Will this game ever improve, or just worsen?

I'm starting to wonder if it is worth me spending my time getting higher level and farming adena/gear to improve in high end pvp.....

The pvp system has gone from a little imbalanced but bareable, to totally imbalanced and boring. To pvp you need 3 things, gear, charecter, pots. PvP is either ludicrisly drawn out, watching how many potions you have or really short getting 1/2 shot by overpowered archers/daggers. The hero system is about polotics and how many noblesse a clan has rather than fighting, and the epic jewels are totally imbalanced and are always easier for the already powerful to obtain than for the weaker players/clans.

More players leave the game by the day and exp groups are few and far between... will the NA market ever be appreciated or will we just get fobbed off with more imba patches for high level players, rich clans and people who can afford to spam QHP/CP pots constantly?

nope. and you made an overlord. ncsoft hates you :P (and me)

Ehm.. well... I'd like to say that it will get better but.... having learned what I have about how Korea develops the game, I can't, in all honesty, tell you that we will ever see balance in L2.

I think, perhaps, the biggest problem we face is that the game is built for the Korean playerbase. Not their playstyle, which really isn't that different from ours when it comes down to it, but simply their population. I don't think that the NA market has the people necessary, even if we combined every server, to really work with the tools we've been given.

I've noticed this being a problem in many imported games, tbh.

Well what you could do, is get to 76 and join one of the higher end clans...then you too will have the means for the pot spamming and boss jewels

As much as any of us can't stand some of the arrogance that bleeds from the members, they are good clans to be in. They will always help you with whatever you need, they work together for just about everything and you always have protection or people to help you in PvP. So maybe instead of staying in the clan you are in and hating the game, join one that will benefit you.

I missed alot of C5 due to school, before I left pvp was fun and servers were reasonably populated...

I come back and servers are barren, PvP is about how many QHP/CP pots you have and what epics/buffbots you have... before all you needed was lvl 56 prophet/SE buffs and 20 CP pots and you were set.

There was no problem with the length of PvP and although necromancers were overpowered hey were still killable and getting as powerful as other players was an acheivable goal.

All the updates have seen more power going to the power clans, boosts to the strong and rich and the gap between high level, low level and wealth growing immensley.

Castles go to clans with best epics/gear/levels, epics go to clans with best gear/epics/levels, levelling spots go to clans with best gear/epics/levels, heroes go to clans with best gear/epics/levels.... to get on an equal level with these without epics and heroes is an impossible feat unless you outnumber them 4/1 and have the same level 78/79 buffers.

Play the game that's out now. If you're not enjoying it, it's not gonna get any better.

From what I've seen in other games, the player base erodes away until all that's left are those top power-gamers. I see no evidence that lin2 is any different. The way it works, with its free expansions and absence from store shelves, I think the community is ever shrinking.

Well what you could do, is get to 76 and join one of the higher end clans...then you too will have the means for the pot spamming and boss jewels

As much as any of us can't stand some of the arrogance that bleeds from the members, they are good clans to be in. They will always help you with whatever you need, they work together for just about everything and you always have protection or people to help you in PvP. So maybe instead of staying in the clan you are in and hating the game, join one that will benefit you.

Read my sig, I am 76 on my second subclass alone, 79 on my main class. I have decent gear also (+6 DC robe set, drac bow, arcana robes, arc mace etc.)

I enjoy fighting a reasonably balanced fight though. I know how overpowering these QHP/CP pots are and have 2 overpowered subclasses in a clan that gets epics and so on.

PvP on my Saggittarius is a case of standing spamming pots and shooting, same with necromancer. PvP on my dominator is non-existent anymore and I can't play the role of CP healer as pots are far better. It's boring as hell.

They(NCSoft) had a chance in C1. It seemed like a lot more people were playing, the economy was okay, and Adena purchasing/pay for powerleveling wasn't as rampant. The easiest way I can frame this is to simply state that the game is where it is now under NCSoft's stewardship:

They call the shots.
They make doctrine.
They have the power.

