then whats the point of pvping? no reward, only reward we have now is hurting our enemy's XP.
...and this mindset is what has brought L2 to the state that it is, in both the prevalence of the gank party, the predominance of the I Win/FOTM classes and the BSOE, not to mention the hemmorhage of players to elsewhere.
And why not?
If the attitude is that, rather than simply accepting the victory, you'd rather make it personal, then why not simply BSOE out of danger when faced with the prospect of PvP?
Especially for non-PvP-oriented classes, personally I'd rather BSOE than give you the juvenile satisfaction.
XP loss is exactly why I DON'T pvp. Call it what you want, but I don't like the idea of either paying 1mil for a bres or spend hours getting my xp back....but that's just me. The game would be more fun for more people if there was no xp loss. The satisfaction that you won the PvP battle should be more than enough O.o...this is why I say remove xp loss, cp pots (or increase reuse time significantly), cp elixers, quickheal pots, bsoes, and bres's. Then PvP will be PvP again, winner determined not by who has the deepest pockets...
XP loss is exactly why I DON'T pvp. Call it what you want, but I don't like the idea of either paying 1mil for a bres or spend hours getting my xp back....but that's just me. The game would be more fun for more people if there was no xp loss. The satisfaction that you won the PvP battle should be more than enough O.o...this is why I say remove xp loss, cp pots (or increase reuse time significantly), cp elixers, quickheal pots, bsoes, and bres's. Then PvP will be PvP again, winner determined not by who has the deepest pockets...
the juvenile satisfaction.
I don't think it's juvenile. The point of war is to harm your enemy, and force them to submit.
But Sense C4/5 L2 has gotten increasingly Carebear. What I mean by that is: You have clan luck; that lowers XP lose, Bsoe's, B rez, 100% rez skill, 90+ % rez, 80%+ rez, at 76+ you lose less XP on death with increased lvls it's lessened more, Scrolls that stop XP lose in raids (on death), and in sieges.
You have CP which wasn't in game dooring C2 and below, thous making you 1 shot to most DD classes! When they added CP it was a god send, made PvP last alot longer. Then they changed the cool down so PvP would last even longer.
I don't see how losing XP at lvl 30 which takes like 4 minutes to get back is a bad thing. lvl 55 takes about 10 minutes to get back lost XP. Hell at 61 it don't take but maybe 20 minutes to get back 4% loss.
it is when you get to 70+ that XP loss starts to hurt you. But if your clan is in a 2 way war, then getting 1% loss which apon going to hall = .50%, how can you complain.
It's the death pens that really hurt players, it don't hurt bots, they don't care about death like we do.
The point of XP loss is a mind trick. If you know you have nothing to lose if you die, then you wont put out your best effort. But if you know that if you die you lose XP, then you have a incentive to put forth your best effort. Losing clan points was a nice additive to help bolster PvP, but it's not enough.
24/7 Fortress sieges is a nice Bolster, give benefits that let you use a dungeon if you win the fortress is a nice bonus, knowing you can get a circlet that you can sell for money = incentive to siege fortresses. Castles are getting that incentive as well.
Now if you don't have time to log in and play for 1 hour then I could understand losing XP sucks. But when you lose XP when you die, don't you feel that urge to out there and get it back quicker?
Another Euro timezone friendly server, and allow transfer to it this time please.
Higher grade XP/SP/drops server with limited hunting time let's say 30 hours a week.
Fun PVP hangout Arena type server server - you create let's say 78+ toon with all skills, choose some equip from Cat and out you go for rampage. No buffs beside buffers and maybe herbs, no BSOEs, free teleport to and from any hunting ground and town, something like that. Even ground could be limited to "old Aden" land only to raise chance of meeting someone.
I don't PvP my lvl 76 MM, 1% takes long enough to get back let alone 4%...xp loss just causes stress when I get flagged, because the first thing I think is oh god, here we go. If there was no xp loss say for lvl 70+, I'd be happy, and I'd PvP. Until then, I will enjoy my neutral clan and stay out of all the other drama.
People who play WoW don't lose xp and they still do their best to win PvP...so to say you need to lose xp in order to do your best is really not true...
Also, people would have no reason to de-tag from clan to lvl if there was no xp loss. Doesn't anyone see how rediculous that is? You have to leave your clan just to get some experience...