If the game were to ever improve they would be the ones doing it and they have had years to make it happen. If you like the trajectory of L2 then you can at least expect more of the same. If you don't? You can expect more of the same.

I'm having a blast, but then again when I came back to L2 I did so knowing what I was getting into and how much time I was willing to spend leveling/grinding.

To pvp you need 3 things, gear, FOTM class, bots.

fixed. i think they are changing epic jewels in CT1 to be not so disgustingly overpowered, but olympiad will still be farmed, fortresses will be impossible to ninja from anyone using third-party software, and rich people are pretty much assumed to get richer regardless of what the developers do. there WAS a problem with PvP duration in C3, it was way to short. but superspammable CP pots and quiver of your mom were really stupid. they are at least addressing the right issues in the upcomming patch, but they always overdo it, and as Wardancer suggested, we will ever have the population to use fortresses as intended by the developers.

the game is actually more balanced then it was in earlier chronicles.

Daggers 2 shotting tanks? No one remembers that? ya kkthxbye

Perhaps.... though daggers still stand one heck of a chance against a tank, and tanks can stand against... umm... healers? Wait, no... unless the healer is OOM at the beginning of the fight.

the game is actually more balanced then it was in earlier chronicles.

Daggers 2 shotting tanks? No one remembers that? ya kkthxbye

how has that changed?
a dagger can now 2 hit someone with 20k hp and 6k pdef
you mean they do it less often now right?

The tank will be 2 shot if he's not facing the dagger. Moral of the story: FACE THE DAGGER! :)

Well there's your problem. You picked two of the most powerful PVP classes to play, and you're wondering why PVP is so boring? You might as well 3rd sub SH, walk around with POW and Siren in newbie areas and complain why no one is fighting back. ;)


The main premise in Interlude, from what I can tell, is: "If I can 1 shot an enemy, I can be 1 shot." Glads and Tyrants with skill crits, Destroyers with frenzy, Nukers with siren/pow, archers with queen/sws/bd/boss jewels, daggers (ugh)...they can all basically 1 shot anyone if they're lucky (some more than others...). Summoners with TP, tanks, bd/sws ... we don't really get 1 shot if we're doing things right, so we can't either. (Healers are really the only one left in the dust here...sorry healers :( ) It's a crazy balancing mechanism, but it works in games like DOTA to amusing effect. :)

Another issue is that PVP bufs today aren't what they used to be. You *have* to have the support of not just prophet buffers, but high level dominators (you?), sword singers, bds, AND queen cat/seraphim to make the pvp last longer. A proper PVP buf setup will involve half or more resist / defensive bufs. The few offensive bufs you need are crit damage and crit power for fighters, crit chance and reuse for nukers...nothing really else except your standard pp bufs. Everything else should be filled in with resists.

With the support of good tanks, you don't need CP spammage, cause you won't be getting hit. With the support of a smartly played dominator, your side won't need to spam cp pots either. Big alliances on my server tend to field on average 4 CP healers per fight...that's 2.4k CP healed to every member in the alliance, every few seconds. If you think that your OL's cp heal isn't useful, maybe it's your clan that's not making it useful. They need to stick together and not run off like *******es.

CT1 will be making PVP much longer, too, if things are to be believed. Tanks are supposed to get massive extra abilities to defend their party, making a tanks now part of any stacked pvp group. We've been told that a high level tank will be able to double or triple the life expectancy of the party he's in. With that amount of extra defense, only dumb siege and pvp parties won't have tanks with them. Of course, that doesn't even mention the fact that requiring another support class to a stacked party will mean each stacked party will be doing less damage overall, spreading out the possible power groups...or the stacked party will (incorrectly, imo) sacrifice one of the other support for the tank instead of a DD, thus weakening the party.

Yeah there's some stupid skills (anyone here fought a TH with mirage yet? God I hope it gets nerfed...) but It's moving in a good direction. They really haven't added any *new* damage skills in the last few chronicles, mostly defensive improvements. This next chronicle is going to address that deficit, some. I just hope it's enough to tide people over until they implement cross-server wars.

The tank will be 2 shot if he's not facing the dagger. Moral of the story: FACE THE DAGGER!

And pray one of their nifty skills that turns your back to them doesn't land...

Summoners with TP, tanks, bd/sws ... we don't really get 1 shot if we're doing things right, so we can't either.

Summoners and tanks, perhaps not. BD/SwS? Maybe not 1 shot, but 2 can do it... and we certainly don't 1 or 2 shot anyone else, unless you mean my own hatchling.

I wish I was as hopeful about CT1 as you are. Yes, they are adding some new mechanics to tanks and such, but the DD classes are getting boosted as well, and since there is already a major disparity between offensive and defensive power, a 0.005% boost to offense is still 100x better than a 20% increase to defense.

just hope it's enough to tide people over until they implement cross-server wars.

Why should it? So we can watch your FOTM fight our FOTM? Um, whee?

just hope it's enough to tide people over until they implement cross-server wars.

Why should it? So we can watch your FOTM fight our FOTM? Um, whee?



Jesus you're negative, and you miss the point. Right now, many people are getting bored because the best of the best on their server has no competition. The changes to the tanks will make it alot harder for anyone to be killed in PVP, which should keep people around a bit longer. After cross-server wars start, the pool of PVP targets ... GOOD pvp targets will rise ten fold ... literally. THAT will keep many people in the game and at the same time keep high level people on your server busy.

Jesus you're negative, and you miss the point.

Actually, I think Jesus was a pretty swell guy, seemed pretty positive about stuff, up until the point of being nailed to a tree, but, hey, that would be a big bummer to anyone, deity incarnate or otherwise. The world He left us, on the other hand, makes me rather negative, yes.

Right now, many people are getting bored because the best of the best on their server has no competition.

Which would be because the Best of the Best did their ****edest to make sure they *had* no competition on their servers. Reap what ye have sown.

The changes to the tanks will make it alot harder for anyone to be killed in PVP, which should keep people around a bit longer.

If by this you mean the shared-damage thing that tanks are going to have... it's a non-issue. Or, put another way, smoke and mirrors, if it works the way it's been described to me.

Let's say you have a tank that is, somehow, absorbing 50% of the damage the rest of his party is taking. Let's say you have a tank with a combines CP/HP of 10k. You have a healer with 4k, a buffer with 4k, 3 DDs with 5k and 3 supporters with 7k (numbers just for illustrative purposes).

The enemy (class make-up irrelevant) attacks our sample party here, focusing 3 shots on 2 of the DDs and the healer. Hits are 800, 2500, 1000 (DD1), 600, 600, 5000 (DD2), 5000, 1250, 5000 (Healer)... I am lead to believe that the damage split does not take effect if the target is 1-shot anyway, but let's say they fix that and it takes effect immediately, so the Healer doesn't die on the first, critical hit.

DD1 takes 4300 damage total, splitting half to the tank, so 2150.
DD2 takes 6200 damage total, splitting half to the tank, so 3100.
Healer takes 11,250, splitting half to the tank, so 5,625.

The Tank, then, takes a total of 10,875 damage.

In the first, opening volley, the healer and the Tank are killed, even though no one has actually targeted the tank with anything.... he simply died because of shared damage.

This has slowed PvP down somehow? We've still got a dead healer, a dead tank, 2 nearly-dead DDs, and some support and buffers who are still probably not at range to do anything to Team B yet.

Its all very sad when you think about it. if they want to give tanks a transfer pain skill they need to boost def from dmg, hp, cp, and make their healing/draining abilities better other than that the tanks weakness is his team and the teams weakness is going without a tank so you shoot down the team the tank is dead the team badly hurt and weak.